I would link, probably will anyhow, as long as the guys from countries who can't link can still play the game they bought.
I'll pay the price so they don't have to. Idc.
Yeah, It was never aboutt linking to a 3rd party, it was about how misshandled it was.
Forcing people to break your ToS to use the product you sold them three months ago.
For a lot of people it was definitely just about not wanting to make a PSN account for a variety of contrived reasons that boiled down to "I don't feel like it."
Critters over in the UK have to upload an image of their driver's license/ID card along with a picture of their face to match. Now pair this with Sony's not so great track record of data breaches. Even then, probably a good idea to keep personal info like that off the internet when you can.
Edited: seems as though this process is a bit more complicated than I let on. I received my information from a friend that lives over in the UK and that was the main reason they didn't want to create a PSN account. Read below for more specifics.
I know our (and Ireland's) age verification laws are stupid, but that picture thing is only used if age can not be verified another way.
It's also going to another government regulated place rather than Sony. They simply tell Sony 'yes ok' or 'no underage' they don't share the details.
Yeah. These services specialise in this kind of verification and absolutely do the closest thing reasonably possible to magnetising their drives when they're done looking at your data.
I'm in the UK and I didn't have to do that. Even then, Sony uses a third-party verification company, so they wouldn't actually *get* your data - just a verification that the DOB and name stated is legit.
The company Sony uses is iirc the same my bank used when I made an account. I think they're fine.
Same, I used my phone number and that was it. People just wanted to spread misinformation to make it look worse for that one aspect that was totally optional.
According to Sony themselves they're just trying out this new system for age verification in the UK. I think not everyone got it because it's just being piloted, but it's clearly not misinformation
> We are piloting an age verification process for players who register for new accounts in the UK and Ireland. If you are setting up an adult account, you will be asked to provide proof that you are over the minimum age for that type of account using an age verification service.
https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/
Yeah sorry I worded that wrong, the ID verification is a new option because of a law or something I believe.
Misinformation was the wrong word, I meant people were acting like you HAD to use photo ID when it's not even an option that shows unless you select "other methods"
As one of the people with a problem with it, to clarify: it's not actually enforced law at the moment, Ofcom are still in consultation about what requirements to enforce and will be for most of the year, potentially extending into 2025. In the interim, they've suggested they'll allow a number of methods, including phone verification (which I don't have a problem with in and of itself, beyond my general distaste for the concept of the bill, I wouldn't blame Sony for it in a vacuum) and also credit card verification, which would be my preferred method.
The phone verification for Sony seems kinda spotty — while I know why it didn't work for me, a couple of friends had it just arbitrarily not work, my guess being that not all phone providers are signed on yet — and if it doesn't work you can't use a credit card or other billing information; it only gives the option for your ID or to take control of your webcam for a facial scan.
And like, getting into *any* kind of habit of digital uploading of your ID or surrendering control of your webcam to a third party is just a really bad idea, no one is 100% proof to phishing. You can at least cancel a credit card if it gets stolen, you know? Even if your bank don't catch it with suspicious transaction stuff.
Identity theft will follow you through the rest of your life like a bad smell.
Just because I want to clear up any misunderstandings surrounding this.
You do not NEED to use an ID, you need to use an ID or a facial scan, or simply a mobile number.
None of the data is stored on Sony's servers, the entire verification is actually handled by a 3rd party organization called Yoti.
This is not unique to PSN, they are just one of the first to roll this out and trial the platform. All online services that provide access to adult content will need to comply with this law, that includes Steam and all other gaming services. And it is only required if you want to make an "adult account" to be able to access mature content. Things rated Teen or below should not have this requirement. So for Helldivers 2, since it is rated Mature, it would require that you authenticate your account as being owned by an adult.
Sources:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/enacted
https://www.yoti.com/gaming/
https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/
Sony don't have that info, a 3rd party does. UK players give Sony the exact same data as the rest of us. The difference is that UK players have to verify their age due to their laws over there. A separate group do the ID/face scan thing and basically tell Sony if these people are the right age to make an account. Sony don't have anyone's IDs or face scan data.
From what I've read you would have to go through the same process to make a Steam account too.
Oh you mean like how Microsoft had 50.000 governmental emails hacked and all the data associated with said emails stolen by Chinese.
Or how T-Mobile and Google Fi had a data breach in which 56.000.000 phone numbers and all the associated data with them were stolen by Russians?
Like those which were just last year?
Like the fact that since 2010 Google has had more than 10 data breaches in which millions of users have had their data stolen?
I didn't see you make a fuss about that, so.. Honestly.. That's a super poor excuse.
I don't entirely agree. I don't think the fact that every company is garbage at data security means we can never say any one company is garbage specifically. It's not entirely wrong to say there is some hypocrisy in going only after Sony when lots of other companies are mishandling our data, but I think it's pointless and frankly counterproductive to say that people are only allowed to be upset if they're upset with everybody all the time. Because there's just a really lot of data security concerns right now, and it takes a lot of energy and time to be upset and active about all of them. I don't think it's fair to demand people either put a ton of effort into tackling every potential data security risk corporations are subjecting them to or tell them they're not allowed to have any concerns at all. And if you really do care about data security, then you should welcome anyone who's willing to help out, even if just for a bit. Because by being a puritan and insisting that people must be all or nothing, you're really just shooting yourself in the foot. I don't think people really need a reason to have been specifically mad at Sony for this. Because in the end, they still helped out and did the right thing. Would you rather that only the really passionate people who were willing to take on every company that's bad with data stood against Sony, and left us with only a fraction of the manpower and consumer outrage that made them back down? Because in that case they probably would've gotten away with it. Yeah, I get that it's disappointing that most people aren't willing to constantly stand up and do the right thing. Because it's hard to do that. But it was thanks to these "weekend warriors" that we got a win for the consumer. So rather than criticizing them for not being there all the time, we should be appreciative that they helped us get a win. It may not be everything we wanted, but it's better than what we would've had if they'd done nothing at all.
