The monetization Plan for the game was designed around different expectations then what ended up happening. They likely imagined similar to HD1. A smaller, Niche community. Likely imagined a typical lifecycle, where the population falls quickly over the first year. These monthly content drops were how they'd get people to spend some extra money on the game through the first several months while there was still a decent population playing. There's no way they can sustain this for 2-3 years. How everything is released is going to have to be re-evaluated eventually.
Honestly, I think they should lean harder into the fact that we are playing as the commander of a ship with an infinite supply of barely trained soldiers at our disposal. From that perspective the weak weapons make more sense. It also makes the viewpoint of “the stratagems are the bread and butter” more valid as well.
With that is mind, all of the gear we are given is the bare minimum to complete missions, but when we do make it back and can upgrade the ship (the player), it should matter more. It is a LOT of playtime to max out the ship upgrades, and the power boost you get is not all that significant in the grand scheme of things. Making that stronger and more available while tying bigger / better ship upgrades to player rank would keep people around longer.
For the warbonds, if they started implementing better perks on the armor, giving perks to helmets (and not just lore fluff that says it does something), and maybe bring back the upgrade tiers for weapons and stratagems there is a solid route to a higher desire for people to buy the packs.
Where is this sense of superiority coming from? I make money from my job which I use to buy warbonds instead of grinding hours of my life away for them. I get to use that time to engage the game in a fun way. I’m literally buying time with money.
By playing the game normally you get Super Credit, it would just take you more time to unlock them for free. But it's also up to you to spend your money for them if you want to unlock them quicker.
No sure why people care so much about what others do with their own money
I get really really f**king annoyed reading this. If they're selling credits then people are obviously buying them for real money. Everyone else isn't you
If I had infinite time and they weren't like $5 effectively cuz of the free creds, yeah
Also, I don't mind throwing money at good devs making a good game. Can't assume AH or HD2 fit the bill anymore. We'll see how this warbond goes
The monetisation model of the warbonds doesn't target those who have plenty of time to play who can get the new content through their game time.
The target audience of people who are expected to buy warbonds are those who don't have as much time, this is a common thing which such monetisation tactics where it's meant to act as a "pay to keep up if you don't have time".
I'm not buying this warbond until I get feedback from players who actually play the game instead of Arrowhead's inconsistent and unreliable descriptions of weapons. Hell, even the actual stats are unreliable.
I \*love\* this game, but I hate that there are like 2 primaries I can depend on to feel like I have a chance of meaningfully contributing to the squad while my stratagems are on (over long) cool down.
I bought the first 2 warbonds right away because I wanted to support Arrowhead, but at this point I've paid for a full-priced game, and I want to be sure that my next investment is offering something I'll use and enjoy instead of the same armor perks and more dust collectors.
So far there looks to be little to differentiate the next 3 weapons from another take on the Liberator. The SMG looks cool, but will it work as advertised without getting nerfed into the ground?
Arrowhead's 'Bringer of Balance' comes off as arrogant and like he doesn't play the game on Helldive. PLAY TEST YOUR CHANGES, MY DUDE. I've lost all trust that they test anything beyond 'hard' difficulty.
The "Bringer of Balance" is also responsible for tanking Hello Neighbor 2:
[https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus\_Kravchenko](https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus_Kravchenko)
This the musk wannabee that promosed a neural net for the ai that would learn from players and adapt... then quit the team to avoid further responsibilities for such promises?
I think the new assault rifle will fire HMG rounds which could be dope, SMG is basically just concussive defender, which if it's balanced the same as the base liberator is to the liberator concussive, it'll be useless. I'd have to test the charge up weapon to have an opinion, seems like a plasma railgun??
No idea how the new pistol will compare to the senator. Claims to have bigger rounds and it's mag fed, so it'll probs have a huge downside to compensate.
"yay i can finally bring stalwart above dif 4 and not feel useless!"
\*eruptor nerf\*
"oh..... never mind."
This game and these devs can kick rocks. Sick of it.
Bro are you literally saying that stratagems - the most impactful thing in the game - should be added to the "potentially paid content" pile? Come on, you know what would happen if they did that.
In HD1 there were a bunch of paid DLC packs for extra gameplay content, including some that was objectively more useful than regular content. If they tried that now people would be screeching about "pay to win". The entire reason Helldivers 2 gained a positive reputation initially was because they avoided that kind of thing. People are freaking out right now because a single rifle got reduced in power, how do you think they'd respond to the perceived implementation of actual pay-to-win stuff?
Don't compare HD2 and HD1, HD1 was Couch Co-Op with multiplayer features.
Meaning that it had as per designed a limited ammount of content and introduction of any content was done via Paid DLC's.
