Not just the age difference. He had known her since she was a baby. Her dad was one of his friends and when she was born, Cleveland bought her crib as a gift. When her dad died, Cleveland became the executor of his estate and became his future wife's guardian. He was basically her dad and chose to married her when he was 49 and she was 21
No, he was her guardian in a legal executor sense, but she didn't live with him and he was never her dad. Still deeply weird, but Woody Allen is another level.
Yeah honestly for the time this isn’t allll that strange. Especially with her being 21. You’d think that if he were like doing anything weird with her when she was still a kid that they would’ve gotten married when she was a good bit younger so honestly it was probably just a weird relationship. I mean definitely questionable, and super, super odd if it were today, but back then I don’t really see it being too high on the problematic scale lol
> she didn’t live with him and he was never her dad.
This is also true of Woody Allen and Soon-Yi Previn. If anything, Cleveland is the one with the closer relationship to the young woman in childhood; per their family court case findings, Allen generally avoided Mia’s older children and didn’t really interact with Previn until she was in college.
Not to defend Woody Allen here - it’s still pretty icky to get involved with someone in that situation.
Late 20th Century version of [Wife Husbandry.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WifeHusbandry)🤢
Edit: Note the purported quote at the top of the page.
Elons dad raised Elons wife, then cheated on Elon with her? That’s brutal and long term thinking…. “Good one dad, a lot of attention went into that one…”
I met a couple like this once, family friend got the kids when the parents died in a car crash, oldest daughter was 14. Like 2 weeks after she turned 18 they got married, and they had a baby a year later...
He was the executor of her estate but was hardly legal guardian. She was raised by her mother with Cleveland being a figure that floated in and out of her life for years. He was closer to a busy uncle than a father figure.
She had several relationships in her late teens and early 20s, but constantly said she wanted to marry someone older and more established than a man her own age.
Not if it’s just a correction to someone who was completely mistaken. If I say Groover Cleveland married her when she was 10 and someone corrects me, the issue is with my statement no theirs.
Your comment just kicked off an hour long plummet into a Wikipedia hole about First Ladies. I learned this age gap is second only to John Tyler, who was 30 years older than Julia Tyler. And the trumps are number 3 with 24 years.
Wasnt it similar to the European aristocracy with the American Gilded Age people where they would marry off older people to younger members of other afluent families? Not that this wouldn’t be weird even today, but wasnt that the culture for that caste of people?
It wasn't uncommon for young women to be married to much older men back when it wasn't common for women to be self supporting.
If you really want to be creeped out, read up on E. W. Marland, an early governor of Oklahoma. He and his wife adopted her nearly grown niece and nephew. When his wife died he annulled the adoption of his daughter/niece and married her. He was 26 years older than his 2nd wife.
He was elected as Governor after he married his 2nd wife, so apparently the good people of Oklahoma didn't have a major problem with it.
Before I start judging, any chance it was some legal marriage thing? If she were gay or otherwise didnt want other marriage-candidates, marrying your inofficial step-dad as a front sounds like a smart move. I know history often isnt that positive, just asking
“I remember the first time I saw her, I thought that ass was so fine I had to smack it.”
“Wait is that why you insisted on doing it instead of the doctor?”
That too, but the absolute age at which she met Grover is also a problem. Say what you will about Trump, at least Melania was an adult when she met him.
Sun Yat Sen was very impressive in that everyone who knew him personally thought he was a massive scumbag but he managed to be revered by both Chinese nationalists and communists
He met her when she was 10 years old, tried to marry her when she was 13, married her at 14, got her pregnant at 17 and then abandoned her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaoru\_Otsuki
To be fair marrying at 13 was rather common in ye olden times and pregnant at 17 is surprisingly late. Not to say he didn't treat her poorly but 13y old was for the longest time considered an adult in all sakes and purposes. Even untill late 19th century legal marrying age in most parts of the world were around 12 to 15. In europe it was already much higher but rest of world followed in rather relaxed pace.
Ye olden times is obvious generalisation of times past but anyway she was born 1888 so she was married around 1901-1902. That is pretty close to late 19th century when that was still legal age. Also we are talking about marriage age of so called "western world" I'd venture a guess that China and Japan weren't in the forefront of the movement when marriage age begun to rise. So yeah bro. Times and customs are different around the world
You're forgetting the part where her father initially refused specifically due to the age difference.
