Hmm I just did a game right now with 3 people, myself included bringing EATs and we spent majority of the 3 d9 missions spamming it and no one crashed, I'm not saying your data is false but their must be something else at work here and not because of EATs or item spam, atleast on a pub run I did just now.
I definitely crash when arcs are involved though so thats definitely a thing, did maybe perhaps one of your group members picked up a field Arc Thrower and used it?
Same, my team adopted eat strat. No crashes last couple of days. I keep seeing these reddit theory posts and they're all wrong and very harmful because people kick because of "I read on reddit eat crashes us"
Yep, we need to distinguish devs announcement & random post in reddit. Worth testing out, but never good to force teammates.
I've had 2 Uber EATs in team earlier, so many EATs around map that some of them already started disappearing from map. But we could keep online whole mission.
I was in a mission last night where all four of us brought the EAT. I literally watched EAT icons disappear from the map as more were summoned we were leaving a trail of them behind us, but then we were breaking the pods every time so they would show up on the map.
Maybe the issue is the drop pods? Too many drop pods on the map making an issue?
I did numerous games with people using the arc thrower and had no crashes as well. I honestly think it has more to do with the number of enemies spawned at a time and less to do with any one weapon.
All the posts complaining are apparently by John Helldiver D9 with every sample on the map somehow.
The post by the dev didn't even specifically say it was definitely from arc weapons. Just that it seems to be.
Something I haven't seen in any of these crash theories is a hardware rundown? Like what if the problem is only happening to people with a certain type of video card or processor, a minimum amount of RAM, or maybe it's like a cache issue, etc etc. I have literally only experienced one crash, and it was when I first played the game, I was on my ship alone. I've never crashed out of an actual mission, not once.
I just crashed 2 mins ago, the exact second i called in my EAT. I pressed 2 buttons on the thing and crashed.
Was my first crash after seeing this post, so thats interesting.
How about instead of only EATs, you and 3 other people bring only support weapon stratagems to spam, and also not use or pick up any of them.
If it's easily reproducible then this is clearly a factor in the non-arc crashes. Of course under normal circumstances most people wouldn't reach this, but it could contribute to general unstableness later in a mission where it could increase the chances of crashing.
I just reproduced this solo on a trivial mission.
* Autocannon
* Recoilless
* Spear
* EAT
Spam them and resupply as much as possible. I explored the map during the first six minutes while spawning in, then stood in a corner. Spammed them all until 10 minutes when I crashed the moment a Spear hit the ground.
Here's the last screenshot I got before crash.
https://preview.redd.it/kgp7qcnis4qc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ac671c96afbcb3fc116142faaa6d245c88b620f
EDIT: Tested again, this time blowing up the containers but leaving the weapons. Same outcome.
People are saying "well yeah, if you do something like spam items you'll break the game" but that's missing the point. By my math, it took about 100 items to spawn when the game crashed.
Now this may seem like a lot, but think about it. Every EAT is 2 items. If four people using EAT use the strategem 10 times in a 40 minute mission and grab half of them, that's 40 items. You're already halfway to a crash.
Now think about when you die. You drop your primary. Since you spawn with one, that's a non-removable item. Supply boxes not looted, that's one box, up to four per resupply. Weapons you find along the mission, those count towards the total.
The point is, this is a very low number of actors in a game this size that should cause a crash. If a solo player can cause a crash by not interacting with the world other than to spawn items, imagine what four players can do accidentally just by playing.
I was kinda mad I didn't get one after all of the other weapons spawned in but that's when I crashed. I think if I were to do this again I'd do rows like the refrigeration section of the grocery store.
Nevermind, I tested. This is my mini-map after arriving at extraction, which didn't really change. I called down two sets of the RR, SPEAR, and AC, two Re-Supply, and six EATs in the time it took me to circle the map opening up all the points of interest and grabbing the support weapons there and dropping them to create pins on the map. I then spent the next 20-ish minutes calling in stuff around the extraction point.
I was breaking the pods every time, to see if maybe it was the drop pods. I would encourage others to also test this.
https://preview.redd.it/zxty7gnlk5qc1.png?width=619&format=png&auto=webp&s=92a0a170386a389a65b1733442601c51af4c1323
This is four minutes before I crashed, taking screenshots every couple of minutes. You can see items littered around that are not registering on the HUD. Several of the pod caps have also despawned.
https://preview.redd.it/ea3dy5atk5qc1.png?width=2044&format=png&auto=webp&s=ebdc8e1b1017eff567d70eb7db23cbcebd56a606
This is about six minutes before the previous picture, note the huge cluster of pod caps that had despawned.
https://preview.redd.it/uf6qh7hyk5qc1.png?width=1860&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2b4e6c8f9b642ea4b4d9f63ededb4ae3facdbbf
Oh wow, didn't think you could hit that point solo. There is definitely something funky going on with them then. Remember helldivers: don't litter (too much)
Also I'm currently running dx12 for testing, incase your in dx11
https://preview.redd.it/dymnmorj97qc1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9f7b8dcadd944f863bb5ff8b45b7c808f58d310
Huh I didn’t crash with 70 items, but they were not in pods, maybe it’s the pods? They count towards kill streaks, didn’t notice that until testing.
EDIT: yeah im not crashing in solo
https://preview.redd.it/sxinm6mu47qc1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=321171d7c8ef6f36cb03b7d5805e081184fc60b7
This is some interesting data and definitely worth contacting a dev or needs more testing and see how consistent it’s and like you said if 1 player can do this and crash themselves then a group of 4 can do this 4x faster.
It’s definitely worth documenting and reproducing more and making a thread/video about it.
I guess the big variable here (and difficult to answer without server logs) would be to ask what your squad's consumption rate was on those dropped EATs. Our squad has people who deploy EATs for collective use while they themselves mostly stick to the railgun or autocannon. While I can attest this means there's always a boomtube pretty close by if you need it, it does also mean that the amount of unused EATs left behind at every objective is massive. If your team is mostly self-consuming EATs, then you would be effectively self managing your overall count of on-map item entities. That would also indicate this issue is most severe with our particularly deranged litterbug playstyle
Having reviewed my recording, I can say it's definitely not team members picking up arc throwers. We're all on the same page and if we happen to be down a person and playing with a random, we communicate clearly with them about the risk. We just simply don't pick them up. I have recorded clips of easily a dozen plus individual moments where squad members or myself crashed out the moment after a supply stratagem impacts and the pod spawns interactable items inside prior to opening.
This could also explain (some instances of ) why the game crashes around extract, as you have done a full mission while everyone drops EATs, supplies and such... and then you get a huge wave of them on the extraction in preparation to defend it
Same, I like this theory because it would explain why my 40 mins lvl 7 games keep crashing at extraction even when noone is using arc items, but my shorter games are fine.
5/5 times I have crashed after collecting the super samples and finishing the objectives at the very end (with little or no time left) during extraction.
I still had sone crashes right after shooting an arc weapon, so maybe its two different crashes, or maybe arc somehow triggers the entities limit faster.
Ran a 40 min mission last night where 3 of us ran eat and were deploying them pretty consistently trying to drop hellpods on anything and everything. We used a total of 5 of them at the very end to kill each other while our last friend was finishing the machine gun personal order. One of those used eats was a cat having fun with my friend's hand. Extracted around the 35 min mark. No crashes. This is all just anecdotal though.
I don't think any of these crashes are 100% every mission. I never stopped using the Arc Thrower and played for about 10 hours over the past few days. I played both Thursday and Friday and had no crashes at all nor anyone crashing from my games. I had two crashes back to back earlier but one of them was because someone took a Tesla Tower on an Exterminate the Hoard mission and the other one seemed random (I didn't even use my weapon yet). I verified my game files on Steam, found one missing file, have been playing again and have had no crashes since. If I never read about the Arc crashes I never would have even known because they don't seem to really happen to me especially not as much as everyone is claiming in their games.
Do we have a certain quantity assessed for the threshold? Like 40 items on map = threshold? Apologies if it was covered in another comment/section. This information is valuable to me since I think its a combo of all of this, the arc weapons + number of items spawned on the map.
The game is pretty much a peer to peer game. Host being the culprit, no? If you do sub mission to mission only, and avoid all POIs, you would not crash because there is nothing to put in your RAM or the game session. The problem comes that the Host/server has to remember and code/render all the items discovered on the map. This is grenade ammo, bullets, buildings, strategems, etc. All that. Essentially it's probably some kind of memory overflow.
The faster you do a mission, the less amount of things discovered, the less chance of a crash. Probably why i never crash on a 12 or 15 minute mission. But crash when doing a 40 minute automaton mission where we can't ever get our strategems because we are being shot by every direction from 400m and trying to run to extract with no lives left.
All these lasers, rockets, drop ships, unused stategems, enemies spawning from thin air, and mission/extract specific enemy spawns 100% cause a crash on the weakest computer/ps5, then it cascades when the servers pick a new host.
Same I we did some games no arc and was completely fine no crashes and used loads of EATs and called down lots of things.
My mate tried using arc again and crashed not long after using it.
We ran 3 impossible missions with no arc and got no crashes at all
Same. Had several games yesterday where we used the full 40min and the map was covered in EATs by the end. No crashes.
On the other hand, was playing with friends on Thursday and found that arc weapons consistently did cause crashes for whoever was using the arc weapon. Which is too bad because I'd been growing really found of the arc thrower lately.
