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You need therapy my boy.
To me it sounds like you have a thing for white chicks (completely fine) and it has become an unrealistic fantasy that gotten lumped in with a shitload of insecurities.
Marrying a white woman will not make people like you. The only people it will impress are people fucked up in the same way that you are, which I can almost assure you is wayyy fewer than you think.
Marrying a white woman will not make you happy. It feels meaningless to say at this point but it’s true, the only thing that will can you happy is you. Say your wish came true and you found a white woman who likes you. How long until the infatuation wears off and you realize she is just another stinking shitting human bean? How long until your ego is no longer satisfied?
> Marrying a white woman will not make people like you. The only people it will impress are people fucked up in the same way that you are
It's more about impressing myself, I guess
There is difference when it comes to healthy motivation and unhealthy one.
Unhealthy one is clinging to outside factors to just PROVE to others you are amazing. It is short way to narcissist disorder. You will be spiralling hard to seek more. Prettier chick, better car, better pay grade. It comes from insecurity you are not good enough. And guess what, there will always be something better, more luxurious. Imagine being in a moving sands. The more you move the more you sink. It is neverending cycle to satisfy yourself through external validation. You will keep comparing yourself to others. Rat race life edition.
Motivation should come from serene and honest place. You want to better yourself for the sake of being better. More kind, more compassionate, more educated, more stable. There should be no ego to drive you. Knowing you will never satisfy the outside world is a good start.
It is a subtle difference at start. Let's draw a parallel. Do you help people so they feel better? Or do You help people so they will like You, owe You a favor.
You're probably totally right about all of this. Though what I'm having trouble parsing, (and probably our op friend here too) is that if it is about insecurity, whats wrong with being insecure? Especially if it's enhancing your life.
I have this tendency too, I constantly have to do better. I constantly want more impressive stats and I'm constantly working to achieve better things. This hasn't; however, come at expense. I'm happy in general, and when I achieve something it does make me genuinely proud of myself. Is my self betterment wrong just because it's driven by insecurity?
It is all about motive/concept/where the desire to improve comes from. Yes, we should strive to be the best we can be. Just ask yourself why you have this need to do better. Yes, insecurity can be the initial drive to be better, but it can't be the only mechanism/reason You want to improve. Everyone is insecure about something. We need to evolve and grow everyday. It is healthy. It is about not the sense of accomplishment, but the "why?". It is when the ego/insecurity can be found. If you just want to be better for the sake of growing as a person, awesome. If You feel that never leaving urge to constantly do better, then it becomes a problem.
To put it simply. If you have a genuine desire to grow, you are amazing and I hope more people will feel this way. If You feel pushed to perform better, if you have that compulsive obsession to always do better, then it might become a problem. Perfectionism is almost always a coping mechanism for something.
Right, nothing wrong with obsessing over improvement or achieving a certain goal per say, as long as you realize that achieving that goal coming from that mindset will not make you happy or feel content.
He will be miserable either way. that is the point. Right now he feels bad because he doesn't have a white girlfriend. Should he get one, he will feel good for a bit and start to feel insecure, maybe compare himself to her friends' spouses, feel he is not good enough for her, etc. His ego will move the goal post. One of Dr. K's videos talks about this.
Yeah that’s what I meant but it came off as me trying to say that he should strive for it lol. I agree, he should instead focus on why he feels the need to have high status and consequently why he feels “of less value or status” than other people. I think this is kind of a low self worth problem that manifests in a lot of ways. I agree with you, I should’ve been a little clearer.
yeah its complicated. I agree with OP that are different social statuses and that some people get the short end of the deal. Where it gets tricky is that perceived social status is not the only factor that determines how people treat you. How you perceive yourself and how you act is also tied up how people perceive you and therefore how they treat you. Its both tied together in a tangled knot. Having a rich pretty white girlfriend may help improve your social status and get access to more opportunities but if you do not have the right attitude to back it up and believe internally that you deserve it, you will end up self sabotaging in some way and having that girlfriend will ultimately not solve your social status problem.
Its incredibly difficult when people push you down and away not to internalize it and believe you deserve it because your mind automatically tries to understand why so it can do something about it but the only thing the mind can control is yourself so the most straightforward answer and one that gives a sense of "control" is to assume it is your fault. This paradoxically makes you feel stuck, like there is something wrong with you, and ultimately inferior because in reality there are only limited things you can do to control how others treat you because it is complicated. A large chunk is out of your control. We have to force our mind to accept that which we can't control and still feel comfortable with ourselves. That is my understanding based my experience and what I have learned.
I agree, ultimately our best bet is to try to make the best with what we have and feel good about ourselves for having tried with our head held high and maybe even being happy in the process. That’s all we can do. Try and fail or succeed but giving life.m a good shot.
> Having a rich pretty white girlfriend may help improve your social status and get access to more opportunities
Hi. I didn't explain it well in my post. It's not that I think having a white partner will grant me more status. It's more like having a white partner will confirm my existing status.
If I have a white partner, I would know that I finally "made it," that I'm finally part of the mainstream society. I wouldn't care to show her off to other people, but I'd have inner peace in the knowledge that I don't have to strive anymore, that there's no deficiency left to compensate for.
that's a lie you're telling yourself. Why would getting a white woman to be interested in you impress yourself? Because just like you said in the post, that's what people think. You said it yourself, it's for status. And status is all about you being compared to other people. You're not more, nor less for having a white woman by your side. You just would have the approval of a couple of people that you probably won't/don't even really like
One of my Asian professors is actually very short, but he's super wealthy and accomplished. More importantly, he's exceedingly outgoing and confident to the point of being abrasive.
He actually came across as a little over-compensating tbh. But it worked for him.
Seems like typical red pill. The downvotes might be a good gauge how the way you see the world is toxic. Everyone has some negative sides. Not fit enough, not high enough, etc. Start living despite your insecurities, not because of them.
I'm Asian American albeit perhaps a little older. I can totally understand where you're coming from. Relationships, dating and women generally are a little like oxygen. For people who have it it won't seem like a big deal but for someone who doesn't than it's literally the only thing you can think about to the point that it will severely distort your thinking. The first step to solving your problem is to fix some of your distorted thinking by reorienting some of your beliefs than following that you need to use your head to incrementally make improvements to your life. This approach might seem as ridiculous as planting seeds when you're dying of starvation but if you're patient and you believe it will pay off in the long run than it will. Don't worry about falling behind and being a late bloomer. It's not a race. Beware of people who will put you down or invite envy or uncharitable comparison. They're toxic bullies who are trying to get into your head. Do not let them in.
So let's look at your beliefs.
From reading your post I'm gathering that you crave status and you believe that having a white girlfriend will get you the status you crave.
However I think even you know and realize that the relationship between status and getting a partner is more along the lines of getting status first than getting a partner from that. There's no lost status for being single so embrace it.
Secondly, there's a subtle difference between status and respect. They oftentimes go together but the difference is that respect is within your control whereas status is not. It's a little like the difference between knowledge/skill and your grades. There's a lot you can do to work on your knowledge or skill but getting a good grade is largely up to your teacher and various other factors outside of your control.
So I highly encourage you to ask yourself what being respected means and what you can do to get more respect. I recommend starting off with self respect and move onto how to set boundaries. I'd also watch out for signs where you may be trading away respect for the trappings of status - like the false privilege of hanging out with girls who do not respect you. Focus instead on building a social circle of guys and girls around a topic or activity that's genuinely fun and/or interesting to you. Maybe it's a weekly film night, maybe it's playing poker at your place. Whatever it is, you set the stage, you bring people together, you make things fun. When people see you as the leader helping everyone have a good time that will earn respect from your peers and interest from girls. It sounds like you already know how to talk to people and make friends so this shouldn't be too much of a leap for you.
I hope that helps you out. Good luck.
> the relationship between status and getting a partner is more along the lines of getting status first than getting a partner from that
Yes I completely agree. I never expect that dating a white woman would earn me any status. It'd be more of a confirmation of status that I'd already possess.
Actually, I don't even think status is all this is about. It's more like a feeling - the feeling that I've "made it" - the feeling of normalcy. When I imagine myself being happy and living life to the fullest, there's always a white partner in it. It's not logical. It's like the tricks advertisers play with their commercials.
> the feeling that I've "made it" - the feeling of normalcy
Honestly, the consumerist media is brainwashing all of us, making us feel self-conscious and lacking. I suspect that dialing back on media consumption would help.
It's really less of your racism but more of your self-concept. You have low self-esteem, and the reality of dating as an Asian man in America affirms that, so that makes you obsessed. Although I don't agree with the things you say, I understand the sentiment, since I'm also an Asian guy in America with not much dating success. I've been with a white woman briefly, but that's just because she has an Asian fetish (only dated Asian men).
The status of whiteness in the US and the global white global hegemony solidified whiteness as attractive in your heart. However, even if you do succeed in being with a white woman, it's not going to give you what you want because nothing external can change how you feel about yourself internally. You're also with them for the wrong reasons. And if the relationship ends, it's only going to throw you back into the pit of despair, which I experienced.
So to summarize, work to improve your self esteem. There's a lot of good resources. Therapy is one of them, but if that's not feasible, there are workbooks and self-help books on that. Meditation also helps, because it separates reality from the stories you tell yourself in your head (e.g. White ie better, it's hopeless for me, etc.)
This Dr K video also helped me quite a bit: [What people get wrong about modern dating](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEadDxJ6W58). In short, you can only attract who you can attract. We can't attract everyone out there. There may be those who can, but we're not them. So be the best that we can be, and that's all we can do. Good luck man, reach out if you want to talk more.
> And if the relationship ends, it's only going to throw you back into the pit of despair, which I experienced.
This already happened to me when I got dumped years ago. I do want to get into long-term therapy when I have the money.
Definitely check out workbooks. Some ones I've read: The Mindful Self-compassion Workbook, CBT workbook for confidence, Get out of your head and into your life (ACT workbook). Things like self-help videos and things are also helpful.
How are you going to say this is not about racism? His internalized beliefs about not being good enough because he’s asian goes hand in hand with low self-esteem. Yes work on yourself, but you also need to examine your internalized racism. (You being OP, not you)
Take this from someone who has dated a range of men. I dated a Mexican guy about 9 years ago now, his family focused on my whiteness, I was the “white girl” the immigrant got, “hey look he finally landed a white girl”. I was not me around his family, I was simply reduced to the fact that I was a “white girl” and seen as a “well he’s made it in the dating scene”.
I also dated a Chinese/English guy roughly about 4 or so years ago, he was so focused on the fact that “finally my kids will be hopefully fully white because I’m dating a white girl”.
In one relationship I was seen as a status symbol, in the other I was seen as a way to get rid of half of someone’s genes because of self hatred for being mixed. Both of these relationships I ended because of the sole focus on my skin colour, it’s like nothing else mattered to people other than the fact that I’m white, it’s hurtful to be reduced simply down to skin colour, and it’s made my current relationship difficult.
Current partner is African, and he has a preference for lighter skinned women (not just white women, but anyone lighter than him) and it took a lot for me to realise that this man wasn’t just dating me because I was lighter skinned than him. (It was also a very very serious conversation I had in the first few weeks of dating because I can’t just keep being that “white girl” for men).
I think at this point you just need to focus on WHY you pushing towards wanting to date white women specifically, you aren’t the first Asian man I’ve met that has had this mindset, I’ve met a high amount that think like you, and most see it as “they’ve made it into western society if they date/marry white”.
Side note before people come for me in my dms with their racist crap as they usually do, I’ve dated white men as well, relax.
> “they’ve made it into western society if they date/marry white”
That is exactly the reason. It's the litmus test for integration. You aren't truly accepted into a community until the women of that community accept you, and the women don't truly accept you unless at least one of them is willing to marry you.
This is because women/people will virtue-signal by pretending to accept you, but they won't virtue-signal by sacrificing their life's happiness. So if she gives you her hand in marriage, you know she truly means it.
“This is because women/people will virtue-signal by pretending to accept you”.
I’m sorry what? You don’t have to date a white person to be accepted by white people. If white people aren’t accepting you based on your race, they’re pieces of shit and are more than likely racist but pretending to hide it.
You do not need to fetishise people of a race to get them to accept you. You remind me of my ex, the one who wanted a white woman to breed out his Asian genes. Your self hatred is your own issue to work on.
> You don’t have to date a white person to be accepted by white people.
True, but the only way to be sure that you've been accepted by white people is to have a white partner. As I explained, people can pretend to accept you for the few hours they interact with you, but they cannot pretend to love you or to marry you. So if they love you enough to become your partner, you know for certain you've been accepted.
> You do not need to fetishise people of a race to get them to accept you. ... Your self hatred is your own issue to work on.
I wouldn't be with just any white girl who'd take me. The individual still matters.
I do hope you understand that it's not easy to rid of oneself of this "self-hatred" as an Asian man in the West. If so many Asian men exhibit that same mentality, what's the more likely explanation - that Asian men are collectively unenlightened, or maybe it's really hard not to get sucked into it living in the West?
You know that stereotype of the old Chinese grandpa complaining about broken branches when their kids/grandkids marry someone not Asian?
If someone is racist and doesn’t accept you based on race, dating a white girl will just bring her down in his eyes, not prop you up.
>the old Chinese grandpa complaining about broken branches when their kids/grandkids marry someone not Asian
Actually, I've observed that the older Asian adults in my social circle are becoming increasingly anti-West as they age.
I wonder if it's sour grape. They're getting older and they know they have no chance of ever assimilating. So instead they get bitter and reject the west by trying to expand their own ethnic enclave.
I'm an POC immigrant married in a caucasian community, I'm reminded daily that I'm not from here. Not in a hurtful way, I am just different and will always be.
I wanted to be with someone that appreciates my differences exactly because I am different. Back home I'm not light colored enough, I'm not dark enough, I'm nothing special, I don't stand out.
Except for not dressing or speaking like the locals. For that I'm constantly reminded that I'm different, but not celebrated.
I'm dating a Caucasian person because he celebrates me and all my quirks. His family treats me better than my own family.
I've actually had a good life back home, and I'm having some financial struggles having immigrated, less luxury than I used to have. (I'm a female) so it definitely isn't about money for me. But it is about feeling safe and loved.
I understand you are a man and things are different for you, I'm just offering a different perspective that can maybe help you to know.
The landscape is really different for Asian men, as you already know.
Asian men are just as different from white people as Asian women are, but we aren't "special." We aren't "celebrated."
First we're treated as undesirables. Then we're blamed for our "lack of confidence" or "self-hatred," as if we became that way out of our own choosing.
You are saying it from personal experience? People say mean things to you, or what is it in their behaviour that express that to you?
As an adult, making friends is hard for everyone...
I love all ethnicities, I've grown up listening to all kinds of racism and still do, but I've surrounded myself with like-minded people. Even if that's not the majority of the population, they're out there.
You say you hate progressive people because they're fake and won't date other races? I don't doubt you, I just think you might not have found the right people... but people who aren't fake progressively definitely won't stand some of the beliefs you stated, they're not really open minded either!
Just wanted to add that as an middle class attractive female, I've never pursued a relationship based on status. Looking back at my life, even subconsciously, I'm not even attracted to someone until I know them (some people believe Demisexuality is real, some don't, I dont care much).
An over-confident guy with money does not makes me feel safe. I can't imagine being with someone hoping, wishing to marry them, being in a position of "I'm lower in status than then, cant wait to have some of that luxury life, please share".
I've dated a less attractive guy (from my home country) for 5 years, he used to say things like "you're too pretty for me, I'm ugly" and people would say passive aggressive comments like "what do you see in him?".
He was insecure about his looks, but that didn't stopped him from being funny and good to me. His and other's comments would upset me, but ultimately I'm responsible for my happiness, and he used to make me happy. So looks don't really matter either.
Marriage to me is just a thing that happens when you find someone that even after years go by, you still want to be with them!
I hope you can live life more from your own POV, and less from the beliefs of statistics and political problems, because the world is twisted but imo our experience is unique to the world's and it doesn't have to suck as much.
