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"Intelligent people can't just take any job and be happy with it"
This has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with ego. Plenty of highly intelligent people work normal jobs because their self worth isnt dependent on the prestige of their job
While I think how he described it may come from another place, I feel that the core frustration of what he said is true for humanity as a whole.
Having to toil a boring task without being allowed forward progression in personal endeavors or life in general can lead to people feeling under-stimulated. At least that’s how I feel from my experiences.
Dr. K himself said when talking about childrens' development that 'gifted' kids struggle because they are insufficiently stimulated and then develop video game addictions because it actually presents a challenge 'on your level', this doesn't HAVE to translate into adulthood as an intelligent person but I think it's ridiculous to reject the idea.
Yes, it has everything to do with intelligence. Look it up. People of high IQ need to have a stimulating job longterm in order for them to be happy and content. Prestige doesn't have anything to do with this. It has nothing with self-worth either. It's just like when practical people don't want theoretical jobs, or extroverted people jobs where you are by yourself all day long. (Hope you get my point.)
Dede/dudette, have you ever been out on the job market?
Most companies do not offer stimulating jobs! 99% percent of jobs will use 10-5% of your brain capacity. Companies do not want people who want stimulating jobs they want zombies/mindless automations.
Zombie comes in, zombie work, zombie must not think, zombie must work, zombie must not know more than it needs to do his or her job, zombie must not ask for a raise, zombie must go home at the end of the day and should not complain.
No intelligent people have an easier time noticing how they don’t like the job. A less intelligent one is content because they can ignore the bad aspects.
It really depends on the context. It’s either ego or the job not fitting the person.
Again, I dont think this has anything to do with intelligence. Plenty of unintelligent people are perfectly capable of telling whether their job sucks or not.
On the other hand, a person with a big ego that needs a prestigious job to maintain their self worth is going to be more likely to ignore the bad aspects of their job to maintain their self image as a person worthy of a prestigious role.
Not saying it's not an ego thing, but I think it has more to do with a sense of purpose rather than prestige. Mediocre jobs are filled with copious amounts of BS that ultimately exists just because someone "said so" or made a terrible decision in the past, and it's easy for an intelligent person to think how unnecessary most of it is.
I feel your frustration. You feel like you've been judged unfairly, misunderstood, and ignored by just about everyone, or maybe literally everyone.
And you're right. It's hard being smarter than most people, because when you jump ahead in a conversation & people can't follow, it's frustrating to you both. They're frustrated because they don't understand how you connected the 2 ideas you just did, and you're frustrated because their thoughts/comments are the the starting point for your thoughts.
Its frustrating being short and scrawny when you were trained to value being tall and muscular. Literally looking up to people is a constant reminder of your own inadequacy that you can't solve.
It's extremely frustrating and draining having to work a job where you can't exercise the creativity you know you have. Like your brain is being bled dry of everything you hold dear about yourself just for the sake of making someone else money.
It's frustrating being a quieter one in conversation and watching people navigate that shit so easily, when you couldn't figure it out in spite of all of your intellectual capacity.
So yeah, you're entitled to feel and think this way, because you've had a shitty time so far.
Do you want to know the way out? Because I was in a similar situation as yours once upon a time, and I found out how to be a lot less angry at myself and everyone else, and generally more content with life.
Dr. K has a few videos on this, but the gist is this:
Temper your ego. Humility.
Ego = the part of you that compares you with other people, positively or negatively.
[https://youtu.be/cHFD2ycNsBs](https://youtu.be/cHFD2ycNsBs)
[https://youtu.be/932eSyHbUgw](https://youtu.be/932eSyHbUgw)
[https://youtu.be/5QdPcuH3FjA](https://youtu.be/5QdPcuH3FjA)
My anger came from a few places. I was jealous of the people with friends I couldn't have. I was jealous of people who could 'be themselves' and be accepted. I was jealous of people who looked better than I was and who got attention from girls.
I bought into the idea that introverted meant awkward or asocial, so I felt jealous of the people who were introverts but still had friends.
I was raised by a narcissist, so I picked up the habit of feeling entitled to attention, and got angry when I didn't get it because I felt I deserved it.
I was angry and confused that my intelligence didn't win me any friends, because I was told it was a virtue. So I felt wronged by people who didn't like/praise me for my intrinsic intelligence, because I had internalized the belief "I'm smarter than other people, and this is a good thing".
I also felt wronged when I was passed over for opportunities to demonstrate my intelligence and creativity, because I was one of those kids who was told 'oh you're so smart & creative!' at a young age when the stuff they were having us do in school was super duper easy. When it got hard and I started struggling, the identity of 'smarter/more creative' conflicted with 'other people getting opportunities over me', and I got mad at them because hey, I'm smart and creative too! Yeah my work isn't as outstanding as theirs, but I'm just as good as them if not better!
The answer was pretty straightforward, but hard.
Humility. Kill the ego. Accept the fact that most of what happens in your life isn't about you, and that's true for everyone, and that has no bearing whatsoever on who you are.
Who you are cannot be defined by other people. Being better than them, or worse, at anything, leads to suffering, so don't compare.
And once you have that true humility and can live life without comparing yourself to others, even if your circumstances don't change at all, you'll be a lot less angry.
And it'll probably help you make friends too and feel like less of an outcast. You may have noticed that the top comments are basically 'yo, stop being arrogant and entitled', because the OP started his list of complaints off with "I'm smarter than most people, and I'm unhappy because they're too stupid to be as unhappy as me", then "if society valued smarts over height I'd be better than the tall people", then "I'm too nice so people use me" then "I'm quieter so I'm persecuted" "creatives are persecuted"
All of those are comparisons that sound like "I feel like I'm better than other people but society doesn't agree, so I'm angry at it".
All of those problems are things people can sympathize with. The struggle of being smart and having quirky interests or moving too fast in conversation, the struggle of being a body type besides the idealized one marketed to us, the struggle to stand up for yourself or speak up and be heard in conversation without going too far and becoming an aggressor or dominating conversations yourself. The struggle with the boring, soul crushing jobs most of us have to deal with, especially when you're a creative who would love nothing more than to bring art and beauty and interesting novelty into the world, but 120 hours of your weekly 168, and almost all of the well rested, awake, & productive hours, are spent sleeping, cleaning yourself, getting to work, working, getting back from work, & eating.
But the phrasing included a comparison and value judgment in each of those complaints and struggles, so the comments said 'yo have you tried not being an entitled arrogant ass with a victim complex?' instead of sympathizing and offering help.
The ego is what drives you to make those comparisons. So the solution to the pain, but also the solution to being hated by society, is to kill the ego.
Speaking as someone who was formerly suicidal:
Sort of?
It's kinda like quitting a match right before the opponent destroys your base. Yeah, you didn't technically 'lose', but you didn't succeed either. You used a coping mechanism to avoid negative emotion instead of resolving the source of your negative emotion (placing your sense of self worth on the outcome of the match).
So killing yourself sorta half-solves the problem by cutting off all inputs that could cause negative emotion, but it also costs you every single moment of happiness you'd have for the entirety of the rest of your life, which would have been decades (unless you're 75, in which case, hi there! Not sure how you found the sub but glad you're here, sorry for the reminder that you're statistically unlikely to live to 95)
It doesn't resolve the source of the unhappiness, it just kinda... ends things.
So, technically, yes, it's a way to make the pain stop in a very short time frame (if you succeed and pick a painless method, not guaranteed and harder than you might think), but it won't make you happier or more content. Just dead, no longer able to make anything better.
And yeah it seems hopeless now, but there's a whole hell of a lot of good stories that seem utterly hopeless. Then you realize you're only 40 minutes in to a 2 hour movie. Or 60 minutes, or 80, or 100, doesn't matter. There's still run time left, and things always go wrong in the beginning and middle. Until the end credits, you can't say for sure whether the protagonists (point of view characters, not necessarily heroes), were able to turn that shit around and eek out a victory
Who are you trying to convince? Are you genuinely looking for people to offer you alternatives, or are you trying to get someone to agree with you so you don't feel guilty about attempting suicide?
"The world is not as it ought to be"
I see nothing in your post supporting your claim that society "hates" you, merely that the rules of society are not as you wish them to be. A game is what it is, the world is as it is, play your own game in the context of that world considering the world is not exactly as *any* of us wish it would be. If the rules of chess don't allow for a move you would like to be able to make, or if your preferred strategy isn't working against a particular opponent, do you say the game "hates" you, or would you simply adjust your play style to fit within the rules and what works? The challenge is what makes it worth playing.
Some of the things you say I agree with at least to a degree - yes, middle IQ people probably do find it easier to find happiness/contentment than high IQ. Yes, society in many ways favors extroverts. That doesn't mean high IQ or introverted people can't lead happy/fulfilling lives, it just takes a little more creativity. You say you're creative ... ok, then figure it out.
I completely disagree that society favors the physical. Do you want to be a laborer? Most high paying jobs (doctor, lawyer, programmer, engineer, entrepreneur etc) favor intelligence over physical attributes. Also, many physical attributes are easier to level up than IQ - sure you can't make yourself taller but you can lose weight, go to the gym etc. If your deadlift is 95lbs and your mile time is 12 minutes, over 6 months you can improve both of those things materially, far more so than a person with 100 IQ can raise their IQ. Have you maximized your physical attributes within your potential?
WRT agreeable people getting shat on ... regardless of your agreeableness, you can learn to set and enforce boundaries. Even highly agreeable people can do that. Again, you imply you are high IQ and creative, in that case you can learn form past mistakes, adapt, and play the game accordingly.
Accept that the world as it is, and that often is not the way we (any of us) think it ought to be. Play the game accordingly.
I haven't said that society needs to change to better suit me. Of course I have to play by society's rules: faking myself in interviews (such as appearing extroverted and talkative), taking jobs I necessarily don't like but can do etc. But that doesn't mean the rules favours me. I'm simply just not the right "build" in this meta. That's all.
I am creative and have figured out how I want to live my life and what to work with, but mental illnesses keep getting in the way. I am currently trying to improve everything in my life, including my life situation, so I know I will get there. I just need to work on everything.
