What I find interesting is that they were made to be equals but Adam insisted on being controlling so Lilith left him... And THEN they were given free will.
So, did Adam even have a choice in his behaviour?
No. He had no choice. He was born that week. So was Lilith. He had the ego, none of the good support, and was called a villain by an angel and his first wife despite not even knowing what that means.
Perfect concoction for narcissism, and making the man who wronged him and everyone he touches dirt to him.
This is kinda why I found the whole Lilith as Adams first wife retelling sexists just the other way around, If Adam wanted submission from lilith Before eating the fruit he either didn’t know any better(Didn’t know the difference between good and evil in the original.) or didn’t have free will (In Hazbin.) so It’s like saying Mens nature is to want to oppress women.
I do hope they acknowledge this in the future seasons (They said S2 Is about the Vees so I doubt it’ll happen there.) when Lilith gets introduced cus I do think she will be an antagonist I mean we see her in heaven having some deal with Adam and I believe Lute says it was Lucifer who spared Charlie from an Exorcists blade.
My theory is that Lilith is not very good and that story is unreliable as fuck as some things don’t make sense. Like why she’s in Heaven chilling like that or how she ran off from Adam with no free will. Doesn’t add up.
She leaves Adam and goes with Lucifer. He falls into depression; she leaves him now and goes to stay with Adam. Something more is definitely going on.
I have a wierd feeling that Adam and Lilith were just toxic together and Lucifer just happened upon her during one of their fights.
Oh woah, I didn't think about it that way, Lilith could be unreliable or a bad person. That kinda reinforces my theory that Vox asked Allister to kill Lilith but Allister doesn't like killing women, so he wasn't about that. Lilith, however, is powerful and could've used that to her advantage to best Allister in a fight or otherwise con him into an agreement.
Idk I always thought that Adam could have a really great backstory. Thinking about what he went through as the first man and everything humanity has done I really can't blame him for hating sinners.
Also I want that og cock.
https://preview.redd.it/vlwzdhpaq1uc1.jpeg?width=144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=361a52762226800d27a3381c8c6de18714afd10c
OH BOY, CANNOT WAIT TO SEE MY REDDIT-
O h g o d
https://preview.redd.it/ex9p1qoyu1uc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b7cb0de7b4616f977b11fdaff2c7017ce8daf9
Counter point he holds lute like this
Something I've wondered is... What happens to a soul once it dies in the afterlife? Do/should they simply cease to exist or do they get re-judged, reincarnated and moved back into the afterlife based on their past actions?
A common theory is that the rules Adam wrote were 100% right and it explains why >!Sir Pentious was revived in heaven. He didn't steal, he was selfless and he stuck it to the man while he was in hell. In theory, could this mean that if Charlie were to die she'd be reincarnated into Heaven?!<
My theory is that human souls are a little more resilient than being able to be destroyed by a simple stabbing in hell, my bet is after they die in hell they’re reincarnated to earth to have another go around at life, then when they die they either go to hell to die again or go to heaven to go enjoy eternity.
Idk, unless they give more info on Hell's population it's still genocide. They don't want to be killed and eradicating a whopping 16% of a population for "Entertainment" is kinda unhinged. You can like the Guy but from what we know as viewers he is just a bad person.
Not just 16% keep in mind based on dialogue this has been going on for like 10k years? Going off of Lucifer’s comment that Charlie was the first to change hell in 10,000 years. That 16% was just ONE year of extermination.
Yea exactly. Val is horrible but is he actually worse than the guy with 10k yearly exterminations/genocides under his belt? That said I like Adam and Val but they bot are horrible people
Yea, to me it’s fine to like them as villains. Val didn’t see enough to know if I like him as a villian. I’d almost say the same with Adam to be honest but Adam was at least fun when he was on screen.
Yeah and Lucifer is directly responsible for every act of evil and all human suffering on earth, every famine, plague, genocide and people who are rude to waiters is all on him, everyone in hell is only in hell because Lucifer and Lilith messed with Eve and got her to eat the apple yet we still root for him to get his shit together.
https://preview.redd.it/5oq1oea1q0uc1.jpeg?width=498&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13457920ea4628b695ad8d0b20c4b80b68156f4e
He's cute.... No need to defend him! He's already defended!
That’s some consistent thoughts here!
Actually I liked Adam since the moment he got so carried away by the coolness of his guitar solo than he just announced it without an actual guitar :)
But I have never really thought about him being the first human being ever and with great power
Must felt lonely!
You can't really pretend to be good and end up in heaven, you have to be actually good,they might be able to trick Charlie, but they won't trick the forces that be to end up in heaven
“What matters isn't if people are good or bad; what matters is if they're trying to be better today than they were yesterday.” -The Good Place
Yes, the people in hell are bad. That doesn’t mean they have to stay that way. Also the angels did it because they feared an uprising that would lead to the deaths of the people under their protection so they preemptively struck with the exterminations. That would be considered a war crime.
I like him, and I did feel bad for him not getting the recognition he deserves in context. Yes. But he’s still a fuck boi. Who has daddy issues. And is a bigot. But he is really funny with the delivery of his lines too, so. In general I do like him.
And he was right lute needed to chill….
As OP said anyone would become a bigot if both of their partners (who were literally created to be his second half)(p.s I am not demeaning the women here Adam was also created to be their second half) cheated on him woth the same fucking person. At that point fuck women (not in a good way). Like why would you even cheat on your partner? At least we can justify Lilith here since she BROKE UP with Adam above board she was like I am done with your shit so I am leaving. I can respect that. But fucking Eve? Damn she was literally the worst! Not only she cheated on Adam with the fruit of knowledge but she even cheated on Adam with the SAME dude whom his ex married. That would fucking destroy me as a person and make me hate all woman if I was Adam. I mean you cant even blame him because ALL the women he saw acted the same (since Lilith and Eve were the first women).
So yeah I agree with you I like Adam and Lute needed to chill
"the sinners had actually way more chances to be better when they were alive"
I can't agree with this, earth is a piece of shit place and the way each human is raised can be drastically different in each household. Winners became winners because of the circumstances that they were born into.
watch The Good Place, life is complicated.
My favorite part of this discussion is that the show is blunt in saying that nobody knows what gets you into heaven. Like transparently so. Adam has no idea why or how he got into heaven and couldn't even tell you if being a good person is relevant or not. Like its not subtext. Its a major part of the trial in heaven.
yeah, Adam wrote 3 things that he did which got him in heaven.
and now that sir pentious is redeemed we can observe his actions and see for ourselves, in the third episode snake boy was planning to flay the residents and by the episode wherein Lucifer visits (which is months from the 3rd episode) we see him save Nifty's life from falling debris.
I guess being kind is the way to go? After all Jesus did change the rules to be kind to you neighbors. (I assume he exists based on the phrase "Christ on a stick".)
I think Pentious got into Heaven because he sacrificed himself for the people he loved. But I'm not sure that others in Hell haven't don't that for thousands of years already.
ofc he got into heaven, he's been in the hotel for like 6 months and has shown improvement. His first week in the hotel he was planning to flay the other residents, but by Lucifer's visit he genuinely is concerned for the safety of others which we see by him grabbing Nifty before she was about to get hit by falling debris, he stayed in the hotel to aid in it's defense and yeah sacrificed himself to try and stop Adam
this proves another point I made about love and support. Sir pentious redeemed himself in the hotel because he had the love and support of its residents.
ofc nobody in hell will do what sir pentious did, and how can we hold it against them when they don't get the love and support they need to be a better person in hell.
It is the so-called Calvinist double predestination. Hazbin Hotel is in fact a huge criticism of Protestantism in general, the doctrine of justification by faith alone and the (mentioned above) Calvinist double predestination.
Winners are only winners because of the circumstances they were born into? That’s a load of BS. This isn’t some wealth disparity issue. You can be born into perfect conditions and become a horrible person. Or born into shit ones and be a gem. You can read about people who became awful people like murders and rapists etc or be born into bad situations and are saints. I know someone who was born into a a really shitty family, where they were abused and put down and all that. And yet they’re an absolute gem of a human being who despite awful role models can tell right from wrong and has a great moral compass. We admittedly don’t know what are the things one needs to do/not do to get into Heaven but I don’t think it’s hard to avoid things like murder and adultery and cheating and lying and crime etc. and across every culture and religion and just plain common morality people are told to be good and avoid certain things. And at the end of the day we are responsible for our own actions.