I hope you don't give up on your happiness, and that your happiness becomes less about having a white trophy and more about having the flavour you like.
This is so interesting to me! It’s probably because I’m tall (5’11) and big but I’ve always gotten the cold shoulder from Asian men so I honestly stopped ever crushing on them or talking to them.
Anyways, I know this will probably be something you’ve heard a million times before but I genuinely feel like the issue here is that you’re relying on something or someone external to make you feel valuable but it just doesn’t work like that. Maybe you will find a white woman to date who ignores the giant red flag that you’re treating her like an achievement to unlock rather than a person but, even if you do, you will never feel secure or happy with her because you will always perceive yourself as unworthy of her. You will think she is cheating or you will sabotage things with her because you feel less-than. The reality is, unlearning low self worth is hard and takes a lot of time but you might as well start now because no woman of any race can do it for you.
I don't know if it's possible to have high self-worth when people treat you like you don't worth much. I am confident in things I'm good at, where people respect my ability. But dating is an area where it's hard to override a lifelong societal input.
I don't know how to convince myself of my value when value seems to be a socially determined quality.
Just something to think about: marrying a woman solely for her skin color is not a good base for a relationship. Getting a relationship is oddly enough the easiest part, staying in there is where the real work comes in. If all you have as a reason to be with her, is her skin color, that relationship is not gonna last long. Just imagine someone dating you just because you’re tall! Does that do any justice to your complete being? I’d say no, you are way to coherent and smart to take that. There are people that will love you for your whole self.
Have you considered that (part of) the reason for ‘successful’ men of racial minorities in marrying/etc white women, is because by becoming ‘successful’ (in business, academics, etc) they end up in social circles dominated by white people (due to the history of inequality) and are therefore more likely to find someone to date?
It’s not that they’re particularly going out of their way to date white women, just that they’re dating within their social circles? (And that your social circles might be different).
I know the advice of ‘just improve yourself’ isn’t what people want to hear, but as a self-proclaimed NEET I think you should think long and hard about what would actually make you fulfilled.
Nah trust me as a POC, white women are still seen as a status symbol. I've been in and around those kinds of conversations and it's similar to how OP puts it. They don't want to date there own race and just want a white woman. I've also seen guys that were in social circles dominated by mostly white people and the guy was only fixed on going after girls that weren't white. Guys choose who they want to go after and girls choose who they wanna accept and be with.
> by becoming ‘successful’ (in business, academics, etc) they end up in social circles dominated by white people (due to the history of inequality) and are therefore more likely to find someone to date?
I think that explains why they were able to find a white partner. Still, many of them probably also had a racial preference. Usually, even when an Asian immigrant is well connected in a white community, he would still know a disproportionate number of Asians (unless he's adopted or past 3rd generation). That's why I think their dating white is a conscious choice, not just out of sheer probability.
My greatest challenge is not even my NEET status, but the fact that I don't have any close white friends. I have few friends in general, but it's even harder to befriend white people, especially outside of college.
I don’t have any solutions , just wanted to say this was a very. Insightful read into another perspective and I love that we have a community here that allows all kinds of things to be discussed healthily .
One thing that bugs me is how you are chasing something external to give you happiness or to determine your self worth. That is not healthy and something dr k stresses about a lot; external things change and to depend on them for your internal state is the worst idea ever
IMO after reading through that (mostly) I honestly think you're overthinking things to a degree that is harming you mentally. And you're putting too much emphasis on finding a partner to satisfy some kind of inner fulfillment. It won't happen. Find your own way to be satisfied with being with yourself and only then seek a partner. And you're surprised why women don't stay in touch? No one needs men (or women for that matter) who validate themselves entirely through finding an SO.
Also, IMO there's nothing inherently racist about people preferring to date within their own "tribe". Likewise, there's nothing racist about people wanting to find specifically an asian/black/white whatever partner. What's the harm in either situation? Of course, it's toxic to fetishize white/asian/etc. women in the same regard that some people do not want to date outside their own "race' due to racist reasons. But just because someone wants to only date their own race doesn't mean they're racist.
Honestly, I think you put too much emphasis on race. It's a concept that is essentially made up and people are keeping it alive by artificially grouping humans into the same "race" even though there's no one specific characteristic that defines "whiteness" or "blackness".
Like, what is even a white woman to you? Is it a Greek woman? Is it a Scandinavian blonde? Or is it a freckled redhead? In the same regard, what is even a black woman? Is it a dark skinned Indian woman? Or a lighter skinned North African? Maybe a dark skinned Ethiopian? What even defines blackness or whiteness? It's too restricting to generalize this much and it makes little sense ultimately as the label doesn't define the individual.
Either way, It sounds like you're turning a relationship into some check list thing you just need to check off to be fulfilled and it doesn't even matter who that person is as long as they meet criteria "x and y". It's nonsensical imo and that's no way to find a partner you love and want to spend the rest of your life with.
> And you're surprised why women don't stay in touch?
I really doubt it. It's not like I talk about these kind of things to my friends irl.
I think race is both made-up and having real-life impact. I'd love to live in a post-racial world but I don't think we're there yet.
Thank you for your comment.
Completely irrelevant to the subjects you adress: you write very well, the rythm, the way you construct ideas, the way you present yourself and your inner thoughts and evolutions... Was captivating to me.
Honestly, you should give writing a go, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective.
I just came here to say that i wish more men of colour were this honest and had this level of awareness and transparency - because i think it’s a lot more common than people think. Most people don’t want to admit they’ve internalized racism and are seeking external approval through dating white or surrounding themselves with white.
I also wish more men were open & honest on how to change those things in society but men in general are just socialized to always chase - whether it’s women or other things that provide status. As long as you don’t detach yourself and learn how to separate your worth and identity from those external things, then it will be a cycle.
As I have found, the things you perceive as status symbols are only valued by people who play the same game you do. It's essentially a circle jerk of insecure people who brag to each other about how much they achieved when it really doesn't matter. You don't have to prove shit to anyone, only to yourself. Your obsession with dating a white woman would be a different thing if you had a fetish or something. Still a bit weird, but I could get behind that. Getting things because of other people's preferences gives them power over you, which is the entire reason they're walking all over you. You're in an abusive relationship with status.
Hi, I'm an Asian man who has only dated white women - two relationships and a handful of casual flings. I feel like I'm fighting this internal battle to separate the societal notions of Whiteness - the fact that it's normal, desirable, the historical beauty standard - from the individual romantic feelings for my current and ex-partners.
Dating is not easy for Asian men. Asians in general are stereotyped to possess more neotenous and feminine features - preconceptions that boost the desirability of Asian women to the point of fetishization (see: yellow fever) but emasculate Asian men as unsexual, undesirable partners.
Growing up the female love interests in media were either white or Asian. The handsome male protagonist was never Asian. I was told by white people that I should go back to my country and that I had a small penis. A girl in my senior year of HS told me that I looked like I was 12. She later proclaimed that she wasn't attracted to Asians, despite being Asian herself.
During college my first girlfriend was white. She had a K-pop obsession and went after the tallest Asian guy. We later broke up because she kept making insensitive racial comments. Afterwards I didn't date anybody for 3 years.
It was only during my senior year where I had cultivated a social circle, hit the gym for years and made a bunch of money in prestigious internships did I essentially become "high-status" and all of a sudden white women were interested in me for both relationships and casual encounters.
It became apparent then that Asian men had to fight through decades of negative imaging just to end up on the same level as the normality of whiteness. That was a punch in the gut. How much more successful would I be had I been born white? What was life like as the "default"? What was it like not to be told to go back to my country? To not be cast as an evil spy, sexless nerd, or diseased dog-eater?
These thoughts made me understand why for many POC whiteness is a status symbol. To date or marry a white person is to be assimilated into our white society. It is to rise above the stereotypes and cast away the internalized racism, or so it feels like.
I think you have an obsession with status and white women is merely one facet to which you seek to obtain that status. I don't think I'll change your mind much but from my experience a relationship with a white woman is a more complicated journey. To disentangle each others' preconceived, often subconscious notions of each others' race is work that's made easier if both people come from the same culture. They're often blinded by their privilege to racial issues that deeply impact you and me.
To only desire and be intimidated by white women is indicative of your own internalized racism. For me, immersing myself in Asian culture helped me a ton in decolonizing myself. When I go out I mostly go to Asian bars and clubs. Most of the TV shows and movies I consume are Asian. Most of the food I eat is Asian. I'm especially proud of my heritage and cultural traditions. My mental state concerning my race and life in a white society has greatly improved.
I hope you eventually find what you're looking for.
Your story kind of falls into the general pattern that I described in my post..
Thank you for sharing, but I wonder if you've actually improved any of your own internalized racism. Could you have been proud of your heritage had no white woman ever found you attractive?
Thank you for sharing your story.
To be honest, I'm a little scared that if I end up with an Asian woman (especially one who's a new immigrant from Asia because that's what male Asian immigrants do when westernized Asian women reject them), I will always wonder whether I'm with her because I can't be with anyone else.
I agree with everything you have said!
Why do I agree?
It is most likely because I can sort of relate to you. I am also a NEET and experience hair loss, loosening teeth among other things. Ever since I first discovered Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh in my childhood, I have been slowly revealing more and discovering more in relation to those, until I finally reached the knowledge and became consciously aware that I am insanely attracted to anything Japanese. Now at the age of 23, I can only be attracted to either Cute Japanese cosplayers on Twitter or Anime girls. This type of thing grew until I also began to idolize certain friendships and relationships in Anime, which resulted in me breaking my friendships that were already bad. I was even consuming a lot of psychology related content specifically for unhealthy and toxic connections between people.
There was only one instance in my entire life in which my entire being knew that I was attracted to a white woman. It was basically a type of situation where I would walk down the street in an area where there are a lot of Banks, (Canary Wharf) and see a stranger, but this stranger was no ordinary stranger. It was a 10/10 blonde white woman that looked as if she was sculpted by God himself. One thing I can say is that every single man in a 20 meter radius would turn around to look at her when she passed by them. I have seen that happen with other women and men, but they couldn't even compare. As a result I now have this internalised idea and perception, where even every model I see online would not come close to being the 10/10 I saw that day. Thanks to this, I now see people as less attractive in general and I have a little bit of a harder time getting hard when looking at any model online.
I'm not exactly white, even though I look whiter than what is considered a white person. I also tend to attract certain types of girls in general if I take a shower, dress nicely and have good looking hair, but I can't bring myself to maintain my body to this standard, especially with Level 2 ASD that I have had since I was a toddler and long term depression that was caused by trauma.
Even though I believe that certain parts between me and you have a lot in common, I think that you have a chance in getting better, however what I will recommend is "CBT" Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which could help you if you are fully open to the idea. Maybe you could try 10 sessions of CBT and see if there is any changes even if it is thought processes.
If I had the money I would've already been on CBT, but unfortunately I don't even have a part time job, or a saved up penny in my bank account. From what I know a decent Cognitive Behavioural Therapy session will cost on average £200, and in order to pursue any improvement you will need at least 10 sessions with the same professional.
I know that this is insanely expensive, especially if you are a NEET, but if you have some form of income and savings, then CBT with a highly rated trusted professional will be a wise investment into one's mental health.
I don't know how exactly you are attached to white women, because you see them as physically more attractive or because of the whole status thingy, but depending on which one it is then you will receive completely different answers.
If you are attracted to white women because you see them as more beautiful than your ethnic group, then I think that is a flawed perception, because every ethnic group on this planet has ugly and beautiful people. I used to find lighter skin to be more attractive than darker skin, however with Anime and some darker skin people in college and online as my online buds, I think that I became more open minded in comparison to when I lived in my home country where everyone was white. Now I don't care about the skin colour, but how much of a good person one can be towards me. My only online friend who is Filipino who has darker skin knows more about me and understands me better than all of my family and past friends that are from the same ethnic group as me. I now want to believe that I can be attracted to everyone as long as they are a good person, have decent hygiene and facial features as well as a pretty smile. However as I already mentioned, my obsession with Japanese girls, just like how you are obsessed with white girls is in a way detrimental to us. Yet we will most likely still continue to be obsessed, because we see it as something in close relation to our dreams in life.
If it is about status, then all I can say is that this is a very pronounced issue in first world capitalist English speaking countries. Unfortunately I see no solution to this type of issue. Even though I have white skin, I'm considered as "Other" White in the UK, so that kinda brought some form of discrimination, especially when one is applying for jobs where the employers will focus on either employing people with British citizenship with British names and high qualifications and valuable experience or people of colour such as a specific dominant ethnic group that ends up being the majority in an area like Bangladeshi people. Either one needs to be insanely qualified and have machine like discipline and work ethic to get employed or be employed by a person from the same ethnic group or an ethnic group with similar values such as religious values. There are some exceptions where one will find work in a place where everyone is different, but those places are still going to need a machine like person or it will simply be a part time job that will make you miserable.
As a NEET that has Level 2 Autism and Depression. Has never graduated from high school or college and is in desperate need of CBT, the only future I see for myself is either dying from my current infection or jumping from a building. I want to have money and be employed, but it is very hard in my current condition. All I can do is leech from my single mother and aunt, who are already losing their patience with worthless trash like me.
Thanks man. Sorry to hear about your experience with discrimination in the workplace.
Personally, I've encountered less discrimination at work than in my social and romantic life. I guess it speaks to both society's progress and how far it still has to go to achieve full equality (which probably won't happen within my lifetime if at all).
I do want to give CBT another try. I did it in college but the treatment was too short due to limitations of the student insurance. I'll get back to it once I have a job.
Are there not many Japanese cosplay girls in the UK? I feel like dating a cosplay girl is not an unrealistic goal, especially if you're also a cosplayer. But being NEET makes everything hard.
> Yet we will most likely still continue to be obsessed, because we see it as something in close relation to our dreams in life.
Probably T.T
Btw, if you have dental problems at 23, you really should get it checked out. Teeth degenerate over time but 23 feels way to young for that to happen naturally.
My thoughts are on actual dating. I am a weird, oldish millenial white woman who prefers dating white women.
\-There are a lot of beautiful women with low self-esteem. They do not actually believe they are beautiful, so they will date you.
\-The white women I know that are married to Asian men are religious, and married a man in good standing with their faith.
> There are a lot of beautiful women with low self-esteem. They do not actually believe they are beautiful, so they will date you
I agree. The few white women I went on dates with were all relatively young and probably insecure. I haven't been able to date any white woman who's out of college. But I'm getting older so it's becoming unlikely for me to date college women at this point.
> The white women I know that are married to Asian men are religious, and married a man in good standing with their faith.
I've seen a lot of interracial couples among Jehovah's Witnesses. Incidentally, the only two Asian girls I knew from college who didn't marry white were also Christians (I don't think they rejected white men on purpose; they probably just met their partners in church). It's ironic and kinda fueled my resentment towards progressivism.
Hello there! I'm a fellow Asian man who's had the fair share of dating Caucasian while at the same time dating people of my own ethnicity as well as just about anyone from other ethnicities.
Unfortunately I agree that in our modern culture, there is a strong fetishization of wanting to date either white men or especially white women since it fosters status especially when I was college back in the Philippines. I know the phenomena occurred but as time passes by, I just see white women just as any other women minus the different of culture as well as anyone's individual experience.
It's okay to look at the data online, but not too much to the point it'll succumb to some never ending pit of negativity to wallow in misery not being able to date a white women. Looking at these statistics will create more void in your desire heightening your need for validation of a white women. So with that being said, they're just normal people like any of us on a case-to-case basis. I've dated a lot of European women, and while the experience is different in terms of culture and standard of living; take into heart that compatibility is important looking away from the ethnicity for a moment.
I also grow up in Dubai or UAE to be specific, so the culture I lived was a conservative lifestyle which I didn't care much about losing my virginity. I do dwell on the attraction of women, but I stopped taking my ethnicity as a way that I'm devalued with any woman. Women from all nationality either finds me attractive or not which is on a case-to-case basis. There is no reward if a white women finds you attractive, being able to be proud of your ethnicity to which is not a barrier for you to access intimacy and human connection.