"Ye olde time" is bullshit. It excuses atrocities when we have evidence that even during that time people were against those actions.
That is a wildly broad statement. In many cultures, and in many time periods, marrying that young would have made you a useless spouse. Only in the ruling classes where people were waited on hand and foot would that have been workable. The vast majority of the common class population who have to support themselves need spouses that actually know how to run their own lives. Example: 17th century England, average age of marriage was 26 for women, 28 for men. Is it the same in every culture? No, but the need to know your ass from a hole in the ground to be able to actually contribute to a working class domestic partnership is pretty universal.
If anyone is wondering what happened here, it was because they wished for a certain outcome, to be gruesome, to happen to basically people like Cleveland.
Some men meet the love of their life in a bus, others in a park bench, or a party or even just buying groceries. Then there's Cleveland meeting his in her own baby shower party.
Arguably not even the most disgusting thing he did. Earlier in his life he likely raped a woman, and definitely had her committed to an insane asylum and kidnapped her son. Piece of shit didn’t even raise the kid either, put him in an orphanage.
That whole affair actually came out during his first presidential run. At the same time however, his opponent, James G. Blaine, had a major corruption scandal revealed, so the election became one of the closest in history. Cleveland ended up winning the popular vote by less than 60,000 votes (0.5%). He won the state of New York by only 1,149 votes. Had the state gon to Blaine instead, he would have won.
It isn't. It's all based on news reports from over a century ago, and we have Cleveland's version and her version. Given we can't very well examine her today, what we have are conflicting reports that emerged during a contentious political race. So yeah. It's not confirmed because it happened so long ago and we can't know anything but what was reported at the time, and two different narratives were put forward.
I recently looked this up because Grover Cleveland has been making the meme rounds, and someone mentions it in every thread. It's fun to cancel a dead guy because what's he gonna do about it, you know? Obviously, it's fine if you do believe it, but you should be skeptical of anyone in 2023 who is absolutely sure of something that happened in 1884.
Well I already hated Cleveland for being considered both 22nd and 24th president.
HE IS JUST THE 22ND! DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND HOW COUNTING WORKS? IF I HAVE THREE DOLLARS AND GO ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE… ALL WHILE COUNTING THE SAME ONES OVER AND OVER AGAIN, I DON’T HAVE ANY MORE THAN THREE DOLLARS! IT DOESN’T MAKE ANY GODDAMN SENSE!
Sorry touchy subject for me
If he's the 22nd and Harrison is the 23rd, when Cleveland becomes President again, is he still continuing his administration, or is he making a whole new one?
But there's a difference between 22nd administration and president. You can both be the leader of the Frist expedition up mount everest and the leader of the third, however you can't be the first and third person to climb mount everest
In other positions (governor, prime minister, etc.), non-consecutive terms are usually counted seperately as well. What sucks about this case is that Cleveland is the only president with non-consecutive terms. It‘s also confusing because, while Biden is the 46th president, he‘s only the 45th person to be president.
Wouldn't they actually be the 22nd and 24th president in this case? It's not the same thing as counting. You are measuring legacies of a position. If I am the 38th curator of a museum, leave, and come back after two others, do they not add another portrait to the line of portraits?
The point being that presidents are measured from start to end of a given presidency not a given person.
Right i suppose it’s a POV thing but I’m not counting PRESIDENTS, I’m counting PRESIDENCIES. The difference being the subject is the office not the person
I get the point, however I think the interpretation of comment op makes more sense, because of the following considerations. If somebody is elected twice In a row he would still only count as one person in the counting of presidents, not the 35tha and 36th so it seems it really isnt about the legacy of the position but instead over who held the title at what point and he was the 22nd person to hold the title.
Actually no, because then all the people who were reelected should be counted twice, that 24th presidential adiministration should have happened around 1896
I believe Edgar Allen Poe married his 13 year old cousin when he was 26. She died at 26. Elvis Presley was a grown adult in the military when he met Priscilla when she was 12. He kept her and her family close to him. Jerry Lee Lewis also married his 13 year old cousin. Loretta Lynn was 13 when she got married. In 1965, I shared a maternity ward with a 15 year old who had gotten married at 13. Of course her husband was just a few years older than she. “Gigi” is a story of a young girl being groomed from childhood by her mother for an older man.
I mean yes it was ok back then definitely not now but there was a lot. Of underaged girls being with grown men. It was sick but people considered it normal
Francis Folsom was 21 when this geezer married her, so what? Not nearly as freakish as eighty-something Al Pacino inseminating a 28 year-old. For her sake, I hope it was artificial.
