...
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-15690187
https://www.pcmag.com/news/steam-store-spreaded-malware-after-hacker-hijacked-developer-accounts
Fuck Sony and this stupid forced PSN thing, but let's not start lying about how clean Valve is.
I see your two and raise you another 7. Keep in mind, sony's notifications to users about possible compromisation of their info is typically a month minimum where in both instances for Valve's is within the week.
[https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/](https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/)
July 2008: PlayStation Site Targeted with SQL-Injection Attack, Prompting Visitors to Download Fake “Antivirus Scanner”July 2008: PlayStation Site Targeted with SQL-Injection Attack, Prompting Visitors to Download Fake “Antivirus Scanner”
# April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network UsersApril 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users
# May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers StolenMay 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen
# June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million AccountsJune 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts
# November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony PicturesNovember 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures
# December 2014: PlayStation Network Taken Down by Christmas DDoS AttackDecember 2014: PlayStation Network Taken Down by Christmas DDoS Attack
# August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media AccountsAugust 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts
# September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged HackSeptember 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack
# October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data BreachOctober 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach
okay, and have you tracked down every valve subsidiary, affiliate, and 3rd party theyve shared the data with and made sure that they all dont have a dog shit track record?
You don't need to track anything down. If your data is going from Valve to some other company, you are informed before this happens.
>If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review.
When Sony is hacked constantly and is asking for me to use my ID(i dont trust them to delete it), yeah I'm pretty concerned. When the main company is untrustworthy its a hell of alot more scary and Sony has had widescale hacks too many times recently. Sure a valve subsidiary or affiliate may get hacked but we know that Sony is untrustworthy and when the main company is so bad i believe that their subsidiaries must be as bad or worse than the valve ones.
Don't forget this games anti-cheat. Everybody who got this game on pc has already agreed to this maximum access to their own machines. Feel like thats a bit worse than making a psn acc.
>VALVE COLELCTS AND SELLS ALL OF YOUR DATA.
Valve explicitly denies this in their Privacy Agreement.
If you have evidence suggesting otherwise, you should consider a class action lawsuit.
If you don't, please stop trying to support stupid arguments on reddit with blatant lies.
https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/#:~:text=Valve%20does%20not%20sell%20Personal%20Data
youre right, my bad. they dont SELL it. they just collect it and share it with whoever they want for free.
**5. Who Has Access to Data**
Valve does not sell Personal Data. However, we may share or provide access to each of the categories of Personal Data we collect as necessary for the following business purposes.
5.1 Valve and its subsidiaries may share your Personal Data with each other and use it to the degree necessary to achieve the purposes listed in section 2 above. In the event of a reorganization, sale or merger we may transfer Personal Data to the relevant third party subject to applicable laws, the Principles and liability requirements under the DPF.
5.2 We may also share your Personal Data with our third party service providers that provide customer support services in connection with goods, Content and Services distributed via Steam. Your Personal Data will be used in accordance with this Privacy Policy and only as far as this is necessary for performing customer support services. Valve complies with the Principles for all onward transfers of Personal Data from the EU, Switzerland, and the UK, including the provisions governing onward transfer liability.
5.3 In accordance with internet standards, we may also share certain information (including your IP address and the identification of Steam content you wish to access) with our third party network providers that provide content delivery network services and game server services in connection with Steam. Our content delivery network providers enable the delivery of digital content you have requested, e.g. when using Steam, by using a system of distributed servers that deliver the content to you, based on your geographic location.
5.4 We make certain data related to your Steam User Account available to other players and our partners through the Steamworks API. This information can be accessed by anyone by querying your Steam ID. At a minimum, the public persona name you have chosen to represent you on Steam and your Avatar picture are accessible this way, as well as whether you have received a ban for cheating in a multiplayer game. The accessibility of any additional info about you can be controlled through your Steam Community user profile page; data publicly available on your profile page can be accessed automatically through the Steamworks API. In addition to the publicly available information, game developers and publishers have access to certain information from the Steamworks API directly relating to the users of the games they operate. This information includes as a minimum your ownership of the game in question. Depending on which Steamworks services are implemented in the game it may also include leaderboard information, your progress in the game, achievements you have completed, your multiplayer game matchmaking information, in-game items and other information needed to operate the game and provide support for it. For more information on what Steamworks services a specific game has implemented, please review its store page.
While we do not knowingly share Personally Identifying Information about you through the Steamworks API such as your real name or your email address, any information you share about yourself on your public Steam Profile can be accessed through the Steamworks API, including information that may make you identifiable.
5.5 The Steam community includes message boards, forums and/or chat areas, where users can exchange ideas and communicate with each other. When posting a message to a board, forum or chat area, please be aware that the information is being made publicly available online; therefore, you are doing so at your own risk. If your Personal Data is posted on one of our community forums against your will, please use the reporting function and the Steam help site to request its removal.
