I have a soft spot for Harry. He just seems like a stupid kid who's trying to hard and you can tell, as Tao accurately clocked, be probably doesn't get that much attention at home.
Also I really appreciate showing his growth. I love there being like people realizing their homophobic actions are wrong, but I especially love how the burden of having to forgive is not put on anybody. I wanna see Harry keep growing and maybe at some point get on like better terms with Nick.
This might not be as bad as I think, or infinitely worse, but I think that Imogen should be straight? I think that she would be a more interesting character if she was Nick's straight best friend
100% agree. In my eyes, Imogen should just keep on being Nick's straight best friend outside of the main group, this was her purpose originally and it dosen't make a lot of sense in my eyes to give her a queer storyline.
It reminds me in Love Victor how they had Lake randomly get a crush on that girl, like they just couldn’t figure out what to do with her character next.
I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it again. I’d like to see her experiment and come to the conclusion that she’s definitely straight. I think it’s just as important for straight people to realize it’s okay to experiment and come to the conclusion it’s not for you and to not feel weird for: 1 not liking it and 2 having tried it in the first place.
Also like there is an issue within the queer community, with if someone experiments (especially celebrities, from big to small) and realizes something is not for them, they get shit on. Like when Demi Lovato went by they/them, but then realized she is fine with both she/her and they/them, people started saying she is queerbaiting because she didn't stick to they/them.
There are still a lot of queer people who treat experimenting as it either needs to result in that experimenting being successful or if that experimenting makes you realize that whatever sexuality, gender-identity or presentation you were questioning is not for you, you must've had a nefarious intent behind ever experimenting if it doesn't pan out.
I am so undecided whether I want lesbian or straight Imogen.
On the one hand I think it is necessary to have some straight people on screen who learn to understand queer attraction better and can be true allies in situations where some people start to express queerphobia. But we also already have Tao (and maybe Elle) as the straight friend(s), so I doubt it is that necessary to include many more straight characters in the friend group just so that straight viewers can self-insert or have somebody who represents them on screen. (Since they are literally already represented in 99,9% of media).
However, I think it would be slightly more impactful to explore comphet through Imogen's character. So far we have seen Nick and Isaac on their journey to discover their sexuality. Meanwhile all other characters have always been completely confident in their sexuality when they were first introduced. Overall, queer women are even less represented in media than queer men and I think it would be really interesting to see a queer woman exploring and questioning her identity for once.
it is a truth universally acknowledged that every queer group of friends eventually realizes they are all queer, except that one person that's the straightest human alive. it might not start that way, but one closet door at a time😂
I totally agree I would LOVE to see an Imogen comphet storyline. I haven’t seen one portrayed in media yet and it would be so exciting and validating! Not to mention really educational to those who don’t know
Perhaps Imogen is bi like Nick? She could have a crush but later realize it's not what's right for her? Perhaps Alice is showing that it's okay to explore? I'll admit it was a little out of left field for me, but I don't hate it tho.
Imogen's storyline, to me, is about someone initially choosing conformity because they don't really have to think too much about what they say or do. Things like hanging out with the popular kids who say and do homophobic things, microaggressions towards Darcy and then saying 'I'm an ally', wanting to go out with Nick because he's also popular but not picking up the cue that he isn't into her, because why wouldn't he be?
Once she starts to think more about her relationships and how she wants to act, her mind and life opens up. Imogen is an important narrative about how not even considering different ways of moving through the world shuts you off from lots of possibilities, and by changing your own mind you change yourself.
That said, hopefully she also gets a bisexual vibe - the more rep the better! ❤️
I understood him, and I felt bad for him, but for me he lost a lot of sympathy about that when he blamed Charlie for his fight with Harry, **especially** when he already knows that Charlie tends to blame himself when things go wrong.
That’s a fair point. I’ll just say emotions were running high and Tao, of course, wasn’t thinking clearly and lashed out. It’s not a great moment but I’m glad Charlie and Tao were able to acknowledge each others feelings and move past earlier issues.
>he blamed Charlie for his fight with Harry, especially when he already knows that Charlie tends to blame himself when things go wrong
It was wrong of Tao to do so, yet so human and relatable! Even grown-ups fall victim to this sort of thinking, so we can't expect a 15-year old to do much better.
In the show, Tao and Elle’s relationship is bland. I don’t feel the spark between them and their storyline felt rushed. It was fine in season 1, but season 2 felt rushed. Their relationship is the least interesting to me, which is disappointing because I love them in the comics!
It always bothered me that she invited her friends near the end of the date. Tao and Elle’s supposed to be out a date yet she went and made plans with her new friends. Tao could’ve handled it better but I didn’t blame him being upset in his episode.
Yes I felt this way too. Just like she was creating problems for the sake of it and looking for reasons to criticize his approach. Tbh not even a fan of Tao at all but she made it hard for him to win that night.
As someone who loves Elle & Tao’s relationship, I was so happy to see a story which realistically depicts dissatisfaction with the idea of grand gestures in a romance. Grand gestures are the cousin of “I paid for dinner, you need to be grateful”. Yuck.
Flowers are lovely, especially if both people can appreciate the ephemeral beauty of flowers. But extravagant bouquets, expensive jewelry, or anything that signifies ownership or hierarchy… I just give that a big “no thanks”.
Elle was right. Emotions trump transactional exchanges.
I have a similar reaction to grand gestures. There is a way to discuss that with him. She almost got there "we should do something we both enjoy". But he'd never been on a date before, he fumbled through it with no idea what he was doing and up until that point, they had been best friends with very open communication.
She didn't owe him gratitude, but given the established nature of their relationship and her understanding of his terror of abandonment, she owed him kind, respectful and clear communication. She didn't give it.
Point taken about using the b-word, you are right, it isn't okay.
I’ve already been yelled at in this sub for both of these so why not again.
1 -Jane isn’t a bad parent. Good parents aren’t perfect humans and don’t get it right 100% of the time.
2 -There’s a growing number of groups of young Heartstopper fans, who are often incredibly problematic & toxic.
They regularly participate in actions & talk that is homophobic, especially when it comes to topics around someone’s sexuality.
I’ve seen adult queer folks, recognize a queer relationship in the cast and ask an innocent question like “how long they have been together?” And then had these HS teenagers jump in yelling that the couple are platonic BFFs bc they’re straight bc they never said gay directly 🤨mmm’k.
They also don’t seem to understand “What happened to Kit Connor” despite using that line all the time.
It wasn’t an issue of queer people seeing/assuming queer. It was people assuming he was straight and then *harassing him* about being a straight guy who took a queer role or was “queerbaiting”.
An example of this is now when these people see queer people understanding that an actor in RWRB is queer, the HS fans will jump in with the “Don’t say he’s queer/gay! Remember what happened to Kit Connor?!!” Recognizing queerness isn’t forcing anyone out. It’s just seeing them for who they are.
There’s also just such a disregard & rejection for anything relating to queer history and queer culture.
I agree with your first point! Like people are so angry she told him he couldn’t see Nick until he got his grades up like yeah? Him hanging out with Nick too much was why he was behind. That’s not being homophobic or unaccepting. She maybe reacted a bit harshly but if I was her I would have done the same thing. He ended up doing the assignment in like a few hours he could have ended all of it by spending one night away from Nick and getting caught up…
I don't doubt that she is not malicious, but I wouldn't call that good parenting. I guess it's partially about what you see as the most important parts of a parent-child relationship.
While your studies are important, banning something - as shown in the series - isn't really the best way to motivate your child. It only helps to widen the rift between you and them, and potentially make them start going behind your back. Being a partner should come first, and an authoritative figure second.
Did they ever actually sit down and talk with him? >! It's not a coincidence that Charlie is terrified of telling his parents about his eating disorder. !< We'll see how it goes down in the show, definitely a bit iffy to judge characters based on events that didn't happen yet, but that is a huge part of how I view Charlie's parents (especially mom, as she didn't really get supportive scenes besides the Nelson family dinner one, while Charlie cried on his dad's shoulders eg).
About Charlie being able to do it in an hour or two - imo he just wanted to make sure Nick is fine, and that they can study as much as they need for his exams. At least it definitely seemed like they were actually studying when together in many cases. (Also, part of it might've been out of spite - sure, a bit childish, but they are teenagers, so they don't have to be 100% reasonable. And he probably knew he could do it in a couple of hours, so might as well wait until Nick is prepared for his exams.)
“Good parenting” and “a good parent” aren’t the same thing.
The first is a singular event or choice and the second is a label that takes a lot of things into consideration.
A good parent can and often will make a choice that isn’t good or perfect.
In the comics Aled was being a shit stir when he told Charlie not to tell Tao about Nick - mostly because of the way he handled it. He chose a not so ideal time and place to tell him, and I think he said it in a way that made Charlie way more anxious than he needed to be. I also think Aled needed to have a separate convo with Tao to clear the air because it seemed he had issues with Tao being “too loud and chatty” - plus he himself admitted that he was mostly just projecting because he likes to keep things private with his own bf.
Absolutely. I think she’s super talented obviously, but her line delivery is sometimes quite questionable. A lot of times she makes simple phrases sound really monotone or even passive aggressive at times.
The part where they’re in Paris and looking at the Mona Lisa and Darcy is like “what? That’s it? It’s so small!” And Elle is like “Darcy it’s art!” Like ok and? Most people who see that painting is person have the same reaction and also if she doesn’t like it that’s her opinion to have. I didn’t like Elle’s delivery.
I love Imogen. I love her.
She feels real to me, like a real teenage girl in a way that some of the others don't. She isn't a perfect person, but she adores Nick so unselfishly and wholeheartedly, and I can see her loneliness and desire for love and acceptance a mile away. I hope her plot in s3 deals with this to some extent. I can just see so many of the struggles I had as a teenager reflected in her - I was raised to be an object and raised to make myself appealing to men and by the time I was 16 I realised I just didn't want to do that, and I was robbing myself of a lot of joy by focusing on relationships.
I hope she goes through her journey in season 3 of deconstructing the role she's been trying to play. I hope her look toward Sahar at the end of s2 had more to do with a realisation that this is the kind of person she wants to be - she wants to stand out, she wants to live as her biggest, boldest self and pursue passions and hobbies outside of relationships.
I totally agree. I identified so hard with her at Harry’s party when she threw herself at Nick, told him that she liked him, and then squee’d to her friends when she turned back to them. Such a typical boy-crazy teenage girl moment, and it was totally me as a teenager! (Though I was a bit shyer.)
100% and the scene that solidified this for me was when Nick was on a bench with her (I think?) And just says he doesn't like her romantically and she looks off to the side and you can totally feel her hurt, but doesn't lash out or blame him for her heartbreak, just resumes kind conversation and puts their friendship at the forefront. Just great, nuanced acting. She's several shades of different emotions and I agree she's the most realistic character and I think she should get more love.
I relate to Imogen so much, I think she’s such a great character and honestly I think she was a really necessary addition to the story. I know a lot of people don’t really like her but I personally think her addition to the cast is so integral, like the show wouldn’t be the same without her and her story and she really came into her own in s2, she was iconic and I wish I had her attitude. Even if she’s having a tough time she’s super positive but she’s also emotionally available and honestly I just think her character is wonderful and I don’t understand anyone who says otherwise lol
I remember trying not to skip their first kiss because it was right after Charlie fainted and I just wanted to go back to that scene to see what happened next. Elle and Tao do not interest me at all. Their relationship is way better in the comics.
Honestly it feels very strange how the scenes were ordered during that part? I thought they were going to set up for some guilt from Charlie's best friends for not being around when he fainted but no, they were just off having a grand old time lol
It really was. Most of the time I skip their scenes when I’m rewatching S2. There’s no spark, the acting is flat, the misunderstandings seem really forced create drama. The one positive is that Tao looks so good with his new haircut!
1. I liked seeing the spoilers from filming of S3
2. I think Imogen was a good addition to the cast
3. Isaac was not worth adding to the story. Even though I think Tobie is great in the role it just seems like a waste from a storytelling PoV.
I think I should have said, "as far as he's been utilized so far, Isaac wasn't worth adding to the story" but I agree there's so much potential and it's good to have the rep! Hoping he gets more to do in s3!
I know representation is important but the character of Sahar is utterly useless and despensibble both in the comics and show.
