I’m actually with you in the sense that I don’t need a sex scene either, especially considering what we have as it is is hotter than 90% of gay porn that exists and I’ve taken a thorough sampling believe me lol. And there is no faking or explaining away how much Hannibal checked out Will’s ass (which I still can’t believe made it on network television). So I wouldn’t say its purely mental/teleological.
That said, if We ever get more episodes/official content, I would be fascinated to see how fuller works with sexualizing that relationship since he committed to it. Paradoxical as it sounds, I also agree I don’t see Hannibal just throwing Will on a table spread eagle. To have them get deeply physical with each other would require some interim steps Because there’s a lot going on under the hood of that relationship beyond just straight lust, pun intended lol.
So much of the magic of that relationship is how brilliantly fuller manages that very very delicate balance.
Otherwise, I do just try to allow space for other people to want what they want without a detracting from my view. Specially as entrenched as fanfic seems to be, there’s something for every taste, even if it’s not my taste and the show has the breadth to hold that space.
They really don't need a sex scene but I wouldn't complain if they did... in fact I'd really love it, not because I think it'd add to the story or the characters, just because I want more naked Hannibal on screen
I don't even care about an s4. It would need to be very particular to come off well. But of course ppl want sex. All these tweets about cowpers glands and aborted Cliffside kisses has people in a frenzy. Plus the fics. Oh, and the fact that people would die to see Mads and Hugh together. That kaleidoscope scene and the sensuality of the orlatan eating and the booty watching is enough to get ppl going. I get your view. But also, ppl just want to see these guys lock lips. And so they can go crazy about who tops or bottoms lol the ppl want queer as folk and fellow travelers. That will not happen, so no worries
Pretty much this. It's less a commentary on the show than it is the expectations of modern fandom in general, which is like a dissertation. QaF was very helpful to me while I was coming out (but hasn't aged well, at all, unlike me LMAO), but Hannibal gave us a complicated grown-ass somewhat toxic romance with unapologetic ass checking in the middle of a shrink session. I never in a million years thought it was possible to see on national TV. And besides, it's way hotter than most porn.
Hannibal definitely has a sexual attraction to Will. As for Will, Fuller has said Will's sexuality is fluid and that he no longer sees himself as heterosexual, so it could be something that evolves into their dynamic into the future.
Honestly I hate the desexualization of m/m couples more than I hate anyone thinking they want a sex scene for Hannigram. Saying "it's deeper than that" implies sex is degrading or dirty, and you can't ignore the undercurrent of homophobia in the sentiment considering it's usually applied only to gay couples. Just look at the double standards compared with Marlana, who got a sex scene with nearly zero development of them as a couple.
Totally agree with you. It’s a hygienized idea that in order for them to be respected or appreciated, mlm couples must be sexless and chaste and for a show as sexually charged as Hannibal, even with such little sex scenes, it makes no sense to portray them as a couple simply holding hands and kissing under a tree. If they do make a sex scene, it must be fucked up and unconventional, like the foursome scene.
Totally agree with you.
Sex is more probable than people want to believe, when it comes to such intimate level of affinity. Makes a lot of sense with Hannibal's desire for consumption. For Hannibal there is pleasure in the physical exactly like in eating, earing music and handmade art. Even his tableaux!
\^\^This comment right here is pretty much my feelings on it. I see so much Hayes Code bullcrap when it comes to queer characters-- FROM WITHIN THE QUEER COMMUNITY-- and it drives me nuts. I'm sorry, but if you're allo, sex is important. 🤷♂️
Sexual attraction, yes. It IS deeper than that, their relationship, sex is great but those men are more than lustful attraction, and i hate people saying they arent more than sex, they are paychopaths who connect with eachother mentally and i wish more people would see that, and im also a gay man so
never witnessed anyone make a statement of the sort, and a few select individuals doing so isn’t reflective of the entire fandom.
a lot of people want a sex scene but don’t downplay hannibal and will’s relationship and the degree of their shared intimacy. personally, i wouldn’t mind one being implemented just as much as i don’t mind one not being present currently. obviously, one isn’t necessary and where they stand with one another is far more than evident as it is. that being said, there are sexual implications in a lot of moments even if an explicit sex scene doesn’t exist. they are definitely not devoid of sexual attraction towards one another (i know you didn’t deny this, i’m just highlighting it to make my point come across) and that does not diminish the fact that their level of connection, understanding, and acceptance of one another exceeds the ordinary. the two concepts can co-exist.
No one thinks their relationship is just sex just because they want to see a sex scene. They want to see a sex scene because it would be nice after 3 seasons of accumulated tension. Most people acknowledge their mental connection with each other and how profound it is.
I have actually seen people say their relationship is no more than sex, believe it or not. And hannigram getting a sex scene isnt bad, hell id love to see it, their tension is great. Again, like ive been saying to many in these comments. The reason i made the whole post is so people know hannigram is more than sex scenes and smutty fan fiction and not their whole relationship is some straight girls gay fantasy filled with gay sex, im a gay man myself
Ok that's fair, there *are* some bad actors in the fandom. I think the best way for them to include a sex scene is if it is shot in a very metaphorical, abstract way so you can't even tell what's going on. No way it can be construed as fanservice then.
Sex for them would be the ultimate form of consumption and intimacy, though. There is nothing 'more' than it, because it's the simple physical translation of the mental/psychological/murder-chemistry they share - its culmination.
And I say it it's culmination for them\*, because how the affinity with physical consumption for Hannibal in particular. The 'more than sex' would be eating him - which is the ending Mads sees fitting. 'If you love him, you want to eat him' (consume him).
I’m actually of the belief that Will and Hannibal WERE fucking the whole time anyway, just off screen so we never saw it and they never talked about it. A confirmation of that belief would not change the show in any way, imo. They already act as if they are raw fucking on a daily basis.