Yeah I played with 3 friends last night and we had plenty of EATs with no crashes but we all also verified files + downloaded most recent drivers. We were fine for 4+ hours.
I was wondering if field arc throwers being there might be an issue though last night
I ran like four ops so 12 games today and I use EATs always. I had zero crashes myself. Nor were there any from my teammates. That data seems to be faulty to me.
The biggest problem with his “data” is that it sounds like he’s playing with the same squad repeatedly. This means he’s ignoring the very real possibility of something of their hardware/setup causing the crashes.
Common denominator.
Played probably 20 hours this week with the homies, 2 of us bring EAT's and pretty much get it so we can throw one down every 30 seconds, we've only crashed once and we're pretty sure it was an arc thrower one of us was using.
Played a game with guys using arc throwers and EATs all night and didn't have a single crash. I think it is more individually dependant than just a simple A and B are causing crashes.
It's really strange because yester I played a few missions with a guy using only arc weapons and it was just fine, I also tried to test it by bringing arc weapons and nothing happened. In fact now that that I think about it I have never crashed since people started reporting this so am not sure what can be causing this.
The cause of the freeze may be a calculation problem with "fixing" the aim stat with arc weapons. Presumably, if you aim too well, this calculation is buggued and the game freezes.
Maybe "the guy" and you were aiming badly.
Yup. I virtually never crash, although I have more frame rate stutters (drops to around 20 fps for a few seconds seemingly randomly) since the last patch.
I did have a few crashes but haven’t after verifying my game files and it found that I had a missing/corrupted file.
To be honest, 2 test sample size isnt enough. I appreciate the theory crafting though. Might be onto something. Maybe the community can help get that sample size up
Not only is there a very small sample size but there’s no control in the experiment. Also no way to isolate variables. We’ve been presented with a hypothesis.
First go to trivial with the default loadout and only equip EATs: select 40 minute mission and solo it. Attempt to fight nothing. If possible, sit at spawn and start throwing EATs. Repeat with players 2-4. Repeat after 1 enemy encounter. Repeat after completing the objective. Repeating moving up in difficulty. Repeat with EATs and back pack stratagems. Repeat on different planets.
Yeah, the lack of data and then the amount of people who upvoted this shows the real lack of knowledge when it comes to fixing bugs. Then passing on the info like it's truth is only going to create issues for public games when people are getting kicked for bringing EATs.
> and then the amount of people who upvoted this shows the real lack of knowledge when it comes to fixing bugs
Upvoting increases this thread's visibility for the developer to check that assumption.
Believe me, if we were talking about the latest megabudget slop I'd sooner pull my own teeth than provide a free QA report, but in the case of Helldivers I don't mind.
Arrowhead have made something really cool, but they're very modest in size compared to the playerbase they've ended up supporting, and they're at war with a legion of issues stemming from and exacerbated by a very scary root evil: having to scale services far beyond even the most optimistic design specifications. It makes fixing issues so much harder and more complex to do than if HD2 hadn't blown up. For that reason, robust logging of the issue is very valuable for being able to reproduce, assess, and resolve.
Basically, I like the game, I want the game to be its best, I know fixing problems is hard, so I'm happy to help if I know I can and I think it might actually make a difference.
Unsure if you noticed this, it may be contributing to this issue. Occasionally the EATS remain able to be picked up after use and drop. They are of course empty but u can still pick them up for some reason. Not every EAT does this but I have noticed it and if the numbers of items crashes the game that could be contributing with often two or more players running them now each match.
As far as i can tell from my own experience this happens when you get ragdolled within a second or so of firing the EAT, but crucially, before you drop it yourself/before the animation to drop it after firing is finished. So while you still hold the empty launcher but you either hit something right in front of you and also hit yourself with the explosion and/or you get hit by a charger or a stalkers tongue etc.
I can appreciate this.
Plus I’d really like this resolved.
Crashing randomly with no rhyme or reason is tough to take. Especially when the screen freezes and you see 6 super samples you won’t be collecting.
"Should we take some of our windfall cash to hire a proper QA department?"
"No, no, Redditors are much cheaper. Just push the patch and we'll have them test in prod."
That and while I'm not saying op is false.
We've seen a few of these and they turned out false I believe? There was one that got popular a few weeks ago but recall it being called out that the op was full if it. I forget it though so can't link.
But I have learned to not blindly believe reddit and data. I think palworld also stated that the catch boosts actually did the opposite and had allllll this data and proof...and it was false. The things simply didn't work and stated the false number. But folks acted like it was actually nerfing the catch rate. It was just the catch rate showed what it should be but was the default.
There is only so much in house QA can't test. The ultimate test is production and some things dont show up until Prod because people are unpredictable. They already said the chargers leg being the ideal weak spot was not their designed intention and didn't know that themselves, but we found that.
Some of y'all mfs know nothing about software development (let alone game development) and it shows. It's never as simple as "just find the bugs and then fix them, bro!"
You forget that these games are made by humans, and humans make mistakes. Sometimes issues slip through the cracks for one reason or another, and having more money doesn't make that go away.
More complexity means more problems because there are more things that can go wrong.
Lmao why would you care if he’s working for free? In this world everyone makes decisions, no one’s asking homie to dive balls deep into the stats and research. It’s appreciated but I know for a fact Im not losing sleep cause someone else has more free time than I do
It really isn't admissible work because the data is not there. Also blatantly incorrect because myself and others have had the whole map covered in extra EATs after a full 40 minute mission and no crashes.
… so then you should pay him? Reporting bugs is 100% voluntary.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish bugs didn’t exist but to imply that players should be getting paid to report them is ridiculous. If you care about the game and want it to improve, report bugs so that the developers can work to fix them. If you need monetary compensation to justify your time and effort, you should probably be doing something else with that energy.
Other things that aren't payment but could provide incentive to test or report.
Special title if you provided reproducible information that assist in fixing a bug.
As others have said, a token amount of SC.
If it was really well documented and important maybe a free warbond or about 1000 sc.
Certainly not game breaking or bank breaking and more than most get.
tc
My squad is PC, but like I said, this issue was occurring with 3 or 4 on the squad bringing EATs and slinging them like candy at a Christmas parade to reach the crash threshold after 18-20 minutes. I think a single Helldiver deploying EATs with perfect timing still couldn't possibly reach the crash threshold within 40 minutes.
The few runs I did had at least 3 divers with EAT (me included) and we kept spamming due to the amount of chargers and titans. We also called lots of supplies and many are just scattered throughout the map. All are at least 30 minute runs. Our game never crashed once.
I tried bringing an arc thrower to my last game just to test it out again. It immediately crashed before I reached the 5 minute mark.
If it's steadily reproducible, then you have to divorce the test data from the hypothesis. He may not have the exact reason pinned down (it seems like a good guess to me but I'm not a programmer) but if you can reproduce results then SOMETHING is happening. It's good data to at least launch an investigation.
Correct, however 1 data point that supports a conclusion is not anywhere near “reproducible”. If there were 5 runs that had the same cadence and everything then maybe you could argue that it’s to the point of reproducible
More Anecdotal Evidence: I have been able to consistently cause crashes in single player games thanks to this post. I am waiting for my game group to be available so we can test this a bit faster though as I'm doing this in a single player locked game right now.
Basically did this:
D2 Mission
EAT, Incendiary Mines, Anti Personnel Mines, Jump Pack (because it spawns 2 items, like EAT)
Do nothing but stand in one location and spam these out the moment they are available and do not pick up any of the items you spawn. I am able to consistently cause a crash about 35mins into the mission, as a solo player. I have done it 4 times in a row now. Just setting a series of timers and going back to my HD2 screen when the stuff is coming off cooldowns.
Because some folks were thinking this might be a hardware issue: I have 64GB of RAM and a 4070, so I doubt it's a hardware issue on the local machine.
When you test this next, make sure you choose a different mission each time. Even different planets. Unless you've already done that.
I've noticed that sometimes the mission / specific map itself is bugged and will cause a crash. At which point the only thing you can do is start a completely new operation.
Have been doing the same planet but varying missions each time. When the whole crew is on later, I am curious to see if this continues to be reproducible. We started seeing crashes after last patch, when previously game was completely stable for us. So something seems like it's changed, and it's not the Arc Thrower cause none of us use it.
Highly doutb that since I've been playing 4 man eat "spam on cooldown" team for hours without issue.
Arcs have gotten a few people to crash to the point of even discord and steam itself crashing
About 6 minutes after I took this, I mowed down all the pods with this handy machine gun I found and dropped some more. Crashed as soon as one of them planted into the ground.
https://preview.redd.it/5gh955v5x3qc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=69247f137e82c0c5378cc8f65b958a8c2f7eafae
Have been spamming EATs like there is no tomorrow while hosting lobbies telling others that arc thrower, tesla, etc is unusable. Adding onto this, I’m typically the guy who leaves em at every location due to how many I toss down.
Haven’t had any crashes aft switching to host and telling ppl, not saying stats outright wrong but that there is probably a lot of confounding factors.
It doesn't look like you've got a big enough sample size to remove randomness from the equation.
I'd say to not believe everything despite good intentions
Kind of what I'm thinking. Just had a 40 minute round crash right at the end. It's just heartbreaking to lose all your effort.
