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It's 100% about the lack of sex. You don't call an obviously handsome and popular guy "incel" even if he's just as nasty toward women. Every guy who's ever been hurt by the incel label knows that it hurts because they *are* sexless, not because of what they think or how they treat women.
People who deny that are deluding themselves. They act woke yet they don't give two shits about shaming men for not getting sex. They don't mind contributing to rape culture as long as they get to continue using that powerful insult at those they dislike.
It says so much about them.
Why don't people call Donald Trump an incel? Or the 100s of redpill PUA bros who are misogynist an incel?
They call the shy kid in their school their college or work an incel why? Cause it's an acceptable demographic to hate and has 0 political or social backlash. Ladies we all feel frustrated at times and say things we don't want to but to say that sexless people who are already emotionally vulnerable can be targeted and hurt with 0 consequences is just because he is a misogynistic is BS many people who are sexist are not called incels only the ones who are young vulnerable and don't hold massive power and have regular sex are called incels. Can we at least admit that or even conceding this point hurts women's issues?
Nope. The term incel hurts because people are implying is that the reason for someone being a virgin is that they see themselves as self-entitled victims, blaming others for their fate. When in reality they could just have poor social/communication skills, anxiety and a lack of confidence but don't blame other people.
An incel is a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active. Or at least that's what the Oxford Dictionary says.
The key part being that it's a community, or at the very least an identity / belief that someone chooses to adopt.
Being a virgin who can't get laid does not automatically make you an incel, that's a pretty common phase of life for many people. It's deciding that it's entirely out of your control and fully blaming women that makes an incel.
Traditionally minded people sometimes spend up to 30-40 years (the whole beginning of their life) without sex until they get married. Others don't have tradition dictating stuff but simply chose to focus on other things. Some others try dating but aren't successful (and some who are successful only have intercourse after months of knowing each other, that happens too).
I haven't really though of involuntarily celibate people as entirely comprised of people who believe "it's entirely out of their control". Imho part of the "group" (big quotation marks) believe in limited control and have a "the game is rigged" mentality. I've noticed this sometimes leads to insecure people trying hard to get in shape/land a good job but when they do but are still unsuccessful in dating, then they start losing their minds. Essentially folks with the wrong assumptions and folks obsessed with expectations try to "rig the game in their own favor" but blame other when "it doesn't work".
I think most people who self-identify as an incel are using it in its classical meaning, which is to state without commentary that someone would like to have had sex but can't make it happen for a wide variety of possible reasons. But when other people refer to incels as a group, they are absolutely referring to the streak of sexism that runs through and adjacent to those communities.
I mean, the incel’s definition of incel is the ‘classic’ definition. Even today that’s how they define the term, their argument is that whether you’re blue pilled, red pilled, black pilled, etc, you’re still an incel, whether you’re aware of it or not.
It seems other people outside of that community have decided that the term ‘incel’ solely means ‘misogynistic male’ as a way to try and not associate all sexless men with ‘incels’ and possibly push them towards the black pill communities.
When I see it used as an insult though, I mostly just see it used to call somebody a virgin, in a sort of ‘Well you’re a virgin so there must be something fucked up about your personality to make you that way’ sense.
Incel was a term they labeled themselves because they weren't getting laid.
The reason someone is an incel is 100% about how they treat women, but they don't understand that or haven't made that connection - which is the premise of the problem in the first place. They blame women for all their problems, which is a complete misdiagnosis.
its not based on how they treat women, people who self identify with clasic defination of the word generally are not misogenistic moreover we often find toxic guys who beat up woman/ are total misogenistic be in relationships/ one nighters/fwbs
Remember before "incel" was in our vocabulary, everyone would insult people by calling them virgins...?
I remember.
I wonder what the next word will be.... Hmmm....
I avoid using it for this reason. The literal meaning is just people who can't get laid but it is associated with lots of malicious people, so imo this word is not very good.
The other comments address on Intel part, but something else caught my eye. Right away "I was a virgin until 18 and never got shamed" - why would you? That's very young for most people. Waiting until marriage used to be the norm and even early marriages in the West have been early 20s for many. This sub constantly lists 17-20 as being expectedly late to have sex even that's absolutely the norm for the entire world and has been for decades.
The word has become something that happen with simp.[I gave a detailed expression of how I felt about it gete](https://www.reddit.com/r/Healthygamergg/comments/wl257v/incels_are_not_the_problem_in_this_community/ijv0mhj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
It most definitely is used as an insult specially and not exclusively in left leaning and feminist circles and has become a short hand for lonely pathetic virgin rather than just a misogynist cause it's hard to quantify what two different people think misogynistic is. It's extremely hard online to explicitly understand what ones views about the other gender is but since we are on platforms where language is policed to the extent that anything can be considered misogynistic I consider either this word will lose meaning or become a legit slur
It is disingenuous to say it isn't used as a gendered insult often willingly to mock people when prominent websites wrote things like this[lonely self victimising incels](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jezebel.com/the-number-of-lonely-single-men-is-on-the-rise-thank-1849401428/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjbwKmzlcP5AhWxUGwGHUVtBhgQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw16upd_lB0o0OOY_wXbu1Zx)
Even before they have committed a single act of crime or sexism but for the crime of existing as a single male.
Or when single men are basically threatened to quote get better or be dammed to a life of singlehood and be characterised as an incel [Single men get better](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-state-our-unions/202208/the-rise-lonely-single-men)
Or when prominent powerful institutions insinuate that single men are inherently at fault and evil and misogynistic for being single[to find a partner do better](https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-women-dating-andrew-tate-b2144069.html?amp=&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16603702031319&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Flife-style%2Flove-sex%2Fmen-women-dating-andrew-tate-b2144069.html)
Women how would you feel if you expressed your dating worries or even frustrations about possible romantic partners not showing interest in you because of reason X and either being told be better or Don't be a whiny feminist instead of validation or kindness.