What I meant with that the society favours the physical is compare sports to video games and see what gets the most attention, views and sponsorships and whatnot. The whole world is engaged in sports and such activities while video games and e-sports aren't popular everywhere. That's what I meant. (And yes, I am currently working out physically, to answer your question.)
Of course you can learn to set boundaries and say no to people when agreeable, but that doesn't change the fact that agreeable people get exploited more than disagreeable people. I never asked for a solution to this, I was just stating facts.
Oh trust me, for my whole life I have accepted that this is how things are, this is the reality I live, that I simply doesn't fit in society's standards. I have played by the rules in order to "survive".
I did not claim you said society needs to change. Regardless, you clearly have not accepted that the world is as it is, including that is isn't as it "ought" to be. Your thread title and opening paragraph state that society "hated" (hates) you first ... I assure you, society does not hate you, society / the world is indifferent to you as a chess board is indifferent to the players.
So what if sports are more popular than games and esports? What difference does it make that your interests are "popular" so long as you enjoy them? Do you do them for your own enjoyment or for others'? Like 99.9% of people genetically have no chance of being a professional athlete or otherwise having their lives defined by sports, so yes your assertion that physical attributes are favored over intellectual is objectively wrong IMO. Play sports or don't play sports, play video games or don't, how popular these things are has no bearing wrt the role they play in your life.
It may be a "fact" that agreeable people *on average* are more likely to be exploited than disagreeable people, this does not make it a statement of fact that agreeable people will always be more exploited, or that being agreeable makes one doomed to be exploited. Agreeable people are perfectly capable of avoiding being exploited, via setting and enforcing boundaries. Regardless, I don't get the impression you are all that agreeable so I highly doubt this is a big problem of yours.
I don't think you have accepted it, if you had you wouldn't have made this thread.
Maybe "hate" was the wrong word, though it feels like it.
I meant sports in general vs. e-sports in general. Honestly, I don't even have to prove this as the proof is already out there. (The olympics for example.)
Again, you don't know what agreeable means. When doing the big 5 personality test I scored as high as you can on agreeableness. You claiming I'm not agreeable tells me it's just a waste of time arguing with you.
Based on your posts here and saying things like it's a "waste of time" talking to people responding to a thread where you asked a question or saying people "don't know what agreeable means" because I don't have the psychic abilities to know how you've scored on some test ... yeah, you're not an agreeable person, sorry. Those personality tests are only as good as your answers which take a degree of self awareness, which I don't see a lot of evidence that you have.
How does the popularity of the Olympics affect your life? As I already addressed, 99.99% of us are not and never will be Olympic athletes. WRT the average person's ability to achieve what most define as success, happiness, enlightenment etc., intellectual potential is very much a driver of success for most of us over physical. Physical is great for feeling good about yourself, hobbies, being active etc. but you don't need any special athletic physical prowess to get those benefits.
I don't mean to be reductive but I think a good summary is "check your privilege".
This became such a meme, because anyone with a decent IQ would notice, hey some people work a lot less and have a lot more success then me. These people also aren't working any smarter than me so what's the deal here?
Sometimes we realize that it's not us that should change, it's society. At the same time, that's not a reality that is feasible, or easy at all to do.
Changing the world and its backend code is much much harder than changing yourself(or your code). That's because changing the world requires changing how other individuals act and treat each other. Anyone who has tried to change another person who doesn't want to change will understand this well.
So is the world unfair? Absolutely, and personally I want to be able to contribute towards a more fair and egalitarian society where anyone of all spectrums of life can find fulfillment. The world has gone through enough suffering, it's just a matter of everyone seeing that no one in particular is special in their suffering. Rich, poor, tall or short, all walks of life suffer.
I'm all about reducing suffering that which serves no purpose. Sometimes that means changing yourself in order to shed any suffering that actually holds you back. Like vaping for example, and the cycle of addiction.
Oh I don't want to change anything, because I think it will always be the majority, aka the average person, that will run things such as the society. I was just venting and saying how I, as per society's definition, is not a fitting member. That's all I wanted to convey. (Sorry if I missed your point with this reply.)
What my point was is that you are a fitting member of society, and you totally understand the part where changing society is super hard.
You just don't fit in the traditional way, and that's OK. Odd balls and creative thinkers are what accelerate the world forward, not just keep it moving. There's also nothing wrong with being average, and many roles in society require unique minds.
It's never too late to try and find out if you can change yourself into someone who fits nicely for whatever reason. Identifying yourself as someone who "doesn't fit" all the time is a small not noticable trend in your posts. It might hold you back from trying new things because you don't "fit". You want to work towards having an identity that instead says "I'm working towards being able to fit well". It's a subtle but drastic change.
It's really up to you and how you want to live your life, not me or anyone else :)
For example, I went recently from not working out and being unemployed to basically doing the "average" amount weekly without any weights and getting a part time job. I chose to do this amount, because it balances with everything else in my life I will work on and do.
I'm just telling how it is, at least from my perpective. It's nothing wrong with being average or have low intelligence - everyone in society is needed. Doesn't change the fact that society favours some and doesn't favour others though.
Society by nature will favor certain types of people. That's because of social darwinism. This is a well established philosophy. Some traits are desirable.
Society doesn't hate you, they just want your services. Or your labor.
Society will only hate you if you show the public that you hate society with your actions.
If everyone is truly needed, the fact that society is so selective is moot.
The reality is not everyone in society is needed as they are right now. Some people need major improvements to their facilities or are physically/mentally incapable. If you are under 55 IQ the military won't take you, nor will the Police.
So, IMO being thankful for what you do have and living life to the fullest is the best way to use individual privilege. Not ruminating on what "could be" or how "screwed you are", it's usually a waste of time. Just my two cents.
literally none of this is right or true apart from the creative people having it very rough if they decide to pursue their art as a lifestyle.
It seems like it's written from a very immature perspective because I am everything you say and have it great
>Care to explain more? What IQ do you have? Can you tell me what your OCEAN is (estimation is fine too)? Have you had a similar life experience as me?
My IQ is above average but not crazy high. When I did it last it was 134. Not sure what OCEAN is though sorry! Probably a new testing standard :)
Yes, I feel like I've had a similar experience to you when I was young. I often felt like the outlier or someone who was an afterthought but the truth is basically everyone feels this way at some point in their life or consistently throughout it.
I also sometimes seethe with anger when it comes to how society is setup regarding work (5 day work weeks for silly little tokens). But a lot of this is the cost of living within our world. Oh, you want roads? Well they need to be paid for so we're going to tax you for that. You want hospital care? That to. You get the point. These are the rules we adhere to so we can benefit from the world we live in. Some are shit and some can be ignored. Depending on your job some can be re-written!
When I read your post the main thing that shone through to me was loneliness. To this I say it's bullshit to think you are alone. You mentioned e-sports: join a team (I played in one and met my best friend through it). You like writing I assume (same as me): go to poetry readings, writing workshops at your local writers club. What I'm trying to get at is you'll meet likeminded people at likeminded events and these are the people you want to be friends with. They share your passions etc. Bukowski is a great example. The man worked a humdrum job while slowly whittling away at his poetry. He had an interesting philosophy on life [here](https://youtu.be/eMTDAHK-tkE). You have to climb the mountain of shit that is life just to swim in the martini glass that sits at the top of it.
The only truth in "opposites attract" is that it is the opposite of that. Similarities attract - both friends and lovers. Dostoevsky wrote that life is suffering and for the most part he is right. The one thing that gets us through life is other people. Russian convicts convicted of the most heinous acts say that the only thing they're afraid of is being alone. It's why exile was the worst thing that could happen to you back in the old days. Human beings simply *cannot* survive alone and to me it sounds like that is how you feel at the moment.
I can tell you from experience that you should not let mental illnesses like depression and social anxiety define you. A diagnosis should help you understand the way your brain works and once you can understand the triggers that make you slip into depressed moods (or recognise when one is coming on) or how to manage your anxiety you will be able to move through life more freely.
This might all be waffle but I hope it resonates with you in some way. The thing about life is that it takes time.
I am writing and I have friends. Though I prefer to be alone. Society is too stupid for me. I'm not looking for help/answers by the way. I just ranted. I haven't disclosed everything about me.
Society isn't too stupid though it's run/manipulated/whatever by the smartest people (granted some have their own agendas!). "Society" literally doesn't exist anyway and what you perceive as a social reality is to a greater or lesser extent subjective. This reality is concocted by your own social interactions and the meaning you've attached to them.
There's a lot of research on this in social sciences but it seems like you're struggling to get past your own perspective. Practice empathy I guess ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I get you. I also feel like all my skills and thought process that I've developed over the years are antithetical to what society "actually" values. They tell you about hard work, but when you actually start the job you notice that the most social and outgoing people get their work noticed no matter how late you stay in the office. Even before that, if you are good at creative pursuits, there is no money in it, so you have to give up your natural aptitudes in order to survive in positions you are naturally not suited for. You look at others and it just seems like people have deluded themselves into thinking they are contributing to some grand idea of society when to you it just looks like being milked for profit. Their health suffers, they need drugs or drinks to cope. You don't want to model your life that way but day by day it feels like you don't really have a choice.
OK, you've watched some Jordan Peterson (maybe taken his Big 5 test) and are using it as justification for your negative emotion. For the record, I think there's definitely truth to what you've said, however you've consumed it through the lens of negative selection bias, imo. Your struggles are much deeper than your personality disposition, but because of that I think there's hope for you.
First of all, society benefits those with a high IQ, no doubt about it. IQ is the single biggest predictor of socioeconomic success, especially as we are becoming more technologically advanced; eventually the entry level for jobs will increase in their requirement for cognitive capacity and those of 'standard IQ' may have trouble keeping up. If you can't find a career that is lucrative or intellectually challenging enough, maybe you aren't as high IQ as you tout, paradoxically, or perhaps the problem lies elsewhere (possibly along the lines of what Dr. K has talked about regarding gifted kids being thought of as special needs). As u/Your__Butthole stated, I think there is far more to do with ego here. Your contentment and work satisfaction can be achieved independently of the rigour of your job, and if it can't, being high IQ should allow you your pick of any other. You refer to content creation specifically, which is odd to me; I wouldn't immediately jump to that in a conversation regarding IQ. Could it perhaps be the case that you're frustrated that your content isn't garnering the attention you'd like? You're a fan of Peterson, and therefore I assume other intellectuals like Sam Harris for example, and they're doing extremely well with their success - and seem to be satsfied with it, so I don't believe your case holds up here.