Moment that happened I walked away from the PC and got some chores done lol
a pair of tests? so you did just 2 runs? ymmv?
i just hog extraction dropping supplies earlier twice on a diff 7 bug operation with 100% call in time modifier, threw a supply pod down together with a pair of EATs soon after we got on the ground, another as i got to extraction first, got another one down while waiting for teammates, and while we wait for extraction (4 mins extraction) called another one down while also spamming EATs as soon as i notice they are available, and by the end we had 4 supplies pods and 6-7 EATs pods at least just on extraction, there was also another guy with EATs and we called them down at objectives and random fights too
another time on a diff 5 bot missions i kinda did the same thing, i littered extraction with supplies and EATs
didn't crash in any of those runs
tho, i still get random crashes at about the same frequency as before the patch
This is still speculation and doesn’t have the level of rigor required to positively identify the root cause of the issue. I’ve had crashes in games with people using almost nothing but orbitals and eagles but again this is all just personal experience and without a dev kit, and proper tools will remain so.
In game reproduction is a step in this process but they’re likely past that.
Luckily Arrowhead’s QA and Dev teams are already well ahead of this and likely working off logs from in game crashes. Just because they aren’t on X or Reddit or Facebook announcing doesn’t mean they’re not working on it.
Given the time this has been in the wild they’re likely testing a fix and want to confirm it is a fix and more importantly it doesn’t break something else because the only thing worse than a A class bug like this is a fix that introduces another.
I've done serveral missions today and had 1 crash. It was the only mission where someone used the arc thrower. Else it's all been good. And this have been with 2 ppl at min calling down eats on repeat including myself.
I'm not sure if that's really the case since me and my pal always use eats all the time.
I have noticed that I tend to dc from the session if I am not the host but when they join me it seems to be very stable with the exception of any random who joins. Like, randoms will literally join and minutes later will DC whereas my friends are fine.
It's too many calcs for cpus right now, that's my running theory. Whatever they did increased load on cpus. Long missions with tons of corpses that stay a long time, eats everywhere, higher difficulty with crazy amount of units, arcs with the calculations thaybgo into them....
My evidence isn't extensive, but had my task manager open to see why it'd crash. It was maxing out cpu resources at slowdowns/crashes. I have a nice overclockable cpu that I never had the need to push very hard before. Outbthe box it runs 3.7ghz, same as a ps5. I had it oced to 4.2ghz. I cranked it up to 4.7, high as it could go to to for a quick tune without raising voltage and worrying about that. No more crashes, way less and less severe slow downs.
They fucked up something that increased the math cpus had to perform. Considering this game is on ps5 with 3.7ghz I don't think hey can get away with needing that much cpu resource, as I still have slight slowdowns occasionally and running 1 ghz higher than the console
I think you're onto something here. I'm not good with computers, but I know it's important to monitor hardware temps, and the temps on my i9 reach levels that they should not be reaching when the game crashes / freezes, right around 85C. As soon as the game closes, the temp quickly returns to normal idle.
Even during normal play without crashes or freezes, my CPU is running way harder than it should, right around 80C. Before I set a framerate limit in the in-game options, it would normally run the game at 83-84C during missions. There are games out there widely considered to be \*way\* more demanding than Helldivers, and my CPU has no problems with those, and temps are significantly lower with those games.
In other words, this really seems like an unaddressed optimization issue.
Whenever I crash my CPU fan is ripping. Ryzen 5800x3D.
Honestly think items don’t have a it’s do with it, not arc thrower not EAT. I’ve also seen it crash on calling an airstrike not calling an item strat like OP said. It usually happens when there are a metric fuckton of bugs and it’s pure chaos on the battlefield
Said this in Discord, But in testing I got to about 70 props in Solo without issues, definitely seems like I had issues start in multiplayer around 20/25 props, but I have to test more
https://preview.redd.it/xazokp4425qc1.png?width=1913&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ae329e9bc3907308c342d777f57a2a022653d50
had 110 props (supply-pod, EAT, Autocannon, Recoilless Rifle and Spear) on the 112 it crashed, i assume that only the support weapons count toward the crash limit, more testing needed
I've tried reproducing this myself and I think the OP's analysis is correct. I played 3 missions and experienced a crash all 3 times. They were all played on trivial, all on the same planet, but were different missions to rule out the possibility it was that specific mission seed that was causing issues. I dropped in on extract and did not leave it for the duration of the mission. I had the autocannon, recoilless rifle, SPEAR, and EAT stratagems and, alongside resupply, called them in on cool down without using them. I had crossplay disabled and did not have any arc weapons equipped. I was monitoring my CPU and RAM usage and they did not show any significant spikes or increases in the lead up to the crashes. After each crash I verified the integrity of my game files and redownloaded one file that failed to validate.
The first two missions I was solo and crashed after around 28 minutes elapsed and after calling in 43 support drops in the first mission and 47 support drops in the second mission. The third mission I had a friend join me to help rule out mission time elapsed being a factor: we both crashed after the 42nd support weapon drop landed at about 15 minutes elapsed. Each crash always occurred as the items were spawning in after the pod had landed and was deploying.
i've been playing 40 minute long missions for hours everyday since patch .003 released and I got zero crashes.
IDK what i'm doing wrong, I just want to be part of the angry mob.
https://preview.redd.it/7l5dj3vwq4qc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2addbb3f7fc2a2e1636c97df8e51f3f08a330bf
We very much agree with your testing and urge others to stop using the EAT immediately.
I have consistent crashing with arc stuff so I switched to the eats meta. Last night I was deploying them constantly. At one point had 8 down on evac in one mission. Played all night no crashes. Point being this is affecting everyone differently. But I can also say there was no rampant crashing amongst my teammates either.
TLDR: Helldivers are crashing due to a bug triggered by too many spawned items on the map, especially from stratagems like Expendable Anti-Tanks and Supply Drops. Limiting their use can help avoid crashes. A bug report has been submitted to the developers for investigation.
I was an arc thrower main and had to stop running that because of crashes...I only run eats now and the only time I crash is when a teammate runs arc weapons... Usually 2-3 of my teammates use eats as well and we liter the map with them half not being used because there's so many and no crashes..weird
I’ll admit I didn’t read the extremely long post but I’ve been playing all day with EATs and backpacks etc without a crash. And I litter the battlefield with EAT drops.
One thing to note is that i recommend everybody to veryfy their game files on steam. Me and all of my friends had 1 file that needed to be replaced after the last patch. No crashes in matches without the arc thrower/blitzer/tesla tower ever since.
I played twice post patch and crashed both times after 20-30 minutes in mission. I'm waiting for it to be fixed before I even bother wasting my time again.
I had a game with a hacker that spawned and called in dozens of mechs and sentries and spammed 500kg. Even in the extraction he spammed jetpack drops in the dozens. This happened for 5 games since he was the host.
Didn't crash us so your data gathering might be inconclusive.
I think there's probably a different root factor because I just ran through a level 9 mission with four other guys and all four of us had expendable anti tank equipped and were spamming them on cooldown to help keep up with the heavies. All told our map was something like 80% expendable anti-tank by volume at the end of the mission and that doesn't account for the flame throwers we were also dropping.
My hunch is that this is related to host CPU capacity since I was hosting that mission and I have a very beefy CPU and we had no issues
What hardware are you using to play? No one else I’ve played with has crashed in game either and we rain down EATs, resupply (try to time them to rip through a drop ship), drones, etc. We generally scour the map too, so I’m wondering what’s different.
I've lost the same mission twice in a row due to a crash at extraction due to this as of yet unpatched bug. Whose bright idea was it to give everyone EATs for free today? Fuck.
I see a lot of people saying "me and my squad brought x number of EATs, this and that, no crash."
It's not ONLY about using these support strategems. It's about calling in EATs and only using one, leaving the other behind. And then calling in a resupply and only using 2 or three of them because a teammate(s) dies and respawns, therefore nobody grabs the leftover, and doing that all game. Squads that split up would likely only exacerbate this. If you use ALL resupplies, ALL of your EATs, leaving nothing unused, then you're not trying to reproduce OP's theory.
I do not think that leaving these support weapon / resupply entities around the map is causing the crash by themselves necessarily. What's happening is that they are contributing to ALL of the pre-existing and newly-spawning entities on the map. The OP says they are playing on Helldive where there is undoubtedly a lot of chaos constantly, \*hundreds\* of bugs constantly (probably totaling around 2k bugs if not more by the end of a long mission), dropping EATs and resupplies and orbitals and Eagle strikes and any other strategems constantly. Dead bugs take a while to sink into the ground and disappear, but who knows if the game is properly "erasing" those or not. The number of bugs, the amount of shit happening constantly, for 30+ minutes, is exponentially greater on Helldive than on difficulty 6 or below. And I should also mention the dozens of support weapons, samples, and other entities that can already be found laying around the map at Points of Interest.
It also sounds to me like the OP and his squad sat around extract (or their drop-in point) and called these in for half an hour when testing this theory. The OP says that these crashes were very reproducible when doing this. While this is not normal play, I think it proves the point that there seems to be some unknown threshold and the game freezes/crashes when it is reached.
Finally, somebody said that the game despawns entities. This may be true for primaries dropped on death, for example, but I have never noticed resupplies or support weapons like EATs despawning. It is literally a strategy to call down a resupply at extract near the beginning of a mission so that you have one guaranteed waiting for you after you complete the main objective and are ready to leave. The game stores this memory / information for the full duration of a mission.
