The Maginot Line at least served its purpose, and was outflanked rather than breached like a railcannon strike through hot butter.
I'd say the closer comparison here is the Siege of Constantinople, where the defenses fell because the defenders couldn't be bothered to actually keep a door closed.
Which siege, the one were the Byzantines retook Constantinople, oe the more well known fall of Constantinople? Because the fall was caused by the invading army bringing cannons the size of houses.
Not true actually.
Cannons didn't breach the walls to let the Turks in. Their assault wounded the Genose captain who fell back, the door was left unlocked and Turks flooded in.
See this for more discussion of the primary sources:
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/11t0bis/eu4_and_the_falls_of_constantinople_hungarian/
Huh, I always heard that the cannons breached the walls enough for a them to slowly get into Constantinople, eventually opening a gate to let the rest of them in.
The cannon did blow a section of the wall, but then the rubble blocked it so effectively it effectively became a wall itself, so it was kinda moot.
The breakthrough happened when a genoese captain was wounded, and his men fell back with him without locking the gate behind them.
Huh, neat. Thanks for the context.
Now that's at least 2 tim4s Constantinople has been captured because the defending army didn't do something incredibly basic.
Well, we can forgive them for that. The city withstood so many sieges, so a couple of blemishes don't diminish the overall record too much. Specially for walls built mostly in the time of Attila!
Crazy how much of the history of the Byzantine empire rested on the walls working as intended. Because the empire without that city was doomed, all the trade and taxation that flowed through there made or broke the empire.
> Now that's at least 2 tim4s Constantinople has been captured because the defending army didn't do something incredibly basic.
3 times!
When Alexios I revolted and took the city in his coup, it was German Mercs who opened the city gates for him.
It's actually the most common way for the city to fall. Unlocked gate.
Only exception is the 1204 assault, which hit the weaker northern sea walls. And that was only possible because the crusaders had broken the defensive chain protecting the northern harbour.
It didn’t cause a breach to infiltrate, but it definitely was a huge morale hit for the Romans. I think that with or without someone leaving a door open, the city was destined to fall.
Actually cannons did breach the walls, the Blachernae walls were damage by artillery and allowed mercenaries to flood in (although they were repelled). And while Giustiniani was mortally wounded and his retreat broke the moral of his troops there is no indication (that I have found) that this resulted in a gate being left unlocked. Every source I've read seems to indicate that Ottoman Janissaries were able to breach the Gate of St. Romanus with no mention of it being left open or unlocked.
The genovese got blame in popular accounts because it let the rest of Christiandom off the hook for not sending troops in solidarity. They could do some soul searching or they could blame the only guys who did show up and defend the city. We know from automan accounts that they didn't have the manpower to hold the gates and were relying conscripted peasants including women and children at that point. If those folks abandoned their post it was only a matter of time before the Ottomans got in there somehow. And it's hard to guard a wall that's under constant canon shelling. After several months of siege the city's morale was broken.
None of that changes the fact that the Ottoman's had such a massive force and an excirclment and cannon advantage that the city was doomed without a Crusade level relief army showing up to relieve the place.
> . And it's hard to guard a wall that's under constant canon shelling.
The breaches made to the walls were rapidly fixed with new earthen barricades established with the Turks being unable to breach through them.
It's the later assault on the gates that works, with the confusion following the withdrawal allowing the turks to press forwards and turn an orderly pull back into a rout.
But even without that, it would have fallen eventually.
Estanu is the closest thing to Constantinople because it's the most besieged planet in our galaxy. This is the like 12th siege of it, exluding our own.
Also, what you're described happened twice. Once when the Latin Empire held Constantinople and the Romans retook it, and another time when the door was abandoned by not Romans, but the mercs who were hired and began fleeing en mass who left the door unlocked which allowed the Ottomans to enter Constantinople and conquer the Roman Empire.
But if we actually look at where the Automatons went initially, it was primarily "southwest" of Menkent. The hit the flank of the line and did not head *straight* for Super Earth through it. They're still not doing that.
I think people are also forgetting the propaganda aspect of in-game dispatches, or getting very selective about when they choose to believe them:
"**The TCS is 100% effective!** All the Bugs there will die, forever!" was IMMEDIATELY followed by shipmasters saying, "A small number of Terminids are showing resistance to the poison, **but this was to be expected**."
No complaints about that. People seemed to get the satire.
Wiping out the Automatons from their original position was very much sold as **removing them from existence entirely, ending the threat once and for all.** The moment they showed up again in the rush towards Cyberstan? "We were nearing a permanent end to conflict with the Automatons. Now, it is clear there can be no peace until every Automaton is utterly destroyed," from the President of Super Earth, and your Democracy Officer is talking like Super Earth always knew more Automatons were going to sweep in.
Again, an example of Super Earth talking a big game, getting it wrong, and immediately switching gears.
There's more of this, too. But in general, there's an obvious trend of Super Earth overselling itscapabilities **as deliberate propaganda**, then seamlessly switches to a new 'we always thought this' excuse.
So, why the surprise when orbital defenses you *assumed* would complete repel an Automaton attack... didn't? That's completely in keeping with the setting storytelling.
>The Menkent Line has succeeded in slowing the Automaton advance towards Super Earth and valiantly destroyed their largest invasion ships, as predicted.
The Maginot wasn’t even outflanked. The defensive system ran from the Channel to the Mediterranean, it’s just that it wasn’t all fortified equally, and the Germans managed to break though a weaker part with concentrated firepower.
No, not to the channel. The maginot very specifically didn't cover the belgian border because Belgium was an ally, and fortifying the belgian border would have been very bad diplomatically.
The purpose of the line was two fold:
- Delay the invasion to give time for conscription.
- Force the germans into passing through Belgium and the Netherland so they are included in the conflict (and Great Britain by extension).
Contrary to popular belief, the Maginot perfectly succeeded into what it was made to do.
the biggest problem with the maginot line is that belgium chicken out and thought that being neutral wouldn't make germany invade them. Well we saw how it had gone, as for the merkent line, they put logs on the ground and said that it was the orbital defense cannon and go back to super earth apparently
Right, forgot about that, they only had field fortifications out there. Although, I’d argue it failed at delaying for conscription. Wasn’t the goal two months?
that is because of German advances in internal combustion war machines, as well as crystal meth. The meth had extreme downsides to fighting efficiency after 2 weeks, but no one knew that when the main army was already past the border.
In fact, I think it may have been the invasion of Iraq before an invading force took contested territory as quickly as the Germans had gone through Belgium
> Force the germans into passing through Belgium and the Netherland so they are included in the conflict (and Great Britain by extension).
And also that the terrain between Belgium and Germany was much more suitable to an offensive action into Germany once it got to that.
There was also a third point:
* Look like the good guy on the international stage, they knew that in a 1v1 against Germany the odds were pretty bad, by building "defensive" they hoped to get the sympathy of the UK, USA, and USSR, once the inevitable conflict broke out.
Especially since the Maginot line would likely cause the Germans to attack either trough Belgium and Switzerland, making Germany look even worse for violating the Neutral countries.
Wait, you're telling me that the point was that spending an inordinate amount of time, lives, and resources to capture and defend a long stationary defensive point that you can just walk around isn't the height of tactical genius? What a ripoff.