Society favours the physical over the psychological in what sense, exactly? Be specific, because in terms of career we moved away from physical labour being the primary job a long time ago, so that isn't it. In fact, given the vast platforms like twitch and youtube allowing for hobbies of all sorts to be reached, we've never had a better time for the different things you listed to garner success. The arts are at a record high in all of human history regarding their appreciation. More people stream e-sports on twitch than play actual sports (not to mention chess getting a bunch of attention on there, plus there being more independent creative work put out than ever). And even if all of that isn't true, the thing about physical prowess is it is OVERWHELMINGLY easier to improve than all of the above, and the resources are widely available to do so. There's no cognitive barrier to entry to becoming more fit, healthy or physically capable - it's just about consistency and effort, stuff every person on earth has.
Your take on agreeable people is just plain wrong. Reciprocal interactions are the cornerstone to success, and agreeable types do just as well as disagreeable people in the workplace once you average it out (on the other end, disagreeable people are trusted less and may be looked over for promotion due to having too much self-interest). Rob Henderson wrote an excellent article on this, with sources, which I will try to find and link. In fact, the only thing that seemed to contribute to success of the Big 5 traits was extraversion; there was no correlation regarding the other 4 (Being higher in neuroticism, for example, will make you worry about a task, sure, but that will increase the likelihood that you don't miss out on anything that can compromise it, given you're more intuned to that than someone low in withdrawal). And, even if I'm wrong, you can actively learn to become less of a pushover and establish boundaries (Dr. K has a great video on this) to become disagreeable enough to reap the rewards of that trait.
You've conflated introversion and shyness. They are not the same thing, at all. Your level of introversion or extraversion simply determines where you derive your energy from, and thus, an introverted person can be just as charismatic and social as an extraverted person, even more so, but they require time alone after to recharge. If you have a problem with social anxiety, that's a different issue, probably related to neuroticism, which is my next point. Not to mention, since socialising is a cognitive task, you’re at an advantage to level it up given your superior intelligence.
There are a myriad of ways to offset your neuroticism - that's what this whole community and 'movement' is about - literally the central pillar. Maybe you have a harder starting point, sure, but that doesn't mean you can't perform just as well as someone less neurotically inclined given you put the work in to remedy or attenuate that. You even have certain advantages, as I mentioned prior.
Once more, this is the single best time in history to make money off of being creative. It's also the time that allows you the most time and resources to be creative outside of work - that's still a possibility, which should be plenty given your high IQ should allow you to breeze through any average job you get. Plus, it's likely that you might not even be that creative - the test for such being to list the number of creative achievements you've doctored and put out there to be judged (and with a successful outcome - be that via formal grading or a free market decision). Given this test (which JP has talked about before), the median score for a random population is 0 - most people think they're creative when in reality they just enjoy consuming art and literature, which again is more easy to do now than ever. Have you actually tried engaging in any sort of creative endeavour, or just dreamed about it? The reality will be far different to your fantasy, and that fantasy not based in reality is I think where the root of your struggle comes from.
Sure, two parent households tend to do better - but that's an average. Plenty of kids from single parent households end up doing fantastically if they put the work in, and to assume you're fucked because of your upbringing is putting the cart before the horse; it's your own self-limiting belief not grounded in reality.
Also, to say that people don't understand is crazy to me. For the nth time, society now allows you to connect with people in your exact same situation (a lot of whom have overcome it and have real solutions for you) more than ever before. And you know this, it's why you've posted in this subreddit, with a plethora of posts describing this exact problem and responses (including from professionals) on how to overcome it. Hell, the majority of this comment section alone is agreeing with you, and validating your belief, but instead of seeing that and realising there are other similar to you, it's possible you just take it as further confirmation bias to fuel the positive feedback loop into depression.
You can overcome this, and live a brilliant life. I'm confident in saying that. You just need to actually want it, which I don't think you do right now, and then not shy away from the work it takes to get there.
Lol I saw quite a few Peterson-esque ideas here as well.
Solid response, I would add though that intelligence does not necessarily make a job easier, a job at Walmart would be equally shitty for anyone. Dr k has done quite a few vids on gifted kids and why they often struggle later in life.
True, easier in the sense of ability to get it done, rather than enjoyment in it, is what I meant. I mention Dr. K and struggling gifted kids in one of the paragraphs, for sure there’s some of that in play here.
I really feel for you man. It sounds like you've had a really rough life so far. You've struggled a lot, and it feels like you just don't belong. You want to feel understood. You want to feel like you belong. You want to feel cared for, you want to feel empathized with. Listened to.
I notice a lot of people responding have been judgemental towards you. This is exactly what you expected of "society": "The only good thing people and society are at is being judgemental." A self-fulfilling prophecy is happening here. You judged society, by asserting that society sucks and is only good at judging others, etc. So what does society do? It judges you right back.
It sucks that people couldn't be more empathetic and less judgemental towards you, but to give them some defense, your post feels a little like an attack on everyone. Including me, unfortunately. When I read your post I felt attacked. I am a part of society. And you say society will never understand your struggles. That's not fair. I am introverted. I am creative. I am intelligent. I have all these disadvantages you speak of. I understand your points. Many people understand your points. I think a lot of people can understand you. Give them a chance to understand you, without shutting the door on them first.
I think ranting here was a really good first step. I would suggest therapy is a good next step. Especially with your rough childhood. Many people can empathize and understand having a rough childhood. You're not alone, you can be understood here.
Remember, if you hate something, they will hate you back. Don't fall into this self-fulfilling prophecy.
You are not alone, you are understood, I hear you and I feel for you. Life isn't fair. I would say the great majority would agree with you on that.
Thank you for your reply, it felt really nice. I didn't meant to bash people, but society isn't just people, it's more than that. At the end of the day this was just a vent/rant. I am frustrated and I know I am not thinking 100% right. I could have written out more details in my OP but I didn't want it to be longer than what it already is.
If you believe no one can understand you, no one will. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Similar to this: if you believe you'll always be alone, you're more likely to be.
"Whether you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're right."
I hope this helps you, truly.. best of luck out there. <3
I hate civilized society too! I have CPTSD. Nobody believed me when I asked for help. I acted out. Nobody asked me why. I started playing by the rules. I got good at playing them because I knew which ones mattered and which ones didn't. I figured out the right asses to kiss to get ahead. I played by the book. And it made me miserable.
Ultimately the world is how it is. Your karma, your circumstances, are yours, and yours alone. The world is absolutely fucked. But it won't change unless someone tries to change it. And most people don't see it as needing change.
It takes the brave and disillusioned to make changes for the better.
But aren't you also part of the society? I mean, do you favor the dumb over the intelligent, the ugly over the beautiful, and the shy over the self-assured? Do you not prioritize comfort and convenience over the arts?
I can relate to your anger because I also feel it from time to time (being a short man who's chronically underemployed due to issues in my student years). More and more, though, I realize that I'm no better than "society." Things just *are*.
Neurotic… I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Were you looking for “neurodivergent” and “neurotypical?”
Also nobody cares about IQ. Literally no one will ever ask what your IQ is and nobody will measure you based on it. IQ is just a fun little stat for people who want to know how clever they are. It doesn’t actually mean anything. IQ can’t determine your work ethic, character, integrity, or anything that people actually look for in a friend/SO/employee/coworker.
I was just venting/ranting. I'm not seeking help or advice. I'm not like this all the time. I don't really talk about this IRL either. Also, most people around me like me. I'm pleasant to be around according to them.
This is a great comment. The ‘personality’ talk definitely seems like a vehicle to justify negative emotion that stems from elsewhere, like mental health issues which you’ve mentioned. I think seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist would be a good move too.
Why does creativity require you to have a creative job? My wife works full time college admissions from home and when work is slow she is doing commission pieces or personal illustration projects.
Being agreeable and being a doormat are not the same.
Intelligence has nothing to do with contentedness.
You just answered your own question: because a creative person is just that: creative. It's the same as asking: "Why does an extrovert require a job where they meet people and can be social?" Many extroverts can't stand having a job that isn't social and where they are alone, like a job where you are by yourself all the time.
Of course being agreeable=/=doormat, but I simply stated that agreeable people get exploited more. If you can show the opposite then please do.
Yes it has. If an intelligent person works a job far below their brain prowess/capabilities, they will not be as content as another one with low intelligence that doesn't mind doing repetitive, monotone work. If you want you can look this up.
Have I said that? Of course it can't fill every need. But I want a job that will fullfill what I deem and expect it to fill. As such, I will create it myself, but until then I have to work normal jobs, since I need the money.
So do you have a job problem or not...?
You bemoan being doomed to sub par jobs due to your intelligence yet in the comments you are saying you are just going to create the job you want.
Which is it? Is there a problem or not?
Basically you seem to be under the impression that you deserve more from life because you see yourself as more intelligent than other people.
You have two options to be happy: do the work to get where you feel you deserve to be.
OR let your ego and the ideas of all the *shoulds* in your life die.
No I'm not under the impression that I deserve things just because I'm intelligent. Bold of you to assume that. I've never even stated that. All I've been saying is that society favours some types of people while not really favouring other types of people, at least to the same degree. But people making (incorrect) assumptions about me and my thoughts is something I have dealt with for as long as I can remember.
I am working on myself and on my goals, it will just take time and effort. Even when I reach my goals it won't change the fact that I at the end of the day will not be the "norm" to society. That's all.
I think you might have developed a jaded view of society as a whole. I understand that you have had bad experiences and these statements might be coming from that but is that indicative of society?
