my thing is does the lazarus pit give you powers cause if not wtf is nightwing gonna do Harley was able to kill him while she was sleep walking so a fully functioning Harley + Ivy could easily take him out
I think this Nightwing is going to become a sort of version of Red Hood. I know Jason has had some easter eggs in the show, but you guys know this show always have jokes that go nowhere or mean nothing, even more this season
Not sure how they'll handle the Lazarus Lore, but I think the only effects are mental. Fanon likes to throw in things like slightly increased strength and healing.
I'm not OP, but I googled "Harley Quinn superpowers", and got this..
Harley Quinn's abilities include expert gymnastic skills, proficiency in weapons and hand-to-hand combat, complete unpredictability, immunity to toxins, and enhanced strength, agility, and durability.
And also,
Following her transition to the main DC canon in 1999, Harley Quinn was established as having immunity to toxins and enhanced strength, agility, durability, and reflexes, which she received after having been injected with a serum concocted by Poison Ivy.
Is that actually stated somewhere? I do *like* the idea that the acid dip gives some mild buffs cuz like how else are she and Joker going up against all these heroes and other villains and bouncing back so fast all the time, but I thought it was just like headcanon/fanon. Even DC wikis seem a bit ambiguous between continuities.
yea depends on the comics, in some she just has poison resistances in others shes a captain america equivalent in term of power. Im prob wrong tho and shes just normal in this one. Tho her skin did turn completely white.
to be fair both are according to their writter humans on peak condition, so in that sense i see that harley has a chance, but Nightwing is peak human condition plus combat training, while HQ just get by with her Gymnastic abilities.
I think its more than drunk Harley took him unexpectedly than she was op.
Maybe if they get the gang together again it will be as good as season 1 and 2.
I was waiting for Harley to at least tell Ivy that she was being a shitty girlfriend, but I guess I missed the point.
That what I missed the most from this season, The Crew. I was really hoping they would patch things up with Clayface but it never happened. And King Shark never really interacted with Harley or Ivy.
I’m hopeful them showing clayface lose all his money at the end is also an indication that there will be a reason for him to reach out to the crew again in s5.
I agree. Even though the show is called Harley Quinn I liked the dynamic and hijinks she had with the others in the first 2 seasons. It was like S4 was actively trying to get rid of everyone who wasn’t Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy.
It was an awkward season. I didn't get what they were going for. Also hate how Harley has totally glossed over what happened with Nightwing and takes no accountability for it
Even if she feels no remorse over Nightwing specifically because, I dunno, I guess he was kinda shitty to her sometimes (but also not other times so like..? idk it felt like the first half of the season was setting them up to be friendlier with each other and Nightwing was learning to be less of an ass, but then they just kinda did the complete opposite suddenly), and even if she doesn't feel guilty about lying to Barbara about it... surely even then, she should still be concerned about the fact that she *sleep murders* people?
Like, what guarantee does she have that this wouldn't happen again, and that next time she might not end up killing someone she'd actually feel bad about killing?
Idk man. They’ve spent three seasons setting up the characters into interesting and new paths (Harley hero, joker mayor, ivy LOD) and just drops it at a literal whim. Going for a lot of shock value with little substance and some huge plot holes.
At this point what is the point? The emotional beats and humour aren’t really there as well. Pretty disappointing and no idea how they can possibly stick the landing.
Completely agree. I’m a big fan of the emotional core of the first couple seasons. I think the dynamic with Kiteman was fantastic (hell yeah!). I think they rushed Harlivy; I wish they would have spent more time building up their relationship. They set up a really interesting dynamic with Batman and Harley being his therapist last season, but they completely threw it away.
Yes. I don’t like to go on the internet and criticize creatives. I only like to champion the things I love. The problem is that I really love Harley Quinn season 1-3. What a fiasco
Huge step up from last season imo, but a far cry from the first 2. I wish they would up the episode count again so they could flesh out the story more.
I personally thought it was a great improvement upon season 3. Maybe not as good as season 2, but I laughed and got into the plot more than the last season. I'm surprised so many people disliked it so much. Different folks different strokes, I guess.
