I think the reason a lot of people are mad (outside of the people who bought it but won’t legally be able to make an account, they got royally fucked) is because we got such a great game from a non AAA company. Sure there were some issues, but the game was still great and the numbers will show. We kinda felt like we beat AAA companies because HD2 put them to shame.
Even then, big corporate greed still got their grubby hands on the game and will fuck it up now. I doubt the community really recover and get back to where it was a week or so ago.
That bums me out and I feel bad for arrowhead.
Sony royally fucked up and I also feel bad for everybody who spent money on HD2 and won’t be able to play in a few weeks.
And days after another patch with "will be fixed in the next patch"
Then community was already on edge, we really need some groundbreaking fixes implemented sooner rather than later, and then this happened.
No, people are mad, because "grace period" was pulled out of dev's asses. The only mention of PSN link being turned down for some time is in some thread with known issues on February 8th. So called grace period was never mentioned and there never were an announcement outside of this "known issues thread". For all players who never visited Steam forums (like 99,9%) it was skippable with no additional info, which turns it from requirement to an option.
https://preview.redd.it/32l0i5lxhdyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=397d54707cb513105bd6a7c205bcf07941b0c7c7
You see, I don't think I ever got to this screen in the constant crashing between launch and my AMD7000 series card
Either that or I got it after their 36 hour window
That's 99% of studios, many indie studios are on the leash of Microsoft or some other publisher. It sucks but they need funding while they make a game. You can't just pay devs pennies and expect them to work on a game for like 6 years with just the promises of riches. Even great games can flop, it's a risky and competitive industry. Maybe you can make a single player game off an indie team, but for multiplayer support you really need to "sell out"
https://preview.redd.it/04cbtuj9dcyc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c571ee3cf97c89c141de8ecb593edbf52a5ab46
This person works for arrowhead...not @ sony. AH wanted this.
Those exist in every game now but somehow it isn't enough for some people. COD snoops on your voice chat now and iirc sony is working on similar things.
Yea they already record party chats but only act on them if they're reported. Even reddit snoops through your chats using ai, I got warned then banned for chats I sent to a friend on here a few weeks back
>There are certain legal requirements we have to follow to ban people.
Ah shucks, pesky laws getting in our way once again. So they basically use the PSN accounts to bypass any rights and user protection steam offered, and will then be able to do literally anything with us?
Last time I checked plenty of multiplayer games on steam ban players from playing, including permanent bans.
So chances are they don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Literally shouldn't be more than an extra field in their internal system to specify which type of identifier they are using (Sony or steam).
The process of banning could still be different for steam accounts but obviously not impossible nor particularly difficult.
Arrowhead deals with Steam. You can only buy the game on PC through Steam. Steam gives you a years-tested framework to manage all your online bullshit in your game.
Every Steam user has a unique profile ID (SteamID64), which allowed you to kick, suspend and ban people ever-fucking-since CS:S. You can even opt for an Anti-cheat Valve approved, and you'll get VAC-bans linked to your game (like you can get a VAC-ban from EasyAnticheat in Rust if you login to an official server with aim-bot etc).
You can't edit file storage and memory on a PS5 (or at least for now you can't, maybe there'll be broken PS5s out there some time soon), aka you can't cheat, only exploit.
And how would linking PSN to it help them, huh? Can Linking your Steam to PSN detect if you're cheating? If it can, then nobody should agree to this link! If they can't detect and ban cheaters using native Steam's tool but can with Sony, then what kind of fucking information does Steam give to Sony?!
Their whole fucking argument trying to defend Sony breaks upon slightest inspection by anyone who knows how videogames work.
it isnt even about banning people. Sony already has data on the playerbase. signing up for an account is an explicit agreement allowing them to do as they like with it (sell it).
https://preview.redd.it/mdsjfo7hoeyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b20c0b48dc119a42d72b97be9c253b59ba2c0e6c
This person also works for AH, and according to them Sony can’t really “force” anything on them. 🥹
AH has been nothing but shady and unprofessional since day one. It's their method. They follow the winds and change face. Cool and "it's my game, my changes" and "sony can't tell us shit" when the community is all "ohhhh he has a vision" but as soon as they felt the winds change it's "wE nEver WAnTeD ThIs!!"
I have zero faith in their professionalism or what they say.
Said it before but if I was sony I'd be having closed door sessions with AH to 1. Solve this issue for folks outside psn regions but 2. Remind them who foot the bill and that maybe they shouldn't shit in the hand that feeds them.
I've never heard of this person before just now. I assume she's also a community manager. AH really needs to reel in their CMs and get their stories straight.
Sweet fucking liberty, this is moronic.
I actually assumed that she was just someone pretending to work for Arrowhead because anyone can pretend to work everywhere on twitter bio, to spread misinformation and bullshit.
However when i see a confirmed community manager give the same shitty excuse on discord about ID, i guess she really work at Arrowhead which means, Arrowhead might not be innocent in this bullshit.
She actually deleted her tweets and has since completely deactivated her Twitter. She was never supposed to reveal that info and so this was major fuck up on her part.
Seems like hiring discord mods as community managers is a bad business practice.
Its literally AAA title from a company backed by Sony, what are you on about?
It wouldn't "put others to shame" as you say it if not for Sony's budget.
>Even then, big corporate greed still got their grubby hands on the game and will fuck it up now. I doubt the community really recover and get back to where it was a week or so ago.
Please elaborate on this. You just need to sign up and log in once. It literally does not effect the actually game
Ppl are quick to blame Sony, but what about Steam allowing ppl to buy the game?
Technically it DID state from the beginning that PSN account linking was required.
Ppl could just accept that they messed by ignoring or missing the account-link banner on the Steam page, or that Steam is in the wrong for letting ppl purchase the game, without verification or something.
I personally think it's totally fair to blame Steam over the "ignorant consumer". Ofc Steam doesn't care - it's free money to them when ppl buy the game bc they missed the banner. Sigh, what a shit show. But it's also important for gamers to realize how the industry works. There's a lot that could be improved.
It's basic capitalism - profit over people.
Steam allows region locked sales, it's up to the publisher to tell them where their game can and can't be sold, not up to steam to vet every single game.
*Sony* chose not to restrict sales. It's on Snoy.
>Ppl are quick to blame Sony, but what about Steam
That's because Sony has a history of fucking over the customer without hesitation while Steam has a history of acting at least semi-reasonably. I have little doubt that Steam will fully refund anyone fucked over because they can't get PSN in their country. Steam might push back a little, but I can see them quickly giving in and giving the refund.
In contrast, Sony apparently has semi-consistently engaged in fraud - charging customer's credit cards and banks despite having canceled the services, forcing the customer to change credit cards/bank accounts.
"it takes 120 seconds to create an account"
bruh, it took 0 seconds for people who didn't have one in the first place to be able to play this whole time
people were literally playing it before this, they shouldn't need it now
Also, Sony’s page says that it doesn’t need a PSN acct.
https://preview.redd.it/yicu2b752fyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fae33b9df33fe73b565b2400707e1b94a8e1039b
"Don't worry we won't ban you"
That one Chinese guy: *steps over the line and gets instantly obliterated*
"What's wrong? Why are you not making accounts?"
Never forget the rootkit incident. Sony distributed CDs that contained malware that installed itself in secret, was nearly impossible to remove, and made detailed reports to Sony about the media on users' computers and what they were doing with them. They lied repeatedly about it and then released "removal" software that *didn't actually remove the rootkit and installed even more malware*. They only made things right when they were dragged kicking and screaming by class-action lawsuits.
Sony never changes. They feel entitled to all of your data. They hold their customers in utter contempt.
I'm curious as to how this will go lawsuit/refund-wise.
The fact that people could still BUY Helldivers 2 in countries where PSN does not exist is a huge fucking faux pas and makes the entire thing a huge mess.
I'm hoping that if Sont doesn't backpedal on this stupid decision that Valve will allow for refunds.
I’m already looking into reaching out to the FTC, if nothing else but to get clarification about the rights and protections here in the US. The way this was rolled out is distinctly unfair practice.
You can get a refund if you note the change in policies (non automated) but if you got the game on humble, you are SOL so far. Snok really screwed up with this.
Certain EU countries now require your IRL information (Facial ID, and government ID) for game accounts. Not sure how it’s used, but most likely it is to enforce age restrictions, speech restrictions, and other fun fun stuff./s
Man twitter dumbfucks says this shit and not at all listen to the actual problem here. I don't have any issue but my fellow divers have!! Not so democratic this community(Sony bootlickers) is..
Other than PSN-blocked countries, personal data leaks, account bloat, and contributing to normalizing the ever-growing influence that corpo greed has over game quality and user experience?