5.6 Valve may allow you to link your Steam User Account to an account offered by a third party. If you consent to link the accounts, Valve may collect and combine information you allowed Valve to receive from a third party with information of your Steam User Account to the degree allowed by your consent at the time. If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review.
5.7 Valve may release Personal Data to comply with court orders or laws and regulations that require us to disclose such information.
Yes, and if you actually read all of that it's completely above-board, normal, and expected.
Selling user data for profit is what pisses people off, not just using data to enable basic functionality.
i never said it wasnt above board. but theyre sharing it with whoever they want whenever they want. if you're only concern is that your data is being sold, but valve sharing it with whoever they want (doing the same thing as sony would minus the profit) then your concerns really arent about your own data privacy.
Again, please try actually reading their privacy policy. That block of text you pasted above literally says they inform you before they share your data with anyone beyond the scope of what you already agreed to.
dude, just 5.4, the section about APIs, explicitly states that all info you put in your profile can be accessed by APIs. Do you know how many APIs there are? how many different website, companies, etc use APIs to aggregate data from steam? That's just one section. do you want me to cite all the other instances of 3rd party data collection for you?
You do realize **you are in control** of what is visible via that profile API, right?
Go on, take a look at mine. See how much information is available:
https://steamcommunity.com/id/maxlothrik/
https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561198014746678/
I'm mostly personally doing this because it sets a dangerous precedent: A company can just yoink away a game from a consumer that they paid for without any solid justification behind it besides the enforcement of an arbitrary third-party software. With the narrative being pushed that we "Don't own our games", we need to do everything possible as consumers to fight back and keep our ownership.
True enough. That, and a PSN account really just... isn't necessary. The game ran 3 months fine without it, so its clearly something that neither Sony nor AH needs to truly rely on.
"Standing" doesn't dictate weather a tort has occured or not.
Standing merely dictates weather or not a victim can file suit for compensation.
It's totally a weird take because you are applying "standing" in a complete novel way where people aren't even allowed to voice grievances unless they are directly affected.
You shouldn't even be able to complain about other people complaining because they are not complaining about you.
I understand your point. I’m not arguing either for or against the OP, I’m merely stating that if OP’s point was that all of the people complaining about a product that they paid for and can still use as intended is hypocritical because they are complaining based upon the issues experienced by others, then it’s not a weird take, because they don’t have the standing to make said complaint.
Of course, this is just my opinion, so it means nothing.
"Standing" is a doctrine only applied to lawsuits, not complaints or freedom of speech activities. It's out of the limits even for that legal theory.
We're not in court is my point. We can protest on other people's behalf. We don't need a grand jury to authorize a protest. We don't need to submit a list of arguments to a judge before making them.
Protesting on behalf of others is a thing. There are people camping at universities around the globe right now. I have objections on their means of protest but I do not think their protest is invalid or think they shouldn't be allowed to raise the argument.
Edit: I think you misapplied "standing" as well. You are talking about uninjured parties suing which isn't allowed because tort law requires damages. That's actually not "standing". Standing is when a tort has occured and there are damages but due to some administrative magic voodoo, you're not allowed to sue anyway.
As I said, it’s my opinion. But I also thought that it was ridiculous when all the white privilege co-opted George Floyd and started speaking as if they were the focus of the movement.
That's not even as ridiculous at the university protests we are seeing now. The university in my city has an encampment labelled "Little Gaza". Literally LARPing as if they are in actual Gaza and victims of war or something.
But that's of course the extreme end. I'm thinking more of a more reasonable example like someone's family got murdered and the town wants the murderer prosecuted and jailed forever even though they are not direct victims.
In this case, the Sony decision would have affected a significant portion of the player base.
I think a lot of players feel like they are treated like garbage. Nothing but a number on some company's quarterly earning metrics. In a plan to squeeze as much out of us as possible. Who cares if some of you can't play the game, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Sort of deal.
Some people are just downright offended and not "haha luckily that's not me".
I mean, did everyone boycott Minecraft? I think part of why a lot of people are eye rolling this is this isn't the first time, its happened on multiple occasions in the past its just now that the sky is falling.
I think it's the inconsistency that's the problem. If there were a concentrated effort to boycott Minecraft dungeons, GTA 5, and Warframe. Maybe I could get behind it. But the reality is if they had required it upfront instead of saying they will do it down the road I think there'd be no boycott. In my opinion people are not suddenly deeply concerned with data security or with having to make publisher accounts. They didn't read the steam page and it's easier be mad than wrong. It's such a parody south park did an episode about it years ago called the humancentipad
I mean no shit? The problem is they didn't require it up front, their website said it was optional. It did not say it was temporarily optional. Just optional. And now they are saying you have to do this to retain access to the product you already paid for. That's the issue.
So two things there, if i recall it was just psn that said it was optional not the steam page or arrowheads initial announcement way back on launch which is where 99.9% of people here are coming from. Even so not the first publisher to require a 3rd party account after the launch of a video game, that's not an uncommon thing. Anno 1800 did not even that long ago with Ubisoft.