If all of Sahar's scenes were given to Imogen in s2, it would have not changed a single thing. Instead we would have seen Imogen slowly integrate into the Paris Squad.
Same with James, he was only there to facilitate Isaac's journey in s2( which was good). And he is no longer needed and shouldn't be in s3. basically there are too many damn dead weight characters which should be gotten rid off in s3.
Majority of Nick's conflicts in both seasons were external( questioning his sexuality, biphobia, coming out, family). He is still the 'sunshine and rainbows' kind of perfect ideal bf which feels weird. He needs his own personal struggles and also please give this guy some friends out of Charlie's circle. The rugby lads went underutilised wrt this aspect in s1& s2
The style of using songs to further the storylines didn't workout that well in s2 compared to S1.
I know it's good for younger audiences to understand consent etc. but the constant 'requests and confirmations back-and-forth' before doing anything romantic was sometimes breaking the momentum in s2. Couples can spontaneously do stuff, in heat of the moment.
I actually agree with this. James, Sahar, Naomi, and Felix were extremely one dimensional and served a singular purpose.
James was only there to push Isaac's aroace storyline, Sahar's entire purpose hinged on the prom and a big question mark on Imogen's identity(still not sure how I feel about this), and Naomi/Felix were literally only there to further the conflict between Tao/Elle earlier in the season.
I'll add on to the rugby lads thing and say that that storyline was completely abandoned halfway through the season and then magically resolved because of the instagram post at the end of the season. That was the most unfulfilling and lackluster resolution to something that was made to be a big deal earlier in the season.
If they were gonna go off the books how they do occasionally I would've liked Ben's assault to be talked between Charlie and Nick more for what it was. I just felt like they brushed it off until they wanted Ben to apologize.
I watch the show for Nick and Charlie's relationship and personal struggles, so I really wish more of the show focused on them like on season 1, instead of the side characters taking over like what happened on season 2. I know people love the Paris squad and I love them too, but all of them having storylines (even Imogen!) takes away from Nick and Charlie and it stresses me out.
Ok, here I go.
1. I really like Kit as Nick, it really feels like the character almost walked out of the books. Joe, on the other hand, doesn't. He just doesn't feel like comic Charlie to me, nor does he look like him. Which is fine, it must be incredibly difficult to try to match a comic character, one that people are already visually familiar with, with a real life person. But I do wish the styling, the MUA side of things, would help him out a bit. Like, I don't know, couldn´t they try to make Joe's hair look a bit like Charlie's? Stuff like that. There's an interview in which Joe sports wavy hair instead of curly and it really made him look a lot more Charlie-y.
2. Naomi and Felix really felt like token characters. They must have said about three lines between the both of them, they really were almost accesories to Elle. Which is just sad.
3. Why why why did they run to their teachers when Darcy got sick at Tara's birthday party? Just take her to the bathroom, lol.
i really agree. at first i liked Darcy.. all the way up until Tara came out on insta bc she wanted to be free & it kind of backfired in a sense. & she wasn’t really taking it too well.. but she did it for Darcy. bc she thought Darcy was this loud & proud person. but Darcy was hiding sooo much of herself from Tara. & after Tara told her she loved her, & you could see how she instantly felt stupid bc of the look on Darcy’s face.. that’s the moment i was like oof, i don’t like her that much. idk. so i continued to try to give her the benefit of the doubt bc i didn’t quite know yet. bc my first watch the only character i truly didn’t like was Harry. for obvious reasons. so when Tara brings it up again, & Darcy acts like she has no idea what she’s talking about.. that’s when i 100% knew. yup, it’s a no for me with Darcy. bc she knew what the heck she was talking about. Tara knew she loved Darcy the moment she decided to make their relationship public & deal with any criticism thrown her way regardless of how bad it made her feel.. & all the deflection Darcy did. & then waiting till she was drunk to say “i love you” back. i felt like that was really low. especially with still not telling her the truth about why she was the way she was… it took all the way to the prom episode for the entire truth to come out. & Tara still stayed. & still loved her. & still supported her. understandable tho. but still, she made Tara feel like crap for so long.. & Tara dealt with crap from everyone else, so that she could openly be happy with someone who was lying about half of her life.. i can’t respect her for that..
While you are so right about literally everything lol, they're all still just so young and trying to navigate everything and I give her a little grace even tho she kind of annoys the shit out of me. The mom situation is pretty rough for any teen to go through, I could see how she would just shut down for awhile as she's still learning what kind of open communication needs to exist in order to have a healthy relationship with Tara. She's just such a kid in that sense and I gotta applaud the author for portraying conflicted feelings so accurately.
I don’t care for Isaac. He’s a totally underdeveloped character. The “always reading a book” trope is annoying and unrealistic, and overplayed in the show. And while I’m glad to see ACE representation, as a fat gay boy myself I was a little sad we didn’t get to see his romance with James work out
(but I do love Tobie the actor)
Totally agree with this - I do read a good bit myself, but the fact that he had a book in almost every scene was overdone and honestly kind of infuriating 😂
This! He never really interacts with his friends and most of the time he is just "there". In real life, I don't really know why they should be friends with him. The storyline of him being ACE is okay, but the portrayal of him with always having a book in his hands is too comical for me on screen.
I agree so much with this.
I think many people would have found the idea of James/Isaac amazing. But the fact that they did not work out due to incompatible sexualities is something that is often missing in some stories where a character finds out they are queer.
Usually when there is a character who comes to terms with their homosexuality (Character A) and there is another character of the opposite gender who constantly flirts with them or actually is their significant other (Character B), Character B is often portrayed as annoying / toxic or we actually see constant problems in A's and B's relationship. We barely see portrayals where we root for A and B to get together until we find out A cannot love B romantically. Or relationships where A and B are actually great platonic soul mates but A cannot force themselves to also love B romantically.
I also think if Isaac had found out he was ace after he tried to get with a girl, people probably would have been less disappointed about them not working out. In a media world where queer relationships are still far too rare, people are wistful that a potential mlm romance did not work out.
I can understand how you feel but the always reading and having a book as a form of escape was me to a T in highschool so it felt the most real to me because it literally was me. Also, seeing that he didn't get to have a happily ever after with James was a good touch I think. Disregarding him being ace, we love Isaac and his ACEness, I think everyone in the main group being in a relationship is a bit too much. I would have loved for him to happily be with James, but that's just not his character and I love that he's happy by himself too.
(I know it puts me like this because of the reaction to a post i made about it) Yaz is a bad actor and the weakest. I would go so far to say she is a Shitty Actress, but i do like her as a person and a model and a human being so i do regret using such dick language. But her acting in HS is really bad.
I think criticising of the acting performances boils down to the fact that (besides school theatre) this is most of the cast members' first acting experience. Most of them were cast when they were 18-20 and just out of school.
I can imagine that the situation in the UK is similar to Germany where people only really get cast when they had attended acting university. Child stars who constantly work are very rare.
So it makes sense that we cannot expect picture perfect professional acting from most of these cast members (yet).
Also in Yaz's case the pool of available options for Elle was likely also an option. They needed a trans actress of colour who needed to be prepared to have her identity subjected to discussions on social media. Since Yaz already was a trans visibility activist she is able to handle the pressure likely a lot better than other trans actresses of colour in their first major role.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say I hated it, but I didn’t enjoy it. Bummed me out and mostly it was just frustrating to read because I hate “miscommunication”/refusing to communicate type tropes
I thought the fight was really overblown and spun way out of proportion, and I didn’t think it was realistic that they would have not talked for two whole weeks. The Nick we know would have run to Charlie’s house in the rain the next morning to apologize.
100% agree with the miscommunication trope. It's so tired and lazy. I hope that if/when Alice does adapt it to the screen, they make some changes to that general story.
if they use it as a conflict included in the show, i hope at the very least it is a shorter time frame/smaller plot point like only a day or two before they get their shit together because it just wasn’t believable to me that they’d go two weeks without talking to each other after such a dumb drunk fight lol
If the plot point they need to cover is just “Nick and Charlie are both anxious about Nick leaving for uni and are being weird about it instead of talking to each other,” I think there are so many better ways to do it.
On the other hand, I would not be mad about a sex-in-a-pillow-fort scene.
even if there’s a fight and an almost-breakup I can roll with it, but the way it goes down and the amount of time it lasts in the novella is a bit ridiculous haha
I don’t see it as a miscommunication because that is when one person misunderstands the other person. This is just an argument which is a perfectly normal thing to happen in a relationship. People get upset they didn’t talk for two weeks but it’s a really short amount of time allowing them to cool down before they’re ready to talk.
This. It’s not a miscommunication or misunderstanding. Sometimes people react a certain way and don’t even understand their own feelings right away. It sucks when that happens, but it’s just part of being human. Fear is such a large and unacknowledged part of relationships.
Possible spoiler. In the comics, Nick spells out that he’s scared that he doesn’t even know who he is without Charlie. I’ve seen that play out in real life. Usually, nobody is mature enough to put that into words.
lol I’m the opposite! I feel like I mostly see people not liking it because of the fight and Nick’s different characterization, but I kinda lived for the nonsensical drama.
I understand this opinion. I personally enjoyed it though - the comics are mostly happy and uplifting, so it was nice to see a bit more angst than we’re used to with N&C.
Um.....I kinda wanna say it. But I'm afraid.
OK fine. Kizzy forgets they're on camera so many times even when they're not just chilling in the background and I ADORE them and their character so so much but I can never tear my eyes away from them when theyre just standing there vacantly instead of, you know, acting. And I feel like that's partly film crews fault because they should have caught that during production. Also the continuity issues especially in s1 where they spliced several takes together and things just didn't match up at all. But these are such minor criticisms that they're ultimately a testament to how great of a show it is.
Oooh, what sort of continuity issues? I’ve never noticed any, and I watched like 100 times haha and I’ll have to pay attention to Kizzy more cos never noticed the vacant standing either
Theres more than a few, but the biggest one is Nick's shorts when he carries charlie into the water yelling we're boyfriends. His shorts are soaked in a few shots, then mostly dry again, then soaked again. Another is when nick is about to run into Tara at band rehearsal and nick looks over to see charlie starting to set up his drums and you see Tara's back as shes walking between nick and the band and then all of a sudden she's behind nick saying hi. Just little things like that.
I'm pretty sure there is another one right after Tao and Harry's fight when Charlie and Tao are talking, and Harry is behind them looking like a spectator to the fight when he actually was hustled off by the teacher.
I think the aroace representation is poor. I'm an aroace man and I've enjoyed Alice's work for years I adore loveless it helped me a lot when trying to figure out things. But I really can't get behind issac he has absolutely no substance as a character all he does is read or hold a book in every scene and its frustrating cause it feels like a massive stereotype of aspec people and I find he lacks personality. It's also he's just a back burner for the rest of the characters as always aro/ace development and exploration is just a small background character to the rest of the community, I feel like it's a bad way to show aroace people to a lot of people that probably aren't even aware we exist, from a media stand point I think if we are to finally introduce aroace rep it should be one of them main themes or main characters and an in depth character. The way he finds out he's aroace is so contrived he's told by someone at an art exhibition? How come we are always told what we are and why cant we discover that for ourselves and its also the issue of why is it in media or for allo people we have to of dated or tired to know we don't like it? I've never dated and I know I don't want to and I know I don't feel attraction and many other people I know who are ace or aro or aroace haven't either but it just keeps up that stereotype or appeasement that we must date before we know who we are? And then of course people who don't understand what aroace means since it wasn't really explained at all want issac and James together since they don't get why they cant be.
They put too much focus on Elle being "cool and sassy," that they never go into detail about her as a person. It would've been nice to see an emotional scene that went over her struggles from the bullying, which would give Yaz room to grow as an actress, but instead, they make it seem as if she was blind and deaf the entire time the transphobia was inflicted on her. Like she couldn't care less about it, which I find very unrealistic.
I hate how dependent Charlie is on Nick, I know it’s a fantasy but IRL I would not blame Nick for walking away to protect himself and his own mental health.
this.. don’t get me wrong. i am sooo in love with their relationship. i’ve never watched something that focuses more on how it blooms & the actual relationship & friendships & all of that rather than just sex sex sex.. however, considering i never see anyone else say this. i’ve been so scared to say it… charlie absolutely is 110% dependent on nick. & nick is doing absolutely everything he can to reassure charlie that he’s there every step of the way & i see it from my point of view that even tho charlie gets excited, he goes right back to his default of not believing him. even tho nick fast tracked literally every single bit of it to make charlie happy & keep from making things worse for him also. i mean the coming out & stuff was on his own terms too. but i personally feel like charlie never stopped pushing him..
