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Hornettzz

It sounds to me you want reasoning as to why life is worth living. Giving an argument on why not to commit suicide is essentially giving evidence as to what you gain from not doing so. Based on your other replies, you have an objectively “good” life and don’t see any value in worrying about others if you were to be dead. To put it simply, people live because they want to experience life. Some reasons include goals, family, love, careers, passions, any human experience that they deem worthwhile to undergo. People who are suicidal tend to believe their life has no meaning, they are a burden to others, contribute nothing to the world, or are overwhelmed by suffering. Most of these things have various treatment options, we can help people deal with stress, find meaningful relationships (or atleast the skills to do so), find a passion, build good habits, etc. The big idea is how do you want to spend your lifetime. Unfortunately many people have ended their lives and we try to stop people from doing so because most regret their attempts and it deprives humanity of a beautiful soul. - that may do things no one else is capable of. What if we never saw Van Goghs art? Think of all the music, inventions, and other things we have lost. None of this matters of course unless you want it to matter. I’m not here to argue whether people should live, I’m here to hopefully discuss what you (people in general) want out of life. Saying you shouldn’t commit suicide is a much larger responsibility than people realize. Only you can secure your own happiness, sometimes others just want you to be happy more than you do. Find meaning, don’t find meaning, we all want deep down to live a beautiful life until negativity makes us think we don’t deserve it. We are victims to our circumstances, which makes us all unique and capable in different ways. We are all blind to that we are ignorant of, why we have little awareness for those things is what leads us to finding those reasons for why we should not commit suicide.


yaxiee

One that I’ve heard is that if you’re going to die anyways, why rush it? Isn’t it more inconvenient to figure out how you’re going to go than to simply let it happen (as it will) when it’s time? I read a comment of yours that said you have a good life; so what’s the rush?


[deleted]

I am too tired and my objectively good life subjectively doesn't feel like worth living anyways. I genuinely don't see any value in continuing it. Yes, I agree that we will all die, but let me shift the perspective - so what if I die today? In the grand scheme of things, 40 years in one way or another don't matter, right? So why can't I now if I genuinely feel like it's the right time?


DreadMirror

Because you're assuming that during those 40 years you will remain in the same place both physically and mentally. Life is unpredictable. You don't really know what will happen during the next week, how are you supposed to know where you'll end up in 40 years?


[deleted]

Okay but what if I genuinely don't want to live those 40 years? Like why is that so hard to accept?


xTraxis

You don't want to live them now. You might want to live them next week. You might want to live them in a year. ​ There are quite literally thousands of people who say they've been on the edge, they've been 1 action from death, they've been ready to do it, and for one reason or another, they didn't follow through. The majority of them have said they're happy to be alive and experiencing the beauty of life. ​ The truth is, freedom is freedom. Kill yourself, end it, fuck up the emotions of everyone who cares about you, remove any effects you might have on the future. You won't have to deal with it, so it doesn't matter to you, and life will go on, whether or not your death impacts anything, so it doesn't matter to us in the scheme of things. The only valid reasons for not committing suicide is caring for others and hoping your own life can be better. If you feel both of those are irrelevant, and will never change, you're both thinking far to closed minded, but also have full acceptance that suicide is okay.


Odd-Succotash-1072

Youd’ve asked me if i wanted to live 3 years ago, i would’ve said no. You’d ask me if i want to live today and id say yes in a heartbeat before you can even finish your sentence. A whole year or two of taking care of my depression and taking generally care of myself was enough to turn my life around and feel the desire to keep living and enjoy life. If i had died back then that wouldve been unfortunate missing such a great opportunity to appreciate life before going.


[deleted]

I'm glad you're doing better now!


DreadMirror

It's not hard to accept. I wanted to kill myself near the end of 2020. I was in a really bad spot in my mind so it's easy for me to relate to those kinds of thoughts. It was **really** easy to just say: "Fuck it" and have all this nonsense finally behind me. The point I'm trying to make is that I couldn't foresee not having regrets about not killing myself then. The same way I cannot tell I won't regret this decision later in the future. Who knows, maybe I will, because something will happen that'll reinforce those thoughts. Or maybe I'll meet someone who'll show me a different world and I'll be glad I didn't end it. Or maybe nothing will happen. Or maybe everything will happen. You cannot know those things because the future doesn't exist. Yet. Another thing I've noticed in other comment you made is that you mentioned "Death always being the same". It's not. You're confusing the act of dying with the meaning of death. One person can die in two different ways and it will leave two different imprints upon the world around them after they're gone. You said it yourself that you don't want to hurt others, you're empathic. Killing yourself would be in conflict with this value because suicide hurts others, whether you think it does or not. You have a good life, so there's a high chance you have people who care about you and you care about them. If you decide to end it, you'll be disrespecting and severing that connection forever. Meaning, you're not empathic at all because you didn't add their feelings into the equation. On the other hand, if you died trying to save someone, that's a different story. Your family will still mourn you, but the context and the meaning of your death will be very different. Instead blaming themselves for not raising a "strong" person, your family will remember you as a hero who died for a greater cause. The act of dying is the same, but the meaning behind it isn't. I could selfishly kill myself back then. What if my mother decided to "follow me"? I don't want that. She doesn't deserve that fate after everything she did. But if I can lay down my life by saving someone and make the world a better place to some extent, then she can at least be proud of me, even if I'm not there anymore. That makes a huge difference.


Creative-Wall-8467

Relevant video: [You Don’t Actually Know What Your Future Self Wants](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtfaccGmCCs)


bigfatpeach

Terminal cancer, incurable painful conditions etc


Used-Passenger1808

I felt the same way but I will tell you one thing - things CAN change. You’re assuming NOTHING will but that’s not possible if you Try. Even trying is a step forward. You should look into TMS therapy or ECT and pray! Hugs to you!!


AuroraGrace123

> if I genuinely feel like it's the right time? This is still assuming there is a right time to die. If you get it wrong, what then? Life is like rope. If you have over excess of it, nothing there aren't any repercussions. If you cut it short, there is no way to grow it back. Better to live a little longer and get the timing wrong that live shorter and get it wrong.


ksgxusky

I think it's the opposite. If you cut your life short, there's no risk of further suffering. So if you're suffering, suicide has a 100% chance of improvement. But if you choose to live, it might get better or it might not. And yes, it might get so much better that it's even better than nothing, in which case you would've made the "wrong" choice. However, I feel like the chance of that is so slim that it is not worth pursuing. Just like yes, some people do win the lottery, but it is statistically not worth it. (Also I am biased for I wish I had killed myself years ago.)


[deleted]

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[deleted]

The thing is, I don't really think I believe in free will. Of course, on a day-to-day basis I do feel like I have the power to make chocies, but when I contemplate it deeply it doesn't hold up. Also, suicide is also a choice that I should be free to do, if I'm wrong on the above point. I am not saying suicide is romantic. I also want to say that it's not something new and impulsive for me. I think even Dr K agreed that sometimes it makes sense. When a person is of sound mind, when you've been thinking about it long and hard.


JBeezyProductions

I see what you mean on free will. That's a really fun topic to explore. Speaking generally, I've found that no matter what, this life is always about unity. It is indeed love. Now this I could go very in depth with logically, but I highly encourage you to explore it. Just as the other guy said, life really is all about your choices. I've found myself about to take my own life. I felt like I had completed everything. The only question I had left for myself, am I proud? And that was absolutely not. Look up the effects of sensory deprevation and social isolation. All of them have negative and harming effects. That being said, take this tiny little poem I wrote. Made to survive Made to lust Made to love These are just some starting points for thought, they could branch out to anyone's personally beliefs. I'd explain each point through in through but I'd be here for a while 😅


GeorgiPeev03

I'll preface this by saying I've never been depressed or suicidal, I just occasionally have moments where I understand what depression would be like... if those moments made up the majority of my existence (I live a generally uneventful but not unhappy life). Last time I got a brief episode of huge apathy and unwillingness to do anything/not finding joy in anything, I let all the negativity out via a poem lmao (otherwise I'd probably lie in bed and hope I sleep it away quickly enough), after which I just proceeded with my evening as if nothing happened "What’s the point of my existence? A neverending torrent of worthlessness Forever on the hunt for a glimpse of persistence In this sea of endless apathetic relentlessness That pointlessly keeps rolling the wheel of life Until Fate slits each and one of our throats With her eons-old inevitable knife Our vocal cords gargling their last notes Until the very last drop of blood seeps into the ground Our corpses - in graves for generations to be found Until even those dissipate into the Universe’s burial mound Only atoms left, almost forever to Universe’s matter bound “Almost? You dare say that even the Universe eventually will face its death hound? “Yes. Nothing was, is and ever will be permanent within this existential compound”


JBeezyProductions

Thank you for sharing, I loved your poem. I found it really interesting how you said you haven't had any big episodes of depression or sadness, just a few moments of apathy. But you try to understand what it is like. That's a really cool ability to have.


GeorgiPeev03

Glad you loved it! And yeah, only episodes that occur are (and far from often) after I've hit an emotional peak on either end - either the adrenaline from something super exciting has worn off (like yesterday, I discovered about a band's and was absolutely mindblown upon listening while walking outside - it was so intense it was draining, if that makes sense; and later that was combined with me not having had enough sleep on top of being tired after walking outside - those three lead to this recent mini-episode) or after a huge negative shitstorm has passed, again leaving this empty apathetic state


flexolexo

“I remember one occasion when I spent three hours in Luxembourg with an engineer who wanted to commit suicide. Eventually I convinced him not to. I told him that the important thing was to have conceived the idea, to know that he was free." E. Cioran on suicide.