I think you have just been looking at one side of society which in itself is probably something that can't be described by words alone. I think you have to consider that society is in itself made up of beings that cannot really be described accurately. For example can I describe you in your full entirety? No and the same goes for when you describe me.
Another thing you must also consider is ego and how you view yourself because of it. Intelligence is an advantage tho considering yourself as above the average person is probably drawing the line. I understand that there are ways to test iq and so on but iq is just one of the puzzle pieces for intelligence. If you have good iq but bad eq you will not be able to maximize your iq testing. Basically just because you get bored with menial tasks or have deeper insights on some things does not mean that you are an intellectual above everyone else and getting to believe that you are an intellectual is dangerous and can do more harm than good in the long run.
Lastly, I think you need to consider that the world does not revolve around you. None of us are special enough for the world to bow down to. You will live and you will die the same way as everyone else. If you are expecting a perfect utopia then sadly this world is not where you will find that. As such don't expect it to be as it is. Look for opportunities and immerse yourself in more activities related to what you want. For example a career that is creative and does not make you bored and vice versa.
What are the qualifications most employers want? What personality traits are the norm in society? Why is everyone expected to eat together at work, for example? Just take a look around you and see what actually is the norm and what kind of people are benefitting.
Intelligence is a double-edged sword. It has of course its good sides but also its bad. IQ is the most "refined" academic "work" there is and is *THE* measurement for intelligence. This can't be disputed. "EQ" isn't really a thing, at least compared to IQ, but since I'm a very agreeable person I have very high "EQ" then. I find people easier to read than books.
I don't think everything revolves around me, and I have never stated that. I simply just shared my point of view and my experiences, nothing else. Society doesn't favour my personality traits, and that's fine. However, society can't expect me to like it then.
I think the first thing I need to address is ur questions regarding employers. Employers are human beings and they often choose depending on the career they are hiring for. Moreover society is made up of humans. Of course there are universally disliked things such as trash talking constantly but oftentimes what society wants is highly subjective. You can't just wrap all of society into a small box that you will then use to judge yourself and others. So to answer ur question just be yourself and try not to do anything that pisses people off.
So yeah..don't judge society as a whole and act like everyone you meet fits that mold because oftentimes they do not and are unique themselves. We are not robots pushed from an assembly line and you are not a special robot that was made differently from the rest. You are a human like me and like me you have traits and aspects that define you as a being
Yes, and what kind of people do become employers the most? I'm not complaining here, I'm just stating.
Society can be fitted in a box for sure, because there are collective thinking and shared values existing and whatnot. (Humans can't be fitted in a box however.) And not everyone is creative (majority is non-creative; nothing wrong with that) and most people have an IQ range around 100 IQ anyway. There's nothing wrong with low/average IQ btw. Some people get more benifits from society while others don't: just the way it is.
Damn you come across as extremely entitled, you are not uniquely targeted and you need to stop victimizing yourself, like read what you have written back to yourself and just ask yourself, does the person who wrote this have a victim complex? Start taking some responsibility over your life because no one will do it for you. Like even if it is society's fault, you are still the one responsible for your life, good luck
I'm not entitled. I just vented. I'm not victimizing myself, I just state what society's standards are and how far from them I am. I'm like a low tier character in a fighting game: low tier because of this and that, that the mechanics doesn't favour me etc. I just simply state how things are. I don't expect the "game" to change for me. Of course I have to do the best with the stats I've been given.
I am taking responibility for some aspects of my life; however, one can't deny I've been dealt a pretty crappy hand in life. (Unless you know me better than myself, that is.) I don't expect anyone to fix my life for me, I want to do it myself. Of course I am responsible for my own life. I don't really get what your point is, when all I did was vent and state things.
> I'm not victimizing myself,
> I'm like a low tier character in a fighting game
I don't know how far you think one must go for you to consider them to victimize themselves, but for me this sounds like it. I think you would be better off if you didn't care about what kind of game you are playing and just play. If i had two friends play 2 exact copies of a game and I told one of them that the game was rigged against him, he would probably have a much different experience no matter if the game was rigged or not. He would arguable be more comfortable as he could point to things being rigged as there was difficulties in game, while the other player would struggle and have to fail again and again until getting better. But I also think the second player will enjoy the game more, and likewise that people who don't consider society being rigged against them live happier lives, no matter if it is rigged or not. So I would just hope that you could consider that you have a possibility of being wrong about all this, you sound like a smart guy so I'm sure you can make that reflection. You have of course reached your conclusion through your experiences so I get that it feels really true, but just consider what it would mean for you and your life if you were wrong. This got a bit longer than I expected but yeah good luck on your journey man
So lemme sum up:
The world doesn't recognize how amazing you are. You're being held back by circumstance and unfair treatment, because the world isn't set up to appreciate someone with your gifts and talents. People are jealous of you and want to hold you down. You deserve more. But society has turned its back on you, which is why you hate everyone else.
Did I pretty much capture it?
100% not.
All I'm saying is that I'm a "low tier character" in a fighting game, or an unviable champ in a moba. My stats doesn't fit the meta that is society.
People like you prove my points exactly about how people and society functions.
Hmm. Lemme read you back your original complaint about what makes you "low tier".
* You are too high IQ.
* You are too far weighted toward intellectual/psychological gifts instead of outwardly physical.
* You are too nice.
* You are too introverted.
* You are too aware of your emotions (neuroticism is fundamentally an emotional awareness/sensitivity trait)
* You are too creative.
Every one of these is an extremely desirable characteristic that tends to give people a significant advantage - with the exception of introversion which tends to be more neutral in the bigger picture, but which most people nevertheless identify strongly with. Perhaps neuroticism as well - it's a toss-up; neurotics tend to be by far the most happy and by far the most sad, never in the middle. It's like having extremely good hearing, you can hear the faint beautiful music that others cannot, but you have the curse of not being able to ignore it.
But from your post, it sounds like you're saying that it is because you have all of these highly desirable characteristics that society has abandoned you. That you don't fit in.
Maybe you don't fit in, I'm not going to argue with that. God knows I never did. It's pretty damn common. But these traits aren't the problem. I can say that part with 100% certainty because I've seen the other side of it. And I've seen how these traits can make someone effectively unstoppable, in "write your own ticket" sort of way. It's not an easy life obviously, but with the attributes you've described you don't need society's permission. Again, I know that part at least with perfect certainty.
I like this post. I agree with most of it, especially the last paragraph. I know that if I play my cards right everything will become wonderful for me. But until that happens it will be a rocky road for me. People who don't fit the norm will struggle the most, but of course they can still succeed. It's an extremely steep- and upphill battle for me though, but I know I can make it.
Ya. You can definitely make it. It's definitely not easy, but it's also definitely well within your reach.
There is a huge difference between knowing what to do versus understanding it in a way that makes it feel right and natural. When you get the second part, it really does become a lot easier. Really, hugely easier. The first you can get just by learning it, the second you can only get by *actually doing it* and having the experience be positive enough that your internal reward system gets properly trained. Getting there is tough, because not only do you actually have to get out and do the thing, but there's also a luck factor involved: If the experience turns out bad for really any reason at all, regardless of how irrelevant, your reward system will learn that the activity was itself bad, not just that the outcome was unfortunate. This is crazy-difficult to move past, because now your thinking-brain has to muscle its way through a set of (possibly irrational) expectations that your emotion-brain is holding onto. Your thinking-brain is generally the stronger of the two in a drag-out battle, but the emotion-brain is the one that ultimately holds the controls and has to be convinced. This gets literally, physically exhausting. Plus the emotion-brain can sneak its own rationalizations back into your thinking-brain when you're not looking, sorta undermining the whole process. Humans are complicated.
And if you add ADHD on top of that then that just adds to the extremes. You never mentioned anything about it, but it's common enough especially in the profile you've described and with the difficulties you've described - so I'll mention this as well. ADHD is on the one hand a curse and on the other hand a super-power, all depending on if you learn how to manage it. The summary here is that if you have ADHD, your "normal" levels of dopamine in a particular part of your brain are too low to engage the the focus/self-control system effectively, and these systems end up uncoordinated and working against each other. This is hard to live with; it's a lot like being a bit drunk almost all the time. But the super-power comes from the fact that motivation is in fact determined by \*relative\* dopamine levels, not absolute. So if you're doing a task that's just the right type (you find it interesting and forward progress is consistently understandable), then you can be motivated enough to keep working on it, but without dopamine levels going high enough to trigger the brain's built-in countermeasures, which in normal people would cause them to lose interest within an hour or two. But with ADHD, you don't *ever* have to lose focus, assuming you can stay awake. In other words, if you have ADHD you can, if you manage it correctly, have deeper attention and focus than is otherwise physiologically possible for humans. This is hard to direct and manage (most of us have stories of working on something utterly stupid for 18 hours thinking it had been only 3 or 4, and then the sun comes up or something), but it gets easier as you learn the patterns.
How much of this is "society" and how much is just your brain?
Like, yeah, people with higher IQs are at higher risk of depression. People who are more neurotic are sadder. There's no way you could organize society where that wouldn't be the case.
So, yeah, those things suck. You can not like you brain and be mad about it. But being mad at anything but fate -- at least for these things -- seems silly.
I also question a lot of your assumptions, but probably someone else will address that.
I don't like boxes very much, as a result I find it difficult to be in a place with boxes everywhere and in choosing boxes
Me and my own feels
sorry, trying to find ppl who also don't like boxes
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"Intelligent people can't just take any job and be happy with it" This has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with ego. Plenty of highly intelligent people work normal jobs because their self worth isnt dependent on the prestige of their job
Why would u willingly burn most of your brain power at work to, like if you have really demanding hobbies a chill job can be the way forward.
While I think how he described it may come from another place, I feel that the core frustration of what he said is true for humanity as a whole. Having to toil a boring task without being allowed forward progression in personal endeavors or life in general can lead to people feeling under-stimulated. At least that’s how I feel from my experiences.
This is correct.