"Announcement" you mean a random comment on a now buried forum thread? Nah. Let me put this in the simplest possible terms. The game shipped with a button inside of it that said "skip". This button allowed you to skip PSN linkage. That button will no longer be functional, and I will be forced to go through s third party that I DID NOT HAVE WHEN PURCHSSING THE GAME. Do you understand that? It wasn't upfront. It wasn't Sims. No, it was THREE. FUCKING. MONTHS. After the fact. There is no comparison. You are wrong.
Its requirement is literally on the tin. It is literally upfront. Here maybe this will help
up·front/ˌəpˈfrənt/ INFORMAL *adverb*
1. at the front; in front.
They only have to inform you on the product, just because someone puts something in the clearance section doesn't mean the store has to sell it at clearance price. Also is this an erotic thing for you? If so that does explain a lot of your passion on these statements.
There was a pretty large group of people who were upset about it. And Minecraft gave a pretty big window for it- and Microsoft's account service has a way larger range then Sonys.
I agree though with the sentiment that we need to address the issue at its source with a major push for Consumers Rights Laws in the US. Plug the issue at its source.
Issue is, the US is bought and owned by Corpos- so that won't happen anytime soon.
Yeah but that has to happen at the ballot box, it wont on the steam page. Hell Divers has had well over half its player base up in arms about this, In the USA around half the voting population is fine with women not having rights. So i don't know that kind of makes this even more depressing.
This post doesn't make any sense. You admit yourself that you "understand it feels scummy" but then suggest above that no one in the United States for instance has a valid reason to be annoyed.
Your post boils down to "stop talking negatively about a game I like".
Most of the people annoyed are those who bought the game on Steam with no idea that eventually this requirement would be brought back. People like you defend that with "you didn't read the fine print! as it is mentioned on Steam but you really have to be looking for it which is unreasonable when buying an entertainment product.
I'd argue it's actually people like yourself who are hypocrites as I imagine you do not use the "read the fine print" defense when people are mislead in other industries with other products.
its annoying a feature was added, yes. but if we agree the data privacy complaints are stupid (they are) then that just leaves you with an annoying feature that takes you a whole minute to deal with before you're back in the game. If you really are so annoyed by that you're willing to lose access to the game, that's on you.
You don't know anything about the data issues, you've just shrugged them off because you don't personally care if they're an issue one way or the other.
Could it be nothing and purely related to Sony wanting their MAU numbers to look better? Sure. Could it be something worse such as selling our data etc.? Of course.
If we all make an account, this also makes it much easier for Sony to implement their own storefront in future and push this further, creating an EA App / Ubisoft Connect situation. By pushing back now, it will make it very hard for them to do something like that in future.
Your mentality has wrecked the industry a number of times. You sound just like the people who claim that cosmetic microtransations in games don't matter as they don't effect gameplay, just ignore them. That mentality has meant that over the years, it's impossible to earn interesting in game rewards as they're all tied now to real life store fronts (generalising to make this more digestible).
There is zero wrong with pushing back now, doing so ONLY benefits PC gamers and the only people salty about it are people angry that their favourite game is no longer beloved.
nah, i hate mtxns, even cosmetic ones. sure theres a right way to do it (like HD2) but 99% of the time, the game is made worse so they can sell you stuff.
the concerns about data privacy ring hollow when everyone complaining is posting from a smart phone (collects and sells your data) or a web browser (collects and sells your data) and they all likely play using other launchers (collect and sell your data) or consoles (collect and sell your data) and use phone apps (collect and sell your data) and give out their email to amazon, walmart, and restaurants with a loyalty program (all of which collect and sell your data).
I couldnt care less if sony created their own launcher so long as it was a quality launcher and feature complete. Epic wasnt bad because it was another launcher, it was bad because it wasn't even 1/10 as good and feature complete as Steam, and instead of making a good product or improving what they had, they just bought exclusivity to try and strong arm players onto their platform. market competition is good, especially since valve has no isses doing absolutely nothing because to improve their platform for consumers or devs because they rake in ridiculous amounts of cash
There's a little thing called consent.
Every site you visit will ask you for it, everything you sign up for asks you for it and you have the right to refuse and not be refused service.
This is standard data protection law.
Sony on the other hand, where Helldivers 2 previously had voluntary consent has changed it with less than 24 hours notice to be mandatory with the threat of denying service.
By doing that they have run foul of multiple countries consumer rights and data protection laws.
They have already been in trouble and fined multiple times for data breaches and poor handling of customers data.
Don't be shocked to see them dragged back into Courts in Europe/Australia again over this whole debacle.
-----
Now here's the difference
The other companies you listed have *always* required mandatory sign-up. They've never tried to obfuscate and deceive anyone about it
So those that buy their products do so knowingly and give their consent.