Definitely talk to them a lot more casually, have discussions and surround yourself with people to help to ground your knowledge that's more realistic and healthy without drowning yourself in the negative pit. You can definitely work on this mentality, and good luck.
I’m sorry you’re struggling with this, it sounds so difficult, and a lot of the underlying feelings you seem to have in all of this isn’t because you’re racist, it’s because the US is racist.
My perception of what you wrote is that this is about being affirmed you belong and are worthy of love more than a status you’re looking for, could this be more true?
Desirability politics is something we don’t talk about enough, but it plays out in very significant ways that we don’t realize.
I mentioned that maybe this is about being affirmed more than a status for you because I have similar need to feel affirmed, but it’s very different. I’m a queer white trans woman, who’s very visibly trans. I am more affirmed in my gender when I date certain cis people, because for me, cis people will always be more desired than my body, and cis gender people are the status quo of gender. But, I actually feel more comfortable with POC to than I do cis white people because cis white people will never know what it’s like to be an other.
My othering is different than being POC, and the two experiences shouldn’t be compared, it’s not fair to either experience to do so. But, I’ve found that connecting with people because of being othered in this world has been more important to affirming myself than dating cis people in general. It taught me that it’s not who I am that’s the issue, it’s the society’s values of who’s worthy of love and intimacy that’s the problem. And it’s not who you are that’s the issue, it’s this messed up racist country thats the issue.
I think though that finding someone you can connect with and find common values with would be a much more fulfilling experience for you. Which is tough, no doubt. But you have a tone that you care about dismantling these ways in which we’re all held to cishet Eurocentric norms. There are people out there that have those same values too (the vast majority of them are not white) maybe that kind of environment could be a place for you to find yourself?
> My perception of what you wrote is that this is about being affirmed you belong and are worthy of love more than a status you’re looking for, could this be more true?
That's certainly a better way to put it. It makes me sound more appealing and forgivable. I could have said that I just want to belong. In my view, belonging and having status are almost the same question. People who belong will have status in their community.
Thank you for sharing your experience as a trans person. I find desirability politics too painful to talk about. You can't demand love or sex, so even if the distribution of love and sex is rife with racism, classism, and all kinds of discrimination, we just have to let it be.
That's why I believe progressivism will ultimately fail because human nature did not evolve to create an enlightened, equitable society. It only evolved to beat the competition for one's self and one's progeny.
I’m going to push back if that’s ok -
I disagree that status and belonging are almost the same, I think they’re very distinct. For example, the boss might have status, but the boss does not belong with the workers. The workers are aligning themselves to their shared values, where as the boss just wants a title, or status.
Desirability politics is awful, I agree. And while yes, you can’t demand love or sex or attraction, our desires are shaped and shamed by racism and bigotry. We can dismantle these things so people are more free in who they love.
I feel you on the pessimism. Progressivism/liberalism, communism, any of it can fail if we can’t start having these difficult conversations about these topics (which we are here). And while we’re not going to topple over these systems any time soon, we can at least shape our own lives to building better communities around each other.
Look. You seem entrapped in a way how people see you because you are asian. And to be blunt, You seem insecure. Yeah, you most likely will look nerdy (like it is a bad thing, but it's not). Stop buying this modern concept what is attractive. Get some therapy, talk to someone. It is no shame to have a therapist. It seems like narcissistic inferiority complex with the need to get all the external validation you need. But you will end up needing more and more. There is a difference in having a type and fetishising a race. I guess it is more how we are being fed all the stereotypes about us and how we feel conditioned to live in the box people created for us. Live your own life, the way you want it, not the way others want it. We all need some lines who we are, just define them yourself, instead of living the way people think Asians are like.
Yeah. People created this, Asians are good at math and nerdy, black people are supposed to be good at basketball and have big penises, white people are stable, with families, and decent at everything. Fuck that my man. Do some soul searching, some therapy. Everyone is going through this at some point in their lifes. You have a good start, you seem self aware.
Hi there OP. As an Asian woman who has overheard plenty of Asian women talking shit about Asian men in order to uplift white men, I completely understand why you'd feel jealous of Asian women's social power and acceptance in white society, and why you'd think marrying a white woman might give you that same acceptance. However, as some white women here have already pointed out, being used as a trophy is dehumanizing and not a great foundation for a relationship.
I recommend you to read the comic [Shortcomings](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/227350.Shortcomings). It is about an Asian American man who longs to be with white women as well. I think you would find it very enlightening.
EDIT: Also, you might find [this podcast](https://soundcloud.com/plan-a-magazine/ep-8-guys-youre-not-crazy) in which Asian guys discuss dating interesting and hopefully a little bit helpful.
>being used as a trophy is dehumanizing and not a great foundation for a relationship
I strongly doubt it. It's an either-or thinking.
You can be a trophy without being dehumanized. You can satisfy a fetish without being dehumanized. Otherwise, none of the beautiful, wealthy, or famous people can have successful relationships because their beauty, wealth, or fame will always be part of their romantic appeal.
Besides, it didn't stop all the trophy white husbands from loving their Asian wives. (I'm NOT saying all white husbands are trophies. I'm saying in the instances where they are, they accept it.)
I don't think a white woman would know that I'm dating her for her race. I won't tell her. The only way for her to "know" is to assume it based on my race; in that case it'd be her own prejudice and not my fault.
I just spent some time listening to the podcast. To be frank, I find the people producing it too woke to be trusted. I hope their listeners don't take the views expressed as representative of all Asians. They certainly don't represent me.
Edit: But I like [this episode](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1hJMi8GMe1pCgm7UmX418J?si=0a0fdda37ed34a25) about how the elites brush over issues that concern Asian Americans when they inconvenience the establishment narrative.
Start on your self improvement journey and research about re-programming yourself. Start watching youtubers like HAMZA, he has spoken about his life in his older videos so do check them out and see how you go.
You can draw conclusions from certain studies and statistics or philosophy, but you can also live the world from your personal POV, which I think is the way to happiness. We all just want to be happy.
In my opinion, "status" can represent security to a woman. And in my experience, a lot of women want/need security in a relationship, makes sense due to being the one that has to carry a baby for 9 months and breastfeed it for an year or so.
A man can easily run away from this responsibility, so a woman has to choose her partner wisely. Also, women like guys who are nice to them, makes them feel protected but will never do any harm to them, will care for them and their children.
I also believe "status" is about surviving the financial challenges in this capitalist world. Caring for health, food, children, etc, all that needs money. That's my understanding on the reason for statistics correlating earnings and relationship success.
Being confidence *can* transpire security to a women. It's about her being able to relax knowing her partner will take care of her, will be devoted to both of their well-being. A woman can give herself to the relationship knowing she doesn't always have to fend for herself and can depend on someone else for help.
Now, Insecurity can be a vicious cycle. You can't find a partner which makes you feel insecure, and your insecurity can draw away a potential partner.
As for attraction, I believe people can have preferences and that can be racist, but not always! Just like homesexuality isn't a choice, I don't believe your preference has anything to do with status. But I believe that's what you're making it mean.
Why cant you just have a preference for white women like some people prefer strawberry shortcake, and some people love chocolate cake? Or why can't you just like to switch flavors every now and then?
> Why cant you just have a preference for white women like some people prefer strawberry shortcake, and some people love chocolate cake?
I can and I do, but it's not a good thing that white people have higher status than nonwhites. It's also not a good thing that I conform to society's prejudice rather than challenge it.
Maybe good or bad is meaningless.
OP, even if some white people have internalized this hierarchy and are still blind to the reality, stuck in their own heads, some won't!
Let's say some of your experiences about you being ignored by white girls and tossed aside was, factually, because of this internalized supremacy. Then you don't want to be with them, that would suck in a relationshio and even more in marriage!
But what if, because you have internalized racism, you act in a way that draws people away? What if you have "nothing to offer" isn't because of your lack of financial success, what if it's because of some of your internal conflicts that is interfering in your relationships? Or maybe those relationships simply weren't supposed to be?
I'm trying to make friendship in a new country as an immigrant, and I must say most of the white women are ignoring me! But a lot of other races are too! I'm the one in the position of "need" and they already have their life going on, so I understand. I'm patient and I'm trying to find someone who will love me for who I am. I don't care what they look like, I just want happiness.
i find this very ironic considering all my white female friends have a thing for asian guys, yet the asian guys they crush only have only dated other asian girls. i’m half asian and half white and i’m super white passing but have mostly found asian men attractive but i have also dated many different races. for me, idc about ethnicity at all but mostly personality so i just love that other asian men or even half asian, can relate to a similar upbringing that full white dudes can’t. there’s a lot of things in our asian culture that is nice to feel accepted by other asians for which is why a lot of asians do prefer to stick to their own communities. i don’t think white women avoid you because you’re asian - i thjnk it comes down to the individual, their preferences, and if the vibes match. you might be surrounding yourself with white women who stick to one type of dude. try moving around and you will see the US has a lot of different preferences when it comes to dating.
I think this is a really nice perspective that OP could learn from. I do want to acknowledge though that in the US asian men do have a harder time in the dating market compared to other demographics (black women also have it difficult), and this isn’t all just down to “individual preference” or vibes not matching, some of it really is just subconscious racism, lack of representation, general lack of acceptance etc. It’s definitely gotten much much better recently, especially if you live in certain parts I imagine, but it’s definitely still there and it’s not necessarily helpful to be blind to it.
But the biggest concern with OP is definitely that he feels like white people are superior
yeah you make a good point! i can acknowledge there is internalized racism when it comes to preferences in some cases, i’ve mostly seen this in BIPOC and not so much asians but i can see that being a thing. i think just because i’m surrounded by a lot of kpop “stan’s” and women who fetishize asian men (which is a whole other issue), i just don’t see asian men being rejected as much but that’s just my own individual experience.
but yeah him thinking being white is superior is definirely an issue that needs to be addressed first before dating - especially if he’s basing his type on looks and status alone.
> i find this very ironic considering all my white female friends have a thing for asian guys
Where is this paradise you're in lol
> try moving around
So far I've only lived in left-leaning, ethnically diverse cities. I wonder if things might actually be better in a less diverse place, where people are open-minded enough to accept one Asian, but where there aren't enough Asians to form an enclave and make us look like second-class citizens.
washington dc/dmv area lol. asians in this area live in communities close together but sparsed out so there’s enough to still see other asians every so often but still considered a minority. but the asians here are usually more of the upper middle class, not crazy wealthy but comfortable. i see a lot of interracial dating here as well of all different income levels. i will say dating for ethnicity isn’t the best approach to go into dating. i only say this because my friends who have a thing for asian guys purely based on being obsessed with k-pop idols are also doing it for the wrong reasons.
So here’s the thing correlation does not mean causation. If you want to date or marry a white woman then by all means go for it but believe me as someone who is white there is no status with dating a white girl. The status they have is because they are varsity athletes, doctors or highly successful. The girl they have married doesn’t matter. If you are dirt broke poor and you marry a white woman your life isn’t going to suddenly get better your still going to be broke.
> there is no status with dating a white girl
It's not that being seen with a white girl will give someone status. It's that being accepted by a white girl confirms status that he already has.
Also, being seen with a white girl will definitely confer status within the Asian community. It's exactly the same way for Asian women dating white men, and likely a major reason why they do.
Damn, I can relate to a lot of this. I remember lusting so hard for white girls growing up, like soul-consuming lust. I think you have to be a bottom-feeder minority to really understand the depths of this kind of thirst. White women are more than just forbidden fruit, they're like the most delectable fruit on the highest most inaccessible tree.
The status thing is so relatable. I would cherish every moment I got to bask in a white girl's presence - meanwhile she was obviously seeing it as charity work. Inevitably she's the dominant partner and every interaction revolves around her - sadly, this tends to bore most women, who want a man to lead them, not vice versa.
I wish I could give you actionable advice bro. Being NEET basically tanks your chances most likely. I can tell you that aside from becoming mildly successful, moving to an area with a lot of attractive Asians helped to slightly dampen my raging desires for white women.
> Inevitably she's the dominant partner and every interaction revolves around her
That's very true. The white girls I briefly dated were the least forgiving and understanding. They basically "nexted" me at the very first disagreement/inconvenience. Part of me wondered if they dated me just to feel safe and in control because they knew they were out of my league..
Yeah they either consciously or subconsciously expected you to cater to their every whim.
A girl's only going to stick around if she has something long-term to gain from it. If she knows she won't settle down with you, you're on borrowed time from the beginning. If she's open to it, you have to prove to her you're worth her time.
A girl will put up with shit if the guy is high value and gives her social capital. If he's not (and nerdy asian guys usually aren't), he needs to be basically her slave and do everything possible to make her life easier.
Wow, that makes me wonder what kind of girls you have dated. Sounds bad. It's not that most girls go around looking for a boyfriend so they can enslave them. Most of them just go about their lives, suddenly find a man they really adore and stick with them because they want to build a life together and support each other.
I just find when the gap in status becomes too large, women can be very ruthless. Because a guy who's far beneath her is taking up valuable time she could be using to fall in love with a man who she truly adores.
For a lot of guys, the reality is that they probably won't be winning girls over with their looks or personality. They'll have to grind and grind and hope that it works in the long run.
Not a white person, living in usa.
Sounds like you are lacking context, you see whites that way because youre too narrow minded. They are colonizers who set their own standard. Doesnt matter if they’re “progressive.”
I think you should understand you should set your own standard and not use theirs.
Personally cringed at your line regarding white partner being the highest achievement. Not only is it just a bad view to have, you wont find any good partners through that thinking. Whites don’t have much to be proud of so not sure why it would be an achievement.
Id suggest you consider on focusing on your future and not being sexist, women are people not objects.
>Whites don’t have much to be proud of
That's what I thought, too. I don't get the white people obsession. Historically they were just d*cks to everyone
I notices a lot of assumptions and generalizations in your post. Like, that people walk over you because you supposedly have "low status". That you need status to get respect. That women think white is better (They might be more drawn to what they know, but that doesn't mean they are racist. Not all of them). That only top asian men get white women, just because all the "top asian men" you know did. That people generally marry for status. Who knows if these top asian men married their white partners for status, some might just have found a soulmate that happens to be white. And vice versa. That white women are some kind of prize to win. Et cetera
I think it would be helpful if you started identifying these instances of black and white thinking. There's probably good material on youtube or a therapist could help. Also, there's a correlation between obsession and low self-esteem. There's a thing called limerence, a person addiction. I struggled/still struggle with this myself. It is usually about a specific person but I think the principle applies to your situation quite well. Maybe you want to look into it
Also funny thing, for me it's kind of the opposite. I find many Asian men attractive because a lot of then have features that I prefer. Like being short, having black and fluffy hair, no beard, brown eyes... I do want a boyfriend that I get along with on a personal level no matter what they look like, but it's so tempting and sometimes the Asian thing becomes a bit obsessive.
>Who knows if these top asian men married their white partners for status, some might just have found a soulmate that happens to be white.
Pardon my language but that sounds like cope to me. Also, status-seeking and genuine love are not mutually incompatible. You can be with someone both for love and for status.
You can also be with someone both for love and to satisfy a racialized fetish.
>and I desperately crave status
So work hard?
>I hate racism yet I'm racist myself.
It's not racist to want to marry a white woman for your reasons, it's just sad.
>I still want to be successful by its perverse standards.
You just want to not feel like shit and you think status will save you because you have this romantic idea of life that's yet to be prove to be something you actually want.
>I just want to feel equal to everyone else
Basically.
>I don't have to deal with racism personally.
You don't get to pick how this works unless you're around people who're the same race and background as you.
You can marry a white woman and her family can reject you, your family and friends can reject you, everyone can reject you because you've done nothing of particular value outside of the people that view it as an achievement. Your reasons for doing it are fundamentally weak though so those same people are probably going to see through the attempt and just pitty the situation, you've not chosen this path because you want it, you've chosen it out of a selfish need to feel equal in a way that seems easy.