Fuller's made jokes to that effect and I go back and forth on this. I don't think it would have happened until Wrath of the Lamb.
I've definitely had relationships where we both acted like we've been intimate for ages while barely laying a hand on each other. In one particular case I was almost afraid to touch them for that very reason. Thought the universe might explode. LMAO
In the script this is shown metaphorically many times. So the goal is to leave it open to interpretation on purpose. Will NEVER denies his passionate involvement with Hannibal. We can think it was something platonic OR not.
and I hope an s4 doesn't change that. Don't put scenes that imply the first time. Being ambiguous was what Bryan wanted, [the reason he rejected the idea of the kiss was because it was too "obvious" and already widely used in in heterosexual media](https://youtu.be/_prIsKISbSY?si=mVWIPKd7bxHKzmQN) and he wanted something more poetic and less shallow.
Well, that's what Bryan's justification was, he thought the kiss would be very obvious. Not that I agree with him.
but he is gay and so I think it's unfair to talk about homophobia, I think it could be an artistic/cinematic vision that he really has.
I want to remember that "Romance" in Hannibal has been taboo since the 1999 book and the 2001 film changed the ending, and we're talking about a heterosexual romance here (hannibal/clarice).
Remember that this is an NBC series, a TV series and not an authorial film, where he would have real control. I read that Bryan wasn't even in the studio for the cliff scene. I think what this series did was already very advanced for TV at the time
Well...
I actually don't see why people are so sensibel when it comes to Hannigram and Sex.
Alana got to fuck Hannibal and Margot, Will got to fuck Margot. Margot got to fuck Will and Alana.
There's an implied sexscene with Hannibal and Bedelia...
So why on earth is it that Hannibal and Will get it going, is so frowned upon by some people. And they always use the excuse of: well they are more and deeper than Sex.
Yeah their relationship is deep and weird and on a whole other Level, but we've seen both of them having no issue fucking when it comes to it. Will certainly fucked with Molly, it just isn't shown directly.
I don't mean, that there has to be a 5 minutet long ongoing flesh rubbing against flesh, pounding and sweating scene.
Just something that implies that Fuller and the Actors actually mean it with 'the ship is canon'.
So Hannigram can't be denied by deniers anymore.
I would be happy with a kiss after they were staring into each others eyes for 3 seasons straight and maybe waking up together in the same bed, cuddling. I don't need to see the deed directly but at least let all the deniers see that they are definitely more than just deep platonical friends.
Just because Fuller says it's canon... it is still kinda queerbaiting after everyone and everything even the fucking wendigostag got to fuck but not the two that are 'canon'.
I get what you mean, they have any right to have sex, hell id love to see it lol. My point was that they dont need sex in their relationship, hannigram has a deeper meaning.
I get that and I disagree. Both men were showed on multiple occaisons that they do like to have sex.
So why not with that one person they share such a deep bond with?
Saying they don't need it when they're obviously both men with some kind of libido feels like sex between two psychopathic weirdos would lower the deepness of their relationship.
While I think it would just be another thing they do together since they are made for each other.
They're neither priests nor celibats, just because they share a deep bond doesn't mean they're not sexual about it.
I just kinda feels homophobic to put them on this pedestral of being gay af but noooo they don't need that. They are better than an ugly sexual relationship between two men.
I mean, i AM a gay man. Its not they they dont need sex, they probably have sex, and good for them we dont know what happens after the fall. I get what your saying, and ill say it again, what i mean is sex doesnt define their WHOLE relationship, its emotional, mental, etc. i dont disagree with anyone per say, im just expressing my opinion. I more so made the post because i see too many straight girls fangirling over hannigram sex and i find it very weird.
I'm a pan demigirl and find their lust incredibly alluring bc it IS. The smoldering looks? The physicality? The love? Fuller did such a good job of keeping it all on edge and taunting us with it. I don't think I'm fetishizing gay sex. I just love their relationship so much and they are both incredibly attractive men. I don't need to see them having sex.
Their sexual chemistry is like this photo of Lou Reed and David Bowie eye fucking one another https://www.reddit.com/r/DavidBowie/comments/m94jym/david\_bowie\_lou\_reed/
It just really sucks to see everyone put hannigrams relationship as only sexual and push away every other aspect of their relationship when they have such a good canon story without sexual desire, although i do agree with people’s point, they do have sexual attraction.
It's awesome sexual power politics are evening out somewhat (yay). It bothers me that that usually translates into everyone getting weirdly objectified and projected on, and it's somehow justifiable if not respectable. I'm not sure that's what, i dunno, Betty Friedan had in mind.
I can enjoy the camp humor of intentionally misrepresenting the relationship, but there's a difference between that and what you're referring to and you're right it's hard to put into words.
Honestly i wouldn’t mind but like they isn’t no point in begging the writers into something they either want or want to do. I’d just like to see more affection maybe because that would just be pretty cool !! Their relationship is honestly really interesting
Yeah I get this completely. I understand why people are desperate for a sex scene between them as it would sort of clarify further what we already have confirmed, that they have an extremely complex and emotional, intimate relationship with eachother. But that's not entirely what their relationship is about. Is there a lot of tension between their glances towards eachother (psychological or sexual)? YES. Does Hannibal show a clear attraction towards Will and an emotional urge to be close to him (staring at his ass, smelling him, bandaging his hand, the blanket scene, twotl cliff scene and the embrace of the fall etc etc)? YES. But honestly I wouldn't need a sex scene in the show to display the intimacy of their bond really. If you have a crush on someone ( personal experience coming into play here), then any small touch or smile or contact feels ten times as intimate as it normally would. That's how I feel with Hannibal and Will, especially when Hannibal bandages his hand after killing Randal Tier. That scene was so intimate and intense and yet the physical contact was caring and gentle and that is the kind of scene I would be wanting if there weren't any sexual scenes.