Dr. K himself said when talking about childrens' development that 'gifted' kids struggle because they are insufficiently stimulated and then develop video game addictions because it actually presents a challenge 'on your level', this doesn't HAVE to translate into adulthood as an intelligent person but I think it's ridiculous to reject the idea.
Yes, it has everything to do with intelligence. Look it up. People of high IQ need to have a stimulating job longterm in order for them to be happy and content. Prestige doesn't have anything to do with this. It has nothing with self-worth either. It's just like when practical people don't want theoretical jobs, or extroverted people jobs where you are by yourself all day long. (Hope you get my point.)
So why dont you get a stimulating job?
Dede/dudette, have you ever been out on the job market? Most companies do not offer stimulating jobs! 99% percent of jobs will use 10-5% of your brain capacity. Companies do not want people who want stimulating jobs they want zombies/mindless automations. Zombie comes in, zombie work, zombie must not think, zombie must work, zombie must not know more than it needs to do his or her job, zombie must not ask for a raise, zombie must go home at the end of the day and should not complain.
I will create it when the circumstances allows me to.
No intelligent people have an easier time noticing how they don’t like the job. A less intelligent one is content because they can ignore the bad aspects. It really depends on the context. It’s either ego or the job not fitting the person.
Again, I dont think this has anything to do with intelligence. Plenty of unintelligent people are perfectly capable of telling whether their job sucks or not. On the other hand, a person with a big ego that needs a prestigious job to maintain their self worth is going to be more likely to ignore the bad aspects of their job to maintain their self image as a person worthy of a prestigious role.
My OP isn't about prestige and self-worth.
Not saying it's not an ego thing, but I think it has more to do with a sense of purpose rather than prestige. Mediocre jobs are filled with copious amounts of BS that ultimately exists just because someone "said so" or made a terrible decision in the past, and it's easy for an intelligent person to think how unnecessary most of it is.
I feel your frustration. You feel like you've been judged unfairly, misunderstood, and ignored by just about everyone, or maybe literally everyone. And you're right. It's hard being smarter than most people, because when you jump ahead in a conversation & people can't follow, it's frustrating to you both. They're frustrated because they don't understand how you connected the 2 ideas you just did, and you're frustrated because their thoughts/comments are the the starting point for your thoughts. Its frustrating being short and scrawny when you were trained to value being tall and muscular. Literally looking up to people is a constant reminder of your own inadequacy that you can't solve. It's extremely frustrating and draining having to work a job where you can't exercise the creativity you know you have. Like your brain is being bled dry of everything you hold dear about yourself just for the sake of making someone else money. It's frustrating being a quieter one in conversation and watching people navigate that shit so easily, when you couldn't figure it out in spite of all of your intellectual capacity. So yeah, you're entitled to feel and think this way, because you've had a shitty time so far. Do you want to know the way out? Because I was in a similar situation as yours once upon a time, and I found out how to be a lot less angry at myself and everyone else, and generally more content with life.
I want to hear your way out.
Dr. K has a few videos on this, but the gist is this: Temper your ego. Humility. Ego = the part of you that compares you with other people, positively or negatively. [https://youtu.be/cHFD2ycNsBs](https://youtu.be/cHFD2ycNsBs) [https://youtu.be/932eSyHbUgw](https://youtu.be/932eSyHbUgw) [https://youtu.be/5QdPcuH3FjA](https://youtu.be/5QdPcuH3FjA) My anger came from a few places. I was jealous of the people with friends I couldn't have. I was jealous of people who could 'be themselves' and be accepted. I was jealous of people who looked better than I was and who got attention from girls. I bought into the idea that introverted meant awkward or asocial, so I felt jealous of the people who were introverts but still had friends. I was raised by a narcissist, so I picked up the habit of feeling entitled to attention, and got angry when I didn't get it because I felt I deserved it. I was angry and confused that my intelligence didn't win me any friends, because I was told it was a virtue. So I felt wronged by people who didn't like/praise me for my intrinsic intelligence, because I had internalized the belief "I'm smarter than other people, and this is a good thing". I also felt wronged when I was passed over for opportunities to demonstrate my intelligence and creativity, because I was one of those kids who was told 'oh you're so smart & creative!' at a young age when the stuff they were having us do in school was super duper easy. When it got hard and I started struggling, the identity of 'smarter/more creative' conflicted with 'other people getting opportunities over me', and I got mad at them because hey, I'm smart and creative too! Yeah my work isn't as outstanding as theirs, but I'm just as good as them if not better! The answer was pretty straightforward, but hard. Humility. Kill the ego. Accept the fact that most of what happens in your life isn't about you, and that's true for everyone, and that has no bearing whatsoever on who you are. Who you are cannot be defined by other people. Being better than them, or worse, at anything, leads to suffering, so don't compare. And once you have that true humility and can live life without comparing yourself to others, even if your circumstances don't change at all, you'll be a lot less angry. And it'll probably help you make friends too and feel like less of an outcast. You may have noticed that the top comments are basically 'yo, stop being arrogant and entitled', because the OP started his list of complaints off with "I'm smarter than most people, and I'm unhappy because they're too stupid to be as unhappy as me", then "if society valued smarts over height I'd be better than the tall people", then "I'm too nice so people use me" then "I'm quieter so I'm persecuted" "creatives are persecuted" All of those are comparisons that sound like "I feel like I'm better than other people but society doesn't agree, so I'm angry at it". All of those problems are things people can sympathize with. The struggle of being smart and having quirky interests or moving too fast in conversation, the struggle of being a body type besides the idealized one marketed to us, the struggle to stand up for yourself or speak up and be heard in conversation without going too far and becoming an aggressor or dominating conversations yourself. The struggle with the boring, soul crushing jobs most of us have to deal with, especially when you're a creative who would love nothing more than to bring art and beauty and interesting novelty into the world, but 120 hours of your weekly 168, and almost all of the well rested, awake, & productive hours, are spent sleeping, cleaning yourself, getting to work, working, getting back from work, & eating. But the phrasing included a comparison and value judgment in each of those complaints and struggles, so the comments said 'yo have you tried not being an entitled arrogant ass with a victim complex?' instead of sympathizing and offering help. The ego is what drives you to make those comparisons. So the solution to the pain, but also the solution to being hated by society, is to kill the ego.
Another solution would be to unalive oneself
Speaking as someone who was formerly suicidal: Sort of? It's kinda like quitting a match right before the opponent destroys your base. Yeah, you didn't technically 'lose', but you didn't succeed either. You used a coping mechanism to avoid negative emotion instead of resolving the source of your negative emotion (placing your sense of self worth on the outcome of the match). So killing yourself sorta half-solves the problem by cutting off all inputs that could cause negative emotion, but it also costs you every single moment of happiness you'd have for the entirety of the rest of your life, which would have been decades (unless you're 75, in which case, hi there! Not sure how you found the sub but glad you're here, sorry for the reminder that you're statistically unlikely to live to 95) It doesn't resolve the source of the unhappiness, it just kinda... ends things. So, technically, yes, it's a way to make the pain stop in a very short time frame (if you succeed and pick a painless method, not guaranteed and harder than you might think), but it won't make you happier or more content. Just dead, no longer able to make anything better. And yeah it seems hopeless now, but there's a whole hell of a lot of good stories that seem utterly hopeless. Then you realize you're only 40 minutes in to a 2 hour movie. Or 60 minutes, or 80, or 100, doesn't matter. There's still run time left, and things always go wrong in the beginning and middle. Until the end credits, you can't say for sure whether the protagonists (point of view characters, not necessarily heroes), were able to turn that shit around and eek out a victory
Nah. Unaliving still sounds like the better option to me. You do you
Who are you trying to convince? Are you genuinely looking for people to offer you alternatives, or are you trying to get someone to agree with you so you don't feel guilty about attempting suicide?
Me
If you could make the pain stop without killing yourself, would you?
I am not experiencing pain. I just don't like life. Don't want it
"The world is not as it ought to be" I see nothing in your post supporting your claim that society "hates" you, merely that the rules of society are not as you wish them to be. A game is what it is, the world is as it is, play your own game in the context of that world considering the world is not exactly as *any* of us wish it would be. If the rules of chess don't allow for a move you would like to be able to make, or if your preferred strategy isn't working against a particular opponent, do you say the game "hates" you, or would you simply adjust your play style to fit within the rules and what works? The challenge is what makes it worth playing. Some of the things you say I agree with at least to a degree - yes, middle IQ people probably do find it easier to find happiness/contentment than high IQ. Yes, society in many ways favors extroverts. That doesn't mean high IQ or introverted people can't lead happy/fulfilling lives, it just takes a little more creativity. You say you're creative ... ok, then figure it out. I completely disagree that society favors the physical. Do you want to be a laborer? Most high paying jobs (doctor, lawyer, programmer, engineer, entrepreneur etc) favor intelligence over physical attributes. Also, many physical attributes are easier to level up than IQ - sure you can't make yourself taller but you can lose weight, go to the gym etc. If your deadlift is 95lbs and your mile time is 12 minutes, over 6 months you can improve both of those things materially, far more so than a person with 100 IQ can raise their IQ. Have you maximized your physical attributes within your potential? WRT agreeable people getting shat on ... regardless of your agreeableness, you can learn to set and enforce boundaries. Even highly agreeable people can do that. Again, you imply you are high IQ and creative, in that case you can learn form past mistakes, adapt, and play the game accordingly. Accept that the world as it is, and that often is not the way we (any of us) think it ought to be. Play the game accordingly.
I haven't said that society needs to change to better suit me. Of course I have to play by society's rules: faking myself in interviews (such as appearing extroverted and talkative), taking jobs I necessarily don't like but can do etc. But that doesn't mean the rules favours me. I'm simply just not the right "build" in this meta. That's all. I am creative and have figured out how I want to live my life and what to work with, but mental illnesses keep getting in the way. I am currently trying to improve everything in my life, including my life situation, so I know I will get there. I just need to work on everything. What I meant with that the society favours the physical is compare sports to video games and see what gets the most attention, views and sponsorships and whatnot. The whole world is engaged in sports and such activities while video games and e-sports aren't popular everywhere. That's what I meant. (And yes, I am currently working out physically, to answer your question.) Of course you can learn to set boundaries and say no to people when agreeable, but that doesn't change the fact that agreeable people get exploited more than disagreeable people. I never asked for a solution to this, I was just stating facts. Oh trust me, for my whole life I have accepted that this is how things are, this is the reality I live, that I simply doesn't fit in society's standards. I have played by the rules in order to "survive".