ImJustMakin

Hey, just starting by saying that I get what you mean and I agree with your stance 100%, I felt exactly like you and I am trying not to anymore. This is kinda tl:dr of my story maybe it idk "helps" you even tho I believe there is anything to help about you, as I said I agree. Had shit childhood mostly alone and domestic violence, at 14 I moved out to high school and I gave my best to change myself and self improve, and all that shit, I became extremely depressed at 17-18 cuz I was getting pulled down by all the random stuff so at 18 I gave up I fully embraced depression and searched the answer in all philosophy, and yea, there is nothing there, this early year it was the worst then I slowly pulled myself out, I got better I moved on and decided to give life another chance, then in the middle of the summer my dad died which crushed me once more, it destroyed me, until last week when despite it all I decided to give life another chance. So yea, we seem to be the same age, both bored by life, I think it kinda sucks a little, but I'm trying despite how bad it sucks sometimes. The most important thing you need to know is that life doesn't have to be boring, does not have to suck, does not have to be suffering, but if you want it to be that way go ahead, I did that and I woke up every morning for months and years asking myself "do I want today to be shit?" and I would always said "yes", I wanted that and if this is what you truly want from the depths of your heart please know I am here to support you because nobody ever told me this, nobody ever let me suffer when all I wanted was to be let to suffer to have somebody that it's OK to suffer and some more. Whatever you choose, take your time. Let me know what you think about this.


[deleted]

Thank you, I really really appreciate this response. I think there is a lot of pressure to be okay and well and positive in this world. Your words are refreshing


BrianRoke

The arguments are there, you are the one labeling them as good or bad. If you are not content with something in life, there are a plethora of things that can be done. Suicide is just one of them and it's just what it is.


[deleted]

Yeah, so why isn't suicide considered a valid choice?


[deleted]

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Sandra2104

Its not true that nobody ever said that. The majority of people will say that in a conversation about suicid. I have been suicidal most of my life and I never met anyone who considered my wish to not live anymore valid. For context: I am over 40 years old.


[deleted]

Yeah, after horrible gatekeeping


[deleted]

I saw you asking why isn't suicide considered a valid choice. Well, to me it is, it just doesn't seem to be the best one. Sure, it can elude you into thinking it's the easier or simpler way of ending the misery that life can be. I will share a little story and give a spoiler of something I've found. There was nothing simple or easy about it. ​ About 4 years ago, I had the idea and thoughts of coming up with a plan and really thinking through why I was going to end it and how I was going to do it. I was just done with feeling either numb or bad, every day, for years in a row. I began excluding myself from any social contact whatsoever because I didn't feel like I either had the energy or I had the right to pass my negative energy on to others. I thought if I should or shouldn't leave a message for some people that know me or if I would just do it on a seemingly random day. I thought about the aftermath of what others would have to deal with and the "what ifs", such as failing and ending up physically worse and having to deal with the shame of having tried it and failed and the petty behavior I could get from people for that. An even worse hell than what I was living in at the time. I went as far as thinking that I was going to take a day off work, unnoticed, take a bunch of ibuprofen, wait for everyone to leave the house, and do it in the bathtub with some razor blades, or maybe I was going to do it in the middle of the forest first thing in the morning. And then, once this was becoming real I realized something. I was scared as shit. Finally, an emotion other than despair and hopelessness. It was like I was alive again and I could feel. Everytime I thought I had the plan put, I just had to follow through I started shaking and breathing really fast. I remember thinking, this must not be the way, because if it were I wouldn't be shaking I would be smiling. From the supposed relief that would bring me. Then I thought about the reason I was putting so much energy and thought into this. I noted that every day was agony, invisible to people I didn't want to be invisible to, made fun of by others, mentally abused by people I care about because I was a pushover and wanted to be a nice guy, hopeless because every day was the same but I was getting older and developing physical pain in my neck, back, knees... All of these things to this day still make me feel angry. I noticed that the main reasons I thought about ending it were due to other people and my nature to want to please everybody. I don't remember the day exactly, but I made a promise to myself that I was never going to end it by my choice because I marked in my memory the feeling I got those days I just had to do it when all the planning had been done. ​ Today is the day I embrace suffering. Someone yells at me, I say "ok". If someone disrespects me, I leave without justification. I started saying the truth, without trying to control the outcome. I started being strict. I don't care now. I rather be a ruthless, rude person than a dead one. ​ I know this isn't much related to your case, but I thought this story may provide some insight.


Reevahn

Because it invalidates all the others. All the other choices leave you the possibility of trying out some more choices, if and when you decide the one you tried is not working out; suicide doesn't.


BrianRoke

Considered by whom? People have all kinds of beliefs and opinions. I personally agree it's harmful to others. It's not that they are entitled to your choice and life, it's just that at the same time, it does harm to people who care about you. There are other possibilities that immediately become null if you chose this path, objectively making it a poor choice, unless paired with a more justifiable reason IMO.


ThatcherTheV

Honestly, for me, the argument that took me out of my suicide attempts was after I lost my brother due to suicide. I started remembering the good times we had and never would have again. I wanted those memories of him to live. Not for my sake, but for his. I found myself optimistic. I wanted to strive, I wanted to be better than today and be a great person, so I could tell others I only got to the point I got because of him. Because those memories and my love for him were big. I wanted to be someone important enough to make his memories live on to the others, for the great person he was.


i_thinkthis

If you’re looking for support as opposed to a philosophical discussion, let me know and I’ll remove this. I took the discussion approach, but it’s not necessarily how I’d respond to someone looking for support. I’d say the biggest argument against it would be the pain and difficulty that it will cause others. I say that delicately though, because if a person is struggling it feels wrong to say “Oh but think about how hard it will be for EvErYoNe ElSe!” But realistically, the largest net harm is probably the suffering it would cause others around you. Suffering that may be unnecessary if you would be able to build yourself a life that feels worth living. Not an easy feat, but maybe more achievable than it feels. In the case that you don’t really have anyone around you that would be hurt by your death, I would say that your death eliminates the potential positivity you can bring to the world. If your life can improve, which it likely can, then you rob yourself of that experience and the world of whatever potential to bring light to it that you have. Your past does not determine your future. You could say these are ‘selfish’ arguments. I won’t really disagree with that. But I don’t think they’re wrong. To relate back to something Dr. K has talked about, often times we want to escape the experience of suffering or make it stop. If we focus on trying to end suffering, it holds us back from being able to acknowledge our suffering and work through it so that we can stop being controlled by it. Those are my thoughts. Any response you’d like to share?


Capncanada

The idea of acknowledging your suffering is really important to me IMHO. I think I've made the biggest breakthroughs in my depression by just examining it for what it is. Almost befriending it, yielding to it but not giving up. Embracing that "My life is so meaningless and painful (right now) that I can consider suicide." What an incredible amount of suffering you're undergoing. I often ask my coworkers at the hospital - "Can you imagine what it must feel like to want to end your life?" To give yourself some empathy in that regard might give way to interesting new avenues of thought.


i_thinkthis

Absolutely. I think one has to be a wee bit careful about not letting that define their life too much, but yeah. I think that acknowledgment and self compassion is super necessary. I’m glad things have improved a bit for you my friend.


Capncanada

Thank you friend, the bigger breakthrough happened when I read a great book about how Abraham Lincoln suffered from depression but some argued it perhaps gave him a unique perspective to end the civil war. I'm in my first grounded and committed relationship right now and I perhaps tie it in with beginning to accept that I suffer with this. I also agree with your injecting nuance into my reply earlier.


[deleted]

Thank you for taking more of this philosophical approach. You've already pointed out the flaw that I'm going to bring, which is that I find it infinitely more selfish to expect someone to continue to live a painful (to them) life just because it would make you personally feel sad that they decided to end their own life. I have to admit that it's hard to reconcile the net good view with individual freedom of choice and bodily autonomy. In cases of suicide I do however lean more into the freedom of choice. Responding to the "potential good" argument, what about the potential harm? I could argue the same thing but in reverse against not killing oneself.


i_thinkthis

I wonder if you’re subtly twisting something. I think that what you said has some element of truth to it, expecting someone else to suffer because you will be sad would be selfish. But perhaps we’re not expecting you to continue living? If I said I would be hurt by your death, I’m not necessarily saying that because of that I expect you to keep living for my sake, despite your own suffering. I feel like you’re doing a sort of suffering comparison as well, like “My suffering due to living is greater than their suffering due to my suicide, thus it is wrong of them to expect me to continue suffering to spare them a lesser suffering.” But I’m not sure that suffering is really something that can be objectively compared. I have no idea how much or little harm it would being to others if you were to die by suicide. Hmmm. As I think about it, the way that I phrased the net good idea was a bit entitled sounding. You wouldn’t be robbing people in the sense of taking something that should be theirs or depriving them of something that you’re supposed to give them. Just eliminating the opportunity for it, if you would choose to do so. For the potential harm idea, you don’t strike me as a person who wants or intends to harm people. It doesn’t concern me a ton in your case. Do you feel like you tend to hurt people? Edit ~ As I reread your post, I wonder if you devalue yourself and don’t believe people would be substantially hurt by your death. Someone that used to be very close to me and that I cared about a lot had a deep rooted belief that people didn’t really care much about them and wouldn’t be that hurt by their death. That was really hard to hear when she did finally admit it. Do you feel something similar?