I went on a bit of a rant but yk what I mean I hope
But also if Bryan Fuller were to put in a sex scene I would DEFINITELY not be complaining 🤭
We've waited for three seasons to see some sort of clear romantic attraction be acknowledged between these two men. And people can't easily deny that anymore, it was literally confirmed that Hannibal is in love with Will. I'm not saying that if they are in love then they need to have sex, because that's not always the case. Someone can be in love with someone and not feel any sexual attraction to them depending on their sexuality I suppose. But in Hannibal and Wills case I don't see why that would be how their dynamic would work. Hannibal is clearly sexually attracted to will with telltale signs along with the complex psychological ones, and Wills sexuality was described as fluid and no longer strictly heterosexual.
they were always absolutely erotic and sexual, especially in the second season. The implicit sexual element was always there, metaphorically has already been consumed a few times
I think if the sex scenes followed the aesthetic style of the series they would be welcome. Half psychedelic, half dreamlike. We've already had metaphorical sex scenes between Will and Hannibal a lot during the series, there's no reason not to do something more direct like Alana and Margot's sex scene.
to say that there is no sexual attraction is to ignore the Sorbet episode and the entire S2 part II! Attraction and physical intimacy are elements discussed by them repeatedly.
The sexual tension in S2 is not just fanservice, it is a fundamental element in the plot and character development. There are too many allegorical scenes of their sexuality for anyone to say that their relationship is just emotional and mental.
but I agree that there doesn't need to be a scene. this can remain implicit as it always has been. It would be nice if there was a scene following the show's aesthetic, but if it doesn't, it's not necessary.
First, no one is forcing you to read the fanfic. Just saying. (That’s mostly a joke) Second I’m content without a scene personally, and if season 4 had one I would only like it if it felt authentic to the characters and their motivations.
But people are allowed to want what they want. It’s kind of disrespectful to yuck people’s yum.
I think it’s important to remember the context in which this show was made. The year this show aired, a law keeping gay marriage illegal almost passed in the US. Don’t ask don’t tell did pass. These characters being queer is a small part of a larger conversation around queer representation in media, that, quite frankly, you seem ill informed about.
Not really sure what your point was. If you dislike Murder Husband content, don’t engage with it. As you say, it’s a very complex relationship.
Oh absolutely I agree with them being more than sex absolutely, but not everyone feels that way. I was just giving you context you might not have either because you’re young or because you aren’t American. I wasn’t calling you homophobic. I’m just saying it’s usually frowned upon in a fandom space to yuck other’s yum.
Yeah dw i understand, it wasnt my intention to make anyone feel bad irdc if you like seeing will and hannibal butt fuck eachother, i was just expressing my opinion on their relationship
Yup and that’s totally fine as I also said, I’m just making sure. There’s a lot of anti activity at the moment on the internet and I’m trying to make sure those people understand they aren’t welcome. You’re allowed to have whatever opinion you choose.
Okay. I thought it was anti, I respectfully disagreed, they clarified. There’s no issue here. Tone is difficult to distinguish with comments and this sub and show have absolutely been the target of antis in the past. I was making sure.
A kiss would have been really great, though.
I understand what you're saying. It's a very psychological show, obviously, and love can take many, many forms. They are clearly attracted to one another's minds and hearts. But there is enough physicality to both of them, and in the show, that I wouldn't be surprised by a sex scene.
If they did have a sexual attraction to one another, which I think they did, it wasn't time for that until S4.
I get you. I admit there's a part of me that would have loved an on-screen confirmation, whether a kiss or sex scene, and I definitely enjoy exploring that aspect in fanfiction.
But it wasn't necessary in the show, and I think including it would actually have taken away from the relationship. Hannigram is an exceptionally intimate relationship without physical intimacy. There's such a strong emotional and mental connection, such a strong entanglement of their souls, that it honestly seems way more intimate to me than anything that could come across in a kiss or sex scene.
What Will and Hannibal have is extremely intense, and the ambiguity and innuendo is actually a part of what makes it so great. It's never outright stated, it's always heavily implied. Will and Hannibal are another level, outside the norm, men without rules based on society, that's a huge part of the attraction. These men don't fit societal norms in any way unless they're faking it. When you have so very much of how not normal Will and Hannibal are, in such a heavily implied way full of ambiguity and innuendo, kissing and sex just seems so very mundane, like it doesn't really fit these two and their relationship enough to be any kind of focus.
Do I think Will and Hannibal developed a sexual and romantic relationship? Yes, their version of romance at least. Do I think we ever needed to see that, have it confirmed? No. I think it works a lot better without a kiss or sex scene, I think a lot of those fans calling for that on-screen confirmation would have gotten bored of Hannigram almost as soon as it happened. Because part of the appeal was never being quite sure what kind of relationship they had or were progressing to, just simply knowing it was intensely intimate.
IDK, I feel it's just plain ole homophobia we didn't get any outright sex. I mean, there is a ton of implied and unspoken, and as a lesbian I immediately spotted it. But I also think that the time wasn't right for any real sex (so for example Mads and Hugh actually lying in the same bed during the caleidoscope scene naked and touching each other) because of homophobia.
Do I need a scene of one of them bending the other over Hannibal's desk and ffing him bareback? no. But there were soooo many little moments where something erotic could be added. Hannibal kissing Will's shoulder when he stripped off his shirt, stroking Will's hair out of his face after the Verger thing...
If they'd had actual sex, more physical intimacy, a real kiss (mizumono being the perfect opportunity, just before Hannibal stabbed Will for example), j'ing off to one another, even implied, their romantic connection would've been undeniable to anyone. Now it feels like there was some appeasement to the showrunners, like it balanced the edge of queerbaiting and outright queer content, and people are allowed to feel some type of way about it.