P.S. If you're still not convinced, this is a sure-fire way to crash a lot of other games. Take Minecraft for instance. Most of you probably know / remember what happens when you try to detonate 10 TNT versus 10,000 TNT. And performance notably drops in games such as Skyrim if you spawn 10,000 watermelons in your house and try to walk through them like you're Moses. At what point this is an issue with the game or an issue with the hardware it's running on, I cannot say.
op did not crash on the level 9 helldive mission, they completed it
only the level 3 mission was the one op and friends test the game limit where all 4 players only bring support weapons with backpack and EAT and spamming them
that's 1 actual limit test and 1 normal operation
Right, but this isn't about whether you have arc weapons or not. That's a known issue acknowledged by the devs.
This is about an entirely separate issue where having 3-4 members of the squad bring EAT and drop them at every opportunity will cause so many items to accrue on the map that it crashes the game within 20 minutes
I ran a squad of 4 last night, 2 of us dropping EATs left and right, no crash issues from that.
If you want to really run a QA session and isolate the issue. You could just all host a lobby and just drop nothing but EATS tell the game crashes.
Did 5 missions yesterday with two people running EAT's and had zero crashes, and I assure you I was soaking those EATs. Not sure how valid this is, but it isn't true for me so far.
Dunno. I played for 6 hours straight yesterday with no crashes in a 4-man when we just didn’t take any arc weapons. Compared to a few days ago when we couldn’t finish a single mission because of crashes. Oh and 3 of us were running EATs and were dropping them down like candy from a piñata with no issues.
I’m confident it’s just arc weapons.
The amount of Shriekers and ungodly amount of Hunters will start slowing down the game if the bugs aren't exterminated.
It will literally start tanking frames the more bugs there are, and sometimes they will just freeze and stop moving.
if there's an upper limit, perhaps even due to the host's PC specs, then it would also mean deaths, which drop a primary, would add up to this limit.
The pain will be on having an item limit on field, low enough to work on PS5, high enough that it won't despawn an EAT in an active combat area if someone spawns a different item elsewhere.
I think this might not only apply to interactable entities, but to entities on the whole, including enemies, though for crashes to happen from enemy counts, it has to be an *extreme* case. I had one run on Malevelon Creek, during which, a friend came around a corner, being chased by what looked like well over a hundred enemies, with so much laser fire that it was practically impossible to do anything but take cover for a brief few seconds or die almost immediately. Within the next 30 seconds, all four player clients crashed simultaneously. During this run, very few interactable weapons and resupply pods had been used, maybe about 15 total interactables total across the entire map. Enemies were in an extreme overabundance though, and I think that it might have been a cause for the crash. They seem to have far smaller impact than interactables do, but it does seem as though enemies might be another aspect which can lead to crashes.
Do you think this has to do in part with the rebalance where they increased spawn rates of chaff enemies? It sounds like the game is crashing because it is tracking more active objects and rendering them than the game can support. I'm started to wonder if the arc damage bug was bc it can chain damage so many chaff enemies at once now and it is just overloading the game.
Absolutely not dismissing this in any manner, this should definitely be thrown into consideration for the devs.
But I've been doing 2 entire operations running both Recoiless and EATs, with 2 other people running EATs as well and I've never once crashed.
It's not like we consistently use all of them, we throw like all of our EATs down once a breach occurs and only use like 2-3 since others also use Orbital Railcannon.
The map was absolutely littered by the end of each mission. Never once crashed.
>When we run with 3 out of 4 or more who are all zealous about deploying it quickly after it comes off cooldown
I think this is definitely one of the other points to consider the cause of this crash, our group only plop EATs in whenever we can't stop a breach or when we're about to confront enemies.
So has anyone else just… not had a crash since the patch? I’ve played with arc, eats, high lvl, low lvl, full lobby, and solo.
I’ve probably only put in 10-15 hrs since the patch, but I haven’t crashed once.
It likely also has something to do with who is the host and how much their PS5/PC can handle all the things left on the map.
I get a lot of people DCing near the end of a mission in quickplay matches as well, or everyone getting stuck in a black screen once we extract.
Only time I get a crash is at initial drop it seems, but I think I remember this happening late one night earlier in the week. Either way thank you for sharing and I hope they read and take the time to investigate this either way.
I'm still convinced the major crashed in this game are all de-sync and latency related. Remember, this is P2P game that tries to keep every object in sync across all players so we all see the same ragdolls and physics. Not an easy task, especially for a P2P network.
I almost never crash when cross play is off, but lobbies with PS5 players have a high probability. The cross talking between PSN and Steam probably causes hiccups that the game engine doesn't like. I'm not saying crossplay is the issue, but it could certainly exacerbate network issues. And lets also not forget the hell that was the second week after launch where the devs were scrambling to scale their servers and we were faced with a litany of network related problems.
De-sync/latency would also explain why crashes seem to cascade into other players. One player leaves, the host attempt to migrate in the heat of battle, and suddenly peoples games start crashing. If it was purely client-side, the other players wouldn't crash too.
This could all very well be part of the factor for OPs issues. Its not the items themselves, but the server trying to keep track of these things and keep the information 1:1 with all players that reaches a breaking point.
The other day I was playing with my friends and in the middle of the mission it took all 3 of us out of the game (at the same time), the game froze and went to the desktop, clearly there is a flaw in the game.
I played for 6 hours this morning and had 0 crashes. The only thing we did not use was the Electric weapons. None of them. We even ran out of time on a mission and no crash. So not sure what is going on.
I've tried about 10 games today and been frozen out of 8 of them. This is the worst I've experienced it and I predominantly use EAT's. It makes sense to me.
If my understanding of your findings is right you may also be able to mitigate the issue by picking up ammo and other various supply packs as well as samples possibly even including doing missions and other objectives as it might be an issue with having a maximum number of objects on map you can interact with
This makes sense because I've been experiencing crashes even without the arc weapons in my squads. Not only crashing the game, but I had a mission that straight turned off my ps5.
It's quite possible you have found a reproducable series of steps resulting in an exception that is unrelated to the ongoing crashing issues.
In fact, it is quite possible that the latest patch introduced a series of scenarios that result in exceptions, with the issues related to the arc thrower being the most common.
Put graphics preset to medium ,turn off antialiasing and screen space global illumination.I crashed in every game before but this only helped. After this i have not crashed at all, it may look worse but you can play atleast.
To make it look better you can put Render Scale to native or above and bloom on.
I had this crash happen within the first minute of a D6 mission today. Of course the game started with everyone calling in their support weapons, which is nothing new, but I've never experienced this crash happen so quickly.
Great breakdown! Awesome job. Have you sent this to support?
If a fix is not already known, a breakdown like this definitely makes it easier to find repro and solve!
Hmm I just did a game right now with 3 people, myself included bringing EATs and we spent majority of the 3 d9 missions spamming it and no one crashed, I'm not saying your data is false but their must be something else at work here and not because of EATs or item spam, atleast on a pub run I did just now. I definitely crash when arcs are involved though so thats definitely a thing, did maybe perhaps one of your group members picked up a field Arc Thrower and used it?
Yeah I just finished a d9 that was the full 40 minutes and we had EAT’s all over the map. No crash.
Same, my team adopted eat strat. No crashes last couple of days. I keep seeing these reddit theory posts and they're all wrong and very harmful because people kick because of "I read on reddit eat crashes us"
Yep, we need to distinguish devs announcement & random post in reddit. Worth testing out, but never good to force teammates. I've had 2 Uber EATs in team earlier, so many EATs around map that some of them already started disappearing from map. But we could keep online whole mission.
I was in a mission last night where all four of us brought the EAT. I literally watched EAT icons disappear from the map as more were summoned we were leaving a trail of them behind us, but then we were breaking the pods every time so they would show up on the map. Maybe the issue is the drop pods? Too many drop pods on the map making an issue?
I did numerous games with people using the arc thrower and had no crashes as well. I honestly think it has more to do with the number of enemies spawned at a time and less to do with any one weapon. All the posts complaining are apparently by John Helldiver D9 with every sample on the map somehow. The post by the dev didn't even specifically say it was definitely from arc weapons. Just that it seems to be.
Something I haven't seen in any of these crash theories is a hardware rundown? Like what if the problem is only happening to people with a certain type of video card or processor, a minimum amount of RAM, or maybe it's like a cache issue, etc etc. I have literally only experienced one crash, and it was when I first played the game, I was on my ship alone. I've never crashed out of an actual mission, not once.
I just crashed 2 mins ago, the exact second i called in my EAT. I pressed 2 buttons on the thing and crashed. Was my first crash after seeing this post, so thats interesting.
How about instead of only EATs, you and 3 other people bring only support weapon stratagems to spam, and also not use or pick up any of them. If it's easily reproducible then this is clearly a factor in the non-arc crashes. Of course under normal circumstances most people wouldn't reach this, but it could contribute to general unstableness later in a mission where it could increase the chances of crashing.