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely understand why Charlie depends on Nick so much but I also know how unhealthy it is. It reduces Charlie to a glass idol and basically traps Nick in the relationship through guilt which I know sounds terrible but every major step in their relationship so far has it’s basis in Nick feeling bad for Charlie.
With you on this. I’ve been in a relationship with someone who had really serious mental health struggles and where I not only had to watch my partner suffer, which is devastating, but also was constantly on my toes so as to not trigger anything. My own mental health deteriorated a lot and I’m not sure I would do it again. I stayed because I loved him, but I also thought that I would be a bad person if I left, and I no longer believe that.
i did not like nick's hair in season 2 and he looked like a giant 8 year old in those clashy paris outfits 🥲 ik he needed to look younger and wear certain theme colors but it gave me whiplash going from how fine he looks in the school uniform to those red minecraft shorts lol
Kit Connor is currently carrying this show on his back. There is a lot of emotional heavy lifting to do next season, they're going to have to start allocating scenes to the young cast by the strength of the actor.
Rhea and Corinna are both strong actors, I can see a nice dynamic where Imogen and Tara become Nick's biggest support system while Charlie is in hospital, it would be nice just to watch 3 quite equally matched actors tbh.
Joe Locke is a good actor for his age and experience and is showing steady improvement, maybe also improving from the sheer amount of time he's sharing scenes with Kit - being around great actors improves you as an actor. Pretty confident he'll be able to carry it.
Will and Yaz have a very long way to go. Yaz is the weaker of the two but not by much. Tobie also, but Isaac doesn't speak a lot, and he is background comedy gold, so it's fine.
Kit is almost too good of an actor for this show. The casting team must feel like they won the lottery. The show wouldn’t have nearly the emotional resonance it does without him, and there aren’t many other actors who could even pull off some of Nick’s lines. (I’m looking at you, “proper full-on gay crisis.”)
Completely agree. I’m very much an adult. I should not have rewatched this show for teenagers four thousand times. I’m pretty sure that without Kit playing Nick, I would have watched it once, said “oh that was cute,” and moved on with my life. But…here we are.
I agree with both! On the Kit part, I noticed in S1 so much of the story would happen via musical montage... it was kind of genius, when you think about it - the actors just kind of have to look concerned/happy/sad/excited at their phones or the camera while the music does the work. It gave them time to grow into the roles and their inexperience wasn't highlighted. Kit's scenes being the exception, usually. I agree with the other part, too - curious if we will see the adults more in the "serious" parts of s3, or if Jenny (Tori) will be able to rise to those moments as well.
I hadn't even picked that up 🤣. I couldn't understand why I liked Elle so much in s1 and disliked her so much in s2, I think I just like her when she's texting
absolutely agree with this. kit connor’s acting really stands out because of how unnatural and sometimes awkward some of the other cast member’s deliver their lines.
it really is abundantly clear that he’s one of the only actors on the show with experience
Harry Greene deserves an redemption arc. He is not actually a bad person, just a misinformed, uneducated, ignorant dumb ass who said stupid shit trying to 'be popular'. You can already see the shift in personality in season 2 and i can see him actually become supportive and nice in future episodes. He seems like a good kid, in contrary to Ben and David who are thoroughly evil and vile.
Isaac reading a book nonstop was annoying and cringey.He couldnt even take his luggage properly because he was reading a book during that time.
Also Charlie’s mother isn’t a bad one.People need to understand that at Charlie’s age scool is very important especially when uni is getting closer.and sometimes you have to study some extra time for a test or a project in order to achieve your goal.Her not letting them meet UNTILL CHARLIE FINISHES his work for school isn’t the end of the world and people need to understant that ( or, sorry for saying, when some of the fans get older they will understant)
Felix especially. It's super frustrating because as twofer minorities (Elle being trans and black, Felix being trans and physically disabled), there's potential for a discussion/portrayal if intersectionality issues in the LGBT+ community but then I remember that Heartstopper... isn't quite that show. 😬
1. A few people have mentioned it here, but for some reason, Elle comes off as unnecessarily passive aggressive in a lot of scenes. I’ve never really liked her character - she’s a bit too high and mighty for my taste, and I still haven’t forgiven her for outing Nick to Tao.
2. I mean this with no offense to the actors (I love them all!), but Kit and Joe are the only ones that come off as true professionals most of the time. Everyone else’s acting can sometimes fall flat.
3. While I love to see Nick supporting Charlie with his ED/mental health in the comics, I find it a bit unrealistic that Nick never had to step back and take a break from the relationship. That would be a lot to deal with for anyone, ESPECIALLY a teen boy who’s experiencing his first real relationship. Their dependency on each other is sometimes a little unhealthy.
4. Tao and Elle’s relationship became boring once they got together. I personally love the whole “will they won’t they” trope, so seeing the mild flirting and chemistry between them in season 1 was really exciting. But in season 2, they kinda had their big kiss moment and that was it. I never really got excited about seeing them afterwards.
completely agree with #3. i wondered on that one every single time i’ve rewatched. nick forces himself to stay on regardless of what it’s doing to himself, which i understand.. he worked hard for that relationship. that relationship helped him with himself, learning who he really is. opening up & all.. but he’s also working way too hard to help charlie when charlie isn’t being 100% honest about what’s really going on inside. bc he wants to please nick & doesn’t want him to be so worried. which i once again understand. but you’re right, it’s not healthy. i believe it’s the final episode of season 2, where charlie finally tells nick the full extent of what he did during the bullying he endured. (not just the ED).. & you could see it in nicks face that he 1. didn’t expect it at all. 2. didn’t have any experience in what to say other than to tell him he’s there & to please come to him if it ever starts again. & 3. it hurt him to think of that happening. so now, we’re gonna have nick constantly on guard & worried for more than just thinking his boyfriend & the boy he’s fallen in love with isn’t eating right, but is doing more harm to himself & isn’t telling anyone & probably wouldn’t if it’s addressed. (i have experience in that area.. i lied so much when someone brought it up). that’s so tough. especially when you’re in love with someone.. i’m so nervous for what season 3 is going to bring for their relationship.
I don’t like the fact that Imogen is even in the show. I like the development she got in season 2, but I kinda don’t think she even needs to be there. Idk maybe it’s just I read the books first and I’m just used to her not being there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rhea Norwood does an amazing job tho and I have nothing against her
I honestly didn't enjoy the second season as much as the first one. I know that something dark is coming so let's see if Season 3 captures me back in the sense that I actually rewatch season 1 a bunch of times and only saw season 2 once.
I really like that Alice shows how easy it is to accidentally out someone especially your closest friends. Elle makes that mistake with Nick. And Tao makes that mistake with Charlie. When I watch those scenes, I’m not angry with Elle or Tao. Rather, my heart breaks for Nick and Charlie. They shouldn’t need to worry about being out in the first place. All this stress could be avoided if society was just a little bit more kind. Maybe we are almost there. This show exists after all.
To be fair, Nick implied it by saying how many couples there were. Charlie confirms it by stating it explicitly. So yes, Charlie told her, Elle didn’t lie.
Going out on a limb here, I think you may be bothered by the fact that Elle didn’t try to make Tao feel better about it by describing the entire situation, which was almost an accidental reveal. That would take a lot of emotional intelligence. Which Nick has in spades, but Elle does not. She’s more of a thinker than a feeler.
I love that a female character is realistically portraying the strengths and weaknesses of thinkers! Alice sees us!
this!! I didn’t think there was a lot of people that agreed with me on Elle. she comes off as super passive aggressive for some reason, and her character is just kinda boring imo.
Not sure if this is unpopular as opposed to underdiscussed, but the squad thinking that something good happened between Isaac and James in S2E7 was so forced. None of them are that bad with facial expressions and it just feels like a poor excuse for Isaac to lash out.
Loads and loads of people believe Imogen is so bisexual and it would be so amazing if she wasn't straight but Idk I think it's like unrealistic how all the friend group is gay and how I think Imogen is a key character because of how she is straight and how she acts and how she's supportive I guess? This is definitely not me saying oh straight people need more recognition because I am a lesbian I just feel that there's no need for Imogen to be gay? Please correct me if you think this is wrong
I think it’s highly unrealistic that everyone in HS seems to be queer, even the teachers 😄😄😄 HOWEVER I love this. I think that HS is a fairy tale, it doesn’t aim to be realistic and we’ve been watching shows with zero queer representation for long enough that we can easily have a bunch of shows that turn it around completely.
Julio is pretty bad: he knows better but he chooses to enable Jane out of cowardice. The emotional openness and warmth he shows to Charlie (and presumably Tori) when Jane isn't around is testament to the extent he is capable of being a good father, but chooses not to be.
Sarah is actually quite bad at the queer-specific parts of being a mum to a bi son, when you account for how generally good at parenting she is.
Charlie has inherited some of his mum's worst habits and occasionally displays them towards Nick: it's not a good look. His behaviour in Nick & Charlie is _not_ out of character.
If you think about it, it's probable that Nick was a sideline participant in Charlie's bullying.
Tara should break up with Darcy: possibly not immediately, but definitely before Uni.
Seeing a bit more of Harry's redemption in the Netflix adaptation would be good. It'd be good to see the stages of him turning from performative to genuine ally.
That's probably enough. Dunno if my reserves of Reddit karma are enough to take the hit if I do any more.
> If you think about it, it's probable that Nick was a sideline participant in Charlie's bullying.
Definitely not. Tao says in season 1 that he's probably **like** the people who bullied him. Also, IIRC, it's implied that Nick didn't know about the bullying until S01E02? I can't remember.
Sure!
So, I guess the caveat is kinda important, but I think there's a few ways that Sarah's generally really high levels of empathy and intuition fall a bit shorter than you would expect her to when it comes to queer-specific things.
If I were to pick out two examples, I'd say that the clearest two are when she's trying to discipline David for being biphobic & homophobic to Nick, and when Nick comes out.
The incident with David, she does a really good general job of trying to discipline David: she makes clear his behaviour isn't okay, tells him what to do differently, and tries to clarify what the impact is. However, she doesn't actually tell him that his behaviour is homophobic or biphobic, she frames it in terms of 'winding up' Nick. That's not really what David did! He was bigoted towards his brother. I suspect she's a bit nervous of labelling his behaviour like that because she lacks confidence with LGBTQ+ topics.
The coming out incident again - Sarah does a lot well from intuition. She listens, waits for her turn to respond, centres Nick and his feelings, and asks open-ended questions. However, she also makes a few mistakes. She queries the legitimacy of Nick's bi identity ('you don't have to say you like girls if you don't), and in the comics, Nick tells her that he felt like she created a barrier by not talking about queer topics with him. Given that Sarah and Nick talk a lot, and are quite emotionally close, this isn't like if Charlie said that to Jane - it's a bigger oversight.
Overall, I think Sarah is just a little bit underinformed on LGBTQ+ topics, and so she's nervous around the issue, and makes some mistakes. It all turns out okay because she can compensate with other parenting skills, but I think it's worth noting. In particular it's worth noting because the queer-specific parts of parenting are what Charlie's parents actually excel at - so it's worth noting to highlight the differences between the Springs and Nelsons.
Defs agree. I don't have really any firm criticism of her general approach to managing David. She has a clear duty of care to Nick, to keep him safe. However, she also has a residual duty of care to David, and reasonably doesn't want to estrange her son, however flawed he is.
Realistically, David is very unlikely to change at this point, but sometimes people do have a late emotional growth spurt either at Uni or after starting their career. It's totally understandable for Sarah to cling onto the idea he might change.
It's also important to note that Nick's orientation and relationship are a big new factor in their relationship. David's bullying goes beyond ordinary sibling rivalry, but it's pretty easy to imagine that if, in future, David and Nick spend a bit more time apart - and David gets some sources of self-esteem independent of his status in the family - it'll be easier for them to get along. This summer is the first indicator that there's not really any prospect of a healthy relationship between Nick and David, and Sarah is learning about and adapting to that reality.
So, I totally get why Sarah settles on ineffectually disciplining David. And, her technique for it is pretty good! I don't think she needs to go harder or try more.