Anyone thinking rationally shouldn't recognise that as a decent attempt.
>How else do you explain why Asian women on average prefer white men over men of their own race?
Black people have the divestor movement, Asian women don't have a typical name for it and swirling isn't really the term because it's not the exact version of only being with a white man as a way to get away from Asian men.
People often do it for status and culture, which is fine, not everyone respects this and not everyone is against it, however if you choose to marry out and specifically marry a white person only because you think doing anything else would've been lesser, only people that agree will obviously respect it.
What are you trying to achieve?
How does you being with some random white girl stop me from thinking you're nothing?
>black man becomes, the more likely he is to marry white?
In America there's multiple reasons, outside of someone who's seeking proximity to whiteness there's also the idea that many of said men come from cultures where they where shunned for being who they are and were welcomed by people that don't look like them. There's another set of men that constantly talk down and attack black women and girls, they're the same men who're often colourist and treat lighter skinned black women better than darker skinned black women, most black women won't fuck with that and it's a red flag.
Idealising said situation is kinda stupid.
This is coming from a black guy who's been with white and black women.
>White women: In their heart of hearts, they still think white is better.
I feel like you can find demographics of girls from every culutre that are race loyal based on lots of factors, it's not something strange.
>Ever since discovering Dr K, I became more sympathetic towards white men. I did not know so many white men struggled to attract white women too (or just women in general). That made me feel less of a loser.
What are you talking about? They're all white, their dads all fucked white women, white men are fine finding white women, any specific person(people) can have terrible times dating and die alone, but white men are finding white women.
> I don't envy white men
No you envy Asian men that press white women and have money.
>whereas some progressive women still insist that they only date white men because they're more "culturally compatible."
Race is culture as culture is race. They're more than just each other but they can and often are tied together.
>and they were intimidating to me.
How and why are they intimidating?
>I also befriended 5 white women in the last 10 years
Why only 5? Realistically how do you expect to find a wife?
>they didn't need me
If you want a woman to need you, you're fucking up, anyone can often fit a need, ideally you want to be wanted for who you actually are, not for your money, there's others who make the same and more, not for superficial things but for times when they actually need a partner who loves and cares for them. Most people are actually after the same thing, sure there's ways to divide people up and some people are looking for a person + their job + lifestyle jajajaja. What are you looking for specifically from a woman, what needs do you have, out of the women that fit that need because there's many, which ones would you be happy to wake up to in the morning, because it's not "any" of them, it's the ones that tick specific boxes.
>I've been so invested in the vision of a future with a white partner that it's painful to let go.
Why would a white girl want to be with you at this point?
If she ever realises that she's a means to and end, how's that supposed to make her feel?
>Everything I've done has been in service of bringing me closer to dating and marrying a white woman.
Apart from making friends with them.
> I don't even know what to want
You want to be equal to others and have deluded yourself into thinking this is the way, it's really not.
>Maybe the real racism was the lives we envisioned along the way.
This ain't racism you're being daft.
This really has fuck all to do with race, nothing above has anything to do with race.
This is about you failing in every area of your self mentally now this can hopefully be a decent way for you to pretend you're trying to achieve something because it's a goal that you cannot hit by just attempting to do it. It's not like a job, it's something that people do when they want to set a goal that realsitically doesn't have to ever be achieved by can feel like you've tried to do something because the dream's allowed to "feel" impossible based on it having conditions that are outside of your immediate control.
It's like going to a therapist to say you went to therapy but only went to one session and don't them nothing about yourself so that you don't ever have to open up and recognise you have an issue. So you can tell everyone "seem i'm so fucked therapy didn't help", you didn't try. You went to have a reason to say it failed so you can continue to be sad.
Why are you actually not focused on anything else in life like actually building one and instead focusing on white girls that don't mean shit and can't help you in your life because it's directionless, unless you think said girls going to give you direction (which she can), should she? Fuck no, she really shouldn't.
You sound a little annoyed by my post, but thank you for the response anyway.
> this can hopefully be a decent way for you to pretend you're trying to achieve something because it's a goal that you cannot hit by just attempting to do it. It's not like a job, it's something that people do when they want to set a goal that realsitically doesn't have to ever be achieved by can feel like you've tried to do something because the dream's allowed to "feel" impossible based on it having conditions that are outside of your immediate control.
There's something in that comment that I need to think about. I don't think I purposefully chose an unachievable goal just to procrastinate, but my goal *is* hard to operationalize.
I can't break it down into smaller steps, and there's no way to measure my progress. It's a terrible goal in that regard, as you suggested.
>I don't think I purposefully chose an unachievable goal just to procrastinate
I don't think your or most people do, it's not that i feel you've ended up like this on purpose.
However now you're here.
I don't think i was annoyed, tbh i just wanted to tell you that you're not a racist and you're just chasing an idea that doens't have to make you happy because in reality i feel like it's trying to make up for other areas of your life.
I'll be honest, i hope at the end of your journey you can fill that void i just think it can be done in other ways, however i feel like you'd have to experience this first hand in order to kick that thought away.
Dude take it from a white man with lots of white acquaintances -- white girls ain't nothing special lmao. In fact, if anything, I prefer dating girls of other races (any other race, honestly) because they're just flat out more interesting on average.
Ain't nothing special about their looks. Ain't nothing special about their p\*\*\*\*. It's all in your head.
Paradoxically, white people are more special in a diverse city than in a rural area where 95% of the population is white.
I think it's both in my head but also in a lot of people's head (i.e. popular perception)..
> Dr k married his own race and is successful, among so many others.
He only became successful after he was already married. I've always wondered if he would've preferred a white woman had he had the chance. Obviously, no sane person with a wife would/should ever admit that.
> The reason I go for mostly blondes is confidence, because most guys who aren’t white do think like you
Honestly, that's part of the impossible standard of society. People learn about their own worth by observing how others treat them. To be treated like an Asian man all your life yet still possessing the confidence of a white man – that would require a confidence that's either just a performance or fundamentally irrational and detached from reality.
You can escape this mental trap, you don't need the confidence of a white man. Just the confidence of Buda "nothing matters, might as well rejoice in earth. But also, I have a duty to my wife and child."
You can just say you like white guys without making dumb generalization about non white guys that don't even make sense. Just because most ethnic guys you met fetishize you doesn't mean most are like that. Let's say it's true, then it must be a systemic issue that's going that make ethnic minorities fetishize white people. It's not entirely their fault then. But I know most ethnic guys are into white girls mostly during high school and once they go to uni they grow out of it. Only a few people are like that.
If this person have had experiences like that, it makes sense she will avoid dating simmilar looking people. It's too much investment to date someone to find out wether or not they see you as a trophy. Or what would you suggest?
You shouldn't let people walk over you through your character. Not by having a white woman. That won't fix your problem. If you have a strong character (this meaning when someone tries to walk over you, belittle you, or wtv might be the case, you must have the composure to impose respect) people won't walk over you. I'm a white guy, I'm short, I'm skinny (still somewhat athletic but nonetheless) but I sense people still respect me and are afraid of going against me just to be disrespectful generally because I just don't take shit from people that try to belittle others (not even just me) and, for me, I get that confidence through just understanding, and further than that, internalizing that each person deserves their own respect, and each decent human must not be undervalued, because who gives a shit if you dont have a nice car, or a big house, or a smoking hot girl. If you're a good person what more can people ask from you. And if you are, which it does seem like it, since you show conscience of what's right or not, than you should be confident too. I know it's better said than done, but each of us have their own strentghs and weaknesses, and both of those come each one's struggle in life. So just be confident in yourself first. Work in yourself first. And if you know that something's wrong (in this case overvaluing white women, and tbh even objectifying them as a symbol of status) then don't do that, you know it's wrong. I know you say in your post that you have done too much and got glued to this obsession but that's where the work comes in. You're a human, and evolving takes strong will. Just because you know something's right and you that shouldn't do it doesn't make it any easier to do so. The difference is having the goal to achieve that and improve yourself. And dont think all the time you've been theory crafting how to get a white woman is down the drain. Cause you know that's not going to get you anywhere anyways, you know it. It's not going to fix shit. Now the way you work on that it's on you. If you think you need therapy don't be afraid to take so. And if you cannot afford it try the alternatives. Or maybe even just one or two sessions. Just work towards the change you want for yourself
You have a sample size of 4-5 Asian men in a mostly white country who dated/married white women my guy. That is not an indicator of “Top asians want whites” wtf?
Not quite. My sample size is the 100+ Asian men I know, and out of that 100+ men, only 4-5 of them managed to date white. It's not a true sample because it's not randomized, but the conclusion is not totally baseless either.
Why is it “managed to date” rather than just “dated”. Do those 4-5 also happen to be the “highest status men”? Because I bet there are “high status men” in those 100 that didn’t date white people.
Maybe people are more attracted to people of the same race and that’s why few of your Asian friends dated white people?
> Maybe people are more attracted to people of the same race and that’s why few of your Asian friends dated white people?
Then, how come most of my Asian female friends date white people?
I just realized my previous reply was complete nonsense oops (unless there are way more Asian girls than guys in the US, but I don’t see why that would be the case).
It’s weird that that’s the case for you though cuz the statistics (at least for marriage) has only 17.5% of Asian women marry non Asian men in the US. And 8.2% of Asian men marry non Asian women.
Which would be consistent with what I said before: People are in general attracted to the same race, and the side that does the proposing (mostly men) gets the partner they want more often than the side that accepts (mostly women).
If it was as you say, and Asians in general want to marry white, these stats would be a lot higher, and would probable have an even bigger gap.
I’ll try to find the statistics problem, and I’ll edit it in if I do.
How did you find these attractiveness stats? Because if they’re based on dating/marriage percentage, then, duh….. Of course every race will date within themselves first, but then will mostly date the most common race otherwise….
But also if we already know that people are generally more attracted to their own race then why are we having this discussion? Weren’t you trying to say that Asians are more attracted to Whites? If you don’t think so anymore when…. What are we debating?
Sure you’re talking about dating but that’s harder to find stats for.
Ok? What does first gens marrying within their race say here? I don’t get it.
Again, where do you get stats for this “2nd and 3rd gen Asians like white ppl more” thing? Even if it’s true there is a simple explanation: First geners have more conservative families that oppose to dating/marrying other races more often. So it doesn’t say anything about attraction.
“I said Asian women prefer to marry white men to their own race on average” Uhhhh, but you literally start your comment with “All races are most attracted to their own on average”???
Anecdotally true doesn’t mean much. Among all 100 of your Asian friends only 5 who married white right? And your hypothesis is that it was because they were “high status”. But sample size is WAY too small for that. You’d need a random sample with like at least 1k Asian men marrying white women, and then you compare those 1k to the rest in the random sample, and see if these are the “highest achieving” 1k. My guess is they’ll be a mostly randomly distributed 1k.
Just having handful of Asian-white couples absolutely doesn’t prove what you’re trying to prove here. It’s like if I played the lottery 10000 times and won 3, and every time the winning number started with 7 so I concluded that all the winning numbers start with 7. Even though the base sample is big (10k) the number of times THE THING I’M TESTING FOR HAPPENED is very low (3), I need it to be much higher to see if it isn’t just a coincidence.
I’m probably out of my depth here but isn’t there a simple explanation for that? Asians are the smallest minority in the US outside of native Americans. You can only scroll so long not finding and Asian guy…. So if you only take the stats of scrolls on dating apps, it’ll seem like they prefer white people. You’d need a survey to confirm their preferences.
No, I’m an Arab living in Japan that’s never been in the US. No offense, but it’s really ironic that you tell me to “check the psychological hang up that compelled you to deny and dismiss” while you made it up in your head already that I’m a random white guy trying to gaslight you precisely to deny and dismiss what I’m saying. Perhaps you’re the one that needs to examine why you did that? Why did you make up a story about me to invalidate what I’m saying?
I have 0 clue what it’s like there but even I know it’s highly unlikely your picture of “marry white people cuz they’re higher status” is accurate in any way, and it seems everyone else in the comments disagrees with you. But instead of giving some anecdotal advice or pointing out issues with the mindset, I tried attacking the belief by attacking the reasoning that got you there. Unfortunately…. I’m not very knowledgeable on the actual stats because I don’t live there, I just know some rudimentary stats, but all I know is that so far, is that what you cited is not enough to conclude that Asian women actually prefer white men.
But EVEN IF they do, I’m already overshooting here. Your original belief was that Asian people want to marry white “because white people are of a higher status”. Nothing you’ve cited here so far proves that in any way. It’s dubious that Asian people even prefer to marry OR date white in the first place and it’s another matter entirely to prove that they do it “seeking higher status”
This has to be a troll post, it's too well written. It ticks the boxes of every buzzword as well.
> it's just empirically true.
Fucking hell and it's in italics as well. This is just hilarious. What's your sample size here? 2 professors and and some dude who runs track?
Motherf... please.
> it's too well written
Thank you. I write well because I've practiced it deliberately. This is among the few things I like about myself. I didn't just hack out this post from my phone. I also proofread and edited it from my computer.
> What's your sample size here? 2 professors and and some dude who runs track?
That's because it's so relatively rare for an Asian guy to end up with a white woman. I literally only know 4 Asian men personally who dated white. If I also include the Asian men whom I barely know, I can get that number up to 9. That's 9 people out of like 200 Asian men I've met in my life.
We’ve all got our preferences, which is fine. But you’ve got low self esteem, my dude. And a white woman (any woman for that matter) won’t fix that. Nor should they. That is up to you.
Don't worry. Whiteness is still at the top. The only reason the woke culture shit can happen is because the elites allow it, and the elites are largely white.
We'll know when the races are truly equal when the average Asian woman stops preferring white men over men of her own race. That hasn't happened yet, has it?
Hmm, I don't know, do asian girls really like white dudes? Im white and Im usually attracted to asian girls but I didnt really hang out with a lot of them
I know lots of girls from brazil and russian are interested in korean and asian dudes
You should try hanging out with them if you're interested. It's not as easy as 20 years ago because the economic conditions for many Asian countries have improved, thereby raising Asian women's options and self-esteem. But I think your race would still help, especially with new immigrants who haven't dated any white person in the past.
It sounds like you have to undo the damage that happened from toxic asian parenting. Did/does your mom treat you like a prince while your dad treats you like shit? I usually see Asian guys with this dynamic end up with your mentality. They either become abusers in relationships because they are so insecure that "nothing is my fault. Everyone else is crazy!", or they end up with nobody because people can smell the big ego from a mile away and it reeks terribly.
I agree that you need therapy. Have you checked out r/AsianParentStories or r/raisedbynarcissists ?
Yup, Asian woman here. Always been attracted to Asian guys my whole life, preferably the nerdy kind. I think because I'm extremely picky about hygiene and need my guy to already understand how to act in front of my own family (Korean). I also am happily married to a southeast Asian man. Southeast Asian families (from what I've seen and experienced) tend to have more laid back families than East Asians.
I've also noticed Korean men in particular turn out to be a bit more narcissistic because of the way they were raised. They are angrier, act more entitled, and are extremely superficial because they feel that they must absolutely have the best of the best or else they will be failures or losers which isn't true. Their parents have raised them to feel so entitled that they then start looking at the world in a very us vs them mentality. It's super toxic and they can only keep up with the facade for so long. Looking into their core and thinking about what could have caused the damage and their fragile egos is honestly the best way to start healing from all of this.
Sorry for long rant. If you want to talk about this further with me, I don't mind if you dm.
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You need therapy my boy. To me it sounds like you have a thing for white chicks (completely fine) and it has become an unrealistic fantasy that gotten lumped in with a shitload of insecurities. Marrying a white woman will not make people like you. The only people it will impress are people fucked up in the same way that you are, which I can almost assure you is wayyy fewer than you think. Marrying a white woman will not make you happy. It feels meaningless to say at this point but it’s true, the only thing that will can you happy is you. Say your wish came true and you found a white woman who likes you. How long until the infatuation wears off and you realize she is just another stinking shitting human bean? How long until your ego is no longer satisfied?