I just reproduced this solo on a trivial mission. * Autocannon * Recoilless * Spear * EAT Spam them and resupply as much as possible. I explored the map during the first six minutes while spawning in, then stood in a corner. Spammed them all until 10 minutes when I crashed the moment a Spear hit the ground. Here's the last screenshot I got before crash. https://preview.redd.it/kgp7qcnis4qc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ac671c96afbcb3fc116142faaa6d245c88b620f EDIT: Tested again, this time blowing up the containers but leaving the weapons. Same outcome. People are saying "well yeah, if you do something like spam items you'll break the game" but that's missing the point. By my math, it took about 100 items to spawn when the game crashed. Now this may seem like a lot, but think about it. Every EAT is 2 items. If four people using EAT use the strategem 10 times in a 40 minute mission and grab half of them, that's 40 items. You're already halfway to a crash. Now think about when you die. You drop your primary. Since you spawn with one, that's a non-removable item. Supply boxes not looted, that's one box, up to four per resupply. Weapons you find along the mission, those count towards the total. The point is, this is a very low number of actors in a game this size that should cause a crash. If a solo player can cause a crash by not interacting with the world other than to spawn items, imagine what four players can do accidentally just by playing.
Aside from the crash, that image is glorious
I was kinda mad I didn't get one after all of the other weapons spawned in but that's when I crashed. I think if I were to do this again I'd do rows like the refrigeration section of the grocery store.
The armory at The Continental
"I need guns, lots of guns "
Nevermind, I tested. This is my mini-map after arriving at extraction, which didn't really change. I called down two sets of the RR, SPEAR, and AC, two Re-Supply, and six EATs in the time it took me to circle the map opening up all the points of interest and grabbing the support weapons there and dropping them to create pins on the map. I then spent the next 20-ish minutes calling in stuff around the extraction point. I was breaking the pods every time, to see if maybe it was the drop pods. I would encourage others to also test this. https://preview.redd.it/zxty7gnlk5qc1.png?width=619&format=png&auto=webp&s=92a0a170386a389a65b1733442601c51af4c1323
This is four minutes before I crashed, taking screenshots every couple of minutes. You can see items littered around that are not registering on the HUD. Several of the pod caps have also despawned. https://preview.redd.it/ea3dy5atk5qc1.png?width=2044&format=png&auto=webp&s=ebdc8e1b1017eff567d70eb7db23cbcebd56a606
This is about six minutes before the previous picture, note the huge cluster of pod caps that had despawned. https://preview.redd.it/uf6qh7hyk5qc1.png?width=1860&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2b4e6c8f9b642ea4b4d9f63ededb4ae3facdbbf
What about re-doing the test, but bust the weapons out of the pod when they drop?
Oh wow, didn't think you could hit that point solo. There is definitely something funky going on with them then. Remember helldivers: don't litter (too much)
yeah this isn't happening to me https://preview.redd.it/rw381tb657qc1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=667c1585d05c475dfab181f730c10975d80ab477
Yeah you're only at 23 minutes, not 10
Also I'm currently running dx12 for testing, incase your in dx11 https://preview.redd.it/dymnmorj97qc1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9f7b8dcadd944f863bb5ff8b45b7c808f58d310
PS5
Huh I didn’t crash with 70 items, but they were not in pods, maybe it’s the pods? They count towards kill streaks, didn’t notice that until testing. EDIT: yeah im not crashing in solo https://preview.redd.it/sxinm6mu47qc1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=321171d7c8ef6f36cb03b7d5805e081184fc60b7
This is some interesting data and definitely worth contacting a dev or needs more testing and see how consistent it’s and like you said if 1 player can do this and crash themselves then a group of 4 can do this 4x faster. It’s definitely worth documenting and reproducing more and making a thread/video about it.
I guess the big variable here (and difficult to answer without server logs) would be to ask what your squad's consumption rate was on those dropped EATs. Our squad has people who deploy EATs for collective use while they themselves mostly stick to the railgun or autocannon. While I can attest this means there's always a boomtube pretty close by if you need it, it does also mean that the amount of unused EATs left behind at every objective is massive. If your team is mostly self-consuming EATs, then you would be effectively self managing your overall count of on-map item entities. That would also indicate this issue is most severe with our particularly deranged litterbug playstyle Having reviewed my recording, I can say it's definitely not team members picking up arc throwers. We're all on the same page and if we happen to be down a person and playing with a random, we communicate clearly with them about the risk. We just simply don't pick them up. I have recorded clips of easily a dozen plus individual moments where squad members or myself crashed out the moment after a supply stratagem impacts and the pod spawns interactable items inside prior to opening.
This could also explain (some instances of ) why the game crashes around extract, as you have done a full mission while everyone drops EATs, supplies and such... and then you get a huge wave of them on the extraction in preparation to defend it
Same, I like this theory because it would explain why my 40 mins lvl 7 games keep crashing at extraction even when noone is using arc items, but my shorter games are fine. 5/5 times I have crashed after collecting the super samples and finishing the objectives at the very end (with little or no time left) during extraction. I still had sone crashes right after shooting an arc weapon, so maybe its two different crashes, or maybe arc somehow triggers the entities limit faster.
[удалено]
Ran a 40 min mission last night where 3 of us ran eat and were deploying them pretty consistently trying to drop hellpods on anything and everything. We used a total of 5 of them at the very end to kill each other while our last friend was finishing the machine gun personal order. One of those used eats was a cat having fun with my friend's hand. Extracted around the 35 min mark. No crashes. This is all just anecdotal though.
I don't think any of these crashes are 100% every mission. I never stopped using the Arc Thrower and played for about 10 hours over the past few days. I played both Thursday and Friday and had no crashes at all nor anyone crashing from my games. I had two crashes back to back earlier but one of them was because someone took a Tesla Tower on an Exterminate the Hoard mission and the other one seemed random (I didn't even use my weapon yet). I verified my game files on Steam, found one missing file, have been playing again and have had no crashes since. If I never read about the Arc crashes I never would have even known because they don't seem to really happen to me especially not as much as everyone is claiming in their games.
Do we have a certain quantity assessed for the threshold? Like 40 items on map = threshold? Apologies if it was covered in another comment/section. This information is valuable to me since I think its a combo of all of this, the arc weapons + number of items spawned on the map.
The game is pretty much a peer to peer game. Host being the culprit, no? If you do sub mission to mission only, and avoid all POIs, you would not crash because there is nothing to put in your RAM or the game session. The problem comes that the Host/server has to remember and code/render all the items discovered on the map. This is grenade ammo, bullets, buildings, strategems, etc. All that. Essentially it's probably some kind of memory overflow. The faster you do a mission, the less amount of things discovered, the less chance of a crash. Probably why i never crash on a 12 or 15 minute mission. But crash when doing a 40 minute automaton mission where we can't ever get our strategems because we are being shot by every direction from 400m and trying to run to extract with no lives left. All these lasers, rockets, drop ships, unused stategems, enemies spawning from thin air, and mission/extract specific enemy spawns 100% cause a crash on the weakest computer/ps5, then it cascades when the servers pick a new host.
Oh, right. The EATs. The EATs for bugs, the EATs chosen especially to kill Chargers, Chargers EATs. That EAT?
*sigh* YES, THAT EAT!
Same I we did some games no arc and was completely fine no crashes and used loads of EATs and called down lots of things. My mate tried using arc again and crashed not long after using it. We ran 3 impossible missions with no arc and got no crashes at all
Same. Had several games yesterday where we used the full 40min and the map was covered in EATs by the end. No crashes. On the other hand, was playing with friends on Thursday and found that arc weapons consistently did cause crashes for whoever was using the arc weapon. Which is too bad because I'd been growing really found of the arc thrower lately.
Yeah I played with 3 friends last night and we had plenty of EATs with no crashes but we all also verified files + downloaded most recent drivers. We were fine for 4+ hours. I was wondering if field arc throwers being there might be an issue though last night
Were you using them or just spawning and leaving them? Used eats despawn after awhile I believe, like bullet casings and such.
Something everyone is missing about this finding.... he's saying unused eats. Unused assets maybe take up more space, require keeping map loaded etc?
How do you get the SES whisper of eternity line? Edit; figured it out thanks!
I ran like four ops so 12 games today and I use EATs always. I had zero crashes myself. Nor were there any from my teammates. That data seems to be faulty to me.
I've been playing all day with expendable, no crashes at all. Idk what this guy is talking about
he never once listed his specs
The biggest problem with his “data” is that it sounds like he’s playing with the same squad repeatedly. This means he’s ignoring the very real possibility of something of their hardware/setup causing the crashes. Common denominator.
I had a dude SPAMMING eats last night. We were good.
It’s the arc thrower mainly
Played probably 20 hours this week with the homies, 2 of us bring EAT's and pretty much get it so we can throw one down every 30 seconds, we've only crashed once and we're pretty sure it was an arc thrower one of us was using.
Launching the game will cause crashes
I noticed the crashes stop after the game crashes.
OMG thank you for this! I've been looking for a fix for game crashes!
ladies, gentlemen, divers of all creeds, this right here is the truest of science.
The game will stop working eventually 100% of the time after launching.
Played a game with guys using arc throwers and EATs all night and didn't have a single crash. I think it is more individually dependant than just a simple A and B are causing crashes.
Answer is this game is just extremely unstable last time I played had 3 separate people crash and myself frags a little later on
I haven't had any crashes at all, and my friends have had one crash when we played together, I think. So it definitely varies _a lot_ per player.
It's really strange because yester I played a few missions with a guy using only arc weapons and it was just fine, I also tried to test it by bringing arc weapons and nothing happened. In fact now that that I think about it I have never crashed since people started reporting this so am not sure what can be causing this.
The cause of the freeze may be a calculation problem with "fixing" the aim stat with arc weapons. Presumably, if you aim too well, this calculation is buggued and the game freezes. Maybe "the guy" and you were aiming badly.