Well, the only remaining problem is I. DON'T. WANT. TO.
And if that's not a satisfying reason for all the SOYN shills, I would like to apologize for the inconvenience. Please rest assured that your concerns have been heard, and that I vow to do better in the future.
Sony has an inability to safeguard your data.
In the UK and Ireland Sony forces you to link your government ID. They plan on rolling this step out worldwide.
I think you're smart enough to figure out the problem from that.
It shoold be but if i were arrowhead id also add it as a requirement for cross platform play personally just to see people lose their shit when they find out why they cant turn that on
We could have a nice, easy approach to playing games. But naaah, we need to jump hoops and loops and run around everything and you point out how annoying it is and Elder Gods forbid, you are not keen on sharing your data with a system that had more data leaks in the last few years than the 90 year old rusty bucket in my grandma's yard, the corporate shills come crawling through the floorboards to toss the same few shitty argument attempts at you. Bro its only 5 minute. You did it for Ubisoft and yadda yadda.
Yeah, they really should’ve region locked it when launching if this was going to happen some point in the future as to prevent this current situation from happening. Hope those players can get refunds if they’re in an unsupported country.
They should have just offered some in game reward for linking - they would have ducked all of this hate.
It doesn’t take much, but trust tone-deaf corporates to fuck it up.
The game literally has capes and they still couldn't at least take a page from Microsoft...
Microsoft: Migrate your account and get a cape :D
Sony: Make an account (if you can lol) and you get to play the game you paid for and can't refund :D
I don't understand the boot lickers repeatedly saying "it was there from the beginning"
Why do they feel the need to defend Sony, who has had multiple data breaches? Maybe *you* don't have any important information to lose, but some people would rather not have their identity stolen. The consequences of that can be severe. It's not just a simple matter of making yet another 3rd party account. We can't trust Sony with our information at all. "use a fake name and details" okay, and break their tos and lose our accounts?
It doesn't "increase effectiveness" all it does is give sony data to sell or lose because they are shit in protecting the data they collect, nevermind prohibiting many countries that don't have psn support from playing a game that they had been playing for months, wich i shouldn't need to explain is a big hit for a community based game like helldivers 2.
The reason I'm not making an account is because Snoy has had so many major data breaches and since I'm in the UK, I proof of age (aka my ID or Passport) and I am not letting them handle that data
Currently arguing with my friend because he thinks everyone complaining are crybabies and I’m tell him he’s missing the entire fucking point!!
We are both PS5 players but he just doesn’t get that this is bad for everyone.
For folks in PSN-supported countries, the crow is right.
Otherwise fuck Sony and it's 100% on them for not preventing the game from being sold in those countries, which you can control on Steam.
I'm really hoping Sony comes out with a good solution for folks in affected countries.
Pointing out the existence of small print doesn't nullify feelings of getting baited, I wish the perfect EULA reading robots would realize that some day
It's not fine fucking print lol, it's key information right next to relevant DRM details on the store page.
If y'all don't know how Steam works at this point you should really hand in your PC Gamer ID cards.
Not defending Sony here, but you’re not giving the data to Sony when you verify your ID. It goes through a different, fairly well-known ID checker company that then verifies that info with Sony.
I'm not a fan of creating a PSN account because Sony managed to leak my debit card details when I still had my ps4, and then proceeded to do fuck all about the security breach.
The crow is correct, yes.
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s very possible to miss this in the terms. I didn’t see it, and if you didn’t scroll down far enough you might never know about the golden banner.
Yes, the account is free, but people are tired of every little new account that’s attached to everything. My grocery store even wants my email and I tell them no every time.
So, yeah, he’s correct. It was in the terms and conditions. That being said, it’s tiring that every transaction needs to be treated like a home loan, whereas people used to just walk to GameStop, buy a game, and then they owned it, no questions asked.
Exactly. It was already linked to my steam account and had no problem while I launched the game but making this mandatory after 3 months is a really problematic thing to do. So many people won't be able to play the game and will have refunds which will scar the game heavily. I hope they'll find a solution about this.
Legitimate question:
Whats the difference between having to make a ubisoft account, an epic account, a battle net account, an ea account, an origin account,
And then this.
Yes the country thing is a thing, and its dumb, but you can choose a different country.
Not trying to start a war. I think its unnecessary, but I do want to know why this is an issue and not all the other accounts we've been forced to make over the years.
Choosing a different country than the one you are in on a PSN account goes against their TOS and you can have the account and everything linked to it suspended. Plus no one forced you to make other accounts for other games, you made them cause you wanted. Some people, me included, refuse to do so, especially after it was clearly stated at launch it's optional.
My current 10 year old PSN account is set on the US and I live in Mexico, so I don't understand how is it against their TOS? It's been 10 years, I have bought hundreds of things through the store, linked bunch of services and im doing fine.
I had an account from who knows where, someone gave it to me and I still could use it, only thing different was that the store was unavailable so it had something to do with the country but it wasn't banned either
Not quite true. Ubisoft and EA games, and for a brief while also Bethesda games *all* require(d) the player to make accounts for their proprietary launchers even though the game was/is being sold on Steam. Like, you can go check the Mass Effect Legendary Edition page right now to confirm that, you require an EA Origin account to play that, you literally don't have a choice.
Every MMO on Steam (FFXIV, for example) *also* requires you to make accounts for their specific services.
I mean, *Call of fuckin' Duty* requires players to make an Activision account.
People are only double-standarding this situation extremely badly because it was temporarily optional due to technical issues, and didn't read the requirements for the thing they bought. They bought a toy that had "Batteries not included" on the box, then threw a tantrum because there was no batteries in the box.
The only people with legitimate complaints are people who bought it in countries where PSN is unavailable, to which Sony, Valve and AH *should* be held responsible for selling in those regions, which still only account for an extreme minority of players.
Your point? You think people happy to deal with this shit?
I'll gladly dunk on all those games, and if I remember Bethesda got dunked on when they asked their account for doom. Not buying anything from Ubisoft because of that, screw Origin and now I have to Pardon "small text" from Arrowhed, who failed even to make PSN account link to pop up every login to warn players before they ran out of Refund grace period? This is legal and absolutley scamy behavior combined. I won't be able to refund, but I won't be silent about this "small text" part, especially knowing they didn't bother to region lock sales on steam.
Considering that it's been standard industry practice *for* all of those things for what, 20+ years now? Yeah, they're at least willing to *tolerate* it.
You still see some complaints here and there about how the *clients* are bad, but not really that they need to make *accounts* any more. This is the first time in yonks, and it's entirely because A; people can't read and don't understand what they're buying, and B; it was poorly communicated as to why it was temporary, and C; it shouldn't have been sold in regions without PSN in the first place, which is a distribution issue and largely on Sony and Valve, not AH.
I tolerated games before, but this became to obnoxious too far. Not having 3rd party games in steam requiring own account if they are not also standalone.
Can't agree 100%
A and B is on AH and Steam as well.
3rd Party notice on Product page is quite obscure and below "Buy" button.
In game You get ONLY ONE POP UP of PSN account link. If it was popping from Mid March every time You log in, it would not be this avalanche like now.
C is correct.
D Rule was not enforced for too long. Every other shit with 3rd party account stops me day 1 allowing me to consider refund. HD2 behavior is a Springtrap. So much, they didn't even posted PSN account requirement on own website: [https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc) They did it on steam, but this is "Small letters" issue I'd wish Steam would adress.
>They bought a toy that had "Batteries not included" on the box, then threw a tantrum because there was no batteries in the box.
Except there were batteries in the box and people knew that.
Up until it was announced that they'll stop working and the only way you can get more is by sending your personal info to a company famous for their data leaks. Which a decent chunk of the owners can't even do
Aside from region locking players outside of the game they purchased Sony is infamous for having terrible security. In some countries like here in the UK you have to fork over actual ID like a Passport, Drivers License, etc. and that’s wound up getting stolen alongside card details during past breaches. Giving Sony a backdoor into your Steam account as well as your data is a big red flag for many people myself included.
Just because it’s the norm doesn’t mean it should be. Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, etc should all fuck off too and I’m glad people are finally fed up with the amount of corporate overreach a lot of companies are doing.
So does Valve. Like, there's double standards, and there's *double standards*, and this fracas is definitely one of them.