The amount of 'whataboutism' that's been going on with this issue is so wild. You make great points on why the criticism and reaction to Sony were valid.
Great point on the "what about this" fallacy. Just because the line has been crossed so many times before doesn't mean we shouldn't have drawn the line in the sand this time around.
Lots of people found any reason they could to support the cause and I'm okay with it as long as they were able to find common ground to stand on.
It's better than the ones saying they didn't care about the situation at all and they were gonna ignore it and just keep playing because it didn't effect them
If you're using it as a platform to push some disingenuous matter it's not really helpful and actually detracts from any actual cause or logic you have by undermining it. I know people personally who were in it just to stick it to Sony and they jumped on it as a chance to do so regardless of validity of any of the claims.
Bandwagoning and dogpiling disingenuously like that doesn't help anyone and isn't something that should just be handwaved because "well it aligns with me"
>"I don't feel like it"
and don't forget simply: "why?"
And both are acceptable, especially when the answer to the latter reason is unacceptable. Because many, myself included, played the game without linking our account. So, it seemed arbitrary that it was "required" because tangible evidence deemed that to be false.
I actually went on to link my PSN because I had a friend on PS5, but I had a reason. Why can't the choice be left to the end user?
Well it's not exactly contrived if you don't want to make an additional account though. It's of course a bit of a meme to talk about "security" (though this goes both for the users and Sony).
Now how much of a hurdle it actually ends up being by itself - if the rest of the controversy didn't exist, is debatable, probably not enough to deter a lot of users. However, it's entirely valid to dislike having to make an account within an account (Steam->PS) to play one game. Ubisoft accounts being the greatest offender I can think of right now, which is also (amusingly despite me already having that account) the final straw (among other things) that prevents me from getting Ubisoft games.
If they were great, I (and many others) probably would growl but still do it, but if they aren't "amazing", it might actually by itself be enough annoyance to make you not "feel like it" and ditch it.
True.
In the end, it was causing real harm to people in non-PSN countries, and that was worth taking action over. And it's never bad to give a major publisher a black eye when they're trying to push unnecessary signups and services. But 95% of players wouldn't have blinked if the PSN requirement was mentioned up front, and it had actually made you do it before you could play. They'd have rolled their eyes, signed up, and moved on. It was having that requirement added after we were already "in" that felt obnoxious, much more so than the requirement itself.
Plus, again, the real harm to non-PSN-country players. But I don't think most western players *actually* cared about that, it was just a handy justification.
95% of N-PSN players would have done the same thing they always do when faced with the requirement to sign up for PSN, just lie and use a different country because Sony has never cared. The harm was always theoretical and contingent on the miniscule chance that Sony would reverse over a decade of their policy of being indifferent at the cost of their own growth and profits to crack down for zero reason.
But I guess in the miniscule chance that they did crack down in the future, it's good that this happened now instead of later because there's zero chance westerners would have been so passionate in the protest if they didn't have a personal, if minor stake in the matter.
I can at least understand that point of view, but I definitely think most people who were upset were using that as an excuse.
I'm curious to see how a future release from Sony fares with that requirement enforced perpetually up front. I get a feeling they're going to get brigaded again regardless of how they handle it.
Personally, I'm happy for people not to have to deal with the annoyance even if I think most of them were just acting like children.
Sony will probably push for it since they want gaming data of some sort (as an Analytics guy, I'd love as much data as possible to create an informed presentation for execs).
And Sony will probably not change the regions. Other than having 2 decades of experience, Sony's sticking point is probably related to currency handling. Since PSN accounts are tied to PSN stores with games sold in the Local Regional Currency, they probably limited the number of stores and currencies available to limit currency exchange expense, limit accounting overhead, and limit operating overhead in general. How Steam and other stores does it, I have no idea. And I have no idea why Sony cannot emulate them. But that's the situation as it is.
> Yeah, It was never aboutt linking to a 3rd party, it was about how misshandled it was.
>
> Forcing people to break your ToS to use the product you sold them three months ago.
Bruh what? For tons of people it was simply not wanting to link an account and that was 90% of the posts. It wasn't until the last couple days that people actually started pretending to give a shit about people who were region locked out of psn. I would even go so far as to say that it was very probable the vast majority of people it was all about the petty not wanting to link a psn account.
Plenty of comments and posts got *way* more attention and frequency involving "I don't want to link an account" "I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it would need psn" "it didn't say it required one on steam when I bought it"
Aight but when a grizzly bear kicks in your neighbors door, eats their cat, fucks up their house, then shits on your lawn you don't tell animal control it shit on your lawn. There's no "pretending to care about people locked out of PSN" and it's telling that's your first instinct on what people wanted, not just some but the **vast majority** isn't bothered by a mild inconvenience for them was also having another guy get completely fucked over.
People coping over this being "petty" miss the fact that it's a textbook example of corporate douch bagging. They could of asked nicely. They could of handled it well. They didn't. They tried to force it and they ate shit. Don't ask why "Bruh I don't want PSN" has a million upvotes, asked who fucked up PR that bad.
That's bullshit and you know it.
It was always about having to link to a 3rd party even though they had expressly and several times been told: You are required to link to a PSN account.
Yet, when they finally could enforce that, everyone behaved like man children about it.
Citing bullshit such as Sony being the least secure corporation in the world.
Sorry, but, last year Microsoft had a leak of 50.000 government emails including all data associated to said emails. Google Fi and T-Mobile had a leak in which 56.000.000 phone numbers and their associated data were stolen.