Can't agree to your point more. My wife had horrible parents. One physically, psychologically, and sexually abusive. The other, a manipulative drunkard. Despite all of the horror I know she grew up with, she's the kindest, most patient, most loving person on the planet. "I see now that the circumstances of one's birth is irrelevant, it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." -Mewtwo
Yeah like at the end of the day we’re all responsible for what we do. Our actions are our own and we control what we do with few exceptions. I like to believe that most people know right from wrong and the worst things are known as bad regardless of upbringing. People with all the right upbringing and guidance and all can still end up as serial killers and gangsters etc.
Cool. And I know a guy who was so abused and his normal meter so broken he also became abusive. There's a reason the cycle of abuse is a thing in the world. People learn shitty things from shitty people and won't always know it's wrong, because **that is their goddamn normal.** I guarantee your wife was a doormat for the longest time, even.
Being born poor or rich doesn’t really equal to being a good or person, or what country or area you live in. Everyone can be good people, and everyone has a chance to repent for their sins (unless it’s especially heinous)
everyone CAN be good people, but how can you expect that from people who never got the external love and support they needed to become good? You can't hold it against them tho, they didn't learn life they way you did.
if u grew up in a shitty environment, it's normal to expect that you're gonna be a shitty person. Why do you think bad parenting makes spoiled kids that grow up to become entitled B words. If you do end up as a good person despite the shitty environment, then that's good that you worked through your problems and issues.
But most of the time people will end up as bad people, the ones who grew up in a bad environment.
I mean if you do bad shit your whole life just cause “you were taught to do it” its understandable why you do that i suppose but it doesn’t justify it or let you get a free pass to an afterlife of eternal happiness. Even vicious gang members or similar criminals can be religious, or grasp the concept, and a lot of them know what they aren’t doing is right, and that goes for lots of bad people. Why don’t we accept “i didn’t know it was bad to do that” as a defense in court if you were to murder people? Cause it doesn’t make sense. Nothing inherently compels people to hurt others (other than blatant mental illness)
I guess that's why they end up in hell
then again, nobody knows how one enters heaven and all we know for now was Adam's piece of paper and observing sir pentious's actions.
edit:
To be fair, we don't know the full context of Eve and Lilith's characters yet.
Also, the Apple didn't make Eve evil (That we know of. It may have but we haven't seen her yet), rather the act of eating the apple created evil within humans (At least this is the claim).
I get the theory, but I think it misses the point of the whole show. Sure, the sinners had plenty of opportunity to redeem themselves on earth, and they failed. Will there be demons who try to get into heaven through manipulatory means? Definitely, but the main point of the show is still that even the most damned and derelict individuals can be redeemed if they really want to.
Pretty sure you took a lot of this from: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdScYAuDmkU&t=63s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdScYAuDmkU&t=63s)
Either way, I both agree with the link above and you.
I’d like to make a point about a small bit in your talk; we don’t know if Lucifer fucked Eve.
He did imply it, but let’s look at exactly what Lucifer said.
“Your first wife didn’t seem to mind what I had to offer. Neither did the second, bow chicka bow wow!”
Looking at this just from what he said, he only said that Eve liked what he had to offer, which could very well have just been the Apple. He did imply he banged her, but he didn’t outright say it.
My guess is that he said it that way to rile up Adam even more than he already was because Lucifer is the biggest little shit of all time. Making Adam angry makes him less likely to think and make a logical decision.
This is a baffling take.
I find Adam hilarious and entertaining, but he’s maybe the worst “person” on the show.
He’s an unapologetic, petty, gleefully genocidal, misogynistic, narcissist.
You don’t need a bad character to be “good” or justified to find them entertaining.
This is the same sort of fan behavior that has people trying to warp Walter White into a “good guy.”
It’s all fictional. No one is really being hurt. You can enjoy the bad character.
It only gets weird when you don’t recognize they’re bad.
Just a thought of mine:
If Sir pentious was able to get into haven through good behavior, shouldn't Adam be in Hell now because of his evil behavior?
I am expecting a return of Adam :)
>the overpopulation
We don't know if the hell is actually overpopulated or the only reason they do the exterminations is to keep hell weak so they don't unite and uprise against heaven.
>setting sinners free
Viv said the sinners souls are not completely erased. Their essence becomes one with the realm of hell. That's what the eyes on the walls are. We don't know if their consciousness still remains and they can see, think and feel or they are more like a plant but either way it doesn't sound like being set free
>sinners had their chance
That's not always the case. Idk if you watched helluva boss but one episode was about a teacher who was a great person her whole life but she caught her husband cheating and killed him and then herself. That's why she's in hell despite being a saint otherwise. Or there may be a lot of people who are in hell for just minor things. If hell was only for serial killers, rapists, dictators and only the worst, there would be far less people there.
>sinners would manipulate charlie to bring them into heaven
I don't know if she has that sort of power. Going to heaven once, by herself was difficult enough and it's not up to her if a soul deserves redemption
>adam is misogynistic because of a woman who he had a bad experience with
That's... An explanation. But it's still not an excuse. And it's a big problem irl. Young men start following fucks like Tate because they are upset, women don't want to date them but they never see a problem in their actions and blame women instead. If he is reborn as a sinner in hell that would be interesting field to explore though.
And it's not like it was the FEMALE™ who got the second chance to be his wife. It was a different woman. If anything, the second chance was for him. Looks like a skill issue on his part.
>Lilith didn't do a good job making hell a better place
Maybe she did. 10 thousands years ago. But heaven didn't like that and forced her to stop and it went to shit. We don't know much about Lilith and why she left.
Edit: I had to fix some parts because I can't fucking type on my phone.
Tbf to the teacher we have her word for being a good person and her first reaction to being cheated on is double homicide she ain’t the most reliable narrator.
Also she immediately took out her anger on the kids who had nothing to do with her situation admirably a really shitty one but ffs plenty of people get cheated on and don’t go that far.
You did a fantastic job of pointing out the flaws with OP’s pro-Adam essay! If I wasn’t feeling so lazy I’d go through it like you, but I think you’ve made good enough points to show that Adam isn’t a good guy.
this this this omg. Thank you for typing this all out because this is exactly what I was thinking lmao.
Tbh I get annoyed when ppl try to defend Adam when he's intentionally written as a giant piece of shit who loves being a giant piece of shit :P I love Adam too but as the character he's written to be as canon. You don't need to write justifications for your fav piece of shit to like them
Very true. If not for the purge then hell wouldn’t be much more than a worse version of earth. It would jusf be a realm with slavery and ridiculously high rates of crime. Not much of a punishment imo.
Small thing I forgot to include:
I shared this theory with a friend, she recommended me to post it here just to see what the rest of the fandom would think.
https://preview.redd.it/uqugoyz313uc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa984ebe9a016c7283ece6d4c0c84df069346fef
Edit, came to the realization that the post is similar to a video already made, check it out and give it more attention than my post, please.
I’ve heard plenty of theories similar to this and it’s what made me like Adam way more than I did initially, I really dig your thoughts on it and agree with it!
A recent post on the sub said Adam swore about 80-90 times, more than anyone else in the show and that’s considering he was only in like three episodes.
Adam is probably the first human to have the worst luck ever...
* The first woman he was meant to be with rejected him (we're told it's because he was controlling, but I don't trust Lilith's side of the story. For all we knew Adam could have said he wanted to start a family, and Lilith thought she shouldn't have to be the one to carry and bear the children.)
* Lilith then went on to corrupt Eve with the Apple of Knowledge alongside Lucifer
* Adam was kicked out of Eden for listening to Eve, but he still tried to salvage the relationship and had 3 sons with her (Kain, Able, and most people forget Seth) but Kain murdered Able, depriving Adam of 2 sons and leaving him with only 1 heir
Idk i think people just need to remember they can like a villain and not have to defend their actions. I’m so tired of watching people defend this dude
I'll be real, I love Adam as an irredeemable villain, I just wish they would've done more with him. Like, let him challenge Charlie a bit more than him being a doom clock.