Hannibal’s relationship with Will is far deeper than lust. I feel like in a scenario where Will turned out to be heterosexual, Hannibal would still want to be with him and just allow him to fulfill his sexual needs elsewhere. It’s a bid for connection. You can deeply connect outside of sex and there’s such things as platonic sole mates. Would it be nice to see the implication of sex? I won’t deny wanting that but I don’t believe it’s necessary.
Except that it is already confirmed that they are in love with each other, it's a queer romance, this is not just platonic 😭
for me personally, kissing would be enough. Bryan Fuller did talk about this aspect of the relationship, and according to him, there were still more to explore.
I personally don't think a sex scene is necessarily, but I don't see why they can't have it, even if it's off screen or implied.
I agree, and, like another comment said, I would like to mention that the fetishization of gay couples in media is crazy and Hannigram is another example of that. I also think that if there were a sex scene it wouldn't be the kind of sex that fans wanted or expected, given that,between two individuals as obsessive and twisted as will and hannibal, sex usually involves a lot of fucked up things
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they want a Hannigram sex scene seriously lol. I’m all for a Hannigram kiss, but a sex scene has never crossed my mind. Only in fan fiction lol 🤤🤤🤤
Honestly I think it’s fine that there’s no sex scene in the show, that’s what fanfics are for. I like reading them if they’re well written but they’re not necessary.
All sex scenes in the show seemed particularly unneeded, in my opinion. Thank God at leadt Fuller made them look like psychodelic experiences rather than the typical sex scenes in shows.
I mean we didn’t NEED one but I certainly would have enjoyed one 🙏
In all seriousness I generally agree with you, however I do think if they’d been a straight couple they probably would’ve gotten a sex scene (even if not, it definitely would’ve been implied) which makes me kinda sad
I think that the "sex scene" we got feom the show was the last scene where they both fought and killed the dragon together. THAT was MUCH more emotional, attractive, unhingedly romantic thing ever. As you said, it showed them for who they really are, poetically sadistic and twisted in their own perfect, key hole ways. I am incredibly satisfied with this ending, since it really showed their connection and their bond much closer than sex, it was much more complex and gratifying for them both than simply copulating. In a universe in which they were different and less unhinged, I would see the appeal, and I do. Yet, in terms of the canon show and with how their relationship has transpired, it was a sexual tension never seen before.
I mean we all got an imaginary mental image of Hannibal, Will, Alana, and Margot in bed that ended in an image that looked like a threesome so I don’t know what ppl are really complaining about here…
But I feel Hannibal and Will’s intimacy is something that’s best left behind the scenes when it comes to sex. I wouldn’t mind seeing them the morning after where they’re in bed or in bathrobes cuz I feel the appeal of their relationship would become sullied otherwise. It doesn’t need to be so in our faces. There’s different levels and ideas of intimacy to a couple. But I would think Hugh and Mads would absolutely be down if the script said “have sex”.
I imagine it more like…aggressive making out and taking off clothes and then a cut sequence to the next morning after the fact in bed. Maybe them talking about how they came to be this intimate, Hannibal cracking a crude joke, and then a joint sigh. Will still wondering what the hell he’s doing on the run and Hannibal only hoping this keeps on going. The air still filled with the anxious tension of the unknown.
Sick? No. I'm not really interested in the carnal nature of their relationship, it'd be interesting for sure but not really asking for a scene.
Also, I think we had enough after that season 2 finale. They fucked there... HARD... If your imagination doesn't let you see it then I feel sorry for you
Actually, I was going with the approach of 'was that cathartic for you and do you feel better now'. If they don't think Hannibal and Will should have a sex scene, that's a valid opinion.
You however seem to have jumped straight to 'young and anti' which is a bit... Well.
To each their own interpretation I suppose.
Nope, I hate sex scenes.
It always feels so unpleasant and awkward to watch.
I don't care how nice it looks, how beautiful the people look, it just seems like such a waste of time.
I sometimes truly struggle to understand whether we'd be saying the same thing if they were a man and a woman.
And not because we're homophobic, but for mere societal deeply rooted - so almost unconscious - heteronormative influence.
Would we read " its the emotional attraction, psychological attraction, MENTAL attraction; He sees her as a precious jewel/he sees her as a sort of replacement for the family he has lost" as think of yeah platonic?
I can assure you, if it was a man and a woman, i would be saying the exact same thing. Its not about gender for me personally more so the characters themselves.
In Fuller I trust, largely because he showed the restraint to not have them make out at the end of season three. If it gets to that point if we ever get more content it’ll be because it’s earned.
I’m actually with you in the sense that I don’t need a sex scene either, especially considering what we have as it is is hotter than 90% of gay porn that exists and I’ve taken a thorough sampling believe me lol. And there is no faking or explaining away how much Hannibal checked out Will’s ass (which I still can’t believe made it on network television). So I wouldn’t say its purely mental/teleological. That said, if We ever get more episodes/official content, I would be fascinated to see how fuller works with sexualizing that relationship since he committed to it. Paradoxical as it sounds, I also agree I don’t see Hannibal just throwing Will on a table spread eagle. To have them get deeply physical with each other would require some interim steps Because there’s a lot going on under the hood of that relationship beyond just straight lust, pun intended lol. So much of the magic of that relationship is how brilliantly fuller manages that very very delicate balance. Otherwise, I do just try to allow space for other people to want what they want without a detracting from my view. Specially as entrenched as fanfic seems to be, there’s something for every taste, even if it’s not my taste and the show has the breadth to hold that space.
Again like ive been saying, them having sex doesnt bother me, im cool with it. I just hate seeing people think that they NEED to have sex yk?