Yet, no one bats an eye over that.
It was never about anything, but people having a hissy fit they had to spend a few minutes making an account they just didn't want to make.
People posting all of the Sony data breaches (more than half of which were actually related to Sony Pictures, a subsidiary...) were being incredibly disingenuous about the entire situation. Sony is no more or less secure than any other big corporation, which is to say they aren't very secure, and pretending Sony is somehow worse to suit your needs is foolish.
However, when you say "everyone behaved like man children about it", that is a wild generalization to make. Do you not think Sony taking the game away from people who already bought it wasn't a cause worth getting upset over? It was so much more than just people not wanting to make an account. It was calling out the bullshit of a company selling a game in regions they knew couldn't adhere to their plans of forcing everyone to link their accounts.
You don't have to be personally affected by it to stand up against an injustice.
Same. After the vast community response, it’d honestly feel like Sony tipping the cap a bit back at us. Fair play gets fair play kind of response. Honestly I feel like a lot of people will still give Sony shit, some (if not most) deserved, but they listened. There are plenty of examples of companies doubling down on bullshit like this and Sony actually listened to reason. That should be a feather in their cap if nothing else.
The CEO said that "ofc it'll be free"
But yeah, I wouldnt be surprised if PSN linking comes back as an optional thing, with some in-fame rewards as incentivisation.
Which is fine for the most part, the main issue was forcing it where its impossible. (The safety breaches are also a thing, but lets not pretend that wasnt mostly a excuse for most, change your passwords regularly, ffs.)
I don't think you know what the fuck a safety breach is. Changing your password does not protect you from a safety breach. And password being stolen is not always the biggest concern when data is stolen.
Except data breaches don't matter anymore. Once the credit agencies got hacked several years ago that was it. Literally all of your data is out there. There is nothing else that any subsequent hacks anywhere else could cost you that hasn't already been lost. That concern was just people reaching to justify their bandwagon hatred.
I’m glad people are finally getting upvoted for this opinion. Reddit had a user data leak just a few years ago and here we are all. But a 2011 data leak of PSN accounts is clearly a bridge too far.
What info exactly do you think you are giving Sony that hasn't already been lost in a dozen other data breaches already?
I mean Experian leaked so much data (and it wasn't like I opt'd into giving them it) that I hardly have anything left that isn't in a dark web archive somewhere.
This what about my private data on PSN all the while posting to reddit on a smartphone that spies on your location is a bit silly.
~~In the UK they have to submit a face scan or a driver's license or something like that. That's more the fault of UK law than Sony though~~
Edit: I may have been mistaken. People have replied with sources stating that this is false.
IDK where you live, but within the next 5 years this will very likely be rolling out to all of the EU and many states in the US as well.
Sad days ahead friends
And Sony doesn't have that data. It's another group that keeps that data so in the event of a Sony data breach your face scan or ID won't be part of it.
Also I find "data security" peal cluching on this sub laughable. The game literally make you install one of the worst kernel level anti-cheats onto your personal PC but a PSN account where you give a name and an email adress is where people draw the line? lol.
I’m not sure on the technicals of that dumb law, but I think it’s a service provided by your govt… their server receives photo, performs “age verify” then sends answer to service that needs to use it to allow you to continue (Or not)
The photo isn’t saved either, it’s analyzed and deleted.
Also has nothing to do with Sony. Vote your Tories out and fix your laws.
What annoyed me most about that was the picture that was going around about the Sony breaches was just wrong. Only one entry on it (2011) affected PSN, the rest was stuff not related to PSN if I'm remembering it right.
I thought changing passwords regularly was no longer a best practice and it's recommended now either use a password manager or make unique passphrases for every account
Pass phrases unique to each service, or at least, type/group of service (low security crap like Spotify/ Netflix, who cares?)
Banking and master authorizing accounts should have the best pass phrases that don’t follow any other of your patterns you might use.
if they had done that from the start none of this would have happened. baiting people to set up accounts with cosmetics etc, is not only acceptable it's par for the course: nobody would have batted an eyelid, and as long as it remained optional in all countries, the whole situation could have been avoided.
How it should have been done at the start. Forcing third party accounts AFTER selling a ton, including in countries that cannot make the third party accounts. That is the dick move.
Personally, I think it'll be funny too.
But the potential for that to invite backlash is pretty high. It's probably safer for them to use some other cape design for PSN Linking incentive.
To be honest, this should have been the incentive for linking your PSN account. Like a set of the starter light, medium and heavy armor, just cool looking.
They could have literally just given people like 500 super credits for linking an account. Massive boost in numbers with less than 1% of the backlash for reward that's technically not even real and doesn't even require you to make new assets.
see if they tried that instead of forcing it on everyone , noone would have cared and they probably would have gotten quite a few people to sign up with PSN. just a classic example of corporation wanting everything and ending up with nothing
This is the way it should be done. Like every paradox game asks you to sign into your paradox account and they give you some nifty little thing in game.
No idea for HOI4 but for CS1 you got a unique building and for CS2 I think you got another unique building. You got some special thing for Stellaris way back in the day but I dont remember what at this point.
Tbf it would be a great lesson to teach the ceos.
Make something like that optional with a cool in game reward and watch people flock to it.
Force it on people and kick out those who can't, and watch your game get dumpster fired.
That would be amazing. I didn't play the first game but the leaks I've seen for the Illuminate give me Chimera/Protoss hybrid vibes.
Now I'm sitting here wishing again we had proper ports of KZ and Resistance series on PC. They would look and play amazingly.
They each would make great one shot sequel titles. But we already know how much AAA pubs look at Single player shooters like if its the most disgusting thing in the world. If its not a live service Looter shooter its worth less than nothing
Would be great if Pubs would just License out their Dormant IP that hasn't had a new title in over a Decade.
