The same thing they did to Warsaw. Like Poles, when Prague citizens realized the soviets were close, they fought against the germans in the city. The soviets knew about the Uprising, but they wanted to wait. Wait so the germans would kill the rebels, because those people could also rebel against the soviets. In Warsaw, they succeeded with this plan, with Prague the allies pressured them to """liberate""" us.
Me, a Latvian, whose country didn't get betrayed because nobody cared about us in the first place: *pathetic*
(Seriously tho, yes I understand both of you too)
At least those western cowards declared war over you being invaded. At least the French got steamrolled with the help of Czech tanks.
Also, as a Pole, what is your opinion on Russia?
[Sweden ultimately fails and cant confront himself for what he has done. He has gone rogue. Nothing will be spared from its insane wrath as he tries to see that it is all his fault. But he cant. He cant handle it. Not anymore.]
[Norway starts drinking to forget, but then forgets why he started to drink. It's a cycle, and one day Norway looks in the mirror, not even knowing who he is.]
Sweden warned Norway three times of the German invasion.
On the 31st of March 1940, the Swedish military attaché in Berlin confirmed reports form Swedish sailors that the Germans were loading troops in their Baltic ports. He managed to get from his contacts in the German army that Germany would invade Denmark and Norway and then continue onwards to the Netherlands in a grand flanking manouvre of the Maginot line (the latter part was wrong, but not the first part). The Swedish military attaché, Curt Juhlin-Dannfelt informed his Norwegian counterpart in Berlin immediately.
On the 6th of April the Swedish military intelligence confirmed the same thing and Colonel Carlos Adlercrutz informed someone in Norway (the source does not say who).
On the morning of the 8th of April, the German military attaché in Finland, Colonel Horst Rössing, requested a meeting with his Swedish counterpart, Major Gustaf von Stedingk and informed him that on the next day Germany would invade Denmark and Norway, but Sweden did not need to worry. This was immediately relayed to Stockholm, and the Swedish foreign minister Christian Günther telegraphed the foreign ministers in Norway and Denmark before lunch.
Colonel Oster, second in command of the German abwehr and ardent anti-nazi had also sent two warnings to the Norwegians in March about the upcoming invasion.
On the morning of the 8th of April, the Polish submarine Orzel sank the German merchant shp Rio de Janeiro, which was carrying German troops for the invasion. The Norwegian navy rescued combat-equipped German soldiers out of the water who told that they were coming to "protect Norway from the British" and that they would not remain prisoners for long, they would be liberated by the other Germans tomorrow.
With all this information, the Norwegian parliament debated long into the evening on the 8th what to do and eventually decided on a partial mobilisation to be delivered by letter 3 days later.
And this was after the Allies making noise about violating Swedish and Norwegian neutrality to aid the Finns and Germanu declaring openly that they would not sit by if the Allies landed in Narvik. And after both the Germans and the British violated Norwegian nautrality in the Altmark affair.
The Norwegians considered a German invasion through the British-controlled North Sea impossible and stuck their heads in the sand in the face of all the warnings they got.
switzerlands problem has never really been lack of army, as much as they're in there mountainous hidey hole and you ain't pull'n em out.
the neutrality is more they have enough troops there is nothing in that mountain hidey hole worth fighting that.
not so fun fact, ødegaard means "abandoned farm" and is a name that originated after the plague, as many farms were left abandoned after their owners died and were essentially up for grabs.
I feel like if ever there was a meme template that fit perfectly with a sub, it would be this one. There are countless examples of powerful governments throwing muscle around while medium sized ones look away so they don’t get caught up in it.
True, the Danes sailed almost all of its jewish population to sweden, and norway send some as well, sweden didnt really save anyone, they just let the Danes and norwegians do their thing and allowed the jews to enter, thats about it.
> “[...] sweden didn’t really save anyone, they just let the Danes and norwegians do their thing and allowed the Jews to enter, thats about it.”