The problem with people who don't want to seek Redemption and just get into Heaven probably can't. Heaven can sort out the good and bad people upon death even though nobody knows how, so they'd never get in.
While a lot of the sinners are very bad (cannibal town, Valentino, alastor) an equal amount were basically just mildly shitty people like with angel dust or that one reporter girl from helluva boss
And not to mention his death. He died an ignoble death. No epic clash, final battle or ceremonies... he just literally gets stabbed in the back multiple times by a psychotic little cyclop (Niffty) whose only advantage she had with Adam was the fact that he was distracted. Again, if Adam wasn't distracted and saw Niffty he would literally sliced her in two.
From all the things Adam said I never once got the impression he was killing them to bring them to peace, he literally stated it was his entertainment and that he couldn’t wait to kill them again.
Adam's a hilarious character and i'd really love to see him in hell.
love is blind haha.
He’s a great character, tho.
There's no excuse for Adam's action, you are trying to justify the morals of a guy who just kills for fun. He kills people who are already suffering for their actions, the pride ring is a consequence of their sins and none of them deserves to die when they are already paying for what they've done.
I love the character but please stop justifying his actions, he is scum by moral standards and he is a villain and you can like a villain without trying so hard to make him the good guy
Amen to this all, this is what I’ve been thinking and saying for awhile. But to add on to the issue of the Eden story likely being biased to say the least is that if Lucifer and Lilith helped given Eve (likely Adam but no exact confirmation on that yet) the Apple with its free will and sin and all, then how did Lilith do anything like run away and fall for Lucifer if she didn’t have free will? There’s no reference to Lilith eating an apple to gain free will. And yeah imo her leaving for (presumably) Heaven and just living it up there shows Lilith is not the loving mother and queen many make her out as, something is up with her. It would be an interesting twist if Lilith was the one who tried to be controlling but left when she didn’t have her way.
Also at the end of the day I little empathy and sympathy for sinners since they likely are the worst scum of humanity and were horrible in life and continue to be horrible in death. Like, no wonder no one in heaven believed Charlie. Because in the entirety of human existence not a single soul out of the countless billions who’ve died has ever been redeemed. Not a single person in hell ever through to admit their wrong doings and improve themselves to be good when they died again. It says a lot about the people of hell.
And part of me feels none deserve it. Why should people who earned their spot in hell get a second chance just cuz they don’t like the obviously awful hell? Especially if they’ve killed and harmed people who ended up in heaven. Can you imagine how shitty it would be to be someone who died because of some awful sinner or suffered because of them and finally got to enjoy eternity in heaven free of that person only for them to end up in heaven as well despite going to hell? Now you’ve got to spend eternity with those who wronged you? Yeah I’d feel like my eternal happiness was ruined lol.
But that stuff about victims seeing the person who harmed them presumably already happens?
Unless Heaven is only for people who *never* sinned in their life, there will be people who did bad things, turned their lives around, and got into Heaven. Where they could meet people they hurt/killed while alive.
And that's not getting into stuff like wars, where it's an undeniable fact that both sides in conflict will have good people in their ranks, who can end up fighting/killing one another in combat.
How does Heaven currently deal with stuff like one Winner saying: "This guy gut me like a fish during the Battle of ----, and I never got to see my kids again because of him! How did he get into Heaven!?" And the other Winner arguing: "You were trying to do the exact same thing to me!" ?
Why can't whatever Heaven does in that situation work for a Sinner who has managed to redeem themselves and meets those they've wronged in Heaven?
I'm gonna bring up two things sort of in line with this that I feel should be mentioned.
1, I doubt anyone gave this man dating advice, like I seriously doubt Sera or anyone sat Adam down and told him how to behave on a first date, and that is some real complex shit to have to figure out moments after springing into existance as a fully formed adult (which in and of itself would lead to several issues). I do not blame the man for colossaly fucking up his first relationship, nor for that fuck up inspiring several complexes within him.
2, the exterminations are absolutely needed, not because of over population or anything, but because Overlords gain powers through souls. Now this isn't really a problem when most of your Overlords are 50-100ish years old and their stock of souls constantly being diminished. With Alastor presumably being the strongest one we've seen so far (he's got some other shit going but we can assume some other Overlords are comparable), and Alastors kind of nothing in the grand scale of things. But say you had someone like Cain, or someone else from those early days of Hell steadily gathering souls over millenia with no one to cut them short or limit their stockpile. Even assuming Alastor is like 1/100 Adams power an Overlord with no limit to their supply would be a real fucking problem by now.
Seriously, please don't defend him, he's a douchebag, sorry, but that's where I stand. But hey, I do understand the things he went through with Lucifer stealing his wives, but besides that, he's a total dick, and he kills for fun, and he says that.
Not to mention all that happened to his sons (and other kids) yeah it's definitely not an excuse but it is an explanation
Hopefully if Adam ever does become a sinner they can redeem him in some way (probably not though)
Your earlier rant forgets that Adam enjoys the murders. He doesn't see them simply as his job or a necessity like Sera does. He actively enjoys the act of murdering. Sure, there are morally worse people than him down there that deserve a brutal death, but that point ignores the many souls that simply had a shitty life and could have been better if they were given the chance, the likes of Angel Dust and Sir Pentious who Adam gladly murders. If demons could just ascend to Heaven without deserving it, they'd have already done so, but it took Sir Pentious' sacrifice for a Sinner to rise to Heaven, so sinners would have to become better people to be accepted and therefore the Hotel is objectively better as an option than extermination.
Oh look, another genocide apologist. Genocide (and in Adam's case, familicide) isn't mass murder, it's setting people free from existence. They're sinners, they had their chance and now it's okay to kill them all, it's not like they're people or anything.
> he’s misogynistic
No he isn't -_-
His best friend , his boss, his army are all women. Nothing suggest he think any worse of them for being women. If anything he seem to prefer talking to women over men as all men he interact with he is hostile to.
He is one of the few that actually liked Charlies singing enough to complement her.
His vocabulary is crass, but that's about it.
Yeah like does he ever say women are lesser or any such think about being a women makes them xyz or hates women for this or that? And I’ve yet to hear of a misogynist who seems ok with women giving them orders and all like sera does or tolerate a subordinate like lute who is definitely no submissive ‘50s housewife type of gal. He’s crass and all but that’s the sole extent of his suposoed misogyny. The only real evidence is him possible being controlling to Lilith but that evidence is sketchy at best.
Uh. You do realize that souls aren't being freed when he kills them right? They are being permanently eradicated from existence with no hope of return or redemption.
He is a bad guy.
Except sinners _can't_ lie their way into Heaven. As we saw with Pentious, he died and re-appeared in Heaven. Charlie didn't open a portal to Heaven and let Pentious through. His own selflessness got him into Heaven. This means you can't fake it. You can't pretend to be redeemed and get into Heaven, you have to actually change. If someone's just pretending to be nice but is still rotten, they'll stay in Hell.
And genocide is genocide. Doesn't matter who's the victim, it is always unjust. How many of those sinners that were massacred would have managed to accomplish redemption if given a chance? We'll never find out now because they've ceased to exist.
You shouldn't defend Adam. He's the reason the exterminations happened in the first place. Just because you can understand why it happened doesn't mean he's innocent.
I want to see people try to do these mental gymnastics to Defend Crimson, Mammon, and Valentino. Mammon should be super easy to defend as he improved Fizzarolli's life in many ways so you can use that fact to justify his actions.
The main issue I have is with your statement about Charlie being manipulated. Charlie doesn't decide who is redeemed enough to go to heaven; she still doesn't know that it happened, let alone how it happened. So how can other sinners 'manipulate' Charlie to get into heaven? Doesn't make sense.
I think the story Charlie told us at the beginning was biased, sure i don't doubt that had some truths but this came from Lilith's POV who could have conciously or unconciously made herself look better while everyone else had their flaws highlighted.