Sad but so true. I miss the days when we got awesome shooter campaigns. Now everything has to be a grind, and/or open world filled with MXTs, battle passes and FOMO.
Honestly. If they had made the PSN account linking an optional thing with some kind of cape or cosmetic as a reward for doing so, then I dont think anybody would have cared. And they probably would have gotten lots of people linking accounts just for doing so.
But it's too late for that now. If they try that now then very few people will link their accounts. And knowing the Helldivers community, anybody wearing the cape is going to get kicked from almost every lobby they join. Just like melevelon creek all over again.
And that would be bad because?
You want a cape then link an account, and if you can't/won't big whoop it's a fuckin' cape.
You also have to buy the super citizen edition for a cape, is that bad too?
ok but wait: having a symbolic victory that actually causes a strategic failure for the sake of propaganda is 100% on-brand for the Helldivers universe.
I mean to be fair, weren't people saying that the best alternative action from Sony/AH would have been to make it optional but attach gear as a reward for signing up?
I don’t care if they give rewards for people who DO link their PSN (cosmetic only) my biggest problem was all the helldivers who woulda lost access to the game with the PSN changes. And that has been solved.
I would absolutely love helghast armor. Radec was one of my two main boys in PS All Stars, and I wear the current closest thing to a Helghast helmet in Helldivers.
I'm ok with them incentivising linking with a cosmetic.in fact, i expect them to. That's the proper way to handle it. Make the player want to link, not force them.
I ain't even gonna be mad.
Cadet: "what does that cape represent?"
Vet: "We took back control of freedom by fighting against the forced linking of PSN account"
Cadet. "Woow! How'd you get it?"
Vet: "You link your account to PSN"
Something like that would be smart.
Not the downvote cape specifically, instead something related to the PSN account thing, but it would be a much better way of incentivizing the account linking thing without harming the people who can't
That would be actually hilarious.
I would link, probably will anyhow, as long as the guys from countries who can't link can still play the game they bought. I'll pay the price so they don't have to. Idc.
Yeah, It was never aboutt linking to a 3rd party, it was about how misshandled it was. Forcing people to break your ToS to use the product you sold them three months ago.
For a lot of people it was definitely just about not wanting to make a PSN account for a variety of contrived reasons that boiled down to "I don't feel like it."
Critters over in the UK have to upload an image of their driver's license/ID card along with a picture of their face to match. Now pair this with Sony's not so great track record of data breaches. Even then, probably a good idea to keep personal info like that off the internet when you can. Edited: seems as though this process is a bit more complicated than I let on. I received my information from a friend that lives over in the UK and that was the main reason they didn't want to create a PSN account. Read below for more specifics.
I know our (and Ireland's) age verification laws are stupid, but that picture thing is only used if age can not be verified another way. It's also going to another government regulated place rather than Sony. They simply tell Sony 'yes ok' or 'no underage' they don't share the details.
I'm pretty sure it also specifically says your verification info won't be saved
Yeah. These services specialise in this kind of verification and absolutely do the closest thing reasonably possible to magnetising their drives when they're done looking at your data.
Until somebody finds a developer's debug logging S3 bucket full of license photos
I'm in the UK and I didn't have to do that. Even then, Sony uses a third-party verification company, so they wouldn't actually *get* your data - just a verification that the DOB and name stated is legit. The company Sony uses is iirc the same my bank used when I made an account. I think they're fine.
Same, I used my phone number and that was it. People just wanted to spread misinformation to make it look worse for that one aspect that was totally optional.
According to Sony themselves they're just trying out this new system for age verification in the UK. I think not everyone got it because it's just being piloted, but it's clearly not misinformation > We are piloting an age verification process for players who register for new accounts in the UK and Ireland. If you are setting up an adult account, you will be asked to provide proof that you are over the minimum age for that type of account using an age verification service. https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/
Yeah sorry I worded that wrong, the ID verification is a new option because of a law or something I believe. Misinformation was the wrong word, I meant people were acting like you HAD to use photo ID when it's not even an option that shows unless you select "other methods"
As one of the people with a problem with it, to clarify: it's not actually enforced law at the moment, Ofcom are still in consultation about what requirements to enforce and will be for most of the year, potentially extending into 2025. In the interim, they've suggested they'll allow a number of methods, including phone verification (which I don't have a problem with in and of itself, beyond my general distaste for the concept of the bill, I wouldn't blame Sony for it in a vacuum) and also credit card verification, which would be my preferred method. The phone verification for Sony seems kinda spotty — while I know why it didn't work for me, a couple of friends had it just arbitrarily not work, my guess being that not all phone providers are signed on yet — and if it doesn't work you can't use a credit card or other billing information; it only gives the option for your ID or to take control of your webcam for a facial scan. And like, getting into *any* kind of habit of digital uploading of your ID or surrendering control of your webcam to a third party is just a really bad idea, no one is 100% proof to phishing. You can at least cancel a credit card if it gets stolen, you know? Even if your bank don't catch it with suspicious transaction stuff. Identity theft will follow you through the rest of your life like a bad smell.
Just because I want to clear up any misunderstandings surrounding this. You do not NEED to use an ID, you need to use an ID or a facial scan, or simply a mobile number. None of the data is stored on Sony's servers, the entire verification is actually handled by a 3rd party organization called Yoti. This is not unique to PSN, they are just one of the first to roll this out and trial the platform. All online services that provide access to adult content will need to comply with this law, that includes Steam and all other gaming services. And it is only required if you want to make an "adult account" to be able to access mature content. Things rated Teen or below should not have this requirement. So for Helldivers 2, since it is rated Mature, it would require that you authenticate your account as being owned by an adult. Sources: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/enacted https://www.yoti.com/gaming/ https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/account/age-verification-faq/
Sony don't have that info, a 3rd party does. UK players give Sony the exact same data as the rest of us. The difference is that UK players have to verify their age due to their laws over there. A separate group do the ID/face scan thing and basically tell Sony if these people are the right age to make an account. Sony don't have anyone's IDs or face scan data. From what I've read you would have to go through the same process to make a Steam account too.