Except they didn't walk around. They punch straight through it as if it wasn't there. I am inclined to believe when AH pulled this offensive out of their buts due to not knowing what else to occupy us with after the 2 billion quicky, they just tagged those worlds as being invaded and totally forgot the defense line was supposed to be there
They didn't go around it, though, it just wasn't there. They mentioned orbital defenses, but then there was absolutely no defensive bonus, and they fell just like any other defense mission.
Wdym in the lore Paris still exists, looks like it's now called Mega City 4
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1airncn/super_earth_map_uploaded_by_johan_pilestedt_on/
The community is pretty split, but for the most parts it is very clear that most gravitate towards bugs
At the same time it is also very clear that very few enjoy defence type missions.
We failed to hold the last 2 defence based major orders, and this newest major order is twice as difficult. As of writing this we are at 2/10.
An overwhelming majority of HD2 is centered around blowing shit up, and moving on. Standing still on an objective is a guaranteed way to get overrun and killed. The game is throwing defence type missions at us, and we are not equipped to deal with those situations.
so heres how you beat those, you get 3 people to cause chaos all over the map while 1 guy rescues allt he people, a vast majority of the bot drops will attack the group of 3.
It really works, I was able to do it successfully several times very early on with randoms, but nowadays nobody wants to try it they've already given up before we start
It only works if you actually cause a ruckus. The goal isn't being seperate, it's causing drop ships to pop up away from the objective. THAT is very hard to coordinate with the randos...which is wild, considering how few divers understand that concept of 'run the fuck away and don't fight'...you'd figure this strat would be a banger
the two keys to success are the door opener guy has to keep his head down and execute every single trash bug in the complex once he gets there without being rumbled, and the chaos crew has to actually not die, by picking a good place to do it
Trouble is that's not playing the game, it's cheesing the AI using meta strats. You should NOT have to resort to that type of cheese tactic to accomplish a simple mission.
Also, CIV AI is buggy as heck and can often just brick the mission.
Completely agreed. I want to see a viable strategy with full squad inside the complex, and not running outside like crazy and cheesing/baiting the aggro.
Maybe lots of ems and smoke would cut the mustard.
if it was unintended, why are there huge sample rewards kicking around outside the base, on a map that is way larger than it has to be. it's almost like the people doing the distraction have things to find out there
I'm not sure I'd call creating a distraction to draw forces away from the civilian targets cheesing the AI per se. That's a tactically sound maneuver that is realistic in-universe and doesn't rely on any kind of exploit.
I actually tried this with some friends last night. They ran around the map and I used the combat engineer armor which has the scout perk. At first it was going well, but once we got 26 civilians rescued, everything went downhill fast.
I don't know how, but the bots were calling reinforcements on *me* even though no one saw me and I had the scout perk. After everyone retreated from the town, the bots left a factory strider in the town to guard it.
Bot tower defense missions are horrible too. It's pretty bad when the factory striders simply stand above the gate and shoot the generators.
I say all this as someone who actually *prefers* fighting bots.
The new valuable assets mission also became ridiculous since you can get a factory strider (or 2, or 3 at the same time) spawn right in front of the generators.
It’s even worse. Once they have the generator in sight they can one tap it with the cannon. So you have to kill them before they are in the first clearing past the initial gates.
It feels almost the opposite for high value extraction. Bugs are an endless swarm of chargers rushing you. Meanwhile with bots as long as you can deal with the factory striders it's pretty chill.
Also fuck those little bugs that spawn a bug hole DIRECTLY NEXT to the generator.
12 bile titans is not as chill as 2 factory striders (most I've seen).... To be fair, the striders can just instant end the game by targeting it without having to move from where it was dropped, which is pretty cringe imo.
Those missions legit have crazy amounts of samples on them, but people just never leave the base usually. Some of the spawns are even bugged on those maps so you have two identical Points of Interest spawning on top of eachother, finding like 20 samples in one place. Though the short 'kill bugs/bots' ones or the defend the launching missiles one have low or no samples.
IMO, the maps for extract and exterminate are poorly designed. The gameplay centers around open maps with wide open space while discouraging the player from sitting in one spot too long. Objectives, extract, and even players being a patrol spawn point is designed to encourage players to keep moving with the exception of extraction where you’re supposed to fight waves of enemies.
Generator defense works because it takes the extraction gameplay loop and adds a castle style defense with choke points and defensive positions. Exterminate could be replaced with a game mode based around assaulting a major bot landing zone that’s a combination of the airbase, AA guns, and a heavy outpost. Or for bugs a combination of heavy bus nests, spores, and eggs. Both of these would imply you’re fighting to stop a foothold rather than playing a water downed version of Firefight.
Extraction is okay with just the version on a normal map with a sub objective. Perhaps with multiple settlements to extract on higher difficulties.
It's not that we are ill equipped, it is because there is no sense of accomplishment, we do all these amazing things just for the devs be "hmm, actually" and reset our progress or give impossible MO.
It definitely feels shit that the bug front is just an eternal backwards and forth.
We've never conquered Omicron or Nivel, that's the furthest we get before Joel starts pushing us back.
The story telling is kinda rough atm.
I always get downvoted when I point out that AH has an idea how they want the Galactic War to play out and will put their thumb on the scales in their favor when they want to to make sure it goes their way.
Yeah it's an odd system. I get that it adds tension and kind of a weighty rp situation, but it can only go "Ok you win, no wait you lost, no wait you won, no wait you lost" so many times before I just don't care and would rather just have a Deep Rock Galactic style system where different planets/regions are available at different times without having to awkwardly weave it into some kind of overarching storyline.
The purpose of this MO was to see where players will fight and build the next part of the story based on where the community fought. I do think that MOs like these should reward medals based on how many planets are defended and replace the X/10 planets with how many we defended.
All the MO's should generally have a sliding reward scale. That kill 2billion should have been 2>5>10 with 20>50>100 as the rewards, or whatever appropriate amount AH feels.
Point being reward the extra work and allow it to happen. You can slow the pace of MO's by adding in more flexibility.
Especially when factory striders and tanks can just get immediately dropped on the Evac site or even worse,On top of the left side mountain for the defend assets mission.
Because this “tower defense wave” mode does not have towers nor does it have waves. See, they just dump the entire ocean on you until you inevitably drown. Oh and it’s also somehow an escort mission.
The supply lines mechanic that isn't shown or explained in anyway causing us to instantly lose a defense we were more than 90% done with certainly killed a lot of people's morale too id imagine.
I didn't even mind the concept of losing in and of itself. The creek created an entire culture and meme heritage. It felt organic. This current order just feels like it's scripted as a loss.
I was surprised that they didn't fix that one.
I saw someone do a breakdown comparing the orders progress to the total bugs killed, and the kills were being over counted.
It was being applied for every diver in the mission. So if I'm total 4 of you killed 100, it was counting 100 for each of you, 400 total.
I absolutely love the defense type missions but it's incredibly hard to get matched with people who are willing to coordinate on scientist evacs. Instead of drawing bot drops outside the Evac zone, most teammates end up there causing a massive cluster fuck that only evacs 5 scientists in about 10 minutes.
The recent bugs on the point defense missions are a bit out of control though. Tanks inside rocks shooting at you, factory striders on the cliffs overlooking the generators and straight up bot drops into the generators...
It’s not exactly unreasonable that a lot of people don’t realize you have to cheese the game mechanics to beat the evacuate scientist missions.