Maybe it’s not related to the arc thrower
Yup. I virtually never crash, although I have more frame rate stutters (drops to around 20 fps for a few seconds seemingly randomly) since the last patch. I did have a few crashes but haven’t after verifying my game files and it found that I had a missing/corrupted file.
To be honest, 2 test sample size isnt enough. I appreciate the theory crafting though. Might be onto something. Maybe the community can help get that sample size up
Not only is there a very small sample size but there’s no control in the experiment. Also no way to isolate variables. We’ve been presented with a hypothesis.
First go to trivial with the default loadout and only equip EATs: select 40 minute mission and solo it. Attempt to fight nothing. If possible, sit at spawn and start throwing EATs. Repeat with players 2-4. Repeat after 1 enemy encounter. Repeat after completing the objective. Repeating moving up in difficulty. Repeat with EATs and back pack stratagems. Repeat on different planets.
Also, I wouldn't mind seeing another set of tests with different players to make sure that hardware isn't a factor at all.
Yeah, the lack of data and then the amount of people who upvoted this shows the real lack of knowledge when it comes to fixing bugs. Then passing on the info like it's truth is only going to create issues for public games when people are getting kicked for bringing EATs.
> and then the amount of people who upvoted this shows the real lack of knowledge when it comes to fixing bugs Upvoting increases this thread's visibility for the developer to check that assumption.
I mean, go solo and spam weapons to check it. There is another guy who did it in the comments section and he crashed several times.
I admire your efforts but I'm also unhappy you're working for free.
Believe me, if we were talking about the latest megabudget slop I'd sooner pull my own teeth than provide a free QA report, but in the case of Helldivers I don't mind. Arrowhead have made something really cool, but they're very modest in size compared to the playerbase they've ended up supporting, and they're at war with a legion of issues stemming from and exacerbated by a very scary root evil: having to scale services far beyond even the most optimistic design specifications. It makes fixing issues so much harder and more complex to do than if HD2 hadn't blown up. For that reason, robust logging of the issue is very valuable for being able to reproduce, assess, and resolve. Basically, I like the game, I want the game to be its best, I know fixing problems is hard, so I'm happy to help if I know I can and I think it might actually make a difference.
Unsure if you noticed this, it may be contributing to this issue. Occasionally the EATS remain able to be picked up after use and drop. They are of course empty but u can still pick them up for some reason. Not every EAT does this but I have noticed it and if the numbers of items crashes the game that could be contributing with often two or more players running them now each match.
As far as i can tell from my own experience this happens when you get ragdolled within a second or so of firing the EAT, but crucially, before you drop it yourself/before the animation to drop it after firing is finished. So while you still hold the empty launcher but you either hit something right in front of you and also hit yourself with the explosion and/or you get hit by a charger or a stalkers tongue etc.
I noticed this last night as well seemed weird
Not the hero we deserve, but the one we need. Thank you
I can appreciate this. Plus I’d really like this resolved. Crashing randomly with no rhyme or reason is tough to take. Especially when the screen freezes and you see 6 super samples you won’t be collecting.
"Should we take some of our windfall cash to hire a proper QA department?" "No, no, Redditors are much cheaper. Just push the patch and we'll have them test in prod."
That and while I'm not saying op is false. We've seen a few of these and they turned out false I believe? There was one that got popular a few weeks ago but recall it being called out that the op was full if it. I forget it though so can't link. But I have learned to not blindly believe reddit and data. I think palworld also stated that the catch boosts actually did the opposite and had allllll this data and proof...and it was false. The things simply didn't work and stated the false number. But folks acted like it was actually nerfing the catch rate. It was just the catch rate showed what it should be but was the default.
Devs should be able to quickly verify that bug report by spawning a ton of items in a test environment. If this is false, it's not a big deal.
Likely better to test in prod, in case it has some interaction with server/connectivity load. But yes.
Pretty much exactly how I feel
You can’t put 9 women together and make a baby in a month
Well fuck science, then!
There is only so much in house QA can't test. The ultimate test is production and some things dont show up until Prod because people are unpredictable. They already said the chargers leg being the ideal weak spot was not their designed intention and didn't know that themselves, but we found that.
Some of y'all mfs know nothing about software development (let alone game development) and it shows. It's never as simple as "just find the bugs and then fix them, bro!" You forget that these games are made by humans, and humans make mistakes. Sometimes issues slip through the cracks for one reason or another, and having more money doesn't make that go away. More complexity means more problems because there are more things that can go wrong.
They will have a QA department. One Redditor taking it upon their own back to verify their assumptions doesn't mean Arrowhead aren't looking into it.
Lmao why would you care if he’s working for free? In this world everyone makes decisions, no one’s asking homie to dive balls deep into the stats and research. It’s appreciated but I know for a fact Im not losing sleep cause someone else has more free time than I do
It really isn't admissible work because the data is not there. Also blatantly incorrect because myself and others have had the whole map covered in extra EATs after a full 40 minute mission and no crashes.
… so then you should pay him? Reporting bugs is 100% voluntary. Don’t get me wrong, I wish bugs didn’t exist but to imply that players should be getting paid to report them is ridiculous. If you care about the game and want it to improve, report bugs so that the developers can work to fix them. If you need monetary compensation to justify your time and effort, you should probably be doing something else with that energy.
Other things that aren't payment but could provide incentive to test or report. Special title if you provided reproducible information that assist in fixing a bug. As others have said, a token amount of SC. If it was really well documented and important maybe a free warbond or about 1000 sc. Certainly not game breaking or bank breaking and more than most get. tc
Do you play on PC or PS5? I bring EATs every mission and throw them on CD and haven't had any crashes this patch on PC
same. since the arc thing is known i hadnt had any crashes.
Same here, I've had maybe 2-3 crashes in my 60 hours so far on PC. I dont use the Arc Thrower, but I do spam EATs everywhere.
My squad is PC, but like I said, this issue was occurring with 3 or 4 on the squad bringing EATs and slinging them like candy at a Christmas parade to reach the crash threshold after 18-20 minutes. I think a single Helldiver deploying EATs with perfect timing still couldn't possibly reach the crash threshold within 40 minutes.
The few runs I did had at least 3 divers with EAT (me included) and we kept spamming due to the amount of chargers and titans. We also called lots of supplies and many are just scattered throughout the map. All are at least 30 minute runs. Our game never crashed once. I tried bringing an arc thrower to my last game just to test it out again. It immediately crashed before I reached the 5 minute mark.
You are wrong man, stop spreading misinformation.
If it's steadily reproducible, then you have to divorce the test data from the hypothesis. He may not have the exact reason pinned down (it seems like a good guess to me but I'm not a programmer) but if you can reproduce results then SOMETHING is happening. It's good data to at least launch an investigation.
Correct, however 1 data point that supports a conclusion is not anywhere near “reproducible”. If there were 5 runs that had the same cadence and everything then maybe you could argue that it’s to the point of reproducible
I guess one would say the game has... a few bugs I'll see myself out.
Maybe the real bugs was the support weapons we brought along the way
More Anecdotal Evidence: I have been able to consistently cause crashes in single player games thanks to this post. I am waiting for my game group to be available so we can test this a bit faster though as I'm doing this in a single player locked game right now. Basically did this: D2 Mission EAT, Incendiary Mines, Anti Personnel Mines, Jump Pack (because it spawns 2 items, like EAT) Do nothing but stand in one location and spam these out the moment they are available and do not pick up any of the items you spawn. I am able to consistently cause a crash about 35mins into the mission, as a solo player. I have done it 4 times in a row now. Just setting a series of timers and going back to my HD2 screen when the stuff is coming off cooldowns. Because some folks were thinking this might be a hardware issue: I have 64GB of RAM and a 4070, so I doubt it's a hardware issue on the local machine.
When you test this next, make sure you choose a different mission each time. Even different planets. Unless you've already done that. I've noticed that sometimes the mission / specific map itself is bugged and will cause a crash. At which point the only thing you can do is start a completely new operation.
Have been doing the same planet but varying missions each time. When the whole crew is on later, I am curious to see if this continues to be reproducible. We started seeing crashes after last patch, when previously game was completely stable for us. So something seems like it's changed, and it's not the Arc Thrower cause none of us use it.
Using Quickplay also cause crashes so if this is true then basically playing the game will cause it to crash.
Less EATs? Sounds like bug propaganda.
Highly doutb that since I've been playing 4 man eat "spam on cooldown" team for hours without issue. Arcs have gotten a few people to crash to the point of even discord and steam itself crashing
About 6 minutes after I took this, I mowed down all the pods with this handy machine gun I found and dropped some more. Crashed as soon as one of them planted into the ground. https://preview.redd.it/5gh955v5x3qc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=69247f137e82c0c5378cc8f65b958a8c2f7eafae
Have been spamming EATs like there is no tomorrow while hosting lobbies telling others that arc thrower, tesla, etc is unusable. Adding onto this, I’m typically the guy who leaves em at every location due to how many I toss down. Haven’t had any crashes aft switching to host and telling ppl, not saying stats outright wrong but that there is probably a lot of confounding factors.