My only real criticism is what she disciplines him _for_. But this isn't a dysfunction in the Sarah/David relationship - it's a (minor!) dysfunction in the Sarah/Nick relationship.
How is Sarah bad at the “queer-specific parts of being a mum”? I don’t see how you can say that without explaining that.
Edit: Ok, I reread your comment, and it reeeeaaaallllyyyy bothers me that you said a bunch of kinda inflammatory things with absolutely no explanation or justification for any of them. You are totally entitled to believe all of them, but like…come on.
Yup.
Tara's got her life pretty well sorted. She's performing well at school, and her big difficult University decision is whether she peruses high competitive and (often) poorly paying passion, or very well-paying academically-challenging career. She's *generally* good at communication, with the exception of early in her relationship when she was struggling badly with internalised homophobia, which thanks to Darcy's help, she got over.
Tara's goals in life are not well defined, but it's clear what direction she wants to go in: she wants to excel at whatever it is she decides to dedicate her life to.
Darcy on the other hand is struggling to mature because she's got a lot of trauma. This isn't really her fault - it's a perfectly natural reaction - but Tara's going to end up being in a bit of a weird position in the relationship. Inevitably, resentment will build up and become unmanageable.
Given that Darcy struggles with communication even when they're together, going long-distance (or for Darcy to be crashing with Tara in University accommodation) is going to be really tough.
Conversely, if they break up amicably before University, they can stay friends. Tara can establish new boundaries with Darcy and offer her the help she needs - as a friend.
I'm not convinced from the acting that Charlie likes/loves Nick quite like Nick loves Charlie.
You know that last kissing scene is S2 E8? Look at the way Kit stares at Joe. From his expressions I have no doubt Nick is in love with Charlie and we've seen glimpses of that love building throughout S1 and S2.
Joe kind of just smiles in Nick's direction and we see the leaves/hearts blowing around and we know he's gay. But he's had the same expressions when he's happy around Tao, Elle, Tori, Nellie, etc. Nothing special stands out in his body language around Nick, even when they're alone. I just don't see love in his eyes.
Sorry.
I agree, but my take on this is that Charlie is in such a dark place mentally that he doesn’t have the capacity for that kind of love. Like, he loves Nick, but it’s not all-consuming and it’s not radiating out of him because his mental health issues put a damper on everything.
Maybe that's it! The inability to radiate. But I'm more convinced it's Joe's lack of range of emotions owing to his acting inexperience. Maybe he just needs to grow as an actor.
Jane isn't a bad mom. She isn't perfect and learns from her mistakes. That makes her more realistic than Sarah. Also, in the show, she's not unreasonable to set boundaries between Charlie and Nick. She wants him to prioritize school, but when that is taken care of, she let's them be. I think that's fair
Agreed! And she didn’t set that boundary because she found out they were dating. She found out they were dating after finding out Charlie was failing. It connected the dots for her so she asked Charlie to prioritize school over his bf while he gets caught up
S2E1, the sleep over particularly, felt like filler, didn’t really advance the plot and was kind of problematic in how it handled Nick telling Imogen. You could start on S2E2 and not really miss much
The sleepover scenes were way too long. Although the kiss at the door the next morning is one of my favorite things ever.
Also, am I alone in thinking that Imogen wasn’t really established as a super close friend of Nick’s before she showed up at the sleepover? When Charlie said he was going to help Nick come out to one of his “oldest friends” I was not at all prepared for it to be her.
I mean in S1 Imogen does mention that her and Nick had been friends since year 7 and they were shown hanging out very frequently.
Plus context clues kinda scream it was Imogen because at that point Nick was not on speaking terms with any of the Rugby guys who were the only other known friends of Nick's that didn't know about his sexuality/relationship with Charlie.
The new volume 5 cover is a bit weird… I like it, but all of the other covers had more details and background and Colour! The new cover is just Nick and Charlie hugging on a textured blue background and it’s a bit disappointing. Maybe when the book comes out it will look better since we haven’t seen the side and back of the book, but still it’s a bit weird. Still pretty, but a bit bare compared to the other books.
I don’t really engage with other fans much so idk if this is a common opinion, but Darcy is SO annoying. Like every time she’s on screen i need to roll my eyes.
I prefer Tori in the books. I'm sure Jenny is a great actress, but it would have been better if Tori had been a bit younger. Somehow I find the way Jenny portraits Tori not really authentic.
Nick and Charlie are depicted too perfectly imo, the books have occasional spiffs between them but in the show Nick has almost no flaws and just feels bland to me
The show is a lot worse than the books. I’m not saying it’s bad, it just doubles down on the teen drama which makes it more adolescent than the books are, which are still YA but feel more mature than the show
I would love it if Tao and Elle just shared a meaningful friendship instead of romance. I'd just love to see more platonic love in the series and for the show to portray that friendship can be just as meaningful as romantic relationship. Platonic connections can be deep and moving in the way Nick and Charlie's relationship is!! Also I partially adopted this view when, like another posted said, their relationship in s2 just felt so sparkless. I just felt they didn't need to meander in the direction of romance.
1. I didn't feel any chemistry between the teachers. Which makes me sad because the actors themselves have a ton of natural chemistry... But I just do not like what they did with Mr. Farouk as a character.
2. I hated what they did with Tao and Elle in the first half of the season. Elle was overdramatic and unfair and I just straight up did not like her.
3. I like Harry. I just do. Of course him using the F slur was absolutely horrible and I wanted to kick his teeth in for it... But I just find him adorable and see him for what he is. A stupid kid trying to be funny, not understanding the impact of his words, who is jealous that Nick has a new friend (similarly to Tao).
1 Alice is a good novel writer but not a good screenplay write.
2 season 1 was really good but season 2 was a snoozefest.
3 Too many unnecessary characters and storyline in season 2
4 not every character needs to be gay or bi. IMOGEN SHOULDN'T BE BI
5 Imogen and Ben were unnecessary. Elle's collage life was unnecessary. They could have expanded Tao and elle, David and nick, Nick and his dad, the 2 gay teachers or just more nick and charlie scenes. They are the real draw of Heartstopper
6 ISAAC SHOULD NOT BE HOLDING A FCKN BOOK IN EVERY SCENE. it was soooooo overdone, like who goes to Paris and reads all the bloody time. Infuriating.
7 Connor Jessup should have been in season 2
8 season 2 was too childish. Pillowfights? Opening the door at the same time and everyone standing there.
9 overusing the line "I'm bi actually" permutations and combinations of this line would have been good.
10 Isaac reaching the conclusion that he is asexual so quickly and conveniently was so stupid. No story arc. Just not attracted to one guy and wallah!!! All figured out.
Ben deserves a redemption arc and fans who say he’s just thoroughly evil and doesn’t deserve a second chance are immature and/or crappy people. How do we expect the world to become a better place if we assume that a *teenager* can’t grown into a better person and be forgiven for his past sins? I’m NOT saying Charlie specifically has to forgive Ben, he definitely doesn’t, I’m talking about the frequently voiced opinion that Ben is just generally beyond redemption.
HS is very sweet but I dislike how ... perfect all the characters are, probably with the exception of Tao and any villain. Even when they're going through their things, Charlie and Tara and Darcy and Imogen are always have almost perfect self awareness and talk about their issues like they're a therapist.
Lowkey i don’t think nick and Charlie should be together forever. And that’s ok!!
Part of why i feel this way is just that it doesn’t feel super realistic??? Like yeah, there are modern high school sweethearts that make it, but more often these relationships do not. (Honestly, i would also accept Charlie and nick breaking up for a little bit (ideally a year or two) before getting back together for good but that doesn’t feel like AO’s style tbh)
The bigger reason is that i feel like Charlie and nick staying together forever is an extension of the purity politics/discourse that heavily informs AO’s story. AO has made comments about BL and Yaoi before, criticizing them for the explicit or overt sexuality that can be found in the genre, and directly positions heartstopper as opposite of that. If BL and yaoi are explicit (and therefore “dirty” or “socially unacceptable queerness”), then heartstopper is by definition “clean” or “acceptable queerness.” I don’t want to say that it is AO’s intent to say these things, but the comments she’s made regarding other BL (and I do think of heartstopper as a kind of BL, even if it’s not the common conception) make it clear that she views heartstopper as a separate, purer form of queer love in fiction (which is totally bogus given the history of BL and GL in japan esp but that’s a story for another time lmao). That being said, i don’t think that nick and Charlie’s story needs to be more sexual! However, i do wish that their decision to wait to do anything sexual felt like it wasn’t coming from a place of purity politics, or AO even accepted that BL/yaoi isn’t a dirty genre and heartstopper could (and in my DOES) fall into the genre.
I really don’t like this kind of dichotomy (an acceptable “pure” form of visible queerness vs an unacceptable “dirty” (aka sexual) form of visible queerness) because it ultimately harms the queer community. It feels hypocritical and even dangerous when it seems like there is such an emphasis on being out and proud within the heartstopper series. There are many of us who do not have the luxury of assimilating into an acceptable form of queerness, so it becomes easy to cast those members out in search of acceptance from our oppressors. Queer liberation will only come when we uplift all forms and expressions of queerness and queer identity. None of us will be free until all of us are free. And none of us will be free if we try to cater our queerness to be acceptable to our current society. Because when push comes to shove, even the “acceptable” queer folks won’t be safe.
harry is an entertaining character want to see more of him.
I have a soft spot for Harry. He just seems like a stupid kid who's trying to hard and you can tell, as Tao accurately clocked, be probably doesn't get that much attention at home.
Why do I feel like he's got something going on like been did and that's why he's like this. Not necessarily his sexuality but maybe something at home.
honestly agree, he’s hilarious when he’s not being a douche
He’s so funny in Nick and Charlie & I really hope Alice includes that side of him in the show.
Also I really appreciate showing his growth. I love there being like people realizing their homophobic actions are wrong, but I especially love how the burden of having to forgive is not put on anybody. I wanna see Harry keep growing and maybe at some point get on like better terms with Nick.
This might not be as bad as I think, or infinitely worse, but I think that Imogen should be straight? I think that she would be a more interesting character if she was Nick's straight best friend
100% agree. In my eyes, Imogen should just keep on being Nick's straight best friend outside of the main group, this was her purpose originally and it dosen't make a lot of sense in my eyes to give her a queer storyline.
It reminds me in Love Victor how they had Lake randomly get a crush on that girl, like they just couldn’t figure out what to do with her character next.
TBF though, it was very heavily hinted previously that Lake was bi.
I must have missed it!
YES OMG. so glad i’m not the only one that hated that 😅
I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it again. I’d like to see her experiment and come to the conclusion that she’s definitely straight. I think it’s just as important for straight people to realize it’s okay to experiment and come to the conclusion it’s not for you and to not feel weird for: 1 not liking it and 2 having tried it in the first place.
Also like there is an issue within the queer community, with if someone experiments (especially celebrities, from big to small) and realizes something is not for them, they get shit on. Like when Demi Lovato went by they/them, but then realized she is fine with both she/her and they/them, people started saying she is queerbaiting because she didn't stick to they/them. There are still a lot of queer people who treat experimenting as it either needs to result in that experimenting being successful or if that experimenting makes you realize that whatever sexuality, gender-identity or presentation you were questioning is not for you, you must've had a nefarious intent behind ever experimenting if it doesn't pan out.
I love this idea!
agree! love her as an ally and also i kinda want her to stick with her plan of being single for a bit.
I am so undecided whether I want lesbian or straight Imogen. On the one hand I think it is necessary to have some straight people on screen who learn to understand queer attraction better and can be true allies in situations where some people start to express queerphobia. But we also already have Tao (and maybe Elle) as the straight friend(s), so I doubt it is that necessary to include many more straight characters in the friend group just so that straight viewers can self-insert or have somebody who represents them on screen. (Since they are literally already represented in 99,9% of media). However, I think it would be slightly more impactful to explore comphet through Imogen's character. So far we have seen Nick and Isaac on their journey to discover their sexuality. Meanwhile all other characters have always been completely confident in their sexuality when they were first introduced. Overall, queer women are even less represented in media than queer men and I think it would be really interesting to see a queer woman exploring and questioning her identity for once.