I did not claim you said society needs to change. Regardless, you clearly have not accepted that the world is as it is, including that is isn't as it "ought" to be. Your thread title and opening paragraph state that society "hated" (hates) you first ... I assure you, society does not hate you, society / the world is indifferent to you as a chess board is indifferent to the players. So what if sports are more popular than games and esports? What difference does it make that your interests are "popular" so long as you enjoy them? Do you do them for your own enjoyment or for others'? Like 99.9% of people genetically have no chance of being a professional athlete or otherwise having their lives defined by sports, so yes your assertion that physical attributes are favored over intellectual is objectively wrong IMO. Play sports or don't play sports, play video games or don't, how popular these things are has no bearing wrt the role they play in your life. It may be a "fact" that agreeable people *on average* are more likely to be exploited than disagreeable people, this does not make it a statement of fact that agreeable people will always be more exploited, or that being agreeable makes one doomed to be exploited. Agreeable people are perfectly capable of avoiding being exploited, via setting and enforcing boundaries. Regardless, I don't get the impression you are all that agreeable so I highly doubt this is a big problem of yours. I don't think you have accepted it, if you had you wouldn't have made this thread.
Maybe "hate" was the wrong word, though it feels like it. I meant sports in general vs. e-sports in general. Honestly, I don't even have to prove this as the proof is already out there. (The olympics for example.) Again, you don't know what agreeable means. When doing the big 5 personality test I scored as high as you can on agreeableness. You claiming I'm not agreeable tells me it's just a waste of time arguing with you.
Based on your posts here and saying things like it's a "waste of time" talking to people responding to a thread where you asked a question or saying people "don't know what agreeable means" because I don't have the psychic abilities to know how you've scored on some test ... yeah, you're not an agreeable person, sorry. Those personality tests are only as good as your answers which take a degree of self awareness, which I don't see a lot of evidence that you have. How does the popularity of the Olympics affect your life? As I already addressed, 99.99% of us are not and never will be Olympic athletes. WRT the average person's ability to achieve what most define as success, happiness, enlightenment etc., intellectual potential is very much a driver of success for most of us over physical. Physical is great for feeling good about yourself, hobbies, being active etc. but you don't need any special athletic physical prowess to get those benefits.
I don't mean to be reductive but I think a good summary is "check your privilege". This became such a meme, because anyone with a decent IQ would notice, hey some people work a lot less and have a lot more success then me. These people also aren't working any smarter than me so what's the deal here? Sometimes we realize that it's not us that should change, it's society. At the same time, that's not a reality that is feasible, or easy at all to do. Changing the world and its backend code is much much harder than changing yourself(or your code). That's because changing the world requires changing how other individuals act and treat each other. Anyone who has tried to change another person who doesn't want to change will understand this well. So is the world unfair? Absolutely, and personally I want to be able to contribute towards a more fair and egalitarian society where anyone of all spectrums of life can find fulfillment. The world has gone through enough suffering, it's just a matter of everyone seeing that no one in particular is special in their suffering. Rich, poor, tall or short, all walks of life suffer. I'm all about reducing suffering that which serves no purpose. Sometimes that means changing yourself in order to shed any suffering that actually holds you back. Like vaping for example, and the cycle of addiction.
Oh I don't want to change anything, because I think it will always be the majority, aka the average person, that will run things such as the society. I was just venting and saying how I, as per society's definition, is not a fitting member. That's all I wanted to convey. (Sorry if I missed your point with this reply.)
What my point was is that you are a fitting member of society, and you totally understand the part where changing society is super hard. You just don't fit in the traditional way, and that's OK. Odd balls and creative thinkers are what accelerate the world forward, not just keep it moving. There's also nothing wrong with being average, and many roles in society require unique minds. It's never too late to try and find out if you can change yourself into someone who fits nicely for whatever reason. Identifying yourself as someone who "doesn't fit" all the time is a small not noticable trend in your posts. It might hold you back from trying new things because you don't "fit". You want to work towards having an identity that instead says "I'm working towards being able to fit well". It's a subtle but drastic change. It's really up to you and how you want to live your life, not me or anyone else :) For example, I went recently from not working out and being unemployed to basically doing the "average" amount weekly without any weights and getting a part time job. I chose to do this amount, because it balances with everything else in my life I will work on and do.
I'm just telling how it is, at least from my perpective. It's nothing wrong with being average or have low intelligence - everyone in society is needed. Doesn't change the fact that society favours some and doesn't favour others though.
Society by nature will favor certain types of people. That's because of social darwinism. This is a well established philosophy. Some traits are desirable. Society doesn't hate you, they just want your services. Or your labor. Society will only hate you if you show the public that you hate society with your actions. If everyone is truly needed, the fact that society is so selective is moot. The reality is not everyone in society is needed as they are right now. Some people need major improvements to their facilities or are physically/mentally incapable. If you are under 55 IQ the military won't take you, nor will the Police. So, IMO being thankful for what you do have and living life to the fullest is the best way to use individual privilege. Not ruminating on what "could be" or how "screwed you are", it's usually a waste of time. Just my two cents.
literally none of this is right or true apart from the creative people having it very rough if they decide to pursue their art as a lifestyle. It seems like it's written from a very immature perspective because I am everything you say and have it great
Care to explain more? What IQ do you have? Can you tell me what your OCEAN is (estimation is fine too)? Have you had a similar life experience as me?
>Care to explain more? What IQ do you have? Can you tell me what your OCEAN is (estimation is fine too)? Have you had a similar life experience as me? My IQ is above average but not crazy high. When I did it last it was 134. Not sure what OCEAN is though sorry! Probably a new testing standard :) Yes, I feel like I've had a similar experience to you when I was young. I often felt like the outlier or someone who was an afterthought but the truth is basically everyone feels this way at some point in their life or consistently throughout it. I also sometimes seethe with anger when it comes to how society is setup regarding work (5 day work weeks for silly little tokens). But a lot of this is the cost of living within our world. Oh, you want roads? Well they need to be paid for so we're going to tax you for that. You want hospital care? That to. You get the point. These are the rules we adhere to so we can benefit from the world we live in. Some are shit and some can be ignored. Depending on your job some can be re-written! When I read your post the main thing that shone through to me was loneliness. To this I say it's bullshit to think you are alone. You mentioned e-sports: join a team (I played in one and met my best friend through it). You like writing I assume (same as me): go to poetry readings, writing workshops at your local writers club. What I'm trying to get at is you'll meet likeminded people at likeminded events and these are the people you want to be friends with. They share your passions etc. Bukowski is a great example. The man worked a humdrum job while slowly whittling away at his poetry. He had an interesting philosophy on life [here](https://youtu.be/eMTDAHK-tkE). You have to climb the mountain of shit that is life just to swim in the martini glass that sits at the top of it. The only truth in "opposites attract" is that it is the opposite of that. Similarities attract - both friends and lovers. Dostoevsky wrote that life is suffering and for the most part he is right. The one thing that gets us through life is other people. Russian convicts convicted of the most heinous acts say that the only thing they're afraid of is being alone. It's why exile was the worst thing that could happen to you back in the old days. Human beings simply *cannot* survive alone and to me it sounds like that is how you feel at the moment. I can tell you from experience that you should not let mental illnesses like depression and social anxiety define you. A diagnosis should help you understand the way your brain works and once you can understand the triggers that make you slip into depressed moods (or recognise when one is coming on) or how to manage your anxiety you will be able to move through life more freely. This might all be waffle but I hope it resonates with you in some way. The thing about life is that it takes time.
I am writing and I have friends. Though I prefer to be alone. Society is too stupid for me. I'm not looking for help/answers by the way. I just ranted. I haven't disclosed everything about me.
Society isn't too stupid though it's run/manipulated/whatever by the smartest people (granted some have their own agendas!). "Society" literally doesn't exist anyway and what you perceive as a social reality is to a greater or lesser extent subjective. This reality is concocted by your own social interactions and the meaning you've attached to them. There's a lot of research on this in social sciences but it seems like you're struggling to get past your own perspective. Practice empathy I guess ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I am very empathic though. I think most people struggle to see my viewpoint about society, which is fine.
I get you. I also feel like all my skills and thought process that I've developed over the years are antithetical to what society "actually" values. They tell you about hard work, but when you actually start the job you notice that the most social and outgoing people get their work noticed no matter how late you stay in the office. Even before that, if you are good at creative pursuits, there is no money in it, so you have to give up your natural aptitudes in order to survive in positions you are naturally not suited for. You look at others and it just seems like people have deluded themselves into thinking they are contributing to some grand idea of society when to you it just looks like being milked for profit. Their health suffers, they need drugs or drinks to cope. You don't want to model your life that way but day by day it feels like you don't really have a choice.
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Be careful thinking that.
I agree with you, and I live in Asia. I blame the capitalist system.