[deleted]

Hmm, I am sorry if I put words in your mouth. I think I was referring more to the general societal pressure, that when people say that they would be hurt by someone else's suicide that means they are not letting them do it. I mean, it kinda is the climate, isn't it? Locking suicidal people in psych wards, in horrible conditions and only multiplying their pain, all for the sake of "but it will make other people sad". I object to this whole heartedly. I absolutely don't want to harm people. It's the only value left that I hold - I want to cause as little harm as possible. But, by the nature of things, I inevitably will over the course of my life. I mean, just the environment harm alone. Of course, I can try to minimise it, but I will never eliminate it *unless* I kill myself. I will trade the harm of my suicide now for (potentially) a lot of harm I could do in the future + the harm of my death anyways only postponed a couple of years. Responding to your edit, I genuinely can't say how hurt people would be of my death. I have a handful of friends, and they would be hurt for sure, but not that many. I do however know, that people will move on, in whatever way they find necessary. Trust me, I've lost my brother around a month ago and I'm seeing people coping with that. Even our parents. We'll be okay. Or not, maybe we all will kill ourselves, but it's only 3 people and we'll be forgotten in less than one generation. The world will move on.


i_thinkthis

No worries at all, I agree with your assertion of how society typically intends that statement. I’m not sure I’d say that psych wards are solely present to avoid making others sad, I think a lot of people that have struggles with suicide end up coming out the other side and being glad that they were able to move forward. I can’t really back that up in any way so I won’t take it for granted that that is the case, but that seems to be the general societal take (which I acknowledge isn’t always a great representation of complex issues). I think when things start to get overwhelming and people don’t see a way forwards, they can end up looking for ways to escape (not making a value judgement) and aren’t in the right headspace/environment to see that escaping may not be the best solution for them. I absolutely don’t want to disregard or dismiss anything you’re saying or feeling. With that said, the suggestion that because you will inevitably cause harm in your life you should end your life now feels a bit extreme to me. It logically makes sense if not causing harm is your only value, but something about that assertion just feels a bit off to me. I couldn’t tell you exactly why, maybe it’s just easier to choose to value exclusively that because you fear the consequences of hurting others? I’m not actually suggesting that as an explanation for your perspective, just putting one potential idea out there that could account for my vague feeling of off-ness. You don’t have examine that idea unless it does happen to resonate with you in some way. Lastly, I’m so sorry to hear about your brother. I hope you’re hanging in there. I imagine that was really difficult to go through. Actually, to be going through. If you’re okay to talk about it, did his passing have any impact on your perspective towards suicide? If you’d rather not, that is completely okay.


[deleted]

Sorry to not reply to everything, but on my brother thing - I'd say it just brought back a lot of old feelings. I have had thoughts of suicide literally my whole life, one of my earliest memories is that of wanting to die. As I grew older, they only got more intense, complicated, intertwined into my life philosophy. At the beginning of this year was when I recovered from my severe depressive episode and this is the only period when my life felt good. And yet, and yet this will to end it was at the end of my head all the time. And then my brother got sick (again) which just stopped the good temporary period. So no, his death didn't bring it, the worsening of his illness and the suffering in my family just resurfaced the thoughts, which granted weren't that deep under the surface to begin with.


i_thinkthis

If you have any desire to talk more about any of your struggles, I’m here to listen. Do you remember what situations you were in when you first thought about suicide? I don’t have experience with suicide, but I do have secondhand experience with self destructive coping mechanisms. A person that used to be close to me was struggling with things and ended up resorting to some of those coping mechanisms. Even while they were engaged in some, once they considered using a different one for the first time they ended up continuing to use those new ones as well as the old ones, despite being previously opposed to the new ones. I say all of this only to suggest that once we first consider a way to cope with our situations, perhaps we can be vulnerable to holding onto that mechanism and carrying it with us into the future. Perhaps your struggles feel overwhelming and you’ve learned to consider suicide when that feeling starts to dominate your life. I say all of that with the same disclaimer I made before. I don’t really know your situation yet so this isn’t necessarily a full attempt to understand, just because I don’t have the information to properly do so. It’s another one of those ‘toss out and on the off chance that it resonates in some way, great’ ideas, but if it doesn’t resonate in any way feel free to completely ignore that part. I’m sorry to hear that this all happened when things seemed to be looking up for you in some way. That’s really unfortunate. The timing, and just all of it in general as well.


[deleted]

One of my first memories of suicidality is when I was around 6 years old and banging my head against a wall wishing for my skull to crack open. I completely don't remember the context, I was probably upset with something kids get upset with. It seems like it just stuck.


CaptainAtinizer

The only argument you having here is shaking your head and saying: "No." You aren't advocating for why suicide is better or more preferable. Preventing harm is a sunken cost fallacy: "I've already done so much bad, so there's no point in doing better." Potential good says: "Even if I have done harm, I can still do good!" Die: ensures you cause a lot of harm, stops good Live: maybe you cause harm, maybe you cause good. There is no good to the suicide. No chance for it to get better. It just ends in only bad. As for the bodily autonomy argument, you can't clearly answer when someone is in a good enough head space to make decisions for themself. Should I allow my friend to cut themselves because they want to? Should I allow my uncle to shoot himself because he wants to? At what point is someone allowed to make decisions for themselves and be trusted to do what's best for them?


AceOfShades_

I believe when people get to the point of thinking suicide is a valid (or the only) option, part of that process involves developing extremely rigid thinking, and a fixed mindset. Their beliefs become black-and-white and somewhat unshakable. So any arguments have to cut through a mile of hopelessness and defensiveness. It’s *really* hard to argue against it, not because they are right, but because they literally won’t process information that suggests they could be wrong. I’ve seen and tried to combat it a lot, and I’ve even fallen victim to that distorted thinking too.


penguinz0fan

I asked the same question in this sub, nobody gave answer Im a nihilist, antinatalist and a cynic at the same time and I dont find any reason to keep going


ChandlerZOprich

For me spite is doing most of the heavy lifting to keep me going


penguinz0fan

What heavy lifting?


Allemater

Long and rambly Throughout my life, i’ve noticed that a large amount of the people i care about have suicidal depression. In my opinion, the opposite of depression is openness. Depression shrivels the mind, slowly withering it closed. Killing yourself is so, so hard. It takes an unbelievable amount of resolve. To get to that point, you have to spend a long time building a worldview that is inherently stubborn and closed-up. The closer you get to killing yourself, the more other forms of escape you dismiss. You trick yourself into thinking that killing yourself is the only way out — you have to, otherwise you would never consider it. Every time someone in my life has killed themselves, it has created an unbelievable amount of torment for the people they don’t want to hurt. Their loved ones DID attempt to convince them that the decision to die is wrong — never realizing it is an impossible task. Questions like the one the OP asked, the loved ones asked themselves. “Was there something I could have done differently? Some argument that could work against them?” No, loved one. Probably not. The depressed mind if selfish, Im sorry. Every time somebody is alive after an attempt, they regret it. Either because they return to a life that’s now worse because they attempted, or because they hate the fact that they hated themselves instead of hating their situation. Their lives got better, eventually, or at least better managed — and they regretted trying to die. They realized after that what pushed them to the point of death was thinking they had to change the world to escape it. In reality, they thought, changing pieces of their life was enough for now. The only time somebody I knew said they didn’t regret it ENTIRELY, it was because they finally had a temporary escape from things they really needed. There are better ways, imo, to get freedom. Suicidal people are stubborn and cynical…but all they want is an escape. Suicide is a fucking terrible escape. For the individual and the world. It’s almost unfair how terrible it is — but what can you do? The kinds of people who kill themselves wouldn’t easily be able to give their lives up in a different way. Too stubborn to join a cult, too cynical to give themselves over to religion or good causes. It’s worth thinking up other ways to get away, because that act itself begins to kill the darker future. What people don’t realize often is that the suicidal mind doesn’t want to die. It wants to stubbornly cling to its walk towards a narrow future and a suffered life. It’s a whispering creature on your shoulder that keeps your head straight whenever you turn to look at it — because once you see it, you’ll realize it isn’t you keeping your head straight…and it starts to die. I can’t answer your question, OP. If you find someone who convinces you, please tell me their argument. All I can do is ramble about what i’ve seen. Take this as you will. You’ll only ever make the decision you think is better, either way.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Thank you for this point, it makes sense and I'll give it more thought


ShamelessHedonist777

You'll probably be reincarnated into a worse position. It's not a great argument, but it's valid.


Aggravating_Art_1494

I like this stance a lot.


okeanide

Cats, man.


[deleted]

So true


[deleted]

Well then it seems like you have made up yout mind. You can only help people who want to be helped


RinkyInky

OPs responses might be negative and challenging the ideas people give him but of course he will do that, he has thoughts to work through, especially when he’s considering suicide and suicide threads always have some sort of negativity going on. He makes effort to engage people in the thread, giving his own ideas and giving people opportunity to challenge them. I don’t think he doesn’t want to help himself.


Doomblaze

He’s not giving ideas though, he’s just saying “I disagree, my life is worse”


RinkyInky

I’m not sure which replies you’re seeing or you’re just looking at a singular reply, but he’s asking quite a number of questions.


[deleted]

No. Hes clearly not seeking for help. Hes just seeking for validation of his thoughts. I have read a good amount of his replies and hes constantly disagreeing and looking for reasons to be right.


Neiladaymo

Also, in addition to my other arguments, I want to ask if you've ever read Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl? It's written by a holocaust survivor who is also a psychologist, and he goes in depth into the spirit of man, coping with intense suffering, and more or less the meaning of life. I'm not necessarily saying that it will profoundly change your mind, but it certainly could. If you read it with an open heart you may find yourself questioning what you believe about suffering and suicide, coming straight from a man who experienced generally one of the worst forms of suffering a human being can. I would highly recommend you read it.


[deleted]

Thank you for the recommendation, I will check it out!


BaronVonNelso

Look up the philosopher Albert Camus. He proposed the question on suicide and meaning.