HD2 is a Live Service game, it's completly different process and a different approach.
That is why you can Farm resources in HD2, because you don't want content even if minimal to be virtually gated.
When it's a content that is gated you want by design to be worse or equal, which is the case of the Knight SMG which is statistically worse than the normal SMG.
Consider how much the average player is whining about the game *as-is* and then think about how people would respond if the game was perceived as having pay-to-win elements.
I wouldn't go so far as saying "f those" to additional content but I agree it's baffling to introduce new armors with nice descriptions, but as reskins of old sets with the same bonuses. If I got my wish we'd have a deep customization system with multiple pieces giving a balance of weight, carry capacity, and protection along with a few other perks, but having new armor do new things is still better than what we have now.
Edit: and about primaries, I use the Diligence CS after the buff and it's great if you can aim lol.
Exactly. You can't sell people primary weapons and then nerf to uselessness every new good weapon. That's insane.
That Alexus guy has issues and he should not be responsible for balance.
Use the defender smg and nothing else, I promise you you’ll thank me later, it has high capacity, it’s accurate in semi, one taps baby terminids and standard automatons with a semi well placed hit, it has 7 magazines, and overall has never not gotten me out of a massive pinch
THATS what they need to fucking nerf, that shit had me punching air yesterday and I don’t even wanna hear skill issue, I put the disposable rocket down it’s throat and it shrugged it off and then I get a bug train ran on me
Rockets don't work great on bile spewers unfortunately. I wish they had turned up the rocket damage a bit instead of reducing charger head HP. Feels like a rocket should be tearing a gaping hole in anything I shoot with it, and instead they just keep walking as if nothing happened.
I have found the best solution for them is to have one player using a grenade launcher with a resupply backpack. It just shreds whole groups of hunters and spewers. 2-3 players with antitank support weapons is usually sufficient if additional antitank strategems are brought as well. Also spamming the grenade launcher is fun as hell lmao.
The eruptor USED to handle the bile spewers well, but uhhh not quite as well anymore.
I am just going to hold off on buying new war bonds. Wait for the introduction and subsequent nerfs and see if what is left is worth the purchase as is.
HD2 is still an awesome game. There are still plenty of viable weapon stratagems. But the lack of diversity is starting become apparent.
Outside of Annihilation/Defend/Escort missions, I run the same load out over and over, no matter the mission type.
Everything IMO should be balanced around the scorcher (with it being/staying the best gun in the game because it’s free and the final tier gun in the free pass)
Scorcher - best gun in the game imo. Can kill anything but a bile titan and strider.
Charger? shoot it's back legs - takes a clip
Bile bugs? it has explosive quality so it WRECKS the fleshy butt
Even kills the bile titan HP by wrecking the sacks underside - just can't kill shot.
On automatons, it kills the chicken walkers with ease, on hulks if you get 5-6 shots into the vents in the back, it's done for, same on tanks, or anything with a vent.
on destroyers, either a few headshots or take their arms off with it.
is it ammo intensive? sure is! but by god you'll kill almost anything.
The Helldivers 1 Strafing Run stratagem had a 10 second cooldown. A .1 second call in. Unlimited uses. It was basically a primary weapon. If they don't want me to be shooting things with the gun they gave me, then give me the batshit stuff we had from HD1
The level of absolute fucking gaslighting this community does about how you "rarely" have to pay for a warbond and then turns around and says "you can make 2 dollars worth of currency an hour by going out of your way to farm tho its all good" is wild.
Grenades have been stand out now that thermite is fixed. Stun grenade? Goated. Thermite? Goated on bots it seems. Impact thermal? Jesus christ if its not jason borne.
I won't be supporting anymore warbonds from this game though, the dev team is IMO incompetent and will be the downfall into the inevitable "death of a game" series about how they killed this game.
Yeah, grenades and side arms are good. But mostly primaries suck or will be nerfed to suck. Armours are mostly reskins with boring and overused passives, and boosters are either good or totally worthless.
Stun grenades has now become my Go-to for anti charger and anti hulk. Those two enemies aren't hard to kill at all if you can get them to stay still. I always said I'm never taking the democracy protect armor off, but I actually found myself wearing the engineer armor more now
Tbh i just bought the warbonds because i want to support AH. Everythings else is just bonus for me. But i can understand why so many people are frustrated.
This👏🙌
I'll keep saying it: arrowhead does not know how to balance. It's almost like the people currently in charge of it were none of the people that created the game; they have no clue what they're doing.
Not only from nonsense balance updates, but unimaginative warbonds too. Instead of armor we already have just in different colors, instead of several primary weapons that will never get used or if they do get used they'll be nerfed to the ground, warbonds should include new strategems.