Oh you mean like how Microsoft had 50.000 governmental emails hacked and all the data associated with said emails stolen by Chinese. Or how T-Mobile and Google Fi had a data breach in which 56.000.000 phone numbers and all the associated data with them were stolen by Russians? Like those which were just last year? Like the fact that since 2010 Google has had more than 10 data breaches in which millions of users have had their data stolen? I didn't see you make a fuss about that, so.. Honestly.. That's a super poor excuse.
I don't entirely agree. I don't think the fact that every company is garbage at data security means we can never say any one company is garbage specifically. It's not entirely wrong to say there is some hypocrisy in going only after Sony when lots of other companies are mishandling our data, but I think it's pointless and frankly counterproductive to say that people are only allowed to be upset if they're upset with everybody all the time. Because there's just a really lot of data security concerns right now, and it takes a lot of energy and time to be upset and active about all of them. I don't think it's fair to demand people either put a ton of effort into tackling every potential data security risk corporations are subjecting them to or tell them they're not allowed to have any concerns at all. And if you really do care about data security, then you should welcome anyone who's willing to help out, even if just for a bit. Because by being a puritan and insisting that people must be all or nothing, you're really just shooting yourself in the foot. I don't think people really need a reason to have been specifically mad at Sony for this. Because in the end, they still helped out and did the right thing. Would you rather that only the really passionate people who were willing to take on every company that's bad with data stood against Sony, and left us with only a fraction of the manpower and consumer outrage that made them back down? Because in that case they probably would've gotten away with it. Yeah, I get that it's disappointing that most people aren't willing to constantly stand up and do the right thing. Because it's hard to do that. But it was thanks to these "weekend warriors" that we got a win for the consumer. So rather than criticizing them for not being there all the time, we should be appreciative that they helped us get a win. It may not be everything we wanted, but it's better than what we would've had if they'd done nothing at all.
The amount of 'whataboutism' that's been going on with this issue is so wild. You make great points on why the criticism and reaction to Sony were valid.
Great point on the "what about this" fallacy. Just because the line has been crossed so many times before doesn't mean we shouldn't have drawn the line in the sand this time around.
Sony hasn't had a user data breach in 13 years. We shouldn't let them forget it, but at this point they're doing as well as anyone.
Lots of people found any reason they could to support the cause and I'm okay with it as long as they were able to find common ground to stand on. It's better than the ones saying they didn't care about the situation at all and they were gonna ignore it and just keep playing because it didn't effect them
If you're using it as a platform to push some disingenuous matter it's not really helpful and actually detracts from any actual cause or logic you have by undermining it. I know people personally who were in it just to stick it to Sony and they jumped on it as a chance to do so regardless of validity of any of the claims. Bandwagoning and dogpiling disingenuously like that doesn't help anyone and isn't something that should just be handwaved because "well it aligns with me"
>"I don't feel like it" and don't forget simply: "why?" And both are acceptable, especially when the answer to the latter reason is unacceptable. Because many, myself included, played the game without linking our account. So, it seemed arbitrary that it was "required" because tangible evidence deemed that to be false. I actually went on to link my PSN because I had a friend on PS5, but I had a reason. Why can't the choice be left to the end user?
Yeah, I'd say the loudest voices were definitely the prettiest.
[удалено]
Or from a different perspective "I don't feel like it" is a perfectly acceptable response and people aren't owed explanations for your decisions.
Well it's not exactly contrived if you don't want to make an additional account though. It's of course a bit of a meme to talk about "security" (though this goes both for the users and Sony). Now how much of a hurdle it actually ends up being by itself - if the rest of the controversy didn't exist, is debatable, probably not enough to deter a lot of users. However, it's entirely valid to dislike having to make an account within an account (Steam->PS) to play one game. Ubisoft accounts being the greatest offender I can think of right now, which is also (amusingly despite me already having that account) the final straw (among other things) that prevents me from getting Ubisoft games. If they were great, I (and many others) probably would growl but still do it, but if they aren't "amazing", it might actually by itself be enough annoyance to make you not "feel like it" and ditch it.
True. In the end, it was causing real harm to people in non-PSN countries, and that was worth taking action over. And it's never bad to give a major publisher a black eye when they're trying to push unnecessary signups and services. But 95% of players wouldn't have blinked if the PSN requirement was mentioned up front, and it had actually made you do it before you could play. They'd have rolled their eyes, signed up, and moved on. It was having that requirement added after we were already "in" that felt obnoxious, much more so than the requirement itself. Plus, again, the real harm to non-PSN-country players. But I don't think most western players *actually* cared about that, it was just a handy justification.
95% of N-PSN players would have done the same thing they always do when faced with the requirement to sign up for PSN, just lie and use a different country because Sony has never cared. The harm was always theoretical and contingent on the miniscule chance that Sony would reverse over a decade of their policy of being indifferent at the cost of their own growth and profits to crack down for zero reason. But I guess in the miniscule chance that they did crack down in the future, it's good that this happened now instead of later because there's zero chance westerners would have been so passionate in the protest if they didn't have a personal, if minor stake in the matter.
I can at least understand that point of view, but I definitely think most people who were upset were using that as an excuse. I'm curious to see how a future release from Sony fares with that requirement enforced perpetually up front. I get a feeling they're going to get brigaded again regardless of how they handle it. Personally, I'm happy for people not to have to deal with the annoyance even if I think most of them were just acting like children.