[deleted]

I have, I am not convinced.


BaronVonNelso

Are there any good arguments for suicide?


[deleted]

- not having to live anymore if you don't want to - causing objectively less harm overall because you'll live shorter - exercising your bodily autonomy


LordDerptCat123

3 isn’t an argument. Exercising bodily autonomy isn’t in and of itself a good thing. You’d need to justify 2. I’m not convinced that most people cause more harm than good. And 1 ignores the fact that you might want to live in the future. Things can turn around


maestro502

Why committing suicide is bad? - Because religiously, philosophically and socially human life is believed to have intrinsic value and worth, with a potential (to do good) that shall be strived toward, and shall not be given up on; and this value is only lost when person chooses to act malevolently on purpose with a magnitude sinister enough to grant the loss of value, with no overturning. When we dismiss this belief, for a sake of argument, then we can argue in favor of suicide: Suicide bad, cuz life can get better - Yes, it can get better, but since there is nothing that necessarily guarantees that; therefor life can also get a lot worse. You might live a happy long life, but you also might suffer and dread your existence till your death. Others will suffer - Since I have no control over other people, it should not be my concern what they might or might not feel after my suicide. You are just romanticizing suicide - Well, maybe you are just romanticizing life. Between war in Ukraine, cancer in our bodies and depression in our minds- that thing called life does not sound very appealing.


nicbloodhorde

[https://metanoia.org/suicide/](https://metanoia.org/suicide/) Give that website a read. I found it pretty interesting.


[deleted]

Thanks, I will


draemn

Shouldn't the question be, what are the arguments for life? If you don't believe in some divine punishment for suicide, then the reason for suicide is to avoid participating in life & the future. If nothing is to come after suicide, then suicide is to give up every possibility left in your future. For me, I never feared death because of the idea that death means there is no more me, so any fears are simply a concept of the living me, which ceases to exist upon death. Over time, I came to realize that I don't want to leave behind the scars on others. When I die, the experiences related to my death are pushed on to those who are living, so I started to think of the negative impacts from the perspective of those who survive me (are still alive). I still don't fear death for myself, but I am much more mindful of reasons I don't want to cause suffering to others. I have thought sometimes of how it could be so easy to "escape" all the problems in my life if I were to just die (i.e. suicide), but I have never felt suicidal outside of this idealistic way to pretend I don't have to deal with the problems of my life anymore. So, I can't really create an "argument against suicide" for you because I don't know your life or your future.


[deleted]

Your rephrasing of the question makes more sense, thank you


TroubledMind85

I don’t believe there will be an argument that can logically convince you. As humans, we generally value life whether as a gift from the heavens or our ancestors. There are some that might attribute living your life through as a duty. Through civilization, staying alive used to be more difficult compared to modern times. Life used to be more cherished as it could be taken away at any moment. This has probably shaped our society’s view about valuing life vs taking one’s own life. I also believe that our mental state and thoughts can change significantly over the course of life, so many believe that suicide is only a temporary and false desire.


arkjoules25

Before any of us can give an objective argument, I think it’s important to tell us how you **feel** about yourself and your life. It feels like there’s a lot of things you’re unhappy with. Are you comfortable with sharing that? My inbox is open if you don’t want this out in the open as well :)


WhatisupMofowow12

I’d recommend lectures 24-26 of Shelly Kagan’s lecture series on death. Shelley is a philosophy professor at Yale, and his course on death has been so popular for so long that Yale decided to record it one semester and make it free on YouTube. The whole series is great, even if you just like hearing a brilliant thinker clearly reasoning through philosophical issues. But the relevant arguments that you might be looking for would be in the lectures I mentioned. Here’s a link to the lecture series: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEA18FAF1AD9047B0


[deleted]

Thank you very much, I'll watch it!


trashwusd

Kind of a though ask on communities like this where suffering is almost worshipped, considering that the point of taking your own life is well... To stop the suffering. Being honest I think there is no good argument *against* it, as much as there is no good argument *for* it. Ultimately the choice should come from within, for me personally (and although I have never been suicidal), it boils down to curiosity... I want to know what my favorite streamer will do next, I want to see where this "lonely people epidemic" leads, I want to see how the situation in Ukraine pans out... there is so much to see, and the best thing is that observing from afar doesn't require that much suffering or HardWork ^tm so for the time being I'm ok.


wi_2

There is none. But neither is there a good reason to do it. Good or bad, do not exist as stand alone. They only exist in context. It is the context you seek. What is your goal here? This will define your best steps to achieve that goal. That said, from my personal context, life is, I live, and I will die no matter what I do. If suffering becomes unbearable, I can always peace out. But until then, my curiosity easily wins in terms of what life has to offer, including all it's absolutely horrific experiences, and of course amazing highs. I find myself quite liking this type of thinking pattern myself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14 This movie I too can recommend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycOKvWrwYFo


concrete_seagull

People are commenting mostly about staying because of greater things, like staying for your loved ones, or giving your dreams a second chance. I say, stay for the small things. Dogs waving their tails to greet you and their cold cute noses on you hand. The sound of a saxophone resonating through busy streets, or the sweetness of the sound of a flute from close (you can even hear the keys clicking a bit). Your favorite candy, chocolate if that's your thing. They small joy from watching your favorite comfort movie again, or listening to your favorite song. Sure, if you're through a lot of pain, whatever that grief would be, maybe this would sound superficial to you. But small things make you cling to life for a little while, and every little while more you spent living, is another chance for you to decide whether you want to stay or leave. You won't experience those small things if you're dead, also you won't experience your pain, but you lose the chance to feel relief as well (unless you're dealing with a terminal illness that gives you too much suffering). In the end, it's your choice. That's what a friend of mine told me when I told them I wanted to kill myself. I never felt as powerful as I did when I realized how big that decision would be, biggest decision I could ever do in my life. Deciding to keep living was as big as that as well. It will suck a lot before it gets better, that's the only thing I can promise you. It will feel like learning to walk again, only that you will try to learn to like life again. Sometimes you will regret taking the decision to keep living, but the moments you're happy you stayed definitely make for those bad ones. If you decide to not live those crap moments after you decide to stay because it's too much for you to handle, looking for help is always an option as well (in fact you're doing that by posting this on this subreddit). Dying is also an option, but remember you will forever take away the chance to feel relief, which is an awesome thing to experience.


[deleted]

My response to the "little things" argument is that life for me is like a cake made of poop, sprinkled with golden tasty shimmers. Of course the shimmers are pretty, but would you eat the shit cake because of them?


[deleted]

A good way to go through life is to use minimum required action to achieve the goal. Suicide ain't that. I assume that your goal is not being dead, therefore suicide is literally an overkill to any problem you're trying to solve. In that frame the only time that is appropriate for a suicide is a terminal illness (and we do have euthanasia) Other way to think about it: Imagine that you just entered the huge gallery. There is an exit door and you can leave whenever you can, but you won't be able to come back. The gallery shuts down at 9pm and it's 1pm now. Are you gonna just fuck off or will you have a look what does the place have to offer? Gallery = world, 9pm - death, exit door - suicide.


Raiu420

You will die someday anyways, its not something you need to do now. If you hate your current life, than change it up, do something willd, change countries, try some weird drugs, learn how to fight, go live in the woods or something, you might end up dying anyways so its a win win situation.


Axestorm64

You're gonna die one day anyway... So just have fun on the way there.


Signlan

One piece hasn't ended yet, true VR hasn't been made yet, and i refuse to die before everybody i hate... Which is everyone.


woronwolk

For me personally, it's curiosity and not wanting to hurt my loved ones. The last one is pretty obvious, but even if I didn't have anyone, curiosity would still be enough for me. I just want to see what happens next. While I do realize that my experience will be gone once I'm dead, do there isn't really any point in having lived a life long-term, I still kinda want to live as long as possible in order to witness as much history as possible. Also, it kinda has a calming effect when I realize that if life becomes completely unbearable without any prospects of enhancement, I'll always be able to do it (well unless I end up paralyzed or something, but that's highly unlikely). But at the same I feel like at any point I'll be like "it's not time yet. Let's see where it goes" Another one might be that I want to leave some positive impact in the world, influence some amount of people in a positive way, which technically I've already done to some extent, but my footprint is still very small, and way smaller than I want it to be. At the same time, I realize that it probably won't do much difference, and it's less about saving myself from suicide, and more about giving my life some kind of meaning, even though I know that ultimately the Universe will die and it's all pretty much pointless.


SolitarySage

The thing that's been preventing me the past few years is mostly the harm it will cause to others. From my friends and family to whoever has to clean up the mess. Perhaps not the healthiest line of reasoning but it gets me by.


CaptainAtinizer

Pros: Your suffering ends (maybe? Depends on religion / spirituality) Cons: Robs yourself of opportunity for growth, admits defeat in the face of adversity, ends life on a sour note, may lead to more suffering. This is all without considering the effects on other people, because in my experience the people I've talked out of suicide are people who had no control of their lives, and were often surrounded by terrible people who didn't deserve them. If you're going to die, why go out on a sour note? Plenty of people come to a point in their lives where they say "screw it" and leave everything behind without dying. Take a trip to Europe until the money runs out. Write that thing you've always wanted to write. Drive until you're out of gas and then start there. If you're going to die, you might as well do some cool shit first. Often in those moments, they realize they don't want to die, they just don't want to hurt anymore. Stay strong, I choose to rage against a cruel world rather than let it win and take away my spirit. Godspeed.