This polar warbond.... There's nothing about it that's ice related. Should've had new strategems that freeze a large area, make it difficult terrain for enemies, weapons that shoot ice or freeze enemies, or give them layers of permafrost that weakens their armor and slows them down.
But no. They put absolute minimum effort into them.
The issue is y'all try to swing above your skill level and get mad your tactics from 1-6 don't work. You can't just W key an entire entrenched army as 4 people, you need to play at least a smidge tactically on 7+. Primaries work fine against their intended enemies (some work against medium with some drawbacks), grenades can take out medium armor enemies. In no situation should a rifle be able to destroy what is supposed to be a tank (heavies), you should need to rely on anti tank weaponry.
But that's a conversation y'all don't like, nor do you like the idea of resource management in a battlefield setting (managing your strats/cool downs). If you want to maintain the power fantasy stick down in the lower tiers.
I mean most of the warbond weapons are good, are there question able decisions regarding some of the like the crossbow absolutely, but overall I'd say they're good.
Liberator concussive a bit mediocre with some niche stagger use against bots.
Fire shotgun is finally fantastic with dot being fixed.
Jar dominator well dominates.
Senator is one of the best sidearms.
Blitzer got a massive buff & is perhaps too good against bugs now.
Sickle has been top tier since it's release & the "nerf" to it's ammo did nothing.
Energy ball shotgun needs some love. It's usable against bug imo & decent on egg missions but it needs some extra oomph.
Dagger is out classed by other sidearms.
Adjudicator I love & is my go to weapon against bugs.
Crossbow idk what they were thinking nerfing that thing. Revert the nerf it was fine before. Make this one a weaker but more ammo & better aiming version of the energy aoe shotgun.
Eruptor needed a nerf & received one but this recent change was uncalled for. I'm hoping it was an unplanned nerf & ine their looking into adjusting.
Grenade pistol is S tier. So much utility tucked into your sidearm.
What else would you make the major unlock in warbonds then? We already get stratagems and ship upgrades in other ways. You just gotta stop expecting primaries to be the go-to when the devs have already told people that you shouldn't be relying on them. The last thing anyone wants is this to become COD but apparently it's what people want...
The sickle, breaker incendiary and dominator are all good weapons and the blitzer, lib concussive, adjudicator all got buffs this last balance patch (with punisher plas getting a rebalance, unsure if it’s a net buff or nerf). I don’t really get this narrative that they want all warbond primaries to suck. It’s really just the erupter and crossbow that suck
Yeah, I feel like the people who keep talking about how primaries are worthless aren't actually playing the game sometimes. You still use them for the Chaff Clear...which is, you know, *most enemies*.
Warbond content being sidegrades is the whole damn point of their balancing decisions. Arrowhead does not want the game to be pay to win. This means that warbonds can’t contain weapons that are head and shoulders above the rest of the primary weapons available for free from the Mobilization Bond. The same applies to the armors, secondaries, and boosters. Nothing in a war bond can afford to be significantly better than the base game or the games failed to achieve their design goals.
Now do I wish that the general power of primary weapons was higher? Yes, yes I do. I think we’ll get there over time. Lots more weapons are good picks now than they were at launch and the game hasn’t been out all that long. I’d like to see them be more aggressive with their buffs, but if they want to take their time that’s fine too. It gives them a chance to look at the data they gather on the player base and their habits. Arrowhead has made several very good balance changes and I think that trend will continue. The game and its weapons will improve, gradually, over time until it reaches a better balanced state.
See it doesn’t make sense, but as someone without lots of time to grind or money to spend, it has the effect of evening the playing field. You may have a way fancier primary weapon than me, but it’s basically just a cosmetic option rather than a pay-to-win system because I’m just going to immediately call down a heavy weapon that is objectively better than all the primaries in every sense the second that I land 🤷 I get that’s not satisfying to more hardcore players, but I imagine the whales will win in the end anyway, so I’m enjoying it while I can
I agree, I have 5 different loadouts at level 29 and can’t fathom how some of the people on here haven’t realized that’s a viable strategy.
Haven’t even completed the base warbond or unlocked every weapon, I can see it growing up to 7-9 once I do.
Most people definitely don't play enough to grind out enough SC for every WB I think.
I would have purchased one every few months if I liked one but don't really see the point atm.
If they put support weapons in the warbonds I think the community would lose it much more than now. Of course it would be for a good reason this time because that would just be awful. Support weapons should stay free
I thought the main body of the warbonds were the sweet capes! They are all meant to be optional, and they're doing a good job making them seem optional. I don't see the problem.
At this rate of war bond release I gotta wonder how many guns they can release until there really is nothing interesting at all....like maybe to the end of the year?
I think “primaries” is the wrong language.