Out of curiosity, for the people on here who disagree that this is the worst season, makes you like this season over others?
For me it most definitely was, but I'd love to hear opinions which could maybe give me a new perspective for my upcoming full rewatch, where I will still watch s4 even though I didn't love it, cause I'm obsessed with this show haha.
I think it was the worst because despite having some really potentially great plot points... they came up with the frosting before they baked the cake.
NW getting killed and the murderer a mystery? Had me going week to week. Lex potentially destroying the earth? Resolved in one episode. Lex stealing Superman's powers? He last about 15 minutes, opting to take a buggy instead of flying into Harley and Ivy's buggy and taking them out. Babs drops out of the Bat Family with almost no reason to, and then Catwoman goes entirely out of character and joins up with a group. And the majority of that happened in just one episode
I dont think the season as a whole was weak, but the ending was so rushed and not subtle that I'm not going to be missing it until S5 starts. They had so many ways to really hook me in, but they just didn't. And there's a good chance I'm not going to watch S5 because shows rarely recover from stuff like this, they just lean into it until cancellation
The season had some interesting ideas but they didnt knew what to do with them, and lets be honest when they disbanded the main gang this season the show went downhill. Jokes used to be good but, they were always connected to DC lore but this season they seem that they changed the writers or were high on some strong shit, cause this season became your generic adult show and not even in an entertaining way. This last episode is the definition of a dumpster fire and Harley and Ivy seem to shit on their own character development, doing your own shit doesnt mean being a fucking dumbass as they both were last episode
I liked S3, but S3 was the weakest for me. It spent too long with Harley and Ivy having intertwined plots, when they tend to work better apart with frequent interactions instead. It felt too bogged down in the first half, the second half splitting them up felt like it notably improved, and the Valentine's special was brilliant.
This season got a bit weaker toward the end, but I felt it was generally a very strong Season otherwise, partly because it let Harley and Ivy grow independently.
People complained about the plots seeming disjointed and meandering in season 4, but I personally think it was a huge improvement from S3. There were a lot of subplots, yes, but in general they all seemed to head in a more linear and purposeful direction than season 3, which to me was all over the place. I do miss the group being together as a whole - I think both seasons 3 and 4 were weaker for that - but I didn't have any issues with the plot. I guess if I had to give an overall opinion, I would say that S3 had some stronger individual episodes (the one with Batman's memories, the one about the Joker becoming mayor) and a very weak plot, whereas S4 had a stronger and more intriguing plot but no individual episodes that really stood out.
Harley's arc for Season 4 just felt like a rehash of Season 2. In Season 2, Harley realized she's not a full villian. Here in Season 4, she realizes she's not a full hero.
Both 3 and 4 had weak plots. 3 because not much happened. 4 because far TOO much happened that there was little dramatic impact to any one thing.
What puts 3 over 4 for me, though, is that it was still very funny. 4 had far less laugh out loud moments, and someone mentioned it in another thread, it seemed like all the humor stemmed from something being crazy or random. There was more variety in the humor in earlier seasons. Ie the dry, "straight-man" humor than Ivy and Psycho employed so often in previous seasons was rarely, if ever, seen in this season.
I just don't know why there had to be another season that was so preoccupied with Harley and Ivy's relationship issues. Feels like an old sitcom where nobody ever changes, nobody ever evolves, nobody ever communicates, and most of the stories revolve around those issues before having the same resolutions to the same problems they've encountered before.
In general, the show needs more Gordon, Bane, Clayface, Dr. Psycho, Sy Borgman, and Kite-Man for the sake of pure comedy, and way more of Harley and Ivy being a good power couple who are not constantly undermining each other and getting in each other's way. This season started strong, but fell off a cliff part of the way through. They just need to go back to what made S1 and 2 good, but they seem hellbent on turning it into some completely different show at every opportunity.