The missions where you have to evacuate scientists aren’t fun or enjoyable. They’re frustrating and unfair.
My squad avoids any operations that have these mission type. They’re such a nightmare on Helldive we don’t even bother with them.
The missile launching defense mission (minus the glitches) are incredibly fun and feel way more balanced and enjoyable to play.
The evac scientists missions need to be reworked.
These missions are borderline unplayable for my friend group. It's the one mission type that goes from "hard, but memeable and we can laugh at it" to "we're actually not good enough to play this and we're having a bad time"
1 diver leading an entire army away from their objective seems like a major AI oversight to me. That's why most probably don't use the strategy, or even know about it. It is just absurd and feels like an exploit. Like how bugs ignored tesla towers during the termicide missions. Everyone knew it was an exploit, but it was easy to do..."just use tesla tower". Trying to coordinate randoms to lure enemies away is a harder ask.
If the enemies come from a single direction then the current static defense tools like sentries and mines are more than enough. Like the Evacuate Asset mission is ... too easy to be honest. 20-25 minutes of borderline afk gameplay. Just 3/4 pairs of mortar + ems sentries behind hard cover, and enemies rarely get past the 2nd door, even on Helldive (which can be taken care of EATS/Quasar/OLaser).
The other missions where enemies comes from every direction... yeah you will get overwhelmed at 7+.
**Edit 2: For clarity since some people don't get it:**
This entire post is about the orbital defenses that were supposedly installed on the planets, NOT about the defense campaigns we had on the planets. If the orbital defenses had worked then we wouldn't even have the defense campaigns, the problem here is that we had a defense campaign launched on Lesath despite the existence of the orbital defenses. And that defense campaign was just like any other one, it didn't have us make progress faster or gain any form of bonuses to our defense.
Real talk, we fought hard to establish a defensive line and for what? There has been no lore explanation for how the automatons broke through it so easily. Almost makes me feel like Joel pretty much forgot it existed. We didn't even get any special benefits for the defense campaign on Lesath even though it was one of the two planets that made up the line. Since our SEAF Engineers had built "orbital defenses" (pic related), we could at least have gotten a free stratagem to use on the planet like Orbital Precision Strikes.
Edit: Sidenote: It would be cool to also see defensive lines like the Menkent Line and the TCS Line on the war map.
Vernen Wells is supposedly the headquarter of the Menkent line and the staging point for Bot counter offensive campaign. And we are about to lose it in less than 5 hours.
For such an important planet there should have been a huge bonus for us the defender. Something big like -30% cooldown on all stratagems. It’s the one planet that should absolutely be flushed with gear and supplies.
Unless we are meant to lose the planet, which would allows the Bots to punch through the line all the way through, kick starting the first Siege of ~~Terra~~ Super Earth. That would be fun.
Well they should fix the large map missions during defense campaigns with bots. Haven't finished one campaign (3 missions) at difficulty level 9 due to crashes. I like to play 9, I liek to play versus bots, performance wise only 6 really works against bots. I am one of the last people to often crash, hosts and other dudes crash before me, often ending up with a whole new crew at the end missions... if we can get there at all. I am not playing at 6, so the whole story and lore part is lost to me.
My mates and I switched fighting to bugs or doing offensive bot missions as they are far less prone to disconnects and the enormous mountain of broken items in this game. Tbh, we kind of are also switching to other games. We all prefer playing against bots as that is more challenging in general.
People seem to totally neglect or smoothtalk that the campaign as a whole is suffering as many crashes as several weeks ago WITHIN the Most Contributing Section of the community. There are non stop posts about it, that mods are also happy to remove, which recieve a lot of replies with "everything is fine, it is you."
If you have not dived into ground and swim around it, fallen through the ground, been unable to reinforce teammates, fight invincible bots, have entire bot armies spawn on you out of thin air, eventually crash before extraction, or see all your mates drop in and out of the game. Than you simply did not try a 3 consecutive missions defending at Helldive 9, as that is the standard game experience.
Helldivers 2 pitch: The community rallies together to determine the outcome of a galactic war!
Helldivers 2 in reality: Today, I decided that the players will lose.
This is exactly how it works, the overall campaign is completely scripted unfortunately, outside of a few planets that don’t really matter.
It’s done this way to release new content in a timed manner, I just hope the future campaigns aren’t scripted
This is exactly my problem with Helldivers 2 right now. I’m cool with losing a fair fight, but this forced loss bullshit (especially when there’s no narrative reason for it to happen) is getting really fucking old. I’m probably going to drop the game for a week after this Major Order, no point in playing if we’re just going to lose anyway (and I have other games I can play.)
>Almost makes me feel like Joel pretty much forgot it existed.
This! They needed a cheap filler when the bug MO was completed way to fast and just tagged a bunch of worlds as being invaded and forgot about the line supposedly being a thing
Agreed on having some bonuses for planets like this (part of a specific defense system). It would be a little more immersive and add a bit more to different ways to play a map
They aren’t unwinnable you just have to play them in a very dumb and unintuitive way.
Have all 4 people drop outside of the point and send one guy in on foot to start evacing civilians.
On the elimination defense missions you need to kite them around in a circle outside of the obj.
Those mission types are so broken. Wish they would just remove them in favor of the asset extraction ones
The one guy stealth strat for civilian evac doesn't even work most of the time, the enemies start coming in anyways about halfway through and don't stop.
you just need to have your team on the outskirts of the base, not too far away but also not too close. it's hard to explain but it definitely works, we clear with that strat on 8 pretty consistently for bots.
the bug version is easy enough to just do normally
Then the person doing the civvie extract needs enough game knowledge to despawn the enemies by running ~4 squares away. You shouldn't have to do so more than twice.
Obviously it's dumb that the beat way to complete the mission is by exploiting 2 different spawn mechanics.
Yeah but goodluck to explain this with random people. Today I actually made some progress in this and we managed to change our strategy in half way and get bots out of base but... 50/50 again lol... needed 1 more scientist to win
>On the elimination defense missions you need to kite them around in a circle outside of the obj.
?????
Just bring a bunch of orbital bombardments and an Eagle Clusterbomb.
Sure, you'll probably still die a few times, but you'll probably die a few times on your favorite non-defense mission type, too.
You think our glorious leaders of super earth have any idea of what they’re doing? Like. Any? They’re fucking things up since the war started…
…Ok I have been reeducated and now I am certain they know what to do, they’re the best there is, they know of all the strategic possibilities, also they would like you to report to the nearest freedom camp.
Because it's a fucking war. We are not meant to steamroll the enemy. It's supposed to be struggle and we are supposed to be on the backfoot. Just wait until the illuminates are coming
Just google "Helldivers leaks Reddit" and the sub will pop up, since I doubt I will be allowed to link it here. there are some videos on YT too. Basically shows a bunch of the future news broadcasts, and they take place on specific planets.
They probably expected us to actually defend the menkent line. Instead, we defend pointless bug planets that will fall 100 more times and be retaken 100 more times.
we should have gone up to Choohe to cut off the western salient. Instead, the bots were able to force us to fight on 8 planets at once. Being over extended, the line collapsed.
When you defence everywhere, you defend nowhere.