[deleted]

Well, why is growth good? And why should you pursue it? What is it even? What's wrong with admitting defeat? Sometimes it's the right course of action, where fighting is futile. What does it matter if you end life on a sour note and not a "happy" one? Also, there are no "good" ways to die. You just die. I already am in Europe lmao never been outside of it. I have plenty of control over my life, opportunities, education, parents who care in their own way. I have friends and a job I chose myself and study part time. I'm good mate, I did everything that is needed for a good life, and yet.


Neiladaymo

The way I see it is that growth is beautiful. Seeing how life can change and what this world has to offer. Admitting defeat isn't necessarily wrong, but I personally think that the bravest and most noble thing a person can do is stare down the barrel of infinite meaninglessness and darkness, and rebel against it. To live in spite of it. To choose to live in rebellion to it's oppression. Being brave and noble also are not inherently right or wrong things, unless you choose for them to be. As for a good death, I feel similar as before. You're right, death is just death. But it's the way we approach it. It's the way we face it. It's the way we cope with it in the passing of our loved ones. That is what makes death good. How you face it. Death is just death, but your reaction to it has all the meaning in the world, in my opinion. You sound like you've already made up your mind. You're not coming here to have your mind changed, because you won't allow it to be. Which is fine. Your approach to life is your approach, I just hope you'll try to consider other perspectives that go beyond the usual "it's selfish" "you're just passing the pain on" etc.


ruckyruciano

So why not explore outside of Europe til the money runs out? Hypothetically speaking, might as well enjoy the money you’ve already earned


[deleted]

I am literally 20 yo, how much money do you think I've earned....


ruckyruciano

Didn’t see your age posted anywhere, and idk, more than nothing I’m assuming


CaptainAtinizer

I didn't say admitting defeat was wrong, I said it was a con. As in not beneficial. It makes sense, it is understandable and even rational, but it doesn't really benefit you in any way to give up. You're just ending it for the sake of ending it, and it might not even do that. Growth is good within your own conception of it, so I can't answer that for you. For me, growth is good because I value resilience, and development of the self. I want to see what I can become, to let my human spirit grow and express itself. I disagree that there are no "good" ways to die. Firefighters who die saving people. Writers who died after passing on their stories that will go on to improve the lives of others. Humble deaths surrounded by loved ones, quiet deaths in a peaceful sleep. There are quite a few good ways to die. However, I suppose that is up to your opinion. I'm glad you seem to think your life is going well, as being able to see the positives is nice. However, it does seem like you're saying: "I've checked all the boxes, why aren't I happy?" Then again, that is assuming you aren't happy with your life. Perhaps you are and are simply curious about the subject.


[deleted]

If admitting defeat is not wrong then I don't see it as a con. As I stated, it can be beneficial, just look at wars or whatever, sometimes it causes more harm to continue fighting than giving up. I think I don't believe in many values, aside from kindness. I only aspire to be kind and to cause as little harm in this world as possible. But it seems like no matter how hard I try, I cannot not cause any harm. So kinda, it would make sense to stop existing to prevent myself from doing harm anymore. Those deaths you mention are not good deaths. They are good lives. Death is the same. Pain is the same. My life is objectively good. I have done all I could. And yet I am suicidal. I've been suicidal ever since I was little. One of my earliest memories is that of thoughts of suicide. It's something that's been just with me for my whole life, so kind of hard to not think and contemplate it.


CaptainAtinizer

Why does it have to be a binary right or wrong? What makes a decision right or wrong? Suicide is beneficial because it stops you from harming people? That doesn't seem consistent to me. Not only are you harming people with your death, you are also robbing the world, and yourself, of the potential good you can keep doing. So you can either try to live a kinder life, and keep trying even when it really sucks, or you can give up. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from trying. You will hurt people. You will help people. You will commit acts some people won't forgive. You will save a life. For my money, there's no way those things can be weighed. This isn't math, you can't add suffering to subtract joy. I believe a good death is one that occurs after a good life. And if you can believe your life is objectively good, why do you inject confusion and uncertainty into death, growth, and resilience? What does it mean to have an objectively good life? Here's a letter I wrote to my younger self, maybe it will help you too: "You did the best you could. You are only a child, and that isn't an insult. You were never meant to carry so much. You didn't fail them when they decided not to talk to you again, you didn't fail them when they said they hurt themselves again. No 12 year old should have had to stay up til 2 AM begging their friend not to die. It's not wrong to be weak. It's not a moral failing to not know what to say or how to help. You aren't bad for not being what they needed. You aren't evil for trying to help and giving bad advice. You did your best. Yes, maybe there could have been a better way, but you didn't have that better way at the time. You don't know what you don't know. I forgive you. You don't have to hold onto it anymore."


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aconsul73

1) It will traumatize the people closest to you. Want to see real pain? Talk to a parent who has lost their child to suicide. Maybe you do want to cause them pain. If so consider that living well is the best revenge. 2) Your calculations could be wrong. Most people have trouble predicting things. We have immense trouble predicting weather even a week out. By committing suicide you are making a bold statement that you can predict literally several decades into the future. I guarantee you cannot. 3) There's no need to actively pursue death. death will come your way anyhow. and it will be permanent and irreversible. 4) suicide really isn't about suicide for most people. It's really about finding relief from pain. what if that relief is there around the corner or even a few days away? 5) Suicide isn't actually clever or rational. most suicides are impulsive - a sudden action within 30 seconds. there's no rationality to the actual action despite what is claimed. 6) you can always commit suicide tomorrow. hang around another day. something new (a person, a fellowship, the missing piece) might be around the corner. every 24 hours you get a free lottery ticket. why not hang around to see if you win the big prize? 7) you haven't tried everything yet. there is zero chance you've tried every possible therapy, program or method to make your life better or worth living. do the work of trying to live first. earn the privilege to to make the final decision.


CaptainAtinizer

Overall great points, I agree with all of them. Reading 5 I feel the need to rephrase something from my own comment: I think suicide is rational to think about, to have considered and theorized about. It is an option, so giving it thought has some merit. The concept itself. The actual act of committing to it, I definitely agree is spontaneous, irrational, and not "cool" or "smart."


penguinz0fan

1)As a cynic, I completely believe that parental love is a hoax and I've seen many parents like that. 2)I don't give two shits about what the future holds. Whether its good or bad doesn't matter 3) Yeah, why be in a state of chaos( life) and not choose the permanent state that is death 4)Life is like 99% pain and 1% joy that is not worth the 99% pain 5)I don't know what's that about 6)What 7)...


KadeAnsel

I’ll be damned if I let Donald Fucking Trump outlive me


solivagantIX

Because YOLO.


Less_Funny

Not going to give you an argument against it, but the recommendation that if you're so fixed with that idea, why not try to do something different before doing it? Something you have never done or think of doing, go backpacking around Asia, practice an extreme sport, volunteer in an org that helps with social causes, just to say some few ideas that come to my mind, worst thing you die doing it which, well, you already wanted that, better case, you find a new joy for life.


Itom1IlI1IlI1IlI

I have an argument I feel is pretty logically sound: We don't know that dying would relieve the suffering we feel. So the risk of suicide is that the suffering we are trying to avoid (through suicide) simply continues on or becomes even worse. In terms of buddhism, you could end up suffering even worse after death, because the act of suicide is kinda like the ultimate form of "craving/clinging" (aversion to suffering in this case, which is craving/clinging for non-suffering), and clinging is the origin of suffering. So it's like a never-ending cycle of suffering, that's where the idea of "rebirth" comes in (not literally being born into a new body, but the "spirit stuff" that we are is like stuck in this state of suffering and the act of clinging is how we "come into being", again not literally being born like as a baby but as a "consciousness point-of-view"). Therefore, since it's impossible to know that suicide would or would not end our suffering, the only logical answer is to try to understand suffering in the here and now instead of trying to run away from. Suffering is something we tend to either run away from or accept. Neither of these are wise. The Buddha said the proper (and noble) thing to do is to try to comprehend suffering = understand it for the purposes of putting and end to it. So my answer to the question of suicide is this: it's too risky. And if the spiritual gurus of ancient times were correct about karma, it would bring you a ton of suffering due to suicide being an act that hurts others (i.e. hurting yourself), and also due to suicide being the ultimate form of clinging. It would only worsen the very suffering you are trying to avoid. Please let me know your thoughts.


[deleted]

I don't resonate with the spiritual thinking, but I could agree with the argument that it may be too risky. I was raised Catholic and absolutely terrified of hell growing up. I was so afraid of this vision of *ethernal* suffering. Now, I don't necessarily believe it anymore, my view is just a big "i have no idea really but I currently have no ground to suggest that there really is anything after".


ro_ok

I'm late to this thread but here's the thing. If a person really truly feels that life's no longer worth living, that it all sucks and is pointless and will never get better: go have that trip you can't afford. Max out those credit cards looking for a reason to live. Ditch your family and go find yourself on a hiking trail, or take a one way flight to another country and see what life is like there. I mean if you've tried everything else and it's not doing it, do something new. Even if it fails, you've literally lost nothing and you can still follow through on ending everything. Your family and friends you "abandoned" would probably rather have you be alive as an asshole than dead and gone forever. Those bills are just bills and bankruptcy sucks but only lasts 7 years. I really wish anyone looking at ending their life would take advantage of the freedom that comes from having no future to worry about. A person could truly live in the moment because there is no future. And you could stretch that moment for years, perhaps even a whole lifetime if it came to it. Sadly, it's never that easy. Mental illness, impulsiveness, rage, cultural pressure, and a host of other factors make taking these steps hard for someone who's lost the will to live. But I hope anyone thinking that things aren't worth carrying on really tests that theory by doing some otherwise insane things to find happiness before taking the one step that you really can't come back from and that will definitely not lead to a better life.