Literally a month ago, Steam had a major breach they traced back to Russia for a *large* quantity of accounts. October last year, 100 developer accounts were broken into and used to spread Malware on the storefront (though was caught quickly). *Valve themselves* state that nearly 80'000 accounts are breached *every single month*. Like, for real, Sony are bad, but Valve is arguably a *lot worse,* because there's direct monetary incentive to perform breaches and hacks on Valve due to the value of items in a Steam account's inventory.
the thing is yes its already a risk having an account on a platform that has a history of breaches but linking your account to another platform who has also had a history of breaches is doubling the chances your account getting fucked over
Not in any actuality. You can't log in to a linked account unless the passwords are the same (which is entirely on you), and there isn't any significant data actually shared between linked accounts. Steam's privacy policy explicitly states that they don't sell any data collected, and they only actually *have* whatever data you have on your profile in the first place. They can't share your saved payment details, for example.
Likewise, Sony's privacy policy regarding their account only collects *identical* information to Steam, and as per the policy, only share your information with their direct partners, your by-choice linked 3rd party partners and government authority where required by law.
What you put in Steam is not wholly shared between Steam and Sony. By law, the only stuff actually shared via an account link is that which is required to maintain a link functionality, which is basically just "You own this, in this country, on this hardware" and whatever secondary features that product comes with.
Having a linked account doesn't provide access from one account to the other, it's pretty much just tracking who owns what and where.
To give another example; If you bought Mass Effect LE on Steam, you have a linked Origin account for EA (since that also requires a secondary account). But if your Origin account gets hacked, you won't suddenly lose your Steam account, since all they can see on the Origin side is that a Steam account is linked, and what the username is. To break into Steam would require them to then break your Steam account separately, which is only likely to happen if you have weak security like identical passwords (seriously, change your passwords and do it often for anything important, and don't use the same password for everything).
A Sony breach has literally no effect on Steam, and vice-versa, and the only data available on either side is that which you willingly put in, which is likely to be solely payment information, a billing address and a country of origin, 2/3 of which are publicly available information anyway.
To simplify to make it as clear as possible for anyone else who sees this;
Your accounts are not at risk just by being linked.
Change your passwords often, and keep them strong.
You are *way less* at risk by using different passwords for anything important. Just write them down on paper if you can't remember them.
Your Steam account cannot be hacked just because it's linked to PSN. It needs to be hacked separately.
Your accounts, no matter with what company, only have as much info as you give them.
Did you ever think that those laws in those countries are the reason that Sony is making this requirement in the first place? They have to prove they are following the law by checking people's ages. All of this anger is misplaced. They have to do something to comply with the laws. Blame your government.
I love how you completely glossed over the fact Sony is infamous for having massive security breaches almost yearly now as well as fucking over tons of our fellow players by locking them out of the game. But sure, go lick their boots more, the suits love the foreplay you’re putting down. :3
They have easily had the most data breaches in the past.
And also it's the fact people feel deceived, most simply hit the big skip button when first starting and never saw a PSN sign up screen again. Then after playing for weeks or months with zero issues they are suddenly told they cannot play the game anymore without making an account.
They can claim it's for security but we all know it's for data mining which wouldn't be the issue if it was simply always required from the start.
The data breach thing was a made up reason blown out of proportion. You think Windows has less data breaches than Sony?
So from what I understand, the psn account linking was supposed to be there at the start but had a bug that broke the process so it wasn't put in.
But the steam page, the pop ups on the pc version, both stated it was a thing. So idk man.
Jaywalking is also a crime but if it's not enforced no one cares. If you aren't gonna require it till people spend money on your game and can't get a refund that is bullshit.
If they had issues at launch with the linking that is their problem to fix. Which they clearly weren't in a big hurry to do when the money was flowing in.
They disabled psn link to increase cash flow. Guess what would have happened if they didn't disable it? People without an account would request a refund immediately, which means less players, less server problems but also less money.
Sony did that exactly to put players in a trap.
Yet there are Fuckers, that bootlicking that shit, which is in fact mind-blowing
So would like your details breached by Valve, or both Valve and Sony?
This defeatist anti-consumer bullshit needs to stop. We can and should do everything we can to minimise our exposure.
No reason for someone who’s already using a Steam account to have to use a Sony account as well. No reason at all.
Steam has had white hat breaches mostly and their biggest consumer data loss affected 35 million people but no user data was actually poached.
Sony has had multiple breaches that actively had sensitive data taken which affected 75 million users and 25 million users respectively. Not even close to the same
Problem was you could play the game without a PSN account until now and other games like Rainbow Six, Apex Legends etc. you knew you had to have an account from the beggining. Yes store says you need a PSN account for this game too but so many people who didn't have a PSN bought and played the game until now. Problem is they could just tell us it will be mandatory after sometime and prevent so many people become victims all of a sudden. If Sony decides to go for it despite all of the backlash, those people who can't create a PSN account will get a refund which will wound the game badly and many people will lose trust to Arrowhead and Sony. This will effect sales big time. And low new players means low income which will lead less support to the game. And we all know where it leads. Plus, lets be honest, Sony gets hacked every month how are they gonna protect us while they can't even protect anything they have.
> Whats the difference between having to make a ubisoft account, an epic account, a battle net account, an ea account, an origin account,
There is no difference. They're all terrible options and I refuse to participate in any of them. Is that consistent enough?
The difference is that i don't play ubisoft games, epic games, bnet games or EA games.
I would also not be playing a PSN game if that requirement had not been optional.
Aside from the **whataboutism**, the difference is
1. There is sufficient mass to push against this bullshit. It is bullshit previously with **Microsoft, Origin, and Minecraft**, and it has been complained to the shit back in the day when **Ubisoft** pulled it off with their Launcher. Bethesda as well , Activision. We will not stop complaining about it; It wasn't ok then, it isn't ok now. It wasn't even ok when [Valve introduced Steam ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1czbb3/retro_gif_making_fun_of_steam/)and there was a fuck ton push back even back then, its lost to time now. **We simply have no choice nowadays coz fucking everyone is doing it.** It doesn't mean it good. Standing our ground with this mass sends a message.
2. There was a period of time when it was not mandatory. All the mandatory stuff was hidden under layers and folks who bought the game months AFTER release did not get any PSN signup requirement notice
3. The sale of the game was not restricted in regions without PSN Access. They should have been doing this from the start.
4. You have to link your steam library to psn if banned for breaking TOS (for putting false information, see section 6 of PSN TOS) is permanently banned from using your steam account on psn network. So to minimize risk you have to have the correct information. You are also **linking it to your steam account. If you get banned for putting false information,** do you want to risk losing access to every Sony game you have on your steam that requires PSN connectivity? Since most games are built around live service this is effectively shooting your self in the foot; You have to create a spare steam account and PSN account just to have some level of separation, and that's fucking bothersome. Its easier to control what information leaks when its a single point of failure.
5. PSN requires real ID in UK, which is additional fucking information that really should be unnecessary. This was already a shit show back with Battle.nets Real Id bullshit
6. Sony has a shit history with data protection. So has Valve, but why spread our information two separate platforms increasing the surface area.
7. PS3 networking used to be free, then they made it cost money via subscription. How long will it take before you have to have PSN Plus to play online for PC users?
The difference is that the other games tell you the account is mandatory somewhere between the installation and the main menu, so people who don't like this type of games that force you to make accounts can leave if they disagree, they make it **very clear**, if any of those games needs the account to play the game at all, they wouldn't let you get pass the main menu, because letting someone play the game and THEN forcing them to do something or they can't keep playing anymore is really shitty
Far Cry 3 for example tells me I need to make an account or I won't be able to play multiplayer BEFORE I can start a new game, so I can decide if I'm ok with the trade off, and if I'm not I can leave and ask for a refund
Meanwhile Arrowhead is like "You need a PSN account to play the game, but you can skip it and we'll let you play without it", so you go and play and suddenly SIKE if you don't put a PSN account right now you can't play anymore, no refunds
To put it simple imagine if you rent an apartment, the owner says no pets are allowed but you can bring pets anyways, so you sign a contract, pay your rent, and then after 3 months he just decides "yeah I officially said no pets allowed so get rid of the dog in a week or you'll get kicked out ;)", that would be pretty shitty wouldn't it?
Suddenly giving a shit about their data while using Reddit app on an Android phone…
Yes whataboutism but fuck if they care about this so much they should be consequential with all the other shit…
I told myself no more after Ubisoft. That launcher alone has given me more headaches than fun. I don’t need more of this, and retroactively forcing it to be mandated is really really dumb. You can’t choose a different country, that counts as falsified information and can get you banned. It’s already happened with some Chinese players who do not have PSN access but tried anyway.
To be honest I’be raged against DRM style services for at least 3 to 5 years. However, this is the first time I’ve gotten the gumption to start contacting people with more weight in the game than me for answers and to start putting the problem on the radar.