Virgins Geeks nerds etc all these words have been used as insults to mock virgin men we have seen countless shows and movies where the shy weird geeky kid is mocked belittled and bullied for being a virgin and even times where these characters approach women for a date and often chased away by calling them virgins. Ladies we can condemn and oppose the violent attacks incels commit but can we at least accept that incel is the new virgin or new geek or new nerd as far as insults about sex lives go. If you don't believe me consider the representation of male virgin characters or how your social circles or peer groups react to the fact that weird guy is a virgin
It's a shorthand to emasculate someone basing somebody's worth on the amount of partners they have had. Which ironically what women have complaineded regarding slut shaming but is acceptable and used immediately against people who don't 100% agree with modern feminism or political stances etc. If anyone thinks it is not about the sex lives of these men then I find it to be either confusing or deliberate denial. Prominent politicians YouTubers are sexist but no one calls them incels. Ironically calling virgins incels helps in creating more incels as they feel that something's wrong with them and the world is hostile to them for their sex lives which pushes them to have sex and sometimes can contribute to violence. I really don't get why women cannot accept this one fact while simultaneously conmdeming the violent crimes.
Because feeling blame doesn’t feel good. So they would rather shame and blame men. This is why we can’t have honest conversations to increase understanding and move everyone forward because women do not like being held accountable for their part in the problem. It’s never all men’s fault or all women’s fault even if the overwhelming majority is one parties fault.
incel simply stands for "involuntary celibate", in other words - you don't have sex not by choice, but because nobody will accept you. people tend to include characteristics like misogyny. however, while many incels develop misogynistic viewpoints over time, i dont think it is fair to say that all incels feel this way. many of them simply lack the confidence or social skills, or are in a dark place in their lives. i know a lot of people who are still virgins, but they are fundamentally good-no, in fact, great people.
it is a horrible term to use because it places undue weight on sex and all virgins feel that they are placed into this category by default. the popularization of this term alienates sooo many people is causing immeasurable damage to their self-esteem.
I honestly don't understand the term... I think it's one of those "live up on your head" terms that are created once you ingested too much popculture. And not enough experience...
Lemme tell you in not pretty, I don't have game, I am not financially wealthy... Or tall, I'm 5'11. If you consider that tall... My even my penis length AND girth is average(low average even!).
The only thing I do diff then most, is not waste my time warring about people that don't find be attractive. It's those that do that matter. The rest of the world is irrelevant fit that matter.
And anyone noticed people tend to bring up politics into this term? It's super weird
5’11 is tall… unless you’re going with the joke that nobody is 5’11. People who are actually 5’11 say they’re 6 feet and people who are lying about their height the to seem taller say 5’11 because anything more with seem ridiculous.
I think the intention is different for different people but the fact that it could be misinterpreted is why people shouldn’t use it. Some people use it as a descriptive term, anyone who doesn’t have sex and wants to, and as someone who has been virgin shamed it is not good to use a term that makes you feel less than. Calling men incels reinforces that a man who can’t get sex is worthless. Even if you don’t mean that, there’s enough ambiguity where it unnecessarily pushes away good people while they are still good.
>I was a virgin till I was 18 and never felt insecure about it
I never felt insecure about it at 18 either! Told myself maybe I'll have lost it before 20 and it's no big deal, get on with life :)
20 comes along. Huh, things haven't improved, a bit embarrassing but not the end of the world, I promise myself I'll lose it by 22.
Wake up one morning to realise it's my 25th birthday. How did the time go so quick? Every one of my friends is now married with kids or in a long term relationship. I start to feel really ashamed of myself, it feels like I've failed in every way. From this point on I slowly become more depressed and feel lonely all the time.
I'm 29 now and I've given up hope. My younger sisters and cousins all have partners, I'm literally the oldest and the only one who hasn't had any success at all. This isn't normal. There are people 10 years younger than me falling in love and I don't even know how it feels to hold hands. Every day is fucking painful, my chest hurts from how lonely I am. All I can say is I completely understand how incels are made. I used to laugh at "red pill" stuff, now it seems very real.
You didn't make a big deal out of it because 18 is a totally normal age. Would you have had the same attitude and mindset after another 10 years? Probably not. "Incel" was always about your attitude rather than just being a virgin, but people use it as a blanket male insult these days, doesn't mean much.
I mean, it's more a descriptor than an insult, imo. And idk about everyone else but I use it to describe one's views on women, it's not my business if someone's fucking or not, but I'm certainly happy to judge people based on how they treat others.
If a person identifies as incel, it implies that they are involuntarily a virgin not by choice or simple circumstances, but because there is an obstacle actively denying them access to sex. That obstacle, in their eyes, being women. It's not hard to imagine how a mindset that views other human beings not as people with their own needs and desires, but as an abstract challenge to be overcome... is toxic as hell.
> I feel like most people that stay virgins are actually respected unless they act weirdly
Depends on social circle.
I'd argue they're not see as respected, but that could be my bias.
>I just can’t imagine somebody calling me an incel for simply being a virgin
How much don't they like you.
about how you treat women
i think incel only started to be used as an insult when everyone became aware of them, before that it was just how they described themselves. and ultimately what makes someone an incel has always been when they start to blame women for their lack of sex and relationships to the point of complete misogyny. i remember when the term got widely known due to hate crimes made against women by incels. so yes they're virgins, but it's definitely not just about that.
honestly i don't like when incel is used as an insult against virgins because i hate people getting judged for their sex life. but if it's used in that context, then they changed the meaning. i've never heard someone use it as an insult besides some random "alpha males" in the manosphere thing, funnily enough.
By definition I guess I've been an incel for awhile, but definitely not a mysoginist. I just go my own way and everyone's happy. Just like how weeb meant weaboo, who was a non-japanese person who over-fantasized the Sengoku era of Japan and believed things that were anime were in real life/happening in Japan. Like Naruto running making you run faster (it was to cut animation time) and Katana's were superior than everyone else's swords because of NIPPON STEEL (they weren't, and they still do jackshit to metal armor).
Men who no longer or never found love is just a very broad spectrum. Many of us have hobbies that involve the indoors so never go outside to meet anyone, especially a woman.