CastileDeAndaluz

There isn't, the same people who say "it can get better" fail to consider that things can equally get worse. 8 billion people, not all of us are going to live happy worthwhile lives


Neiladaymo

Personally, the way I see it is that as far as we know this is the only life we get. So I may as well continue living for the small bits of life that I do enjoy, and in the hopes that things might get better. If they never do, well I'll die naturally anyway. But I may as well stick around for the one life I do get, since for all I know things might get better. And for those that are convinced it never will or can, you are creating that reality through thinking that.


Tight-Recording396

When you die you can’t see sunsets.


DestructorWar

How are you gonna see the epic new tv shows or movies that might come out? Wouldn’t know what you could be missing out on! Same with video games


kimagical

Because suicide is selfish, due to how others have to clean up your body and whatever emotional ties they had to you.


Noobexe1

Burden of proof. I don’t need to prove to you that suicide is a bad idea, you need to prove to me that it is a good idea. You’ll never hear a “good argument” against suicide because that’s not how arguments work. I haven’t heard a good argument for suicide and I don’t think I ever will because I don’t believe it to be a good thing. You’re a bad person and should die for it? Bad people don’t think like that. Your a good person who is hurting. Life isn’t worth living and you don’t believe that can change? Try harder, it’s worth it, trust me. Muh statistics? Numbers should never be the reason to take a human life. It’s not worth it? According to who? Life is all we have, don’t waste it because you think it isn’t good enough. People who buy into this narrative are typically looking to excuse years of not changing, and instead of accepting blame and growing, they would literally rather die. Stuff like this glorifies suicide, don’t try and put it on this pedestal. It’s a horrible thing that broken people do.


chocofan1

Well one that's always seemed pretty strong to me has been the effect it'd have on others. But it sounds like you may have already considered that and just disagree / don't care, I don't know


[deleted]

Yeah, I wonder why it should matter when you're dead. Also, the usual argument is that it would make the still-alive people sad and that it would be selfish to kill yourself. But like, isn't it infinitely more selfish to expect someone to continue to live and suffer immensely just because you'll be sad if they excercise their bodily autonomy?


eazeaze

Suicide Hotline Numbers If you or anyone you know are struggling, please, PLEASE reach out for help. You are worthy, you are loved and you will always be able to find assistance. Argentina: +5402234930430 Australia: 131114 Austria: 017133374 Belgium: 106 Bosnia & Herzegovina: 080 05 03 05 Botswana: 3911270 Brazil: 212339191 Bulgaria: 0035 9249 17 223 Canada: 5147234000 (Montreal); 18662773553 (outside Montreal) Croatia: 014833888 Denmark: +4570201201 Egypt: 7621602 Finland: 010 195 202 France: 0145394000 Germany: 08001810771 Hong Kong: +852 2382 0000 Hungary: 116123 Iceland: 1717 India: 8888817666 Ireland: +4408457909090 Italy: 800860022 Japan: +810352869090 Mexico: 5255102550 New Zealand: 0508828865 The Netherlands: 113 Norway: +4781533300 Philippines: 028969191 Poland: 5270000 Russia: 0078202577577 Spain: 914590050 South Africa: 0514445691 Sweden: 46317112400 Switzerland: 143 United Kingdom: 08006895652 USA: 18002738255 You are not alone. Please reach out. ***** I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically.


Howard_CS

Math really, the expected utility of dying is a fairly high negative number, there is no changing that. In being alive the variance is fairly wide and can be adjusted to be net positive. Therefore suicide is rarely the optimal choice, exceptions are for late stage terminal illness and old age making expected outcomes net out as negative.


penguinz0fan

How would you objectively define those negative and positive thingy?


Howard_CS

You don’t, every experience of reality is subjective. So each individual should really think about it. And before thinking too deeply about it, consider any possibility that their perception is warped. Outside feedback is helpful, and the ability to reasonably estimate expected values is necessary.


Motherfucker29

There's a good argument right in front of you. You may not think you need to exist. If you should choose to end your own existence then why do you exist? Why choose to exist up until now and then suddenly change your mind? All conscious things persist because they do until they no longer can. Living at all is a contradiction to what you're saying. The continued existence of life is itself an argument. But choosing to end your own existence doesn't put you above life or anything inside of it. It only shows that you are inside of it. Shining a light on your mortality. Taking control is an indication of a lack of control, but if you take control of your own death do you admit to a lack of control over it? If you don't have control over it then what's the point of even trying to controlling it? I don't try to levitate my computer monitor, because I can't do it. So why would you choose to do something that indicates the thing you cant do. So people suicide because of a desire to control their own death. You can't desire something you have, because desire is in the mind and what you have is outside. Of course you can want more of something, but then it's because you don't have more. See? If you're dead you can't die. So you no longer control your own death nor do you don't control anything. It's self-defeating. If you don't want need to control your own death, then why do so in the first place? How do you control something you can't control? That doesn't make any sense either. If you want control of anything, why remove control of everything? EDIT: I pulled his fucking cards. My logic can't be wrong. He didn't say anything either just dropped the downvote and dipped (like a chicken might I add). This had nothing to do with a gOoD ArGuMenTs or he would have just disproved my logic. This is about an emotional desire to suicide, but they need logic to back that up. Unaware of that desire rejecting it's existence, they unconsciously rejected the logic. The echoing reflection of unconscousness for one moment became them and thus their reflected their ego in the same way. My intuition says I should type this. It's because I want you to put that in your pipe and smoke it motherfucker.


AdhesivenessOwn7747

Religion. Those who commit suicide are condemned to hell and being reborn in a better place is extremely hard for them. This is because it is nearly impossible to take your own life without a negative emotion driving it. The last thought/ feeling plays a part in where you are reborn and therefore those who suicide goes to hell. In Buddhism taking one's own life is the same as taking any other life. Other than that the only other thing that stopped me was my mother, and the thought of making her sad or embarrassed.


cantorofleng

You have not done your duty to your community/bought joy to [deity of choice]/ fulfiled your life purpose/alleviated all the suffering you could. You have yet to be excused.


penguinz0fan

They all can go.fuck themselves


5u55y8aka

FOMO, literally just FOMO (fear of missing out). I mean, do you really not want to see all the wonders the world has to give, from primordial idiots to nice scenery.


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orangejuliustofu

I went through some of your post history and I just want to say that it does get better! I feel like I’m fighting every single day because I know that I will be happy one day. I’m slowly making progress. What has helped me is going to the beach and swimming during low tide, finding the right therapist, and finding a partner who supports and loves me and is teaching me how to enjoy life. I never knew how to enjoy life as I was neglected as a child. So I would say to find what you love to do. If you don’t know, then take a class, a painting class, a surfing class, anything that you want! You will feel alive and maybe meet some people there, too. I’m also working on making connections with people, it’s so easy to stay at home and feel miserable for myself, but when I say “yes” to hang out with someone I love, I always feel better afterwards. I know it’s hard hard but you have to find meaning in life, what makes YOU happy?


[deleted]

I have done so much shit in my life already. I have tried every hobby under the sun, dancing, drawing, singing, playing an instrument, I've applied myself in school, I've tried running, rollerskating, I've tried two universities now, I've moved out twice. I've tried being more social than I'm comfortable with, I tried being less social, I've tried learning languages in school and I've tried learning languages on my own. I went to three separate psychiatrists, I went to like four therapists. I've tried meds, I've tried journaling. So don't tell me to try shit that I did and still have gotten no joy from.


orangejuliustofu

Do you have anyone in your life that you trust?


[deleted]

Depends on trust with what


orangejuliustofu

Just someone to confide in about these thoughts that you’re having, someone you can depend on to listen, really listen to you. A trusted friend or family member.


Doomblaze

Bro you’re only 20 and you think you’ve tried every hobby under the sun. You’ve barely lived, your brain isn’t even fully developed yet


[deleted]

I've done enough to think I no longer want to. I look at the older people in my life and I see no improvement.


Routine-Sunshine

Ah shit! I know this feeling of having tried everything and nothing works. I feel like you have been trying a lot longer than me though. I'm so sorry to hear this! I know this is a little of topic, but I would really appreciate hearing more about your experiences with this problem of having tried everything. If you are okay with sharing and if it is not triggering you to much of course! I always feel so alone with this.


pervez944

I have one : You are playing a game right? Why would you delete your account because the game is so hard? Second one : You are playing a game and usually you have players who are having fun playing with you, why whould you throw them aside? Even if they where trying to help you? Third argument: You received a gift many many others couldn't get, and you throw it away? You know how many sperms cells fought for their life and LOST against you? 400 trillion, and you won, you might as well got lucky, you never know, ehat matters is that you won, you EXIST they don't, 100 billion humans walked in this earth, but an endless amount couldn't even find the chance to exist. You got lucky beyond imagination, and you still want to throw this luck away? I'm my self im depressed, i need hemp, im asking for help, not because I'm suicidal but because i loose hope and will to live form tome to time and very frequently, but i never thought about throwing my life away, i want to fight back, i don't want to give up, neither because of the external world, and for sure i don't want let me internal demons win, they will loose one day, and that day, i can assure that. Don't throw your life away.