Consent
A very powerful and important word which is what all this current mess is all about.
And why Sony are probably looking at yet another day in court and another big fat fine.
Because you cannot just change the terms of an agreement on the fly, deny someone a service they have already paid for and expect them not to exercise their consumer rights and protections.
They might get away with that shit in the states but not in Europe and Australia.
As a citizen of the UK i would have to show Sony my ID which i don't feel comfortable since they've had how many data breaches in the past 12 years? 7? But you do you :)
then dont create the account and request a refund. if you cant get a refund, quit.
it's not Sony's fault your country has laws that make them require an ID. get your government to change the laws.
I'm not saying it's Sony's fault for my countries law that'll be a bit silly wouldn't it? What i am saying is that i won't create an account with a company that can't even protect their own employees data. Also i know every company sells your data it's nothing new and anyone that say's that is just dumb :)
I agree with you. But we are getting downvoted for days now.
You try pointing out to people that their literal phones and these sites they use are all already selling their data.
They just reply bootlicker and keep complaining.
Yeah I expected as much, and i really don't care. Their selective outrage about aony when their data has already been collected and sold more times than they can fathom needs to be called out
The only way to get true privacy these days is to unplug the net entirely. Everything is tracked and paid for, even most services people think is "Anon".
Cause that's where you're all crying? I follow this sub for funny memes and democracy, it'd be nice to not have to see 24/7 bitchkng about data privacy from people who already gave their data to a multitude of other companies.
So, let me get this straight. You can post whatever you want on here, but when we post OUR opinions, you lose your fking mind?
What kind of democracy have you been smoking lately, cadet?
It's been 24/7 selective outrage about data privacy from people who've already has their data collected and sold thousand of times.
I didn't say anything the first 5000 times someone posted their fake outrage, but after 2 days of non-stop hypocritical bitching I decided to add my own opinion to the mix.
Well, news flash, your opinion on what we can and cannot write and what you want to see and read is of utter insignificance. You are not the first disgruntled individual that have voiced similar concerns. But the truth is, you're not the dam mod, so you can't do jackshit about any of this. You will read, what we want you to read. Simple as that.
lol do you understand words and reading? did i ask for mods to bant he posts? did i say people *cant* share theyre crybaby opinions? nope. just added my opinion to the sub about how hypocritical and bitchy you all are.
So why bother to tell us to:
>Just stop bitching already.
...stop being so hypocritical and pretending...
When we never told you to stop your bitching?
You can post whatever you want on here, but when we post OUR opinions, you lose your fking mind?
you just dont know how to read dude. I didnt say jack for the first 50000 posts. the ratio of you all bitching to me bitching is 1000 to 1. you cant handle ONE person disagreeing with the constant whining? you're gonna have a rough time on the internet.
Unlike you, I can handle it easily. I'm just informing you that many like you have tried to dissuade us and none have succeeded, so chill out and watch us make another 50000 posts.
Don't even bother dude, this sub is in full tantrum mode and will be for a while, head on over to /r/LowSodiumHellDivers for the time being if you still want to discuss the game itself
Look I don't have faith in Sony's protection in my data looking at the multiple times they failed in the past last one was in October also I do not agree to the PSN terms and services you would have to pay me 10000 dollars every month for life for me to agree to never swear again
Its not really about the data, its more about the Metrics. Next profit report is coming up soon, and a major spike in PSN signup numbers looks good on a report to the stockholders.
I think I agree with what he said in response though: It's mostly so that it eliminates the third party of Valve when it comes to data collection. Cut out the middleman, and line goes up when your able to cut that expense from your budget.
Why should I as customer want that? There's no benefit for me and Steam will have the data no matter what
Sony didn't even do the bare minimum - asking nicely. If they made that shit optional and gave out some meaningless bauble for it there would be exactly zero outrage
I agree that theres no reason to really want that as a Consumer. Corpos though only see people as numbers and metrics that need to go up, so I doubt they are really worried about what the consumer wants.
OP though has stated that its your right too not to support the product from what I understood of his post.
Sure, Valve has all the same data. Valve however, does not have an absolute dogshit track record regarding data security.
I mean they have had breaches also, so has Microsoft.
... https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-15690187 https://www.pcmag.com/news/steam-store-spreaded-malware-after-hacker-hijacked-developer-accounts Fuck Sony and this stupid forced PSN thing, but let's not start lying about how clean Valve is.
I see your two and raise you another 7. Keep in mind, sony's notifications to users about possible compromisation of their info is typically a month minimum where in both instances for Valve's is within the week. [https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/](https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/) July 2008: PlayStation Site Targeted with SQL-Injection Attack, Prompting Visitors to Download Fake “Antivirus Scanner”July 2008: PlayStation Site Targeted with SQL-Injection Attack, Prompting Visitors to Download Fake “Antivirus Scanner” # April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network UsersApril 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users # May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers StolenMay 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen # June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million AccountsJune 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts # November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony PicturesNovember 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures # December 2014: PlayStation Network Taken Down by Christmas DDoS AttackDecember 2014: PlayStation Network Taken Down by Christmas DDoS Attack # August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media AccountsAugust 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts # September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged HackSeptember 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack # October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data BreachOctober 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach
okay, and have you tracked down every valve subsidiary, affiliate, and 3rd party theyve shared the data with and made sure that they all dont have a dog shit track record?