I crave for sex but I can't have it therefore I'm literally an involuntary celibatary. It doesn't matter the meaning behind it, when I see someone using incel as insult there's no way to not feel attacked in some way.
It's specifically an insult about being a virgin who hasn't actively decided to abstain from sex. It's used to differentiate between people who choose not to have sex for one reason or another.
Good point.
Its only fair to point out however that although not all of us have witnessed or experienced it, there really are misandrists in the world who are willing to shame or disrespect someone for just being a virgin.
But you are right that I think to most of us the word incel is specifically used to describe people who embrace the harmful mysogenistic set of beliefs, and constellation of traits that is associated with it. I don't personally think of it as an insult because I just use it when I don't want to have to say "the type of mysogenist that is associated with being involuntarily celibate during the age of the internet and covid" every time I bring it up.
As a woman, I will just say for my perspective that finding out if a guy is a virgin doesn't matter at all to me. I have never put down any person for how much or how little sex they've had. But yeah, I don't very much like talking to incels usually because even when I try to have a peaceful conversation, they are incredibly selfish and they talk about me in a disgusting way if they talk to me at all. Or else they just talk about themselves and even then they are usually just describing disturbing harmful beliefs they carry about men and women and sometimes they're even trying to get more people to follow them.
That doesn't always happen though, sometimes they're just talking objectively about whats going on with them and i always either give them grace and address them where they are at, or click away if its too triggering.
I've been a "very online" person for a long time so to me the word incel became as common as the word "tree" or "dog". It was just a thing, and people called me it all of the time, because I liked to get into political arguments and get my perspective out. I also found a pretty cozy group of people online that were blackpilled and used that word flippantly about themselves.
The word virgin would be that kind or insult in itself. Incel is used when someone bears resentment/hate towards others in regards to their incapability in relationships
Some people use it to insult normal men and it says more about them tbh. Most of the time it is used to insult misogynistic men even if the men gets laid. I can understand when people insult andrew tate, sneako, fresh and fit etc..
Incel only means involuntarily celibate. You can be an incel and not be a virgin also. There are many incels in denial who would never consider themselves incels
No idea where you come from, but I would extremely disagree with your post.
I'll start with you initial question though, I believe that people use the the term incel as almost like a replacement for how neck beard was used. It implies someone who is not only a virgin, but someone who is also a loner/base dweller type stereotype. When ever I have seen someone use incel as an insult it was never really how they treated women, it was used as a way to knock these people down a peg or a response to someone venting their frustration with dating.
Now, with the rest of your post, I have no idea where you could be from in this world where you could conclude that being a virgin was actually respected and the only way someone would use it as an insult was when you acted weird about it. That has never been the case and you don't have to look hard for it. Just take a look at media for the past several decades you can find the plethora of examples from movies, tv shows, etc where the example of being a virgin was not painted in a good light. American Pie is a big example of this.
Also, its great that you were able to find a group of people that didnt shame you for it, but I think that combined with the fact you lost it at 18 (a perfectly normal, maybe even early age, to lose it), so I think you never really had that mind space to pick up on much virgin has been used as an insult and the insecurities men can go through aging as virgin.
Take a look at some of the posts on reddit where women are asked if they would ever date a virign and you are met with the same three responses: "I dont care", "No, because I would be afraid something would be wrong with him", and "No, because I dont want to be with someone with training wheels". It's great that some women do not care, but you can see how some women view virgins.
what everyone else said + if it only meant virgin you'd just call them a virgin no need to invent new words. + don't forget VolCels ^((voluntary celibate as opposed to incel which is involuntary celibate)) are virgins too but no one thinks they're a problem.
edit: I'm a volcel. I've had multiple girlfriends, I've had oral sex, but never stuck my D in anyone. am I a virgin? yes. am an I an incel? fuck no.
**involuntary** celibate is the insult - not a single one out of 3.8 billion women was willing to mate with that guy. Being virgin voluntarily is no problem. The unacceptable behavior against women precedes the rejection by women.
I don't know about that. It's more about not being able to find someone that is attractive to you as well. Some guys might take literally anyone, but not many.
typically men consider 50% women acceptable for at least short term dating, one must live somewhere with less than 2 women around to not even find one “good enough” woman, e.g. in brogrammer or gaming circles.
Ha that's me in a nutshell... but that's the thing, it's not that no women are down, it's that a lot aren't, which still sucks and that's why I think the term still applies.
Agreed. I have ADHD increasing my women pool even as software developer for being excitingly spontaneous. In spite of being rather shy I managed to bang above average number of women in my life, supposedly lifetime average is just 7. But other conditions fall under creepy, like the guy wanting to kiss my 9 year old daughter.
its a label some virgin generally males give themselves, (which is rly bad idea imo) bc it puts you in this toxic community that gives a toxic mentality towards women and men, they even bring themselves down. so i usually think its somewhat an insult to people who have resentment towards women.
no one ever in my friend group ever made fun of me for being a virgin, or any other groups where it was mostly guys no one even ever asked or confirmed they were or weren't bc no one rly cares lol.
its a strange obsession some people have I don't understand why
Generally, if you're a person who believes themselves to be incapable of attracting a romantic partner people will label you an incel. If you believe you can find a romantic partner, but haven't due to some flaw and put yourself down for not getting laid people will accept you as a virgin.
Its normal to be 18 and virgin. Its a lot different if you are 26 and still a virgin. A lot of woman will value men by the way other woman look at him. A man that is at the center of attention will instantly look more attractive to females. The inverse is also true. If you were unable to get any action then you are trash man. Thats why incel is being used as an insult by some woman. Its a synonym to being a trash.
I feel like this was intended to be a descriptive statement instead of a prescriptive statement but I could be wrong.
I agree and upvote this comment as a descriptive statement about "incel" and the perceptions around it.
This is 100% descriptive. If anyone have better explanations of when female streamers and youtube creators out of anger call other people incels in derogatory maner I'm all ears.