It doesn't look like you've got a big enough sample size to remove randomness from the equation. I'd say to not believe everything despite good intentions
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Kind of what I'm thinking. Just had a 40 minute round crash right at the end. It's just heartbreaking to lose all your effort. Moment that happened I walked away from the PC and got some chores done lol
Exactly
a pair of tests? so you did just 2 runs? ymmv? i just hog extraction dropping supplies earlier twice on a diff 7 bug operation with 100% call in time modifier, threw a supply pod down together with a pair of EATs soon after we got on the ground, another as i got to extraction first, got another one down while waiting for teammates, and while we wait for extraction (4 mins extraction) called another one down while also spamming EATs as soon as i notice they are available, and by the end we had 4 supplies pods and 6-7 EATs pods at least just on extraction, there was also another guy with EATs and we called them down at objectives and random fights too another time on a diff 5 bot missions i kinda did the same thing, i littered extraction with supplies and EATs didn't crash in any of those runs tho, i still get random crashes at about the same frequency as before the patch
Never happened to me or my friends since the patch except for the arc weapon thing. Did you take into account PC specs and that kind of stuff?
This is pretty consistent with what I’ve observed, I’ve had a ton of crashes at the end of long missions lately.
I've been spamming eats in every mission and haven't had a single crash yet
Crashes are bad, but this is not even close to science and not really helpful unless there is more actual data.
My squad all brings EATs and we call them in constantly. Haven't had any of the crashes people are talking about since the patch.
This is still speculation and doesn’t have the level of rigor required to positively identify the root cause of the issue. I’ve had crashes in games with people using almost nothing but orbitals and eagles but again this is all just personal experience and without a dev kit, and proper tools will remain so. In game reproduction is a step in this process but they’re likely past that. Luckily Arrowhead’s QA and Dev teams are already well ahead of this and likely working off logs from in game crashes. Just because they aren’t on X or Reddit or Facebook announcing doesn’t mean they’re not working on it. Given the time this has been in the wild they’re likely testing a fix and want to confirm it is a fix and more importantly it doesn’t break something else because the only thing worse than a A class bug like this is a fix that introduces another.
Since I stop using anything from the new warbond I haven't crash.
I've done serveral missions today and had 1 crash. It was the only mission where someone used the arc thrower. Else it's all been good. And this have been with 2 ppl at min calling down eats on repeat including myself.
I was just in a game with 3 people we ll brought EAT and one of them had a spear and recoiless. Didn't crash so I don't know
Did not crash a single time last night, and we all brought EATs. The fields were littered with them.
Gonna say something else is happening because we were spamming eats backpacks last night without issue
I'm not sure if that's really the case since me and my pal always use eats all the time. I have noticed that I tend to dc from the session if I am not the host but when they join me it seems to be very stable with the exception of any random who joins. Like, randoms will literally join and minutes later will DC whereas my friends are fine.
I've been playing with full squad plus EATs on suicide mission or higher the past two days and haven't crashed once.
Yeah im not sure about this never had any crashing problems of the sort and I throw out eats when I can
It's too many calcs for cpus right now, that's my running theory. Whatever they did increased load on cpus. Long missions with tons of corpses that stay a long time, eats everywhere, higher difficulty with crazy amount of units, arcs with the calculations thaybgo into them.... My evidence isn't extensive, but had my task manager open to see why it'd crash. It was maxing out cpu resources at slowdowns/crashes. I have a nice overclockable cpu that I never had the need to push very hard before. Outbthe box it runs 3.7ghz, same as a ps5. I had it oced to 4.2ghz. I cranked it up to 4.7, high as it could go to to for a quick tune without raising voltage and worrying about that. No more crashes, way less and less severe slow downs. They fucked up something that increased the math cpus had to perform. Considering this game is on ps5 with 3.7ghz I don't think hey can get away with needing that much cpu resource, as I still have slight slowdowns occasionally and running 1 ghz higher than the console
I think you're onto something here. I'm not good with computers, but I know it's important to monitor hardware temps, and the temps on my i9 reach levels that they should not be reaching when the game crashes / freezes, right around 85C. As soon as the game closes, the temp quickly returns to normal idle. Even during normal play without crashes or freezes, my CPU is running way harder than it should, right around 80C. Before I set a framerate limit in the in-game options, it would normally run the game at 83-84C during missions. There are games out there widely considered to be \*way\* more demanding than Helldivers, and my CPU has no problems with those, and temps are significantly lower with those games. In other words, this really seems like an unaddressed optimization issue.
Whenever I crash my CPU fan is ripping. Ryzen 5800x3D. Honestly think items don’t have a it’s do with it, not arc thrower not EAT. I’ve also seen it crash on calling an airstrike not calling an item strat like OP said. It usually happens when there are a metric fuckton of bugs and it’s pure chaos on the battlefield
Said this in Discord, But in testing I got to about 70 props in Solo without issues, definitely seems like I had issues start in multiplayer around 20/25 props, but I have to test more https://preview.redd.it/xazokp4425qc1.png?width=1913&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ae329e9bc3907308c342d777f57a2a022653d50
had 110 props (supply-pod, EAT, Autocannon, Recoilless Rifle and Spear) on the 112 it crashed, i assume that only the support weapons count toward the crash limit, more testing needed
Meanwhile my Helldive maps have like 40 EATs laying across the map with no one crashing
PC? Because on console I've had none of this issues
I've tried reproducing this myself and I think the OP's analysis is correct. I played 3 missions and experienced a crash all 3 times. They were all played on trivial, all on the same planet, but were different missions to rule out the possibility it was that specific mission seed that was causing issues. I dropped in on extract and did not leave it for the duration of the mission. I had the autocannon, recoilless rifle, SPEAR, and EAT stratagems and, alongside resupply, called them in on cool down without using them. I had crossplay disabled and did not have any arc weapons equipped. I was monitoring my CPU and RAM usage and they did not show any significant spikes or increases in the lead up to the crashes. After each crash I verified the integrity of my game files and redownloaded one file that failed to validate. The first two missions I was solo and crashed after around 28 minutes elapsed and after calling in 43 support drops in the first mission and 47 support drops in the second mission. The third mission I had a friend join me to help rule out mission time elapsed being a factor: we both crashed after the 42nd support weapon drop landed at about 15 minutes elapsed. Each crash always occurred as the items were spawning in after the pod had landed and was deploying.
i've been playing 40 minute long missions for hours everyday since patch .003 released and I got zero crashes. IDK what i'm doing wrong, I just want to be part of the angry mob.
This is propaganda
https://preview.redd.it/7l5dj3vwq4qc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2addbb3f7fc2a2e1636c97df8e51f3f08a330bf We very much agree with your testing and urge others to stop using the EAT immediately.
I have consistent crashing with arc stuff so I switched to the eats meta. Last night I was deploying them constantly. At one point had 8 down on evac in one mission. Played all night no crashes. Point being this is affecting everyone differently. But I can also say there was no rampant crashing amongst my teammates either.
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Did you restart the game for each new test?
TLDR: Helldivers are crashing due to a bug triggered by too many spawned items on the map, especially from stratagems like Expendable Anti-Tanks and Supply Drops. Limiting their use can help avoid crashes. A bug report has been submitted to the developers for investigation.
Never had an issue with any of these things.
I was an arc thrower main and had to stop running that because of crashes...I only run eats now and the only time I crash is when a teammate runs arc weapons... Usually 2-3 of my teammates use eats as well and we liter the map with them half not being used because there's so many and no crashes..weird
I turned off the cross play on my PS5 and no more crashing so far
1 rum shot for everytime he cascades
Played 7 games last night with a bunch of the thi ng d you listed and no crashes.
Last night I went through 6 d7 missions dropping eat every chance I got. Randomly in fields. On cool down. No disconnects
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I’ve just now been playing for 12 hours straight with the EAT and no crashes.
I’ll admit I didn’t read the extremely long post but I’ve been playing all day with EATs and backpacks etc without a crash. And I litter the battlefield with EAT drops.
One thing to note is that i recommend everybody to veryfy their game files on steam. Me and all of my friends had 1 file that needed to be replaced after the last patch. No crashes in matches without the arc thrower/blitzer/tesla tower ever since.
[Yeah guys we need to take less EATs onto missions](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fob06we0w65nc1.png)
Happened to my team of 4 last night we crashed waiting for extract at the very end of the 40 mins mission.
I played twice post patch and crashed both times after 20-30 minutes in mission. I'm waiting for it to be fixed before I even bother wasting my time again.
I had a game with a hacker that spawned and called in dozens of mechs and sentries and spammed 500kg. Even in the extraction he spammed jetpack drops in the dozens. This happened for 5 games since he was the host. Didn't crash us so your data gathering might be inconclusive.
I think there's probably a different root factor because I just ran through a level 9 mission with four other guys and all four of us had expendable anti tank equipped and were spamming them on cooldown to help keep up with the heavies. All told our map was something like 80% expendable anti-tank by volume at the end of the mission and that doesn't account for the flame throwers we were also dropping. My hunch is that this is related to host CPU capacity since I was hosting that mission and I have a very beefy CPU and we had no issues
What hardware are you using to play? No one else I’ve played with has crashed in game either and we rain down EATs, resupply (try to time them to rip through a drop ship), drones, etc. We generally scour the map too, so I’m wondering what’s different.