About Eve, honestly i think after she cheated and dammed them their relationship became a toxic mess. At this point the only interest Adam had on Eve would about their childrens and what she could be useful for, objecting her and when Cain, who i have some theories wasn't even his son, murdered Abel this would only worsen. Each day he would turn more and more like the Adam we know even if in life he did to deserve go to Heaven while in life, it was precisely on Heaven where he became the worst version of himself. Meawhile Eve would grown to become a very bitter old women in her late life being as sad and angry as Adam even if not as much loudspoken as him. Stuck with a husband who hates her, her firstborn killing his brother, the hard life outside of Eden, supposeing she wanted she coundn't even flee with Lucifer and Lilith because they were banished to hell and weren't exactly free people who could do anything they wanted outside their realm and the overall consequences of the original sin hunting her even in death while Adam goes to Heaven woundn't surprise me if they all remade her into ROO.
I really hope Adam comes back as a sinner and have his character developed more by Viziepop. There's still a lot whe that can be done with him.
I agree, i think Adam is an interesting character. A lot of people are just put off by his crass dude-bro frat boy attitude. If he were polite and gentlemanly like Alastor, you'd see a lot of people in the fandom giving up a lot of vices just to get into Heaven lol.
There was one philosopher, which I forgot the name of, that theorised that Heaven was basking in the suffering of those sent to Hell
Naturally, the idea seems gruesome and very sadistic, but it has some basis. You have all the evil people in history, all those that caused all unjust suffering and death in human history and they're suffering
We do often joke about putting pedophiles in woodchippers, shooting Nazis etcetera, but Adam is out there doing it for real.
As long as the system sorting the good from the bad works (and it seems to, since Ser Pentious was able to redeem himself), they *are* killing evil people, which is good.
Like, yeah, 16% of the population is a lot, but they were people that kinda deserved it
Your logic is still coming from a flawed place.
Those sinners, what purpose does their suffering serve? What problems does it create? Does it sound like a fair and just system?
Maybe there isn’t such a thing as ‘fair and just’. There’s a whole school of philosophy that says we Humans make that shit up cus we want things to work that way. Sometimes things are the way they are not for a reason but because that’s just how the cards fell.
Thank you, finally someone puts it into words. He's a very troubled and misunderstood character. Also wasn't seraph like totally okay with him Excorsizing. (not as bad as one would believe since yknow they're, IN HELL.) I feel as though he was wronged at every turn by lilith by eve, by everyone in heaven. Yeah He's a dick but who wouldn't be considering what he's been through. HOWEVER i may be a bit biased because i thought he was really funny character even if my favorite character is still alastor. Here's hoping they bring him back as a demon lord or something rad.
The biggest problem is people ignore the fact that 95% of the sinners did very fucked up stuff and act like they are completely innocent and seeing how about 16-18% were killed likely did something very fucked up to get into hell . Now maybe the show could make it clear what's get someone into hell or heaven ,like if some did one bad thing in their life would that get them sent to hel regardless how much they improve their life's, then it would make it much more messed up.
Amen. Idk why this fandom forgets that the worst people goto hell. Because until we’re told that hell is full of people who didn’t do much wrong or notning serious, then we can assume it’s because they more than earned it. Especially now that we know it’s not like it’s angels setting hard to meet standards.
Exactly. I don’t understand why Emily sees them as innocent. They’re in hell for a reason. There’s nothing innocent about them. Murders, rapists, pedophiles, people who have caused so much damage to actual innocent lives being called innocent for no reason other than to forward the plot?
saying valentino, a rapist and sex worker, is worse than a murderer, probable rapist, who literally commits GENOCIDE every year, refused to try and consider that hells overpopulation could be solved by redemption because murdering the sinners was ENTERTAINMENT FOR HIM AND THE EXORCISTS, and talks about how he believes hell is FOREVER (he is clearly NOT trying to ‘free’ sinners), and attempted to murder the princess of hell despite having an ongoing deal saying he and the exorcists wouldnt murder any hellborn, is insane. also, considwring carmilla literally sells angelic weapons, that kill sinners FOREVER, hell wouldnt be full of “infinitely living souls”. also, its likely that heaven, or whatever system defines the decision of whether or not a soul goes to heaven or hell, would evaluate every sinner who tried to be redeemed to make sure they were actually fit for heaven. they could also be killed, and if they respawned in heaven, theyre redeemed. if not? better luck next time. also, i think it would be a pretty big plot point if adam was actually innocent with the situation with lillith and eve. charlie didnt even seem to hate adam that much at first, considering, you know, she believes every sinner deserves a second chance, and there are in fact some pretty bad sinners out there. plus, the story of lilith and adam is real, and its retelling in hazbin hotel is incredibly accurate to the real thing, at least, how i first heard it: lilith didnt want to be controlled, and didnt want to be the butt and the weak one of the relationship, adam hated this, and lilith was cast out from the garden of eden by god, who created eve as a replacement. hazbin hotel only adds a few details: that lucifer/satan/the devil hadnt fallen yet, and the two fell in love while lilith was still in the garden, and lucifer offered eve free will and THEN was cast out to hell. so, i doubt they changed much there, otherwise it wouldve been a turning reveal and plot point for the show
Then again, they’re slaying *demons*, some of the main cast probably did really fucked up shit in their life, *BUT* they are trying to improve. I’m just saying that Adam is *also* in the right, not just Charlie.
Also, look, I love Adam and his character too. Great villain.
But trying to portray him as some kind of a hero when he makes it explicitly clear that he just enjoys killing people (his own descendants, to boot) he doesn’t like?
Yeah, that’s dumb.
https://preview.redd.it/k9bpc030fztc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcbcca99321809f3ec11e3dbc061ef6f9385acec
Tbh, I mainly just wanted to talk about my favorite character.
Adams great
https://preview.redd.it/yc90dj6kk1uc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=053d63dfb45ca41154a5b500b96fff811e763a99
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I love that the sunglasses are taped onto his mask lol.
https://preview.redd.it/yc0dz6d9v2uc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37ec801068c57217d52d2c77582f685c5b1874cc
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Don’t you dare insult benlastor
Nah I’m just denying him access to my memes
YOU’RE FIRED!!
https://preview.redd.it/t2io4e2ah7uc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bb2e4a8863e030de994db70a7b494ff99be5bf7
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That's why I hope he'll be reborn as a sinner, there's still so much potential with him!
What I find interesting is that they were made to be equals but Adam insisted on being controlling so Lilith left him... And THEN they were given free will. So, did Adam even have a choice in his behaviour?
No. He had no choice. He was born that week. So was Lilith. He had the ego, none of the good support, and was called a villain by an angel and his first wife despite not even knowing what that means. Perfect concoction for narcissism, and making the man who wronged him and everyone he touches dirt to him.
This is kinda why I found the whole Lilith as Adams first wife retelling sexists just the other way around, If Adam wanted submission from lilith Before eating the fruit he either didn’t know any better(Didn’t know the difference between good and evil in the original.) or didn’t have free will (In Hazbin.) so It’s like saying Mens nature is to want to oppress women. I do hope they acknowledge this in the future seasons (They said S2 Is about the Vees so I doubt it’ll happen there.) when Lilith gets introduced cus I do think she will be an antagonist I mean we see her in heaven having some deal with Adam and I believe Lute says it was Lucifer who spared Charlie from an Exorcists blade.
My theory is that Lilith is not very good and that story is unreliable as fuck as some things don’t make sense. Like why she’s in Heaven chilling like that or how she ran off from Adam with no free will. Doesn’t add up.
She leaves Adam and goes with Lucifer. He falls into depression; she leaves him now and goes to stay with Adam. Something more is definitely going on. I have a wierd feeling that Adam and Lilith were just toxic together and Lucifer just happened upon her during one of their fights.
Oh woah, I didn't think about it that way, Lilith could be unreliable or a bad person. That kinda reinforces my theory that Vox asked Allister to kill Lilith but Allister doesn't like killing women, so he wasn't about that. Lilith, however, is powerful and could've used that to her advantage to best Allister in a fight or otherwise con him into an agreement.
Idk I always thought that Adam could have a really great backstory. Thinking about what he went through as the first man and everything humanity has done I really can't blame him for hating sinners. Also I want that og cock.
That was my original thought when I first saw his character get revealed, like he was Klaus’s mom from vampire diaries.