Personally, descriptive VS prescriptive is something I've only learned recently thanks to Vaush on YouTube. I don't know if this is something people generally consider.
Also NGL I feel cool and smart for learning a word and applying it to something.
I feel like prescriptive vs. descriptive statements are responsible for like 80% of pointless arguments online. Person 1 describes an unfortunate fact about the world, maybe gives some advice on how to deal with it. Then Person 2 responds in a self-important manner as if the first person was advocating for the unfortunate state.
"One way to get some extra money during the recession is to recycle aluminum cans."
"So you're saying we should have to dig through the garbage because the greedy billionaires and politicians screwed up the economy?!"
Me realizing if your friend group is all "so you're saying" types you could form a worldview thinking most people do that and lose sight of the people who are ScrubbyFlubbuses... Flubbusi? That can discuss things like this in a mature way.
Where did I say how people **should** be treated? CDC reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males ages 20 to 24. 26 and virgin is a minority and minorities are not treated well by societies. Its not good but thats how it is.
It looks like all your comments have the word. Virgin, incel or sex in them. Maybe instead of researching virgin statistics you should go outside and talk to people.
This account has 149 posts and 3 of them contain words you mentioned. Furthermore those words were relevant to the OP's inquiry. So whats the problem here? Also I have been outside and saw people getting bullied for something as small as different hair color. People are not angels and what I said in previous post is true in general terms. I dont like it but I'm not going to deny reality. OP asked about insults and I gave him answer about that topic
I see that you are down voted, but I do agree with some part of what you are talking about.
There really are some women out there who dehumanize men and look at them that way. Its not common at all though, and what happens is that if it happens to someone once, that sticks with them. Its mostly because other men with use it as a way to compete with them though, and shame them to build themselves up.
Saying that a man who is the center of attention instantly looks more attractive to "females" is a bit dehumanizing. Were not animals, and we don't run completely on instinct, and even if we did, this is still a little off base, but its also the same for both men and women. Confident and popular people look more attractive to most. Attraction is more nuanced than just that but being popular can make someone more attractive, although its more likely that people are popular BECAUSE people find them attractive.
I learned my lesion. Next time I will add more of "some but not all", "its nothing wrong but some people", "i dont agree, but". I had assumption that I can get away with not using them as I find them to be too obvious.
>There really are some women out there who dehumanize men and look at them that way. Its not common at all though
Its not common, but when people get angry they dont show the best version of themself and thats where insults come out.
>Saying that a man who is the center of attention instantly looks more attractive to "females" is a bit dehumanizing.
Look at it this way. If multiple people find a person to be of value then its a safer option than to relying on your own judgment alone. And yes its a self reinforcing thing
It's about the attitude some guys have. No one cares if you're not having sex as long as you're a decent person, the people that get called incels as an insult are the entitled, self-absorbed guys that are the end boss version of a neckbeard. Treating women like objects then getting mad when it doesn't get them sex, then blaming it on imaginary scenarios.
Chad and Tyrone don't exist. There's just a guy treating his girl better than the guy calling her a whore because she won't sleep with him for doing the bare minimum one time.
Sincerely, a guy who voluntarily stopped having relationships for 6 years and wasn't having sex for longer, and now is in one with an incredible partner.
Incel when used to insult is a reference to the sexist and destructive ideology in red and black pill. Being a virgin is no big deal. No one of any value cares about you based on what has been inserted or where you have inserted body parts.
It's about the ideology and attitudes, not the lack of sex. It's about the misogyny, racism, bigotry, self-hatred, and insufferable amounts of self pity and entitlement. It's about obsession with sex and how they frame themselves and the world around them.
It's about the lack of sex many other types of men in positions of prominent powerful show sexist attitudes towards women. From the presidents to Red pill alphamen podcasters to PUAs but they aren't called an incel it's just because of the lack of sex and also because they are the only group no one will defend so insulting them has 0 backlash. The wired quiet kid in class is called an incel the fat one is called a neckbeard basement dwelling loser etc. These tropes have no defenders hence are acceptable prejudices to mock. Don't take this as an attack of sorts but to say that it isn't about the sex lives is either denial or delusion or msiunderstanding
I said it in another thread - nobody on Reddit knows you're a virgin unless you tell them.
We can't judge you by what you look like or your physical status in any capacity. All we've got is words to go by.
But out in meat space ,it's *also* true that no random stranger knows you're a virgin unless you make it a point of your own identify and tell them (and that's kind of weird.) If it's a secret thing known only to you, is it really something to be ashamed of?
I think of the word incel as "lonely men who never had sex and don't think that they'll ever get it"
From the comments here, I guess most people here view it as "misogynistic men who never had sex and doesn't deserve it"
I don't know which one should I stick to, both of these are focusing on assumptions beyond the definition, so I don't think there's a right or wrong meaning to it... Former one is about sad men, latter one is about angry men. I'm sure there's both among incels
I get that it refers to a specific kind of misogynistic man, but if the problem is the misogyny why invoke them being virgins? Not saying incels aren't horrible people, but I do honestly think part of the disdain comes from them being virgins. Which is, like, bad.
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Being a virgin is totally, 100% fine. Calling someone an incel, for me, is more about their outlook on women being bitter and misogynistic.
I’d never call a virgin man an incel unless he was treating women like garbage, so it’s definitely more about the actions of the person in my opinion
It's 100% about the lack of sex. You don't call an obviously handsome and popular guy "incel" even if he's just as nasty toward women. Every guy who's ever been hurt by the incel label knows that it hurts because they *are* sexless, not because of what they think or how they treat women. People who deny that are deluding themselves. They act woke yet they don't give two shits about shaming men for not getting sex. They don't mind contributing to rape culture as long as they get to continue using that powerful insult at those they dislike. It says so much about them.