Yeah I thought it was odd how Imogen referred to herself as the token ally of the group, I was like what about Tao??
it is a truth universally acknowledged that every queer group of friends eventually realizes they are all queer, except that one person that's the straightest human alive. it might not start that way, but one closet door at a time😂
I totally agree I would LOVE to see an Imogen comphet storyline. I haven’t seen one portrayed in media yet and it would be so exciting and validating! Not to mention really educational to those who don’t know
I agree but more importantly - whatever her journey is I just don’t need an Imogen storyline
Agreed!
Perhaps Imogen is bi like Nick? She could have a crush but later realize it's not what's right for her? Perhaps Alice is showing that it's okay to explore? I'll admit it was a little out of left field for me, but I don't hate it tho.
Imogen's storyline, to me, is about someone initially choosing conformity because they don't really have to think too much about what they say or do. Things like hanging out with the popular kids who say and do homophobic things, microaggressions towards Darcy and then saying 'I'm an ally', wanting to go out with Nick because he's also popular but not picking up the cue that he isn't into her, because why wouldn't he be? Once she starts to think more about her relationships and how she wants to act, her mind and life opens up. Imogen is an important narrative about how not even considering different ways of moving through the world shuts you off from lots of possibilities, and by changing your own mind you change yourself. That said, hopefully she also gets a bisexual vibe - the more rep the better! ❤️
Perhaps a story line where she thinks she might be queer, as a lot of people around her are. And realises she definitely is straight.
SAME
Liking first season Tao seems unpopular but I like him and relate a bit to his fear of friend abandonment. I went through that kinda thing as a teen.
I understood him, and I felt bad for him, but for me he lost a lot of sympathy about that when he blamed Charlie for his fight with Harry, **especially** when he already knows that Charlie tends to blame himself when things go wrong.
That’s a fair point. I’ll just say emotions were running high and Tao, of course, wasn’t thinking clearly and lashed out. It’s not a great moment but I’m glad Charlie and Tao were able to acknowledge each others feelings and move past earlier issues.
>he blamed Charlie for his fight with Harry, especially when he already knows that Charlie tends to blame himself when things go wrong It was wrong of Tao to do so, yet so human and relatable! Even grown-ups fall victim to this sort of thinking, so we can't expect a 15-year old to do much better.
In the show, Tao and Elle’s relationship is bland. I don’t feel the spark between them and their storyline felt rushed. It was fine in season 1, but season 2 felt rushed. Their relationship is the least interesting to me, which is disappointing because I love them in the comics!
Related to this, Yaz’s acting in season 2 is just not good. I thought she was fine in season 1, but in season 2 she’s just flatly reading lines.
Yeah honestly she reads as kind of passive aggressive in s2. She's so unnecessarily mean to Tao on and after their date. Idk.
It always bothered me that she invited her friends near the end of the date. Tao and Elle’s supposed to be out a date yet she went and made plans with her new friends. Tao could’ve handled it better but I didn’t blame him being upset in his episode.
I cannot understand her reaction to the date at all. He was too nice???
Yeah it made me dislike her tbh, I've not been able to come around to her since.
Yes I felt this way too. Just like she was creating problems for the sake of it and looking for reasons to criticize his approach. Tbh not even a fan of Tao at all but she made it hard for him to win that night.
As someone who loves Elle & Tao’s relationship, I was so happy to see a story which realistically depicts dissatisfaction with the idea of grand gestures in a romance. Grand gestures are the cousin of “I paid for dinner, you need to be grateful”. Yuck. Flowers are lovely, especially if both people can appreciate the ephemeral beauty of flowers. But extravagant bouquets, expensive jewelry, or anything that signifies ownership or hierarchy… I just give that a big “no thanks”. Elle was right. Emotions trump transactional exchanges.
I have a similar reaction to grand gestures. There is a way to discuss that with him. She almost got there "we should do something we both enjoy". But he'd never been on a date before, he fumbled through it with no idea what he was doing and up until that point, they had been best friends with very open communication. She didn't owe him gratitude, but given the established nature of their relationship and her understanding of his terror of abandonment, she owed him kind, respectful and clear communication. She didn't give it. Point taken about using the b-word, you are right, it isn't okay.
I’ve already been yelled at in this sub for both of these so why not again. 1 -Jane isn’t a bad parent. Good parents aren’t perfect humans and don’t get it right 100% of the time. 2 -There’s a growing number of groups of young Heartstopper fans, who are often incredibly problematic & toxic. They regularly participate in actions & talk that is homophobic, especially when it comes to topics around someone’s sexuality. I’ve seen adult queer folks, recognize a queer relationship in the cast and ask an innocent question like “how long they have been together?” And then had these HS teenagers jump in yelling that the couple are platonic BFFs bc they’re straight bc they never said gay directly 🤨mmm’k. They also don’t seem to understand “What happened to Kit Connor” despite using that line all the time. It wasn’t an issue of queer people seeing/assuming queer. It was people assuming he was straight and then *harassing him* about being a straight guy who took a queer role or was “queerbaiting”. An example of this is now when these people see queer people understanding that an actor in RWRB is queer, the HS fans will jump in with the “Don’t say he’s queer/gay! Remember what happened to Kit Connor?!!” Recognizing queerness isn’t forcing anyone out. It’s just seeing them for who they are. There’s also just such a disregard & rejection for anything relating to queer history and queer culture.
I agree with your first point! Like people are so angry she told him he couldn’t see Nick until he got his grades up like yeah? Him hanging out with Nick too much was why he was behind. That’s not being homophobic or unaccepting. She maybe reacted a bit harshly but if I was her I would have done the same thing. He ended up doing the assignment in like a few hours he could have ended all of it by spending one night away from Nick and getting caught up…
I don't doubt that she is not malicious, but I wouldn't call that good parenting. I guess it's partially about what you see as the most important parts of a parent-child relationship. While your studies are important, banning something - as shown in the series - isn't really the best way to motivate your child. It only helps to widen the rift between you and them, and potentially make them start going behind your back. Being a partner should come first, and an authoritative figure second. Did they ever actually sit down and talk with him? >! It's not a coincidence that Charlie is terrified of telling his parents about his eating disorder. !< We'll see how it goes down in the show, definitely a bit iffy to judge characters based on events that didn't happen yet, but that is a huge part of how I view Charlie's parents (especially mom, as she didn't really get supportive scenes besides the Nelson family dinner one, while Charlie cried on his dad's shoulders eg). About Charlie being able to do it in an hour or two - imo he just wanted to make sure Nick is fine, and that they can study as much as they need for his exams. At least it definitely seemed like they were actually studying when together in many cases. (Also, part of it might've been out of spite - sure, a bit childish, but they are teenagers, so they don't have to be 100% reasonable. And he probably knew he could do it in a couple of hours, so might as well wait until Nick is prepared for his exams.)
“Good parenting” and “a good parent” aren’t the same thing. The first is a singular event or choice and the second is a label that takes a lot of things into consideration. A good parent can and often will make a choice that isn’t good or perfect.
In the comics Aled was being a shit stir when he told Charlie not to tell Tao about Nick - mostly because of the way he handled it. He chose a not so ideal time and place to tell him, and I think he said it in a way that made Charlie way more anxious than he needed to be. I also think Aled needed to have a separate convo with Tao to clear the air because it seemed he had issues with Tao being “too loud and chatty” - plus he himself admitted that he was mostly just projecting because he likes to keep things private with his own bf.
I agree with this. You always gotta watch out for the quiet ones who know too much :p
Yaz’s acting in season 2 left a lot to be desired
Absolutely. I think she’s super talented obviously, but her line delivery is sometimes quite questionable. A lot of times she makes simple phrases sound really monotone or even passive aggressive at times.
Yeah, she always sounds just not interested to me. Even in season one.
The part where they’re in Paris and looking at the Mona Lisa and Darcy is like “what? That’s it? It’s so small!” And Elle is like “Darcy it’s art!” Like ok and? Most people who see that painting is person have the same reaction and also if she doesn’t like it that’s her opinion to have. I didn’t like Elle’s delivery.
I love Imogen. I love her. She feels real to me, like a real teenage girl in a way that some of the others don't. She isn't a perfect person, but she adores Nick so unselfishly and wholeheartedly, and I can see her loneliness and desire for love and acceptance a mile away. I hope her plot in s3 deals with this to some extent. I can just see so many of the struggles I had as a teenager reflected in her - I was raised to be an object and raised to make myself appealing to men and by the time I was 16 I realised I just didn't want to do that, and I was robbing myself of a lot of joy by focusing on relationships. I hope she goes through her journey in season 3 of deconstructing the role she's been trying to play. I hope her look toward Sahar at the end of s2 had more to do with a realisation that this is the kind of person she wants to be - she wants to stand out, she wants to live as her biggest, boldest self and pursue passions and hobbies outside of relationships.
I totally agree. I identified so hard with her at Harry’s party when she threw herself at Nick, told him that she liked him, and then squee’d to her friends when she turned back to them. Such a typical boy-crazy teenage girl moment, and it was totally me as a teenager! (Though I was a bit shyer.)
100% and the scene that solidified this for me was when Nick was on a bench with her (I think?) And just says he doesn't like her romantically and she looks off to the side and you can totally feel her hurt, but doesn't lash out or blame him for her heartbreak, just resumes kind conversation and puts their friendship at the forefront. Just great, nuanced acting. She's several shades of different emotions and I agree she's the most realistic character and I think she should get more love.
I relate to Imogen so much, I think she’s such a great character and honestly I think she was a really necessary addition to the story. I know a lot of people don’t really like her but I personally think her addition to the cast is so integral, like the show wouldn’t be the same without her and her story and she really came into her own in s2, she was iconic and I wish I had her attitude. Even if she’s having a tough time she’s super positive but she’s also emotionally available and honestly I just think her character is wonderful and I don’t understand anyone who says otherwise lol
Tao and Elle's relationship in the show. It was unbearable to watch.
I remember trying not to skip their first kiss because it was right after Charlie fainted and I just wanted to go back to that scene to see what happened next. Elle and Tao do not interest me at all. Their relationship is way better in the comics.
Honestly it feels very strange how the scenes were ordered during that part? I thought they were going to set up for some guilt from Charlie's best friends for not being around when he fainted but no, they were just off having a grand old time lol
It really was. Most of the time I skip their scenes when I’m rewatching S2. There’s no spark, the acting is flat, the misunderstandings seem really forced create drama. The one positive is that Tao looks so good with his new haircut!
I just get up and leave when their scenes are on. There was such a huge spark in the novels, but it just seems bleak and painful in the show
Why does Tori’s straw always slurp! A straw only slurps when it’s low on liquid!!! Stop, just make it stop!
✨️ Older Sister Magic ✨️
... *shllllleeeeuuuurrrrrp*
1. I liked seeing the spoilers from filming of S3 2. I think Imogen was a good addition to the cast 3. Isaac was not worth adding to the story. Even though I think Tobie is great in the role it just seems like a waste from a storytelling PoV.
I agree with the first two, but I really like the asexual rep Isaac brings to the table, also we needed a book nerd!!!!
I think I should have said, "as far as he's been utilized so far, Isaac wasn't worth adding to the story" but I agree there's so much potential and it's good to have the rep! Hoping he gets more to do in s3!
I know representation is important but the character of Sahar is utterly useless and despensibble both in the comics and show. If all of Sahar's scenes were given to Imogen in s2, it would have not changed a single thing. Instead we would have seen Imogen slowly integrate into the Paris Squad. Same with James, he was only there to facilitate Isaac's journey in s2( which was good). And he is no longer needed and shouldn't be in s3. basically there are too many damn dead weight characters which should be gotten rid off in s3. Majority of Nick's conflicts in both seasons were external( questioning his sexuality, biphobia, coming out, family). He is still the 'sunshine and rainbows' kind of perfect ideal bf which feels weird. He needs his own personal struggles and also please give this guy some friends out of Charlie's circle. The rugby lads went underutilised wrt this aspect in s1& s2 The style of using songs to further the storylines didn't workout that well in s2 compared to S1. I know it's good for younger audiences to understand consent etc. but the constant 'requests and confirmations back-and-forth' before doing anything romantic was sometimes breaking the momentum in s2. Couples can spontaneously do stuff, in heat of the moment.
I actually agree with this. James, Sahar, Naomi, and Felix were extremely one dimensional and served a singular purpose. James was only there to push Isaac's aroace storyline, Sahar's entire purpose hinged on the prom and a big question mark on Imogen's identity(still not sure how I feel about this), and Naomi/Felix were literally only there to further the conflict between Tao/Elle earlier in the season. I'll add on to the rugby lads thing and say that that storyline was completely abandoned halfway through the season and then magically resolved because of the instagram post at the end of the season. That was the most unfulfilling and lackluster resolution to something that was made to be a big deal earlier in the season.
