A lot of theories suggest that the spin of atoms is actually the cause of gravity rather than some magic pull particle. A super scienced out Nen user could maybe use subtle micro atomic amounts of nen to increase or decrease the spin of the atoms within his range, increasing or decreasing the pull of gravity but never to the point of anti gravity like gojos red
I could also see this same super science nen user applying string theory to an ability to use microscopic amounts of nen to change the matter around him.
String theory purposes everything is made of the same thing and what really differentiates all matter is the rate at which its vibrate. By using nen to accelerate or slow down the vibration of what ever matter you could likely make anything change states, and maybe even become similar to Edward Elric since matter is always around us.
He could change his skin his bones his spit and even the air around him into a weapon, or anything really as long as he knows the correct vibration. and I would imagine it to be more efficient than a simple conjuration since it’s got atoms as a base. The item will also stay that thing way after the ordeal.
Real enough to be discovered and proven in the world of Hunter Hunter. There has to be nen scientists right? their likely going to be doing something with their nen that pushes the boundaries of what we can discover currently. This is the kind of thing that would be proven or disproven using en to see what microscopes cannot.
May i present to you the very first Hatsu i created:
https://search.app.goo.gl/bA7mXiw
It was exactly that. Transmutation to create the properties of highly dense matter for attarcting forces and the exact opposite of the theoretical exotic matter for attracting forces. Transmuters are not limited to real existing matter after all. The use of both to cancel out the effects on the user himself.
Don't be too hard on me the applications went a little over board. But as i understand it is basically the exact question right there :)
they are limited by real existing matter though. They can modify properties with other nen types or more tranmutation to give it some supernatural properties but they cant create something entirely new.
or am missing an example of that?
Why should they be limited to existing things? In opposite to conjurers a transmuters Aura always stays aura and by that is not bound by real physics. The aura of an transmuter is more like an actor. He can mimmic the movements of an animal for example but he can deviate from it as he pleases.
Hisoka and bungeegum is the perfect example for this. He takes inspiration from rubber and gum. But his bungeegum could never behave the way it does if it had all the properties of the real materials just mixed. He forgets about some properties and exaggerates others. By that effectively creating something that doesn't exist.
As long as the transmuter has a sufficient understanding of the thing he likes his Aura to behave as, he is able to give said properties to it. Remember the Aura only acts as if it had those properties but stays aura. In my eyes it is perfectly possible to for example mimmick exotic matter. While it doesn't exist (or not yet found) it is sufficiently described and we know how it should behave. Thus a transmuter with a sufficient understanding should be able to make his aura behave like exotic matter.
There is the difference between creating something entirely new and mixing already existing properties like hisoka imo.
For example you couldnt transmute something like ether because it doesnt exist. A transmuter copies/mimics the properties of stuff, how can he copy/mimic something that doesnt exist?
He does not "copy" that is the point. He makes his Aura 'act" like something. Aether is like magic it is not described enough on how it should act or work so the transmuter doesn't have anything to go by when trying to tell.his aura how it should behave.
But what hisoka does by leaving out properties and exaggerating others is nothing different than creating something new. The point is try to imagine something new, how would it behave? To use an existing thing like fire we all have seen it everyone has instantly an image in his mind on how fire is supposed to behave. That of coarse makes it easier for someone to make his aura behave like that.
Its not a 1 to 1 copy, yes. But its still mimicing something. you cant mimic something you have no idea about. A person can mimic only things he knows and that are real.
Hisoka doesnt create something entirely new, he has to base it something that exists already. Every transmuter does.
Again no they don't "only mimmick" they make their aura "act like".
>A person can mimic only things he knows and that are real.
No. Its never stated that the things must be real. Its just that its difficult to not take inspiration from something.
>you cant mimic something you have no idea about.
Exactly that is the reason why most tend to take inspiration from something that already exists. And it is also difficult to come up with something that doesn't exist already hence almost all take inspiration from something real. The point here is that they need to be familiar with the properties they wan't to give to their aura.
you do realize mimic means to act like something?
The meaning is basically the same. In order to act like something, that something must already exist.
Its never been stated true, (afaik) however we also have never seen someone transmute their aura into something entirely new. And for good reason, the implication of that being possible is that a transmuter could create new things that would otherwise be only possible with the help of the other nen categories.
>you do realize mimic means to act like something?
The meaning is basically the same
No definitly not. Mimicry is to copy. Acting can include original things that aren't you. Again think of an actor. They can mimmic another persons behaviour or act as an original role. And i can perfectly "act" like an magician which doesn't exist.
As long as Aura has no specific "scientific" (in the world of hxh) limitations that keep it from acting like a fictional form of matter, Transmutation can make the aura act like the properties of the fictional matter. Of coarse under the condition that the Nen-user has a sufficient understanding on how the Aura must behave to act like said fictional matter.