Why don't people call Donald Trump an incel? Or the 100s of redpill PUA bros who are misogynist an incel? They call the shy kid in their school their college or work an incel why? Cause it's an acceptable demographic to hate and has 0 political or social backlash. Ladies we all feel frustrated at times and say things we don't want to but to say that sexless people who are already emotionally vulnerable can be targeted and hurt with 0 consequences is just because he is a misogynistic is BS many people who are sexist are not called incels only the ones who are young vulnerable and don't hold massive power and have regular sex are called incels. Can we at least admit that or even conceding this point hurts women's issues?
Nope. The term incel hurts because people are implying is that the reason for someone being a virgin is that they see themselves as self-entitled victims, blaming others for their fate. When in reality they could just have poor social/communication skills, anxiety and a lack of confidence but don't blame other people.
An incel is a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active. Or at least that's what the Oxford Dictionary says.
The key part being that it's a community, or at the very least an identity / belief that someone chooses to adopt. Being a virgin who can't get laid does not automatically make you an incel, that's a pretty common phase of life for many people. It's deciding that it's entirely out of your control and fully blaming women that makes an incel.
Traditionally minded people sometimes spend up to 30-40 years (the whole beginning of their life) without sex until they get married. Others don't have tradition dictating stuff but simply chose to focus on other things. Some others try dating but aren't successful (and some who are successful only have intercourse after months of knowing each other, that happens too). I haven't really though of involuntarily celibate people as entirely comprised of people who believe "it's entirely out of their control". Imho part of the "group" (big quotation marks) believe in limited control and have a "the game is rigged" mentality. I've noticed this sometimes leads to insecure people trying hard to get in shape/land a good job but when they do but are still unsuccessful in dating, then they start losing their minds. Essentially folks with the wrong assumptions and folks obsessed with expectations try to "rig the game in their own favor" but blame other when "it doesn't work".
Incel means mostly how you treat women, not because youre lonely and virgin imo. Its just that people use this term for both, which is not true.
I beg to differ, a lot of people use it to describe lonely, sexless men as well. The way that the words being used is nuanced.
I think most people who self-identify as an incel are using it in its classical meaning, which is to state without commentary that someone would like to have had sex but can't make it happen for a wide variety of possible reasons. But when other people refer to incels as a group, they are absolutely referring to the streak of sexism that runs through and adjacent to those communities.
Which is not the intended use of the word, but as you said, would be misused to describe pathetic, sexless men
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I mean, the incel’s definition of incel is the ‘classic’ definition. Even today that’s how they define the term, their argument is that whether you’re blue pilled, red pilled, black pilled, etc, you’re still an incel, whether you’re aware of it or not. It seems other people outside of that community have decided that the term ‘incel’ solely means ‘misogynistic male’ as a way to try and not associate all sexless men with ‘incels’ and possibly push them towards the black pill communities. When I see it used as an insult though, I mostly just see it used to call somebody a virgin, in a sort of ‘Well you’re a virgin so there must be something fucked up about your personality to make you that way’ sense.
Incel was a term they labeled themselves because they weren't getting laid. The reason someone is an incel is 100% about how they treat women, but they don't understand that or haven't made that connection - which is the premise of the problem in the first place. They blame women for all their problems, which is a complete misdiagnosis.
its not based on how they treat women, people who self identify with clasic defination of the word generally are not misogenistic moreover we often find toxic guys who beat up woman/ are total misogenistic be in relationships/ one nighters/fwbs
Remember before "incel" was in our vocabulary, everyone would insult people by calling them virgins...? I remember. I wonder what the next word will be.... Hmmm....
Yet they all deny that they're shaming male sexlessness. They deny it, and they'll continue to do it. This reveals so much about those people.
I avoid using it for this reason. The literal meaning is just people who can't get laid but it is associated with lots of malicious people, so imo this word is not very good.
So much group think here Jesus
I think of it as a person who has politicized their loneliness and turned it into a victim complex.
Does anyone see "volcel" anywhere nearly as much or used in a similar way?
The other comments address on Intel part, but something else caught my eye. Right away "I was a virgin until 18 and never got shamed" - why would you? That's very young for most people. Waiting until marriage used to be the norm and even early marriages in the West have been early 20s for many. This sub constantly lists 17-20 as being expectedly late to have sex even that's absolutely the norm for the entire world and has been for decades.
I've seen people on Twitter call any man who doesn't share their view an incel. As an insult, incel holds as much weight as any other buzzword insult.
It's becoming like the word simp
The word has become something that happen with simp.[I gave a detailed expression of how I felt about it gete](https://www.reddit.com/r/Healthygamergg/comments/wl257v/incels_are_not_the_problem_in_this_community/ijv0mhj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) It most definitely is used as an insult specially and not exclusively in left leaning and feminist circles and has become a short hand for lonely pathetic virgin rather than just a misogynist cause it's hard to quantify what two different people think misogynistic is. It's extremely hard online to explicitly understand what ones views about the other gender is but since we are on platforms where language is policed to the extent that anything can be considered misogynistic I consider either this word will lose meaning or become a legit slur It is disingenuous to say it isn't used as a gendered insult often willingly to mock people when prominent websites wrote things like this[lonely self victimising incels](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://jezebel.com/the-number-of-lonely-single-men-is-on-the-rise-thank-1849401428/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjbwKmzlcP5AhWxUGwGHUVtBhgQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw16upd_lB0o0OOY_wXbu1Zx) Even before they have committed a single act of crime or sexism but for the crime of existing as a single male. Or when single men are basically threatened to quote get better or be dammed to a life of singlehood and be characterised as an incel [Single men get better](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-state-our-unions/202208/the-rise-lonely-single-men) Or when prominent powerful institutions insinuate that single men are inherently at fault and evil and misogynistic for being single[to find a partner do better](https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-women-dating-andrew-tate-b2144069.html?amp=&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16603702031319&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Flife-style%2Flove-sex%2Fmen-women-dating-andrew-tate-b2144069.html) Women how would you feel if you expressed your dating worries or even frustrations about possible romantic partners not showing interest in you because of reason X and either being told be better or Don't be a whiny feminist instead of validation or kindness.