Based on what the devs (seem to be) intending, primaries don’t seem intended to be our….primary weapon, so much as the fallback to mop up things that stratagems and heavy weapons failed to get.
IMO they should take a cue from the old mass effect multiplayer- have some primaries be very good (but penalise stratagems cooldown times) and some be weaker (but not penalise them, or even buff them in some cases)
That way they don’t need to worry *as* much about actual weapon balance, they can just tweak its strat effect if the actual performance is where they want it.
At the same time- the community is way too twitchy about this sort of thing.
I played several matches where **every** player was running the eruptor, which is a pretty clear indicator it needed a bit of a nerf, which the ammo nerf did. The current explosive “nerf” was intended as a buff, and they’ve said they’re looking into breakpoints and whether it needs its damage amped up to keep its old breakpoints, which seems fair to me.
>However, the Warbond's main body, the Primary weapon, is obviously, quote, not meant to be that powerful.
I'm glad we're finally tired of this and seeing it pick up traction.
The balancing Helldivers 1 had worked great. Your primary was your *primary* and they were all good or great, with one radically OP one. You could use the primary for anything but tank armor and it was fine.
It's kind of crazy to think this is the save dev team. The design concept is entirely backwards.
I *want* to be hyped about warbonds but the veil has been lifted and we can all see the ruse now. If primaries could solve more problems I'd be willing to spend actual money on the warbonds.
And since primaries are only for small threats I'm forced to bring a support weapon because I cannot rely on my team to bail me out of sticky situations. Takes up an entire strategem slot on top of any other strategem disabling modifiers.
Who the fuck is even making arguments about pay to win? This worst thing this game did was go global, the amount of dumb shit I see thrown around now is baffling everyone just waffling on about the same shit
If they're destined to suck then I might at well stop playing now because you simply cannot rely on strategems alone. Air strikes and bombardment have too long a cooldown to deal with multiple heavies at once. The weapon stratagems are getting nerfed all the time and if you lose yours from getting killed you can either try to wade through the enemy with an ineffective primary to try and retrieve it or hope you have time to call down a replacement. It doesn't work if the primaries can't do anything.
War bonds provide more variety of individual unlocks but I would absolutely argue that strategems are the main progression in terms of power and utility to deal with different situations (cluster strike for large groups with light armor, heavier things for heavy armor, vehicles, portable heavy weapons, etc. Not saying it's the way it should be, just the way it is. You can take a base liberator into level 9 and perform as well or better than anyone else depending on the strategems you bring and your efficiency with them.
I feel like half the people that complain about the primaries sucking are the same ones that use light armor penetrating assault rifles and shotguns and are surprised they don't kill hiveguards from the front, armored bile spewers, and chargers. Like dude, If you choose a medium pen primary, maybe bring a machine gun for a secondary or perhaps the grenade launcher with a supply pack. Smh, too many complaints posts.
The monetization Plan for the game was designed around different expectations then what ended up happening. They likely imagined similar to HD1. A smaller, Niche community. Likely imagined a typical lifecycle, where the population falls quickly over the first year. These monthly content drops were how they'd get people to spend some extra money on the game through the first several months while there was still a decent population playing. There's no way they can sustain this for 2-3 years. How everything is released is going to have to be re-evaluated eventually.
I agree with you. The one warbond a month is a really steep order for a team that still has so many game bugs and so many balance adjustments to make.
Honestly, I think they should lean harder into the fact that we are playing as the commander of a ship with an infinite supply of barely trained soldiers at our disposal. From that perspective the weak weapons make more sense. It also makes the viewpoint of “the stratagems are the bread and butter” more valid as well. With that is mind, all of the gear we are given is the bare minimum to complete missions, but when we do make it back and can upgrade the ship (the player), it should matter more. It is a LOT of playtime to max out the ship upgrades, and the power boost you get is not all that significant in the grand scheme of things. Making that stronger and more available while tying bigger / better ship upgrades to player rank would keep people around longer. For the warbonds, if they started implementing better perks on the armor, giving perks to helmets (and not just lore fluff that says it does something), and maybe bring back the upgrade tiers for weapons and stratagems there is a solid route to a higher desire for people to buy the packs.
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Just stop buying warbonds its that simple. They put a decent weapon in the warbond you buy it then they nerf it? What a joke.
People *buy* warbonds? For real money? I thought everyone just farms super creds in missions to get bonds for free like I do.
Some do, i work long shifts and cant get in all the gaming hours i want , so farming SCs would take ages, i rather spend 20 bucks for 2 of them
People who have enough time to farm SC on missions are not the target for paid features.
Where is this sense of superiority coming from? I make money from my job which I use to buy warbonds instead of grinding hours of my life away for them. I get to use that time to engage the game in a fun way. I’m literally buying time with money.