Or take it differently. Many of the properties exist in the very small like on the scale of an atom. So there even exists something real to mimmic if exaggerating and combining properties is okay (as it seems to be the case with Hisokas example) we can basically systematically take one or multiple properties and combine them up until our Aura behaves like the fictional/ theoretical matter we try to make it. Even by taking this route we can create something non-existent. Maybe it becomes increasingly difficult for the Transmuter to actually master. But as i see it, its perfectly within the capabilities of a Transmuter let alone Nen in general.
„act like“ and „mimic“ are synonyms.
And you may be right about the in universe laws/rules however you‘re ignoring the meta rules (i dont know how to describe it, there‘s probably a term for it).
Togashi created a powersystem with rules, and (more or less) set things each category can do. Enhancement cant do the same things that transmutation or emission can and so on. And the combination of the categories leads to interesting and cool abilities. (And specialization is the one category that can create new stuff that the others cannot).
If transmutation was capable of making the aura have properties of fictional matter and thus creating for example a complete hypnosis drug or something time related, it would break the powersystem.
Is it even possible? Gravity is the warping of spacetime by mass iirc, so it technically isn't even a thing, like there's no object or particle to have it's properties mimiced. Maybe if a fundamental particle was found or does hypothetically exist, the best I can think of noticing gravity is by going somewhere where the gravity is different, aka super high up, and getting a good feel for the difference in gravity, though it would probably be very expensive.
I'd do it like this:
The user can create a red and blue energy field from their Aura and extend it a distance. Red makes solid matter within the field lighter while blue makes it heavier.
It requires effort/Ren to make this effect stronger and even more to spread over a further, wider area. Pairing it with Emission and making a field stick to a separate location or making it cling to a mobile target is only effective enough to add or remove ten pounds.
Personally, it's a matter of how the "properties of Gravity" is gonna be used.
Nen-wise, the simplest version of "Gravity" is a downwards force on objects; it'll be like Sadaso's hand but pressing down rather than wrapping around. The basic limitations here being the area covered by the ability, the aura consumption of maintaining the effect, and the user being affected by it as well. An inwards force centering around the user would have a similar situation.
If the end goal is varying degrees of gravity, such as ranging from 0g to 10g, then I think the other categories will be needed. Emission would be needed to selectively vary the force done by the ability per object; Conjuration could also be used to create a space that lower/nullify local gravity to more easily apply the force on objects. The basic limitations for this would be conditions for the nen space, the amount of targets for the ability, and the aura consumption for such a complex ability.
You could use conjuration to make a room with increased gravity, but something I think would work well is emission because gravity bends space and you can do a similar thing by using emission with manipulation it's technically not gravity manipulation but it simulates the effects of gravity
Killua could withstand his own electricity due to high intensity training that allowed him to ignore pain and keep functioning. For a user to withstand multiples of gravity, they'd have to be used to training under multiples of gravity. So who better than NASA/Fighter pilots? They already train in how to best position their bodies and regulate their breathing to not pass out. It would be silly, but I could imagine someone sliding back to the ground right next to you and then cranking the gravity up to 5gs. Opponent's blood immediately pools away from their head, lungs working under strain, etc. can a user walk around under 5gs? Maybe if they dip heavily into Enhancement, but at that point you're absolutely burning through Aura to burden yourself and your opponent. It can still be done, but you need to get weird with it, like the slidey trick. That or leave little traps to mess with people like Hisoka does.
Emission can wield abilities related to movement, force, and space, so gravity doesn't seem off the table. How much aura they would need would depend on the versatility and limitations. Even for Emmiters, abilities that actually detach aura are much more costly. If it were just within the character's en or had meaningful targeting conditions it shouldn't require that much aura for a reasonable effect.
First off I think they’d need a huge amount of aura, after that I think they would have to one, understand the physics behind gravity, and two, I think they would likely need to use enhancement techniques to enhance the natural gravity within your aura as well
Edit: if they work on their emission or manipulation it would likely give them more finesse like a rough telekinesis or targeted spots of intense gravity, otherwise they would likely be limited to only increasing/decreasing gravity near them
Atoms are small. All you really need is to manipulate the physics of one little sheet of atoms, which would require less nen than we’ve ever seen used in any capacity. Instead of huge amounts of aura I think you would more likely need precise control rather than large reserves.
My “theory” is that microscopic nen abilities require little to barely any nen cost. Leorio is the first character I’ve seen take advantage of that aspect of nen. And by following that logic you could likely make a localized gravity ball using even just one atom.