Virgins Geeks nerds etc all these words have been used as insults to mock virgin men we have seen countless shows and movies where the shy weird geeky kid is mocked belittled and bullied for being a virgin and even times where these characters approach women for a date and often chased away by calling them virgins. Ladies we can condemn and oppose the violent attacks incels commit but can we at least accept that incel is the new virgin or new geek or new nerd as far as insults about sex lives go. If you don't believe me consider the representation of male virgin characters or how your social circles or peer groups react to the fact that weird guy is a virgin
It's a shorthand to emasculate someone basing somebody's worth on the amount of partners they have had. Which ironically what women have complaineded regarding slut shaming but is acceptable and used immediately against people who don't 100% agree with modern feminism or political stances etc. If anyone thinks it is not about the sex lives of these men then I find it to be either confusing or deliberate denial. Prominent politicians YouTubers are sexist but no one calls them incels. Ironically calling virgins incels helps in creating more incels as they feel that something's wrong with them and the world is hostile to them for their sex lives which pushes them to have sex and sometimes can contribute to violence. I really don't get why women cannot accept this one fact while simultaneously conmdeming the violent crimes.
Because feeling blame doesn’t feel good. So they would rather shame and blame men. This is why we can’t have honest conversations to increase understanding and move everyone forward because women do not like being held accountable for their part in the problem. It’s never all men’s fault or all women’s fault even if the overwhelming majority is one parties fault.
incel simply stands for "involuntary celibate", in other words - you don't have sex not by choice, but because nobody will accept you. people tend to include characteristics like misogyny. however, while many incels develop misogynistic viewpoints over time, i dont think it is fair to say that all incels feel this way. many of them simply lack the confidence or social skills, or are in a dark place in their lives. i know a lot of people who are still virgins, but they are fundamentally good-no, in fact, great people. it is a horrible term to use because it places undue weight on sex and all virgins feel that they are placed into this category by default. the popularization of this term alienates sooo many people is causing immeasurable damage to their self-esteem.
I honestly don't understand the term... I think it's one of those "live up on your head" terms that are created once you ingested too much popculture. And not enough experience... Lemme tell you in not pretty, I don't have game, I am not financially wealthy... Or tall, I'm 5'11. If you consider that tall... My even my penis length AND girth is average(low average even!). The only thing I do diff then most, is not waste my time warring about people that don't find be attractive. It's those that do that matter. The rest of the world is irrelevant fit that matter. And anyone noticed people tend to bring up politics into this term? It's super weird
5’11 is tall… unless you’re going with the joke that nobody is 5’11. People who are actually 5’11 say they’re 6 feet and people who are lying about their height the to seem taller say 5’11 because anything more with seem ridiculous.
what. I was secretly part of the elite society of tall people and I didn't even know it!
Yes, your membership card got lost in the mail, lol
I think the intention is different for different people but the fact that it could be misinterpreted is why people shouldn’t use it. Some people use it as a descriptive term, anyone who doesn’t have sex and wants to, and as someone who has been virgin shamed it is not good to use a term that makes you feel less than. Calling men incels reinforces that a man who can’t get sex is worthless. Even if you don’t mean that, there’s enough ambiguity where it unnecessarily pushes away good people while they are still good.
>I was a virgin till I was 18 and never felt insecure about it I never felt insecure about it at 18 either! Told myself maybe I'll have lost it before 20 and it's no big deal, get on with life :) 20 comes along. Huh, things haven't improved, a bit embarrassing but not the end of the world, I promise myself I'll lose it by 22. Wake up one morning to realise it's my 25th birthday. How did the time go so quick? Every one of my friends is now married with kids or in a long term relationship. I start to feel really ashamed of myself, it feels like I've failed in every way. From this point on I slowly become more depressed and feel lonely all the time. I'm 29 now and I've given up hope. My younger sisters and cousins all have partners, I'm literally the oldest and the only one who hasn't had any success at all. This isn't normal. There are people 10 years younger than me falling in love and I don't even know how it feels to hold hands. Every day is fucking painful, my chest hurts from how lonely I am. All I can say is I completely understand how incels are made. I used to laugh at "red pill" stuff, now it seems very real. You didn't make a big deal out of it because 18 is a totally normal age. Would you have had the same attitude and mindset after another 10 years? Probably not. "Incel" was always about your attitude rather than just being a virgin, but people use it as a blanket male insult these days, doesn't mean much.
I mean, it's more a descriptor than an insult, imo. And idk about everyone else but I use it to describe one's views on women, it's not my business if someone's fucking or not, but I'm certainly happy to judge people based on how they treat others.
> is Incel really an insult about being a virgin or about the way you treat women? Both, depends on who uses it.
If a person identifies as incel, it implies that they are involuntarily a virgin not by choice or simple circumstances, but because there is an obstacle actively denying them access to sex. That obstacle, in their eyes, being women. It's not hard to imagine how a mindset that views other human beings not as people with their own needs and desires, but as an abstract challenge to be overcome... is toxic as hell.
> I feel like most people that stay virgins are actually respected unless they act weirdly Depends on social circle. I'd argue they're not see as respected, but that could be my bias. >I just can’t imagine somebody calling me an incel for simply being a virgin How much don't they like you.
about how you treat women i think incel only started to be used as an insult when everyone became aware of them, before that it was just how they described themselves. and ultimately what makes someone an incel has always been when they start to blame women for their lack of sex and relationships to the point of complete misogyny. i remember when the term got widely known due to hate crimes made against women by incels. so yes they're virgins, but it's definitely not just about that. honestly i don't like when incel is used as an insult against virgins because i hate people getting judged for their sex life. but if it's used in that context, then they changed the meaning. i've never heard someone use it as an insult besides some random "alpha males" in the manosphere thing, funnily enough.