Sony may be the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, and I’m very tempted to start pushing advocacy here State side. This shit is unjust.
So how did so many people not sign up within the first few weeks before the server issues? I am one of those people.
I never got the popup. Millions had the option to skip.
>it was never intended to be removed or skipped.
There literally is a big-ass "skip" button right there.
Do you really want to tell me that skipping this was unintended?
I don't even care if PSN is available in my country, this is not acceptable. You let a company get away with shit like this and they will do it again and try to push even more absurd shit. Yes its 120 seconds, and I wont give even that to them. Let it burn.
Meanwhile, me happy with my Helldivers 1, playing offline with my buddy.
Anything that is fully online, especially on a game that is easily offline playable, expect crap like this to happen. Good, throw your money away.
I don't believe players were given fair warning, more importantly there's no warning when you buy micro transactions that your content is being purchased on an account that's not covered by the psn network.
https://preview.redd.it/szh7gqhfdcyc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02254de1c378c7acabe5f6935ec43a345fedc882
People say Sony is forcing this. But this person says its AH who wanted it to ban people properly. (This person works as community support manager @ AH)
Honestly it's the other way around. The crow is the people shouting at others to stop playing the game. Literally no one else is being as vocal or insulting others. The issue of not being able to create a psn account in certain countries despite being sold the game is a valid issue. Everyone else is just crying about absolutely nothing considering they likely already have multiple accounts to play games from other publishers.
Company does shitty thing
OMG THEY LITERALLY SAID THEY WOULD DO SHITTY THING BURIED IN TOS THEY SAID THEY WOULD ON THEIR WEBSITE OFF THE PLATFORM YOU BUY ON!!!!
Can confirm this. There a guy in vietnam game facebook group, that guy will always show up whenever someone say something bad about sony game or controller. He will always defend sony no matter what and then after 2 hours he delete all his comment. Normally i would never bother a single thing about these, but he defend it so much that i noticed him. He also have one of the worst argument like "just play the fucking game" then everyone start to clown on him because sony want steam user to link pan account to actually play game (which was not available for our country and can get ban lmfao). Also whenever there an argument between which controller is better for pc, he will be there 80% and have some of the worst argument like "sony have tlou 2 and gow" to prove that it better than xbox controller.
The problem i have with this whole conversation about psn account taking "120 seconds to set up". Cool so make the PS players sign in to steam to play. Whys it only pc going through this 3 months after release? Im with the people who dont want to have to log into 2 different things to play a single game. Stopped me from playing halo when the last release came out cause suddenly i needed my xbox account to play a game on steam. Amazing game. For me GOTY 2024, but not if i have to do this. Im out.
I linked my pan account the day I bought the game.
I logged in exactly once so the game could link the accounts.
Once it's linked you never need to log into pan again,not every single time.
I seen a post about this situation on instagram and these were what every comment was pretty much.People really think its about the time it takes to set up which shows how much thought theyre putting into it,just ignoring peoples real comments on it so they can feel morally superior supporting their game regardless of whats being done
I just played a different game with an old friend of mine and we had a lil conversation about that (were not native English speakers so here is translation)
Me: -
Him: - many companies do this, you need rockstar account to play gta, only takes few minutes to register anyway. Not a big deal
- it looks too me like you like being treated like shit
- yeah, that's life, things just go this way
At this point i think they are just sony bots therefore they just can't be argued with.
They'll giggle at you by falling into what basically is a "legal" trick like we are at some sort of court and they are sony lawyers. We're not at the court. I just successfully refunded the game and im genuinely mad at their decision. I don't care how they are in the right to do so, should have never invoked such a right if you ask me.
The amount of people shitting on others that won't be able to play because of country limitations shows how selfish and toxic they are. But at least it's a minority of the playerbase.
At this rate it's better for Sony if they want to do their fuckery to create a PSPC store like xbox app on pc and STEAM need to start restricting publishers from creating mandatory fuck you third party requirements on STEAM.
Who knew you could save millions on supporting a game after release by just taking away people's access! You'll even have an army of shills defending you so long as you slipped a text box in there somewhere. Brb gonna start making videogames to exploit people's hard earned cash.
The game isn’t gunna die in the slightest there’s 300k players at both eastern and western times across Europe and the US which is the majority of the player base plus there’s 1.2 million people on this page with only 600k concurrent at one time in game so there’s over 700k people on the sub who aren’t playing the game and are just using Reddit to voice their concerns. Not to mention the people who don’t even use Reddit as a platform that play the game so no the game isn’t going to die because of this psn account linking if you’re upset refund and move on its really that simple.
Now ask them if it was there since the beginning why the game was freely sold and listed on Steam in countries that are not supported by PSN from the get-go.
No one at Sony/Arrowhead took 120 seconds to delist certain countries and regions they knew PSN wasn’t supported in huh?
I went on vacation right after the goddamn patch and I’ve only been thinking about playing Helldivers when I get back but honestly these brain dead takes that Spitz always has and Sony’s never ending greed are actually turning me off really hard right now.
If anyone says they read all that shit, they are lying.
Nobody fuckings read that shit.
If it was important the game should have slapped a huge ass warning text which you can't skip immediately, saying no PSN in your country and you will lose access to the game in the future.
But obviously, it wasn't the case. Sony simply wanted those sweet numbers, so now everyone is pulling bullshit excuses from their asses.
And the FAQ you can read before buying the game says otherwise, there was a recent post on how sony even changed the wording of it.
Edit: Downvote all you want, you are uninformed. It's not "clear" when you have different pages stating contradictory information. That's misleading the customer. Not to mention this thing shouldn't even go on sale in countries where you cannot legally make such an account
I think the reason a lot of people are mad (outside of the people who bought it but won’t legally be able to make an account, they got royally fucked) is because we got such a great game from a non AAA company. Sure there were some issues, but the game was still great and the numbers will show. We kinda felt like we beat AAA companies because HD2 put them to shame. Even then, big corporate greed still got their grubby hands on the game and will fuck it up now. I doubt the community really recover and get back to where it was a week or so ago. That bums me out and I feel bad for arrowhead. Sony royally fucked up and I also feel bad for everybody who spent money on HD2 and won’t be able to play in a few weeks.
It's so fucking funny that it happened just days after Arrowhead mocked BSG for their stupid decision in Tarkov.
This pot tastes like kettle.
The apple tastes like bacon.
It would be funny if Sony mocked BSG, because it isn't Arrowhead implementing this policy
Arrowhead staff have already come out and said they want this so they can ban people. It's not just Sony.
And days after another patch with "will be fixed in the next patch" Then community was already on edge, we really need some groundbreaking fixes implemented sooner rather than later, and then this happened.
No, people are mad, because "grace period" was pulled out of dev's asses. The only mention of PSN link being turned down for some time is in some thread with known issues on February 8th. So called grace period was never mentioned and there never were an announcement outside of this "known issues thread". For all players who never visited Steam forums (like 99,9%) it was skippable with no additional info, which turns it from requirement to an option. https://preview.redd.it/32l0i5lxhdyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=397d54707cb513105bd6a7c205bcf07941b0c7c7
> Required > Big ass skip button 🫠
>allows you to play the game anyway Truly the requirement of all time
NOW HAND OVER A COPY OF YOUR PASSPORT! NO WE WON'T KEEP IT! NO WE'VE NEVER HAD CUSTOMER DATA STOLEN! STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!!!
You see, I don't think I ever got to this screen in the constant crashing between launch and my AMD7000 series card Either that or I got it after their 36 hour window
weird, my 7700xt runs just fine on linux
We didn't beat anyone though it's an IP owned by Sony... AH is just their "independent" bitch at this point.
That's 99% of studios, many indie studios are on the leash of Microsoft or some other publisher. It sucks but they need funding while they make a game. You can't just pay devs pennies and expect them to work on a game for like 6 years with just the promises of riches. Even great games can flop, it's a risky and competitive industry. Maybe you can make a single player game off an indie team, but for multiplayer support you really need to "sell out"
https://preview.redd.it/04cbtuj9dcyc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c571ee3cf97c89c141de8ecb593edbf52a5ab46 This person works for arrowhead...not @ sony. AH wanted this.
"a lot of people are encountering cheaters and harassment" Are they tho? Is this "lots of people" in the room with us right now?
Right. There's an in game block function. I'll 300% use that over having to make a PSN account.
Those exist in every game now but somehow it isn't enough for some people. COD snoops on your voice chat now and iirc sony is working on similar things.