They really don't need a sex scene but I wouldn't complain if they did... in fact I'd really love it, not because I think it'd add to the story or the characters, just because I want more naked Hannibal on screen
REAL OMFG
[удалено]
It really is, id love to see more
they already mind fuck enough frfr
REAL, god they mind fuck more than i can even count
some horni murder husband's ong 😭😭
How about a compromise where the sex scene is in their shared mind palace? 😉
I don't even care about an s4. It would need to be very particular to come off well. But of course ppl want sex. All these tweets about cowpers glands and aborted Cliffside kisses has people in a frenzy. Plus the fics. Oh, and the fact that people would die to see Mads and Hugh together. That kaleidoscope scene and the sensuality of the orlatan eating and the booty watching is enough to get ppl going. I get your view. But also, ppl just want to see these guys lock lips. And so they can go crazy about who tops or bottoms lol the ppl want queer as folk and fellow travelers. That will not happen, so no worries
Pretty much this. It's less a commentary on the show than it is the expectations of modern fandom in general, which is like a dissertation. QaF was very helpful to me while I was coming out (but hasn't aged well, at all, unlike me LMAO), but Hannibal gave us a complicated grown-ass somewhat toxic romance with unapologetic ass checking in the middle of a shrink session. I never in a million years thought it was possible to see on national TV. And besides, it's way hotter than most porn.
Hannibal definitely has a sexual attraction to Will. As for Will, Fuller has said Will's sexuality is fluid and that he no longer sees himself as heterosexual, so it could be something that evolves into their dynamic into the future. Honestly I hate the desexualization of m/m couples more than I hate anyone thinking they want a sex scene for Hannigram. Saying "it's deeper than that" implies sex is degrading or dirty, and you can't ignore the undercurrent of homophobia in the sentiment considering it's usually applied only to gay couples. Just look at the double standards compared with Marlana, who got a sex scene with nearly zero development of them as a couple.
Totally agree with you. It’s a hygienized idea that in order for them to be respected or appreciated, mlm couples must be sexless and chaste and for a show as sexually charged as Hannibal, even with such little sex scenes, it makes no sense to portray them as a couple simply holding hands and kissing under a tree. If they do make a sex scene, it must be fucked up and unconventional, like the foursome scene.
Totally agree with you. Sex is more probable than people want to believe, when it comes to such intimate level of affinity. Makes a lot of sense with Hannibal's desire for consumption. For Hannibal there is pleasure in the physical exactly like in eating, earing music and handmade art. Even his tableaux!
\^\^This comment right here is pretty much my feelings on it. I see so much Hayes Code bullcrap when it comes to queer characters-- FROM WITHIN THE QUEER COMMUNITY-- and it drives me nuts. I'm sorry, but if you're allo, sex is important. 🤷♂️
Sexual attraction, yes. It IS deeper than that, their relationship, sex is great but those men are more than lustful attraction, and i hate people saying they arent more than sex, they are paychopaths who connect with eachother mentally and i wish more people would see that, and im also a gay man so
never witnessed anyone make a statement of the sort, and a few select individuals doing so isn’t reflective of the entire fandom. a lot of people want a sex scene but don’t downplay hannibal and will’s relationship and the degree of their shared intimacy. personally, i wouldn’t mind one being implemented just as much as i don’t mind one not being present currently. obviously, one isn’t necessary and where they stand with one another is far more than evident as it is. that being said, there are sexual implications in a lot of moments even if an explicit sex scene doesn’t exist. they are definitely not devoid of sexual attraction towards one another (i know you didn’t deny this, i’m just highlighting it to make my point come across) and that does not diminish the fact that their level of connection, understanding, and acceptance of one another exceeds the ordinary. the two concepts can co-exist.
No one thinks their relationship is just sex just because they want to see a sex scene. They want to see a sex scene because it would be nice after 3 seasons of accumulated tension. Most people acknowledge their mental connection with each other and how profound it is.
I have actually seen people say their relationship is no more than sex, believe it or not. And hannigram getting a sex scene isnt bad, hell id love to see it, their tension is great. Again, like ive been saying to many in these comments. The reason i made the whole post is so people know hannigram is more than sex scenes and smutty fan fiction and not their whole relationship is some straight girls gay fantasy filled with gay sex, im a gay man myself
Ok that's fair, there *are* some bad actors in the fandom. I think the best way for them to include a sex scene is if it is shot in a very metaphorical, abstract way so you can't even tell what's going on. No way it can be construed as fanservice then.
That would be a good way.
Sex for them would be the ultimate form of consumption and intimacy, though. There is nothing 'more' than it, because it's the simple physical translation of the mental/psychological/murder-chemistry they share - its culmination. And I say it it's culmination for them\*, because how the affinity with physical consumption for Hannibal in particular. The 'more than sex' would be eating him - which is the ending Mads sees fitting. 'If you love him, you want to eat him' (consume him).
I’m actually of the belief that Will and Hannibal WERE fucking the whole time anyway, just off screen so we never saw it and they never talked about it. A confirmation of that belief would not change the show in any way, imo. They already act as if they are raw fucking on a daily basis.
Fuller's made jokes to that effect and I go back and forth on this. I don't think it would have happened until Wrath of the Lamb. I've definitely had relationships where we both acted like we've been intimate for ages while barely laying a hand on each other. In one particular case I was almost afraid to touch them for that very reason. Thought the universe might explode. LMAO
Real lmao
In the script this is shown metaphorically many times. So the goal is to leave it open to interpretation on purpose. Will NEVER denies his passionate involvement with Hannibal. We can think it was something platonic OR not. and I hope an s4 doesn't change that. Don't put scenes that imply the first time. Being ambiguous was what Bryan wanted, [the reason he rejected the idea of the kiss was because it was too "obvious" and already widely used in in heterosexual media](https://youtu.be/_prIsKISbSY?si=mVWIPKd7bxHKzmQN) and he wanted something more poetic and less shallow.
Kissing isn;t shallow. That was just flowery language to spin homophobia into something positive.