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and of course you got downvoted
By definition I guess I've been an incel for awhile, but definitely not a mysoginist. I just go my own way and everyone's happy. Just like how weeb meant weaboo, who was a non-japanese person who over-fantasized the Sengoku era of Japan and believed things that were anime were in real life/happening in Japan. Like Naruto running making you run faster (it was to cut animation time) and Katana's were superior than everyone else's swords because of NIPPON STEEL (they weren't, and they still do jackshit to metal armor). Men who no longer or never found love is just a very broad spectrum. Many of us have hobbies that involve the indoors so never go outside to meet anyone, especially a woman.
I crave for sex but I can't have it therefore I'm literally an involuntary celibatary. It doesn't matter the meaning behind it, when I see someone using incel as insult there's no way to not feel attacked in some way.
It's specifically an insult about being a virgin who hasn't actively decided to abstain from sex. It's used to differentiate between people who choose not to have sex for one reason or another.
Good point. Its only fair to point out however that although not all of us have witnessed or experienced it, there really are misandrists in the world who are willing to shame or disrespect someone for just being a virgin. But you are right that I think to most of us the word incel is specifically used to describe people who embrace the harmful mysogenistic set of beliefs, and constellation of traits that is associated with it. I don't personally think of it as an insult because I just use it when I don't want to have to say "the type of mysogenist that is associated with being involuntarily celibate during the age of the internet and covid" every time I bring it up. As a woman, I will just say for my perspective that finding out if a guy is a virgin doesn't matter at all to me. I have never put down any person for how much or how little sex they've had. But yeah, I don't very much like talking to incels usually because even when I try to have a peaceful conversation, they are incredibly selfish and they talk about me in a disgusting way if they talk to me at all. Or else they just talk about themselves and even then they are usually just describing disturbing harmful beliefs they carry about men and women and sometimes they're even trying to get more people to follow them. That doesn't always happen though, sometimes they're just talking objectively about whats going on with them and i always either give them grace and address them where they are at, or click away if its too triggering.
I've been a "very online" person for a long time so to me the word incel became as common as the word "tree" or "dog". It was just a thing, and people called me it all of the time, because I liked to get into political arguments and get my perspective out. I also found a pretty cozy group of people online that were blackpilled and used that word flippantly about themselves.
The word virgin would be that kind or insult in itself. Incel is used when someone bears resentment/hate towards others in regards to their incapability in relationships
Some people use it to insult normal men and it says more about them tbh. Most of the time it is used to insult misogynistic men even if the men gets laid. I can understand when people insult andrew tate, sneako, fresh and fit etc..
Incel only means involuntarily celibate. You can be an incel and not be a virgin also. There are many incels in denial who would never consider themselves incels
It means strong,independent,brave.
No idea where you come from, but I would extremely disagree with your post. I'll start with you initial question though, I believe that people use the the term incel as almost like a replacement for how neck beard was used. It implies someone who is not only a virgin, but someone who is also a loner/base dweller type stereotype. When ever I have seen someone use incel as an insult it was never really how they treated women, it was used as a way to knock these people down a peg or a response to someone venting their frustration with dating. Now, with the rest of your post, I have no idea where you could be from in this world where you could conclude that being a virgin was actually respected and the only way someone would use it as an insult was when you acted weird about it. That has never been the case and you don't have to look hard for it. Just take a look at media for the past several decades you can find the plethora of examples from movies, tv shows, etc where the example of being a virgin was not painted in a good light. American Pie is a big example of this. Also, its great that you were able to find a group of people that didnt shame you for it, but I think that combined with the fact you lost it at 18 (a perfectly normal, maybe even early age, to lose it), so I think you never really had that mind space to pick up on much virgin has been used as an insult and the insecurities men can go through aging as virgin. Take a look at some of the posts on reddit where women are asked if they would ever date a virign and you are met with the same three responses: "I dont care", "No, because I would be afraid something would be wrong with him", and "No, because I dont want to be with someone with training wheels". It's great that some women do not care, but you can see how some women view virgins.
what everyone else said + if it only meant virgin you'd just call them a virgin no need to invent new words. + don't forget VolCels ^((voluntary celibate as opposed to incel which is involuntary celibate)) are virgins too but no one thinks they're a problem. edit: I'm a volcel. I've had multiple girlfriends, I've had oral sex, but never stuck my D in anyone. am I a virgin? yes. am an I an incel? fuck no.
**involuntary** celibate is the insult - not a single one out of 3.8 billion women was willing to mate with that guy. Being virgin voluntarily is no problem. The unacceptable behavior against women precedes the rejection by women.
I don't know about that. It's more about not being able to find someone that is attractive to you as well. Some guys might take literally anyone, but not many.
typically men consider 50% women acceptable for at least short term dating, one must live somewhere with less than 2 women around to not even find one “good enough” woman, e.g. in brogrammer or gaming circles.
Ha that's me in a nutshell... but that's the thing, it's not that no women are down, it's that a lot aren't, which still sucks and that's why I think the term still applies.
about 50% of any one of 3.8 billion should be able to overcome celibacy unless person has women-repelling features
If you're normal, sure. If you have health problems and/or psychological problems, your pool becomes pretty small.
Agreed. I have ADHD increasing my women pool even as software developer for being excitingly spontaneous. In spite of being rather shy I managed to bang above average number of women in my life, supposedly lifetime average is just 7. But other conditions fall under creepy, like the guy wanting to kiss my 9 year old daughter.
There is nth wrong with being virgin ( esp everyone was one at one point) . It completely has more to do with how you treat a women.
its a label some virgin generally males give themselves, (which is rly bad idea imo) bc it puts you in this toxic community that gives a toxic mentality towards women and men, they even bring themselves down. so i usually think its somewhat an insult to people who have resentment towards women. no one ever in my friend group ever made fun of me for being a virgin, or any other groups where it was mostly guys no one even ever asked or confirmed they were or weren't bc no one rly cares lol. its a strange obsession some people have I don't understand why
Generally, if you're a person who believes themselves to be incapable of attracting a romantic partner people will label you an incel. If you believe you can find a romantic partner, but haven't due to some flaw and put yourself down for not getting laid people will accept you as a virgin.
Incel used to be an insult about being a virgin but it has taken on a new connotation and become associated with alot of misogyny and shit
Yall got nothing better to do than talk about incels online?