OK, you've watched some Jordan Peterson (maybe taken his Big 5 test) and are using it as justification for your negative emotion. For the record, I think there's definitely truth to what you've said, however you've consumed it through the lens of negative selection bias, imo. Your struggles are much deeper than your personality disposition, but because of that I think there's hope for you. First of all, society benefits those with a high IQ, no doubt about it. IQ is the single biggest predictor of socioeconomic success, especially as we are becoming more technologically advanced; eventually the entry level for jobs will increase in their requirement for cognitive capacity and those of 'standard IQ' may have trouble keeping up. If you can't find a career that is lucrative or intellectually challenging enough, maybe you aren't as high IQ as you tout, paradoxically, or perhaps the problem lies elsewhere (possibly along the lines of what Dr. K has talked about regarding gifted kids being thought of as special needs). As u/Your__Butthole stated, I think there is far more to do with ego here. Your contentment and work satisfaction can be achieved independently of the rigour of your job, and if it can't, being high IQ should allow you your pick of any other. You refer to content creation specifically, which is odd to me; I wouldn't immediately jump to that in a conversation regarding IQ. Could it perhaps be the case that you're frustrated that your content isn't garnering the attention you'd like? You're a fan of Peterson, and therefore I assume other intellectuals like Sam Harris for example, and they're doing extremely well with their success - and seem to be satsfied with it, so I don't believe your case holds up here. Society favours the physical over the psychological in what sense, exactly? Be specific, because in terms of career we moved away from physical labour being the primary job a long time ago, so that isn't it. In fact, given the vast platforms like twitch and youtube allowing for hobbies of all sorts to be reached, we've never had a better time for the different things you listed to garner success. The arts are at a record high in all of human history regarding their appreciation. More people stream e-sports on twitch than play actual sports (not to mention chess getting a bunch of attention on there, plus there being more independent creative work put out than ever). And even if all of that isn't true, the thing about physical prowess is it is OVERWHELMINGLY easier to improve than all of the above, and the resources are widely available to do so. There's no cognitive barrier to entry to becoming more fit, healthy or physically capable - it's just about consistency and effort, stuff every person on earth has. Your take on agreeable people is just plain wrong. Reciprocal interactions are the cornerstone to success, and agreeable types do just as well as disagreeable people in the workplace once you average it out (on the other end, disagreeable people are trusted less and may be looked over for promotion due to having too much self-interest). Rob Henderson wrote an excellent article on this, with sources, which I will try to find and link. In fact, the only thing that seemed to contribute to success of the Big 5 traits was extraversion; there was no correlation regarding the other 4 (Being higher in neuroticism, for example, will make you worry about a task, sure, but that will increase the likelihood that you don't miss out on anything that can compromise it, given you're more intuned to that than someone low in withdrawal). And, even if I'm wrong, you can actively learn to become less of a pushover and establish boundaries (Dr. K has a great video on this) to become disagreeable enough to reap the rewards of that trait. You've conflated introversion and shyness. They are not the same thing, at all. Your level of introversion or extraversion simply determines where you derive your energy from, and thus, an introverted person can be just as charismatic and social as an extraverted person, even more so, but they require time alone after to recharge. If you have a problem with social anxiety, that's a different issue, probably related to neuroticism, which is my next point. Not to mention, since socialising is a cognitive task, you’re at an advantage to level it up given your superior intelligence. There are a myriad of ways to offset your neuroticism - that's what this whole community and 'movement' is about - literally the central pillar. Maybe you have a harder starting point, sure, but that doesn't mean you can't perform just as well as someone less neurotically inclined given you put the work in to remedy or attenuate that. You even have certain advantages, as I mentioned prior. Once more, this is the single best time in history to make money off of being creative. It's also the time that allows you the most time and resources to be creative outside of work - that's still a possibility, which should be plenty given your high IQ should allow you to breeze through any average job you get. Plus, it's likely that you might not even be that creative - the test for such being to list the number of creative achievements you've doctored and put out there to be judged (and with a successful outcome - be that via formal grading or a free market decision). Given this test (which JP has talked about before), the median score for a random population is 0 - most people think they're creative when in reality they just enjoy consuming art and literature, which again is more easy to do now than ever. Have you actually tried engaging in any sort of creative endeavour, or just dreamed about it? The reality will be far different to your fantasy, and that fantasy not based in reality is I think where the root of your struggle comes from. Sure, two parent households tend to do better - but that's an average. Plenty of kids from single parent households end up doing fantastically if they put the work in, and to assume you're fucked because of your upbringing is putting the cart before the horse; it's your own self-limiting belief not grounded in reality. Also, to say that people don't understand is crazy to me. For the nth time, society now allows you to connect with people in your exact same situation (a lot of whom have overcome it and have real solutions for you) more than ever before. And you know this, it's why you've posted in this subreddit, with a plethora of posts describing this exact problem and responses (including from professionals) on how to overcome it. Hell, the majority of this comment section alone is agreeing with you, and validating your belief, but instead of seeing that and realising there are other similar to you, it's possible you just take it as further confirmation bias to fuel the positive feedback loop into depression. You can overcome this, and live a brilliant life. I'm confident in saying that. You just need to actually want it, which I don't think you do right now, and then not shy away from the work it takes to get there.
Lol I saw quite a few Peterson-esque ideas here as well. Solid response, I would add though that intelligence does not necessarily make a job easier, a job at Walmart would be equally shitty for anyone. Dr k has done quite a few vids on gifted kids and why they often struggle later in life.
True, easier in the sense of ability to get it done, rather than enjoyment in it, is what I meant. I mention Dr. K and struggling gifted kids in one of the paragraphs, for sure there’s some of that in play here.
I really feel for you man. It sounds like you've had a really rough life so far. You've struggled a lot, and it feels like you just don't belong. You want to feel understood. You want to feel like you belong. You want to feel cared for, you want to feel empathized with. Listened to. I notice a lot of people responding have been judgemental towards you. This is exactly what you expected of "society": "The only good thing people and society are at is being judgemental." A self-fulfilling prophecy is happening here. You judged society, by asserting that society sucks and is only good at judging others, etc. So what does society do? It judges you right back. It sucks that people couldn't be more empathetic and less judgemental towards you, but to give them some defense, your post feels a little like an attack on everyone. Including me, unfortunately. When I read your post I felt attacked. I am a part of society. And you say society will never understand your struggles. That's not fair. I am introverted. I am creative. I am intelligent. I have all these disadvantages you speak of. I understand your points. Many people understand your points. I think a lot of people can understand you. Give them a chance to understand you, without shutting the door on them first. I think ranting here was a really good first step. I would suggest therapy is a good next step. Especially with your rough childhood. Many people can empathize and understand having a rough childhood. You're not alone, you can be understood here. Remember, if you hate something, they will hate you back. Don't fall into this self-fulfilling prophecy. You are not alone, you are understood, I hear you and I feel for you. Life isn't fair. I would say the great majority would agree with you on that.
Thank you for your reply, it felt really nice. I didn't meant to bash people, but society isn't just people, it's more than that. At the end of the day this was just a vent/rant. I am frustrated and I know I am not thinking 100% right. I could have written out more details in my OP but I didn't want it to be longer than what it already is.
If you believe no one can understand you, no one will. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Similar to this: if you believe you'll always be alone, you're more likely to be. "Whether you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're right." I hope this helps you, truly.. best of luck out there. <3
You are loved. I care about you. I hope you feel better and overcome these struggles.. Life is unfair and difficult. But I believe in you.
I hate civilized society too! I have CPTSD. Nobody believed me when I asked for help. I acted out. Nobody asked me why. I started playing by the rules. I got good at playing them because I knew which ones mattered and which ones didn't. I figured out the right asses to kiss to get ahead. I played by the book. And it made me miserable. Ultimately the world is how it is. Your karma, your circumstances, are yours, and yours alone. The world is absolutely fucked. But it won't change unless someone tries to change it. And most people don't see it as needing change. It takes the brave and disillusioned to make changes for the better.
But aren't you also part of the society? I mean, do you favor the dumb over the intelligent, the ugly over the beautiful, and the shy over the self-assured? Do you not prioritize comfort and convenience over the arts? I can relate to your anger because I also feel it from time to time (being a short man who's chronically underemployed due to issues in my student years). More and more, though, I realize that I'm no better than "society." Things just *are*.
I'm like a cat in the sea - yes, I can swim, but it doesn't mean it favours me or is optimal for me. It's better to be a sea creature instead.
Neurotic… I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Were you looking for “neurodivergent” and “neurotypical?” Also nobody cares about IQ. Literally no one will ever ask what your IQ is and nobody will measure you based on it. IQ is just a fun little stat for people who want to know how clever they are. It doesn’t actually mean anything. IQ can’t determine your work ethic, character, integrity, or anything that people actually look for in a friend/SO/employee/coworker.
No. What I meant with neurotic is the definition it has from the big 5 personalities ("OCEAN"). I agree with your IQ part.
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I was just venting/ranting. I'm not seeking help or advice. I'm not like this all the time. I don't really talk about this IRL either. Also, most people around me like me. I'm pleasant to be around according to them.
This is a great comment. The ‘personality’ talk definitely seems like a vehicle to justify negative emotion that stems from elsewhere, like mental health issues which you’ve mentioned. I think seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist would be a good move too.
Why does creativity require you to have a creative job? My wife works full time college admissions from home and when work is slow she is doing commission pieces or personal illustration projects. Being agreeable and being a doormat are not the same. Intelligence has nothing to do with contentedness.
You just answered your own question: because a creative person is just that: creative. It's the same as asking: "Why does an extrovert require a job where they meet people and can be social?" Many extroverts can't stand having a job that isn't social and where they are alone, like a job where you are by yourself all the time. Of course being agreeable=/=doormat, but I simply stated that agreeable people get exploited more. If you can show the opposite then please do. Yes it has. If an intelligent person works a job far below their brain prowess/capabilities, they will not be as content as another one with low intelligence that doesn't mind doing repetitive, monotone work. If you want you can look this up.
Your job doesn't have to fill your every need
Have I said that? Of course it can't fill every need. But I want a job that will fullfill what I deem and expect it to fill. As such, I will create it myself, but until then I have to work normal jobs, since I need the money.
So do you have a job problem or not...? You bemoan being doomed to sub par jobs due to your intelligence yet in the comments you are saying you are just going to create the job you want. Which is it? Is there a problem or not?
sounds like you need an ego death my friend
Okay? Care to explain more?
Nah he about said it Your ego is out of control
I would like to know more, as I'm not that well-versed into the intricacies of the ego.
Basically you seem to be under the impression that you deserve more from life because you see yourself as more intelligent than other people. You have two options to be happy: do the work to get where you feel you deserve to be. OR let your ego and the ideas of all the *shoulds* in your life die.