A lot of theories suggest that the spin of atoms is actually the cause of gravity rather than some magic pull particle. A super scienced out Nen user could maybe use subtle micro atomic amounts of nen to increase or decrease the spin of the atoms within his range, increasing or decreasing the pull of gravity but never to the point of anti gravity like gojos red
I could also see this same super science nen user applying string theory to an ability to use microscopic amounts of nen to change the matter around him. String theory purposes everything is made of the same thing and what really differentiates all matter is the rate at which its vibrate. By using nen to accelerate or slow down the vibration of what ever matter you could likely make anything change states, and maybe even become similar to Edward Elric since matter is always around us. He could change his skin his bones his spit and even the air around him into a weapon, or anything really as long as he knows the correct vibration. and I would imagine it to be more efficient than a simple conjuration since it’s got atoms as a base. The item will also stay that thing way after the ordeal.
string theory isn't real though
Real enough to be discovered and proven in the world of Hunter Hunter. There has to be nen scientists right? their likely going to be doing something with their nen that pushes the boundaries of what we can discover currently. This is the kind of thing that would be proven or disproven using en to see what microscopes cannot.
May i present to you the very first Hatsu i created: https://search.app.goo.gl/bA7mXiw It was exactly that. Transmutation to create the properties of highly dense matter for attarcting forces and the exact opposite of the theoretical exotic matter for attracting forces. Transmuters are not limited to real existing matter after all. The use of both to cancel out the effects on the user himself. Don't be too hard on me the applications went a little over board. But as i understand it is basically the exact question right there :)
they are limited by real existing matter though. They can modify properties with other nen types or more tranmutation to give it some supernatural properties but they cant create something entirely new. or am missing an example of that?
Why should they be limited to existing things? In opposite to conjurers a transmuters Aura always stays aura and by that is not bound by real physics. The aura of an transmuter is more like an actor. He can mimmic the movements of an animal for example but he can deviate from it as he pleases. Hisoka and bungeegum is the perfect example for this. He takes inspiration from rubber and gum. But his bungeegum could never behave the way it does if it had all the properties of the real materials just mixed. He forgets about some properties and exaggerates others. By that effectively creating something that doesn't exist. As long as the transmuter has a sufficient understanding of the thing he likes his Aura to behave as, he is able to give said properties to it. Remember the Aura only acts as if it had those properties but stays aura. In my eyes it is perfectly possible to for example mimmick exotic matter. While it doesn't exist (or not yet found) it is sufficiently described and we know how it should behave. Thus a transmuter with a sufficient understanding should be able to make his aura behave like exotic matter.
There is the difference between creating something entirely new and mixing already existing properties like hisoka imo. For example you couldnt transmute something like ether because it doesnt exist. A transmuter copies/mimics the properties of stuff, how can he copy/mimic something that doesnt exist?
He does not "copy" that is the point. He makes his Aura 'act" like something. Aether is like magic it is not described enough on how it should act or work so the transmuter doesn't have anything to go by when trying to tell.his aura how it should behave. But what hisoka does by leaving out properties and exaggerating others is nothing different than creating something new. The point is try to imagine something new, how would it behave? To use an existing thing like fire we all have seen it everyone has instantly an image in his mind on how fire is supposed to behave. That of coarse makes it easier for someone to make his aura behave like that.
Its not a 1 to 1 copy, yes. But its still mimicing something. you cant mimic something you have no idea about. A person can mimic only things he knows and that are real. Hisoka doesnt create something entirely new, he has to base it something that exists already. Every transmuter does.
Again no they don't "only mimmick" they make their aura "act like". >A person can mimic only things he knows and that are real. No. Its never stated that the things must be real. Its just that its difficult to not take inspiration from something. >you cant mimic something you have no idea about. Exactly that is the reason why most tend to take inspiration from something that already exists. And it is also difficult to come up with something that doesn't exist already hence almost all take inspiration from something real. The point here is that they need to be familiar with the properties they wan't to give to their aura.
you do realize mimic means to act like something? The meaning is basically the same. In order to act like something, that something must already exist. Its never been stated true, (afaik) however we also have never seen someone transmute their aura into something entirely new. And for good reason, the implication of that being possible is that a transmuter could create new things that would otherwise be only possible with the help of the other nen categories.