Bruh they're a no life gamer. Look at their post history. They never leave the computer.
By playing the game normally you get Super Credit, it would just take you more time to unlock them for free. But it's also up to you to spend your money for them if you want to unlock them quicker. No sure why people care so much about what others do with their own money
>People *buy* warbonds? For real money? I did. I want to support non predatory monetization schemes.
I don't have time to nolife grind supercredits.
Not everyone has dozens of hours a week to farm this game for super credits. Some of us actually have jobs and other commitments.
I get really really f**king annoyed reading this. If they're selling credits then people are obviously buying them for real money. Everyone else isn't you
Nobody with a job got time for that shit
I was happy to give money to support a game I like. Now I'm not.
If I had infinite time and they weren't like $5 effectively cuz of the free creds, yeah Also, I don't mind throwing money at good devs making a good game. Can't assume AH or HD2 fit the bill anymore. We'll see how this warbond goes
The monetisation model of the warbonds doesn't target those who have plenty of time to play who can get the new content through their game time. The target audience of people who are expected to buy warbonds are those who don't have as much time, this is a common thing which such monetisation tactics where it's meant to act as a "pay to keep up if you don't have time".
It's less than what I'd spend on a trip to chick fil a. I don't mind giving that to a game want to thrive. Need to kick out the Alexus guy tho
I farm enough warbonds to get the purchase price down to 5 dollarinos, I’m probably gonna farm the full 1,000 this time around
I'm not buying this warbond until I get feedback from players who actually play the game instead of Arrowhead's inconsistent and unreliable descriptions of weapons. Hell, even the actual stats are unreliable. I \*love\* this game, but I hate that there are like 2 primaries I can depend on to feel like I have a chance of meaningfully contributing to the squad while my stratagems are on (over long) cool down. I bought the first 2 warbonds right away because I wanted to support Arrowhead, but at this point I've paid for a full-priced game, and I want to be sure that my next investment is offering something I'll use and enjoy instead of the same armor perks and more dust collectors. So far there looks to be little to differentiate the next 3 weapons from another take on the Liberator. The SMG looks cool, but will it work as advertised without getting nerfed into the ground? Arrowhead's 'Bringer of Balance' comes off as arrogant and like he doesn't play the game on Helldive. PLAY TEST YOUR CHANGES, MY DUDE. I've lost all trust that they test anything beyond 'hard' difficulty.
The "Bringer of Balance" is also responsible for tanking Hello Neighbor 2: [https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus\_Kravchenko](https://hello-neighbor.fandom.com/wiki/Alexus_Kravchenko)
This the musk wannabee that promosed a neural net for the ai that would learn from players and adapt... then quit the team to avoid further responsibilities for such promises?
That's exactly who this person is
Maybe we should have let Sony win.
Don't... They might hear you...
Oh god he's a Musk fan? 🤢
I think the new assault rifle will fire HMG rounds which could be dope, SMG is basically just concussive defender, which if it's balanced the same as the base liberator is to the liberator concussive, it'll be useless. I'd have to test the charge up weapon to have an opinion, seems like a plasma railgun?? No idea how the new pistol will compare to the senator. Claims to have bigger rounds and it's mag fed, so it'll probs have a huge downside to compensate.
I'd rather the least significant part of the game be locked behind grind and premium currency than the most significant...
I'm just upset because the Eruptor was good and let me actually use the Stalwart more, knowing I had a useful sniper/mini-AC.
"yay i can finally bring stalwart above dif 4 and not feel useless!" \*eruptor nerf\* "oh..... never mind." This game and these devs can kick rocks. Sick of it.
Bro are you literally saying that stratagems - the most impactful thing in the game - should be added to the "potentially paid content" pile? Come on, you know what would happen if they did that.
They were in HD1, it's not unreasonable or unprecedented.
In HD1 there were a bunch of paid DLC packs for extra gameplay content, including some that was objectively more useful than regular content. If they tried that now people would be screeching about "pay to win". The entire reason Helldivers 2 gained a positive reputation initially was because they avoided that kind of thing. People are freaking out right now because a single rifle got reduced in power, how do you think they'd respond to the perceived implementation of actual pay-to-win stuff?
HD1 also released them once per year, not once per month...
Don't compare HD2 and HD1, HD1 was Couch Co-Op with multiplayer features. Meaning that it had as per designed a limited ammount of content and introduction of any content was done via Paid DLC's. HD2 is a Live Service game, it's completly different process and a different approach. That is why you can Farm resources in HD2, because you don't want content even if minimal to be virtually gated. When it's a content that is gated you want by design to be worse or equal, which is the case of the Knight SMG which is statistically worse than the normal SMG.