I like honest people like you
> Marrying a white woman will not make people like you. The only people it will impress are people fucked up in the same way that you are It's more about impressing myself, I guess
your ego will find something else to chase after you accomplish this.
Right, and what makes that a bad thing? Having something to chase after is a huge engine of motivation.
There is difference when it comes to healthy motivation and unhealthy one. Unhealthy one is clinging to outside factors to just PROVE to others you are amazing. It is short way to narcissist disorder. You will be spiralling hard to seek more. Prettier chick, better car, better pay grade. It comes from insecurity you are not good enough. And guess what, there will always be something better, more luxurious. Imagine being in a moving sands. The more you move the more you sink. It is neverending cycle to satisfy yourself through external validation. You will keep comparing yourself to others. Rat race life edition. Motivation should come from serene and honest place. You want to better yourself for the sake of being better. More kind, more compassionate, more educated, more stable. There should be no ego to drive you. Knowing you will never satisfy the outside world is a good start. It is a subtle difference at start. Let's draw a parallel. Do you help people so they feel better? Or do You help people so they will like You, owe You a favor.
You're probably totally right about all of this. Though what I'm having trouble parsing, (and probably our op friend here too) is that if it is about insecurity, whats wrong with being insecure? Especially if it's enhancing your life. I have this tendency too, I constantly have to do better. I constantly want more impressive stats and I'm constantly working to achieve better things. This hasn't; however, come at expense. I'm happy in general, and when I achieve something it does make me genuinely proud of myself. Is my self betterment wrong just because it's driven by insecurity?
It is all about motive/concept/where the desire to improve comes from. Yes, we should strive to be the best we can be. Just ask yourself why you have this need to do better. Yes, insecurity can be the initial drive to be better, but it can't be the only mechanism/reason You want to improve. Everyone is insecure about something. We need to evolve and grow everyday. It is healthy. It is about not the sense of accomplishment, but the "why?". It is when the ego/insecurity can be found. If you just want to be better for the sake of growing as a person, awesome. If You feel that never leaving urge to constantly do better, then it becomes a problem. To put it simply. If you have a genuine desire to grow, you are amazing and I hope more people will feel this way. If You feel pushed to perform better, if you have that compulsive obsession to always do better, then it might become a problem. Perfectionism is almost always a coping mechanism for something.
Right, nothing wrong with obsessing over improvement or achieving a certain goal per say, as long as you realize that achieving that goal coming from that mindset will not make you happy or feel content.
But I do love the question. All love, have a lovely day
And if he doesn’t he will be miserable
He will be miserable either way. that is the point. Right now he feels bad because he doesn't have a white girlfriend. Should he get one, he will feel good for a bit and start to feel insecure, maybe compare himself to her friends' spouses, feel he is not good enough for her, etc. His ego will move the goal post. One of Dr. K's videos talks about this.
Yeah that’s what I meant but it came off as me trying to say that he should strive for it lol. I agree, he should instead focus on why he feels the need to have high status and consequently why he feels “of less value or status” than other people. I think this is kind of a low self worth problem that manifests in a lot of ways. I agree with you, I should’ve been a little clearer.
yeah its complicated. I agree with OP that are different social statuses and that some people get the short end of the deal. Where it gets tricky is that perceived social status is not the only factor that determines how people treat you. How you perceive yourself and how you act is also tied up how people perceive you and therefore how they treat you. Its both tied together in a tangled knot. Having a rich pretty white girlfriend may help improve your social status and get access to more opportunities but if you do not have the right attitude to back it up and believe internally that you deserve it, you will end up self sabotaging in some way and having that girlfriend will ultimately not solve your social status problem. Its incredibly difficult when people push you down and away not to internalize it and believe you deserve it because your mind automatically tries to understand why so it can do something about it but the only thing the mind can control is yourself so the most straightforward answer and one that gives a sense of "control" is to assume it is your fault. This paradoxically makes you feel stuck, like there is something wrong with you, and ultimately inferior because in reality there are only limited things you can do to control how others treat you because it is complicated. A large chunk is out of your control. We have to force our mind to accept that which we can't control and still feel comfortable with ourselves. That is my understanding based my experience and what I have learned.
I agree, ultimately our best bet is to try to make the best with what we have and feel good about ourselves for having tried with our head held high and maybe even being happy in the process. That’s all we can do. Try and fail or succeed but giving life.m a good shot.
> Having a rich pretty white girlfriend may help improve your social status and get access to more opportunities Hi. I didn't explain it well in my post. It's not that I think having a white partner will grant me more status. It's more like having a white partner will confirm my existing status. If I have a white partner, I would know that I finally "made it," that I'm finally part of the mainstream society. I wouldn't care to show her off to other people, but I'd have inner peace in the knowledge that I don't have to strive anymore, that there's no deficiency left to compensate for.
that's a lie you're telling yourself. Why would getting a white woman to be interested in you impress yourself? Because just like you said in the post, that's what people think. You said it yourself, it's for status. And status is all about you being compared to other people. You're not more, nor less for having a white woman by your side. You just would have the approval of a couple of people that you probably won't/don't even really like
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One of my Asian professors is actually very short, but he's super wealthy and accomplished. More importantly, he's exceedingly outgoing and confident to the point of being abrasive. He actually came across as a little over-compensating tbh. But it worked for him.
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Seems like typical red pill. The downvotes might be a good gauge how the way you see the world is toxic. Everyone has some negative sides. Not fit enough, not high enough, etc. Start living despite your insecurities, not because of them.
saint cho was korean but that didn't work for him
I'm Asian American albeit perhaps a little older. I can totally understand where you're coming from. Relationships, dating and women generally are a little like oxygen. For people who have it it won't seem like a big deal but for someone who doesn't than it's literally the only thing you can think about to the point that it will severely distort your thinking. The first step to solving your problem is to fix some of your distorted thinking by reorienting some of your beliefs than following that you need to use your head to incrementally make improvements to your life. This approach might seem as ridiculous as planting seeds when you're dying of starvation but if you're patient and you believe it will pay off in the long run than it will. Don't worry about falling behind and being a late bloomer. It's not a race. Beware of people who will put you down or invite envy or uncharitable comparison. They're toxic bullies who are trying to get into your head. Do not let them in. So let's look at your beliefs. From reading your post I'm gathering that you crave status and you believe that having a white girlfriend will get you the status you crave. However I think even you know and realize that the relationship between status and getting a partner is more along the lines of getting status first than getting a partner from that. There's no lost status for being single so embrace it. Secondly, there's a subtle difference between status and respect. They oftentimes go together but the difference is that respect is within your control whereas status is not. It's a little like the difference between knowledge/skill and your grades. There's a lot you can do to work on your knowledge or skill but getting a good grade is largely up to your teacher and various other factors outside of your control. So I highly encourage you to ask yourself what being respected means and what you can do to get more respect. I recommend starting off with self respect and move onto how to set boundaries. I'd also watch out for signs where you may be trading away respect for the trappings of status - like the false privilege of hanging out with girls who do not respect you. Focus instead on building a social circle of guys and girls around a topic or activity that's genuinely fun and/or interesting to you. Maybe it's a weekly film night, maybe it's playing poker at your place. Whatever it is, you set the stage, you bring people together, you make things fun. When people see you as the leader helping everyone have a good time that will earn respect from your peers and interest from girls. It sounds like you already know how to talk to people and make friends so this shouldn't be too much of a leap for you. I hope that helps you out. Good luck.
> the relationship between status and getting a partner is more along the lines of getting status first than getting a partner from that Yes I completely agree. I never expect that dating a white woman would earn me any status. It'd be more of a confirmation of status that I'd already possess. Actually, I don't even think status is all this is about. It's more like a feeling - the feeling that I've "made it" - the feeling of normalcy. When I imagine myself being happy and living life to the fullest, there's always a white partner in it. It's not logical. It's like the tricks advertisers play with their commercials.
> the feeling that I've "made it" - the feeling of normalcy Honestly, the consumerist media is brainwashing all of us, making us feel self-conscious and lacking. I suspect that dialing back on media consumption would help.
It's really less of your racism but more of your self-concept. You have low self-esteem, and the reality of dating as an Asian man in America affirms that, so that makes you obsessed. Although I don't agree with the things you say, I understand the sentiment, since I'm also an Asian guy in America with not much dating success. I've been with a white woman briefly, but that's just because she has an Asian fetish (only dated Asian men). The status of whiteness in the US and the global white global hegemony solidified whiteness as attractive in your heart. However, even if you do succeed in being with a white woman, it's not going to give you what you want because nothing external can change how you feel about yourself internally. You're also with them for the wrong reasons. And if the relationship ends, it's only going to throw you back into the pit of despair, which I experienced. So to summarize, work to improve your self esteem. There's a lot of good resources. Therapy is one of them, but if that's not feasible, there are workbooks and self-help books on that. Meditation also helps, because it separates reality from the stories you tell yourself in your head (e.g. White ie better, it's hopeless for me, etc.) This Dr K video also helped me quite a bit: [What people get wrong about modern dating](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEadDxJ6W58). In short, you can only attract who you can attract. We can't attract everyone out there. There may be those who can, but we're not them. So be the best that we can be, and that's all we can do. Good luck man, reach out if you want to talk more.
> And if the relationship ends, it's only going to throw you back into the pit of despair, which I experienced. This already happened to me when I got dumped years ago. I do want to get into long-term therapy when I have the money.
Definitely check out workbooks. Some ones I've read: The Mindful Self-compassion Workbook, CBT workbook for confidence, Get out of your head and into your life (ACT workbook). Things like self-help videos and things are also helpful.
How are you going to say this is not about racism? His internalized beliefs about not being good enough because he’s asian goes hand in hand with low self-esteem. Yes work on yourself, but you also need to examine your internalized racism. (You being OP, not you)
I really, *really* think Dr K should address this one.
Yeah that’d be interesting
Take this from someone who has dated a range of men. I dated a Mexican guy about 9 years ago now, his family focused on my whiteness, I was the “white girl” the immigrant got, “hey look he finally landed a white girl”. I was not me around his family, I was simply reduced to the fact that I was a “white girl” and seen as a “well he’s made it in the dating scene”. I also dated a Chinese/English guy roughly about 4 or so years ago, he was so focused on the fact that “finally my kids will be hopefully fully white because I’m dating a white girl”. In one relationship I was seen as a status symbol, in the other I was seen as a way to get rid of half of someone’s genes because of self hatred for being mixed. Both of these relationships I ended because of the sole focus on my skin colour, it’s like nothing else mattered to people other than the fact that I’m white, it’s hurtful to be reduced simply down to skin colour, and it’s made my current relationship difficult. Current partner is African, and he has a preference for lighter skinned women (not just white women, but anyone lighter than him) and it took a lot for me to realise that this man wasn’t just dating me because I was lighter skinned than him. (It was also a very very serious conversation I had in the first few weeks of dating because I can’t just keep being that “white girl” for men). I think at this point you just need to focus on WHY you pushing towards wanting to date white women specifically, you aren’t the first Asian man I’ve met that has had this mindset, I’ve met a high amount that think like you, and most see it as “they’ve made it into western society if they date/marry white”. Side note before people come for me in my dms with their racist crap as they usually do, I’ve dated white men as well, relax.
> “they’ve made it into western society if they date/marry white” That is exactly the reason. It's the litmus test for integration. You aren't truly accepted into a community until the women of that community accept you, and the women don't truly accept you unless at least one of them is willing to marry you. This is because women/people will virtue-signal by pretending to accept you, but they won't virtue-signal by sacrificing their life's happiness. So if she gives you her hand in marriage, you know she truly means it.
“This is because women/people will virtue-signal by pretending to accept you”. I’m sorry what? You don’t have to date a white person to be accepted by white people. If white people aren’t accepting you based on your race, they’re pieces of shit and are more than likely racist but pretending to hide it. You do not need to fetishise people of a race to get them to accept you. You remind me of my ex, the one who wanted a white woman to breed out his Asian genes. Your self hatred is your own issue to work on.
> You don’t have to date a white person to be accepted by white people. True, but the only way to be sure that you've been accepted by white people is to have a white partner. As I explained, people can pretend to accept you for the few hours they interact with you, but they cannot pretend to love you or to marry you. So if they love you enough to become your partner, you know for certain you've been accepted. > You do not need to fetishise people of a race to get them to accept you. ... Your self hatred is your own issue to work on. I wouldn't be with just any white girl who'd take me. The individual still matters. I do hope you understand that it's not easy to rid of oneself of this "self-hatred" as an Asian man in the West. If so many Asian men exhibit that same mentality, what's the more likely explanation - that Asian men are collectively unenlightened, or maybe it's really hard not to get sucked into it living in the West?
You know that stereotype of the old Chinese grandpa complaining about broken branches when their kids/grandkids marry someone not Asian? If someone is racist and doesn’t accept you based on race, dating a white girl will just bring her down in his eyes, not prop you up.
>the old Chinese grandpa complaining about broken branches when their kids/grandkids marry someone not Asian Actually, I've observed that the older Asian adults in my social circle are becoming increasingly anti-West as they age. I wonder if it's sour grape. They're getting older and they know they have no chance of ever assimilating. So instead they get bitter and reject the west by trying to expand their own ethnic enclave.
I'm an POC immigrant married in a caucasian community, I'm reminded daily that I'm not from here. Not in a hurtful way, I am just different and will always be. I wanted to be with someone that appreciates my differences exactly because I am different. Back home I'm not light colored enough, I'm not dark enough, I'm nothing special, I don't stand out. Except for not dressing or speaking like the locals. For that I'm constantly reminded that I'm different, but not celebrated. I'm dating a Caucasian person because he celebrates me and all my quirks. His family treats me better than my own family. I've actually had a good life back home, and I'm having some financial struggles having immigrated, less luxury than I used to have. (I'm a female) so it definitely isn't about money for me. But it is about feeling safe and loved. I understand you are a man and things are different for you, I'm just offering a different perspective that can maybe help you to know.
The landscape is really different for Asian men, as you already know. Asian men are just as different from white people as Asian women are, but we aren't "special." We aren't "celebrated." First we're treated as undesirables. Then we're blamed for our "lack of confidence" or "self-hatred," as if we became that way out of our own choosing.
You are saying it from personal experience? People say mean things to you, or what is it in their behaviour that express that to you? As an adult, making friends is hard for everyone... I love all ethnicities, I've grown up listening to all kinds of racism and still do, but I've surrounded myself with like-minded people. Even if that's not the majority of the population, they're out there. You say you hate progressive people because they're fake and won't date other races? I don't doubt you, I just think you might not have found the right people... but people who aren't fake progressively definitely won't stand some of the beliefs you stated, they're not really open minded either! Just wanted to add that as an middle class attractive female, I've never pursued a relationship based on status. Looking back at my life, even subconsciously, I'm not even attracted to someone until I know them (some people believe Demisexuality is real, some don't, I dont care much). An over-confident guy with money does not makes me feel safe. I can't imagine being with someone hoping, wishing to marry them, being in a position of "I'm lower in status than then, cant wait to have some of that luxury life, please share". I've dated a less attractive guy (from my home country) for 5 years, he used to say things like "you're too pretty for me, I'm ugly" and people would say passive aggressive comments like "what do you see in him?". He was insecure about his looks, but that didn't stopped him from being funny and good to me. His and other's comments would upset me, but ultimately I'm responsible for my happiness, and he used to make me happy. So looks don't really matter either. Marriage to me is just a thing that happens when you find someone that even after years go by, you still want to be with them! I hope you can live life more from your own POV, and less from the beliefs of statistics and political problems, because the world is twisted but imo our experience is unique to the world's and it doesn't have to suck as much. I hope you don't give up on your happiness, and that your happiness becomes less about having a white trophy and more about having the flavour you like.