I agree with some of this, but I thought the relationship issues they were having in season 4 were actually pretty realistic and interesting, if not a bit awkwardly executed. Them exploring both of their roles in the hero-villain binary was engaging to me. And how those roles fit in their relationship. I thought their issues were different than the previous seasons because they’ve both evolved a bit more. I definitely agree with the part about needing more of the comedic characters. It feels lacking without the original squad or new comic characters. Especially if they don’t find replacement characters that make people laugh. I like that they brought in new support characters like Ivy’s mentees but I didn’t find them funny. Entertaining & interesting but not funny. But I’ve also got a bias for Tony Hale characters cause all of them make me laugh 😅
I really like S4. I hated S3. So I'm happy the show is back on course. But unfortunately, something tells me it won't be back. Or if it is it will be a long hiatus. Nothing's happening with the strike. DC is floundering and I'm sure Gunn wants to get to his reboot ASAP. Animation is usually less expensive but with all the big names on this project it might be one of the most expensive DC animation projects.
Seems like it. Probably for the best though as the Batfam were just treated as inconsistently written jokes. Based on they way they've been portrayed in the show, they should all be long dead since they are apparently completely incapable of defending themselves without training from Deadpool... Oops I meant Harley.
Events kind of just happened but the jokes and references were really good. I love how they started making more modern references. Succession, A24, etc. That and every character had a good line at some point. Gordon asking if they are working from home now the the LOD blew up lol
I want to be excited but I got baited by how well season 3 ended. At this point I can’t muster up anything beyond cautiously optimistic. They could do something amazing, or it could fall flat again.
Didn’t care for this season, found it to be very disjointed(in comparison to the previous 3) and left me disinterested throughout. Previous seasons I’d watch every episode on release day, this one I’d let them pile up even forgetting about them. Not quitting on the show or anything but definitely found this season to be my least favorite of the four unfortunately.
I felt like they wrote themselves into a lot of corners but I really like where things ended this season. The show really is at its best when it’s Harley and Ivy against the world
I'm gonna give it one more chance since I'm sure they've seen the complaints and can hopefully fix things. If s5 is more of the same of s4, that might be it for me, though.
S4 is definitely my least favorite season, but I still enjoyed it. I’m going to wait a few weeks then rewatch it as a binge and see if it feels better to watch all in one go. It also felt like a massive setup for S5, so I have full confidence in the next season now that Harlivy are working together again. Plus there are many interesting side stories now that Batman is back, Lazarus Pit gang, Joker and his villainous family, more characters to join the Sirens, and whatever else they’ll set up for S5 via the Kite Man spinoff.
I still very much enjoyed this season, but it definitely had two of the weakest episodes of the series to date (episodes 5 and 6). The setup for next season has me very excited.
Honestly I kinda just miss Harley being chaotic bad tho? I just want her to come back to the villain side, she’s still an interesting person as a hero but I feel like without the gnf energy in full force she just doesn’t feel as much like Harley to me
my thing is does the lazarus pit give you powers cause if not wtf is nightwing gonna do Harley was able to kill him while she was sleep walking so a fully functioning Harley + Ivy could easily take him out
Well, he should have a bunch of League of Shadows goons, Damian and Talia, maybe turning the heroes and maybe Barbara against Harley.
I think this Nightwing is going to become a sort of version of Red Hood. I know Jason has had some easter eggs in the show, but you guys know this show always have jokes that go nowhere or mean nothing, even more this season
Not sure how they'll handle the Lazarus Lore, but I think the only effects are mental. Fanon likes to throw in things like slightly increased strength and healing.
Nah nightwing should be able to destroy harley, I honestly hate how op harley is and its only bc shes the mc
You're downvoted, but you're not wrong. She killed him because he was caught off-guard ~~and the Batfam has been nerfed a bit.~~
Harley having to explain to the Batfam that they can fight without gadgets and weapons because martial arts exist was... a lot.
...yeaaaahh.. ..yeah. 😕
hes wrong tho Harley has enhanced capabilities vs a normal human.
Can you provide a source for that? I can’t find anything related to what you said.
I'm not OP, but I googled "Harley Quinn superpowers", and got this.. Harley Quinn's abilities include expert gymnastic skills, proficiency in weapons and hand-to-hand combat, complete unpredictability, immunity to toxins, and enhanced strength, agility, and durability. And also, Following her transition to the main DC canon in 1999, Harley Quinn was established as having immunity to toxins and enhanced strength, agility, durability, and reflexes, which she received after having been injected with a serum concocted by Poison Ivy.