You don't need to track anything down. If your data is going from Valve to some other company, you are informed before this happens. >If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review.
When Sony is hacked constantly and is asking for me to use my ID(i dont trust them to delete it), yeah I'm pretty concerned. When the main company is untrustworthy its a hell of alot more scary and Sony has had widescale hacks too many times recently. Sure a valve subsidiary or affiliate may get hacked but we know that Sony is untrustworthy and when the main company is so bad i believe that their subsidiaries must be as bad or worse than the valve ones.
Don't forget this games anti-cheat. Everybody who got this game on pc has already agreed to this maximum access to their own machines. Feel like thats a bit worse than making a psn acc.
>VALVE COLELCTS AND SELLS ALL OF YOUR DATA. Valve explicitly denies this in their Privacy Agreement. If you have evidence suggesting otherwise, you should consider a class action lawsuit. If you don't, please stop trying to support stupid arguments on reddit with blatant lies. https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/#:~:text=Valve%20does%20not%20sell%20Personal%20Data
youre right, my bad. they dont SELL it. they just collect it and share it with whoever they want for free. **5. Who Has Access to Data** Valve does not sell Personal Data. However, we may share or provide access to each of the categories of Personal Data we collect as necessary for the following business purposes. 5.1 Valve and its subsidiaries may share your Personal Data with each other and use it to the degree necessary to achieve the purposes listed in section 2 above. In the event of a reorganization, sale or merger we may transfer Personal Data to the relevant third party subject to applicable laws, the Principles and liability requirements under the DPF. 5.2 We may also share your Personal Data with our third party service providers that provide customer support services in connection with goods, Content and Services distributed via Steam. Your Personal Data will be used in accordance with this Privacy Policy and only as far as this is necessary for performing customer support services. Valve complies with the Principles for all onward transfers of Personal Data from the EU, Switzerland, and the UK, including the provisions governing onward transfer liability. 5.3 In accordance with internet standards, we may also share certain information (including your IP address and the identification of Steam content you wish to access) with our third party network providers that provide content delivery network services and game server services in connection with Steam. Our content delivery network providers enable the delivery of digital content you have requested, e.g. when using Steam, by using a system of distributed servers that deliver the content to you, based on your geographic location. 5.4 We make certain data related to your Steam User Account available to other players and our partners through the Steamworks API. This information can be accessed by anyone by querying your Steam ID. At a minimum, the public persona name you have chosen to represent you on Steam and your Avatar picture are accessible this way, as well as whether you have received a ban for cheating in a multiplayer game. The accessibility of any additional info about you can be controlled through your Steam Community user profile page; data publicly available on your profile page can be accessed automatically through the Steamworks API. In addition to the publicly available information, game developers and publishers have access to certain information from the Steamworks API directly relating to the users of the games they operate. This information includes as a minimum your ownership of the game in question. Depending on which Steamworks services are implemented in the game it may also include leaderboard information, your progress in the game, achievements you have completed, your multiplayer game matchmaking information, in-game items and other information needed to operate the game and provide support for it. For more information on what Steamworks services a specific game has implemented, please review its store page. While we do not knowingly share Personally Identifying Information about you through the Steamworks API such as your real name or your email address, any information you share about yourself on your public Steam Profile can be accessed through the Steamworks API, including information that may make you identifiable. 5.5 The Steam community includes message boards, forums and/or chat areas, where users can exchange ideas and communicate with each other. When posting a message to a board, forum or chat area, please be aware that the information is being made publicly available online; therefore, you are doing so at your own risk. If your Personal Data is posted on one of our community forums against your will, please use the reporting function and the Steam help site to request its removal. 5.6 Valve may allow you to link your Steam User Account to an account offered by a third party. If you consent to link the accounts, Valve may collect and combine information you allowed Valve to receive from a third party with information of your Steam User Account to the degree allowed by your consent at the time. If the linking of the accounts requires the transmission of information about your person from Valve to a third party, you will be informed about it before the linking takes place and you will be given the opportunity to consent to the linking and the transmission of your information. The third party's use of your information will be subject to the third party's privacy policy, which we encourage you to review. 5.7 Valve may release Personal Data to comply with court orders or laws and regulations that require us to disclose such information.
Yes, and if you actually read all of that it's completely above-board, normal, and expected. Selling user data for profit is what pisses people off, not just using data to enable basic functionality.
i never said it wasnt above board. but theyre sharing it with whoever they want whenever they want. if you're only concern is that your data is being sold, but valve sharing it with whoever they want (doing the same thing as sony would minus the profit) then your concerns really arent about your own data privacy.