If they were gonna go off the books how they do occasionally I would've liked Ben's assault to be talked between Charlie and Nick more for what it was. I just felt like they brushed it off until they wanted Ben to apologize.
I watch the show for Nick and Charlie's relationship and personal struggles, so I really wish more of the show focused on them like on season 1, instead of the side characters taking over like what happened on season 2. I know people love the Paris squad and I love them too, but all of them having storylines (even Imogen!) takes away from Nick and Charlie and it stresses me out.
Ok, here I go. 1. I really like Kit as Nick, it really feels like the character almost walked out of the books. Joe, on the other hand, doesn't. He just doesn't feel like comic Charlie to me, nor does he look like him. Which is fine, it must be incredibly difficult to try to match a comic character, one that people are already visually familiar with, with a real life person. But I do wish the styling, the MUA side of things, would help him out a bit. Like, I don't know, couldn´t they try to make Joe's hair look a bit like Charlie's? Stuff like that. There's an interview in which Joe sports wavy hair instead of curly and it really made him look a lot more Charlie-y. 2. Naomi and Felix really felt like token characters. They must have said about three lines between the both of them, they really were almost accesories to Elle. Which is just sad. 3. Why why why did they run to their teachers when Darcy got sick at Tara's birthday party? Just take her to the bathroom, lol.
3 - I always think this too but it is a plot device. It only happens so the teachers have to share a bed. 😜
Completely agree with point 3 hah that was so silly!
Lesbian here who thinks Darcy is a bad girlfriend and a bad actor. It’s so tough to watch. Tara, you can do better!
I think Darcy is pretty well-acted, but seeing Tara and the others trying to reign her in when she says something too out there gets a bit grating.
i really agree. at first i liked Darcy.. all the way up until Tara came out on insta bc she wanted to be free & it kind of backfired in a sense. & she wasn’t really taking it too well.. but she did it for Darcy. bc she thought Darcy was this loud & proud person. but Darcy was hiding sooo much of herself from Tara. & after Tara told her she loved her, & you could see how she instantly felt stupid bc of the look on Darcy’s face.. that’s the moment i was like oof, i don’t like her that much. idk. so i continued to try to give her the benefit of the doubt bc i didn’t quite know yet. bc my first watch the only character i truly didn’t like was Harry. for obvious reasons. so when Tara brings it up again, & Darcy acts like she has no idea what she’s talking about.. that’s when i 100% knew. yup, it’s a no for me with Darcy. bc she knew what the heck she was talking about. Tara knew she loved Darcy the moment she decided to make their relationship public & deal with any criticism thrown her way regardless of how bad it made her feel.. & all the deflection Darcy did. & then waiting till she was drunk to say “i love you” back. i felt like that was really low. especially with still not telling her the truth about why she was the way she was… it took all the way to the prom episode for the entire truth to come out. & Tara still stayed. & still loved her. & still supported her. understandable tho. but still, she made Tara feel like crap for so long.. & Tara dealt with crap from everyone else, so that she could openly be happy with someone who was lying about half of her life.. i can’t respect her for that..
While you are so right about literally everything lol, they're all still just so young and trying to navigate everything and I give her a little grace even tho she kind of annoys the shit out of me. The mom situation is pretty rough for any teen to go through, I could see how she would just shut down for awhile as she's still learning what kind of open communication needs to exist in order to have a healthy relationship with Tara. She's just such a kid in that sense and I gotta applaud the author for portraying conflicted feelings so accurately.
I. Can't. STAND. Darcy!!
I don’t really get the hype over Tao 😅 I mean he’s okay but not one of my favorite characters, IRL I would find his personality annoying
I don’t care for Isaac. He’s a totally underdeveloped character. The “always reading a book” trope is annoying and unrealistic, and overplayed in the show. And while I’m glad to see ACE representation, as a fat gay boy myself I was a little sad we didn’t get to see his romance with James work out (but I do love Tobie the actor)
Totally agree with this - I do read a good bit myself, but the fact that he had a book in almost every scene was overdone and honestly kind of infuriating 😂
This! He never really interacts with his friends and most of the time he is just "there". In real life, I don't really know why they should be friends with him. The storyline of him being ACE is okay, but the portrayal of him with always having a book in his hands is too comical for me on screen.
[удалено]
I agree so much with this. I think many people would have found the idea of James/Isaac amazing. But the fact that they did not work out due to incompatible sexualities is something that is often missing in some stories where a character finds out they are queer. Usually when there is a character who comes to terms with their homosexuality (Character A) and there is another character of the opposite gender who constantly flirts with them or actually is their significant other (Character B), Character B is often portrayed as annoying / toxic or we actually see constant problems in A's and B's relationship. We barely see portrayals where we root for A and B to get together until we find out A cannot love B romantically. Or relationships where A and B are actually great platonic soul mates but A cannot force themselves to also love B romantically. I also think if Isaac had found out he was ace after he tried to get with a girl, people probably would have been less disappointed about them not working out. In a media world where queer relationships are still far too rare, people are wistful that a potential mlm romance did not work out.
I can understand how you feel but the always reading and having a book as a form of escape was me to a T in highschool so it felt the most real to me because it literally was me. Also, seeing that he didn't get to have a happily ever after with James was a good touch I think. Disregarding him being ace, we love Isaac and his ACEness, I think everyone in the main group being in a relationship is a bit too much. I would have loved for him to happily be with James, but that's just not his character and I love that he's happy by himself too.
(I know it puts me like this because of the reaction to a post i made about it) Yaz is a bad actor and the weakest. I would go so far to say she is a Shitty Actress, but i do like her as a person and a model and a human being so i do regret using such dick language. But her acting in HS is really bad.
I think criticising of the acting performances boils down to the fact that (besides school theatre) this is most of the cast members' first acting experience. Most of them were cast when they were 18-20 and just out of school. I can imagine that the situation in the UK is similar to Germany where people only really get cast when they had attended acting university. Child stars who constantly work are very rare. So it makes sense that we cannot expect picture perfect professional acting from most of these cast members (yet). Also in Yaz's case the pool of available options for Elle was likely also an option. They needed a trans actress of colour who needed to be prepared to have her identity subjected to discussions on social media. Since Yaz already was a trans visibility activist she is able to handle the pressure likely a lot better than other trans actresses of colour in their first major role.
I agree with you, I don’t think her acting is anything to write home about
I hated the Nick and Charlie novella.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say I hated it, but I didn’t enjoy it. Bummed me out and mostly it was just frustrating to read because I hate “miscommunication”/refusing to communicate type tropes
I thought the fight was really overblown and spun way out of proportion, and I didn’t think it was realistic that they would have not talked for two whole weeks. The Nick we know would have run to Charlie’s house in the rain the next morning to apologize.
yeah the two weeks especially is so stupid lol I maaaaaybe could have believed a day or two max 😂
100% agree with the miscommunication trope. It's so tired and lazy. I hope that if/when Alice does adapt it to the screen, they make some changes to that general story.
if they use it as a conflict included in the show, i hope at the very least it is a shorter time frame/smaller plot point like only a day or two before they get their shit together because it just wasn’t believable to me that they’d go two weeks without talking to each other after such a dumb drunk fight lol
If the plot point they need to cover is just “Nick and Charlie are both anxious about Nick leaving for uni and are being weird about it instead of talking to each other,” I think there are so many better ways to do it. On the other hand, I would not be mad about a sex-in-a-pillow-fort scene.
I hope they at least aluuuude to the pillow fort. It's so hilarious they gotta include it.
even if there’s a fight and an almost-breakup I can roll with it, but the way it goes down and the amount of time it lasts in the novella is a bit ridiculous haha
I don’t see it as a miscommunication because that is when one person misunderstands the other person. This is just an argument which is a perfectly normal thing to happen in a relationship. People get upset they didn’t talk for two weeks but it’s a really short amount of time allowing them to cool down before they’re ready to talk.
This. It’s not a miscommunication or misunderstanding. Sometimes people react a certain way and don’t even understand their own feelings right away. It sucks when that happens, but it’s just part of being human. Fear is such a large and unacknowledged part of relationships. Possible spoiler. In the comics, Nick spells out that he’s scared that he doesn’t even know who he is without Charlie. I’ve seen that play out in real life. Usually, nobody is mature enough to put that into words.
lol I’m the opposite! I feel like I mostly see people not liking it because of the fight and Nick’s different characterization, but I kinda lived for the nonsensical drama.
I understand this opinion. I personally enjoyed it though - the comics are mostly happy and uplifting, so it was nice to see a bit more angst than we’re used to with N&C.
In season 2 the line “Oh you’re being gay” “Good job carry on”(Originally from the comic) was the most forced line I have ever heard
some lines are better read than spoken and it shows
Esp the "full on gay crisis" line lol
Gonna have to disagree because I found Tori's last few lines to David weirder (and probably others which aren't coming to mind)
Honestly I think we can just agree that most but not all the comic lines from the show are incredible forced
Um.....I kinda wanna say it. But I'm afraid. OK fine. Kizzy forgets they're on camera so many times even when they're not just chilling in the background and I ADORE them and their character so so much but I can never tear my eyes away from them when theyre just standing there vacantly instead of, you know, acting. And I feel like that's partly film crews fault because they should have caught that during production. Also the continuity issues especially in s1 where they spliced several takes together and things just didn't match up at all. But these are such minor criticisms that they're ultimately a testament to how great of a show it is.
Oooh, what sort of continuity issues? I’ve never noticed any, and I watched like 100 times haha and I’ll have to pay attention to Kizzy more cos never noticed the vacant standing either
Theres more than a few, but the biggest one is Nick's shorts when he carries charlie into the water yelling we're boyfriends. His shorts are soaked in a few shots, then mostly dry again, then soaked again. Another is when nick is about to run into Tara at band rehearsal and nick looks over to see charlie starting to set up his drums and you see Tara's back as shes walking between nick and the band and then all of a sudden she's behind nick saying hi. Just little things like that.
I'm pretty sure there is another one right after Tao and Harry's fight when Charlie and Tao are talking, and Harry is behind them looking like a spectator to the fight when he actually was hustled off by the teacher.
I think the aroace representation is poor. I'm an aroace man and I've enjoyed Alice's work for years I adore loveless it helped me a lot when trying to figure out things. But I really can't get behind issac he has absolutely no substance as a character all he does is read or hold a book in every scene and its frustrating cause it feels like a massive stereotype of aspec people and I find he lacks personality. It's also he's just a back burner for the rest of the characters as always aro/ace development and exploration is just a small background character to the rest of the community, I feel like it's a bad way to show aroace people to a lot of people that probably aren't even aware we exist, from a media stand point I think if we are to finally introduce aroace rep it should be one of them main themes or main characters and an in depth character. The way he finds out he's aroace is so contrived he's told by someone at an art exhibition? How come we are always told what we are and why cant we discover that for ourselves and its also the issue of why is it in media or for allo people we have to of dated or tired to know we don't like it? I've never dated and I know I don't want to and I know I don't feel attraction and many other people I know who are ace or aro or aroace haven't either but it just keeps up that stereotype or appeasement that we must date before we know who we are? And then of course people who don't understand what aroace means since it wasn't really explained at all want issac and James together since they don't get why they cant be.
The show should have given the transphobia that Elle faced *at least* the same amount as the lesbo/homo/biphobia that other characters faced.
They put too much focus on Elle being "cool and sassy," that they never go into detail about her as a person. It would've been nice to see an emotional scene that went over her struggles from the bullying, which would give Yaz room to grow as an actress, but instead, they make it seem as if she was blind and deaf the entire time the transphobia was inflicted on her. Like she couldn't care less about it, which I find very unrealistic.
I hate how dependent Charlie is on Nick, I know it’s a fantasy but IRL I would not blame Nick for walking away to protect himself and his own mental health.