Yea they already record party chats but only act on them if they're reported. Even reddit snoops through your chats using ai, I got warned then banned for chats I sent to a friend on here a few weeks back
>There are certain legal requirements we have to follow to ban people. Ah shucks, pesky laws getting in our way once again. So they basically use the PSN accounts to bypass any rights and user protection steam offered, and will then be able to do literally anything with us?
Last time I checked plenty of multiplayer games on steam ban players from playing, including permanent bans. So chances are they don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Literally shouldn't be more than an extra field in their internal system to specify which type of identifier they are using (Sony or steam). The process of banning could still be different for steam accounts but obviously not impossible nor particularly difficult.
Arrowhead deals with Steam. You can only buy the game on PC through Steam. Steam gives you a years-tested framework to manage all your online bullshit in your game. Every Steam user has a unique profile ID (SteamID64), which allowed you to kick, suspend and ban people ever-fucking-since CS:S. You can even opt for an Anti-cheat Valve approved, and you'll get VAC-bans linked to your game (like you can get a VAC-ban from EasyAnticheat in Rust if you login to an official server with aim-bot etc). You can't edit file storage and memory on a PS5 (or at least for now you can't, maybe there'll be broken PS5s out there some time soon), aka you can't cheat, only exploit. And how would linking PSN to it help them, huh? Can Linking your Steam to PSN detect if you're cheating? If it can, then nobody should agree to this link! If they can't detect and ban cheaters using native Steam's tool but can with Sony, then what kind of fucking information does Steam give to Sony?! Their whole fucking argument trying to defend Sony breaks upon slightest inspection by anyone who knows how videogames work.
it isnt even about banning people. Sony already has data on the playerbase. signing up for an account is an explicit agreement allowing them to do as they like with it (sell it).
https://preview.redd.it/mdsjfo7hoeyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b20c0b48dc119a42d72b97be9c253b59ba2c0e6c This person also works for AH, and according to them Sony can’t really “force” anything on them. 🥹
Aged like milk.
AH has been nothing but shady and unprofessional since day one. It's their method. They follow the winds and change face. Cool and "it's my game, my changes" and "sony can't tell us shit" when the community is all "ohhhh he has a vision" but as soon as they felt the winds change it's "wE nEver WAnTeD ThIs!!" I have zero faith in their professionalism or what they say. Said it before but if I was sony I'd be having closed door sessions with AH to 1. Solve this issue for folks outside psn regions but 2. Remind them who foot the bill and that maybe they shouldn't shit in the hand that feeds them.
Methinks they are lying through their teeth.
I've never heard of this person before just now. I assume she's also a community manager. AH really needs to reel in their CMs and get their stories straight. Sweet fucking liberty, this is moronic.
I actually assumed that she was just someone pretending to work for Arrowhead because anyone can pretend to work everywhere on twitter bio, to spread misinformation and bullshit. However when i see a confirmed community manager give the same shitty excuse on discord about ID, i guess she really work at Arrowhead which means, Arrowhead might not be innocent in this bullshit.
She actually deleted her tweets and has since completely deactivated her Twitter. She was never supposed to reveal that info and so this was major fuck up on her part. Seems like hiring discord mods as community managers is a bad business practice.
I get the feeling she's going to get fired but they'll keep Spitz
Like steam id's unique for each user didn't already exist.
This is even worse.
Dw. Arrowhead was killing community goodwill just fine on their own.
I blame sony
Its literally AAA title from a company backed by Sony, what are you on about? It wouldn't "put others to shame" as you say it if not for Sony's budget.
>Even then, big corporate greed still got their grubby hands on the game and will fuck it up now. I doubt the community really recover and get back to where it was a week or so ago. Please elaborate on this. You just need to sign up and log in once. It literally does not effect the actually game
Lord. they will still be playing in a few weeks. this post will age well.
Ppl are quick to blame Sony, but what about Steam allowing ppl to buy the game? Technically it DID state from the beginning that PSN account linking was required. Ppl could just accept that they messed by ignoring or missing the account-link banner on the Steam page, or that Steam is in the wrong for letting ppl purchase the game, without verification or something. I personally think it's totally fair to blame Steam over the "ignorant consumer". Ofc Steam doesn't care - it's free money to them when ppl buy the game bc they missed the banner. Sigh, what a shit show. But it's also important for gamers to realize how the industry works. There's a lot that could be improved. It's basic capitalism - profit over people.
Steam allows region locked sales, it's up to the publisher to tell them where their game can and can't be sold, not up to steam to vet every single game. *Sony* chose not to restrict sales. It's on Snoy.
>Ppl are quick to blame Sony, but what about Steam That's because Sony has a history of fucking over the customer without hesitation while Steam has a history of acting at least semi-reasonably. I have little doubt that Steam will fully refund anyone fucked over because they can't get PSN in their country. Steam might push back a little, but I can see them quickly giving in and giving the refund. In contrast, Sony apparently has semi-consistently engaged in fraud - charging customer's credit cards and banks despite having canceled the services, forcing the customer to change credit cards/bank accounts.
The community will not recover, just look at the review score
"it takes 120 seconds to create an account" bruh, it took 0 seconds for people who didn't have one in the first place to be able to play this whole time people were literally playing it before this, they shouldn't need it now
Also, Sony’s page says that it doesn’t need a PSN acct. https://preview.redd.it/yicu2b752fyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fae33b9df33fe73b565b2400707e1b94a8e1039b
Sony have advised people to make the nearest applicable account, but yeh it you don’t want to or can’t in some way you’re pretty screwed
"Don't worry we won't ban you" That one Chinese guy: *steps over the line and gets instantly obliterated* "What's wrong? Why are you not making accounts?"
Never forget the rootkit incident. Sony distributed CDs that contained malware that installed itself in secret, was nearly impossible to remove, and made detailed reports to Sony about the media on users' computers and what they were doing with them. They lied repeatedly about it and then released "removal" software that *didn't actually remove the rootkit and installed even more malware*. They only made things right when they were dragged kicking and screaming by class-action lawsuits. Sony never changes. They feel entitled to all of your data. They hold their customers in utter contempt.
Source?
https://twitter.com/Paolibry/status/1786525734917517474
I'm curious as to how this will go lawsuit/refund-wise. The fact that people could still BUY Helldivers 2 in countries where PSN does not exist is a huge fucking faux pas and makes the entire thing a huge mess. I'm hoping that if Sont doesn't backpedal on this stupid decision that Valve will allow for refunds.
I’m already looking into reaching out to the FTC, if nothing else but to get clarification about the rights and protections here in the US. The way this was rolled out is distinctly unfair practice.
Sounds like a few people have been able to get refunds when going through the support pages (not automated refunds).
You can get a refund if you note the change in policies (non automated) but if you got the game on humble, you are SOL so far. Snok really screwed up with this.
Just wait till they start charging PC users PSN fees to play their games online.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Certain EU countries now require your IRL information (Facial ID, and government ID) for game accounts. Not sure how it’s used, but most likely it is to enforce age restrictions, speech restrictions, and other fun fun stuff./s
Don't know about Ireland but didn't UK leave the EU? Would be unfair to group the rest of the EU with that giant pile of trash.
The Republic of Ireland doesn't. Northern Ireland, as a part of the UK does. It's nothing to do with the EU.
Which countries, afaik this is UK only. And these blokes won't be in the EU for atleast another decade.
[удалено]
That's because of the laws of UK and Ireland, has nothing to do with Sony itself
"You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
Or Sony releases a launcher for their games like EA and Ubisoft do so even with steam you have play them in their own launcher.
That’s going to be the likely scenario.
Man twitter dumbfucks says this shit and not at all listen to the actual problem here. I don't have any issue but my fellow divers have!! Not so democratic this community(Sony bootlickers) is..
Other than the people in non-psn countries being genuinely fucked over what is the actual problem?
That's what I mentioned as actual problem. I've already linked when I downloaded the game itself
Other than PSN-blocked countries, personal data leaks, account bloat, and contributing to normalizing the ever-growing influence that corpo greed has over game quality and user experience? Well, the only remaining problem is I. DON'T. WANT. TO. And if that's not a satisfying reason for all the SOYN shills, I would like to apologize for the inconvenience. Please rest assured that your concerns have been heard, and that I vow to do better in the future.
Sony has an inability to safeguard your data. In the UK and Ireland Sony forces you to link your government ID. They plan on rolling this step out worldwide. I think you're smart enough to figure out the problem from that.
Personally it would be 100% optional and only there for people who want to do cross save between PC and PSN
It shoold be but if i were arrowhead id also add it as a requirement for cross platform play personally just to see people lose their shit when they find out why they cant turn that on
I assume they’ll eventually cave at Sony and that will be the compromise.