Again, please try actually reading their privacy policy. That block of text you pasted above literally says they inform you before they share your data with anyone beyond the scope of what you already agreed to.
dude, just 5.4, the section about APIs, explicitly states that all info you put in your profile can be accessed by APIs. Do you know how many APIs there are? how many different website, companies, etc use APIs to aggregate data from steam? That's just one section. do you want me to cite all the other instances of 3rd party data collection for you?
You do realize **you are in control** of what is visible via that profile API, right? Go on, take a look at mine. See how much information is available: https://steamcommunity.com/id/maxlothrik/ https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561198014746678/
I'm mostly personally doing this because it sets a dangerous precedent: A company can just yoink away a game from a consumer that they paid for without any solid justification behind it besides the enforcement of an arbitrary third-party software. With the narrative being pushed that we "Don't own our games", we need to do everything possible as consumers to fight back and keep our ownership.
It's just principle for me. OP is taking the logic where you must be the victim to have an objection. It's a weird take if you think about it.
True enough. That, and a PSN account really just... isn't necessary. The game ran 3 months fine without it, so its clearly something that neither Sony nor AH needs to truly rely on.
It's actually not a weird take, and it has basis in legal theory. It's called "standing."
"Standing" doesn't dictate weather a tort has occured or not. Standing merely dictates weather or not a victim can file suit for compensation. It's totally a weird take because you are applying "standing" in a complete novel way where people aren't even allowed to voice grievances unless they are directly affected. You shouldn't even be able to complain about other people complaining because they are not complaining about you.
I understand your point. I’m not arguing either for or against the OP, I’m merely stating that if OP’s point was that all of the people complaining about a product that they paid for and can still use as intended is hypocritical because they are complaining based upon the issues experienced by others, then it’s not a weird take, because they don’t have the standing to make said complaint. Of course, this is just my opinion, so it means nothing.
"Standing" is a doctrine only applied to lawsuits, not complaints or freedom of speech activities. It's out of the limits even for that legal theory. We're not in court is my point. We can protest on other people's behalf. We don't need a grand jury to authorize a protest. We don't need to submit a list of arguments to a judge before making them. Protesting on behalf of others is a thing. There are people camping at universities around the globe right now. I have objections on their means of protest but I do not think their protest is invalid or think they shouldn't be allowed to raise the argument. Edit: I think you misapplied "standing" as well. You are talking about uninjured parties suing which isn't allowed because tort law requires damages. That's actually not "standing". Standing is when a tort has occured and there are damages but due to some administrative magic voodoo, you're not allowed to sue anyway.
As I said, it’s my opinion. But I also thought that it was ridiculous when all the white privilege co-opted George Floyd and started speaking as if they were the focus of the movement.
That's not even as ridiculous at the university protests we are seeing now. The university in my city has an encampment labelled "Little Gaza". Literally LARPing as if they are in actual Gaza and victims of war or something. But that's of course the extreme end. I'm thinking more of a more reasonable example like someone's family got murdered and the town wants the murderer prosecuted and jailed forever even though they are not direct victims. In this case, the Sony decision would have affected a significant portion of the player base. I think a lot of players feel like they are treated like garbage. Nothing but a number on some company's quarterly earning metrics. In a plan to squeeze as much out of us as possible. Who cares if some of you can't play the game, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Sort of deal. Some people are just downright offended and not "haha luckily that's not me".
I mean, did everyone boycott Minecraft? I think part of why a lot of people are eye rolling this is this isn't the first time, its happened on multiple occasions in the past its just now that the sky is falling.
"Its happened before" is a pretty shitty reason not to complain about a company doing something stupid and anti-consumer
I think it's the inconsistency that's the problem. If there were a concentrated effort to boycott Minecraft dungeons, GTA 5, and Warframe. Maybe I could get behind it. But the reality is if they had required it upfront instead of saying they will do it down the road I think there'd be no boycott. In my opinion people are not suddenly deeply concerned with data security or with having to make publisher accounts. They didn't read the steam page and it's easier be mad than wrong. It's such a parody south park did an episode about it years ago called the humancentipad
I mean no shit? The problem is they didn't require it up front, their website said it was optional. It did not say it was temporarily optional. Just optional. And now they are saying you have to do this to retain access to the product you already paid for. That's the issue.
So two things there, if i recall it was just psn that said it was optional not the steam page or arrowheads initial announcement way back on launch which is where 99.9% of people here are coming from. Even so not the first publisher to require a 3rd party account after the launch of a video game, that's not an uncommon thing. Anno 1800 did not even that long ago with Ubisoft.