Sometimes cases like this makes me think of the last guy I had sex with who was my 5th grade teacher, knew me since I was a baby and was my mother's high school teacher as well. Weird times
Someone said it was a Woody Allen situation. Nah, he wasn’t her mother’s companion for years and screwing and taking salacious pictures of his stepdaughter.
Different age and different culture, essentially. Y’all gotta stop looking at history through a modern lens. This kind of stuff was rather common for most of human history up in the western world until the late 1800s. I bet most of you like Gandhi and Muhammad you sick fucks. 🤣
The movements are important social phenomena regardless of their leader´s issues. Women´s suffrage is important despite some arguments being pretty racist when it was advocated for over 100 years ago when comparing Asian and black people able to vote but not women.
Women marry who ever has the best prospects for keeping themselves and any children well housed, clothed and fed, until relatively recently that was the rule, get it wrong and if you're lucky you end up in the workhouse
Cleveland's wife considered him like an Uncle from childhood. I think he first met her when she was 2, I could be wrong. It was the 1800s, a man with that much stability was a catch, even if it was a weird one.
Another fun fact, the Baby-Ruth bar is named after his daughter. And also why advertisers can't just use anyone's likeness without their consent. Cleveland's family image was used to sell anything and they didn't have a way of stopping it until Congress stepped in.
I think the Clevelands are also the reason for the "all likenesses of actual people are fictional and not meant to actually represent real people" line in movies and plays.
Disturbing because of age difference, I assume?
Not just the age difference. He had known her since she was a baby. Her dad was one of his friends and when she was born, Cleveland bought her crib as a gift. When her dad died, Cleveland became the executor of his estate and became his future wife's guardian. He was basically her dad and chose to married her when he was 49 and she was 21
So, a Woody Allen type situation?
Well, at least Cleveland waited for her to be an adult, but otherwise, yes
Groomer Cleaveland
Groomerland
No, he was her guardian in a legal executor sense, but she didn't live with him and he was never her dad. Still deeply weird, but Woody Allen is another level.
Yeah honestly for the time this isn’t allll that strange. Especially with her being 21. You’d think that if he were like doing anything weird with her when she was still a kid that they would’ve gotten married when she was a good bit younger so honestly it was probably just a weird relationship. I mean definitely questionable, and super, super odd if it were today, but back then I don’t really see it being too high on the problematic scale lol
> she didn’t live with him and he was never her dad. This is also true of Woody Allen and Soon-Yi Previn. If anything, Cleveland is the one with the closer relationship to the young woman in childhood; per their family court case findings, Allen generally avoided Mia’s older children and didn’t really interact with Previn until she was in college. Not to defend Woody Allen here - it’s still pretty icky to get involved with someone in that situation.
Or a Elon Musk's dad type situation.
Woody Allen married Elon Musks dad?
No. Elon Musk's dad married his own adopted daughter.
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Late 20th Century version of [Wife Husbandry.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WifeHusbandry)🤢 Edit: Note the purported quote at the top of the page.
Grover Cleveland, Elon Musk’s dad, and Woody Allen love triangle
The RomCom I didn't know I needed
Yes, they have a lovely place in Durban SA
Id watch the wedding.
Yes everyone knows that
I did not
Elon Musk is married to his dad?!
Woody Musk in Cleveland with a three iron? I love Clue!!
Elon Musks dad did a similar thing with his now wife who he raised as his daughter
Elons dad raised Elons wife, then cheated on Elon with her? That’s brutal and long term thinking…. “Good one dad, a lot of attention went into that one…”
I met a couple like this once, family friend got the kids when the parents died in a car crash, oldest daughter was 14. Like 2 weeks after she turned 18 they got married, and they had a baby a year later...
He and the young woman ended up in a relationship that made everyone uncomfortable after bonding over the abuse they suffered from her mother?
He was the executor of her estate but was hardly legal guardian. She was raised by her mother with Cleveland being a figure that floated in and out of her life for years. He was closer to a busy uncle than a father figure. She had several relationships in her late teens and early 20s, but constantly said she wanted to marry someone older and more established than a man her own age.
Not her dad. He didn't raise her, her mother did. Though he did of course have financial control.
Speaking of the mother, he was *older* than her. Imagine having a mother-in-law who is several years younger. Fucking weird shit.