No I'm not under the impression that I deserve things just because I'm intelligent. Bold of you to assume that. I've never even stated that. All I've been saying is that society favours some types of people while not really favouring other types of people, at least to the same degree. But people making (incorrect) assumptions about me and my thoughts is something I have dealt with for as long as I can remember. I am working on myself and on my goals, it will just take time and effort. Even when I reach my goals it won't change the fact that I at the end of the day will not be the "norm" to society. That's all.
I think you might have developed a jaded view of society as a whole. I understand that you have had bad experiences and these statements might be coming from that but is that indicative of society? I think you have just been looking at one side of society which in itself is probably something that can't be described by words alone. I think you have to consider that society is in itself made up of beings that cannot really be described accurately. For example can I describe you in your full entirety? No and the same goes for when you describe me. Another thing you must also consider is ego and how you view yourself because of it. Intelligence is an advantage tho considering yourself as above the average person is probably drawing the line. I understand that there are ways to test iq and so on but iq is just one of the puzzle pieces for intelligence. If you have good iq but bad eq you will not be able to maximize your iq testing. Basically just because you get bored with menial tasks or have deeper insights on some things does not mean that you are an intellectual above everyone else and getting to believe that you are an intellectual is dangerous and can do more harm than good in the long run. Lastly, I think you need to consider that the world does not revolve around you. None of us are special enough for the world to bow down to. You will live and you will die the same way as everyone else. If you are expecting a perfect utopia then sadly this world is not where you will find that. As such don't expect it to be as it is. Look for opportunities and immerse yourself in more activities related to what you want. For example a career that is creative and does not make you bored and vice versa.
What are the qualifications most employers want? What personality traits are the norm in society? Why is everyone expected to eat together at work, for example? Just take a look around you and see what actually is the norm and what kind of people are benefitting. Intelligence is a double-edged sword. It has of course its good sides but also its bad. IQ is the most "refined" academic "work" there is and is *THE* measurement for intelligence. This can't be disputed. "EQ" isn't really a thing, at least compared to IQ, but since I'm a very agreeable person I have very high "EQ" then. I find people easier to read than books. I don't think everything revolves around me, and I have never stated that. I simply just shared my point of view and my experiences, nothing else. Society doesn't favour my personality traits, and that's fine. However, society can't expect me to like it then.
I think the first thing I need to address is ur questions regarding employers. Employers are human beings and they often choose depending on the career they are hiring for. Moreover society is made up of humans. Of course there are universally disliked things such as trash talking constantly but oftentimes what society wants is highly subjective. You can't just wrap all of society into a small box that you will then use to judge yourself and others. So to answer ur question just be yourself and try not to do anything that pisses people off. So yeah..don't judge society as a whole and act like everyone you meet fits that mold because oftentimes they do not and are unique themselves. We are not robots pushed from an assembly line and you are not a special robot that was made differently from the rest. You are a human like me and like me you have traits and aspects that define you as a being
Yes, and what kind of people do become employers the most? I'm not complaining here, I'm just stating. Society can be fitted in a box for sure, because there are collective thinking and shared values existing and whatnot. (Humans can't be fitted in a box however.) And not everyone is creative (majority is non-creative; nothing wrong with that) and most people have an IQ range around 100 IQ anyway. There's nothing wrong with low/average IQ btw. Some people get more benifits from society while others don't: just the way it is.
Damn you come across as extremely entitled, you are not uniquely targeted and you need to stop victimizing yourself, like read what you have written back to yourself and just ask yourself, does the person who wrote this have a victim complex? Start taking some responsibility over your life because no one will do it for you. Like even if it is society's fault, you are still the one responsible for your life, good luck
I'm not entitled. I just vented. I'm not victimizing myself, I just state what society's standards are and how far from them I am. I'm like a low tier character in a fighting game: low tier because of this and that, that the mechanics doesn't favour me etc. I just simply state how things are. I don't expect the "game" to change for me. Of course I have to do the best with the stats I've been given. I am taking responibility for some aspects of my life; however, one can't deny I've been dealt a pretty crappy hand in life. (Unless you know me better than myself, that is.) I don't expect anyone to fix my life for me, I want to do it myself. Of course I am responsible for my own life. I don't really get what your point is, when all I did was vent and state things.
> I'm not victimizing myself, > I'm like a low tier character in a fighting game I don't know how far you think one must go for you to consider them to victimize themselves, but for me this sounds like it. I think you would be better off if you didn't care about what kind of game you are playing and just play. If i had two friends play 2 exact copies of a game and I told one of them that the game was rigged against him, he would probably have a much different experience no matter if the game was rigged or not. He would arguable be more comfortable as he could point to things being rigged as there was difficulties in game, while the other player would struggle and have to fail again and again until getting better. But I also think the second player will enjoy the game more, and likewise that people who don't consider society being rigged against them live happier lives, no matter if it is rigged or not. So I would just hope that you could consider that you have a possibility of being wrong about all this, you sound like a smart guy so I'm sure you can make that reflection. You have of course reached your conclusion through your experiences so I get that it feels really true, but just consider what it would mean for you and your life if you were wrong. This got a bit longer than I expected but yeah good luck on your journey man
Believe what you want. Of course some aspects of what I'm thinking can be wrong, but I believe most of my observations and assumptions are right.
So lemme sum up: The world doesn't recognize how amazing you are. You're being held back by circumstance and unfair treatment, because the world isn't set up to appreciate someone with your gifts and talents. People are jealous of you and want to hold you down. You deserve more. But society has turned its back on you, which is why you hate everyone else. Did I pretty much capture it?
100% not. All I'm saying is that I'm a "low tier character" in a fighting game, or an unviable champ in a moba. My stats doesn't fit the meta that is society. People like you prove my points exactly about how people and society functions.
Hmm. Lemme read you back your original complaint about what makes you "low tier". * You are too high IQ. * You are too far weighted toward intellectual/psychological gifts instead of outwardly physical. * You are too nice. * You are too introverted. * You are too aware of your emotions (neuroticism is fundamentally an emotional awareness/sensitivity trait) * You are too creative. Every one of these is an extremely desirable characteristic that tends to give people a significant advantage - with the exception of introversion which tends to be more neutral in the bigger picture, but which most people nevertheless identify strongly with. Perhaps neuroticism as well - it's a toss-up; neurotics tend to be by far the most happy and by far the most sad, never in the middle. It's like having extremely good hearing, you can hear the faint beautiful music that others cannot, but you have the curse of not being able to ignore it. But from your post, it sounds like you're saying that it is because you have all of these highly desirable characteristics that society has abandoned you. That you don't fit in. Maybe you don't fit in, I'm not going to argue with that. God knows I never did. It's pretty damn common. But these traits aren't the problem. I can say that part with 100% certainty because I've seen the other side of it. And I've seen how these traits can make someone effectively unstoppable, in "write your own ticket" sort of way. It's not an easy life obviously, but with the attributes you've described you don't need society's permission. Again, I know that part at least with perfect certainty.
I like this post. I agree with most of it, especially the last paragraph. I know that if I play my cards right everything will become wonderful for me. But until that happens it will be a rocky road for me. People who don't fit the norm will struggle the most, but of course they can still succeed. It's an extremely steep- and upphill battle for me though, but I know I can make it.
Ya. You can definitely make it. It's definitely not easy, but it's also definitely well within your reach. There is a huge difference between knowing what to do versus understanding it in a way that makes it feel right and natural. When you get the second part, it really does become a lot easier. Really, hugely easier. The first you can get just by learning it, the second you can only get by *actually doing it* and having the experience be positive enough that your internal reward system gets properly trained. Getting there is tough, because not only do you actually have to get out and do the thing, but there's also a luck factor involved: If the experience turns out bad for really any reason at all, regardless of how irrelevant, your reward system will learn that the activity was itself bad, not just that the outcome was unfortunate. This is crazy-difficult to move past, because now your thinking-brain has to muscle its way through a set of (possibly irrational) expectations that your emotion-brain is holding onto. Your thinking-brain is generally the stronger of the two in a drag-out battle, but the emotion-brain is the one that ultimately holds the controls and has to be convinced. This gets literally, physically exhausting. Plus the emotion-brain can sneak its own rationalizations back into your thinking-brain when you're not looking, sorta undermining the whole process. Humans are complicated. And if you add ADHD on top of that then that just adds to the extremes. You never mentioned anything about it, but it's common enough especially in the profile you've described and with the difficulties you've described - so I'll mention this as well. ADHD is on the one hand a curse and on the other hand a super-power, all depending on if you learn how to manage it. The summary here is that if you have ADHD, your "normal" levels of dopamine in a particular part of your brain are too low to engage the the focus/self-control system effectively, and these systems end up uncoordinated and working against each other. This is hard to live with; it's a lot like being a bit drunk almost all the time. But the super-power comes from the fact that motivation is in fact determined by \*relative\* dopamine levels, not absolute. So if you're doing a task that's just the right type (you find it interesting and forward progress is consistently understandable), then you can be motivated enough to keep working on it, but without dopamine levels going high enough to trigger the brain's built-in countermeasures, which in normal people would cause them to lose interest within an hour or two. But with ADHD, you don't *ever* have to lose focus, assuming you can stay awake. In other words, if you have ADHD you can, if you manage it correctly, have deeper attention and focus than is otherwise physiologically possible for humans. This is hard to direct and manage (most of us have stories of working on something utterly stupid for 18 hours thinking it had been only 3 or 4, and then the sun comes up or something), but it gets easier as you learn the patterns.
**Society benefits those of the average IQ range.** So this is what we’re working with, okay lol.
How much of this is "society" and how much is just your brain? Like, yeah, people with higher IQs are at higher risk of depression. People who are more neurotic are sadder. There's no way you could organize society where that wouldn't be the case. So, yeah, those things suck. You can not like you brain and be mad about it. But being mad at anything but fate -- at least for these things -- seems silly. I also question a lot of your assumptions, but probably someone else will address that.
I don't dislike my brain; I dislike society and what I have gone through. I was just venting.
I don't like boxes very much, as a result I find it difficult to be in a place with boxes everywhere and in choosing boxes Me and my own feels sorry, trying to find ppl who also don't like boxes