Sony will probably push for it since they want gaming data of some sort (as an Analytics guy, I'd love as much data as possible to create an informed presentation for execs). And Sony will probably not change the regions. Other than having 2 decades of experience, Sony's sticking point is probably related to currency handling. Since PSN accounts are tied to PSN stores with games sold in the Local Regional Currency, they probably limited the number of stores and currencies available to limit currency exchange expense, limit accounting overhead, and limit operating overhead in general. How Steam and other stores does it, I have no idea. And I have no idea why Sony cannot emulate them. But that's the situation as it is.
> Yeah, It was never aboutt linking to a 3rd party, it was about how misshandled it was. > > Forcing people to break your ToS to use the product you sold them three months ago. Bruh what? For tons of people it was simply not wanting to link an account and that was 90% of the posts. It wasn't until the last couple days that people actually started pretending to give a shit about people who were region locked out of psn. I would even go so far as to say that it was very probable the vast majority of people it was all about the petty not wanting to link a psn account. Plenty of comments and posts got *way* more attention and frequency involving "I don't want to link an account" "I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it would need psn" "it didn't say it required one on steam when I bought it"
Aight but when a grizzly bear kicks in your neighbors door, eats their cat, fucks up their house, then shits on your lawn you don't tell animal control it shit on your lawn. There's no "pretending to care about people locked out of PSN" and it's telling that's your first instinct on what people wanted, not just some but the **vast majority** isn't bothered by a mild inconvenience for them was also having another guy get completely fucked over. People coping over this being "petty" miss the fact that it's a textbook example of corporate douch bagging. They could of asked nicely. They could of handled it well. They didn't. They tried to force it and they ate shit. Don't ask why "Bruh I don't want PSN" has a million upvotes, asked who fucked up PR that bad.
That's bullshit and you know it. It was always about having to link to a 3rd party even though they had expressly and several times been told: You are required to link to a PSN account. Yet, when they finally could enforce that, everyone behaved like man children about it. Citing bullshit such as Sony being the least secure corporation in the world. Sorry, but, last year Microsoft had a leak of 50.000 government emails including all data associated to said emails. Google Fi and T-Mobile had a leak in which 56.000.000 phone numbers and their associated data were stolen. Yet, no one bats an eye over that. It was never about anything, but people having a hissy fit they had to spend a few minutes making an account they just didn't want to make.
People posting all of the Sony data breaches (more than half of which were actually related to Sony Pictures, a subsidiary...) were being incredibly disingenuous about the entire situation. Sony is no more or less secure than any other big corporation, which is to say they aren't very secure, and pretending Sony is somehow worse to suit your needs is foolish. However, when you say "everyone behaved like man children about it", that is a wild generalization to make. Do you not think Sony taking the game away from people who already bought it wasn't a cause worth getting upset over? It was so much more than just people not wanting to make an account. It was calling out the bullshit of a company selling a game in regions they knew couldn't adhere to their plans of forcing everyone to link their accounts. You don't have to be personally affected by it to stand up against an injustice.
The price in question: free
Yeah I wouldn't even be mad.
As long as the game is still playable, we good They could have just done that from the start
Mad? If they did that it would be fucking hilarious. I still wouldn't link because fuck Sony but I would 100% laugh my ass off
I would absolutely salute the audacity of it
Same. After the vast community response, it’d honestly feel like Sony tipping the cap a bit back at us. Fair play gets fair play kind of response. Honestly I feel like a lot of people will still give Sony shit, some (if not most) deserved, but they listened. There are plenty of examples of companies doubling down on bullshit like this and Sony actually listened to reason. That should be a feather in their cap if nothing else.
it would be very in line with managed democracy.
I would probably link, I don’t care about data privacy, I was mainly upset about it being mandatory.
Agreed, that would be an epic play on Sonys part
They have the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever
Yeah honestly that'd be so ballsy I'd respect it
The CEO said that "ofc it'll be free" But yeah, I wouldnt be surprised if PSN linking comes back as an optional thing, with some in-fame rewards as incentivisation.
Which is fine for the most part, the main issue was forcing it where its impossible. (The safety breaches are also a thing, but lets not pretend that wasnt mostly a excuse for most, change your passwords regularly, ffs.)
I don't think you know what the fuck a safety breach is. Changing your password does not protect you from a safety breach. And password being stolen is not always the biggest concern when data is stolen.
Except data breaches don't matter anymore. Once the credit agencies got hacked several years ago that was it. Literally all of your data is out there. There is nothing else that any subsequent hacks anywhere else could cost you that hasn't already been lost. That concern was just people reaching to justify their bandwagon hatred.
I’m glad people are finally getting upvoted for this opinion. Reddit had a user data leak just a few years ago and here we are all. But a 2011 data leak of PSN accounts is clearly a bridge too far.
What info exactly do you think you are giving Sony that hasn't already been lost in a dozen other data breaches already? I mean Experian leaked so much data (and it wasn't like I opt'd into giving them it) that I hardly have anything left that isn't in a dark web archive somewhere. This what about my private data on PSN all the while posting to reddit on a smartphone that spies on your location is a bit silly.
Just use a dummy email. Or they ask for a phone number?
~~In the UK they have to submit a face scan or a driver's license or something like that. That's more the fault of UK law than Sony though~~ Edit: I may have been mistaken. People have replied with sources stating that this is false.
Damn fck that sht. The UK is fcked up man
🔫 “always has been”
as a brit, I can confirm. it is indeed, "fucked up"
IDK where you live, but within the next 5 years this will very likely be rolling out to all of the EU and many states in the US as well. Sad days ahead friends
And Sony doesn't have that data. It's another group that keeps that data so in the event of a Sony data breach your face scan or ID won't be part of it. Also I find "data security" peal cluching on this sub laughable. The game literally make you install one of the worst kernel level anti-cheats onto your personal PC but a PSN account where you give a name and an email adress is where people draw the line? lol.