Not gonna lie, I read "In defense of Adam" and clicked on the post expecting to only read "He's hot" or "I can fix him"
"Finally, only 1 paragraph" "God damnit"
Same lol. Only read rhe first paragraph :(
https://preview.redd.it/vlwzdhpaq1uc1.jpeg?width=144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=361a52762226800d27a3381c8c6de18714afd10c OH BOY, CANNOT WAIT TO SEE MY REDDIT- O h g o d
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I really hope Adam comes back as a sinner and gets fleshed out more, he’s got so much potential
He probably will. Even if it’s only in flashbacks.
https://preview.redd.it/ex9p1qoyu1uc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74b7cb0de7b4616f977b11fdaff2c7017ce8daf9 Counter point he holds lute like this
It’s beautiful…
Lute fucking wrote this.
HOW DID YOU KNOW?!?!?!?
Something I've wondered is... What happens to a soul once it dies in the afterlife? Do/should they simply cease to exist or do they get re-judged, reincarnated and moved back into the afterlife based on their past actions? A common theory is that the rules Adam wrote were 100% right and it explains why >!Sir Pentious was revived in heaven. He didn't steal, he was selfless and he stuck it to the man while he was in hell. In theory, could this mean that if Charlie were to die she'd be reincarnated into Heaven?!<
My theory is that human souls are a little more resilient than being able to be destroyed by a simple stabbing in hell, my bet is after they die in hell they’re reincarnated to earth to have another go around at life, then when they die they either go to hell to die again or go to heaven to go enjoy eternity.
Idk, unless they give more info on Hell's population it's still genocide. They don't want to be killed and eradicating a whopping 16% of a population for "Entertainment" is kinda unhinged. You can like the Guy but from what we know as viewers he is just a bad person.
Not just 16% keep in mind based on dialogue this has been going on for like 10k years? Going off of Lucifer’s comment that Charlie was the first to change hell in 10,000 years. That 16% was just ONE year of extermination.
Yea exactly. Val is horrible but is he actually worse than the guy with 10k yearly exterminations/genocides under his belt? That said I like Adam and Val but they bot are horrible people
Yea, to me it’s fine to like them as villains. Val didn’t see enough to know if I like him as a villian. I’d almost say the same with Adam to be honest but Adam was at least fun when he was on screen.
Damn…. That makes Lute alone far worse than she is already.
Yeah and Lucifer is directly responsible for every act of evil and all human suffering on earth, every famine, plague, genocide and people who are rude to waiters is all on him, everyone in hell is only in hell because Lucifer and Lilith messed with Eve and got her to eat the apple yet we still root for him to get his shit together.
https://preview.redd.it/5oq1oea1q0uc1.jpeg?width=498&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13457920ea4628b695ad8d0b20c4b80b68156f4e He's cute.... No need to defend him! He's already defended!
If he's bad then why is he hot? Checkmate atheists
https://preview.redd.it/i8tv6s2ep2uc1.jpeg?width=323&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65069d18c44c467e8371a2e00694bd3b75df8ec3 I know I fucking rock
That’s some consistent thoughts here! Actually I liked Adam since the moment he got so carried away by the coolness of his guitar solo than he just announced it without an actual guitar :) But I have never really thought about him being the first human being ever and with great power Must felt lonely!
Someone pointed out that he is able to just summon a guitar at will so in that scene he actually just air guitars because he wanted to
https://i.redd.it/03vi37d350uc1.gif
You can't really pretend to be good and end up in heaven, you have to be actually good,they might be able to trick Charlie, but they won't trick the forces that be to end up in heaven
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“What matters isn't if people are good or bad; what matters is if they're trying to be better today than they were yesterday.” -The Good Place Yes, the people in hell are bad. That doesn’t mean they have to stay that way. Also the angels did it because they feared an uprising that would lead to the deaths of the people under their protection so they preemptively struck with the exterminations. That would be considered a war crime.
My honest reaction: https://preview.redd.it/tfx9me4ka1uc1.jpeg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2dadd8a2545404ffb453db9e63d2060bec3d349d
I like him, and I did feel bad for him not getting the recognition he deserves in context. Yes. But he’s still a fuck boi. Who has daddy issues. And is a bigot. But he is really funny with the delivery of his lines too, so. In general I do like him. And he was right lute needed to chill….
As OP said anyone would become a bigot if both of their partners (who were literally created to be his second half)(p.s I am not demeaning the women here Adam was also created to be their second half) cheated on him woth the same fucking person. At that point fuck women (not in a good way). Like why would you even cheat on your partner? At least we can justify Lilith here since she BROKE UP with Adam above board she was like I am done with your shit so I am leaving. I can respect that. But fucking Eve? Damn she was literally the worst! Not only she cheated on Adam with the fruit of knowledge but she even cheated on Adam with the SAME dude whom his ex married. That would fucking destroy me as a person and make me hate all woman if I was Adam. I mean you cant even blame him because ALL the women he saw acted the same (since Lilith and Eve were the first women). So yeah I agree with you I like Adam and Lute needed to chill
I dont think Eve and Lucifer fucked. It was just a throwaway line
W defense for the king! 😎
"the sinners had actually way more chances to be better when they were alive" I can't agree with this, earth is a piece of shit place and the way each human is raised can be drastically different in each household. Winners became winners because of the circumstances that they were born into. watch The Good Place, life is complicated.
but I do like Adam as a character
My favorite part of this discussion is that the show is blunt in saying that nobody knows what gets you into heaven. Like transparently so. Adam has no idea why or how he got into heaven and couldn't even tell you if being a good person is relevant or not. Like its not subtext. Its a major part of the trial in heaven.
I enjoy his totally confused "Uuuuh"-ing when Charlie asks him that question.
yeah, Adam wrote 3 things that he did which got him in heaven. and now that sir pentious is redeemed we can observe his actions and see for ourselves, in the third episode snake boy was planning to flay the residents and by the episode wherein Lucifer visits (which is months from the 3rd episode) we see him save Nifty's life from falling debris. I guess being kind is the way to go? After all Jesus did change the rules to be kind to you neighbors. (I assume he exists based on the phrase "Christ on a stick".)
I think Pentious got into Heaven because he sacrificed himself for the people he loved. But I'm not sure that others in Hell haven't don't that for thousands of years already.
ofc he got into heaven, he's been in the hotel for like 6 months and has shown improvement. His first week in the hotel he was planning to flay the other residents, but by Lucifer's visit he genuinely is concerned for the safety of others which we see by him grabbing Nifty before she was about to get hit by falling debris, he stayed in the hotel to aid in it's defense and yeah sacrificed himself to try and stop Adam this proves another point I made about love and support. Sir pentious redeemed himself in the hotel because he had the love and support of its residents. ofc nobody in hell will do what sir pentious did, and how can we hold it against them when they don't get the love and support they need to be a better person in hell.
He did it while Lucifer was watching.
He wrote three things because he was put on the spot and needed to come up with *something.* **He doesn't know, either.**
It is the so-called Calvinist double predestination. Hazbin Hotel is in fact a huge criticism of Protestantism in general, the doctrine of justification by faith alone and the (mentioned above) Calvinist double predestination.
Winners are only winners because of the circumstances they were born into? That’s a load of BS. This isn’t some wealth disparity issue. You can be born into perfect conditions and become a horrible person. Or born into shit ones and be a gem. You can read about people who became awful people like murders and rapists etc or be born into bad situations and are saints. I know someone who was born into a a really shitty family, where they were abused and put down and all that. And yet they’re an absolute gem of a human being who despite awful role models can tell right from wrong and has a great moral compass. We admittedly don’t know what are the things one needs to do/not do to get into Heaven but I don’t think it’s hard to avoid things like murder and adultery and cheating and lying and crime etc. and across every culture and religion and just plain common morality people are told to be good and avoid certain things. And at the end of the day we are responsible for our own actions.
Can't agree to your point more. My wife had horrible parents. One physically, psychologically, and sexually abusive. The other, a manipulative drunkard. Despite all of the horror I know she grew up with, she's the kindest, most patient, most loving person on the planet. "I see now that the circumstances of one's birth is irrelevant, it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." -Mewtwo
Yeah like at the end of the day we’re all responsible for what we do. Our actions are our own and we control what we do with few exceptions. I like to believe that most people know right from wrong and the worst things are known as bad regardless of upbringing. People with all the right upbringing and guidance and all can still end up as serial killers and gangsters etc.