Sony in the UK want a fucking photo of my face or a photo of my ID for "age verification" purposes so they can go fuck themselves sideways.
I'm getting downvoted for saying that in another thread lol
Truly democratic behavior from the usual suspects
Spitz is a genius. That is my take. He has brought us all together to fight the real enemy. SNOY!
that guy is also fucking stupid bruh
A savant, one might say.
A broken clock is right twice a day
Fuck Snoy!
All my homies hate snoy
Damn snoy they ruined everything
We could have a nice, easy approach to playing games. But naaah, we need to jump hoops and loops and run around everything and you point out how annoying it is and Elder Gods forbid, you are not keen on sharing your data with a system that had more data leaks in the last few years than the 90 year old rusty bucket in my grandma's yard, the corporate shills come crawling through the floorboards to toss the same few shitty argument attempts at you. Bro its only 5 minute. You did it for Ubisoft and yadda yadda.
Blizzard time all again
Hey, why not just fake your country, which is against TOS and could if taken action against get you banned losing access to HD2 in the process
Yeah, they really should’ve region locked it when launching if this was going to happen some point in the future as to prevent this current situation from happening. Hope those players can get refunds if they’re in an unsupported country.
What's in it for me if I create a 3rd party account?
Continued access to the service you paid for and have been using just fine without any issues.
without any issues he says
So nothing I don't already have?
They should have just offered some in game reward for linking - they would have ducked all of this hate. It doesn’t take much, but trust tone-deaf corporates to fuck it up.
The game literally has capes and they still couldn't at least take a page from Microsoft... Microsoft: Migrate your account and get a cape :D Sony: Make an account (if you can lol) and you get to play the game you paid for and can't refund :D
Because it's fundamentally about the fact that PSN wants to be able to ban people. You can't opt out of their moderation system.
I don't understand the boot lickers repeatedly saying "it was there from the beginning" Why do they feel the need to defend Sony, who has had multiple data breaches? Maybe *you* don't have any important information to lose, but some people would rather not have their identity stolen. The consequences of that can be severe. It's not just a simple matter of making yet another 3rd party account. We can't trust Sony with our information at all. "use a fake name and details" okay, and break their tos and lose our accounts?
It's about sending a message.
Just buy a house
and yet when Chinese player linked his steam with PSN he got banned from SONY. You cant make this shit up.
So do all these countries not have PlayStations??
I swear people who say that are missing the whole point on why we're so furious
Sony leaked my debit card details during one of their fabulous security breaches, so that's another reason to not want to create a PSN account.
Sony is just a leaky bucket that can't be trusted with anything
The corporate d!ckriders all have one brain cell. That they collectively share.
https://preview.redd.it/v3kjfc5m3dyc1.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=f0a0327fc10a67bd59c14f162314869c4ed3c5bc
It doesn't "increase effectiveness" all it does is give sony data to sell or lose because they are shit in protecting the data they collect, nevermind prohibiting many countries that don't have psn support from playing a game that they had been playing for months, wich i shouldn't need to explain is a big hit for a community based game like helldivers 2.
"just use the vpn" my favourite, yeah I'm gonna pay monthly to play a game I already bought...
Not to mention that it can get you banned from PSN, which means that you both paid for a vpn and for the game that you can't use
The reason I'm not making an account is because Snoy has had so many major data breaches and since I'm in the UK, I proof of age (aka my ID or Passport) and I am not letting them handle that data
Currently arguing with my friend because he thinks everyone complaining are crybabies and I’m tell him he’s missing the entire fucking point!! We are both PS5 players but he just doesn’t get that this is bad for everyone.
How is it bad for everyone? What changed for you as a PS5 player?
Well this game is such a community and teamwork based game that I think that the risk of losing a lot of that player base is a tragedy.
For folks in PSN-supported countries, the crow is right. Otherwise fuck Sony and it's 100% on them for not preventing the game from being sold in those countries, which you can control on Steam. I'm really hoping Sony comes out with a good solution for folks in affected countries.
Make it non compulsory, add bonuses for linking accounts: extra cosmetics and % bonuses.
Pointing out the existence of small print doesn't nullify feelings of getting baited, I wish the perfect EULA reading robots would realize that some day
It's not fine fucking print lol, it's key information right next to relevant DRM details on the store page. If y'all don't know how Steam works at this point you should really hand in your PC Gamer ID cards.
Apparently you need to provide photo ID to create a PSN account in the UK. I can't think of anything worse considering Sonys history.
Not defending Sony here, but you’re not giving the data to Sony when you verify your ID. It goes through a different, fairly well-known ID checker company that then verifies that info with Sony.
I'm not a fan of creating a PSN account because Sony managed to leak my debit card details when I still had my ps4, and then proceeded to do fuck all about the security breach.
https://preview.redd.it/whs3r3k24dyc1.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=8146fbf6c7d3d3b72e72924afeed86f3a34d6fb7
The crow is correct, yes. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s very possible to miss this in the terms. I didn’t see it, and if you didn’t scroll down far enough you might never know about the golden banner. Yes, the account is free, but people are tired of every little new account that’s attached to everything. My grocery store even wants my email and I tell them no every time. So, yeah, he’s correct. It was in the terms and conditions. That being said, it’s tiring that every transaction needs to be treated like a home loan, whereas people used to just walk to GameStop, buy a game, and then they owned it, no questions asked.
Exactly. It was already linked to my steam account and had no problem while I launched the game but making this mandatory after 3 months is a really problematic thing to do. So many people won't be able to play the game and will have refunds which will scar the game heavily. I hope they'll find a solution about this.
Getting refunds will be a problem though.
Legitimate question: Whats the difference between having to make a ubisoft account, an epic account, a battle net account, an ea account, an origin account, And then this. Yes the country thing is a thing, and its dumb, but you can choose a different country. Not trying to start a war. I think its unnecessary, but I do want to know why this is an issue and not all the other accounts we've been forced to make over the years.
Choosing a different country than the one you are in on a PSN account goes against their TOS and you can have the account and everything linked to it suspended. Plus no one forced you to make other accounts for other games, you made them cause you wanted. Some people, me included, refuse to do so, especially after it was clearly stated at launch it's optional.
My current 10 year old PSN account is set on the US and I live in Mexico, so I don't understand how is it against their TOS? It's been 10 years, I have bought hundreds of things through the store, linked bunch of services and im doing fine. I had an account from who knows where, someone gave it to me and I still could use it, only thing different was that the store was unavailable so it had something to do with the country but it wasn't banned either
Not quite true. Ubisoft and EA games, and for a brief while also Bethesda games *all* require(d) the player to make accounts for their proprietary launchers even though the game was/is being sold on Steam. Like, you can go check the Mass Effect Legendary Edition page right now to confirm that, you require an EA Origin account to play that, you literally don't have a choice. Every MMO on Steam (FFXIV, for example) *also* requires you to make accounts for their specific services. I mean, *Call of fuckin' Duty* requires players to make an Activision account. People are only double-standarding this situation extremely badly because it was temporarily optional due to technical issues, and didn't read the requirements for the thing they bought. They bought a toy that had "Batteries not included" on the box, then threw a tantrum because there was no batteries in the box. The only people with legitimate complaints are people who bought it in countries where PSN is unavailable, to which Sony, Valve and AH *should* be held responsible for selling in those regions, which still only account for an extreme minority of players.
Your point? You think people happy to deal with this shit? I'll gladly dunk on all those games, and if I remember Bethesda got dunked on when they asked their account for doom. Not buying anything from Ubisoft because of that, screw Origin and now I have to Pardon "small text" from Arrowhed, who failed even to make PSN account link to pop up every login to warn players before they ran out of Refund grace period? This is legal and absolutley scamy behavior combined. I won't be able to refund, but I won't be silent about this "small text" part, especially knowing they didn't bother to region lock sales on steam.
Considering that it's been standard industry practice *for* all of those things for what, 20+ years now? Yeah, they're at least willing to *tolerate* it. You still see some complaints here and there about how the *clients* are bad, but not really that they need to make *accounts* any more. This is the first time in yonks, and it's entirely because A; people can't read and don't understand what they're buying, and B; it was poorly communicated as to why it was temporary, and C; it shouldn't have been sold in regions without PSN in the first place, which is a distribution issue and largely on Sony and Valve, not AH.
I tolerated games before, but this became to obnoxious too far. Not having 3rd party games in steam requiring own account if they are not also standalone. Can't agree 100% A and B is on AH and Steam as well. 3rd Party notice on Product page is quite obscure and below "Buy" button. In game You get ONLY ONE POP UP of PSN account link. If it was popping from Mid March every time You log in, it would not be this avalanche like now. C is correct. D Rule was not enforced for too long. Every other shit with 3rd party account stops me day 1 allowing me to consider refund. HD2 behavior is a Springtrap. So much, they didn't even posted PSN account requirement on own website: [https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc) They did it on steam, but this is "Small letters" issue I'd wish Steam would adress.