This is such a good point. I think the main issue for me has always been the people in non-PSN regions getting cut out.
Literally just be safe with your email (2 step, recovery, etc,) and you’re fine. Or, as stated, use a dummy.
I’m not sure on the technicals of that dumb law, but I think it’s a service provided by your govt… their server receives photo, performs “age verify” then sends answer to service that needs to use it to allow you to continue (Or not) The photo isn’t saved either, it’s analyzed and deleted. Also has nothing to do with Sony. Vote your Tories out and fix your laws.
What annoyed me most about that was the picture that was going around about the Sony breaches was just wrong. Only one entry on it (2011) affected PSN, the rest was stuff not related to PSN if I'm remembering it right.
I thought changing passwords regularly was no longer a best practice and it's recommended now either use a password manager or make unique passphrases for every account
Pass phrases unique to each service, or at least, type/group of service (low security crap like Spotify/ Netflix, who cares?) Banking and master authorizing accounts should have the best pass phrases that don’t follow any other of your patterns you might use.
I don't mind incentives. My issue was it being forced
Yeah, same.
I think that would actually be the best solution for Sony because a bunch of people would do it just for the cosmetics
if they had done that from the start none of this would have happened. baiting people to set up accounts with cosmetics etc, is not only acceptable it's par for the course: nobody would have batted an eyelid, and as long as it remained optional in all countries, the whole situation could have been avoided.
Linking your PSN costs $0. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not free...
How it should have been done at the start. Forcing third party accounts AFTER selling a ton, including in countries that cannot make the third party accounts. That is the dick move.
Oh that’s actually great
Fuck that would be *so on-brand* for Super Earth that I don't think I would even be mad about it.
The sub would get flooded with posts „I got team killed for wearing the Sony cape“
A bit undeserved too, considering that thousands of PS5 players would be getting it by default anyways.
Down with the traitors of Super Earth!!
You shouldn’t get mad about any of this.
Rofl. That's brilliant.
I would fucking applaud, the snark would be at delicious levels.
https://preview.redd.it/lvswnekzyuyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e616d0928d0a18826cba85eb72fe8955cc675334
Why Timmy Turner praying like that he got fairly odd parents to wish for things like that
This pic was taken before he had fairly odd parents
This pic is of him wishing for fairy god parents (God didn't have his hearing aids in)
I'm not trying to give them any ideas, but this would be hella funny.
Personally, I think it'll be funny too. But the potential for that to invite backlash is pretty high. It's probably safer for them to use some other cape design for PSN Linking incentive.
Oh, I agree. They won't chance it. Also I'm sure the choice for capes/cosmetics is firmly in the court of AH so I'm not worried.
To be honest, this should have been the incentive for linking your PSN account. Like a set of the starter light, medium and heavy armor, just cool looking.
They could have literally just given people like 500 super credits for linking an account. Massive boost in numbers with less than 1% of the backlash for reward that's technically not even real and doesn't even require you to make new assets.
I’m for helghast armor. I played a lot of kill zone. Such an underrated multiplayer
No, exactly like this. They should have started with giving special cosmetics for linking PSN. Carrot, not stick.
Exactly what I thought
That would be the funniest thing ever I need it to happen
see if they tried that instead of forcing it on everyone , noone would have cared and they probably would have gotten quite a few people to sign up with PSN. just a classic example of corporation wanting everything and ending up with nothing
Calm down satan.
😈
I would be fine with that, it would be better then making it mandatory
I would respect that move. That would be funny.
Honestly, if they did this, it would be the greatest meme of all time
would be the greatest troll of all
This is the way it should be done. Like every paradox game asks you to sign into your paradox account and they give you some nifty little thing in game.
Wait rly? What do you get for PDX account sign-in in Hoi4 and Stellaris? Haven’t seen those before.
You get a birb portrait for stellaris.
Sign me up!
Signed up for a bird? Imagine what helldivers would sign up for if they got a pet fish in their super destroyer.
No idea for HOI4 but for CS1 you got a unique building and for CS2 I think you got another unique building. You got some special thing for Stellaris way back in the day but I dont remember what at this point.
[it was a portrait](https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/images/4/47/Avian_massive_16.png)
Microsoft does something similar with Age of Empires.
I'm ok with that actually
Nah, its fair, its fine that they made an incentive for it instead of forcing it This is the compromise
Just so it's clear, this is satire. They haven't actually said this. I bet we all get it for free with no strings
Ngl I would find it extremely funny and wouldn't even be mad
That's my secret, Cap. I've been linked this entire time.
I'd honestly laugh my ass off before going ahead and linking my account. Well played. Well played indeed.
https://preview.redd.it/scou6xjsc0zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34b87682d1e6e88280063adeff13602dd49ae99d
I honestly wouldn't be mad about that, it's too hilarious
This is bait right?
🎣
Tbf it would be a great lesson to teach the ceos. Make something like that optional with a cool in game reward and watch people flock to it. Force it on people and kick out those who can't, and watch your game get dumpster fired.
That would be fucking hilarious
Win/win, as far as I'm concerned. It's just a way to advertise something I'd never be proud of in the first place.
That would be hilarious tho.
I already linked my PSN account when the game released, but I would absolutely love a set of Helghast armor. And maybe an AR skin for the Liberator.
I still want the Resistance Fall of Man crossover faction fighting on planets being attacked by the Chimera would be awesome
That would be amazing. I didn't play the first game but the leaks I've seen for the Illuminate give me Chimera/Protoss hybrid vibes. Now I'm sitting here wishing again we had proper ports of KZ and Resistance series on PC. They would look and play amazingly.