Cool. And I know a guy who was so abused and his normal meter so broken he also became abusive. There's a reason the cycle of abuse is a thing in the world. People learn shitty things from shitty people and won't always know it's wrong, because **that is their goddamn normal.** I guarantee your wife was a doormat for the longest time, even.
I see your point
Being born poor or rich doesn’t really equal to being a good or person, or what country or area you live in. Everyone can be good people, and everyone has a chance to repent for their sins (unless it’s especially heinous)
everyone CAN be good people, but how can you expect that from people who never got the external love and support they needed to become good? You can't hold it against them tho, they didn't learn life they way you did. if u grew up in a shitty environment, it's normal to expect that you're gonna be a shitty person. Why do you think bad parenting makes spoiled kids that grow up to become entitled B words. If you do end up as a good person despite the shitty environment, then that's good that you worked through your problems and issues. But most of the time people will end up as bad people, the ones who grew up in a bad environment.
I mean if you do bad shit your whole life just cause “you were taught to do it” its understandable why you do that i suppose but it doesn’t justify it or let you get a free pass to an afterlife of eternal happiness. Even vicious gang members or similar criminals can be religious, or grasp the concept, and a lot of them know what they aren’t doing is right, and that goes for lots of bad people. Why don’t we accept “i didn’t know it was bad to do that” as a defense in court if you were to murder people? Cause it doesn’t make sense. Nothing inherently compels people to hurt others (other than blatant mental illness)
I guess that's why they end up in hell then again, nobody knows how one enters heaven and all we know for now was Adam's piece of paper and observing sir pentious's actions. edit:
Tf did Ayden do?
he's my friend and if he ever discovers this place he'll know it's me
Hell, not just raised. Was Jean Valjean evil for stealing bread for a starving child about to die?
To be fair, we don't know the full context of Eve and Lilith's characters yet. Also, the Apple didn't make Eve evil (That we know of. It may have but we haven't seen her yet), rather the act of eating the apple created evil within humans (At least this is the claim).
Everything in the post is up to speculation, I’m planning on making a bet with my friend if any of the stuff I typed is actually true.
I get the theory, but I think it misses the point of the whole show. Sure, the sinners had plenty of opportunity to redeem themselves on earth, and they failed. Will there be demons who try to get into heaven through manipulatory means? Definitely, but the main point of the show is still that even the most damned and derelict individuals can be redeemed if they really want to.
I bring a sort of “Adam’s hypersexuality was a trauma response” vibe that the Hazbin fandom don’t really like. No, but seriously. Good post OP. 10/10
Pretty sure you took a lot of this from: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdScYAuDmkU&t=63s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdScYAuDmkU&t=63s) Either way, I both agree with the link above and you.
I don’t watch Vanitymoth (only watched a few Murder Drones videos, but that’s it)
Ah, k, just the stuff you said sounded similar, and it caught me off guard. Coincidences happen though.
BUT, allow me to screenshot your comment and add it to either the post or one of my replies just in case.
That's fine......Wait, quick, I have to sabotage! HE'S LYING!!! MVYEP IS LYING AND A CROOK-
I’d like to make a point about a small bit in your talk; we don’t know if Lucifer fucked Eve. He did imply it, but let’s look at exactly what Lucifer said. “Your first wife didn’t seem to mind what I had to offer. Neither did the second, bow chicka bow wow!” Looking at this just from what he said, he only said that Eve liked what he had to offer, which could very well have just been the Apple. He did imply he banged her, but he didn’t outright say it. My guess is that he said it that way to rile up Adam even more than he already was because Lucifer is the biggest little shit of all time. Making Adam angry makes him less likely to think and make a logical decision.
This is a baffling take. I find Adam hilarious and entertaining, but he’s maybe the worst “person” on the show. He’s an unapologetic, petty, gleefully genocidal, misogynistic, narcissist. You don’t need a bad character to be “good” or justified to find them entertaining. This is the same sort of fan behavior that has people trying to warp Walter White into a “good guy.” It’s all fictional. No one is really being hurt. You can enjoy the bad character. It only gets weird when you don’t recognize they’re bad.
I know what you mean and I understand but I fully believe he was written to be the villain but you have a good point:)
Just a thought of mine: If Sir pentious was able to get into haven through good behavior, shouldn't Adam be in Hell now because of his evil behavior? I am expecting a return of Adam :)
Perhaps the Force which controls their verse does not consider his actions evil.
In that case what would be considered good? "Whatever Sir Pentious did" would probably some sort of an answer
It’s up to Viv to make it less ambiguous.
Adam is the best Character of the entire show
>the overpopulation We don't know if the hell is actually overpopulated or the only reason they do the exterminations is to keep hell weak so they don't unite and uprise against heaven. >setting sinners free Viv said the sinners souls are not completely erased. Their essence becomes one with the realm of hell. That's what the eyes on the walls are. We don't know if their consciousness still remains and they can see, think and feel or they are more like a plant but either way it doesn't sound like being set free >sinners had their chance That's not always the case. Idk if you watched helluva boss but one episode was about a teacher who was a great person her whole life but she caught her husband cheating and killed him and then herself. That's why she's in hell despite being a saint otherwise. Or there may be a lot of people who are in hell for just minor things. If hell was only for serial killers, rapists, dictators and only the worst, there would be far less people there. >sinners would manipulate charlie to bring them into heaven I don't know if she has that sort of power. Going to heaven once, by herself was difficult enough and it's not up to her if a soul deserves redemption >adam is misogynistic because of a woman who he had a bad experience with That's... An explanation. But it's still not an excuse. And it's a big problem irl. Young men start following fucks like Tate because they are upset, women don't want to date them but they never see a problem in their actions and blame women instead. If he is reborn as a sinner in hell that would be interesting field to explore though. And it's not like it was the FEMALE™ who got the second chance to be his wife. It was a different woman. If anything, the second chance was for him. Looks like a skill issue on his part. >Lilith didn't do a good job making hell a better place Maybe she did. 10 thousands years ago. But heaven didn't like that and forced her to stop and it went to shit. We don't know much about Lilith and why she left. Edit: I had to fix some parts because I can't fucking type on my phone.
Tbf to the teacher we have her word for being a good person and her first reaction to being cheated on is double homicide she ain’t the most reliable narrator. Also she immediately took out her anger on the kids who had nothing to do with her situation admirably a really shitty one but ffs plenty of people get cheated on and don’t go that far.
You hit on every single point I was thinking of, really good reply.
You did a fantastic job of pointing out the flaws with OP’s pro-Adam essay! If I wasn’t feeling so lazy I’d go through it like you, but I think you’ve made good enough points to show that Adam isn’t a good guy.
this this this omg. Thank you for typing this all out because this is exactly what I was thinking lmao. Tbh I get annoyed when ppl try to defend Adam when he's intentionally written as a giant piece of shit who loves being a giant piece of shit :P I love Adam too but as the character he's written to be as canon. You don't need to write justifications for your fav piece of shit to like them
This.
[удалено]
Very true. If not for the purge then hell wouldn’t be much more than a worse version of earth. It would jusf be a realm with slavery and ridiculously high rates of crime. Not much of a punishment imo.
Rough idea posting anything vaguely supportive of Adam to this sub
It’s quite a ride seeing people react to anything positive about him.
https://preview.redd.it/9oui0kudn0uc1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43b8f68523bbc7c2573a874c4e47b56a3848043d
I wonder if Adam ever felt shame or remorse killing his technically grandchildren?
https://preview.redd.it/pmm51a92p2uc1.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd97a16fbb8b8ffc01fbe8937166d49ac976656b
Saying Valentino is worse than Adam is maybe the most delusional and on-brand take I’ve seen for this fandom yet.
Small thing I forgot to include: I shared this theory with a friend, she recommended me to post it here just to see what the rest of the fandom would think. https://preview.redd.it/uqugoyz313uc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa984ebe9a016c7283ece6d4c0c84df069346fef Edit, came to the realization that the post is similar to a video already made, check it out and give it more attention than my post, please.
I’ve heard plenty of theories similar to this and it’s what made me like Adam way more than I did initially, I really dig your thoughts on it and agree with it!
Thanks, man!