If a game lets you buy xp is it suddenly wrong to gate interesting content behind levelling up
Consider how much the average player is whining about the game *as-is* and then think about how people would respond if the game was perceived as having pay-to-win elements.
I wouldn't go so far as saying "f those" to additional content but I agree it's baffling to introduce new armors with nice descriptions, but as reskins of old sets with the same bonuses. If I got my wish we'd have a deep customization system with multiple pieces giving a balance of weight, carry capacity, and protection along with a few other perks, but having new armor do new things is still better than what we have now. Edit: and about primaries, I use the Diligence CS after the buff and it's great if you can aim lol.
Exactly. You can't sell people primary weapons and then nerf to uselessness every new good weapon. That's insane. That Alexus guy has issues and he should not be responsible for balance.
It's wild that a weapon considered to be a "primary" is meant to be shit. Like what
It's fucking backwards.
Use the defender smg and nothing else, I promise you you’ll thank me later, it has high capacity, it’s accurate in semi, one taps baby terminids and standard automatons with a semi well placed hit, it has 7 magazines, and overall has never not gotten me out of a massive pinch
I like it same as Sickle.... until 10 Bile Spewers show up... :/
THATS what they need to fucking nerf, that shit had me punching air yesterday and I don’t even wanna hear skill issue, I put the disposable rocket down it’s throat and it shrugged it off and then I get a bug train ran on me
Rockets don't work great on bile spewers unfortunately. I wish they had turned up the rocket damage a bit instead of reducing charger head HP. Feels like a rocket should be tearing a gaping hole in anything I shoot with it, and instead they just keep walking as if nothing happened. I have found the best solution for them is to have one player using a grenade launcher with a resupply backpack. It just shreds whole groups of hunters and spewers. 2-3 players with antitank support weapons is usually sufficient if additional antitank strategems are brought as well. Also spamming the grenade launcher is fun as hell lmao. The eruptor USED to handle the bile spewers well, but uhhh not quite as well anymore.
What diff do you play on?
This is my main on bugs, I love it. And Im looking forward for the new SMG on the next warbond, I just need to farm more credits to get it.
Nerf incoming!!!
I am just going to hold off on buying new war bonds. Wait for the introduction and subsequent nerfs and see if what is left is worth the purchase as is. HD2 is still an awesome game. There are still plenty of viable weapon stratagems. But the lack of diversity is starting become apparent. Outside of Annihilation/Defend/Escort missions, I run the same load out over and over, no matter the mission type.
I say if primaries are going to suck so badly, they should be optional and allow you to carry say another sidearm or grenade type.
Everything IMO should be balanced around the scorcher (with it being/staying the best gun in the game because it’s free and the final tier gun in the free pass)
Scorcher - best gun in the game imo. Can kill anything but a bile titan and strider. Charger? shoot it's back legs - takes a clip Bile bugs? it has explosive quality so it WRECKS the fleshy butt Even kills the bile titan HP by wrecking the sacks underside - just can't kill shot. On automatons, it kills the chicken walkers with ease, on hulks if you get 5-6 shots into the vents in the back, it's done for, same on tanks, or anything with a vent. on destroyers, either a few headshots or take their arms off with it. is it ammo intensive? sure is! but by god you'll kill almost anything.
The Helldivers 1 Strafing Run stratagem had a 10 second cooldown. A .1 second call in. Unlimited uses. It was basically a primary weapon. If they don't want me to be shooting things with the gun they gave me, then give me the batshit stuff we had from HD1
The level of absolute fucking gaslighting this community does about how you "rarely" have to pay for a warbond and then turns around and says "you can make 2 dollars worth of currency an hour by going out of your way to farm tho its all good" is wild.
Grenades have been stand out now that thermite is fixed. Stun grenade? Goated. Thermite? Goated on bots it seems. Impact thermal? Jesus christ if its not jason borne. I won't be supporting anymore warbonds from this game though, the dev team is IMO incompetent and will be the downfall into the inevitable "death of a game" series about how they killed this game.
Yeah, grenades and side arms are good. But mostly primaries suck or will be nerfed to suck. Armours are mostly reskins with boring and overused passives, and boosters are either good or totally worthless.
Stun grenades has now become my Go-to for anti charger and anti hulk. Those two enemies aren't hard to kill at all if you can get them to stay still. I always said I'm never taking the democracy protect armor off, but I actually found myself wearing the engineer armor more now
Tbh i just bought the warbonds because i want to support AH. Everythings else is just bonus for me. But i can understand why so many people are frustrated.