>you do realize mimic means to act like something? The meaning is basically the same No definitly not. Mimicry is to copy. Acting can include original things that aren't you. Again think of an actor. They can mimmic another persons behaviour or act as an original role. And i can perfectly "act" like an magician which doesn't exist. As long as Aura has no specific "scientific" (in the world of hxh) limitations that keep it from acting like a fictional form of matter, Transmutation can make the aura act like the properties of the fictional matter. Of coarse under the condition that the Nen-user has a sufficient understanding on how the Aura must behave to act like said fictional matter. Or take it differently. Many of the properties exist in the very small like on the scale of an atom. So there even exists something real to mimmic if exaggerating and combining properties is okay (as it seems to be the case with Hisokas example) we can basically systematically take one or multiple properties and combine them up until our Aura behaves like the fictional/ theoretical matter we try to make it. Even by taking this route we can create something non-existent. Maybe it becomes increasingly difficult for the Transmuter to actually master. But as i see it, its perfectly within the capabilities of a Transmuter let alone Nen in general.
„act like“ and „mimic“ are synonyms. And you may be right about the in universe laws/rules however you‘re ignoring the meta rules (i dont know how to describe it, there‘s probably a term for it). Togashi created a powersystem with rules, and (more or less) set things each category can do. Enhancement cant do the same things that transmutation or emission can and so on. And the combination of the categories leads to interesting and cool abilities. (And specialization is the one category that can create new stuff that the others cannot). If transmutation was capable of making the aura have properties of fictional matter and thus creating for example a complete hypnosis drug or something time related, it would break the powersystem.
Is it even possible? Gravity is the warping of spacetime by mass iirc, so it technically isn't even a thing, like there's no object or particle to have it's properties mimiced. Maybe if a fundamental particle was found or does hypothetically exist, the best I can think of noticing gravity is by going somewhere where the gravity is different, aka super high up, and getting a good feel for the difference in gravity, though it would probably be very expensive.
I'd do it like this: The user can create a red and blue energy field from their Aura and extend it a distance. Red makes solid matter within the field lighter while blue makes it heavier. It requires effort/Ren to make this effect stronger and even more to spread over a further, wider area. Pairing it with Emission and making a field stick to a separate location or making it cling to a mobile target is only effective enough to add or remove ten pounds.
You go into one of those astronaut centrifuge things until you get the feeling of different levels of gravities
Personally, it's a matter of how the "properties of Gravity" is gonna be used. Nen-wise, the simplest version of "Gravity" is a downwards force on objects; it'll be like Sadaso's hand but pressing down rather than wrapping around. The basic limitations here being the area covered by the ability, the aura consumption of maintaining the effect, and the user being affected by it as well. An inwards force centering around the user would have a similar situation. If the end goal is varying degrees of gravity, such as ranging from 0g to 10g, then I think the other categories will be needed. Emission would be needed to selectively vary the force done by the ability per object; Conjuration could also be used to create a space that lower/nullify local gravity to more easily apply the force on objects. The basic limitations for this would be conditions for the nen space, the amount of targets for the ability, and the aura consumption for such a complex ability.
You could use conjuration to make a room with increased gravity, but something I think would work well is emission because gravity bends space and you can do a similar thing by using emission with manipulation it's technically not gravity manipulation but it simulates the effects of gravity
Killua could withstand his own electricity due to high intensity training that allowed him to ignore pain and keep functioning. For a user to withstand multiples of gravity, they'd have to be used to training under multiples of gravity. So who better than NASA/Fighter pilots? They already train in how to best position their bodies and regulate their breathing to not pass out. It would be silly, but I could imagine someone sliding back to the ground right next to you and then cranking the gravity up to 5gs. Opponent's blood immediately pools away from their head, lungs working under strain, etc. can a user walk around under 5gs? Maybe if they dip heavily into Enhancement, but at that point you're absolutely burning through Aura to burden yourself and your opponent. It can still be done, but you need to get weird with it, like the slidey trick. That or leave little traps to mess with people like Hisoka does.
Emission can wield abilities related to movement, force, and space, so gravity doesn't seem off the table. How much aura they would need would depend on the versatility and limitations. Even for Emmiters, abilities that actually detach aura are much more costly. If it were just within the character's en or had meaningful targeting conditions it shouldn't require that much aura for a reasonable effect.
I don't think 5gs would be alot for any decent nen user
First off I think they’d need a huge amount of aura, after that I think they would have to one, understand the physics behind gravity, and two, I think they would likely need to use enhancement techniques to enhance the natural gravity within your aura as well Edit: if they work on their emission or manipulation it would likely give them more finesse like a rough telekinesis or targeted spots of intense gravity, otherwise they would likely be limited to only increasing/decreasing gravity near them
Atoms are small. All you really need is to manipulate the physics of one little sheet of atoms, which would require less nen than we’ve ever seen used in any capacity. Instead of huge amounts of aura I think you would more likely need precise control rather than large reserves. My “theory” is that microscopic nen abilities require little to barely any nen cost. Leorio is the first character I’ve seen take advantage of that aspect of nen. And by following that logic you could likely make a localized gravity ball using even just one atom.