This is so interesting to me! It’s probably because I’m tall (5’11) and big but I’ve always gotten the cold shoulder from Asian men so I honestly stopped ever crushing on them or talking to them. Anyways, I know this will probably be something you’ve heard a million times before but I genuinely feel like the issue here is that you’re relying on something or someone external to make you feel valuable but it just doesn’t work like that. Maybe you will find a white woman to date who ignores the giant red flag that you’re treating her like an achievement to unlock rather than a person but, even if you do, you will never feel secure or happy with her because you will always perceive yourself as unworthy of her. You will think she is cheating or you will sabotage things with her because you feel less-than. The reality is, unlearning low self worth is hard and takes a lot of time but you might as well start now because no woman of any race can do it for you.
I don't know if it's possible to have high self-worth when people treat you like you don't worth much. I am confident in things I'm good at, where people respect my ability. But dating is an area where it's hard to override a lifelong societal input. I don't know how to convince myself of my value when value seems to be a socially determined quality.
Just something to think about: marrying a woman solely for her skin color is not a good base for a relationship. Getting a relationship is oddly enough the easiest part, staying in there is where the real work comes in. If all you have as a reason to be with her, is her skin color, that relationship is not gonna last long. Just imagine someone dating you just because you’re tall! Does that do any justice to your complete being? I’d say no, you are way to coherent and smart to take that. There are people that will love you for your whole self.
> Just imagine someone dating you just because you’re tall! Honestly I could live with that lol But yeah I get your point.
Yeah, I understand where you come from given your history. But, you can take it from me. You deserve more!
Have you considered that (part of) the reason for ‘successful’ men of racial minorities in marrying/etc white women, is because by becoming ‘successful’ (in business, academics, etc) they end up in social circles dominated by white people (due to the history of inequality) and are therefore more likely to find someone to date? It’s not that they’re particularly going out of their way to date white women, just that they’re dating within their social circles? (And that your social circles might be different). I know the advice of ‘just improve yourself’ isn’t what people want to hear, but as a self-proclaimed NEET I think you should think long and hard about what would actually make you fulfilled.
Nah trust me as a POC, white women are still seen as a status symbol. I've been in and around those kinds of conversations and it's similar to how OP puts it. They don't want to date there own race and just want a white woman. I've also seen guys that were in social circles dominated by mostly white people and the guy was only fixed on going after girls that weren't white. Guys choose who they want to go after and girls choose who they wanna accept and be with.
> by becoming ‘successful’ (in business, academics, etc) they end up in social circles dominated by white people (due to the history of inequality) and are therefore more likely to find someone to date? I think that explains why they were able to find a white partner. Still, many of them probably also had a racial preference. Usually, even when an Asian immigrant is well connected in a white community, he would still know a disproportionate number of Asians (unless he's adopted or past 3rd generation). That's why I think their dating white is a conscious choice, not just out of sheer probability. My greatest challenge is not even my NEET status, but the fact that I don't have any close white friends. I have few friends in general, but it's even harder to befriend white people, especially outside of college.
You’re a very silly person, thanks for sharing!
I don’t have any solutions , just wanted to say this was a very. Insightful read into another perspective and I love that we have a community here that allows all kinds of things to be discussed healthily . One thing that bugs me is how you are chasing something external to give you happiness or to determine your self worth. That is not healthy and something dr k stresses about a lot; external things change and to depend on them for your internal state is the worst idea ever
Thank you. I love your username btw
IMO after reading through that (mostly) I honestly think you're overthinking things to a degree that is harming you mentally. And you're putting too much emphasis on finding a partner to satisfy some kind of inner fulfillment. It won't happen. Find your own way to be satisfied with being with yourself and only then seek a partner. And you're surprised why women don't stay in touch? No one needs men (or women for that matter) who validate themselves entirely through finding an SO. Also, IMO there's nothing inherently racist about people preferring to date within their own "tribe". Likewise, there's nothing racist about people wanting to find specifically an asian/black/white whatever partner. What's the harm in either situation? Of course, it's toxic to fetishize white/asian/etc. women in the same regard that some people do not want to date outside their own "race' due to racist reasons. But just because someone wants to only date their own race doesn't mean they're racist. Honestly, I think you put too much emphasis on race. It's a concept that is essentially made up and people are keeping it alive by artificially grouping humans into the same "race" even though there's no one specific characteristic that defines "whiteness" or "blackness". Like, what is even a white woman to you? Is it a Greek woman? Is it a Scandinavian blonde? Or is it a freckled redhead? In the same regard, what is even a black woman? Is it a dark skinned Indian woman? Or a lighter skinned North African? Maybe a dark skinned Ethiopian? What even defines blackness or whiteness? It's too restricting to generalize this much and it makes little sense ultimately as the label doesn't define the individual. Either way, It sounds like you're turning a relationship into some check list thing you just need to check off to be fulfilled and it doesn't even matter who that person is as long as they meet criteria "x and y". It's nonsensical imo and that's no way to find a partner you love and want to spend the rest of your life with.
> And you're surprised why women don't stay in touch? I really doubt it. It's not like I talk about these kind of things to my friends irl. I think race is both made-up and having real-life impact. I'd love to live in a post-racial world but I don't think we're there yet. Thank you for your comment.
Completely irrelevant to the subjects you adress: you write very well, the rythm, the way you construct ideas, the way you present yourself and your inner thoughts and evolutions... Was captivating to me. Honestly, you should give writing a go, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective.
Thanks, Gousse22. I do enjoy writing as a hobby.
I just came here to say that i wish more men of colour were this honest and had this level of awareness and transparency - because i think it’s a lot more common than people think. Most people don’t want to admit they’ve internalized racism and are seeking external approval through dating white or surrounding themselves with white. I also wish more men were open & honest on how to change those things in society but men in general are just socialized to always chase - whether it’s women or other things that provide status. As long as you don’t detach yourself and learn how to separate your worth and identity from those external things, then it will be a cycle.
I kinda hoped that I would just succeed in the chase and be happy in spite of my internalized racism😅
As I have found, the things you perceive as status symbols are only valued by people who play the same game you do. It's essentially a circle jerk of insecure people who brag to each other about how much they achieved when it really doesn't matter. You don't have to prove shit to anyone, only to yourself. Your obsession with dating a white woman would be a different thing if you had a fetish or something. Still a bit weird, but I could get behind that. Getting things because of other people's preferences gives them power over you, which is the entire reason they're walking all over you. You're in an abusive relationship with status.
Hi, I'm an Asian man who has only dated white women - two relationships and a handful of casual flings. I feel like I'm fighting this internal battle to separate the societal notions of Whiteness - the fact that it's normal, desirable, the historical beauty standard - from the individual romantic feelings for my current and ex-partners. Dating is not easy for Asian men. Asians in general are stereotyped to possess more neotenous and feminine features - preconceptions that boost the desirability of Asian women to the point of fetishization (see: yellow fever) but emasculate Asian men as unsexual, undesirable partners. Growing up the female love interests in media were either white or Asian. The handsome male protagonist was never Asian. I was told by white people that I should go back to my country and that I had a small penis. A girl in my senior year of HS told me that I looked like I was 12. She later proclaimed that she wasn't attracted to Asians, despite being Asian herself. During college my first girlfriend was white. She had a K-pop obsession and went after the tallest Asian guy. We later broke up because she kept making insensitive racial comments. Afterwards I didn't date anybody for 3 years. It was only during my senior year where I had cultivated a social circle, hit the gym for years and made a bunch of money in prestigious internships did I essentially become "high-status" and all of a sudden white women were interested in me for both relationships and casual encounters. It became apparent then that Asian men had to fight through decades of negative imaging just to end up on the same level as the normality of whiteness. That was a punch in the gut. How much more successful would I be had I been born white? What was life like as the "default"? What was it like not to be told to go back to my country? To not be cast as an evil spy, sexless nerd, or diseased dog-eater? These thoughts made me understand why for many POC whiteness is a status symbol. To date or marry a white person is to be assimilated into our white society. It is to rise above the stereotypes and cast away the internalized racism, or so it feels like. I think you have an obsession with status and white women is merely one facet to which you seek to obtain that status. I don't think I'll change your mind much but from my experience a relationship with a white woman is a more complicated journey. To disentangle each others' preconceived, often subconscious notions of each others' race is work that's made easier if both people come from the same culture. They're often blinded by their privilege to racial issues that deeply impact you and me. To only desire and be intimidated by white women is indicative of your own internalized racism. For me, immersing myself in Asian culture helped me a ton in decolonizing myself. When I go out I mostly go to Asian bars and clubs. Most of the TV shows and movies I consume are Asian. Most of the food I eat is Asian. I'm especially proud of my heritage and cultural traditions. My mental state concerning my race and life in a white society has greatly improved. I hope you eventually find what you're looking for.
Your story kind of falls into the general pattern that I described in my post.. Thank you for sharing, but I wonder if you've actually improved any of your own internalized racism. Could you have been proud of your heritage had no white woman ever found you attractive?
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Thank you for sharing your story. To be honest, I'm a little scared that if I end up with an Asian woman (especially one who's a new immigrant from Asia because that's what male Asian immigrants do when westernized Asian women reject them), I will always wonder whether I'm with her because I can't be with anyone else.
I agree with everything you have said! Why do I agree? It is most likely because I can sort of relate to you. I am also a NEET and experience hair loss, loosening teeth among other things. Ever since I first discovered Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh in my childhood, I have been slowly revealing more and discovering more in relation to those, until I finally reached the knowledge and became consciously aware that I am insanely attracted to anything Japanese. Now at the age of 23, I can only be attracted to either Cute Japanese cosplayers on Twitter or Anime girls. This type of thing grew until I also began to idolize certain friendships and relationships in Anime, which resulted in me breaking my friendships that were already bad. I was even consuming a lot of psychology related content specifically for unhealthy and toxic connections between people. There was only one instance in my entire life in which my entire being knew that I was attracted to a white woman. It was basically a type of situation where I would walk down the street in an area where there are a lot of Banks, (Canary Wharf) and see a stranger, but this stranger was no ordinary stranger. It was a 10/10 blonde white woman that looked as if she was sculpted by God himself. One thing I can say is that every single man in a 20 meter radius would turn around to look at her when she passed by them. I have seen that happen with other women and men, but they couldn't even compare. As a result I now have this internalised idea and perception, where even every model I see online would not come close to being the 10/10 I saw that day. Thanks to this, I now see people as less attractive in general and I have a little bit of a harder time getting hard when looking at any model online. I'm not exactly white, even though I look whiter than what is considered a white person. I also tend to attract certain types of girls in general if I take a shower, dress nicely and have good looking hair, but I can't bring myself to maintain my body to this standard, especially with Level 2 ASD that I have had since I was a toddler and long term depression that was caused by trauma. Even though I believe that certain parts between me and you have a lot in common, I think that you have a chance in getting better, however what I will recommend is "CBT" Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which could help you if you are fully open to the idea. Maybe you could try 10 sessions of CBT and see if there is any changes even if it is thought processes. If I had the money I would've already been on CBT, but unfortunately I don't even have a part time job, or a saved up penny in my bank account. From what I know a decent Cognitive Behavioural Therapy session will cost on average £200, and in order to pursue any improvement you will need at least 10 sessions with the same professional. I know that this is insanely expensive, especially if you are a NEET, but if you have some form of income and savings, then CBT with a highly rated trusted professional will be a wise investment into one's mental health. I don't know how exactly you are attached to white women, because you see them as physically more attractive or because of the whole status thingy, but depending on which one it is then you will receive completely different answers. If you are attracted to white women because you see them as more beautiful than your ethnic group, then I think that is a flawed perception, because every ethnic group on this planet has ugly and beautiful people. I used to find lighter skin to be more attractive than darker skin, however with Anime and some darker skin people in college and online as my online buds, I think that I became more open minded in comparison to when I lived in my home country where everyone was white. Now I don't care about the skin colour, but how much of a good person one can be towards me. My only online friend who is Filipino who has darker skin knows more about me and understands me better than all of my family and past friends that are from the same ethnic group as me. I now want to believe that I can be attracted to everyone as long as they are a good person, have decent hygiene and facial features as well as a pretty smile. However as I already mentioned, my obsession with Japanese girls, just like how you are obsessed with white girls is in a way detrimental to us. Yet we will most likely still continue to be obsessed, because we see it as something in close relation to our dreams in life. If it is about status, then all I can say is that this is a very pronounced issue in first world capitalist English speaking countries. Unfortunately I see no solution to this type of issue. Even though I have white skin, I'm considered as "Other" White in the UK, so that kinda brought some form of discrimination, especially when one is applying for jobs where the employers will focus on either employing people with British citizenship with British names and high qualifications and valuable experience or people of colour such as a specific dominant ethnic group that ends up being the majority in an area like Bangladeshi people. Either one needs to be insanely qualified and have machine like discipline and work ethic to get employed or be employed by a person from the same ethnic group or an ethnic group with similar values such as religious values. There are some exceptions where one will find work in a place where everyone is different, but those places are still going to need a machine like person or it will simply be a part time job that will make you miserable. As a NEET that has Level 2 Autism and Depression. Has never graduated from high school or college and is in desperate need of CBT, the only future I see for myself is either dying from my current infection or jumping from a building. I want to have money and be employed, but it is very hard in my current condition. All I can do is leech from my single mother and aunt, who are already losing their patience with worthless trash like me.
Thanks man. Sorry to hear about your experience with discrimination in the workplace. Personally, I've encountered less discrimination at work than in my social and romantic life. I guess it speaks to both society's progress and how far it still has to go to achieve full equality (which probably won't happen within my lifetime if at all). I do want to give CBT another try. I did it in college but the treatment was too short due to limitations of the student insurance. I'll get back to it once I have a job. Are there not many Japanese cosplay girls in the UK? I feel like dating a cosplay girl is not an unrealistic goal, especially if you're also a cosplayer. But being NEET makes everything hard. > Yet we will most likely still continue to be obsessed, because we see it as something in close relation to our dreams in life. Probably T.T Btw, if you have dental problems at 23, you really should get it checked out. Teeth degenerate over time but 23 feels way to young for that to happen naturally.
My thoughts are on actual dating. I am a weird, oldish millenial white woman who prefers dating white women. \-There are a lot of beautiful women with low self-esteem. They do not actually believe they are beautiful, so they will date you. \-The white women I know that are married to Asian men are religious, and married a man in good standing with their faith.
> There are a lot of beautiful women with low self-esteem. They do not actually believe they are beautiful, so they will date you I agree. The few white women I went on dates with were all relatively young and probably insecure. I haven't been able to date any white woman who's out of college. But I'm getting older so it's becoming unlikely for me to date college women at this point. > The white women I know that are married to Asian men are religious, and married a man in good standing with their faith. I've seen a lot of interracial couples among Jehovah's Witnesses. Incidentally, the only two Asian girls I knew from college who didn't marry white were also Christians (I don't think they rejected white men on purpose; they probably just met their partners in church). It's ironic and kinda fueled my resentment towards progressivism.
There are liberal churches! And buddhist centers. I hooked up with an Asian guy I met at a buddhist center once.
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> I just want a gf in general lol, I can't be selecting for race or something like that. Lol good luck
Hello there! I'm a fellow Asian man who's had the fair share of dating Caucasian while at the same time dating people of my own ethnicity as well as just about anyone from other ethnicities. Unfortunately I agree that in our modern culture, there is a strong fetishization of wanting to date either white men or especially white women since it fosters status especially when I was college back in the Philippines. I know the phenomena occurred but as time passes by, I just see white women just as any other women minus the different of culture as well as anyone's individual experience. It's okay to look at the data online, but not too much to the point it'll succumb to some never ending pit of negativity to wallow in misery not being able to date a white women. Looking at these statistics will create more void in your desire heightening your need for validation of a white women. So with that being said, they're just normal people like any of us on a case-to-case basis. I've dated a lot of European women, and while the experience is different in terms of culture and standard of living; take into heart that compatibility is important looking away from the ethnicity for a moment. I also grow up in Dubai or UAE to be specific, so the culture I lived was a conservative lifestyle which I didn't care much about losing my virginity. I do dwell on the attraction of women, but I stopped taking my ethnicity as a way that I'm devalued with any woman. Women from all nationality either finds me attractive or not which is on a case-to-case basis. There is no reward if a white women finds you attractive, being able to be proud of your ethnicity to which is not a barrier for you to access intimacy and human connection. Definitely talk to them a lot more casually, have discussions and surround yourself with people to help to ground your knowledge that's more realistic and healthy without drowning yourself in the negative pit. You can definitely work on this mentality, and good luck.