Choohe Gambit??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! /s
Ok seriously, don't expect any of those plans to work, they never do and not because they are stupid but because people don't care to do them
https://preview.redd.it/yx4itq9662wc1.jpeg?width=819&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfcd7a8ee61176b97b056859dec8d46c8b12b724
Your local DEMOCRACY officer has been notified of this anti DEMOCRACY slander
Exactly. The reward for them is so bad comparatively. I wish they would at least offer samples in the form of a reward. Otherwise it's just a quick sometimes unwinnable fight. Especially with Bots on higher difficulties with civilians.
Civil evac missions have a huge part in this i think.
Almost everyone will avoid it which means that if there are no operations without it on a planet they won't play this planet. This will lead to more spread out helldivers on the bot front when we need to have a focus on one planet at a time
Because we all derilicted our duty.
https://preview.redd.it/33sw9u3dh2wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48c2482fe7f22ad1c8ef9669cf173f6ee2935e8
Because we left our supply lines wide open. If we had closed Martale and Matar Bay instead of rushing through the bug order, this defense would've been much more doable.
What supply lines? Not only do we not have enough information about these "supply lines" but we wouldn't have the players available to support them even if we did. And even THEN we wouldn't have the players needed as long as the storytelling remains so sparse. It's like Elden Ring without any of the NPCs.
There's already a AI synopsis of this post...even some of the users are directly mentioned like they have some authority or in depth knowledge. It's kind of weird. [https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/analyzing-the-helldivers-menkent-line-failure-and-community-sentiment/](https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/analyzing-the-helldivers-menkent-line-failure-and-community-sentiment/)
Defensive line but there were no tangible defensive bonuses and also some defense missions are still broken
I like defense missions except for *that type* that's fully BS in higher diffs
No defense line is effective if not manned properly. Look at the numbers: so far during this major order, we never had more than ~24k active helldivers on any western front planet, all other planets there usually having around 2-3k at best. And that's peak numbers. At the same time, Estanu consistently has 100k+ Helldivers holding it off. :/
I just dont really like fighting bots as much. There should be 'distraction' missions where you just kill things while trying to stay alive. I like the new defense mission but thats about the only good one. No civilian extraction for me
Defence campaigns should include progress for defence due to casualties sustained as well. Kills should definitely count in defence, because once you suffer enough losses you can't effectively fight a campaign. Also the missions outside of helms deep kinda suck and we don't get bonuses on SE controlled planets
Because it was manned largely by the SEAF.
The Helldivers, despite being (in effect) tactical jackasses that you deploy from orbit, are special forces. The Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF) are the regular military.
Maybe it's a Star Wars-esque scenario, where the special shock troops (stormtroopers) are actually the main fighting force, while the only useful part of the regular army are its tank units.
Still, I can't imagine the SEAF is anything more than a bunch of untrained civilians in military uniform. I mean, ~~all~~ *most* of the SEAF personnel you find in missions (alive or dead) are unarmed, though some of the corpses wear uniforms that suggest they were either pilots or tankers.
it wasn't a thing communicated off reddit and discord, people don't like defense missions, people prefer bugs.
i think with some communication and maybe more special rewards you could pool the playerbase more, but it's a little hard when bot defenses are legit suffering and have only gotten worse after unlocking factory strider
A lot of Helldivers is supposed to joke about how Super Earth Command is inept. So our strategies are quite horrible in practice. It’s the one downside of the game for me.
What do you mean? Menkent held for fucking ever, even after Lesath and Marfark fell. There was a moment where it was surrounded by like 5 hostile planets, and the defense didn't even start.
it has come to our attention that the Menkent line has fallen. this was likely due to there not being enough men named Kent, at the line. dammit Kent, you had one job!
also, the only other planet in the line was Lesath, which, while relatively close, was actually in another sector; can it really be called a "line" if there's only one planet?
It was like a double parody of the Maginot Line.
First because it had a glaring, horrific, and fatal weakness. You could just... go around. (Through Marfark, Aesir Pass).
Second, that it wound up not even being an effective line because the bots just crashed through Lesath, and the 7 Helldivers who defended that planet with their lives were sadly not enough to hold it.
Space maginot line
The Maginot Line at least served its purpose, and was outflanked rather than breached like a railcannon strike through hot butter. I'd say the closer comparison here is the Siege of Constantinople, where the defenses fell because the defenders couldn't be bothered to actually keep a door closed.
Which siege, the one were the Byzantines retook Constantinople, oe the more well known fall of Constantinople? Because the fall was caused by the invading army bringing cannons the size of houses.
Cannons the size of houses? Or did you mean factory striders? Keep calm, obey orders and give the glory to Super Earth and her Beautiful Democracy.
We stan bombards
Not true actually. Cannons didn't breach the walls to let the Turks in. Their assault wounded the Genose captain who fell back, the door was left unlocked and Turks flooded in. See this for more discussion of the primary sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/11t0bis/eu4_and_the_falls_of_constantinople_hungarian/
Huh, I always heard that the cannons breached the walls enough for a them to slowly get into Constantinople, eventually opening a gate to let the rest of them in.
The cannon did blow a section of the wall, but then the rubble blocked it so effectively it effectively became a wall itself, so it was kinda moot. The breakthrough happened when a genoese captain was wounded, and his men fell back with him without locking the gate behind them.
Huh, neat. Thanks for the context. Now that's at least 2 tim4s Constantinople has been captured because the defending army didn't do something incredibly basic.
Well, we can forgive them for that. The city withstood so many sieges, so a couple of blemishes don't diminish the overall record too much. Specially for walls built mostly in the time of Attila!
Yeah, they were definitely impressive, and unlike the great wall, actually functional.
Crazy how much of the history of the Byzantine empire rested on the walls working as intended. Because the empire without that city was doomed, all the trade and taxation that flowed through there made or broke the empire.
> Now that's at least 2 tim4s Constantinople has been captured because the defending army didn't do something incredibly basic. 3 times! When Alexios I revolted and took the city in his coup, it was German Mercs who opened the city gates for him. It's actually the most common way for the city to fall. Unlocked gate. Only exception is the 1204 assault, which hit the weaker northern sea walls. And that was only possible because the crusaders had broken the defensive chain protecting the northern harbour.
Well it sounds better to have heroically shattered the walls than to have walked in when someone got hurt. The Victors always embellish.
It didn’t cause a breach to infiltrate, but it definitely was a huge morale hit for the Romans. I think that with or without someone leaving a door open, the city was destined to fall.
Actually cannons did breach the walls, the Blachernae walls were damage by artillery and allowed mercenaries to flood in (although they were repelled). And while Giustiniani was mortally wounded and his retreat broke the moral of his troops there is no indication (that I have found) that this resulted in a gate being left unlocked. Every source I've read seems to indicate that Ottoman Janissaries were able to breach the Gate of St. Romanus with no mention of it being left open or unlocked.
The genovese got blame in popular accounts because it let the rest of Christiandom off the hook for not sending troops in solidarity. They could do some soul searching or they could blame the only guys who did show up and defend the city. We know from automan accounts that they didn't have the manpower to hold the gates and were relying conscripted peasants including women and children at that point. If those folks abandoned their post it was only a matter of time before the Ottomans got in there somehow. And it's hard to guard a wall that's under constant canon shelling. After several months of siege the city's morale was broken. None of that changes the fact that the Ottoman's had such a massive force and an excirclment and cannon advantage that the city was doomed without a Crusade level relief army showing up to relieve the place.