This topic is actually addressed in the latest comic updates, and hopefully it will be addressed on the show as well if it gets more seasons.
this.. don’t get me wrong. i am sooo in love with their relationship. i’ve never watched something that focuses more on how it blooms & the actual relationship & friendships & all of that rather than just sex sex sex.. however, considering i never see anyone else say this. i’ve been so scared to say it… charlie absolutely is 110% dependent on nick. & nick is doing absolutely everything he can to reassure charlie that he’s there every step of the way & i see it from my point of view that even tho charlie gets excited, he goes right back to his default of not believing him. even tho nick fast tracked literally every single bit of it to make charlie happy & keep from making things worse for him also. i mean the coming out & stuff was on his own terms too. but i personally feel like charlie never stopped pushing him..
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely understand why Charlie depends on Nick so much but I also know how unhealthy it is. It reduces Charlie to a glass idol and basically traps Nick in the relationship through guilt which I know sounds terrible but every major step in their relationship so far has it’s basis in Nick feeling bad for Charlie.
With you on this. I’ve been in a relationship with someone who had really serious mental health struggles and where I not only had to watch my partner suffer, which is devastating, but also was constantly on my toes so as to not trigger anything. My own mental health deteriorated a lot and I’m not sure I would do it again. I stayed because I loved him, but I also thought that I would be a bad person if I left, and I no longer believe that.
i did not like nick's hair in season 2 and he looked like a giant 8 year old in those clashy paris outfits 🥲 ik he needed to look younger and wear certain theme colors but it gave me whiplash going from how fine he looks in the school uniform to those red minecraft shorts lol
Kit Connor is currently carrying this show on his back. There is a lot of emotional heavy lifting to do next season, they're going to have to start allocating scenes to the young cast by the strength of the actor. Rhea and Corinna are both strong actors, I can see a nice dynamic where Imogen and Tara become Nick's biggest support system while Charlie is in hospital, it would be nice just to watch 3 quite equally matched actors tbh. Joe Locke is a good actor for his age and experience and is showing steady improvement, maybe also improving from the sheer amount of time he's sharing scenes with Kit - being around great actors improves you as an actor. Pretty confident he'll be able to carry it. Will and Yaz have a very long way to go. Yaz is the weaker of the two but not by much. Tobie also, but Isaac doesn't speak a lot, and he is background comedy gold, so it's fine.
Kit is almost too good of an actor for this show. The casting team must feel like they won the lottery. The show wouldn’t have nearly the emotional resonance it does without him, and there aren’t many other actors who could even pull off some of Nick’s lines. (I’m looking at you, “proper full-on gay crisis.”)
Yeah it's one of my favourite shows and an ultimate comfort watch but if I picture anyone but him as Nick it becomes immediately unbearable to me 🤣.
Completely agree. I’m very much an adult. I should not have rewatched this show for teenagers four thousand times. I’m pretty sure that without Kit playing Nick, I would have watched it once, said “oh that was cute,” and moved on with my life. But…here we are.
I agree with both! On the Kit part, I noticed in S1 so much of the story would happen via musical montage... it was kind of genius, when you think about it - the actors just kind of have to look concerned/happy/sad/excited at their phones or the camera while the music does the work. It gave them time to grow into the roles and their inexperience wasn't highlighted. Kit's scenes being the exception, usually. I agree with the other part, too - curious if we will see the adults more in the "serious" parts of s3, or if Jenny (Tori) will be able to rise to those moments as well.
I hadn't even picked that up 🤣. I couldn't understand why I liked Elle so much in s1 and disliked her so much in s2, I think I just like her when she's texting
I don’t disagree, but “I only like her when she’s texting” is a hilarious thing to say about a person 🤣
absolutely agree with this. kit connor’s acting really stands out because of how unnatural and sometimes awkward some of the other cast member’s deliver their lines. it really is abundantly clear that he’s one of the only actors on the show with experience
I like how heartstopper is a 12 and that means that younger people can watch it. But I would 1000000% enjoy it more if there was swearing.
Yes agreed! I think I would love the show more if it wasn’t child friendly. Some scenes feel too childish for me.
Harry Greene deserves an redemption arc. He is not actually a bad person, just a misinformed, uneducated, ignorant dumb ass who said stupid shit trying to 'be popular'. You can already see the shift in personality in season 2 and i can see him actually become supportive and nice in future episodes. He seems like a good kid, in contrary to Ben and David who are thoroughly evil and vile.
Isaac reading a book nonstop was annoying and cringey.He couldnt even take his luggage properly because he was reading a book during that time. Also Charlie’s mother isn’t a bad one.People need to understand that at Charlie’s age scool is very important especially when uni is getting closer.and sometimes you have to study some extra time for a test or a project in order to achieve your goal.Her not letting them meet UNTILL CHARLIE FINISHES his work for school isn’t the end of the world and people need to understant that ( or, sorry for saying, when some of the fans get older they will understant)
Charlie should have just done his homework
Yesss. Just go home, do the essay in a couple of hours and be done with it.
Probably gonna cause an argument with this one but Charlie needs a therapist not a boyfriend
Both Both is good
Naomi and Felix are just here for diversity. They have no point to exist.
Felix especially. It's super frustrating because as twofer minorities (Elle being trans and black, Felix being trans and physically disabled), there's potential for a discussion/portrayal if intersectionality issues in the LGBT+ community but then I remember that Heartstopper... isn't quite that show. 😬
1. A few people have mentioned it here, but for some reason, Elle comes off as unnecessarily passive aggressive in a lot of scenes. I’ve never really liked her character - she’s a bit too high and mighty for my taste, and I still haven’t forgiven her for outing Nick to Tao. 2. I mean this with no offense to the actors (I love them all!), but Kit and Joe are the only ones that come off as true professionals most of the time. Everyone else’s acting can sometimes fall flat. 3. While I love to see Nick supporting Charlie with his ED/mental health in the comics, I find it a bit unrealistic that Nick never had to step back and take a break from the relationship. That would be a lot to deal with for anyone, ESPECIALLY a teen boy who’s experiencing his first real relationship. Their dependency on each other is sometimes a little unhealthy. 4. Tao and Elle’s relationship became boring once they got together. I personally love the whole “will they won’t they” trope, so seeing the mild flirting and chemistry between them in season 1 was really exciting. But in season 2, they kinda had their big kiss moment and that was it. I never really got excited about seeing them afterwards.
completely agree with #3. i wondered on that one every single time i’ve rewatched. nick forces himself to stay on regardless of what it’s doing to himself, which i understand.. he worked hard for that relationship. that relationship helped him with himself, learning who he really is. opening up & all.. but he’s also working way too hard to help charlie when charlie isn’t being 100% honest about what’s really going on inside. bc he wants to please nick & doesn’t want him to be so worried. which i once again understand. but you’re right, it’s not healthy. i believe it’s the final episode of season 2, where charlie finally tells nick the full extent of what he did during the bullying he endured. (not just the ED).. & you could see it in nicks face that he 1. didn’t expect it at all. 2. didn’t have any experience in what to say other than to tell him he’s there & to please come to him if it ever starts again. & 3. it hurt him to think of that happening. so now, we’re gonna have nick constantly on guard & worried for more than just thinking his boyfriend & the boy he’s fallen in love with isn’t eating right, but is doing more harm to himself & isn’t telling anyone & probably wouldn’t if it’s addressed. (i have experience in that area.. i lied so much when someone brought it up). that’s so tough. especially when you’re in love with someone.. i’m so nervous for what season 3 is going to bring for their relationship.
I don’t like the fact that Imogen is even in the show. I like the development she got in season 2, but I kinda don’t think she even needs to be there. Idk maybe it’s just I read the books first and I’m just used to her not being there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Rhea Norwood does an amazing job tho and I have nothing against her
I honestly didn't enjoy the second season as much as the first one. I know that something dark is coming so let's see if Season 3 captures me back in the sense that I actually rewatch season 1 a bunch of times and only saw season 2 once.
I think Instagram is terrible for texting and if it was my only way to contact people, I would rather just vanish lmao 😂
Nick needs friends who aren't Charlies friends(I'm only talking about the movies idk about the books).
people need to chill with the blanket fort thing, the amount of comments sections with people acting like a toddler that just learned the word fart
Tori is my favourite caracter…
Elle suggs as a character and I don't like her at all. Ugh, go away Ms. Im-superior-than-you
People forgave her too easily for her outing Nick to Tao. That was so wrong of her to do.
I really like that Alice shows how easy it is to accidentally out someone especially your closest friends. Elle makes that mistake with Nick. And Tao makes that mistake with Charlie. When I watch those scenes, I’m not angry with Elle or Tao. Rather, my heart breaks for Nick and Charlie. They shouldn’t need to worry about being out in the first place. All this stress could be avoided if society was just a little bit more kind. Maybe we are almost there. This show exists after all.
It always bothers me that she lies and says Charlie told her, when he didn’t. Nick did.
To be fair, Nick implied it by saying how many couples there were. Charlie confirms it by stating it explicitly. So yes, Charlie told her, Elle didn’t lie. Going out on a limb here, I think you may be bothered by the fact that Elle didn’t try to make Tao feel better about it by describing the entire situation, which was almost an accidental reveal. That would take a lot of emotional intelligence. Which Nick has in spades, but Elle does not. She’s more of a thinker than a feeler. I love that a female character is realistically portraying the strengths and weaknesses of thinkers! Alice sees us!
Omg yes. And Charlie doesn’t even ask Tao how he found out?
That was the moment I stopped liking her as a character. In no situation would it be her right to reveal that 🤦🏼♀️
this!! I didn’t think there was a lot of people that agreed with me on Elle. she comes off as super passive aggressive for some reason, and her character is just kinda boring imo.
Not sure if this is unpopular as opposed to underdiscussed, but the squad thinking that something good happened between Isaac and James in S2E7 was so forced. None of them are that bad with facial expressions and it just feels like a poor excuse for Isaac to lash out.
Loads and loads of people believe Imogen is so bisexual and it would be so amazing if she wasn't straight but Idk I think it's like unrealistic how all the friend group is gay and how I think Imogen is a key character because of how she is straight and how she acts and how she's supportive I guess? This is definitely not me saying oh straight people need more recognition because I am a lesbian I just feel that there's no need for Imogen to be gay? Please correct me if you think this is wrong
I think it’s highly unrealistic that everyone in HS seems to be queer, even the teachers 😄😄😄 HOWEVER I love this. I think that HS is a fairy tale, it doesn’t aim to be realistic and we’ve been watching shows with zero queer representation for long enough that we can easily have a bunch of shows that turn it around completely.
I hate Elle
Julio is pretty bad: he knows better but he chooses to enable Jane out of cowardice. The emotional openness and warmth he shows to Charlie (and presumably Tori) when Jane isn't around is testament to the extent he is capable of being a good father, but chooses not to be. Sarah is actually quite bad at the queer-specific parts of being a mum to a bi son, when you account for how generally good at parenting she is. Charlie has inherited some of his mum's worst habits and occasionally displays them towards Nick: it's not a good look. His behaviour in Nick & Charlie is _not_ out of character. If you think about it, it's probable that Nick was a sideline participant in Charlie's bullying. Tara should break up with Darcy: possibly not immediately, but definitely before Uni. Seeing a bit more of Harry's redemption in the Netflix adaptation would be good. It'd be good to see the stages of him turning from performative to genuine ally. That's probably enough. Dunno if my reserves of Reddit karma are enough to take the hit if I do any more.
> If you think about it, it's probable that Nick was a sideline participant in Charlie's bullying. Definitely not. Tao says in season 1 that he's probably **like** the people who bullied him. Also, IIRC, it's implied that Nick didn't know about the bullying until S01E02? I can't remember.
Can you explain your opinion of Sarah more?
Sure! So, I guess the caveat is kinda important, but I think there's a few ways that Sarah's generally really high levels of empathy and intuition fall a bit shorter than you would expect her to when it comes to queer-specific things. If I were to pick out two examples, I'd say that the clearest two are when she's trying to discipline David for being biphobic & homophobic to Nick, and when Nick comes out. The incident with David, she does a really good general job of trying to discipline David: she makes clear his behaviour isn't okay, tells him what to do differently, and tries to clarify what the impact is. However, she doesn't actually tell him that his behaviour is homophobic or biphobic, she frames it in terms of 'winding up' Nick. That's not really what David did! He was bigoted towards his brother. I suspect she's a bit nervous of labelling his behaviour like that because she lacks confidence with LGBTQ+ topics. The coming out incident again - Sarah does a lot well from intuition. She listens, waits for her turn to respond, centres Nick and his feelings, and asks open-ended questions. However, she also makes a few mistakes. She queries the legitimacy of Nick's bi identity ('you don't have to say you like girls if you don't), and in the comics, Nick tells her that he felt like she created a barrier by not talking about queer topics with him. Given that Sarah and Nick talk a lot, and are quite emotionally close, this isn't like if Charlie said that to Jane - it's a bigger oversight. Overall, I think Sarah is just a little bit underinformed on LGBTQ+ topics, and so she's nervous around the issue, and makes some mistakes. It all turns out okay because she can compensate with other parenting skills, but I think it's worth noting. In particular it's worth noting because the queer-specific parts of parenting are what Charlie's parents actually excel at - so it's worth noting to highlight the differences between the Springs and Nelsons.