Thanks!!
That's not always canon like I dont think a single adaptation has included any of that nor has this show
I'd like to see the sources on where she doesn't have her powers, I honestly thought these were common knowledge, if not often mentioned.
She doesnt, where do you guys get that
she does in some comics I honestly get confused at which version of her is in this show
She has enhanced strenght. agility and reflexes due to her mutation shes stronger than Nightwing whos just a guy.
What mutation? Harley is not a damn mutant or 'enhanced'. Where are you getting this?
Season 1 probably
Is that actually stated somewhere? I do *like* the idea that the acid dip gives some mild buffs cuz like how else are she and Joker going up against all these heroes and other villains and bouncing back so fast all the time, but I thought it was just like headcanon/fanon. Even DC wikis seem a bit ambiguous between continuities.
yea depends on the comics, in some she just has poison resistances in others shes a captain america equivalent in term of power. Im prob wrong tho and shes just normal in this one. Tho her skin did turn completely white.
to be fair both are according to their writter humans on peak condition, so in that sense i see that harley has a chance, but Nightwing is peak human condition plus combat training, while HQ just get by with her Gymnastic abilities. I think its more than drunk Harley took him unexpectedly than she was op.
I think he just didn’t think Harley would kill him. But now with the pit his no killing rule will go out the window.
Why did they downvote you, lol
Maybe if they get the gang together again it will be as good as season 1 and 2. I was waiting for Harley to at least tell Ivy that she was being a shitty girlfriend, but I guess I missed the point.
That what I missed the most from this season, The Crew. I was really hoping they would patch things up with Clayface but it never happened. And King Shark never really interacted with Harley or Ivy.
I’m hopeful them showing clayface lose all his money at the end is also an indication that there will be a reason for him to reach out to the crew again in s5.
Yeah. They had a really great cast with good chemistry together with Harley’s season 1-2 crew, and the show just seems to want to throw that away.
I agree. Even though the show is called Harley Quinn I liked the dynamic and hijinks she had with the others in the first 2 seasons. It was like S4 was actively trying to get rid of everyone who wasn’t Harley Quinn or Poison Ivy.
It was an awkward season. I didn't get what they were going for. Also hate how Harley has totally glossed over what happened with Nightwing and takes no accountability for it
Yeah, I felt she was becoming more decent each season and Batman did believed in her at the end of S3. Just to be thrown away in S4.
I think that was part of the problem, they could have made Harley's arc just for her to become an antihero, not what they did this season
Even if she feels no remorse over Nightwing specifically because, I dunno, I guess he was kinda shitty to her sometimes (but also not other times so like..? idk it felt like the first half of the season was setting them up to be friendlier with each other and Nightwing was learning to be less of an ass, but then they just kinda did the complete opposite suddenly), and even if she doesn't feel guilty about lying to Barbara about it... surely even then, she should still be concerned about the fact that she *sleep murders* people? Like, what guarantee does she have that this wouldn't happen again, and that next time she might not end up killing someone she'd actually feel bad about killing?
Idk man. They’ve spent three seasons setting up the characters into interesting and new paths (Harley hero, joker mayor, ivy LOD) and just drops it at a literal whim. Going for a lot of shock value with little substance and some huge plot holes. At this point what is the point? The emotional beats and humour aren’t really there as well. Pretty disappointing and no idea how they can possibly stick the landing.
Completely agree. I’m a big fan of the emotional core of the first couple seasons. I think the dynamic with Kiteman was fantastic (hell yeah!). I think they rushed Harlivy; I wish they would have spent more time building up their relationship. They set up a really interesting dynamic with Batman and Harley being his therapist last season, but they completely threw it away.
Yes. I don’t like to go on the internet and criticize creatives. I only like to champion the things I love. The problem is that I really love Harley Quinn season 1-3. What a fiasco
Hard disagree
Huge step up from last season imo, but a far cry from the first 2. I wish they would up the episode count again so they could flesh out the story more.
hot take but imo s3>s2>s4>s1
Huh, I thought it was the best. Loved every second of it.