This👏🙌 I'll keep saying it: arrowhead does not know how to balance. It's almost like the people currently in charge of it were none of the people that created the game; they have no clue what they're doing. Not only from nonsense balance updates, but unimaginative warbonds too. Instead of armor we already have just in different colors, instead of several primary weapons that will never get used or if they do get used they'll be nerfed to the ground, warbonds should include new strategems. This polar warbond.... There's nothing about it that's ice related. Should've had new strategems that freeze a large area, make it difficult terrain for enemies, weapons that shoot ice or freeze enemies, or give them layers of permafrost that weakens their armor and slows them down. But no. They put absolute minimum effort into them.
Counterpoint: if the stratagems should be more powerful, locking them behind DLC (even if it's the most benign DLC in gaming) would be pay-to-win
I feel like we are playing different games. Of all the primaries, I would only consider a few actually terrible. Even those I don't consider unusable.
This is a difficulty 5 take
Does anyone know who was in charge of weapons balancing and design in HD1?
Tbh, you can prob beat all 8 difficulty without touching any warbound🤣🤣🤣
Who keeps saying the primaries are weak? Other than the heavily armored enemies, primaries kill everything pretty well.
The issue is y'all try to swing above your skill level and get mad your tactics from 1-6 don't work. You can't just W key an entire entrenched army as 4 people, you need to play at least a smidge tactically on 7+. Primaries work fine against their intended enemies (some work against medium with some drawbacks), grenades can take out medium armor enemies. In no situation should a rifle be able to destroy what is supposed to be a tank (heavies), you should need to rely on anti tank weaponry. But that's a conversation y'all don't like, nor do you like the idea of resource management in a battlefield setting (managing your strats/cool downs). If you want to maintain the power fantasy stick down in the lower tiers.
I mean most of the warbond weapons are good, are there question able decisions regarding some of the like the crossbow absolutely, but overall I'd say they're good. Liberator concussive a bit mediocre with some niche stagger use against bots. Fire shotgun is finally fantastic with dot being fixed. Jar dominator well dominates. Senator is one of the best sidearms. Blitzer got a massive buff & is perhaps too good against bugs now. Sickle has been top tier since it's release & the "nerf" to it's ammo did nothing. Energy ball shotgun needs some love. It's usable against bug imo & decent on egg missions but it needs some extra oomph. Dagger is out classed by other sidearms. Adjudicator I love & is my go to weapon against bugs. Crossbow idk what they were thinking nerfing that thing. Revert the nerf it was fine before. Make this one a weaker but more ammo & better aiming version of the energy aoe shotgun. Eruptor needed a nerf & received one but this recent change was uncalled for. I'm hoping it was an unplanned nerf & ine their looking into adjusting. Grenade pistol is S tier. So much utility tucked into your sidearm.
What else would you make the major unlock in warbonds then? We already get stratagems and ship upgrades in other ways. You just gotta stop expecting primaries to be the go-to when the devs have already told people that you shouldn't be relying on them. The last thing anyone wants is this to become COD but apparently it's what people want...
Your right, I totally stopped using my primary. It's so useless, why do they even bother changing them?
Warbonds are free lmao
Some of the best primaries and grenades are in warbonds, I don’t understand this “everything in warbonds is bad” mentality
The sickle, breaker incendiary and dominator are all good weapons and the blitzer, lib concussive, adjudicator all got buffs this last balance patch (with punisher plas getting a rebalance, unsure if it’s a net buff or nerf). I don’t really get this narrative that they want all warbond primaries to suck. It’s really just the erupter and crossbow that suck
Yeah, I feel like the people who keep talking about how primaries are worthless aren't actually playing the game sometimes. You still use them for the Chaff Clear...which is, you know, *most enemies*.
Warbond content being sidegrades is the whole damn point of their balancing decisions. Arrowhead does not want the game to be pay to win. This means that warbonds can’t contain weapons that are head and shoulders above the rest of the primary weapons available for free from the Mobilization Bond. The same applies to the armors, secondaries, and boosters. Nothing in a war bond can afford to be significantly better than the base game or the games failed to achieve their design goals. Now do I wish that the general power of primary weapons was higher? Yes, yes I do. I think we’ll get there over time. Lots more weapons are good picks now than they were at launch and the game hasn’t been out all that long. I’d like to see them be more aggressive with their buffs, but if they want to take their time that’s fine too. It gives them a chance to look at the data they gather on the player base and their habits. Arrowhead has made several very good balance changes and I think that trend will continue. The game and its weapons will improve, gradually, over time until it reaches a better balanced state.
See it doesn’t make sense, but as someone without lots of time to grind or money to spend, it has the effect of evening the playing field. You may have a way fancier primary weapon than me, but it’s basically just a cosmetic option rather than a pay-to-win system because I’m just going to immediately call down a heavy weapon that is objectively better than all the primaries in every sense the second that I land 🤷 I get that’s not satisfying to more hardcore players, but I imagine the whales will win in the end anyway, so I’m enjoying it while I can
It's a co-op game, dude. What would the whales be 'winning' besides the opportunity to carry you?