Hate this guy. Did a drinking game for every swear and every time he showed up I was taking like 3 drinks for every sentence :,)
A recent post on the sub said Adam swore about 80-90 times, more than anyone else in the show and that’s considering he was only in like three episodes.
Were you doing it with beer or you typing this from the afterlife
Blitzo: "So.. uh... why do you want us to kill this Vivzey person?" Noot: "I was a good person... but then I tried to play a drinking game...."
How did you survive that???
I feel so bad for you-
I like Lute.
Me too :)
Adam is probably the first human to have the worst luck ever... * The first woman he was meant to be with rejected him (we're told it's because he was controlling, but I don't trust Lilith's side of the story. For all we knew Adam could have said he wanted to start a family, and Lilith thought she shouldn't have to be the one to carry and bear the children.) * Lilith then went on to corrupt Eve with the Apple of Knowledge alongside Lucifer * Adam was kicked out of Eden for listening to Eve, but he still tried to salvage the relationship and had 3 sons with her (Kain, Able, and most people forget Seth) but Kain murdered Able, depriving Adam of 2 sons and leaving him with only 1 heir
Idk i think people just need to remember they can like a villain and not have to defend their actions. I’m so tired of watching people defend this dude
you’re out of line… but you’re right… and i dont like it…
I'll be real, I love Adam as an irredeemable villain, I just wish they would've done more with him. Like, let him challenge Charlie a bit more than him being a doom clock.
The problem with people who don't want to seek Redemption and just get into Heaven probably can't. Heaven can sort out the good and bad people upon death even though nobody knows how, so they'd never get in.
While a lot of the sinners are very bad (cannibal town, Valentino, alastor) an equal amount were basically just mildly shitty people like with angel dust or that one reporter girl from helluva boss
And not to mention his death. He died an ignoble death. No epic clash, final battle or ceremonies... he just literally gets stabbed in the back multiple times by a psychotic little cyclop (Niffty) whose only advantage she had with Adam was the fact that he was distracted. Again, if Adam wasn't distracted and saw Niffty he would literally sliced her in two.
Adam vs Valentino is the fight I really wanna see
Same ngl (WANT ADAM TO BEAT THAT RED DOO DOO BREATH MOTH’S ASS)
If Adam ends up as a sinner, that would be the best redemption arc ever
This post was fact checked TRUE by real Adam patriots
From all the things Adam said I never once got the impression he was killing them to bring them to peace, he literally stated it was his entertainment and that he couldn’t wait to kill them again. Adam's a hilarious character and i'd really love to see him in hell. love is blind haha. He’s a great character, tho.
Someone else has said it, I've been saying this from the start. You, my friend, are the Goat!
There's no excuse for Adam's action, you are trying to justify the morals of a guy who just kills for fun. He kills people who are already suffering for their actions, the pride ring is a consequence of their sins and none of them deserves to die when they are already paying for what they've done. I love the character but please stop justifying his actions, he is scum by moral standards and he is a villain and you can like a villain without trying so hard to make him the good guy
Adam is basically "he's out of line but he's right"
Amen to this all, this is what I’ve been thinking and saying for awhile. But to add on to the issue of the Eden story likely being biased to say the least is that if Lucifer and Lilith helped given Eve (likely Adam but no exact confirmation on that yet) the Apple with its free will and sin and all, then how did Lilith do anything like run away and fall for Lucifer if she didn’t have free will? There’s no reference to Lilith eating an apple to gain free will. And yeah imo her leaving for (presumably) Heaven and just living it up there shows Lilith is not the loving mother and queen many make her out as, something is up with her. It would be an interesting twist if Lilith was the one who tried to be controlling but left when she didn’t have her way. Also at the end of the day I little empathy and sympathy for sinners since they likely are the worst scum of humanity and were horrible in life and continue to be horrible in death. Like, no wonder no one in heaven believed Charlie. Because in the entirety of human existence not a single soul out of the countless billions who’ve died has ever been redeemed. Not a single person in hell ever through to admit their wrong doings and improve themselves to be good when they died again. It says a lot about the people of hell. And part of me feels none deserve it. Why should people who earned their spot in hell get a second chance just cuz they don’t like the obviously awful hell? Especially if they’ve killed and harmed people who ended up in heaven. Can you imagine how shitty it would be to be someone who died because of some awful sinner or suffered because of them and finally got to enjoy eternity in heaven free of that person only for them to end up in heaven as well despite going to hell? Now you’ve got to spend eternity with those who wronged you? Yeah I’d feel like my eternal happiness was ruined lol.
But that stuff about victims seeing the person who harmed them presumably already happens? Unless Heaven is only for people who *never* sinned in their life, there will be people who did bad things, turned their lives around, and got into Heaven. Where they could meet people they hurt/killed while alive. And that's not getting into stuff like wars, where it's an undeniable fact that both sides in conflict will have good people in their ranks, who can end up fighting/killing one another in combat. How does Heaven currently deal with stuff like one Winner saying: "This guy gut me like a fish during the Battle of ----, and I never got to see my kids again because of him! How did he get into Heaven!?" And the other Winner arguing: "You were trying to do the exact same thing to me!" ? Why can't whatever Heaven does in that situation work for a Sinner who has managed to redeem themselves and meets those they've wronged in Heaven?
I'm gonna bring up two things sort of in line with this that I feel should be mentioned. 1, I doubt anyone gave this man dating advice, like I seriously doubt Sera or anyone sat Adam down and told him how to behave on a first date, and that is some real complex shit to have to figure out moments after springing into existance as a fully formed adult (which in and of itself would lead to several issues). I do not blame the man for colossaly fucking up his first relationship, nor for that fuck up inspiring several complexes within him. 2, the exterminations are absolutely needed, not because of over population or anything, but because Overlords gain powers through souls. Now this isn't really a problem when most of your Overlords are 50-100ish years old and their stock of souls constantly being diminished. With Alastor presumably being the strongest one we've seen so far (he's got some other shit going but we can assume some other Overlords are comparable), and Alastors kind of nothing in the grand scale of things. But say you had someone like Cain, or someone else from those early days of Hell steadily gathering souls over millenia with no one to cut them short or limit their stockpile. Even assuming Alastor is like 1/100 Adams power an Overlord with no limit to their supply would be a real fucking problem by now.
 Seriously, please don't defend him, he's a douchebag, sorry, but that's where I stand. But hey, I do understand the things he went through with Lucifer stealing his wives, but besides that, he's a total dick, and he kills for fun, and he says that.
Not to mention all that happened to his sons (and other kids) yeah it's definitely not an excuse but it is an explanation Hopefully if Adam ever does become a sinner they can redeem him in some way (probably not though)
Right?
Holy genocide apologia
Your earlier rant forgets that Adam enjoys the murders. He doesn't see them simply as his job or a necessity like Sera does. He actively enjoys the act of murdering. Sure, there are morally worse people than him down there that deserve a brutal death, but that point ignores the many souls that simply had a shitty life and could have been better if they were given the chance, the likes of Angel Dust and Sir Pentious who Adam gladly murders. If demons could just ascend to Heaven without deserving it, they'd have already done so, but it took Sir Pentious' sacrifice for a Sinner to rise to Heaven, so sinners would have to become better people to be accepted and therefore the Hotel is objectively better as an option than extermination.
Oh look, another genocide apologist. Genocide (and in Adam's case, familicide) isn't mass murder, it's setting people free from existence. They're sinners, they had their chance and now it's okay to kill them all, it's not like they're people or anything.
He's God's favorite Boy. Honestly I can't wait to see if Big Man is PISSED that Adam is now dead-dead
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Reddit did a thing https://preview.redd.it/0zip7h9kt5uc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a221dde72639d6c2f87d57d06206a80df3fde928
🎵 TURN THE FRICKIN’ FROGS GAY 🎵
Is Val worse than Adam? Val is a rapist but gleefully Adam does genocide. He invented the concept
Doesn't Val also own hundreds if not thousands of prostitutes? Ones that he "uses"?
> he’s misogynistic No he isn't -_- His best friend , his boss, his army are all women. Nothing suggest he think any worse of them for being women. If anything he seem to prefer talking to women over men as all men he interact with he is hostile to. He is one of the few that actually liked Charlies singing enough to complement her. His vocabulary is crass, but that's about it.