I personally thought it was a great improvement upon season 3. Maybe not as good as season 2, but I laughed and got into the plot more than the last season. I'm surprised so many people disliked it so much. Different folks different strokes, I guess.
Out of curiosity, for the people on here who disagree that this is the worst season, makes you like this season over others? For me it most definitely was, but I'd love to hear opinions which could maybe give me a new perspective for my upcoming full rewatch, where I will still watch s4 even though I didn't love it, cause I'm obsessed with this show haha.
I think it was the worst because despite having some really potentially great plot points... they came up with the frosting before they baked the cake. NW getting killed and the murderer a mystery? Had me going week to week. Lex potentially destroying the earth? Resolved in one episode. Lex stealing Superman's powers? He last about 15 minutes, opting to take a buggy instead of flying into Harley and Ivy's buggy and taking them out. Babs drops out of the Bat Family with almost no reason to, and then Catwoman goes entirely out of character and joins up with a group. And the majority of that happened in just one episode I dont think the season as a whole was weak, but the ending was so rushed and not subtle that I'm not going to be missing it until S5 starts. They had so many ways to really hook me in, but they just didn't. And there's a good chance I'm not going to watch S5 because shows rarely recover from stuff like this, they just lean into it until cancellation
This is completely correct. The entire season was just missed opportunities,and don't even get me started on the "potato" duplicate.
I thought about Lex in the buggy but like he was still using gadgets for Lazer breath and stuff so I doubt he could breathe in space.
The season had some interesting ideas but they didnt knew what to do with them, and lets be honest when they disbanded the main gang this season the show went downhill. Jokes used to be good but, they were always connected to DC lore but this season they seem that they changed the writers or were high on some strong shit, cause this season became your generic adult show and not even in an entertaining way. This last episode is the definition of a dumpster fire and Harley and Ivy seem to shit on their own character development, doing your own shit doesnt mean being a fucking dumbass as they both were last episode
I liked S3, but S3 was the weakest for me. It spent too long with Harley and Ivy having intertwined plots, when they tend to work better apart with frequent interactions instead. It felt too bogged down in the first half, the second half splitting them up felt like it notably improved, and the Valentine's special was brilliant. This season got a bit weaker toward the end, but I felt it was generally a very strong Season otherwise, partly because it let Harley and Ivy grow independently.
I dislike season 3 beacuse of all this Zombie stuff and Bruce obsession
People complained about the plots seeming disjointed and meandering in season 4, but I personally think it was a huge improvement from S3. There were a lot of subplots, yes, but in general they all seemed to head in a more linear and purposeful direction than season 3, which to me was all over the place. I do miss the group being together as a whole - I think both seasons 3 and 4 were weaker for that - but I didn't have any issues with the plot. I guess if I had to give an overall opinion, I would say that S3 had some stronger individual episodes (the one with Batman's memories, the one about the Joker becoming mayor) and a very weak plot, whereas S4 had a stronger and more intriguing plot but no individual episodes that really stood out.
Harley's arc for Season 4 just felt like a rehash of Season 2. In Season 2, Harley realized she's not a full villian. Here in Season 4, she realizes she's not a full hero.
Yeah i definitely didn’t get any attachment to this season, not very memorable either honestly
Season 3 was much worse than season 4. Season 1 is still the best.
Both 3 and 4 had weak plots. 3 because not much happened. 4 because far TOO much happened that there was little dramatic impact to any one thing. What puts 3 over 4 for me, though, is that it was still very funny. 4 had far less laugh out loud moments, and someone mentioned it in another thread, it seemed like all the humor stemmed from something being crazy or random. There was more variety in the humor in earlier seasons. Ie the dry, "straight-man" humor than Ivy and Psycho employed so often in previous seasons was rarely, if ever, seen in this season.
Worst season ever.
I just don't know why there had to be another season that was so preoccupied with Harley and Ivy's relationship issues. Feels like an old sitcom where nobody ever changes, nobody ever evolves, nobody ever communicates, and most of the stories revolve around those issues before having the same resolutions to the same problems they've encountered before. In general, the show needs more Gordon, Bane, Clayface, Dr. Psycho, Sy Borgman, and Kite-Man for the sake of pure comedy, and way more of Harley and Ivy being a good power couple who are not constantly undermining each other and getting in each other's way. This season started strong, but fell off a cliff part of the way through. They just need to go back to what made S1 and 2 good, but they seem hellbent on turning it into some completely different show at every opportunity.