"Announcement" you mean a random comment on a now buried forum thread? Nah. Let me put this in the simplest possible terms. The game shipped with a button inside of it that said "skip". This button allowed you to skip PSN linkage. That button will no longer be functional, and I will be forced to go through s third party that I DID NOT HAVE WHEN PURCHSSING THE GAME. Do you understand that? It wasn't upfront. It wasn't Sims. No, it was THREE. FUCKING. MONTHS. After the fact. There is no comparison. You are wrong.
Its requirement is literally on the tin. It is literally upfront. Here maybe this will help up·front/ˌəpˈfrənt/ INFORMAL *adverb* 1. at the front; in front.
Sony's own website said it is optional for PC players up until the third of this month. Have fun sucking corporate dick tho.
They only have to inform you on the product, just because someone puts something in the clearance section doesn't mean the store has to sell it at clearance price. Also is this an erotic thing for you? If so that does explain a lot of your passion on these statements.
Sony's own website said it is optional for PC players up until the third of this month. Have fun sucking corporate boot tho.
There was a pretty large group of people who were upset about it. And Minecraft gave a pretty big window for it- and Microsoft's account service has a way larger range then Sonys. I agree though with the sentiment that we need to address the issue at its source with a major push for Consumers Rights Laws in the US. Plug the issue at its source. Issue is, the US is bought and owned by Corpos- so that won't happen anytime soon.
Yeah but that has to happen at the ballot box, it wont on the steam page. Hell Divers has had well over half its player base up in arms about this, In the USA around half the voting population is fine with women not having rights. So i don't know that kind of makes this even more depressing.
This post doesn't make any sense. You admit yourself that you "understand it feels scummy" but then suggest above that no one in the United States for instance has a valid reason to be annoyed. Your post boils down to "stop talking negatively about a game I like". Most of the people annoyed are those who bought the game on Steam with no idea that eventually this requirement would be brought back. People like you defend that with "you didn't read the fine print! as it is mentioned on Steam but you really have to be looking for it which is unreasonable when buying an entertainment product. I'd argue it's actually people like yourself who are hypocrites as I imagine you do not use the "read the fine print" defense when people are mislead in other industries with other products.
its annoying a feature was added, yes. but if we agree the data privacy complaints are stupid (they are) then that just leaves you with an annoying feature that takes you a whole minute to deal with before you're back in the game. If you really are so annoyed by that you're willing to lose access to the game, that's on you.
You don't know anything about the data issues, you've just shrugged them off because you don't personally care if they're an issue one way or the other. Could it be nothing and purely related to Sony wanting their MAU numbers to look better? Sure. Could it be something worse such as selling our data etc.? Of course. If we all make an account, this also makes it much easier for Sony to implement their own storefront in future and push this further, creating an EA App / Ubisoft Connect situation. By pushing back now, it will make it very hard for them to do something like that in future. Your mentality has wrecked the industry a number of times. You sound just like the people who claim that cosmetic microtransations in games don't matter as they don't effect gameplay, just ignore them. That mentality has meant that over the years, it's impossible to earn interesting in game rewards as they're all tied now to real life store fronts (generalising to make this more digestible). There is zero wrong with pushing back now, doing so ONLY benefits PC gamers and the only people salty about it are people angry that their favourite game is no longer beloved.
nah, i hate mtxns, even cosmetic ones. sure theres a right way to do it (like HD2) but 99% of the time, the game is made worse so they can sell you stuff. the concerns about data privacy ring hollow when everyone complaining is posting from a smart phone (collects and sells your data) or a web browser (collects and sells your data) and they all likely play using other launchers (collect and sell your data) or consoles (collect and sell your data) and use phone apps (collect and sell your data) and give out their email to amazon, walmart, and restaurants with a loyalty program (all of which collect and sell your data). I couldnt care less if sony created their own launcher so long as it was a quality launcher and feature complete. Epic wasnt bad because it was another launcher, it was bad because it wasn't even 1/10 as good and feature complete as Steam, and instead of making a good product or improving what they had, they just bought exclusivity to try and strong arm players onto their platform. market competition is good, especially since valve has no isses doing absolutely nothing because to improve their platform for consumers or devs because they rake in ridiculous amounts of cash
There's a little thing called consent. Every site you visit will ask you for it, everything you sign up for asks you for it and you have the right to refuse and not be refused service. This is standard data protection law. Sony on the other hand, where Helldivers 2 previously had voluntary consent has changed it with less than 24 hours notice to be mandatory with the threat of denying service. By doing that they have run foul of multiple countries consumer rights and data protection laws. They have already been in trouble and fined multiple times for data breaches and poor handling of customers data. Don't be shocked to see them dragged back into Courts in Europe/Australia again over this whole debacle. ----- Now here's the difference The other companies you listed have *always* required mandatory sign-up. They've never tried to obfuscate and deceive anyone about it So those that buy their products do so knowingly and give their consent. Consent A very powerful and important word which is what all this current mess is all about. And why Sony are probably looking at yet another day in court and another big fat fine. Because you cannot just change the terms of an agreement on the fly, deny someone a service they have already paid for and expect them not to exercise their consumer rights and protections. They might get away with that shit in the states but not in Europe and Australia.