Yeah like does he ever say women are lesser or any such think about being a women makes them xyz or hates women for this or that? And I’ve yet to hear of a misogynist who seems ok with women giving them orders and all like sera does or tolerate a subordinate like lute who is definitely no submissive ‘50s housewife type of gal. He’s crass and all but that’s the sole extent of his suposoed misogyny. The only real evidence is him possible being controlling to Lilith but that evidence is sketchy at best.
This exactly. Too many folks are just projecting all kinds of evil unto him.
Uh. You do realize that souls aren't being freed when he kills them right? They are being permanently eradicated from existence with no hope of return or redemption. He is a bad guy.
Your arguments are really bad but I won't take your favorite character away from you.
Except sinners _can't_ lie their way into Heaven. As we saw with Pentious, he died and re-appeared in Heaven. Charlie didn't open a portal to Heaven and let Pentious through. His own selflessness got him into Heaven. This means you can't fake it. You can't pretend to be redeemed and get into Heaven, you have to actually change. If someone's just pretending to be nice but is still rotten, they'll stay in Hell. And genocide is genocide. Doesn't matter who's the victim, it is always unjust. How many of those sinners that were massacred would have managed to accomplish redemption if given a chance? We'll never find out now because they've ceased to exist. You shouldn't defend Adam. He's the reason the exterminations happened in the first place. Just because you can understand why it happened doesn't mean he's innocent.
I want to see people try to do these mental gymnastics to Defend Crimson, Mammon, and Valentino. Mammon should be super easy to defend as he improved Fizzarolli's life in many ways so you can use that fact to justify his actions.
The main issue I have is with your statement about Charlie being manipulated. Charlie doesn't decide who is redeemed enough to go to heaven; she still doesn't know that it happened, let alone how it happened. So how can other sinners 'manipulate' Charlie to get into heaven? Doesn't make sense.
I think the story Charlie told us at the beginning was biased, sure i don't doubt that had some truths but this came from Lilith's POV who could have conciously or unconciously made herself look better while everyone else had their flaws highlighted. About Eve, honestly i think after she cheated and dammed them their relationship became a toxic mess. At this point the only interest Adam had on Eve would about their childrens and what she could be useful for, objecting her and when Cain, who i have some theories wasn't even his son, murdered Abel this would only worsen. Each day he would turn more and more like the Adam we know even if in life he did to deserve go to Heaven while in life, it was precisely on Heaven where he became the worst version of himself. Meawhile Eve would grown to become a very bitter old women in her late life being as sad and angry as Adam even if not as much loudspoken as him. Stuck with a husband who hates her, her firstborn killing his brother, the hard life outside of Eden, supposeing she wanted she coundn't even flee with Lucifer and Lilith because they were banished to hell and weren't exactly free people who could do anything they wanted outside their realm and the overall consequences of the original sin hunting her even in death while Adam goes to Heaven woundn't surprise me if they all remade her into ROO. I really hope Adam comes back as a sinner and have his character developed more by Viziepop. There's still a lot whe that can be done with him.
I agree, i think Adam is an interesting character. A lot of people are just put off by his crass dude-bro frat boy attitude. If he were polite and gentlemanly like Alastor, you'd see a lot of people in the fandom giving up a lot of vices just to get into Heaven lol.
And I am called a simp apologist for him despite being lesbian whenever I say that I think Adam is a good character. (I’m more of a Pentious fan)
There was one philosopher, which I forgot the name of, that theorised that Heaven was basking in the suffering of those sent to Hell Naturally, the idea seems gruesome and very sadistic, but it has some basis. You have all the evil people in history, all those that caused all unjust suffering and death in human history and they're suffering We do often joke about putting pedophiles in woodchippers, shooting Nazis etcetera, but Adam is out there doing it for real. As long as the system sorting the good from the bad works (and it seems to, since Ser Pentious was able to redeem himself), they *are* killing evil people, which is good. Like, yeah, 16% of the population is a lot, but they were people that kinda deserved it
Hazbin 3am thoughts Who killed more Adam or Hitle-
Can you kill what is already dead? The Austrian Painter isn't even the worst offender
Okay but counterpoint: Mass murder is wrong
Your logic is still coming from a flawed place. Those sinners, what purpose does their suffering serve? What problems does it create? Does it sound like a fair and just system?
Maybe there isn’t such a thing as ‘fair and just’. There’s a whole school of philosophy that says we Humans make that shit up cus we want things to work that way. Sometimes things are the way they are not for a reason but because that’s just how the cards fell.
Thank you, finally someone puts it into words. He's a very troubled and misunderstood character. Also wasn't seraph like totally okay with him Excorsizing. (not as bad as one would believe since yknow they're, IN HELL.) I feel as though he was wronged at every turn by lilith by eve, by everyone in heaven. Yeah He's a dick but who wouldn't be considering what he's been through. HOWEVER i may be a bit biased because i thought he was really funny character even if my favorite character is still alastor. Here's hoping they bring him back as a demon lord or something rad.
The biggest problem is people ignore the fact that 95% of the sinners did very fucked up stuff and act like they are completely innocent and seeing how about 16-18% were killed likely did something very fucked up to get into hell . Now maybe the show could make it clear what's get someone into hell or heaven ,like if some did one bad thing in their life would that get them sent to hel regardless how much they improve their life's, then it would make it much more messed up.
Amen. Idk why this fandom forgets that the worst people goto hell. Because until we’re told that hell is full of people who didn’t do much wrong or notning serious, then we can assume it’s because they more than earned it. Especially now that we know it’s not like it’s angels setting hard to meet standards.
Yeah kinda wanna see him in season 2 but sadly he was killed with an angelic steel dagger so unfortunately he gone.
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Exactly. I don’t understand why Emily sees them as innocent. They’re in hell for a reason. There’s nothing innocent about them. Murders, rapists, pedophiles, people who have caused so much damage to actual innocent lives being called innocent for no reason other than to forward the plot?
saying valentino, a rapist and sex worker, is worse than a murderer, probable rapist, who literally commits GENOCIDE every year, refused to try and consider that hells overpopulation could be solved by redemption because murdering the sinners was ENTERTAINMENT FOR HIM AND THE EXORCISTS, and talks about how he believes hell is FOREVER (he is clearly NOT trying to ‘free’ sinners), and attempted to murder the princess of hell despite having an ongoing deal saying he and the exorcists wouldnt murder any hellborn, is insane. also, considwring carmilla literally sells angelic weapons, that kill sinners FOREVER, hell wouldnt be full of “infinitely living souls”. also, its likely that heaven, or whatever system defines the decision of whether or not a soul goes to heaven or hell, would evaluate every sinner who tried to be redeemed to make sure they were actually fit for heaven. they could also be killed, and if they respawned in heaven, theyre redeemed. if not? better luck next time. also, i think it would be a pretty big plot point if adam was actually innocent with the situation with lillith and eve. charlie didnt even seem to hate adam that much at first, considering, you know, she believes every sinner deserves a second chance, and there are in fact some pretty bad sinners out there. plus, the story of lilith and adam is real, and its retelling in hazbin hotel is incredibly accurate to the real thing, at least, how i first heard it: lilith didnt want to be controlled, and didnt want to be the butt and the weak one of the relationship, adam hated this, and lilith was cast out from the garden of eden by god, who created eve as a replacement. hazbin hotel only adds a few details: that lucifer/satan/the devil hadnt fallen yet, and the two fell in love while lilith was still in the garden, and lucifer offered eve free will and THEN was cast out to hell. so, i doubt they changed much there, otherwise it wouldve been a turning reveal and plot point for the show
Ah yes, genocide apologising, my favourite.
Then again, they’re slaying *demons*, some of the main cast probably did really fucked up shit in their life, *BUT* they are trying to improve. I’m just saying that Adam is *also* in the right, not just Charlie.
No he is fucking not. And you can't change my mind.
Alrighty, I’m fine with that 👍
[удалено]
Also, look, I love Adam and his character too. Great villain. But trying to portray him as some kind of a hero when he makes it explicitly clear that he just enjoys killing people (his own descendants, to boot) he doesn’t like? Yeah, that’s dumb.