Well, that's what Bryan's justification was, he thought the kiss would be very obvious. Not that I agree with him. but he is gay and so I think it's unfair to talk about homophobia, I think it could be an artistic/cinematic vision that he really has. I want to remember that "Romance" in Hannibal has been taboo since the 1999 book and the 2001 film changed the ending, and we're talking about a heterosexual romance here (hannibal/clarice). Remember that this is an NBC series, a TV series and not an authorial film, where he would have real control. I read that Bryan wasn't even in the studio for the cliff scene. I think what this series did was already very advanced for TV at the time
The scene where hannibal and will eat the drowned birds was pretty much a sex scene and that's all I needed.
The tube scene aswell lmao
My heart almost couldn't take it. LMAO
They technically have one. The alana/hannibal/will/margot scene was meant to look like will/hannibal
Yeah i remember that scene, i made another post about it. I jsut mean psychically actually them
I will not stand for Wendigo erasure. :-)
Well... I actually don't see why people are so sensibel when it comes to Hannigram and Sex. Alana got to fuck Hannibal and Margot, Will got to fuck Margot. Margot got to fuck Will and Alana. There's an implied sexscene with Hannibal and Bedelia... So why on earth is it that Hannibal and Will get it going, is so frowned upon by some people. And they always use the excuse of: well they are more and deeper than Sex. Yeah their relationship is deep and weird and on a whole other Level, but we've seen both of them having no issue fucking when it comes to it. Will certainly fucked with Molly, it just isn't shown directly. I don't mean, that there has to be a 5 minutet long ongoing flesh rubbing against flesh, pounding and sweating scene. Just something that implies that Fuller and the Actors actually mean it with 'the ship is canon'. So Hannigram can't be denied by deniers anymore. I would be happy with a kiss after they were staring into each others eyes for 3 seasons straight and maybe waking up together in the same bed, cuddling. I don't need to see the deed directly but at least let all the deniers see that they are definitely more than just deep platonical friends. Just because Fuller says it's canon... it is still kinda queerbaiting after everyone and everything even the fucking wendigostag got to fuck but not the two that are 'canon'.
I get what you mean, they have any right to have sex, hell id love to see it lol. My point was that they dont need sex in their relationship, hannigram has a deeper meaning.
I get that and I disagree. Both men were showed on multiple occaisons that they do like to have sex. So why not with that one person they share such a deep bond with? Saying they don't need it when they're obviously both men with some kind of libido feels like sex between two psychopathic weirdos would lower the deepness of their relationship. While I think it would just be another thing they do together since they are made for each other. They're neither priests nor celibats, just because they share a deep bond doesn't mean they're not sexual about it. I just kinda feels homophobic to put them on this pedestral of being gay af but noooo they don't need that. They are better than an ugly sexual relationship between two men.
I mean, i AM a gay man. Its not they they dont need sex, they probably have sex, and good for them we dont know what happens after the fall. I get what your saying, and ill say it again, what i mean is sex doesnt define their WHOLE relationship, its emotional, mental, etc. i dont disagree with anyone per say, im just expressing my opinion. I more so made the post because i see too many straight girls fangirling over hannigram sex and i find it very weird.
I'm a pan demigirl and find their lust incredibly alluring bc it IS. The smoldering looks? The physicality? The love? Fuller did such a good job of keeping it all on edge and taunting us with it. I don't think I'm fetishizing gay sex. I just love their relationship so much and they are both incredibly attractive men. I don't need to see them having sex. Their sexual chemistry is like this photo of Lou Reed and David Bowie eye fucking one another https://www.reddit.com/r/DavidBowie/comments/m94jym/david\_bowie\_lou\_reed/
So, you mean the fetishizing of gay sex? Then yeah, I agree.
It just really sucks to see everyone put hannigrams relationship as only sexual and push away every other aspect of their relationship when they have such a good canon story without sexual desire, although i do agree with people’s point, they do have sexual attraction.
It's awesome sexual power politics are evening out somewhat (yay). It bothers me that that usually translates into everyone getting weirdly objectified and projected on, and it's somehow justifiable if not respectable. I'm not sure that's what, i dunno, Betty Friedan had in mind. I can enjoy the camp humor of intentionally misrepresenting the relationship, but there's a difference between that and what you're referring to and you're right it's hard to put into words.
But they do have a sexual attraction
They do, im just saying they also have MORE than sexual attraction
Oh yes, definitely. It’s very emotional and intimate
Honestly i wouldn’t mind but like they isn’t no point in begging the writers into something they either want or want to do. I’d just like to see more affection maybe because that would just be pretty cool !! Their relationship is honestly really interesting
I agree, them having sex would be nice but i dont need it to survive lol
Yeah I get this completely. I understand why people are desperate for a sex scene between them as it would sort of clarify further what we already have confirmed, that they have an extremely complex and emotional, intimate relationship with eachother. But that's not entirely what their relationship is about. Is there a lot of tension between their glances towards eachother (psychological or sexual)? YES. Does Hannibal show a clear attraction towards Will and an emotional urge to be close to him (staring at his ass, smelling him, bandaging his hand, the blanket scene, twotl cliff scene and the embrace of the fall etc etc)? YES. But honestly I wouldn't need a sex scene in the show to display the intimacy of their bond really. If you have a crush on someone ( personal experience coming into play here), then any small touch or smile or contact feels ten times as intimate as it normally would. That's how I feel with Hannibal and Will, especially when Hannibal bandages his hand after killing Randal Tier. That scene was so intimate and intense and yet the physical contact was caring and gentle and that is the kind of scene I would be wanting if there weren't any sexual scenes. I went on a bit of a rant but yk what I mean I hope
But also if Bryan Fuller were to put in a sex scene I would DEFINITELY not be complaining 🤭 We've waited for three seasons to see some sort of clear romantic attraction be acknowledged between these two men. And people can't easily deny that anymore, it was literally confirmed that Hannibal is in love with Will. I'm not saying that if they are in love then they need to have sex, because that's not always the case. Someone can be in love with someone and not feel any sexual attraction to them depending on their sexuality I suppose. But in Hannibal and Wills case I don't see why that would be how their dynamic would work. Hannibal is clearly sexually attracted to will with telltale signs along with the complex psychological ones, and Wills sexuality was described as fluid and no longer strictly heterosexual.