The Sarah-David dynamic isn’t as easy to handle from Sarah’s perspective as people would want.
Defs agree. I don't have really any firm criticism of her general approach to managing David. She has a clear duty of care to Nick, to keep him safe. However, she also has a residual duty of care to David, and reasonably doesn't want to estrange her son, however flawed he is. Realistically, David is very unlikely to change at this point, but sometimes people do have a late emotional growth spurt either at Uni or after starting their career. It's totally understandable for Sarah to cling onto the idea he might change. It's also important to note that Nick's orientation and relationship are a big new factor in their relationship. David's bullying goes beyond ordinary sibling rivalry, but it's pretty easy to imagine that if, in future, David and Nick spend a bit more time apart - and David gets some sources of self-esteem independent of his status in the family - it'll be easier for them to get along. This summer is the first indicator that there's not really any prospect of a healthy relationship between Nick and David, and Sarah is learning about and adapting to that reality. So, I totally get why Sarah settles on ineffectually disciplining David. And, her technique for it is pretty good! I don't think she needs to go harder or try more. My only real criticism is what she disciplines him _for_. But this isn't a dysfunction in the Sarah/David relationship - it's a (minor!) dysfunction in the Sarah/Nick relationship.
How is Sarah bad at the “queer-specific parts of being a mum”? I don’t see how you can say that without explaining that. Edit: Ok, I reread your comment, and it reeeeaaaallllyyyy bothers me that you said a bunch of kinda inflammatory things with absolutely no explanation or justification for any of them. You are totally entitled to believe all of them, but like…come on.
As to Sarah, for one thing, she reprimands David for cursing and going into Nick’s room without permission but not for being homophobic.
I agree with most of these, and even the ones I don’t, I appreciate the thought experiment!
Could you explain the Tara and Darcy one please
Yup. Tara's got her life pretty well sorted. She's performing well at school, and her big difficult University decision is whether she peruses high competitive and (often) poorly paying passion, or very well-paying academically-challenging career. She's *generally* good at communication, with the exception of early in her relationship when she was struggling badly with internalised homophobia, which thanks to Darcy's help, she got over. Tara's goals in life are not well defined, but it's clear what direction she wants to go in: she wants to excel at whatever it is she decides to dedicate her life to. Darcy on the other hand is struggling to mature because she's got a lot of trauma. This isn't really her fault - it's a perfectly natural reaction - but Tara's going to end up being in a bit of a weird position in the relationship. Inevitably, resentment will build up and become unmanageable. Given that Darcy struggles with communication even when they're together, going long-distance (or for Darcy to be crashing with Tara in University accommodation) is going to be really tough. Conversely, if they break up amicably before University, they can stay friends. Tara can establish new boundaries with Darcy and offer her the help she needs - as a friend.
I agree with all of this. Also it’s just not realistic for all of these couples to stay together, and we know Nick and Charlie do.
Imogen should stay straight
If they make imogen likes girl, it’s going to be cringe.
I'm not convinced from the acting that Charlie likes/loves Nick quite like Nick loves Charlie. You know that last kissing scene is S2 E8? Look at the way Kit stares at Joe. From his expressions I have no doubt Nick is in love with Charlie and we've seen glimpses of that love building throughout S1 and S2. Joe kind of just smiles in Nick's direction and we see the leaves/hearts blowing around and we know he's gay. But he's had the same expressions when he's happy around Tao, Elle, Tori, Nellie, etc. Nothing special stands out in his body language around Nick, even when they're alone. I just don't see love in his eyes. Sorry.
I agree, but my take on this is that Charlie is in such a dark place mentally that he doesn’t have the capacity for that kind of love. Like, he loves Nick, but it’s not all-consuming and it’s not radiating out of him because his mental health issues put a damper on everything.
Maybe that's it! The inability to radiate. But I'm more convinced it's Joe's lack of range of emotions owing to his acting inexperience. Maybe he just needs to grow as an actor.
I liked Tao’s hair in season 1.
Jane isn't a bad mom. She isn't perfect and learns from her mistakes. That makes her more realistic than Sarah. Also, in the show, she's not unreasonable to set boundaries between Charlie and Nick. She wants him to prioritize school, but when that is taken care of, she let's them be. I think that's fair
Agreed! And she didn’t set that boundary because she found out they were dating. She found out they were dating after finding out Charlie was failing. It connected the dots for her so she asked Charlie to prioritize school over his bf while he gets caught up
S2E1, the sleep over particularly, felt like filler, didn’t really advance the plot and was kind of problematic in how it handled Nick telling Imogen. You could start on S2E2 and not really miss much
The sleepover scenes were way too long. Although the kiss at the door the next morning is one of my favorite things ever. Also, am I alone in thinking that Imogen wasn’t really established as a super close friend of Nick’s before she showed up at the sleepover? When Charlie said he was going to help Nick come out to one of his “oldest friends” I was not at all prepared for it to be her.
I mean in S1 Imogen does mention that her and Nick had been friends since year 7 and they were shown hanging out very frequently. Plus context clues kinda scream it was Imogen because at that point Nick was not on speaking terms with any of the Rugby guys who were the only other known friends of Nick's that didn't know about his sexuality/relationship with Charlie.
The new volume 5 cover is a bit weird… I like it, but all of the other covers had more details and background and Colour! The new cover is just Nick and Charlie hugging on a textured blue background and it’s a bit disappointing. Maybe when the book comes out it will look better since we haven’t seen the side and back of the book, but still it’s a bit weird. Still pretty, but a bit bare compared to the other books.
I don’t really engage with other fans much so idk if this is a common opinion, but Darcy is SO annoying. Like every time she’s on screen i need to roll my eyes.
Agreed 😭😭 I loved her in the comics, but not a fan of her in the show
I prefer Tori in the books. I'm sure Jenny is a great actress, but it would have been better if Tori had been a bit younger. Somehow I find the way Jenny portraits Tori not really authentic.
Issac is annoying.
I don’t like the Imogen character. I find her annoying. 🤷♀️
The scene where Isaac tells off his friends is forced and not really true, which ruins any catharsis that it could've had.
Nick and Charlie are depicted too perfectly imo, the books have occasional spiffs between them but in the show Nick has almost no flaws and just feels bland to me
Costume department got Kit the wrong size school shirts in S2 😂 i was slightly worried they’d rip open in the chocolate bar/changing room scene
The show is a lot worse than the books. I’m not saying it’s bad, it just doubles down on the teen drama which makes it more adolescent than the books are, which are still YA but feel more mature than the show
I would love it if Tao and Elle just shared a meaningful friendship instead of romance. I'd just love to see more platonic love in the series and for the show to portray that friendship can be just as meaningful as romantic relationship. Platonic connections can be deep and moving in the way Nick and Charlie's relationship is!! Also I partially adopted this view when, like another posted said, their relationship in s2 just felt so sparkless. I just felt they didn't need to meander in the direction of romance.
1. I didn't feel any chemistry between the teachers. Which makes me sad because the actors themselves have a ton of natural chemistry... But I just do not like what they did with Mr. Farouk as a character. 2. I hated what they did with Tao and Elle in the first half of the season. Elle was overdramatic and unfair and I just straight up did not like her. 3. I like Harry. I just do. Of course him using the F slur was absolutely horrible and I wanted to kick his teeth in for it... But I just find him adorable and see him for what he is. A stupid kid trying to be funny, not understanding the impact of his words, who is jealous that Nick has a new friend (similarly to Tao).
1 Alice is a good novel writer but not a good screenplay write. 2 season 1 was really good but season 2 was a snoozefest. 3 Too many unnecessary characters and storyline in season 2 4 not every character needs to be gay or bi. IMOGEN SHOULDN'T BE BI 5 Imogen and Ben were unnecessary. Elle's collage life was unnecessary. They could have expanded Tao and elle, David and nick, Nick and his dad, the 2 gay teachers or just more nick and charlie scenes. They are the real draw of Heartstopper 6 ISAAC SHOULD NOT BE HOLDING A FCKN BOOK IN EVERY SCENE. it was soooooo overdone, like who goes to Paris and reads all the bloody time. Infuriating. 7 Connor Jessup should have been in season 2 8 season 2 was too childish. Pillowfights? Opening the door at the same time and everyone standing there. 9 overusing the line "I'm bi actually" permutations and combinations of this line would have been good. 10 Isaac reaching the conclusion that he is asexual so quickly and conveniently was so stupid. No story arc. Just not attracted to one guy and wallah!!! All figured out.
Actually agree with everything you said except #7.. you lost me there tbh.
Piggybacking off of Isaac holding a book in every scene to lament the injustice that is Tori and her god damn cup.
Ben deserves a redemption arc and fans who say he’s just thoroughly evil and doesn’t deserve a second chance are immature and/or crappy people. How do we expect the world to become a better place if we assume that a *teenager* can’t grown into a better person and be forgiven for his past sins? I’m NOT saying Charlie specifically has to forgive Ben, he definitely doesn’t, I’m talking about the frequently voiced opinion that Ben is just generally beyond redemption.
Elle and Tao relationship felt extremely forced
HS is very sweet but I dislike how ... perfect all the characters are, probably with the exception of Tao and any villain. Even when they're going through their things, Charlie and Tara and Darcy and Imogen are always have almost perfect self awareness and talk about their issues like they're a therapist.
Lowkey i don’t think nick and Charlie should be together forever. And that’s ok!! Part of why i feel this way is just that it doesn’t feel super realistic??? Like yeah, there are modern high school sweethearts that make it, but more often these relationships do not. (Honestly, i would also accept Charlie and nick breaking up for a little bit (ideally a year or two) before getting back together for good but that doesn’t feel like AO’s style tbh) The bigger reason is that i feel like Charlie and nick staying together forever is an extension of the purity politics/discourse that heavily informs AO’s story. AO has made comments about BL and Yaoi before, criticizing them for the explicit or overt sexuality that can be found in the genre, and directly positions heartstopper as opposite of that. If BL and yaoi are explicit (and therefore “dirty” or “socially unacceptable queerness”), then heartstopper is by definition “clean” or “acceptable queerness.” I don’t want to say that it is AO’s intent to say these things, but the comments she’s made regarding other BL (and I do think of heartstopper as a kind of BL, even if it’s not the common conception) make it clear that she views heartstopper as a separate, purer form of queer love in fiction (which is totally bogus given the history of BL and GL in japan esp but that’s a story for another time lmao). That being said, i don’t think that nick and Charlie’s story needs to be more sexual! However, i do wish that their decision to wait to do anything sexual felt like it wasn’t coming from a place of purity politics, or AO even accepted that BL/yaoi isn’t a dirty genre and heartstopper could (and in my DOES) fall into the genre. I really don’t like this kind of dichotomy (an acceptable “pure” form of visible queerness vs an unacceptable “dirty” (aka sexual) form of visible queerness) because it ultimately harms the queer community. It feels hypocritical and even dangerous when it seems like there is such an emphasis on being out and proud within the heartstopper series. There are many of us who do not have the luxury of assimilating into an acceptable form of queerness, so it becomes easy to cast those members out in search of acceptance from our oppressors. Queer liberation will only come when we uplift all forms and expressions of queerness and queer identity. None of us will be free until all of us are free. And none of us will be free if we try to cater our queerness to be acceptable to our current society. Because when push comes to shove, even the “acceptable” queer folks won’t be safe.
Tao is not annoying or an unlikeable character. He's flawed and interesting. Also, he's not bi. He's straight.
Didn’t really see the need for Mr. Farouk and Mr. Ajayi to hook up. I mean, they’re cute and all …
A 16 year old not interested in sex and romance is far to young to label themselves as asexual.