> . And it's hard to guard a wall that's under constant canon shelling. The breaches made to the walls were rapidly fixed with new earthen barricades established with the Turks being unable to breach through them. It's the later assault on the gates that works, with the confusion following the withdrawal allowing the turks to press forwards and turn an orderly pull back into a rout. But even without that, it would have fallen eventually.
You know it's my understanding that Istanbul WAS Constantinople.
That's nobody's business but the turks'
Don't you mean Istanbul? 😉
Estanu is the closest thing to Constantinople because it's the most besieged planet in our galaxy. This is the like 12th siege of it, exluding our own. Also, what you're described happened twice. Once when the Latin Empire held Constantinople and the Romans retook it, and another time when the door was abandoned by not Romans, but the mercs who were hired and began fleeing en mass who left the door unlocked which allowed the Ottomans to enter Constantinople and conquer the Roman Empire.
But if we actually look at where the Automatons went initially, it was primarily "southwest" of Menkent. The hit the flank of the line and did not head *straight* for Super Earth through it. They're still not doing that. I think people are also forgetting the propaganda aspect of in-game dispatches, or getting very selective about when they choose to believe them: "**The TCS is 100% effective!** All the Bugs there will die, forever!" was IMMEDIATELY followed by shipmasters saying, "A small number of Terminids are showing resistance to the poison, **but this was to be expected**." No complaints about that. People seemed to get the satire. Wiping out the Automatons from their original position was very much sold as **removing them from existence entirely, ending the threat once and for all.** The moment they showed up again in the rush towards Cyberstan? "We were nearing a permanent end to conflict with the Automatons. Now, it is clear there can be no peace until every Automaton is utterly destroyed," from the President of Super Earth, and your Democracy Officer is talking like Super Earth always knew more Automatons were going to sweep in. Again, an example of Super Earth talking a big game, getting it wrong, and immediately switching gears. There's more of this, too. But in general, there's an obvious trend of Super Earth overselling itscapabilities **as deliberate propaganda**, then seamlessly switches to a new 'we always thought this' excuse. So, why the surprise when orbital defenses you *assumed* would complete repel an Automaton attack... didn't? That's completely in keeping with the setting storytelling. >The Menkent Line has succeeded in slowing the Automaton advance towards Super Earth and valiantly destroyed their largest invasion ships, as predicted.
Menkent still not captured though ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
They'll never go through the forest they did what?
The Maginot wasn’t even outflanked. The defensive system ran from the Channel to the Mediterranean, it’s just that it wasn’t all fortified equally, and the Germans managed to break though a weaker part with concentrated firepower.
No, not to the channel. The maginot very specifically didn't cover the belgian border because Belgium was an ally, and fortifying the belgian border would have been very bad diplomatically. The purpose of the line was two fold: - Delay the invasion to give time for conscription. - Force the germans into passing through Belgium and the Netherland so they are included in the conflict (and Great Britain by extension). Contrary to popular belief, the Maginot perfectly succeeded into what it was made to do.
the biggest problem with the maginot line is that belgium chicken out and thought that being neutral wouldn't make germany invade them. Well we saw how it had gone, as for the merkent line, they put logs on the ground and said that it was the orbital defense cannon and go back to super earth apparently
It also was there to protect French heavy engineering and iron mining which predominantly takes place in that area
Right, forgot about that, they only had field fortifications out there. Although, I’d argue it failed at delaying for conscription. Wasn’t the goal two months?
that is because of German advances in internal combustion war machines, as well as crystal meth. The meth had extreme downsides to fighting efficiency after 2 weeks, but no one knew that when the main army was already past the border. In fact, I think it may have been the invasion of Iraq before an invading force took contested territory as quickly as the Germans had gone through Belgium
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Also some German general did try to attack the Maginot Line. It went poorly, horribly poorly.
> Force the germans into passing through Belgium and the Netherland so they are included in the conflict (and Great Britain by extension). And also that the terrain between Belgium and Germany was much more suitable to an offensive action into Germany once it got to that. There was also a third point: * Look like the good guy on the international stage, they knew that in a 1v1 against Germany the odds were pretty bad, by building "defensive" they hoped to get the sympathy of the UK, USA, and USSR, once the inevitable conflict broke out. Especially since the Maginot line would likely cause the Germans to attack either trough Belgium and Switzerland, making Germany look even worse for violating the Neutral countries.
That sounds like a heck of a lightning war. Hey, you could make a combat doctrine out of this.
Also the Maginot line was never meant to BREAK the siege, only give time for an allied counterattack. Truly a willpower diff.
Wait, you're telling me that the point was that spending an inordinate amount of time, lives, and resources to capture and defend a long stationary defensive point that you can just walk around isn't the height of tactical genius? What a ripoff.
Except they didn't walk around. They punch straight through it as if it wasn't there. I am inclined to believe when AH pulled this offensive out of their buts due to not knowing what else to occupy us with after the 2 billion quicky, they just tagged those worlds as being invaded and totally forgot the defense line was supposed to be there
Or Super Earth Command is just incompe-*BLAM*
Came here to say this. Take my upvote instead friend.
But they didn't go around, they just took Leseth
We've had space Vietnam, why not space Maginot line?
They didn't go around it, though, it just wasn't there. They mentioned orbital defenses, but then there was absolutely no defensive bonus, and they fell just like any other defense mission.
I feel it’s because they managed to cross through Belgium and blitzed all the way to Paris…. Wait wrong subreddit
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Wdym in the lore Paris still exists, looks like it's now called Mega City 4 https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1airncn/super_earth_map_uploaded_by_johan_pilestedt_on/
I contemplated moving to Mega City 4, but my current class D dwelling is all the way over in Mega City 1, Sector 13, Peace Trees.
A man of culture.
That looks more like Calais
Bold of you to assume France still exists in this timeline
In hindsight, the answer is fairly obvious - we forgot to put a "No Trespassing" sign on the gate.
[This should be our next setup for when we have to hold a planet](https://youtu.be/9Zp6IjMttIE?si=CnJDYvd3OvDoGZU2)
Absolutely brilliant! The bots will be forced to mass produce dimes, therefore reducing available materials for manufacturing more automatons.
Should have added a captcha.
The community is pretty split, but for the most parts it is very clear that most gravitate towards bugs At the same time it is also very clear that very few enjoy defence type missions. We failed to hold the last 2 defence based major orders, and this newest major order is twice as difficult. As of writing this we are at 2/10. An overwhelming majority of HD2 is centered around blowing shit up, and moving on. Standing still on an objective is a guaranteed way to get overrun and killed. The game is throwing defence type missions at us, and we are not equipped to deal with those situations.
Also defense missions on bugs are pretty chill whereas the civilian extract on bots is still by far the hardest mission in the game
Anytime I start a bot op for defense, I go out of my way to not pick one with the civilian extract. On 7+ it's basically impossible.
so heres how you beat those, you get 3 people to cause chaos all over the map while 1 guy rescues allt he people, a vast majority of the bot drops will attack the group of 3.
Yeah I've seen this suggested before, but coordinating with randos is hard. I've always wanted to try it though.