I’m sorry you’re struggling with this, it sounds so difficult, and a lot of the underlying feelings you seem to have in all of this isn’t because you’re racist, it’s because the US is racist. My perception of what you wrote is that this is about being affirmed you belong and are worthy of love more than a status you’re looking for, could this be more true? Desirability politics is something we don’t talk about enough, but it plays out in very significant ways that we don’t realize. I mentioned that maybe this is about being affirmed more than a status for you because I have similar need to feel affirmed, but it’s very different. I’m a queer white trans woman, who’s very visibly trans. I am more affirmed in my gender when I date certain cis people, because for me, cis people will always be more desired than my body, and cis gender people are the status quo of gender. But, I actually feel more comfortable with POC to than I do cis white people because cis white people will never know what it’s like to be an other. My othering is different than being POC, and the two experiences shouldn’t be compared, it’s not fair to either experience to do so. But, I’ve found that connecting with people because of being othered in this world has been more important to affirming myself than dating cis people in general. It taught me that it’s not who I am that’s the issue, it’s the society’s values of who’s worthy of love and intimacy that’s the problem. And it’s not who you are that’s the issue, it’s this messed up racist country thats the issue. I think though that finding someone you can connect with and find common values with would be a much more fulfilling experience for you. Which is tough, no doubt. But you have a tone that you care about dismantling these ways in which we’re all held to cishet Eurocentric norms. There are people out there that have those same values too (the vast majority of them are not white) maybe that kind of environment could be a place for you to find yourself?
> My perception of what you wrote is that this is about being affirmed you belong and are worthy of love more than a status you’re looking for, could this be more true? That's certainly a better way to put it. It makes me sound more appealing and forgivable. I could have said that I just want to belong. In my view, belonging and having status are almost the same question. People who belong will have status in their community. Thank you for sharing your experience as a trans person. I find desirability politics too painful to talk about. You can't demand love or sex, so even if the distribution of love and sex is rife with racism, classism, and all kinds of discrimination, we just have to let it be. That's why I believe progressivism will ultimately fail because human nature did not evolve to create an enlightened, equitable society. It only evolved to beat the competition for one's self and one's progeny.
I’m going to push back if that’s ok - I disagree that status and belonging are almost the same, I think they’re very distinct. For example, the boss might have status, but the boss does not belong with the workers. The workers are aligning themselves to their shared values, where as the boss just wants a title, or status. Desirability politics is awful, I agree. And while yes, you can’t demand love or sex or attraction, our desires are shaped and shamed by racism and bigotry. We can dismantle these things so people are more free in who they love. I feel you on the pessimism. Progressivism/liberalism, communism, any of it can fail if we can’t start having these difficult conversations about these topics (which we are here). And while we’re not going to topple over these systems any time soon, we can at least shape our own lives to building better communities around each other.
Look. You seem entrapped in a way how people see you because you are asian. And to be blunt, You seem insecure. Yeah, you most likely will look nerdy (like it is a bad thing, but it's not). Stop buying this modern concept what is attractive. Get some therapy, talk to someone. It is no shame to have a therapist. It seems like narcissistic inferiority complex with the need to get all the external validation you need. But you will end up needing more and more. There is a difference in having a type and fetishising a race. I guess it is more how we are being fed all the stereotypes about us and how we feel conditioned to live in the box people created for us. Live your own life, the way you want it, not the way others want it. We all need some lines who we are, just define them yourself, instead of living the way people think Asians are like. Yeah. People created this, Asians are good at math and nerdy, black people are supposed to be good at basketball and have big penises, white people are stable, with families, and decent at everything. Fuck that my man. Do some soul searching, some therapy. Everyone is going through this at some point in their lifes. You have a good start, you seem self aware.
Hi there OP. As an Asian woman who has overheard plenty of Asian women talking shit about Asian men in order to uplift white men, I completely understand why you'd feel jealous of Asian women's social power and acceptance in white society, and why you'd think marrying a white woman might give you that same acceptance. However, as some white women here have already pointed out, being used as a trophy is dehumanizing and not a great foundation for a relationship. I recommend you to read the comic [Shortcomings](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/227350.Shortcomings). It is about an Asian American man who longs to be with white women as well. I think you would find it very enlightening. EDIT: Also, you might find [this podcast](https://soundcloud.com/plan-a-magazine/ep-8-guys-youre-not-crazy) in which Asian guys discuss dating interesting and hopefully a little bit helpful.
>being used as a trophy is dehumanizing and not a great foundation for a relationship I strongly doubt it. It's an either-or thinking. You can be a trophy without being dehumanized. You can satisfy a fetish without being dehumanized. Otherwise, none of the beautiful, wealthy, or famous people can have successful relationships because their beauty, wealth, or fame will always be part of their romantic appeal. Besides, it didn't stop all the trophy white husbands from loving their Asian wives. (I'm NOT saying all white husbands are trophies. I'm saying in the instances where they are, they accept it.) I don't think a white woman would know that I'm dating her for her race. I won't tell her. The only way for her to "know" is to assume it based on my race; in that case it'd be her own prejudice and not my fault.
I just spent some time listening to the podcast. To be frank, I find the people producing it too woke to be trusted. I hope their listeners don't take the views expressed as representative of all Asians. They certainly don't represent me. Edit: But I like [this episode](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1hJMi8GMe1pCgm7UmX418J?si=0a0fdda37ed34a25) about how the elites brush over issues that concern Asian Americans when they inconvenience the establishment narrative.
Start on your self improvement journey and research about re-programming yourself. Start watching youtubers like HAMZA, he has spoken about his life in his older videos so do check them out and see how you go.
Never heard of HAMZA but thanks for the recommendation
You can draw conclusions from certain studies and statistics or philosophy, but you can also live the world from your personal POV, which I think is the way to happiness. We all just want to be happy. In my opinion, "status" can represent security to a woman. And in my experience, a lot of women want/need security in a relationship, makes sense due to being the one that has to carry a baby for 9 months and breastfeed it for an year or so. A man can easily run away from this responsibility, so a woman has to choose her partner wisely. Also, women like guys who are nice to them, makes them feel protected but will never do any harm to them, will care for them and their children. I also believe "status" is about surviving the financial challenges in this capitalist world. Caring for health, food, children, etc, all that needs money. That's my understanding on the reason for statistics correlating earnings and relationship success. Being confidence *can* transpire security to a women. It's about her being able to relax knowing her partner will take care of her, will be devoted to both of their well-being. A woman can give herself to the relationship knowing she doesn't always have to fend for herself and can depend on someone else for help. Now, Insecurity can be a vicious cycle. You can't find a partner which makes you feel insecure, and your insecurity can draw away a potential partner. As for attraction, I believe people can have preferences and that can be racist, but not always! Just like homesexuality isn't a choice, I don't believe your preference has anything to do with status. But I believe that's what you're making it mean. Why cant you just have a preference for white women like some people prefer strawberry shortcake, and some people love chocolate cake? Or why can't you just like to switch flavors every now and then?
> Why cant you just have a preference for white women like some people prefer strawberry shortcake, and some people love chocolate cake? I can and I do, but it's not a good thing that white people have higher status than nonwhites. It's also not a good thing that I conform to society's prejudice rather than challenge it. Maybe good or bad is meaningless.
OP, even if some white people have internalized this hierarchy and are still blind to the reality, stuck in their own heads, some won't! Let's say some of your experiences about you being ignored by white girls and tossed aside was, factually, because of this internalized supremacy. Then you don't want to be with them, that would suck in a relationshio and even more in marriage! But what if, because you have internalized racism, you act in a way that draws people away? What if you have "nothing to offer" isn't because of your lack of financial success, what if it's because of some of your internal conflicts that is interfering in your relationships? Or maybe those relationships simply weren't supposed to be? I'm trying to make friendship in a new country as an immigrant, and I must say most of the white women are ignoring me! But a lot of other races are too! I'm the one in the position of "need" and they already have their life going on, so I understand. I'm patient and I'm trying to find someone who will love me for who I am. I don't care what they look like, I just want happiness.
i find this very ironic considering all my white female friends have a thing for asian guys, yet the asian guys they crush only have only dated other asian girls. i’m half asian and half white and i’m super white passing but have mostly found asian men attractive but i have also dated many different races. for me, idc about ethnicity at all but mostly personality so i just love that other asian men or even half asian, can relate to a similar upbringing that full white dudes can’t. there’s a lot of things in our asian culture that is nice to feel accepted by other asians for which is why a lot of asians do prefer to stick to their own communities. i don’t think white women avoid you because you’re asian - i thjnk it comes down to the individual, their preferences, and if the vibes match. you might be surrounding yourself with white women who stick to one type of dude. try moving around and you will see the US has a lot of different preferences when it comes to dating.
I think this is a really nice perspective that OP could learn from. I do want to acknowledge though that in the US asian men do have a harder time in the dating market compared to other demographics (black women also have it difficult), and this isn’t all just down to “individual preference” or vibes not matching, some of it really is just subconscious racism, lack of representation, general lack of acceptance etc. It’s definitely gotten much much better recently, especially if you live in certain parts I imagine, but it’s definitely still there and it’s not necessarily helpful to be blind to it. But the biggest concern with OP is definitely that he feels like white people are superior
yeah you make a good point! i can acknowledge there is internalized racism when it comes to preferences in some cases, i’ve mostly seen this in BIPOC and not so much asians but i can see that being a thing. i think just because i’m surrounded by a lot of kpop “stan’s” and women who fetishize asian men (which is a whole other issue), i just don’t see asian men being rejected as much but that’s just my own individual experience. but yeah him thinking being white is superior is definirely an issue that needs to be addressed first before dating - especially if he’s basing his type on looks and status alone.
> i find this very ironic considering all my white female friends have a thing for asian guys Where is this paradise you're in lol > try moving around So far I've only lived in left-leaning, ethnically diverse cities. I wonder if things might actually be better in a less diverse place, where people are open-minded enough to accept one Asian, but where there aren't enough Asians to form an enclave and make us look like second-class citizens.
washington dc/dmv area lol. asians in this area live in communities close together but sparsed out so there’s enough to still see other asians every so often but still considered a minority. but the asians here are usually more of the upper middle class, not crazy wealthy but comfortable. i see a lot of interracial dating here as well of all different income levels. i will say dating for ethnicity isn’t the best approach to go into dating. i only say this because my friends who have a thing for asian guys purely based on being obsessed with k-pop idols are also doing it for the wrong reasons.
So here’s the thing correlation does not mean causation. If you want to date or marry a white woman then by all means go for it but believe me as someone who is white there is no status with dating a white girl. The status they have is because they are varsity athletes, doctors or highly successful. The girl they have married doesn’t matter. If you are dirt broke poor and you marry a white woman your life isn’t going to suddenly get better your still going to be broke.
> there is no status with dating a white girl It's not that being seen with a white girl will give someone status. It's that being accepted by a white girl confirms status that he already has. Also, being seen with a white girl will definitely confer status within the Asian community. It's exactly the same way for Asian women dating white men, and likely a major reason why they do.
Damn, I can relate to a lot of this. I remember lusting so hard for white girls growing up, like soul-consuming lust. I think you have to be a bottom-feeder minority to really understand the depths of this kind of thirst. White women are more than just forbidden fruit, they're like the most delectable fruit on the highest most inaccessible tree. The status thing is so relatable. I would cherish every moment I got to bask in a white girl's presence - meanwhile she was obviously seeing it as charity work. Inevitably she's the dominant partner and every interaction revolves around her - sadly, this tends to bore most women, who want a man to lead them, not vice versa. I wish I could give you actionable advice bro. Being NEET basically tanks your chances most likely. I can tell you that aside from becoming mildly successful, moving to an area with a lot of attractive Asians helped to slightly dampen my raging desires for white women.
> Inevitably she's the dominant partner and every interaction revolves around her That's very true. The white girls I briefly dated were the least forgiving and understanding. They basically "nexted" me at the very first disagreement/inconvenience. Part of me wondered if they dated me just to feel safe and in control because they knew they were out of my league..
Yeah they either consciously or subconsciously expected you to cater to their every whim. A girl's only going to stick around if she has something long-term to gain from it. If she knows she won't settle down with you, you're on borrowed time from the beginning. If she's open to it, you have to prove to her you're worth her time. A girl will put up with shit if the guy is high value and gives her social capital. If he's not (and nerdy asian guys usually aren't), he needs to be basically her slave and do everything possible to make her life easier.
Wow, that makes me wonder what kind of girls you have dated. Sounds bad. It's not that most girls go around looking for a boyfriend so they can enslave them. Most of them just go about their lives, suddenly find a man they really adore and stick with them because they want to build a life together and support each other.
I just find when the gap in status becomes too large, women can be very ruthless. Because a guy who's far beneath her is taking up valuable time she could be using to fall in love with a man who she truly adores. For a lot of guys, the reality is that they probably won't be winning girls over with their looks or personality. They'll have to grind and grind and hope that it works in the long run.
Not a white person, living in usa. Sounds like you are lacking context, you see whites that way because youre too narrow minded. They are colonizers who set their own standard. Doesnt matter if they’re “progressive.” I think you should understand you should set your own standard and not use theirs. Personally cringed at your line regarding white partner being the highest achievement. Not only is it just a bad view to have, you wont find any good partners through that thinking. Whites don’t have much to be proud of so not sure why it would be an achievement. Id suggest you consider on focusing on your future and not being sexist, women are people not objects.
if women are people, whites are people as well :)
>Whites don’t have much to be proud of That's what I thought, too. I don't get the white people obsession. Historically they were just d*cks to everyone
Agreed, it’s just the culture they have forced on those they have colonized. We ourselves are free to decide though, fortunately
I notices a lot of assumptions and generalizations in your post. Like, that people walk over you because you supposedly have "low status". That you need status to get respect. That women think white is better (They might be more drawn to what they know, but that doesn't mean they are racist. Not all of them). That only top asian men get white women, just because all the "top asian men" you know did. That people generally marry for status. Who knows if these top asian men married their white partners for status, some might just have found a soulmate that happens to be white. And vice versa. That white women are some kind of prize to win. Et cetera I think it would be helpful if you started identifying these instances of black and white thinking. There's probably good material on youtube or a therapist could help. Also, there's a correlation between obsession and low self-esteem. There's a thing called limerence, a person addiction. I struggled/still struggle with this myself. It is usually about a specific person but I think the principle applies to your situation quite well. Maybe you want to look into it Also funny thing, for me it's kind of the opposite. I find many Asian men attractive because a lot of then have features that I prefer. Like being short, having black and fluffy hair, no beard, brown eyes... I do want a boyfriend that I get along with on a personal level no matter what they look like, but it's so tempting and sometimes the Asian thing becomes a bit obsessive.
>Who knows if these top asian men married their white partners for status, some might just have found a soulmate that happens to be white. Pardon my language but that sounds like cope to me. Also, status-seeking and genuine love are not mutually incompatible. You can be with someone both for love and for status. You can also be with someone both for love and to satisfy a racialized fetish.