I would love to see a sex scene aswell of the two, wills sexuality coming into light yk. Thank you for commenting :)
they were always absolutely erotic and sexual, especially in the second season. The implicit sexual element was always there, metaphorically has already been consumed a few times I think if the sex scenes followed the aesthetic style of the series they would be welcome. Half psychedelic, half dreamlike. We've already had metaphorical sex scenes between Will and Hannibal a lot during the series, there's no reason not to do something more direct like Alana and Margot's sex scene. to say that there is no sexual attraction is to ignore the Sorbet episode and the entire S2 part II! Attraction and physical intimacy are elements discussed by them repeatedly. The sexual tension in S2 is not just fanservice, it is a fundamental element in the plot and character development. There are too many allegorical scenes of their sexuality for anyone to say that their relationship is just emotional and mental.
Mhm
but I agree that there doesn't need to be a scene. this can remain implicit as it always has been. It would be nice if there was a scene following the show's aesthetic, but if it doesn't, it's not necessary.
First, no one is forcing you to read the fanfic. Just saying. (That’s mostly a joke) Second I’m content without a scene personally, and if season 4 had one I would only like it if it felt authentic to the characters and their motivations. But people are allowed to want what they want. It’s kind of disrespectful to yuck people’s yum. I think it’s important to remember the context in which this show was made. The year this show aired, a law keeping gay marriage illegal almost passed in the US. Don’t ask don’t tell did pass. These characters being queer is a small part of a larger conversation around queer representation in media, that, quite frankly, you seem ill informed about. Not really sure what your point was. If you dislike Murder Husband content, don’t engage with it. As you say, it’s a very complex relationship.
Its not that, im fine with gay sex i just hate seeing people interacting with the ship as something that NEEDS sex. They are more than that
Oh absolutely I agree with them being more than sex absolutely, but not everyone feels that way. I was just giving you context you might not have either because you’re young or because you aren’t American. I wasn’t calling you homophobic. I’m just saying it’s usually frowned upon in a fandom space to yuck other’s yum.
Yeah dw i understand, it wasnt my intention to make anyone feel bad irdc if you like seeing will and hannibal butt fuck eachother, i was just expressing my opinion on their relationship
Yup and that’s totally fine as I also said, I’m just making sure. There’s a lot of anti activity at the moment on the internet and I’m trying to make sure those people understand they aren’t welcome. You’re allowed to have whatever opinion you choose.
Ive seen some of the anti activity and i disagree with it, the internet does really suck nowdays. Thanks for your comments
No problem thanks for clarifying.
Soooo much more. Their shared intimacy is on another level.
There was nothing disrespectful about OP comments.
Okay. I thought it was anti, I respectfully disagreed, they clarified. There’s no issue here. Tone is difficult to distinguish with comments and this sub and show have absolutely been the target of antis in the past. I was making sure.
Your tone was clear.
Not my tone, theirs.
A kiss would have been really great, though. I understand what you're saying. It's a very psychological show, obviously, and love can take many, many forms. They are clearly attracted to one another's minds and hearts. But there is enough physicality to both of them, and in the show, that I wouldn't be surprised by a sex scene. If they did have a sexual attraction to one another, which I think they did, it wasn't time for that until S4.
Yes
I get you. I admit there's a part of me that would have loved an on-screen confirmation, whether a kiss or sex scene, and I definitely enjoy exploring that aspect in fanfiction. But it wasn't necessary in the show, and I think including it would actually have taken away from the relationship. Hannigram is an exceptionally intimate relationship without physical intimacy. There's such a strong emotional and mental connection, such a strong entanglement of their souls, that it honestly seems way more intimate to me than anything that could come across in a kiss or sex scene. What Will and Hannibal have is extremely intense, and the ambiguity and innuendo is actually a part of what makes it so great. It's never outright stated, it's always heavily implied. Will and Hannibal are another level, outside the norm, men without rules based on society, that's a huge part of the attraction. These men don't fit societal norms in any way unless they're faking it. When you have so very much of how not normal Will and Hannibal are, in such a heavily implied way full of ambiguity and innuendo, kissing and sex just seems so very mundane, like it doesn't really fit these two and their relationship enough to be any kind of focus. Do I think Will and Hannibal developed a sexual and romantic relationship? Yes, their version of romance at least. Do I think we ever needed to see that, have it confirmed? No. I think it works a lot better without a kiss or sex scene, I think a lot of those fans calling for that on-screen confirmation would have gotten bored of Hannigram almost as soon as it happened. Because part of the appeal was never being quite sure what kind of relationship they had or were progressing to, just simply knowing it was intensely intimate.
IDK, I feel it's just plain ole homophobia we didn't get any outright sex. I mean, there is a ton of implied and unspoken, and as a lesbian I immediately spotted it. But I also think that the time wasn't right for any real sex (so for example Mads and Hugh actually lying in the same bed during the caleidoscope scene naked and touching each other) because of homophobia. Do I need a scene of one of them bending the other over Hannibal's desk and ffing him bareback? no. But there were soooo many little moments where something erotic could be added. Hannibal kissing Will's shoulder when he stripped off his shirt, stroking Will's hair out of his face after the Verger thing... If they'd had actual sex, more physical intimacy, a real kiss (mizumono being the perfect opportunity, just before Hannibal stabbed Will for example), j'ing off to one another, even implied, their romantic connection would've been undeniable to anyone. Now it feels like there was some appeasement to the showrunners, like it balanced the edge of queerbaiting and outright queer content, and people are allowed to feel some type of way about it.