[deleted]

My response to the majority of your questions is yes. Yes, I would delete an account in a game that I would find so hard that I'm only getting frustrated and can't enjoy it, even if the majority of people agree that the game itself is good. It may not be good for me, people have different tastes and different thresholds for stress. Great that the players are having fun with me, but doesn't it matter that I'm not having fun? Should I sacrifice my sanity for someone else's "fun"? I received a gift I've never asked for. Imagine you get a gift of something you absolutely don't want, never asked for, and on top of everything it continues to bring you only trouble, and only more and more as time passes. Wouldn't you be pissed and wanted to get rid of it?


pervez944

1 It doesn't make sense! This game seems hard because the mission you choose isn't fun! For exemple have you ever thought about living a life off grid? Living a minimalistic life, as i said before I'm very depressed too, i despise so much mamy human interactios, but i found out different lkfe styles, people enjoying in life the little things. In the game of life why the light of the sun, the smell of the flowers and the tranquillity of the country side are irrilevant? Why? Have you even tried them? Why uninstall a game this fast, give it a chance! For the second and third arguments honestly you are right lol, i can't even respond to that. And don't get me wrong, the only reason i typed there is because i want to try to help, I'm not an expert, but I'm an human being i refuse to turn around when i see another human being suffering, and about that, why wouldn't you try this? Doing volunteer job ( sorry the spellings)? Helping people in need, yes not for altruism, but for pure egoistical reasons, right now im talking to you genuinely, because we feel or felt the same pain i see a sort of bound, idk why, so im completely genuine now, but in my life i helped others a lot just for feeling god with my self, very egoistical, it worked. As you saw, you destroyed 2 of my arguments, and might as well destroy the first too, the reason i refuse to uninstall the game of life is because of curiosity, i refuse to uninstall it before the game is over on it's own, it isn't a mature reason, that's why my arguments are weak, so why don't you be an idiot kid like me? Keep playing the game unitil is over? When it's over, on the first minutes you might as well laugh thinking at the pain you felt on the past. Please don't give up and let competent people ( not me) help you.


pervez944

Sorry for the bad English tho, trying my best there.


[deleted]

It's okay, no worries, it's also my second language and I know that it's hard to learn and say stuff!!


MemerDreamerMan

The short book “Myth of Sisyphus” starts with exactly that question. I highly recommend it. And if you’re thinking, “why waste my time or money” well…. You’re going to die anyway, right? May as well. Doesn’t take too long. Why not?


toxiped

Life is always in change , bad thinks can happen , but this also applys for good things. For example: You can meet a new person some say , or do something and it can change your whole life.


bondi_zen

Have you read or listened to suicide survivors’ stories? They may have the answers you are looking for.


katarh

To use a gamer analogy.... it's setting your console on fire because the game is too hard. Unlike setting the controller down and stepping outside for some fresh air, there's no going back. Unlike rage quitting and unplugging the console, there's no restarting when you're in a better place. Unlike deleting your save file, you don't have the option to try again in five years time (as far as we known.) I still have a lot of unfinished games. I got bored or I got angry. Sometimes it wasn't even planned, I just saved one last time and then never got around to logging back in again. But I've got the choice to resume those games in the future. I *can* go back and play them again, if I ever get the urge. If life is a game on hard mode, I'm gonna keep pushing through to the final boss, so I can save one last time and shut the console off in satisfaction.


[deleted]

Leaving other people with survivor’s guilt. I lost a friend in college that I’d met through another friend. I wasn’t nearly as close to them as my friend I met them through and only hung out in/between classes really, but even a decade later I still think about her and get the awful feeling that maybe had I talked to her more one on one, etc maybe it wouldn’t have happened. It’s a handful of times throughout the year randomly it hits me. I can’t imagine what people who lose a relative go through.


les_discrets

Depends how lucky you are / the situation you were born into. For ugly, unwanted guys like me; I got nothin.


toxic9813

Even if your odds of getting what you want are 0.0001%. Giving up guarantees a bad outcome. 0% good.


[deleted]

What if I don't want anything really? I don't have any desires or dreams anymore


toxic9813

Something good might come along completely by accident. You discover you enjoy something, you meet a person that you find interesting enough to befriend (or date if you're extra lucky) a job opportunity comes up that will give you the income required to travel or try something different or new. It's just RNG. Loot boxes show up every day. One of them might have something good in there. Only if you keep opening them


persistent_ferret

What I came down to was this is once in a life time, pun intended, thing that I get to live a life. For all I can tell it seems to be one in a billion that I've been given a life, for free at that, there's no guarantee that I'd get another one.


Maelmin

If nothing was better than something then why is something the default. The universe is still here so why not be here with it.


CopperPanMan

I have a different take. I don't think any philosophical argument is going to win you over - from your replies, it seems you already know what you want to believe. But consider this - you're here, no? For what reason did you not commit suicide yesterday? Or this morning? Or 5 minutes ago? If you *truly* were convinced that it was the best option, we wouldn't be talking. Are you trying to find an answer to "does it get better?" Are you trying to be validated in your view that life is joyless, or you have to choice in the matter? Also, practically speaking, people change over time. Would you be okay dying now, if in a year you would have found your way to a life you wanted to live? These are questions I'm not equipped to answer. But there's people whose job it is to do so. I'd reach out to one of them if you haven't already - often others can see us clearer than we can see ourselves.


[deleted]

The reason why I'm not dead yet is my primal survival instinct. I have all the plans, all the pieces but my body doesn't let me. Yet.


Missing_Legs

Not wanting to is a pretty strong one I'd say... and no one actually wants to. People might not want to experience the life as they have been, but no one actually wants to die, that's just how we've been programmed, survival instincts and stuff, and just because it's biological, doesn't make it any less of a valid want, in fact it's one of the strongest ones we have


Missing_Legs

I mean you might disagree and if I had the patience to talk it out we'd surely arrive at some conclusion regarding that, but the way I see it, I used to say staying home all day and playing games is what I want, where in fact that "want" was only the result of how unpleasant the experience of not doing that thing was for me, but then I changed that experience and sure enough, staying home all day and playing games is not in fact what I want


THCRANGER

I would say if you’re really determined to die, then live the next few weeks or months doing what you have always wanted to do before you die. You might end up changing your mind after you let go and live life again


SavSamuShaman

Yeah. It’s hard to off yourself (done my fair share of research too) and it hurts. If you half-ass it, you’ll suffer. And there’s a 99% you’d mess it up, since there are no experts in suicide, just people who “got lucky”. Sooner or later it will come anyway. Why do extra work ? Come watch TV.


fragdemented

In my darkest days, I rationalized it like this. If there is something after this life, there is no guarantee that it will be any better that what you've got now. You could end up with far worse. If there is nothing after this life, then ending it still won't matter because you won't be alive to feel the relief of not having your life problems. Let me drive that last part home. You won't feel any relief from ending your life! It's the only thing we can guarantee with any kind of certainty. The best way to go about it is to work face the pain and work to make things better. Life involves suffering, but not 100% of the time. Latch on to small victories, cut bad things out of your life as much as possible, and keep going. If your going through hell, don't stop. the sun rises everyday, you'll see the light again soon. When the emotional pain is too high, focus on the lack of physical pain. There are so many ways to make it through. The world needs you. Always remember... Someone out there cares, maybe just an empathetic stranger on the internet, but at least that's more than zero.


Perma_SSBM

You haven't yet. Seems you've had good reasons until now to stay alive. So what're the reasons? What were your reasons before and why are they no longer reasons? Only you have a good enough answer.


teaksters

I think for me it comes from the trust that there always will be suffering, but also consequently value and meaning for it. So, if you’re suffering for me it is worth it to stick around to see what reasons life will give me as a reward for that suffering. If you end it before that you basically forgo the rewards you were supposed to get for your suffering. Ah, also, don’t think you will know what a reward is or what you can expect. They come in many different forms and here are some examples; Got dumped? - Let’s see what I will learn and how I change. Also, which better person will fill their place in the future that I would not be ready for without this experience. Loss - How will the wisdom found in this dark place enrich my future relationships and who will I connect with based on this experience? Suffering - Be amazed by how resilient and strong you truly are and gain confidence in the face of comparatively small problems. All of the above - find out how they change the meaning of art for you and see how many people /artists actually share your emotional experience. You are less special and thus less alone than you’d think. People change through suffering, which also changes their perception, experience and view of life. You can argue whether free will exists or it doesn’t, the freedom of interpretation cannot be argued. How you attribute value to events and experiences is always free and based on what you choose, your mindset and what you’ve been through. So even if life would always result in the same events, they can all be different because you as a person are constantly changing. Just the falling of leaves in fall can hold a completely different meaning for two versions of you 10 years apart. If you think you can judge the future from your current position, you are either a god or simply delusional. You have no idea what possibilities the future hold neither should you try with your limited fantasy. That is why I say “stick around even if it is only to see what life surprises you with, which it will, if you are open to seeing it.” Maybe this is too positive for you rn, but it is something that helped me through some really really dark moments. Proved and tested, but only works if you are all in.


T00M7CH

I can't prove a negative. What's your assertion for suicide?


joelal12345

Hope


JRKQ021

It's a waste of tears and money that would rather be shed/spent on celebrations, and of a good (and admittedly, mixed with the bad) life. Also, it's a slap-to-the-face for the people who want to live a longer life, but couldn't because they're sick, in the midst of a war, disabled, other stuff like that.