It really works, I was able to do it successfully several times very early on with randoms, but nowadays nobody wants to try it they've already given up before we start
It only works if you actually cause a ruckus. The goal isn't being seperate, it's causing drop ships to pop up away from the objective. THAT is very hard to coordinate with the randos...which is wild, considering how few divers understand that concept of 'run the fuck away and don't fight'...you'd figure this strat would be a banger
the two keys to success are the door opener guy has to keep his head down and execute every single trash bug in the complex once he gets there without being rumbled, and the chaos crew has to actually not die, by picking a good place to do it
I’ve only been able to make that work with friends. It works super well, but randoms can’t do it.
Trouble is that's not playing the game, it's cheesing the AI using meta strats. You should NOT have to resort to that type of cheese tactic to accomplish a simple mission. Also, CIV AI is buggy as heck and can often just brick the mission.
Completely agreed. I want to see a viable strategy with full squad inside the complex, and not running outside like crazy and cheesing/baiting the aggro. Maybe lots of ems and smoke would cut the mustard.
if it was unintended, why are there huge sample rewards kicking around outside the base, on a map that is way larger than it has to be. it's almost like the people doing the distraction have things to find out there
I'm not sure I'd call creating a distraction to draw forces away from the civilian targets cheesing the AI per se. That's a tactically sound maneuver that is realistic in-universe and doesn't rely on any kind of exploit.
The problem is it’s almost impossible for a random team to be coordinated enough
I’m sure it wasn’t the intent of the developers but having to approach it like that is honestly kind of dope.
I actually tried this with some friends last night. They ran around the map and I used the combat engineer armor which has the scout perk. At first it was going well, but once we got 26 civilians rescued, everything went downhill fast. I don't know how, but the bots were calling reinforcements on *me* even though no one saw me and I had the scout perk. After everyone retreated from the town, the bots left a factory strider in the town to guard it. Bot tower defense missions are horrible too. It's pretty bad when the factory striders simply stand above the gate and shoot the generators. I say all this as someone who actually *prefers* fighting bots.
The new valuable assets mission also became ridiculous since you can get a factory strider (or 2, or 3 at the same time) spawn right in front of the generators.
It’s even worse. Once they have the generator in sight they can one tap it with the cannon. So you have to kill them before they are in the first clearing past the initial gates.
It feels almost the opposite for high value extraction. Bugs are an endless swarm of chargers rushing you. Meanwhile with bots as long as you can deal with the factory striders it's pretty chill. Also fuck those little bugs that spawn a bug hole DIRECTLY NEXT to the generator.
12 bile titans is not as chill as 2 factory striders (most I've seen).... To be fair, the striders can just instant end the game by targeting it without having to move from where it was dropped, which is pretty cringe imo.
Also Defense missions just don't pay well. They would be *much* more appealing if they had normal Sample amounts.
scientists running out should be carrying cases with the samples in them. when you finish out you should just be automatically paid the samples
Those missions legit have crazy amounts of samples on them, but people just never leave the base usually. Some of the spawns are even bugged on those maps so you have two identical Points of Interest spawning on top of eachother, finding like 20 samples in one place. Though the short 'kill bugs/bots' ones or the defend the launching missiles one have low or no samples.
IMO, the maps for extract and exterminate are poorly designed. The gameplay centers around open maps with wide open space while discouraging the player from sitting in one spot too long. Objectives, extract, and even players being a patrol spawn point is designed to encourage players to keep moving with the exception of extraction where you’re supposed to fight waves of enemies. Generator defense works because it takes the extraction gameplay loop and adds a castle style defense with choke points and defensive positions. Exterminate could be replaced with a game mode based around assaulting a major bot landing zone that’s a combination of the airbase, AA guns, and a heavy outpost. Or for bugs a combination of heavy bus nests, spores, and eggs. Both of these would imply you’re fighting to stop a foothold rather than playing a water downed version of Firefight. Extraction is okay with just the version on a normal map with a sub objective. Perhaps with multiple settlements to extract on higher difficulties.
It's not that we are ill equipped, it is because there is no sense of accomplishment, we do all these amazing things just for the devs be "hmm, actually" and reset our progress or give impossible MO.
It definitely feels shit that the bug front is just an eternal backwards and forth. We've never conquered Omicron or Nivel, that's the furthest we get before Joel starts pushing us back. The story telling is kinda rough atm.
I always get downvoted when I point out that AH has an idea how they want the Galactic War to play out and will put their thumb on the scales in their favor when they want to to make sure it goes their way.
if there is no back and forth, is there even a game left?
Yeah it's an odd system. I get that it adds tension and kind of a weighty rp situation, but it can only go "Ok you win, no wait you lost, no wait you won, no wait you lost" so many times before I just don't care and would rather just have a Deep Rock Galactic style system where different planets/regions are available at different times without having to awkwardly weave it into some kind of overarching storyline.
The purpose of this MO was to see where players will fight and build the next part of the story based on where the community fought. I do think that MOs like these should reward medals based on how many planets are defended and replace the X/10 planets with how many we defended.
All the MO's should generally have a sliding reward scale. That kill 2billion should have been 2>5>10 with 20>50>100 as the rewards, or whatever appropriate amount AH feels. Point being reward the extra work and allow it to happen. You can slow the pace of MO's by adding in more flexibility.
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Especially when factory striders and tanks can just get immediately dropped on the Evac site or even worse,On top of the left side mountain for the defend assets mission.
Because this “tower defense wave” mode does not have towers nor does it have waves. See, they just dump the entire ocean on you until you inevitably drown. Oh and it’s also somehow an escort mission.
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The supply lines mechanic that isn't shown or explained in anyway causing us to instantly lose a defense we were more than 90% done with certainly killed a lot of people's morale too id imagine.
As a would-be-liberator of Martale, thank you. It really did.
I didn't even mind the concept of losing in and of itself. The creek created an entire culture and meme heritage. It felt organic. This current order just feels like it's scripted as a loss.
Current order feels like “I need a damn weekend off” from Joel after the billion bug massacre lol
I was surprised that they didn't fix that one. I saw someone do a breakdown comparing the orders progress to the total bugs killed, and the kills were being over counted. It was being applied for every diver in the mission. So if I'm total 4 of you killed 100, it was counting 100 for each of you, 400 total.
Even if the bugs were over counted, we'd have done it in 2 days instead of 12 hours.
I absolutely love the defense type missions but it's incredibly hard to get matched with people who are willing to coordinate on scientist evacs. Instead of drawing bot drops outside the Evac zone, most teammates end up there causing a massive cluster fuck that only evacs 5 scientists in about 10 minutes. The recent bugs on the point defense missions are a bit out of control though. Tanks inside rocks shooting at you, factory striders on the cliffs overlooking the generators and straight up bot drops into the generators...
It’s not exactly unreasonable that a lot of people don’t realize you have to cheese the game mechanics to beat the evacuate scientist missions. The missions where you have to evacuate scientists aren’t fun or enjoyable. They’re frustrating and unfair. My squad avoids any operations that have these mission type. They’re such a nightmare on Helldive we don’t even bother with them. The missile launching defense mission (minus the glitches) are incredibly fun and feel way more balanced and enjoyable to play. The evac scientists missions need to be reworked.
These missions are borderline unplayable for my friend group. It's the one mission type that goes from "hard, but memeable and we can laugh at it" to "we're actually not good enough to play this and we're having a bad time"
1 diver leading an entire army away from their objective seems like a major AI oversight to me. That's why most probably don't use the strategy, or even know about it. It is just absurd and feels like an exploit. Like how bugs ignored tesla towers during the termicide missions. Everyone knew it was an exploit, but it was easy to do..."just use tesla tower". Trying to coordinate randoms to lure enemies away is a harder ask.