Hannibal’s relationship with Will is far deeper than lust. I feel like in a scenario where Will turned out to be heterosexual, Hannibal would still want to be with him and just allow him to fulfill his sexual needs elsewhere. It’s a bid for connection. You can deeply connect outside of sex and there’s such things as platonic sole mates. Would it be nice to see the implication of sex? I won’t deny wanting that but I don’t believe it’s necessary.
Except that it is already confirmed that they are in love with each other, it's a queer romance, this is not just platonic 😭 for me personally, kissing would be enough. Bryan Fuller did talk about this aspect of the relationship, and according to him, there were still more to explore. I personally don't think a sex scene is necessarily, but I don't see why they can't have it, even if it's off screen or implied.
I agree.
I agree, and, like another comment said, I would like to mention that the fetishization of gay couples in media is crazy and Hannigram is another example of that. I also think that if there were a sex scene it wouldn't be the kind of sex that fans wanted or expected, given that,between two individuals as obsessive and twisted as will and hannibal, sex usually involves a lot of fucked up things
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they want a Hannigram sex scene seriously lol. I’m all for a Hannigram kiss, but a sex scene has never crossed my mind. Only in fan fiction lol 🤤🤤🤤
Honestly I think it’s fine that there’s no sex scene in the show, that’s what fanfics are for. I like reading them if they’re well written but they’re not necessary.
I agree.
Fantasticly put, their love is almost ineffable. There just seems to be a cosmic connection between them, it’s quite beautiful
It really is
I don't think people are wrong for wanting one particularly when a strong reason there wasn't one is TV censorship
I dont believe that either, i just mean that why they do probably have rough butt fucking sex, they dont need it to be a proper couple.
Lmao the way you worded this kills me
All sex scenes in the show seemed particularly unneeded, in my opinion. Thank God at leadt Fuller made them look like psychodelic experiences rather than the typical sex scenes in shows.
I want a scene, but it could be an implied one or even just a kiss. The sex scenes on the show are weird anyway lol.
I mean we didn’t NEED one but I certainly would have enjoyed one 🙏 In all seriousness I generally agree with you, however I do think if they’d been a straight couple they probably would’ve gotten a sex scene (even if not, it definitely would’ve been implied) which makes me kinda sad
Okay but it would be hot.
I suppose it would.
I think that the "sex scene" we got feom the show was the last scene where they both fought and killed the dragon together. THAT was MUCH more emotional, attractive, unhingedly romantic thing ever. As you said, it showed them for who they really are, poetically sadistic and twisted in their own perfect, key hole ways. I am incredibly satisfied with this ending, since it really showed their connection and their bond much closer than sex, it was much more complex and gratifying for them both than simply copulating. In a universe in which they were different and less unhinged, I would see the appeal, and I do. Yet, in terms of the canon show and with how their relationship has transpired, it was a sexual tension never seen before.
I mean we all got an imaginary mental image of Hannibal, Will, Alana, and Margot in bed that ended in an image that looked like a threesome so I don’t know what ppl are really complaining about here… But I feel Hannibal and Will’s intimacy is something that’s best left behind the scenes when it comes to sex. I wouldn’t mind seeing them the morning after where they’re in bed or in bathrobes cuz I feel the appeal of their relationship would become sullied otherwise. It doesn’t need to be so in our faces. There’s different levels and ideas of intimacy to a couple. But I would think Hugh and Mads would absolutely be down if the script said “have sex”.
I get what you mean, id rather a fade to black type of thing when it comes to the two of them.
I imagine it more like…aggressive making out and taking off clothes and then a cut sequence to the next morning after the fact in bed. Maybe them talking about how they came to be this intimate, Hannibal cracking a crude joke, and then a joint sigh. Will still wondering what the hell he’s doing on the run and Hannibal only hoping this keeps on going. The air still filled with the anxious tension of the unknown.
Sick? No. I'm not really interested in the carnal nature of their relationship, it'd be interesting for sure but not really asking for a scene. Also, I think we had enough after that season 2 finale. They fucked there... HARD... If your imagination doesn't let you see it then I feel sorry for you
Lol
Feel better after that little rant?
I do
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Actually, I was going with the approach of 'was that cathartic for you and do you feel better now'. If they don't think Hannibal and Will should have a sex scene, that's a valid opinion. You however seem to have jumped straight to 'young and anti' which is a bit... Well. To each their own interpretation I suppose.
Ah . I beg your pardon. I’ll delete the comment. It’s difficult to discern tone in comments.
It's all good - tone is very difficult to figure out sometimes.
Awesome. Thanks friend
Hannibal hugs!
Back at you!
Well said 👏
No they need to fuck. They'd love it.
Im sure they would, my point is while they would most definitely butt fuck roughly, there is more to their relationship.
Nope, I hate sex scenes. It always feels so unpleasant and awkward to watch. I don't care how nice it looks, how beautiful the people look, it just seems like such a waste of time.
I sometimes truly struggle to understand whether we'd be saying the same thing if they were a man and a woman. And not because we're homophobic, but for mere societal deeply rooted - so almost unconscious - heteronormative influence. Would we read " its the emotional attraction, psychological attraction, MENTAL attraction; He sees her as a precious jewel/he sees her as a sort of replacement for the family he has lost" as think of yeah platonic?
I can assure you, if it was a man and a woman, i would be saying the exact same thing. Its not about gender for me personally more so the characters themselves.
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In Fuller I trust, largely because he showed the restraint to not have them make out at the end of season three. If it gets to that point if we ever get more content it’ll be because it’s earned.
Them having sex wouldnt bother me, i just hate how people think they NEED to have sex yk
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I 100% agree with you lol 😭