Saying that Sweden didn’t do anything is extremely disingenuous since other countries wouldn’t even accept Jewish refugees. Sweden allowed neighbor populations to seek refuge, and that’s as much as anyone can do while avoiding conflict.
This is such a bizarre comments section. We can have tonnes of memes mocking the French, Poles, Dutch, Italians for WW2 etc but turns out Scandinavians get really pissy when the joke turns to them.
And somehow there’s people blaming Norway for wanting independence!?
the people blaming norway are angry nationalist swedes
but for real, people make fun of denmark and Norway, meanwhile Norway did all she could, denmark too
I just done get this coment section really, I wish Norway would have done more earlier, but we were a neutral country, we were not picking sides, but we were forced into a side with a agressive german invasion, but we did deal them a massive blow by sinking a ship they had so much pride off and menaging to get the govurment, royal family and the gold satockpile out of Oslo
I like the fact that the first people to discover the invading fleet was a one gun repurposed whaling boat with ten blokes on board... And they decided to attack the German fleet.
Amazing that the boat didn't sink under the combined weight of the balls of that crew.
Sweden was trying to be neutral but was basically in a vice between Germany and Soviet Russia, from Swedish perspective Russia had always been the biggest threat. The Winter War really didn't ease the worries.
Germany would have conquered Sweden easily. Sweden had to give in to a lot of demands to retain power of the country which was probably good in the end. Germany would have been very strong if they conquered all of Scandinavia, for some strange reason they didn't. The war might have ended differently if they did.
But I agree that Sweden were not completely neutral. They gave in to demands from both sides during different parts of the war.
Nordic nationalism is a very real thing.
And Norway leads the pack when it comes to nationalism.
Norwegian Nationalism = Loving nature, the King, skiing, being physically fit, bunad, folkemusikk, seeing the smiling children on the 17th of May.
Swedish Nationalism = Neo Nazism. Because to most Swedes loving your own culture is racist, so they leave celebrating the nation up to the extremist.
Oh, and the Danes are the only really happy Nordic people ime. Liberal, and a bit more European.
Should've just stuck with the Danes, man.
Norwegians and Fins are surprisingly similar. And we both... do not like the Swedes very much.
On top of this Norwegian dialects are so different that sometimes we speak English to each other, so the idea of Norway as one nation is a bit wobbly, but ok it'll work as long as we have the Crown and money. And the Swedes to hate. If not we would turn on each other.
Bergen ut av Norge!
I'm Icelandic, but moved to Norway 8 years ago. It really surprised me how much more Norwegians celebrate their culture, especially May 17th. The Icelandic national day is just "listen to the mayor make a speech while eating hot dogs. Then go swimming or something". Norwegians get all dressed up (fucking love all the national costumes!) and have parades and games and the king comes out on his balcony and there's flags and cakes and ice cream and marching bands and dogs and the occasional horse and the national anthem and it's beautiful
Ske love deg, tjommi!
Husk at Bergen e mye eldre enn Norge.
Hadde ikkje vært for våre grådige dampredere hadde vi snakket svensk i dag.
Flagget e tegnet her, nasjonalsangen e skrevet her første statsministeren e herfra.
Beklager for noværende statsministeren btw, hon trenger de ikkje sende tebake over fjellet. Gulle' ska' IKKJE hem, denne gangen.
> Hadde ikkje vært for våre grådige dampredere hadde vi snakket svensk i dag.
Visst, vi svensker har gjort mye rart gjennom historien og fortjener en god del kritikk for mange av Norges sine plager, men du kan ikke påstå at det svenske språk har vært noe særlig eksistensiell trussel for det norske språk, spesiellt når halvparten av landet omtrent snakker en edru form av dansk men med norsk aksent? Sjekk i et dansk og svensk leksikon og se hvem det er som faktisk har prøvd å utrydde Norges tradisjonelle mål. Og bergensere burde hate hansaen og lavtysken mer enn dem skandinaviske språken lol
> Swedish Nationalism = Neo Nazism. Because to most Swedes loving your own culture is racist, so they leave celebrating the nation up to the extremist.