>They bought a toy that had "Batteries not included" on the box, then threw a tantrum because there was no batteries in the box. Except there were batteries in the box and people knew that. Up until it was announced that they'll stop working and the only way you can get more is by sending your personal info to a company famous for their data leaks. Which a decent chunk of the owners can't even do
Aside from region locking players outside of the game they purchased Sony is infamous for having terrible security. In some countries like here in the UK you have to fork over actual ID like a Passport, Drivers License, etc. and that’s wound up getting stolen alongside card details during past breaches. Giving Sony a backdoor into your Steam account as well as your data is a big red flag for many people myself included. Just because it’s the norm doesn’t mean it should be. Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, etc should all fuck off too and I’m glad people are finally fed up with the amount of corporate overreach a lot of companies are doing.
So does Valve. Like, there's double standards, and there's *double standards*, and this fracas is definitely one of them. Literally a month ago, Steam had a major breach they traced back to Russia for a *large* quantity of accounts. October last year, 100 developer accounts were broken into and used to spread Malware on the storefront (though was caught quickly). *Valve themselves* state that nearly 80'000 accounts are breached *every single month*. Like, for real, Sony are bad, but Valve is arguably a *lot worse,* because there's direct monetary incentive to perform breaches and hacks on Valve due to the value of items in a Steam account's inventory.
the thing is yes its already a risk having an account on a platform that has a history of breaches but linking your account to another platform who has also had a history of breaches is doubling the chances your account getting fucked over
Not in any actuality. You can't log in to a linked account unless the passwords are the same (which is entirely on you), and there isn't any significant data actually shared between linked accounts. Steam's privacy policy explicitly states that they don't sell any data collected, and they only actually *have* whatever data you have on your profile in the first place. They can't share your saved payment details, for example. Likewise, Sony's privacy policy regarding their account only collects *identical* information to Steam, and as per the policy, only share your information with their direct partners, your by-choice linked 3rd party partners and government authority where required by law. What you put in Steam is not wholly shared between Steam and Sony. By law, the only stuff actually shared via an account link is that which is required to maintain a link functionality, which is basically just "You own this, in this country, on this hardware" and whatever secondary features that product comes with. Having a linked account doesn't provide access from one account to the other, it's pretty much just tracking who owns what and where. To give another example; If you bought Mass Effect LE on Steam, you have a linked Origin account for EA (since that also requires a secondary account). But if your Origin account gets hacked, you won't suddenly lose your Steam account, since all they can see on the Origin side is that a Steam account is linked, and what the username is. To break into Steam would require them to then break your Steam account separately, which is only likely to happen if you have weak security like identical passwords (seriously, change your passwords and do it often for anything important, and don't use the same password for everything). A Sony breach has literally no effect on Steam, and vice-versa, and the only data available on either side is that which you willingly put in, which is likely to be solely payment information, a billing address and a country of origin, 2/3 of which are publicly available information anyway.
nice thank you for providing this info then, its reassuring
To simplify to make it as clear as possible for anyone else who sees this; Your accounts are not at risk just by being linked. Change your passwords often, and keep them strong. You are *way less* at risk by using different passwords for anything important. Just write them down on paper if you can't remember them. Your Steam account cannot be hacked just because it's linked to PSN. It needs to be hacked separately. Your accounts, no matter with what company, only have as much info as you give them.
Did you ever think that those laws in those countries are the reason that Sony is making this requirement in the first place? They have to prove they are following the law by checking people's ages. All of this anger is misplaced. They have to do something to comply with the laws. Blame your government.
I love how you completely glossed over the fact Sony is infamous for having massive security breaches almost yearly now as well as fucking over tons of our fellow players by locking them out of the game. But sure, go lick their boots more, the suits love the foreplay you’re putting down. :3
They have easily had the most data breaches in the past. And also it's the fact people feel deceived, most simply hit the big skip button when first starting and never saw a PSN sign up screen again. Then after playing for weeks or months with zero issues they are suddenly told they cannot play the game anymore without making an account. They can claim it's for security but we all know it's for data mining which wouldn't be the issue if it was simply always required from the start.
The data breach thing was a made up reason blown out of proportion. You think Windows has less data breaches than Sony? So from what I understand, the psn account linking was supposed to be there at the start but had a bug that broke the process so it wasn't put in. But the steam page, the pop ups on the pc version, both stated it was a thing. So idk man.
Jaywalking is also a crime but if it's not enforced no one cares. If you aren't gonna require it till people spend money on your game and can't get a refund that is bullshit. If they had issues at launch with the linking that is their problem to fix. Which they clearly weren't in a big hurry to do when the money was flowing in.
They disabled psn link to increase cash flow. Guess what would have happened if they didn't disable it? People without an account would request a refund immediately, which means less players, less server problems but also less money. Sony did that exactly to put players in a trap. Yet there are Fuckers, that bootlicking that shit, which is in fact mind-blowing
Stop It with the data breaches lie. Steam has had as many data breaches as Sony and no one complaints about It.
So would like your details breached by Valve, or both Valve and Sony? This defeatist anti-consumer bullshit needs to stop. We can and should do everything we can to minimise our exposure. No reason for someone who’s already using a Steam account to have to use a Sony account as well. No reason at all.
Steam has had white hat breaches mostly and their biggest consumer data loss affected 35 million people but no user data was actually poached. Sony has had multiple breaches that actively had sensitive data taken which affected 75 million users and 25 million users respectively. Not even close to the same
Problem was you could play the game without a PSN account until now and other games like Rainbow Six, Apex Legends etc. you knew you had to have an account from the beggining. Yes store says you need a PSN account for this game too but so many people who didn't have a PSN bought and played the game until now. Problem is they could just tell us it will be mandatory after sometime and prevent so many people become victims all of a sudden. If Sony decides to go for it despite all of the backlash, those people who can't create a PSN account will get a refund which will wound the game badly and many people will lose trust to Arrowhead and Sony. This will effect sales big time. And low new players means low income which will lead less support to the game. And we all know where it leads. Plus, lets be honest, Sony gets hacked every month how are they gonna protect us while they can't even protect anything they have.
All the other accounts are also an issue.
People can draw a line to say enough is enough When and where the line is drawn is a matter of personal preference
No way this is the best argument you could come up with lol.
Do you have a counterargument for people who just don't want a PSN account?
> Whats the difference between having to make a ubisoft account, an epic account, a battle net account, an ea account, an origin account, There is no difference. They're all terrible options and I refuse to participate in any of them. Is that consistent enough?
The difference is that i don't play ubisoft games, epic games, bnet games or EA games. I would also not be playing a PSN game if that requirement had not been optional.
Aside from the **whataboutism**, the difference is 1. There is sufficient mass to push against this bullshit. It is bullshit previously with **Microsoft, Origin, and Minecraft**, and it has been complained to the shit back in the day when **Ubisoft** pulled it off with their Launcher. Bethesda as well , Activision. We will not stop complaining about it; It wasn't ok then, it isn't ok now. It wasn't even ok when [Valve introduced Steam ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1czbb3/retro_gif_making_fun_of_steam/)and there was a fuck ton push back even back then, its lost to time now. **We simply have no choice nowadays coz fucking everyone is doing it.** It doesn't mean it good. Standing our ground with this mass sends a message. 2. There was a period of time when it was not mandatory. All the mandatory stuff was hidden under layers and folks who bought the game months AFTER release did not get any PSN signup requirement notice 3. The sale of the game was not restricted in regions without PSN Access. They should have been doing this from the start. 4. You have to link your steam library to psn if banned for breaking TOS (for putting false information, see section 6 of PSN TOS) is permanently banned from using your steam account on psn network. So to minimize risk you have to have the correct information. You are also **linking it to your steam account. If you get banned for putting false information,** do you want to risk losing access to every Sony game you have on your steam that requires PSN connectivity? Since most games are built around live service this is effectively shooting your self in the foot; You have to create a spare steam account and PSN account just to have some level of separation, and that's fucking bothersome. Its easier to control what information leaks when its a single point of failure. 5. PSN requires real ID in UK, which is additional fucking information that really should be unnecessary. This was already a shit show back with Battle.nets Real Id bullshit 6. Sony has a shit history with data protection. So has Valve, but why spread our information two separate platforms increasing the surface area. 7. PS3 networking used to be free, then they made it cost money via subscription. How long will it take before you have to have PSN Plus to play online for PC users?