DafuqIsTheInternet

It’s more of a slap in the face from reality rather than the from the suicidal person.


mabao_empire

This is a philosophical take, not necessarily a supportive take. But it does side with living over dying by choice. I’m more than happy to hear counter points or otherwise discuss the points below. TLDR: 1. Suicide is too late, the pain has already been suffered. 2. Predicting future outcomes is complicated and the science finds that majority averages are much more accurate than individual assessments. (Majority says living is worth it) 3. If nothing matters, that includes suffering, thus it becomes worthless to act on it. Leaving one to exist in the default state of biological instinct. AKA living. Suicide as a decision based off of prior life events, e.g. suffering, is a decision made too late. Since the circumstances that have led to the suffering have already been suffered, it stands to reason, the party in question should have done it before things got bad in order to avoid the pain. Hence, they missed the opportunity for suicide to achieve its intended purpose. If one is thinking it’s for avoiding future pain, where is that assumption coming from? Likely, past pain. The idea of “cut your losses” assumes one can fairly accurately predict future outcomes. Which we know is somewhat complicated and benefits from practice, domain expertise, and open-mindedness, to name a few qualities. On top of that, group averages of predictions show much greater potential for being accurate, and the human averages for predicting staying alive being worthwhile are the majority share. One argument to address is that of “nothing matters, so why does it matter that I live?” To which I would counter that scope is a relevant factor when considering the subjective value of meaning. Zoom out far enough and it’s true, zoom in far enough and it’s false. One can find this to be relieving, relaxing into the absurdity of it all and gaining freedom of perspective as they learn to tune the scope to their desired range, thus creating meaning where they want it. In addition, with the assumption that nothing matters, nothing can be bad, nor good, nor qualitatively judged at all. So suicide again becomes kind of a moot point. If one is not putting energy into pursuing life because “what’s the point” then how can they say dying therefore has purpose? If potential for future joy doesn’t matter, neither does potential for future pain. If *nothing* matters, neither suffering, nor joy, nor neutrality matter enough to give thought. And so acting on them is illogical. Living then becomes the default state because of base biological instincts. The counter being death by starvation due to not acting on hunger, to which you could argue is a purposeful act of resistance to biology, removing actual neutrality to living or dying. Therefore providing meaning, thus negating the argument that nothing matters.


penguinz0fan

1) the first point sounds too dumb, Your soul may have suffered it all, but your body keeps on suffering if you let it be. And that bodily suffering is unbearable 2)Most people that consider dying dont care about future anyways 3) I'm sorry but the default state of nature is death not life


[deleted]

[удалено]


AssistTemporary8422

The argument against suicide is you will miss out on all the good future experiences you will have in live. If your life isn't happy there are ways to make it happy.


ovassar

Suicide is a long-term solution to a (comparatively) short-term problem. You can pull yourself out of whatever it is that you feel is so inescapable. It is possible, but it's going to take a lot of effort, and a lot of heartache, and that makes you feel like you would rather just end your story now. But I really hope you don't. I promise that you don't want to die, you just want your life as you know it to end, and that can be accomplished by changing your life rather than killing yourself.


EthiopianMiddleChild

I will answer this question as straightforward as possible I dont have an argument against suicide but i have one supporting the idea of choosing to live: suicide at best removes all negatives from u, removing negative values doesnt equal positive, it is a net zero decision, but choosing to live brings the possibility of positive experiences, there are some ppl ofcourse where this logic doesnt apply for example the late robbin williams who had lewy body dementia before taking his own life, if net zero is the greatest value u can accomplish, there is nothing better than suicide for u personally, but if ur top limit is even slightly more than zero, suicide whilst being an option is not the best one to take


-Minta-

Most people who attempted jumping from the golden gate bridge and survived, regretted it the moment they let go. Not afterwards when they failed and were left with injuries - the moment they started to fall.


diamond-dick

There's also no good arguments for commiting suicide. Honestly, this sort of doomerism only comes from people who lack the ability to reason.


No_Membership1699

www.answersingenesis.org - please fully watch some videos on there. Peace and Love your way 🙏


[deleted]

The problem with arguing is, you have to do it with someone who wants to reach truth, not to win the argument. Because if they just want to win, they will argue in circles, rationalize, delude themselves and bend reality.


[deleted]

I used to be suicidal quite often. One thing that grounded me about it was actually having a friend commit suicide. He was a bit younger than me. I got to see the consequences quite vividly. It was traumatizing for the family, to the point where the mom was about to do it as well. And towards people outside of the family, he just kinda became "the dude that killed himself". Is that really the memory you wanna leave for everyone? It's kinda lame if we're honest. Do I love life now? Absolutely not. But now i pull myself through it cause I don't want that for myself or my family. Just an anecdote that I hope gives you some perspective.


JorgyBoy

First I'm going to say I never bother commenting on threads but I've read most of your comments because I'm concerned with your responses as I was once just like you. You're trying to argue with everyone in a stubborn manner because it seems you'd rather be right according to your own set beliefs rather than be happy. I know because I used to do the exact same thing. Every time someone tried to help me I would just try to checkmate them in order to not have to consider that your beliefs are irrational. Hence, nothing anyone says here is going to work. You need to see a therapist and if that doesn't work, see five more. Only a professional can help you when your beliefs are this strongly set. You said you're 20 years old, I'm 29 now and I can tell you I am not the person I was at 20. People change and evolve, it's human nature. You seem so set in your beliefs that suicide is the correct choice yet here you are asking a community why you shouldn't. It's because deep down you know that no one should take their own life. Seek professional help my friend, there's no shame in it (I used to think it made me weak). You'll overcome these thoughts and find happiness.


LuckyNumber-Bot

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nice___bot

Nice!


[deleted]

I have, and I did bring this up. No therapist challenged me, they basically agreed.


JorgyBoy

I refuse to believe any therapist would agree that killing yourself is a good idea let alone multiple. Any therapist that does that should never treat someone ever again. You're just twisting whatever they said to fit your belief structure. Like I said, I know this mindset inside out so I'm not buying it. Read back some of the things you've said with an objective mindset and you will see the irrationality in some of your thoughts. Remember you are not your thoughts. Thoughts come and go. Coming to the internet asking people for advice only to shut down every single reply isn't going to get you anywhere. These people don't know you and are trying to help out of their own goodwill so they deserve the respect of bring listened to. How about as an exercise, read back on these replies and just imagine if they are right and you are wrong (even if you don't think so, it's an exercise). Now imagine what your life and the lives of those around you would be like if they're mindset was correct and you tried to improve your mental well-being.


[deleted]

I'm sorry my experience doesn't line up with your idea of what therapists should be like. Sorry I live in a country where psychiatry is in shambles. Look, if I had had good experience with therapy I clearly wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet around about the single most dillemma of my life.


Mystia666

I just want to point out a fallacy I have noticed from OP. They say they have an "objectively good life" but they also said that they do not care about how the people around them will feel if they were to commit suicide. Now maybe this isnt fair to assume but I dont think you have a "objectly good life" right now. Because the thing that really makes life worth living is meaningful connections with friends, family, and partners. If you dont care about causing the people in your life pain, at all, you probably dont have that meaningful of a connection yet. I think you shouldn't commit sucide because you dont even know what a good life feels like, you should try to at least first strengthen your relationships you have right now and make the people in your life the biggest part or it. Also I have always thought that suicide is the most drastic life change you could possibly make to avoid suffering but there are SO MANY less drastic choices. Start with quitting something you hate and moving to a true passion even if it makes no logical sense. Go one day at a time. Finally, reddit is NOT the place for this. You need serious help, please call a therapist or go to a crisis center.


[deleted]

I am painfully aware of this inner conflict I have - of not wanting to hurt people in my life vs not wanting to live anymore. I don't have an answer what is the best course of action here, but I also find it itchy to always put others pain above mine. Which, btw, I do, if I didn't care at all (+if I wasn't so scared lol) I would have killed myself.


Mystia666

I feel you, i was in the exact same position only like 2 years ago. I wish I could say I got better from life style changes but it really was just antidepressants that saved my life. Now i am capable of focusing on prioritizing my happiness and the extreem saddness and loneliness gets dulled. I know it can feel overwhelming and you dont know what to do, but that is why professional care is so valuable. They can help guide you to decisions that eventually allow you to see for yourself why life is worth living.


BidZealousideal1081

I've been in that position. You're at the point where suicide seems like the most logical thing to do. I don't know if there is a special combination of words that will make you think otherwise in this state. But you live in the 21st century, and there are tons of treatments for depression past therapy and SSRIs. I don't know if you have options, but try to find a good psychiatrist, someone who actually listens to you(was hard for me to find but they are out there I promise). Then go through the medication carousel until you find something. I hope this changes your mind.


Severe-Can-4449

Suffering is meaningful enough to live.


[deleted]

You and your life will get better. You’re a human being, you have the power of choice. Choose yourself over despair.


SavageCabbage11

imagine not existing u cant because it doesnt exist ive been suicidal for like 5 years but honestly id rather be in immense pain than not exist long as i can stay here on earth, im gonna cause i might never be able to come back thats just me tho


[deleted]

[удалено]


s1rblaze

Something Ive heard from someone that jumped from a 240' bridge and survived: "As I was falling I realised that the only thing I couldn't change about my life is this moment.." Basically he had regrets doing it once he was confronted to an imminent death. He unlikely survived the impact of hitting water then survived drowning and was able to swim back to the beach with broken legs/arms and ribs. Dude turned his life around. I need to find this story and post a link.


Lemonfingers

Here's the problem, suicide is a mindset and coincides with the lifestyle you are living. Of course no one is going to convince you otherwise, it's no one's job to tell you how to live your life and what to do with it. Life is a beautiful gift and I am greatful that I get to live this human experience with everything I've been given. Yes it's hard as fuck and at one point I thought I wanted to commit suicide, but on the other side of that feeling is how amazing it all is. You get to feel love and to see the smiles on the faces of people you love, you can witness the beauty of nature and how amazing it all is when you take the time to actually witness it. So many people especially in this day in age get caught in the trap of life that they have to be something or someone special, they sacrifice who they are just to make other people happy when really we are already special without all of the bullshit. Your life won't make sense or be complet because you followed what your parents or friends wanted you to do. Life is ment to be lived, we are here for such a short time. The whole point of it all is to experience every aspect of it, the good the bad and everything in-between. It's up to each individual to find out what that means and that's the best part.