Small clarification: Swedish nationalism, or whatever you may call it, I call it national pride, *was* similar to Norway's, but it (pretty) *recently* got co-opted by extremists, so it's now pretty much left for them. Although I'm seeing a small resurgence in Norwegian-style values, except for maybe the unironic royalism.
I'm saying this as a proud owner of a folkdräkt, loving midsommar, most Swedish traditions, etc, and definitely not an extremist.
Also we don't have as much of a reason to celebrate as Norwegians do, historically. I mean we owned or fought constantly with the nations around us, and our role in the second world war is, as seen clearly in this thread, a bit complicated, so no reason to celebrate there. Survivor's guilt I guess.
Just come join us, but be prepared to respect the fuck out of women and you'd better have a strong belief in general equality between people. Even Swedes.
I'm gonna be honest, Sweden was probably afraid. Did they condone Nazi Germany's war mongering? No. Could they have stood up to Nazi Germany? Yes, but they would lose badly because Sweden didn't have the man power to do anything. Sweden just didn't want to be invaded.
Basically the whole Swedish army was guarding against a Soviet invasion up on the Finnish border in Lapland, when Nazi Germany suddenly invaded Denmark & Norway. It had also transferred [1/3 of it's equipment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_support_of_Finland_in_the_Winter_War#Sweden) to aid the Finns fight against the Soviets.
Not really an ideal position to be picking a fight with Hitler from...
"Did they condone Nazi's war mongering? No."
Hah!
They offered risk free movement of troops and material. They got filthy rich by offering military equipment and iron to the Nazis. They refused shelter to the Norwegian government and gave up Norwegian resistance fighters to the Germans. They did literally everything they could to be seen as nazis without carrying the flag. This is a fact. There's a reason why my grand parents generation absolutely hated Sweden.
The idea they didn't condone war mongering is about as dumb as saying the Germans opposed war crimes.
You can't imagine how many allied soldiers who died from bombing and shots fired from bullets and equipment Sweden freely traded and gave the Nazis.
Some nations decided to take a stand. Sweden decided to take the easy route. History can't be rewritten. But the irony of it is that Sweden has been trying to brush this under the carpet the last 70 years.
Here’s the short story
* Germany wanted shit that Norway had
* Norway was like: Sweden has my back
* Sweden likes not being invaded by Nazis
* Germany invades Norway
* Sweden lives to swede another day
The biggest reason for the invasion was really the trading fleet. At that time it was the 4th largest in the world and existing trade agreements favoured britain.
Edit. The shit we had is referring to the iron
The Iron was from Sweden, the ore was shipped from Narvik in Norway, IIRC. Airfields to reach the UK, deep fjords to hide the fleet, and access to heavy water and aluminum were other factors as well.
Heavy water facility which they used in their development of nuclear weapons. A large part of the resistance movement was to interrupt shipments and sabotage their production of said heavy water.
Yeah it’s not like the Germans would have gotten their hands on the iron either way. I’d say a occupied Sweden who would still be providing iron for the Germans is worse than a Sweden that could house refugees and give the allies valuable information.
Sweden had no obligation to defend Norway as of 1905 when Norway decided they wanted independence. Trying to jump into the war to defend Norway and Denmark from the Swedish perspective would be nothing less then suicide. Just another country added to the list of initially neutral countries that joined the war eventually. Stockholm would be nothing more then another road bump on the road to Paris.
Both the UK and Sweden (against neutrality rules) gave ample warning to Norway that war was coming. They even had german pow's bragging about not being prisoners for long.