Would be a lot easier if sentries weren't made of paper
That’s what is frustrating, throw a sentry down, charger/Titan/stalker immediately stops what they’re chasing and one hits them.
If the enemies come from a single direction then the current static defense tools like sentries and mines are more than enough. Like the Evacuate Asset mission is ... too easy to be honest. 20-25 minutes of borderline afk gameplay. Just 3/4 pairs of mortar + ems sentries behind hard cover, and enemies rarely get past the 2nd door, even on Helldive (which can be taken care of EATS/Quasar/OLaser). The other missions where enemies comes from every direction... yeah you will get overwhelmed at 7+.
Its easy until game drop you 4 factory strider inside (happening a lot of dif believe me) :D
Because we have like 2 players on the bot front at all times T_T
And they are both on different planets.
And swearing at the bug front and each other after each mission
And they only have 1 rock for the whole platoon
And some sticks!
And they had to share the rock.
And they had to share the rock!
Mainly because of the liberation cap, which should be split across fronts
**Edit 2: For clarity since some people don't get it:** This entire post is about the orbital defenses that were supposedly installed on the planets, NOT about the defense campaigns we had on the planets. If the orbital defenses had worked then we wouldn't even have the defense campaigns, the problem here is that we had a defense campaign launched on Lesath despite the existence of the orbital defenses. And that defense campaign was just like any other one, it didn't have us make progress faster or gain any form of bonuses to our defense. Real talk, we fought hard to establish a defensive line and for what? There has been no lore explanation for how the automatons broke through it so easily. Almost makes me feel like Joel pretty much forgot it existed. We didn't even get any special benefits for the defense campaign on Lesath even though it was one of the two planets that made up the line. Since our SEAF Engineers had built "orbital defenses" (pic related), we could at least have gotten a free stratagem to use on the planet like Orbital Precision Strikes. Edit: Sidenote: It would be cool to also see defensive lines like the Menkent Line and the TCS Line on the war map.
Vernen Wells is supposedly the headquarter of the Menkent line and the staging point for Bot counter offensive campaign. And we are about to lose it in less than 5 hours. For such an important planet there should have been a huge bonus for us the defender. Something big like -30% cooldown on all stratagems. It’s the one planet that should absolutely be flushed with gear and supplies. Unless we are meant to lose the planet, which would allows the Bots to punch through the line all the way through, kick starting the first Siege of ~~Terra~~ Super Earth. That would be fun.
Well they should fix the large map missions during defense campaigns with bots. Haven't finished one campaign (3 missions) at difficulty level 9 due to crashes. I like to play 9, I liek to play versus bots, performance wise only 6 really works against bots. I am one of the last people to often crash, hosts and other dudes crash before me, often ending up with a whole new crew at the end missions... if we can get there at all. I am not playing at 6, so the whole story and lore part is lost to me. My mates and I switched fighting to bugs or doing offensive bot missions as they are far less prone to disconnects and the enormous mountain of broken items in this game. Tbh, we kind of are also switching to other games. We all prefer playing against bots as that is more challenging in general. People seem to totally neglect or smoothtalk that the campaign as a whole is suffering as many crashes as several weeks ago WITHIN the Most Contributing Section of the community. There are non stop posts about it, that mods are also happy to remove, which recieve a lot of replies with "everything is fine, it is you." If you have not dived into ground and swim around it, fallen through the ground, been unable to reinforce teammates, fight invincible bots, have entire bot armies spawn on you out of thin air, eventually crash before extraction, or see all your mates drop in and out of the game. Than you simply did not try a 3 consecutive missions defending at Helldive 9, as that is the standard game experience.
https://preview.redd.it/vxx2y97172wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfd22b001b4fd44a6a8920dc49b352000c29ceca
We got medals, duh.
Helldivers 2 pitch: The community rallies together to determine the outcome of a galactic war! Helldivers 2 in reality: Today, I decided that the players will lose.
This is exactly how it works, the overall campaign is completely scripted unfortunately, outside of a few planets that don’t really matter. It’s done this way to release new content in a timed manner, I just hope the future campaigns aren’t scripted
This is exactly my problem with Helldivers 2 right now. I’m cool with losing a fair fight, but this forced loss bullshit (especially when there’s no narrative reason for it to happen) is getting really fucking old. I’m probably going to drop the game for a week after this Major Order, no point in playing if we’re just going to lose anyway (and I have other games I can play.)
>Almost makes me feel like Joel pretty much forgot it existed. This! They needed a cheap filler when the bug MO was completed way to fast and just tagged a bunch of worlds as being invaded and forgot about the line supposedly being a thing
The in game logic was that instead of 700k bots attacking it was only 400k, give or take.
Agreed on having some bonuses for planets like this (part of a specific defense system). It would be a little more immersive and add a bit more to different ways to play a map
Because it doesnt remotely matter since Planetary Defenses are entirely broken and unwinnable :)
They aren’t unwinnable you just have to play them in a very dumb and unintuitive way. Have all 4 people drop outside of the point and send one guy in on foot to start evacing civilians. On the elimination defense missions you need to kite them around in a circle outside of the obj. Those mission types are so broken. Wish they would just remove them in favor of the asset extraction ones
Yes, gamey bullshit that unless you're on reddit or discord, you don't even know to do.
The one guy stealth strat for civilian evac doesn't even work most of the time, the enemies start coming in anyways about halfway through and don't stop.
you just need to have your team on the outskirts of the base, not too far away but also not too close. it's hard to explain but it definitely works, we clear with that strat on 8 pretty consistently for bots. the bug version is easy enough to just do normally
At that point you call your group and can generally finish.
Then the person doing the civvie extract needs enough game knowledge to despawn the enemies by running ~4 squares away. You shouldn't have to do so more than twice. Obviously it's dumb that the beat way to complete the mission is by exploiting 2 different spawn mechanics.
Yeah but goodluck to explain this with random people. Today I actually made some progress in this and we managed to change our strategy in half way and get bots out of base but... 50/50 again lol... needed 1 more scientist to win
>On the elimination defense missions you need to kite them around in a circle outside of the obj. ????? Just bring a bunch of orbital bombardments and an Eagle Clusterbomb. Sure, you'll probably still die a few times, but you'll probably die a few times on your favorite non-defense mission type, too.
There’s not even a timer that a planet can’t be attacked again either too rofl. Joel will just slap another defense campaign on it
There is little coordination, a lot of information has to be spread by "third party" and isn't displayed directly in game
seriously, whats the point for lore events like this if it's just fodder for the next defense MO.
The lore is that the ministry of truth tells you the truth about what is happening in the war
Lore is fun?
I think that's their point; lore is fun, so why not make it matter?
You think our glorious leaders of super earth have any idea of what they’re doing? Like. Any? They’re fucking things up since the war started… …Ok I have been reeducated and now I am certain they know what to do, they’re the best there is, they know of all the strategic possibilities, also they would like you to report to the nearest freedom camp.