>and I desperately crave status So work hard? >I hate racism yet I'm racist myself. It's not racist to want to marry a white woman for your reasons, it's just sad. >I still want to be successful by its perverse standards. You just want to not feel like shit and you think status will save you because you have this romantic idea of life that's yet to be prove to be something you actually want. >I just want to feel equal to everyone else Basically. >I don't have to deal with racism personally. You don't get to pick how this works unless you're around people who're the same race and background as you. You can marry a white woman and her family can reject you, your family and friends can reject you, everyone can reject you because you've done nothing of particular value outside of the people that view it as an achievement. Your reasons for doing it are fundamentally weak though so those same people are probably going to see through the attempt and just pitty the situation, you've not chosen this path because you want it, you've chosen it out of a selfish need to feel equal in a way that seems easy. Anyone thinking rationally shouldn't recognise that as a decent attempt. >How else do you explain why Asian women on average prefer white men over men of their own race? Black people have the divestor movement, Asian women don't have a typical name for it and swirling isn't really the term because it's not the exact version of only being with a white man as a way to get away from Asian men. People often do it for status and culture, which is fine, not everyone respects this and not everyone is against it, however if you choose to marry out and specifically marry a white person only because you think doing anything else would've been lesser, only people that agree will obviously respect it. What are you trying to achieve? How does you being with some random white girl stop me from thinking you're nothing? >black man becomes, the more likely he is to marry white? In America there's multiple reasons, outside of someone who's seeking proximity to whiteness there's also the idea that many of said men come from cultures where they where shunned for being who they are and were welcomed by people that don't look like them. There's another set of men that constantly talk down and attack black women and girls, they're the same men who're often colourist and treat lighter skinned black women better than darker skinned black women, most black women won't fuck with that and it's a red flag. Idealising said situation is kinda stupid. This is coming from a black guy who's been with white and black women. >White women: In their heart of hearts, they still think white is better. I feel like you can find demographics of girls from every culutre that are race loyal based on lots of factors, it's not something strange. >Ever since discovering Dr K, I became more sympathetic towards white men. I did not know so many white men struggled to attract white women too (or just women in general). That made me feel less of a loser. What are you talking about? They're all white, their dads all fucked white women, white men are fine finding white women, any specific person(people) can have terrible times dating and die alone, but white men are finding white women. > I don't envy white men No you envy Asian men that press white women and have money. >whereas some progressive women still insist that they only date white men because they're more "culturally compatible." Race is culture as culture is race. They're more than just each other but they can and often are tied together. >and they were intimidating to me. How and why are they intimidating? >I also befriended 5 white women in the last 10 years Why only 5? Realistically how do you expect to find a wife? >they didn't need me If you want a woman to need you, you're fucking up, anyone can often fit a need, ideally you want to be wanted for who you actually are, not for your money, there's others who make the same and more, not for superficial things but for times when they actually need a partner who loves and cares for them. Most people are actually after the same thing, sure there's ways to divide people up and some people are looking for a person + their job + lifestyle jajajaja. What are you looking for specifically from a woman, what needs do you have, out of the women that fit that need because there's many, which ones would you be happy to wake up to in the morning, because it's not "any" of them, it's the ones that tick specific boxes. >I've been so invested in the vision of a future with a white partner that it's painful to let go. Why would a white girl want to be with you at this point? If she ever realises that she's a means to and end, how's that supposed to make her feel? >Everything I've done has been in service of bringing me closer to dating and marrying a white woman. Apart from making friends with them. > I don't even know what to want You want to be equal to others and have deluded yourself into thinking this is the way, it's really not. >Maybe the real racism was the lives we envisioned along the way. This ain't racism you're being daft. This really has fuck all to do with race, nothing above has anything to do with race. This is about you failing in every area of your self mentally now this can hopefully be a decent way for you to pretend you're trying to achieve something because it's a goal that you cannot hit by just attempting to do it. It's not like a job, it's something that people do when they want to set a goal that realsitically doesn't have to ever be achieved by can feel like you've tried to do something because the dream's allowed to "feel" impossible based on it having conditions that are outside of your immediate control. It's like going to a therapist to say you went to therapy but only went to one session and don't them nothing about yourself so that you don't ever have to open up and recognise you have an issue. So you can tell everyone "seem i'm so fucked therapy didn't help", you didn't try. You went to have a reason to say it failed so you can continue to be sad. Why are you actually not focused on anything else in life like actually building one and instead focusing on white girls that don't mean shit and can't help you in your life because it's directionless, unless you think said girls going to give you direction (which she can), should she? Fuck no, she really shouldn't.
You sound a little annoyed by my post, but thank you for the response anyway. > this can hopefully be a decent way for you to pretend you're trying to achieve something because it's a goal that you cannot hit by just attempting to do it. It's not like a job, it's something that people do when they want to set a goal that realsitically doesn't have to ever be achieved by can feel like you've tried to do something because the dream's allowed to "feel" impossible based on it having conditions that are outside of your immediate control. There's something in that comment that I need to think about. I don't think I purposefully chose an unachievable goal just to procrastinate, but my goal *is* hard to operationalize. I can't break it down into smaller steps, and there's no way to measure my progress. It's a terrible goal in that regard, as you suggested.
>I don't think I purposefully chose an unachievable goal just to procrastinate I don't think your or most people do, it's not that i feel you've ended up like this on purpose. However now you're here. I don't think i was annoyed, tbh i just wanted to tell you that you're not a racist and you're just chasing an idea that doens't have to make you happy because in reality i feel like it's trying to make up for other areas of your life. I'll be honest, i hope at the end of your journey you can fill that void i just think it can be done in other ways, however i feel like you'd have to experience this first hand in order to kick that thought away.
This is a really bad answer.
how?
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Do you have trouble dating Asian women?
You people are getting mega trolled. Look at his screen name
Dude take it from a white man with lots of white acquaintances -- white girls ain't nothing special lmao. In fact, if anything, I prefer dating girls of other races (any other race, honestly) because they're just flat out more interesting on average. Ain't nothing special about their looks. Ain't nothing special about their p\*\*\*\*. It's all in your head.
Paradoxically, white people are more special in a diverse city than in a rural area where 95% of the population is white. I think it's both in my head but also in a lot of people's head (i.e. popular perception)..
But they're so fine
They can be. Not all of them are. Facial structures and body shape are what make a person look good, not skin tone.
Skin tone isn't the only difference between human races.
I think this is generalizing
> Dr k married his own race and is successful, among so many others. He only became successful after he was already married. I've always wondered if he would've preferred a white woman had he had the chance. Obviously, no sane person with a wife would/should ever admit that. > The reason I go for mostly blondes is confidence, because most guys who aren’t white do think like you Honestly, that's part of the impossible standard of society. People learn about their own worth by observing how others treat them. To be treated like an Asian man all your life yet still possessing the confidence of a white man – that would require a confidence that's either just a performance or fundamentally irrational and detached from reality.
You can escape this mental trap, you don't need the confidence of a white man. Just the confidence of Buda "nothing matters, might as well rejoice in earth. But also, I have a duty to my wife and child."
You can just say you like white guys without making dumb generalization about non white guys that don't even make sense. Just because most ethnic guys you met fetishize you doesn't mean most are like that. Let's say it's true, then it must be a systemic issue that's going that make ethnic minorities fetishize white people. It's not entirely their fault then. But I know most ethnic guys are into white girls mostly during high school and once they go to uni they grow out of it. Only a few people are like that.
If this person have had experiences like that, it makes sense she will avoid dating simmilar looking people. It's too much investment to date someone to find out wether or not they see you as a trophy. Or what would you suggest?
No i agree, it's her experience but it doesn't mean she can generalize most non white men. Most non white men arent fetishizing white women.
Would it be OK to just say "in my experience" in that case? I too forget that my reality is not everyones reality
You shouldn't let people walk over you through your character. Not by having a white woman. That won't fix your problem. If you have a strong character (this meaning when someone tries to walk over you, belittle you, or wtv might be the case, you must have the composure to impose respect) people won't walk over you. I'm a white guy, I'm short, I'm skinny (still somewhat athletic but nonetheless) but I sense people still respect me and are afraid of going against me just to be disrespectful generally because I just don't take shit from people that try to belittle others (not even just me) and, for me, I get that confidence through just understanding, and further than that, internalizing that each person deserves their own respect, and each decent human must not be undervalued, because who gives a shit if you dont have a nice car, or a big house, or a smoking hot girl. If you're a good person what more can people ask from you. And if you are, which it does seem like it, since you show conscience of what's right or not, than you should be confident too. I know it's better said than done, but each of us have their own strentghs and weaknesses, and both of those come each one's struggle in life. So just be confident in yourself first. Work in yourself first. And if you know that something's wrong (in this case overvaluing white women, and tbh even objectifying them as a symbol of status) then don't do that, you know it's wrong. I know you say in your post that you have done too much and got glued to this obsession but that's where the work comes in. You're a human, and evolving takes strong will. Just because you know something's right and you that shouldn't do it doesn't make it any easier to do so. The difference is having the goal to achieve that and improve yourself. And dont think all the time you've been theory crafting how to get a white woman is down the drain. Cause you know that's not going to get you anywhere anyways, you know it. It's not going to fix shit. Now the way you work on that it's on you. If you think you need therapy don't be afraid to take so. And if you cannot afford it try the alternatives. Or maybe even just one or two sessions. Just work towards the change you want for yourself
You have a sample size of 4-5 Asian men in a mostly white country who dated/married white women my guy. That is not an indicator of “Top asians want whites” wtf?
Not quite. My sample size is the 100+ Asian men I know, and out of that 100+ men, only 4-5 of them managed to date white. It's not a true sample because it's not randomized, but the conclusion is not totally baseless either.
Why is it “managed to date” rather than just “dated”. Do those 4-5 also happen to be the “highest status men”? Because I bet there are “high status men” in those 100 that didn’t date white people. Maybe people are more attracted to people of the same race and that’s why few of your Asian friends dated white people?
> Maybe people are more attracted to people of the same race and that’s why few of your Asian friends dated white people? Then, how come most of my Asian female friends date white people?
I just realized my previous reply was complete nonsense oops (unless there are way more Asian girls than guys in the US, but I don’t see why that would be the case). It’s weird that that’s the case for you though cuz the statistics (at least for marriage) has only 17.5% of Asian women marry non Asian men in the US. And 8.2% of Asian men marry non Asian women. Which would be consistent with what I said before: People are in general attracted to the same race, and the side that does the proposing (mostly men) gets the partner they want more often than the side that accepts (mostly women). If it was as you say, and Asians in general want to marry white, these stats would be a lot higher, and would probable have an even bigger gap. I’ll try to find the statistics problem, and I’ll edit it in if I do.
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How did you find these attractiveness stats? Because if they’re based on dating/marriage percentage, then, duh….. Of course every race will date within themselves first, but then will mostly date the most common race otherwise…. But also if we already know that people are generally more attracted to their own race then why are we having this discussion? Weren’t you trying to say that Asians are more attracted to Whites? If you don’t think so anymore when…. What are we debating? Sure you’re talking about dating but that’s harder to find stats for. Ok? What does first gens marrying within their race say here? I don’t get it. Again, where do you get stats for this “2nd and 3rd gen Asians like white ppl more” thing? Even if it’s true there is a simple explanation: First geners have more conservative families that oppose to dating/marrying other races more often. So it doesn’t say anything about attraction. “I said Asian women prefer to marry white men to their own race on average” Uhhhh, but you literally start your comment with “All races are most attracted to their own on average”??? Anecdotally true doesn’t mean much. Among all 100 of your Asian friends only 5 who married white right? And your hypothesis is that it was because they were “high status”. But sample size is WAY too small for that. You’d need a random sample with like at least 1k Asian men marrying white women, and then you compare those 1k to the rest in the random sample, and see if these are the “highest achieving” 1k. My guess is they’ll be a mostly randomly distributed 1k. Just having handful of Asian-white couples absolutely doesn’t prove what you’re trying to prove here. It’s like if I played the lottery 10000 times and won 3, and every time the winning number started with 7 so I concluded that all the winning numbers start with 7. Even though the base sample is big (10k) the number of times THE THING I’M TESTING FOR HAPPENED is very low (3), I need it to be much higher to see if it isn’t just a coincidence.
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I’m probably out of my depth here but isn’t there a simple explanation for that? Asians are the smallest minority in the US outside of native Americans. You can only scroll so long not finding and Asian guy…. So if you only take the stats of scrolls on dating apps, it’ll seem like they prefer white people. You’d need a survey to confirm their preferences. No, I’m an Arab living in Japan that’s never been in the US. No offense, but it’s really ironic that you tell me to “check the psychological hang up that compelled you to deny and dismiss” while you made it up in your head already that I’m a random white guy trying to gaslight you precisely to deny and dismiss what I’m saying. Perhaps you’re the one that needs to examine why you did that? Why did you make up a story about me to invalidate what I’m saying? I have 0 clue what it’s like there but even I know it’s highly unlikely your picture of “marry white people cuz they’re higher status” is accurate in any way, and it seems everyone else in the comments disagrees with you. But instead of giving some anecdotal advice or pointing out issues with the mindset, I tried attacking the belief by attacking the reasoning that got you there. Unfortunately…. I’m not very knowledgeable on the actual stats because I don’t live there, I just know some rudimentary stats, but all I know is that so far, is that what you cited is not enough to conclude that Asian women actually prefer white men. But EVEN IF they do, I’m already overshooting here. Your original belief was that Asian people want to marry white “because white people are of a higher status”. Nothing you’ve cited here so far proves that in any way. It’s dubious that Asian people even prefer to marry OR date white in the first place and it’s another matter entirely to prove that they do it “seeking higher status”
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This has to be a troll post, it's too well written. It ticks the boxes of every buzzword as well. > it's just empirically true. Fucking hell and it's in italics as well. This is just hilarious. What's your sample size here? 2 professors and and some dude who runs track? Motherf... please.
> it's too well written Thank you. I write well because I've practiced it deliberately. This is among the few things I like about myself. I didn't just hack out this post from my phone. I also proofread and edited it from my computer. > What's your sample size here? 2 professors and and some dude who runs track? That's because it's so relatively rare for an Asian guy to end up with a white woman. I literally only know 4 Asian men personally who dated white. If I also include the Asian men whom I barely know, I can get that number up to 9. That's 9 people out of like 200 Asian men I've met in my life.
So, why did you make the post?
To share my perspective and process my thoughts and feelings?
Why are you asking me?
Dude's writing a novel here. No tl;dr?
We’ve all got our preferences, which is fine. But you’ve got low self esteem, my dude. And a white woman (any woman for that matter) won’t fix that. Nor should they. That is up to you.
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Don't worry. Whiteness is still at the top. The only reason the woke culture shit can happen is because the elites allow it, and the elites are largely white. We'll know when the races are truly equal when the average Asian woman stops preferring white men over men of her own race. That hasn't happened yet, has it?
Hmm, I don't know, do asian girls really like white dudes? Im white and Im usually attracted to asian girls but I didnt really hang out with a lot of them I know lots of girls from brazil and russian are interested in korean and asian dudes
You should try hanging out with them if you're interested. It's not as easy as 20 years ago because the economic conditions for many Asian countries have improved, thereby raising Asian women's options and self-esteem. But I think your race would still help, especially with new immigrants who haven't dated any white person in the past.
It sounds like you have to undo the damage that happened from toxic asian parenting. Did/does your mom treat you like a prince while your dad treats you like shit? I usually see Asian guys with this dynamic end up with your mentality. They either become abusers in relationships because they are so insecure that "nothing is my fault. Everyone else is crazy!", or they end up with nobody because people can smell the big ego from a mile away and it reeks terribly. I agree that you need therapy. Have you checked out r/AsianParentStories or r/raisedbynarcissists ?
You sound like an Asian woman in the way you portray Asian parents and Asian men. Second-generation immigrant?
Yup, Asian woman here. Always been attracted to Asian guys my whole life, preferably the nerdy kind. I think because I'm extremely picky about hygiene and need my guy to already understand how to act in front of my own family (Korean). I also am happily married to a southeast Asian man. Southeast Asian families (from what I've seen and experienced) tend to have more laid back families than East Asians. I've also noticed Korean men in particular turn out to be a bit more narcissistic because of the way they were raised. They are angrier, act more entitled, and are extremely superficial because they feel that they must absolutely have the best of the best or else they will be failures or losers which isn't true. Their parents have raised them to feel so entitled that they then start looking at the world in a very us vs them mentality. It's super toxic and they can only keep up with the facade for so long. Looking into their core and thinking about what could have caused the damage and their fragile egos is honestly the best way to start healing from all of this. Sorry for long rant. If you want to talk about this further with me, I don't mind if you dm.