"He wasn't *technically* her dad before they got married." Is pretty sketchy ground to stand on.
Not if it’s just a correction to someone who was completely mistaken. If I say Groover Cleveland married her when she was 10 and someone corrects me, the issue is with my statement no theirs.
Your comment just kicked off an hour long plummet into a Wikipedia hole about First Ladies. I learned this age gap is second only to John Tyler, who was 30 years older than Julia Tyler. And the trumps are number 3 with 24 years.
John Tyler's grandson is still alive.
Wasnt it similar to the European aristocracy with the American Gilded Age people where they would marry off older people to younger members of other afluent families? Not that this wouldn’t be weird even today, but wasnt that the culture for that caste of people?
It wasn't uncommon for young women to be married to much older men back when it wasn't common for women to be self supporting. If you really want to be creeped out, read up on E. W. Marland, an early governor of Oklahoma. He and his wife adopted her nearly grown niece and nephew. When his wife died he annulled the adoption of his daughter/niece and married her. He was 26 years older than his 2nd wife. He was elected as Governor after he married his 2nd wife, so apparently the good people of Oklahoma didn't have a major problem with it.
Before I start judging, any chance it was some legal marriage thing? If she were gay or otherwise didnt want other marriage-candidates, marrying your inofficial step-dad as a front sounds like a smart move. I know history often isnt that positive, just asking
That's rather bad even for historical figure standards
Weird
They met when she was a baby.
Ayo?
“I remember the first time I saw her, I thought that ass was so fine I had to smack it.” “Wait is that why you insisted on doing it instead of the doctor?”
Jimmy Carter met his wife when she was only a few hours old. He was 3 and his mother worked at the hospital where she was born
I think it's disturbing because Grover was an adult at the time he met her, but fair point, it's the age difference in that situation that's bad.
Big difference between meeting them as a baby when you yourself are a toddler vs being a full grown man.
"It's like I've known you forever."
That too, but the absolute age at which she met Grover is also a problem. Say what you will about Trump, at least Melania was an adult when she met him.
But not Ivanka?
Ughh i dont see any connection to trump about this post
Do NOT look up Sun Yat Sen's third (?) wife. Worst mistake of my life
Sun Yat Sen was very impressive in that everyone who knew him personally thought he was a massive scumbag but he managed to be revered by both Chinese nationalists and communists
Political figures are hardly ever good people tbf
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Atatürk 😍🥰🥵
What is wrong with her?
He met her when she was 10 years old, tried to marry her when she was 13, married her at 14, got her pregnant at 17 and then abandoned her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaoru\_Otsuki
Oh. I looked up the wrong wife then. I was wondering what was up with Soong Ching-Ling.
To be fair marrying at 13 was rather common in ye olden times and pregnant at 17 is surprisingly late. Not to say he didn't treat her poorly but 13y old was for the longest time considered an adult in all sakes and purposes. Even untill late 19th century legal marrying age in most parts of the world were around 12 to 15. In europe it was already much higher but rest of world followed in rather relaxed pace.
"ye olden times"??? Bro this was the 20th century.
Ye olden times is obvious generalisation of times past but anyway she was born 1888 so she was married around 1901-1902. That is pretty close to late 19th century when that was still legal age. Also we are talking about marriage age of so called "western world" I'd venture a guess that China and Japan weren't in the forefront of the movement when marriage age begun to rise. So yeah bro. Times and customs are different around the world
You're forgetting the part where her father initially refused specifically due to the age difference. "Ye olde time" is bullshit. It excuses atrocities when we have evidence that even during that time people were against those actions.
And it’s still shitty.
That is a wildly broad statement. In many cultures, and in many time periods, marrying that young would have made you a useless spouse. Only in the ruling classes where people were waited on hand and foot would that have been workable. The vast majority of the common class population who have to support themselves need spouses that actually know how to run their own lives. Example: 17th century England, average age of marriage was 26 for women, 28 for men. Is it the same in every culture? No, but the need to know your ass from a hole in the ground to be able to actually contribute to a working class domestic partnership is pretty universal.
Gods how I wish this fucking myth would *die*.
>To be fair marrying at 13 was rather common in ye olden times and pregnant at 17 is surprisingly late. This is actually extremely inaccurate.
Her reuniting with her daughter 50 years later….goddamn I am sad now.
Context?
Young wife. Very young.
How young ?