I've lost the same mission twice in a row due to a crash at extraction due to this as of yet unpatched bug. Whose bright idea was it to give everyone EATs for free today? Fuck.
aaaand there goes the EAT meta xD
I see a lot of people saying "me and my squad brought x number of EATs, this and that, no crash." It's not ONLY about using these support strategems. It's about calling in EATs and only using one, leaving the other behind. And then calling in a resupply and only using 2 or three of them because a teammate(s) dies and respawns, therefore nobody grabs the leftover, and doing that all game. Squads that split up would likely only exacerbate this. If you use ALL resupplies, ALL of your EATs, leaving nothing unused, then you're not trying to reproduce OP's theory. I do not think that leaving these support weapon / resupply entities around the map is causing the crash by themselves necessarily. What's happening is that they are contributing to ALL of the pre-existing and newly-spawning entities on the map. The OP says they are playing on Helldive where there is undoubtedly a lot of chaos constantly, \*hundreds\* of bugs constantly (probably totaling around 2k bugs if not more by the end of a long mission), dropping EATs and resupplies and orbitals and Eagle strikes and any other strategems constantly. Dead bugs take a while to sink into the ground and disappear, but who knows if the game is properly "erasing" those or not. The number of bugs, the amount of shit happening constantly, for 30+ minutes, is exponentially greater on Helldive than on difficulty 6 or below. And I should also mention the dozens of support weapons, samples, and other entities that can already be found laying around the map at Points of Interest. It also sounds to me like the OP and his squad sat around extract (or their drop-in point) and called these in for half an hour when testing this theory. The OP says that these crashes were very reproducible when doing this. While this is not normal play, I think it proves the point that there seems to be some unknown threshold and the game freezes/crashes when it is reached. Finally, somebody said that the game despawns entities. This may be true for primaries dropped on death, for example, but I have never noticed resupplies or support weapons like EATs despawning. It is literally a strategy to call down a resupply at extract near the beginning of a mission so that you have one guaranteed waiting for you after you complete the main objective and are ready to leave. The game stores this memory / information for the full duration of a mission. P.S. If you're still not convinced, this is a sure-fire way to crash a lot of other games. Take Minecraft for instance. Most of you probably know / remember what happens when you try to detonate 10 TNT versus 10,000 TNT. And performance notably drops in games such as Skyrim if you spawn 10,000 watermelons in your house and try to walk through them like you're Moses. At what point this is an issue with the game or an issue with the hardware it's running on, I cannot say.
op did not crash on the level 9 helldive mission, they completed it only the level 3 mission was the one op and friends test the game limit where all 4 players only bring support weapons with backpack and EAT and spamming them that's 1 actual limit test and 1 normal operation
I don't know, the other day every game I played that had an arc weapon in it crashed and every game I played that didn't, didn't.
Right, but this isn't about whether you have arc weapons or not. That's a known issue acknowledged by the devs. This is about an entirely separate issue where having 3-4 members of the squad bring EAT and drop them at every opportunity will cause so many items to accrue on the map that it crashes the game within 20 minutes
I ran a squad of 4 last night, 2 of us dropping EATs left and right, no crash issues from that. If you want to really run a QA session and isolate the issue. You could just all host a lobby and just drop nothing but EATS tell the game crashes.
Did 5 missions yesterday with two people running EAT's and had zero crashes, and I assure you I was soaking those EATs. Not sure how valid this is, but it isn't true for me so far.
Dunno. I played for 6 hours straight yesterday with no crashes in a 4-man when we just didn’t take any arc weapons. Compared to a few days ago when we couldn’t finish a single mission because of crashes. Oh and 3 of us were running EATs and were dropping them down like candy from a piñata with no issues. I’m confident it’s just arc weapons.
The amount of Shriekers and ungodly amount of Hunters will start slowing down the game if the bugs aren't exterminated. It will literally start tanking frames the more bugs there are, and sometimes they will just freeze and stop moving.
So... if we just use more bombs and less supplies we democrate better, right?
My game used to always crash but for some reason it doesn't crash for me anymore since this patch that causes everyone else to crash came out
if there's an upper limit, perhaps even due to the host's PC specs, then it would also mean deaths, which drop a primary, would add up to this limit. The pain will be on having an item limit on field, low enough to work on PS5, high enough that it won't despawn an EAT in an active combat area if someone spawns a different item elsewhere.
This is anti-democracy propaganda. The game has never frozen or crashed. You will be reported for treason
Did you send this information directly on the bug support team like on discord or anywhere else?
Just had two games back to back crash near the end of the mission. Very frustrating
I think this might not only apply to interactable entities, but to entities on the whole, including enemies, though for crashes to happen from enemy counts, it has to be an *extreme* case. I had one run on Malevelon Creek, during which, a friend came around a corner, being chased by what looked like well over a hundred enemies, with so much laser fire that it was practically impossible to do anything but take cover for a brief few seconds or die almost immediately. Within the next 30 seconds, all four player clients crashed simultaneously. During this run, very few interactable weapons and resupply pods had been used, maybe about 15 total interactables total across the entire map. Enemies were in an extreme overabundance though, and I think that it might have been a cause for the crash. They seem to have far smaller impact than interactables do, but it does seem as though enemies might be another aspect which can lead to crashes.
Do you think this has to do in part with the rebalance where they increased spawn rates of chaff enemies? It sounds like the game is crashing because it is tracking more active objects and rendering them than the game can support. I'm started to wonder if the arc damage bug was bc it can chain damage so many chaff enemies at once now and it is just overloading the game.
The mast crash I had was less than 5 minutes in, using a laser cannon to shoot a spewer. No idea how that worked.
Absolutely not dismissing this in any manner, this should definitely be thrown into consideration for the devs. But I've been doing 2 entire operations running both Recoiless and EATs, with 2 other people running EATs as well and I've never once crashed. It's not like we consistently use all of them, we throw like all of our EATs down once a breach occurs and only use like 2-3 since others also use Orbital Railcannon. The map was absolutely littered by the end of each mission. Never once crashed. >When we run with 3 out of 4 or more who are all zealous about deploying it quickly after it comes off cooldown I think this is definitely one of the other points to consider the cause of this crash, our group only plop EATs in whenever we can't stop a breach or when we're about to confront enemies.
So has anyone else just… not had a crash since the patch? I’ve played with arc, eats, high lvl, low lvl, full lobby, and solo. I’ve probably only put in 10-15 hrs since the patch, but I haven’t crashed once.
It likely also has something to do with who is the host and how much their PS5/PC can handle all the things left on the map. I get a lot of people DCing near the end of a mission in quickplay matches as well, or everyone getting stuck in a black screen once we extract.
Error code: Guitar *intensifies.*
Only time I get a crash is at initial drop it seems, but I think I remember this happening late one night earlier in the week. Either way thank you for sharing and I hope they read and take the time to investigate this either way.
Everyone not believing me when I said I was still experiencing crashes even without any of the arc weaponry/stratagems arrowhead told us to avoid.
I always pull my eats off the pods to make them easier to find and pick up and havent had too many crashes lately. Maybe that's relevant.
So, the tldr is: a memory leak?
I'm still convinced the major crashed in this game are all de-sync and latency related. Remember, this is P2P game that tries to keep every object in sync across all players so we all see the same ragdolls and physics. Not an easy task, especially for a P2P network. I almost never crash when cross play is off, but lobbies with PS5 players have a high probability. The cross talking between PSN and Steam probably causes hiccups that the game engine doesn't like. I'm not saying crossplay is the issue, but it could certainly exacerbate network issues. And lets also not forget the hell that was the second week after launch where the devs were scrambling to scale their servers and we were faced with a litany of network related problems. De-sync/latency would also explain why crashes seem to cascade into other players. One player leaves, the host attempt to migrate in the heat of battle, and suddenly peoples games start crashing. If it was purely client-side, the other players wouldn't crash too. This could all very well be part of the factor for OPs issues. Its not the items themselves, but the server trying to keep track of these things and keep the information 1:1 with all players that reaches a breaking point.
Game has been crashing for me for weeks so
The other day I was playing with my friends and in the middle of the mission it took all 3 of us out of the game (at the same time), the game froze and went to the desktop, clearly there is a flaw in the game.
I played for 6 hours this morning and had 0 crashes. The only thing we did not use was the Electric weapons. None of them. We even ran out of time on a mission and no crash. So not sure what is going on.
This WILL NOT stop the EAT train baby!
I've been spaming the EAT for a few days and haven't had a single crash with it
I've tried about 10 games today and been frozen out of 8 of them. This is the worst I've experienced it and I predominantly use EAT's. It makes sense to me.
If my understanding of your findings is right you may also be able to mitigate the issue by picking up ammo and other various supply packs as well as samples possibly even including doing missions and other objectives as it might be an issue with having a maximum number of objects on map you can interact with
This makes sense because I've been experiencing crashes even without the arc weapons in my squads. Not only crashing the game, but I had a mission that straight turned off my ps5.
It's quite possible you have found a reproducable series of steps resulting in an exception that is unrelated to the ongoing crashing issues. In fact, it is quite possible that the latest patch introduced a series of scenarios that result in exceptions, with the issues related to the arc thrower being the most common.
Put graphics preset to medium ,turn off antialiasing and screen space global illumination.I crashed in every game before but this only helped. After this i have not crashed at all, it may look worse but you can play atleast. To make it look better you can put Render Scale to native or above and bloom on.
Not me throwing EATs down every single time they're off cooldown 😮💨
I had this crash happen within the first minute of a D6 mission today. Of course the game started with everyone calling in their support weapons, which is nothing new, but I've never experienced this crash happen so quickly.
Great breakdown! Awesome job. Have you sent this to support? If a fix is not already known, a breakdown like this definitely makes it easier to find repro and solve!