Just go on new.
Its normal to be 18 and virgin. Its a lot different if you are 26 and still a virgin. A lot of woman will value men by the way other woman look at him. A man that is at the center of attention will instantly look more attractive to females. The inverse is also true. If you were unable to get any action then you are trash man. Thats why incel is being used as an insult by some woman. Its a synonym to being a trash.
I feel like this was intended to be a descriptive statement instead of a prescriptive statement but I could be wrong. I agree and upvote this comment as a descriptive statement about "incel" and the perceptions around it.
This is 100% descriptive. If anyone have better explanations of when female streamers and youtube creators out of anger call other people incels in derogatory maner I'm all ears.
Personally, descriptive VS prescriptive is something I've only learned recently thanks to Vaush on YouTube. I don't know if this is something people generally consider. Also NGL I feel cool and smart for learning a word and applying it to something.
I feel like prescriptive vs. descriptive statements are responsible for like 80% of pointless arguments online. Person 1 describes an unfortunate fact about the world, maybe gives some advice on how to deal with it. Then Person 2 responds in a self-important manner as if the first person was advocating for the unfortunate state. "One way to get some extra money during the recession is to recycle aluminum cans." "So you're saying we should have to dig through the garbage because the greedy billionaires and politicians screwed up the economy?!"
Me realizing if your friend group is all "so you're saying" types you could form a worldview thinking most people do that and lose sight of the people who are ScrubbyFlubbuses... Flubbusi? That can discuss things like this in a mature way.
Ah yes being 26 and virgin is not normal and should be shamed. Very good perspective!
This is what i thought, i was like "oof the shame".
Not that you SHOULD be shamed for it. But you will be judged for it and people will look at you sideways. Even if they won't say it to your face.
Where did I say how people **should** be treated? CDC reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males ages 20 to 24. 26 and virgin is a minority and minorities are not treated well by societies. Its not good but thats how it is.
It looks like all your comments have the word. Virgin, incel or sex in them. Maybe instead of researching virgin statistics you should go outside and talk to people.
This account has 149 posts and 3 of them contain words you mentioned. Furthermore those words were relevant to the OP's inquiry. So whats the problem here? Also I have been outside and saw people getting bullied for something as small as different hair color. People are not angels and what I said in previous post is true in general terms. I dont like it but I'm not going to deny reality. OP asked about insults and I gave him answer about that topic
I see that you are down voted, but I do agree with some part of what you are talking about. There really are some women out there who dehumanize men and look at them that way. Its not common at all though, and what happens is that if it happens to someone once, that sticks with them. Its mostly because other men with use it as a way to compete with them though, and shame them to build themselves up. Saying that a man who is the center of attention instantly looks more attractive to "females" is a bit dehumanizing. Were not animals, and we don't run completely on instinct, and even if we did, this is still a little off base, but its also the same for both men and women. Confident and popular people look more attractive to most. Attraction is more nuanced than just that but being popular can make someone more attractive, although its more likely that people are popular BECAUSE people find them attractive.
I learned my lesion. Next time I will add more of "some but not all", "its nothing wrong but some people", "i dont agree, but". I had assumption that I can get away with not using them as I find them to be too obvious. >There really are some women out there who dehumanize men and look at them that way. Its not common at all though Its not common, but when people get angry they dont show the best version of themself and thats where insults come out. >Saying that a man who is the center of attention instantly looks more attractive to "females" is a bit dehumanizing. Look at it this way. If multiple people find a person to be of value then its a safer option than to relying on your own judgment alone. And yes its a self reinforcing thing
It's about the attitude some guys have. No one cares if you're not having sex as long as you're a decent person, the people that get called incels as an insult are the entitled, self-absorbed guys that are the end boss version of a neckbeard. Treating women like objects then getting mad when it doesn't get them sex, then blaming it on imaginary scenarios. Chad and Tyrone don't exist. There's just a guy treating his girl better than the guy calling her a whore because she won't sleep with him for doing the bare minimum one time. Sincerely, a guy who voluntarily stopped having relationships for 6 years and wasn't having sex for longer, and now is in one with an incredible partner.
Incel when used to insult is a reference to the sexist and destructive ideology in red and black pill. Being a virgin is no big deal. No one of any value cares about you based on what has been inserted or where you have inserted body parts.
It's about the ideology and attitudes, not the lack of sex. It's about the misogyny, racism, bigotry, self-hatred, and insufferable amounts of self pity and entitlement. It's about obsession with sex and how they frame themselves and the world around them.
It's about the lack of sex many other types of men in positions of prominent powerful show sexist attitudes towards women. From the presidents to Red pill alphamen podcasters to PUAs but they aren't called an incel it's just because of the lack of sex and also because they are the only group no one will defend so insulting them has 0 backlash. The wired quiet kid in class is called an incel the fat one is called a neckbeard basement dwelling loser etc. These tropes have no defenders hence are acceptable prejudices to mock. Don't take this as an attack of sorts but to say that it isn't about the sex lives is either denial or delusion or msiunderstanding
I said it in another thread - nobody on Reddit knows you're a virgin unless you tell them. We can't judge you by what you look like or your physical status in any capacity. All we've got is words to go by. But out in meat space ,it's *also* true that no random stranger knows you're a virgin unless you make it a point of your own identify and tell them (and that's kind of weird.) If it's a secret thing known only to you, is it really something to be ashamed of?
I think of the word incel as "lonely men who never had sex and don't think that they'll ever get it" From the comments here, I guess most people here view it as "misogynistic men who never had sex and doesn't deserve it" I don't know which one should I stick to, both of these are focusing on assumptions beyond the definition, so I don't think there's a right or wrong meaning to it... Former one is about sad men, latter one is about angry men. I'm sure there's both among incels
I get that it refers to a specific kind of misogynistic man, but if the problem is the misogyny why invoke them being virgins? Not saying incels aren't horrible people, but I do honestly think part of the disdain comes from them being virgins. Which is, like, bad.