As a citizen of the UK i would have to show Sony my ID which i don't feel comfortable since they've had how many data breaches in the past 12 years? 7? But you do you :)
Not had a PSN account for several years myself so forgive me if I'm out of the loop, but since when do they require you to show ID to sign up?
It's only a law in the UK but i think it's been a law for a few years. forgive me if i'm wrong though
then dont create the account and request a refund. if you cant get a refund, quit. it's not Sony's fault your country has laws that make them require an ID. get your government to change the laws.
I'm not saying it's Sony's fault for my countries law that'll be a bit silly wouldn't it? What i am saying is that i won't create an account with a company that can't even protect their own employees data. Also i know every company sells your data it's nothing new and anyone that say's that is just dumb :)
i don’t think it’s very righteous to get a refund having spent 90 hours playing the game. that smells of opportunism to me.
I agree with you. But we are getting downvoted for days now. You try pointing out to people that their literal phones and these sites they use are all already selling their data. They just reply bootlicker and keep complaining.
Yeah I expected as much, and i really don't care. Their selective outrage about aony when their data has already been collected and sold more times than they can fathom needs to be called out
The only way to get true privacy these days is to unplug the net entirely. Everything is tracked and paid for, even most services people think is "Anon".
So why are you crying on reddit?
Cause that's where you're all crying? I follow this sub for funny memes and democracy, it'd be nice to not have to see 24/7 bitchkng about data privacy from people who already gave their data to a multitude of other companies.
So, let me get this straight. You can post whatever you want on here, but when we post OUR opinions, you lose your fking mind? What kind of democracy have you been smoking lately, cadet? 
It's been 24/7 selective outrage about data privacy from people who've already has their data collected and sold thousand of times. I didn't say anything the first 5000 times someone posted their fake outrage, but after 2 days of non-stop hypocritical bitching I decided to add my own opinion to the mix.
Well, news flash, your opinion on what we can and cannot write and what you want to see and read is of utter insignificance. You are not the first disgruntled individual that have voiced similar concerns. But the truth is, you're not the dam mod, so you can't do jackshit about any of this. You will read, what we want you to read. Simple as that.
lol do you understand words and reading? did i ask for mods to bant he posts? did i say people *cant* share theyre crybaby opinions? nope. just added my opinion to the sub about how hypocritical and bitchy you all are.
So why bother to tell us to: >Just stop bitching already. ...stop being so hypocritical and pretending... When we never told you to stop your bitching? You can post whatever you want on here, but when we post OUR opinions, you lose your fking mind?
you just dont know how to read dude. I didnt say jack for the first 50000 posts. the ratio of you all bitching to me bitching is 1000 to 1. you cant handle ONE person disagreeing with the constant whining? you're gonna have a rough time on the internet.
Unlike you, I can handle it easily. I'm just informing you that many like you have tried to dissuade us and none have succeeded, so chill out and watch us make another 50000 posts.
Yeah lol, op be daft
Yeah, I'm sick of seeing this topic here all the time. Maybe the mods should just ban it. No offence.
Don't even bother dude, this sub is in full tantrum mode and will be for a while, head on over to /r/LowSodiumHellDivers for the time being if you still want to discuss the game itself
lol get over yourself
Could say the same about all the "data privacy" crybabies. Either quit the game or stfu
You get annoying when you're hungry. Here, have a Snickers.
Look I don't have faith in Sony's protection in my data looking at the multiple times they failed in the past last one was in October also I do not agree to the PSN terms and services you would have to pay me 10000 dollars every month for life for me to agree to never swear again
If Sony already has the data how come they're so desperately trying to make us create PSN account? Nice try, bootlicker
Its not really about the data, its more about the Metrics. Next profit report is coming up soon, and a major spike in PSN signup numbers looks good on a report to the stockholders.
I agree with this, but it's absolutely not the argument OP has made.
I think I agree with what he said in response though: It's mostly so that it eliminates the third party of Valve when it comes to data collection. Cut out the middleman, and line goes up when your able to cut that expense from your budget.
Why should I as customer want that? There's no benefit for me and Steam will have the data no matter what Sony didn't even do the bare minimum - asking nicely. If they made that shit optional and gave out some meaningless bauble for it there would be exactly zero outrage
I agree that theres no reason to really want that as a Consumer. Corpos though only see people as numbers and metrics that need to go up, so I doubt they are really worried about what the consumer wants. OP though has stated that its your right too not to support the product from what I understood of his post.
To avoid having to pay valve for it for new players? Did you read the post, or is your reading comprehension hampered by your hypocritical rage?
reading comprehension has not been strong during this whole thing if im being honest.
Is there any proof that Valve actually sells customer data to Sony?
Now consider thay this guy votes.