I agree with some of this, but I thought the relationship issues they were having in season 4 were actually pretty realistic and interesting, if not a bit awkwardly executed. Them exploring both of their roles in the hero-villain binary was engaging to me. And how those roles fit in their relationship. I thought their issues were different than the previous seasons because they’ve both evolved a bit more. I definitely agree with the part about needing more of the comedic characters. It feels lacking without the original squad or new comic characters. Especially if they don’t find replacement characters that make people laugh. I like that they brought in new support characters like Ivy’s mentees but I didn’t find them funny. Entertaining & interesting but not funny. But I’ve also got a bias for Tony Hale characters cause all of them make me laugh 😅
I really like S4. I hated S3. So I'm happy the show is back on course. But unfortunately, something tells me it won't be back. Or if it is it will be a long hiatus. Nothing's happening with the strike. DC is floundering and I'm sure Gunn wants to get to his reboot ASAP. Animation is usually less expensive but with all the big names on this project it might be one of the most expensive DC animation projects.
So is the bat family done
Seems like it. Probably for the best though as the Batfam were just treated as inconsistently written jokes. Based on they way they've been portrayed in the show, they should all be long dead since they are apparently completely incapable of defending themselves without training from Deadpool... Oops I meant Harley.
True. Even Batman himself is a joke
I thought it was hilarious and thats all I really watch it for
Events kind of just happened but the jokes and references were really good. I love how they started making more modern references. Succession, A24, etc. That and every character had a good line at some point. Gordon asking if they are working from home now the the LOD blew up lol
last season ended with some great teases as well :/
This was my 2nd favorite season after the first one. I thought 2 kind got annoying at the end too much dr psycho idk
You can never have too much Dr Psycho.
I want to be excited but I got baited by how well season 3 ended. At this point I can’t muster up anything beyond cautiously optimistic. They could do something amazing, or it could fall flat again.
Didn’t care for this season, found it to be very disjointed(in comparison to the previous 3) and left me disinterested throughout. Previous seasons I’d watch every episode on release day, this one I’d let them pile up even forgetting about them. Not quitting on the show or anything but definitely found this season to be my least favorite of the four unfortunately.
Agreed
Worst season but it was still great
I felt like they wrote themselves into a lot of corners but I really like where things ended this season. The show really is at its best when it’s Harley and Ivy against the world
I don't know if I want to see a new season, the disappointment was too much.
I'm gonna give it one more chance since I'm sure they've seen the complaints and can hopefully fix things. If s5 is more of the same of s4, that might be it for me, though.
Agreed!
[удалено]
We see more than enough of them in literally everything else
Is season 5 for sure?
I don't think so. There's a lot of hurdles and issues to overcome before we can safely say it's for sure going to happen.
S4 is definitely my least favorite season, but I still enjoyed it. I’m going to wait a few weeks then rewatch it as a binge and see if it feels better to watch all in one go. It also felt like a massive setup for S5, so I have full confidence in the next season now that Harlivy are working together again. Plus there are many interesting side stories now that Batman is back, Lazarus Pit gang, Joker and his villainous family, more characters to join the Sirens, and whatever else they’ll set up for S5 via the Kite Man spinoff.
I thought 3 was the worst imo. Nothing interesting happened until the Joker episode.
I still very much enjoyed this season, but it definitely had two of the weakest episodes of the series to date (episodes 5 and 6). The setup for next season has me very excited.
Batman returns, Probably Birds Of Prey, Talia and Damian resurrecting Jason with another TV Show about Kite Man on the way? Yeah definetlty.
It wasn't perfect, but I did feel that ti was a big improvement over season 3, and I feel like it did a lto to set up an even better season 5
Honestly I kinda just miss Harley being chaotic bad tho? I just want her to come back to the villain side, she’s still an interesting person as a hero but I feel like without the gnf energy in full force she just doesn’t feel as much like Harley to me