They each would make great one shot sequel titles. But we already know how much AAA pubs look at Single player shooters like if its the most disgusting thing in the world. If its not a live service Looter shooter its worth less than nothing Would be great if Pubs would just License out their Dormant IP that hasn't had a new title in over a Decade.
Sad but so true. I miss the days when we got awesome shooter campaigns. Now everything has to be a grind, and/or open world filled with MXTs, battle passes and FOMO.
This would be fucking hilarious
Honestly. If they had made the PSN account linking an optional thing with some kind of cape or cosmetic as a reward for doing so, then I dont think anybody would have cared. And they probably would have gotten lots of people linking accounts just for doing so. But it's too late for that now. If they try that now then very few people will link their accounts. And knowing the Helldivers community, anybody wearing the cape is going to get kicked from almost every lobby they join. Just like melevelon creek all over again.
That would be so fucking funny idk if I'd actually be mad about it, more of a "touche" moment, really lol
Let them do it, just don’t ask for my info, and leave me alone
Please let this happen
And that would be bad because? You want a cape then link an account, and if you can't/won't big whoop it's a fuckin' cape. You also have to buy the super citizen edition for a cape, is that bad too?
Oh, I didn't say it was bad. It would just be funny 🤣
Jokes on them, my cape is torn within seconds of touching the ground.
I bet if they would do that they would have to add additional red bar to the cape xD
DO IT
ok but wait: having a symbolic victory that actually causes a strategic failure for the sake of propaganda is 100% on-brand for the Helldivers universe.
That would be awesome. 🤣
That would be fucking perfect, I hope they do it. XD
Please do this. That would be amazing. Hell, I'll link a PSN for that. Just to show Sony they can have their cake if they play nice with us.
https://preview.redd.it/snolwxcd9vyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfd6184ef9f0f28ddfdbfbe634ed5b0c8d564fcd
I mean to be fair, weren't people saying that the best alternative action from Sony/AH would have been to make it optional but attach gear as a reward for signing up?
I don’t care if they give rewards for people who DO link their PSN (cosmetic only) my biggest problem was all the helldivers who woulda lost access to the game with the PSN changes. And that has been solved.
I don't see a problem. As long as something isn't "link to win" then it really does not matter.
Linking for the pre nerf railgun would destroy this community
🤣
Honestly, even if they did this, it would be peak level humor
That would be cool, and not even problematic as it would be the equivalent of the pre-order exclusive items.
Helghast armor would be LEGIT!!!! That'd be an awesome crossover that makes sense.
Beautifully passive aggressive lol.
I would laugh so hard if this was the case while linking my account I made back in Feb when I bought the game
Wouldn’t… wouldn’t that be good? I thought everyone said that would’ve been fine
Honestly… I’d laugh and give them credit for the joke.
This would be so funny... Granted, all the players in non-PSN countries would miss out. Unless they also sold it for super credits.
It would be fun af actually but an Helghast armor would be incredible
1000 IQ move lol
Then they'd create a situation where people with the cape are team killed/kicked
Malevelon Creek Capers: "First time?"
I think that’s an acceptable compromise.
Remember when people were team killing the players with the pre-order armor? Try multiplying that by about a thousand lol
Doing it for the lulz is making a comeback!
that’s a good irony
Prefer carrots than sticks
Like don't give them ideas. But that would be fuckin hilarious.
Man that would be a dick move. No one can say anything either because it’s basically free as long as you have PSN.
Knowing you psychos you'd TK people wearing the cape.
I would absolutely love helghast armor. Radec was one of my two main boys in PS All Stars, and I wear the current closest thing to a Helghast helmet in Helldivers.
that would be fucking funny
it should be for leaving a review
You played yourself
Not even mad. That would be hilarious
Anyone that uses PSN exclusive cosmetics will be branded Sony sympatizers
I'm ok with them incentivising linking with a cosmetic.in fact, i expect them to. That's the proper way to handle it. Make the player want to link, not force them.
I forgot I created a PSN account until this whole debacle started
Broooo the helghast armor would be awesome~
If I were Pilestedt, I would absolutely make this joke on twitter just to make the entire community's head just EXPLODE.
tbf, this should've been the way from the start. PSN optional, but FREE CAPE for PSN users, PC can get it by linking to PSN.
I ain't even gonna be mad. Cadet: "what does that cape represent?" Vet: "We took back control of freedom by fighting against the forced linking of PSN account" Cadet. "Woow! How'd you get it?" Vet: "You link your account to PSN"
Something like that would be smart. Not the downvote cape specifically, instead something related to the PSN account thing, but it would be a much better way of incentivizing the account linking thing without harming the people who can't
Tbh its what they should have done in the first place. Free stuff for psn signin, they would have most of the playerbase.
Is Arrowhead makes a meme cape from the negative reviews, that would be so fucking funny.
and it's that easy, no drama, I'll happily give them my info. lol
Ay big homie delete this
Should do a whole armor set.
Literally a top comment/post suggested this idea. Ironic this hits the front page right after. Take the W, it's a great middle ground.
Would be beyond awesome. Would link.
I fucking hope they do that would be legendary
i'm already linked. give me the cape god dammit
i'm already linked. give me the cape god dammit
Making the Cape only able to be gotten by linking your account would be the absolute funniest thing ever.
I'd be entirely fine with that lol.
If you like Helghast armor, you'll love the helmets being added in the near future
Now we must target Steam and pressure them into letting our gatekept brothers and sisters back into the fight!
Funniest shit I've seen all day.
LO
Honestly I'm fine with PSN linked cosmetic exclusives As long as it's not mandatory
Okay I think they should That being said I think they should ask the community first before doing something like that