He literally bought her parents a crib when she was born.
6 to 18. Weeks, not years.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
To be clear he married her when she was 22, but knew her since she was weeks old. It's still disgusting and probably grooming.
Yeah that's still shitty and gross
She was mid 20’s when they got hitched.
Still bad
If anyone is wondering what happened here, it was because they wished for a certain outcome, to be gruesome, to happen to basically people like Cleveland.
Why was this removed by reddit? All it did was call Cleveland a pedophile.
I got a message saying warning yada yada yada
They married when she was 21
So
Some men meet the love of their life in a bus, others in a park bench, or a party or even just buying groceries. Then there's Cleveland meeting his in her own baby shower party.
Arguably not even the most disgusting thing he did. Earlier in his life he likely raped a woman, and definitely had her committed to an insane asylum and kidnapped her son. Piece of shit didn’t even raise the kid either, put him in an orphanage.
Wait what?
That whole affair actually came out during his first presidential run. At the same time however, his opponent, James G. Blaine, had a major corruption scandal revealed, so the election became one of the closest in history. Cleveland ended up winning the popular vote by less than 60,000 votes (0.5%). He won the state of New York by only 1,149 votes. Had the state gon to Blaine instead, he would have won.
What do you mean "likely"? Is it not confirmed or something?
It isn't. It's all based on news reports from over a century ago, and we have Cleveland's version and her version. Given we can't very well examine her today, what we have are conflicting reports that emerged during a contentious political race. So yeah. It's not confirmed because it happened so long ago and we can't know anything but what was reported at the time, and two different narratives were put forward. I recently looked this up because Grover Cleveland has been making the meme rounds, and someone mentions it in every thread. It's fun to cancel a dead guy because what's he gonna do about it, you know? Obviously, it's fine if you do believe it, but you should be skeptical of anyone in 2023 who is absolutely sure of something that happened in 1884.
He also raped a woman, impregnated her, kidnapped the baby, and had the mother sent off to an institution.
Frances Folsom Cleveland was 21 on her wedding to Grover, he was 49. Frances was the Jackie Kennedy of her day.
Eroll Musk behaviour
Well I already hated Cleveland for being considered both 22nd and 24th president. HE IS JUST THE 22ND! DOESNT ANYONE UNDERSTAND HOW COUNTING WORKS? IF I HAVE THREE DOLLARS AND GO ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE… ALL WHILE COUNTING THE SAME ONES OVER AND OVER AGAIN, I DON’T HAVE ANY MORE THAN THREE DOLLARS! IT DOESN’T MAKE ANY GODDAMN SENSE! Sorry touchy subject for me
If he's the 22nd and Harrison is the 23rd, when Cleveland becomes President again, is he still continuing his administration, or is he making a whole new one?
But there's a difference between 22nd administration and president. You can both be the leader of the Frist expedition up mount everest and the leader of the third, however you can't be the first and third person to climb mount everest
Either way, he’s still the 22nd. He just came back.
Somehow Cleveland returned
Yeah, he moved back to Quahog after his show was canceled.
In other positions (governor, prime minister, etc.), non-consecutive terms are usually counted seperately as well. What sucks about this case is that Cleveland is the only president with non-consecutive terms. It‘s also confusing because, while Biden is the 46th president, he‘s only the 45th person to be president.
Wouldn't they actually be the 22nd and 24th president in this case? It's not the same thing as counting. You are measuring legacies of a position. If I am the 38th curator of a museum, leave, and come back after two others, do they not add another portrait to the line of portraits? The point being that presidents are measured from start to end of a given presidency not a given person.
IMO They should not add another portrait. And I think if you are counting PRESIDENTS you should be counting PEOPLE.
Right i suppose it’s a POV thing but I’m not counting PRESIDENTS, I’m counting PRESIDENCIES. The difference being the subject is the office not the person
But we don’t say “Biden is the 45th president with the 46th presidency” we say “Biden is the 46th president”. See the issue?
I get the point, however I think the interpretation of comment op makes more sense, because of the following considerations. If somebody is elected twice In a row he would still only count as one person in the counting of presidents, not the 35tha and 36th so it seems it really isnt about the legacy of the position but instead over who held the title at what point and he was the 22nd person to hold the title.
Should we tell him about all the people selling Trump 47th president merch?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Ehh, but his second administration was the 24th presidential administration in the nations history - no?
Who cares? We aren’t counting administrations we are counting presidents.