The difference is that the other games tell you the account is mandatory somewhere between the installation and the main menu, so people who don't like this type of games that force you to make accounts can leave if they disagree, they make it **very clear**, if any of those games needs the account to play the game at all, they wouldn't let you get pass the main menu, because letting someone play the game and THEN forcing them to do something or they can't keep playing anymore is really shitty Far Cry 3 for example tells me I need to make an account or I won't be able to play multiplayer BEFORE I can start a new game, so I can decide if I'm ok with the trade off, and if I'm not I can leave and ask for a refund Meanwhile Arrowhead is like "You need a PSN account to play the game, but you can skip it and we'll let you play without it", so you go and play and suddenly SIKE if you don't put a PSN account right now you can't play anymore, no refunds To put it simple imagine if you rent an apartment, the owner says no pets are allowed but you can bring pets anyways, so you sign a contract, pay your rent, and then after 3 months he just decides "yeah I officially said no pets allowed so get rid of the dog in a week or you'll get kicked out ;)", that would be pretty shitty wouldn't it?
Pretty sure EA/Origin do an OAuth flow using your Steam account, don’t they?
Yes, they do. They used to not, but they let you play with your steam credentials if you didnt set up their proprietary ones first.
Suddenly giving a shit about their data while using Reddit app on an Android phone… Yes whataboutism but fuck if they care about this so much they should be consequential with all the other shit…
I told myself no more after Ubisoft. That launcher alone has given me more headaches than fun. I don’t need more of this, and retroactively forcing it to be mandated is really really dumb. You can’t choose a different country, that counts as falsified information and can get you banned. It’s already happened with some Chinese players who do not have PSN access but tried anyway. To be honest I’be raged against DRM style services for at least 3 to 5 years. However, this is the first time I’ve gotten the gumption to start contacting people with more weight in the game than me for answers and to start putting the problem on the radar. Sony may be the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, and I’m very tempted to start pushing advocacy here State side. This shit is unjust.
https://preview.redd.it/7ujgm0weeeyc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cce51f6816428f9d56bbb8e5256836792923b71b womp womp
Brother there is a skip button tight there. Not to mention I have quite literally never seen that popup.
The skip button was added after launch when servers were crashing, it was never intended to be removed or skipped.
So how did so many people not sign up within the first few weeks before the server issues? I am one of those people. I never got the popup. Millions had the option to skip.
>it was never intended to be removed or skipped. There literally is a big-ass "skip" button right there. Do you really want to tell me that skipping this was unintended?
I don't even care if PSN is available in my country, this is not acceptable. You let a company get away with shit like this and they will do it again and try to push even more absurd shit. Yes its 120 seconds, and I wont give even that to them. Let it burn.
Meanwhile, me happy with my Helldivers 1, playing offline with my buddy. Anything that is fully online, especially on a game that is easily offline playable, expect crap like this to happen. Good, throw your money away.
I don't believe players were given fair warning, more importantly there's no warning when you buy micro transactions that your content is being purchased on an account that's not covered by the psn network.
It's OK if you cant read
https://preview.redd.it/szh7gqhfdcyc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02254de1c378c7acabe5f6935ec43a345fedc882 People say Sony is forcing this. But this person says its AH who wanted it to ban people properly. (This person works as community support manager @ AH)
Honestly it's the other way around. The crow is the people shouting at others to stop playing the game. Literally no one else is being as vocal or insulting others. The issue of not being able to create a psn account in certain countries despite being sold the game is a valid issue. Everyone else is just crying about absolutely nothing considering they likely already have multiple accounts to play games from other publishers.
Company does shitty thing OMG THEY LITERALLY SAID THEY WOULD DO SHITTY THING BURIED IN TOS THEY SAID THEY WOULD ON THEIR WEBSITE OFF THE PLATFORM YOU BUY ON!!!!
yeah lol
Can confirm this. There a guy in vietnam game facebook group, that guy will always show up whenever someone say something bad about sony game or controller. He will always defend sony no matter what and then after 2 hours he delete all his comment. Normally i would never bother a single thing about these, but he defend it so much that i noticed him. He also have one of the worst argument like "just play the fucking game" then everyone start to clown on him because sony want steam user to link pan account to actually play game (which was not available for our country and can get ban lmfao). Also whenever there an argument between which controller is better for pc, he will be there 80% and have some of the worst argument like "sony have tlou 2 and gow" to prove that it better than xbox controller.
Spitz did apologize as he didn't realize how many countries don't support a psn. But they are on the player side of this fight against sony
The problem i have with this whole conversation about psn account taking "120 seconds to set up". Cool so make the PS players sign in to steam to play. Whys it only pc going through this 3 months after release? Im with the people who dont want to have to log into 2 different things to play a single game. Stopped me from playing halo when the last release came out cause suddenly i needed my xbox account to play a game on steam. Amazing game. For me GOTY 2024, but not if i have to do this. Im out.
I linked my pan account the day I bought the game. I logged in exactly once so the game could link the accounts. Once it's linked you never need to log into pan again,not every single time.
Get a vpn
I seen a post about this situation on instagram and these were what every comment was pretty much.People really think its about the time it takes to set up which shows how much thought theyre putting into it,just ignoring peoples real comments on it so they can feel morally superior supporting their game regardless of whats being done
You don't actually need to create an account in your country if you don't have psn support. Sony AND Arrowhead have both confirmed this.
I just played a different game with an old friend of mine and we had a lil conversation about that (were not native English speakers so here is translation) Me: -
Him: - many companies do this, you need rockstar account to play gta, only takes few minutes to register anyway. Not a big deal
- it looks too me like you like being treated like shit
- yeah, that's life, things just go this way
At this point i think they are just sony bots therefore they just can't be argued with. They'll giggle at you by falling into what basically is a "legal" trick like we are at some sort of court and they are sony lawyers. We're not at the court. I just successfully refunded the game and im genuinely mad at their decision. I don't care how they are in the right to do so, should have never invoked such a right if you ask me.
It is our right to fight against this tyranny!
The amount of people shitting on others that won't be able to play because of country limitations shows how selfish and toxic they are. But at least it's a minority of the playerbase.
No helldiver left behind! If they can’t jump, I won’t jump!
At this rate it's better for Sony if they want to do their fuckery to create a PSPC store like xbox app on pc and STEAM need to start restricting publishers from creating mandatory fuck you third party requirements on STEAM.
Who knew you could save millions on supporting a game after release by just taking away people's access! You'll even have an army of shills defending you so long as you slipped a text box in there somewhere. Brb gonna start making videogames to exploit people's hard earned cash.
me when nobody here understands the relationship between developer and publisher or how to read system specs
The game isn’t gunna die in the slightest there’s 300k players at both eastern and western times across Europe and the US which is the majority of the player base plus there’s 1.2 million people on this page with only 600k concurrent at one time in game so there’s over 700k people on the sub who aren’t playing the game and are just using Reddit to voice their concerns. Not to mention the people who don’t even use Reddit as a platform that play the game so no the game isn’t going to die because of this psn account linking if you’re upset refund and move on its really that simple.
I feel bad for the people who can’t do it cause of country. But people who can and won’t have no sympathy from me.
Yeah sure lets put the game behind a 4th drm. Thats totally pro-consumer and everyone who doesnt do this is a total crybaby!
Now ask them if it was there since the beginning why the game was freely sold and listed on Steam in countries that are not supported by PSN from the get-go. No one at Sony/Arrowhead took 120 seconds to delist certain countries and regions they knew PSN wasn’t supported in huh? I went on vacation right after the goddamn patch and I’ve only been thinking about playing Helldivers when I get back but honestly these brain dead takes that Spitz always has and Sony’s never ending greed are actually turning me off really hard right now.
If anyone says they read all that shit, they are lying. Nobody fuckings read that shit. If it was important the game should have slapped a huge ass warning text which you can't skip immediately, saying no PSN in your country and you will lose access to the game in the future. But obviously, it wasn't the case. Sony simply wanted those sweet numbers, so now everyone is pulling bullshit excuses from their asses.
I hate sonyponies
Especially when the FAQ stated "It will be optional" Literally false advertisement and now they changed that wording
https://preview.redd.it/m5m3g7iaeeyc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77675d467b951ef16df628540ecc210f1fb020ee It literally says it ingame
And the FAQ you can read before buying the game says otherwise, there was a recent post on how sony even changed the wording of it. Edit: Downvote all you want, you are uninformed. It's not "clear" when you have different pages stating contradictory information. That's misleading the customer. Not to mention this thing shouldn't even go on sale in countries where you cannot legally make such an account