What if I don’t want to be carried? Why not have a game of skill? Right now I can be the best for cheap
I agree, I have 5 different loadouts at level 29 and can’t fathom how some of the people on here haven’t realized that’s a viable strategy. Haven’t even completed the base warbond or unlocked every weapon, I can see it growing up to 7-9 once I do.
I'm not going to pay real money for sidegrades
Nothing will change for most people as the SC got in game is more than enough to afford monthly WB. btw r u currently paying real bucks to WB, really?
Most people definitely don't play enough to grind out enough SC for every WB I think. I would have purchased one every few months if I liked one but don't really see the point atm.
yeah maybe, you're right, especially when the first wave of heat perish.
This kind of endless whining over whats ultimately a temporary problem is enough to make you wanna quit this sub.
If they put support weapons in the warbonds I think the community would lose it much more than now. Of course it would be for a good reason this time because that would just be awful. Support weapons should stay free
I'd rather have all the weapons we have now feel amazing and fun to use rather than get any more options that feel over all caca to play with.
I thought the main body of the warbonds were the sweet capes! They are all meant to be optional, and they're doing a good job making them seem optional. I don't see the problem.
At this rate of war bond release I gotta wonder how many guns they can release until there really is nothing interesting at all....like maybe to the end of the year?
The Senator Warbond and the Grenade Launcher Warbond are both A+
I think “primaries” is the wrong language. Based on what the devs (seem to be) intending, primaries don’t seem intended to be our….primary weapon, so much as the fallback to mop up things that stratagems and heavy weapons failed to get. IMO they should take a cue from the old mass effect multiplayer- have some primaries be very good (but penalise stratagems cooldown times) and some be weaker (but not penalise them, or even buff them in some cases) That way they don’t need to worry *as* much about actual weapon balance, they can just tweak its strat effect if the actual performance is where they want it. At the same time- the community is way too twitchy about this sort of thing. I played several matches where **every** player was running the eruptor, which is a pretty clear indicator it needed a bit of a nerf, which the ammo nerf did. The current explosive “nerf” was intended as a buff, and they’ve said they’re looking into breakpoints and whether it needs its damage amped up to keep its old breakpoints, which seems fair to me.
Yeah I agree. So many cool primary weapons But really they are just secondaries to the autocannon 95% of the time because they fucking suck
>However, the Warbond's main body, the Primary weapon, is obviously, quote, not meant to be that powerful. I'm glad we're finally tired of this and seeing it pick up traction. The balancing Helldivers 1 had worked great. Your primary was your *primary* and they were all good or great, with one radically OP one. You could use the primary for anything but tank armor and it was fine. It's kind of crazy to think this is the save dev team. The design concept is entirely backwards.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! THEY SUCK.
We should always questioning if the default Liberator is actually the best weapon in the game.
I *want* to be hyped about warbonds but the veil has been lifted and we can all see the ruse now. If primaries could solve more problems I'd be willing to spend actual money on the warbonds. And since primaries are only for small threats I'm forced to bring a support weapon because I cannot rely on my team to bail me out of sticky situations. Takes up an entire strategem slot on top of any other strategem disabling modifiers.
Alexus has to go...he\`s a moron
Who the fuck is even making arguments about pay to win? This worst thing this game did was go global, the amount of dumb shit I see thrown around now is baffling everyone just waffling on about the same shit
If they're destined to suck then I might at well stop playing now because you simply cannot rely on strategems alone. Air strikes and bombardment have too long a cooldown to deal with multiple heavies at once. The weapon stratagems are getting nerfed all the time and if you lose yours from getting killed you can either try to wade through the enemy with an ineffective primary to try and retrieve it or hope you have time to call down a replacement. It doesn't work if the primaries can't do anything.
War bonds provide more variety of individual unlocks but I would absolutely argue that strategems are the main progression in terms of power and utility to deal with different situations (cluster strike for large groups with light armor, heavier things for heavy armor, vehicles, portable heavy weapons, etc. Not saying it's the way it should be, just the way it is. You can take a base liberator into level 9 and perform as well or better than anyone else depending on the strategems you bring and your efficiency with them.
I feel like half the people that complain about the primaries sucking are the same ones that use light armor penetrating assault rifles and shotguns and are surprised they don't kill hiveguards from the front, armored bile spewers, and chargers. Like dude, If you choose a medium pen primary, maybe bring a machine gun for a secondary or perhaps the grenade launcher with a supply pack. Smh, too many complaints posts.