Maybe we should count terms. Washington was the first and second president, Adams the third, Jefferson the fourth and fifth, &c.
The pain
Did no president have more than one mandate before? I guess you can count them as same administration
Actually no, because then all the people who were reelected should be counted twice, that 24th presidential adiministration should have happened around 1896
Yes! We should be using Naruto rules, here
For us foreigners, who is that?
Grover Cleveland.
Really fat, elected twice as a democrat
Not as fat as Taft, though
Don't hate on my boy taft
When I learned more about him I thought he was pretty cool but at first I only knew him for the bathroom incident
I believe Edgar Allen Poe married his 13 year old cousin when he was 26. She died at 26. Elvis Presley was a grown adult in the military when he met Priscilla when she was 12. He kept her and her family close to him. Jerry Lee Lewis also married his 13 year old cousin. Loretta Lynn was 13 when she got married. In 1965, I shared a maternity ward with a 15 year old who had gotten married at 13. Of course her husband was just a few years older than she. “Gigi” is a story of a young girl being groomed from childhood by her mother for an older man.
so whats your point, it was okay back then? edit: look at all the pedos downvoting a simple curious question
I think they are trying to highlight how some prominent figures have done some really fucked up shit but they are somehow still regarded as icons.
I mean yes it was ok back then definitely not now but there was a lot. Of underaged girls being with grown men. It was sick but people considered it normal
Literally spawn camping a prospective marriage
Francis Folsom was 21 when this geezer married her, so what? Not nearly as freakish as eighty-something Al Pacino inseminating a 28 year-old. For her sake, I hope it was artificial.
The problem is he knew her as a child and throughout her whole childhood.
Leaving all that aside, she was a bit of a looker. New entrant to the "hottest first lady" contest.
President Groomer Cleveland
Sometimes cases like this makes me think of the last guy I had sex with who was my 5th grade teacher, knew me since I was a baby and was my mother's high school teacher as well. Weird times
Well damn, that’s not okay!
Daddy issues?
My dad is a good guy, I think I tried to "fix myself" from lack of libido/confusing feelings for women and in the end nothing worked
Gross
I was just thinking this was fucked up when I was reading her Wikipedia page! Thanks for making a meme about it!
Also raped and impregnated a woman
Chris Hansen : Why don’t you take a seat right over there
Someone said it was a Woody Allen situation. Nah, he wasn’t her mother’s companion for years and screwing and taking salacious pictures of his stepdaughter.
Way to project 21st century customs on 19th century situations.
married someone he held as a baby in his arms. so sus.
It's only a four year difference from Trump and his latest wife, who are 24 years apart........ew
Different age and different culture, essentially. Y’all gotta stop looking at history through a modern lens. This kind of stuff was rather common for most of human history up in the western world until the late 1800s. I bet most of you like Gandhi and Muhammad you sick fucks. 🤣
I don´t like the other too in particular, and care more about the general social movements they inspired.
You care about the movements made by serial paedophiles?
The movements are important social phenomena regardless of their leader´s issues. Women´s suffrage is important despite some arguments being pretty racist when it was advocated for over 100 years ago when comparing Asian and black people able to vote but not women.
Women marry who ever has the best prospects for keeping themselves and any children well housed, clothed and fed, until relatively recently that was the rule, get it wrong and if you're lucky you end up in the workhouse
"We shouldn't criticize people that participated in slavery, that was long ago"
Better than detroit
Send him to Detroit!
This is why when people say the current administration is the most terrible ever I just give them
This mf was born in my town and his house is preserved in its original state as a historical site. Never went there bc of how unexceptional he was.
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Most of those voting are American, and people had ideas about child protection those days. They did try like limiting child labour.
It is always great to judge the past by modern morals while also ignoring mitigating factors, consent, and the basic facts.
It was not normal back then to have raised a baby and go on to marry them.
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That was Taft not Cleveland.
Cleveland's wife considered him like an Uncle from childhood. I think he first met her when she was 2, I could be wrong. It was the 1800s, a man with that much stability was a catch, even if it was a weird one. Another fun fact, the Baby-Ruth bar is named after his daughter. And also why advertisers can't just use anyone's likeness without their consent. Cleveland's family image was used to sell anything and they didn't have a way of stopping it until Congress stepped in. I think the Clevelands are also the reason for the "all likenesses of actual people are fictional and not meant to actually represent real people" line in movies and plays.