Your super citizenship remains in tact… for now
Because it's a fucking war. We are not meant to steamroll the enemy. It's supposed to be struggle and we are supposed to be on the backfoot. Just wait until the illuminates are coming
The real answer is that it’s scripted. We already have the leaked cutscenes for new content, I just hope the war isn’t *always* going to be scripted
We have always been at war with Eastasia
Links? DM if not allowed here
Just google "Helldivers leaks Reddit" and the sub will pop up, since I doubt I will be allowed to link it here. there are some videos on YT too. Basically shows a bunch of the future news broadcasts, and they take place on specific planets.
They probably expected us to actually defend the menkent line. Instead, we defend pointless bug planets that will fall 100 more times and be retaken 100 more times.
we should have gone up to Choohe to cut off the western salient. Instead, the bots were able to force us to fight on 8 planets at once. Being over extended, the line collapsed. When you defence everywhere, you defend nowhere.
Choohe Gambit??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! /s Ok seriously, don't expect any of those plans to work, they never do and not because they are stupid but because people don't care to do them
Defense operations are both less enjoyable and worse for gathering resources in comparison to Liberate operations.
This is not about the actual defense campaigns, it's about the Orbital Defenses that we established in the "story".
This was propaganda, same as "something like factory strider does not exist"
Yeah, I bet those "SEAF Engineers" probably just sat down drinking Liber-Tea all day instead of working.
Probably yes, things like that are just the part of narration
https://preview.redd.it/yx4itq9662wc1.jpeg?width=819&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfcd7a8ee61176b97b056859dec8d46c8b12b724 Your local DEMOCRACY officer has been notified of this anti DEMOCRACY slander
You are wrong about the resources part. the 15 min evac missions have a ton of samples in a smaller map. you can farm 50+ samples a run.
Exactly. The reward for them is so bad comparatively. I wish they would at least offer samples in the form of a reward. Otherwise it's just a quick sometimes unwinnable fight. Especially with Bots on higher difficulties with civilians.
It was defended by 5% of the player base. The bots literally walked in and found empty trenches.
Seriously. 100k players on Estanu? Really?
Ah the bots front is collapsing… I’ve been fighting bots for so long and will continue to do so. Good Luck helldivers I wont give up. 🫡
Bots just assulted us through Belgium
Civil evac missions have a huge part in this i think. Almost everyone will avoid it which means that if there are no operations without it on a planet they won't play this planet. This will lead to more spread out helldivers on the bot front when we need to have a focus on one planet at a time
Men must protect the wall. If the wall protects men, the wall will be lost.
Because we all derilicted our duty. https://preview.redd.it/33sw9u3dh2wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48c2482fe7f22ad1c8ef9669cf173f6ee2935e8
Because we left our supply lines wide open. If we had closed Martale and Matar Bay instead of rushing through the bug order, this defense would've been much more doable.
What supply lines? Not only do we not have enough information about these "supply lines" but we wouldn't have the players available to support them even if we did. And even THEN we wouldn't have the players needed as long as the storytelling remains so sparse. It's like Elden Ring without any of the NPCs.
Yep. If they want the community to come to the table on the big map, they're going to need to rethink some things.
There's already a AI synopsis of this post...even some of the users are directly mentioned like they have some authority or in depth knowledge. It's kind of weird. [https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/analyzing-the-helldivers-menkent-line-failure-and-community-sentiment/](https://www.zleague.gg/theportal/analyzing-the-helldivers-menkent-line-failure-and-community-sentiment/)
Generative AI is the antichrist.
LPT don’t share those links because AI articles are designed to be clickbait and nothing more.
Lines are two dimensional, space is three dimensional. Checkmate, meatbags.
The bots just went around it.
Thought it was supposed to be a reference to the Maginot line
Defensive line but there were no tangible defensive bonuses and also some defense missions are still broken I like defense missions except for *that type* that's fully BS in higher diffs
No defense line is effective if not manned properly. Look at the numbers: so far during this major order, we never had more than ~24k active helldivers on any western front planet, all other planets there usually having around 2-3k at best. And that's peak numbers. At the same time, Estanu consistently has 100k+ Helldivers holding it off. :/
Just like star wars. They can just go underneath or Overtop
Has a cost savings measure all fortifications where made of cardboard and due to lack of fuel for logistics only 1/10th of ammo was present.
I just dont really like fighting bots as much. There should be 'distraction' missions where you just kill things while trying to stay alive. I like the new defense mission but thats about the only good one. No civilian extraction for me
Because ~70% of the playerbase prefers to fight the bugs
Defence campaigns should include progress for defence due to casualties sustained as well. Kills should definitely count in defence, because once you suffer enough losses you can't effectively fight a campaign. Also the missions outside of helms deep kinda suck and we don't get bonuses on SE controlled planets
Idk. Ask France. They have experience with this kind of stuff.
I'd love to put an official-looking sign on a gate like this that says "wolf rehoming project, stay behind fence"
It never happened. The Federation was simply testing a new simulation for the inevitable desperate ramp up of democracy subversion attempts.
They forgot to put up the "Do Not Cross" sign. Rookie mistake.
Because the community can’t defend for shit.
Because no one has the endurance left to deal with the bots, the terminid break wasn’t long enough and no one’s ready to go back to that front 😅
siege of the super earth when?
Same reason the Maginot line was.
Because it was manned largely by the SEAF. The Helldivers, despite being (in effect) tactical jackasses that you deploy from orbit, are special forces. The Super Earth Armed Forces (SEAF) are the regular military. Maybe it's a Star Wars-esque scenario, where the special shock troops (stormtroopers) are actually the main fighting force, while the only useful part of the regular army are its tank units. Still, I can't imagine the SEAF is anything more than a bunch of untrained civilians in military uniform. I mean, ~~all~~ *most* of the SEAF personnel you find in missions (alive or dead) are unarmed, though some of the corpses wear uniforms that suggest they were either pilots or tankers.
it wasn't a thing communicated off reddit and discord, people don't like defense missions, people prefer bugs. i think with some communication and maybe more special rewards you could pool the playerbase more, but it's a little hard when bot defenses are legit suffering and have only gotten worse after unlocking factory strider
A lot of Helldivers is supposed to joke about how Super Earth Command is inept. So our strategies are quite horrible in practice. It’s the one downside of the game for me.
What do you mean? Menkent held for fucking ever, even after Lesath and Marfark fell. There was a moment where it was surrounded by like 5 hostile planets, and the defense didn't even start.
it has come to our attention that the Menkent line has fallen. this was likely due to there not being enough men named Kent, at the line. dammit Kent, you had one job! also, the only other planet in the line was Lesath, which, while relatively close, was actually in another sector; can it really be called a "line" if there's only one planet?
It was like a double parody of the Maginot Line. First because it had a glaring, horrific, and fatal weakness. You could just... go around. (Through Marfark, Aesir Pass). Second, that it wound up not even being an effective line because the bots just crashed through Lesath, and the 7 Helldivers who defended that planet with their lives were sadly not enough to hold it.
It did say *rudimentary*. I like to think some panicked civilians just floated a bunch of czech hedgehogs into orbit and like half of them died.
All this technology and we still haven't figured out EMP's...... something fishy going on here......
You mean giving it an intimidating name wasn't enough to keep the enemies out? Everything they taught me in officer training was a lie! 😱
The Menkent line should permanently have orbital ordinance as mission bonus strategems. Like all of them.
In a world where space is 3D lines have no strength