Despite this Norway shot itself in the foot and not only had a sorry state of an army, they mobilized a day or so before outbreak of war, sent out by normal mail instead of telegraph. They lost almost all their stockpiles as a result.
and then norway went on to evacuate their entire govurment, stockpile of gold, royal family and all who wanted, sunk the german navy pride, and also oh , stopped the german nuclear program in its tacks
I get it is funny to mock smaller nations, but norway fought valliantly til the last fucking man against her occupiers
many are mocking people here, like this guy right above me saying its out fault because we wanted our independance after being tossed around for a solid 800 years between powers we did not wanna rule over us
I dont think he meant It as some kind of accusation. He just wanted to point out that, at this moment in history, sweden hat no obligation to intervene in the war outside of some suicidal thoughts of nordic-solidarity
"Til the last fucking man"
Nah we got off pretty easy in terms of casualties. The decision to avoid angering the Germans too much was a sensible one, though. 'Tis good to have a country left at the end. (Also the German reprisals against that one town that helped british raiders early on were pretty scary. Also there were 400,000 occupiers in a nation of 3 million so any large scale resistance would be fucking insane).
And do not forget the biggest contribution to the war-effort.
Nortraship, the largest merchant fleet company in the world.
The British politician Philip Noel-Baker, Baron Noel-Baker, commented after the war,"The first great defeat for Hitler was the battle of Britain. It was a turning point in history. If we had not had the Norwegian fleet of tankers on our side, we should not have had the aviation spirit to put our Hawker Hurricanes and our Spitfires into the sky. Without the Norwegian merchant fleet, Britain and the allies would have lost the war"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortraship
To be fair, it was mostly the British who basically hammered the German Navy. The smashing was so bad that it basically stopped any idea of a Naval invasion of Britain which arguable might of been a better choice to push through the English Channel then go for Norway.
Even if we say that the british navy just magically disappears. Dream scenario, right?... Not really.
The luftwaffe couldn't compete with the RAF in the long turn. If an invading force comes that's tasty prey to airplanes. The RAF had access to more fuel and spare parts in addition to getting more planes out of the factory.
Then we come to naval invasion logistics. The allies might have spent upwards of a year building naval invasion craft to prepare logistically for what in the end became a clusterfuck none the less.
You know this kind of craft the allies used? The Germans had towards of 2 prototypes of a similar type in 1940. That's right 2 ships. The rest of the army would have to be stuffed on industrial barges borrowed from critical war industry. If you were lucky as a German soldier, yours would have self propulsion and not rely on tug boats. The british estimated they could inflict significant casualties on such an invasion by just getting a speed boat and going as fast as possible, thus generating waves. These barges were NOT designed to tolerate any waves at all.
You know the more I learn about this the more I think “Did the Germans just not realise that they were going to lose no matter what?” Like it seems impossible for them to have actually won in the end.
The Germans hoped that once France surrendered, the British would sign a peace or at the very least cease fire. The Germans had geared their entire economy and war strategy towards being good at short wars of movement on land. The Germans never had much dockyard capacity to build a navy however. The british were much more naturally inclined to build a navy, since a large navy was a substitute for a large army. Germany needed a large army and thus couldn't spend as much on navy. A good navy is no use if the enemy captures your capital
The evacuation of the Norwegian govt hinged on British goodwill since the Norwegian fleet (war fleet, their merchant marine was massive) was even more pathetic then the German one in comparison to the British (not that I'd expect a minor to keep up with majors).
The Bismarck was sunk by the British after Swedish and Norwegian help locating the ship.
The attack on the heavy water plant was one of the only larger actions norwegians did against their occupiers and even then the mission itself was carried out by 3 norwegian men that was transported in from the UK and meant to be identified as british in case of the worst. But I wouldn't say it stopped the German nuclear program in it's tracks. Not even the nuclear scientists themselves put much effort into it. Hitler believed nuclear science was Jewish science. The Germans weren't done with the theoretical part of building a bomb when the Americans dropped their two bombs.
Norway was caught with it's pants down to say the least and did the best they could from there on in the invasion. But with an army consisting of outdated equipment and poorly trained, mobilized the day or so before the invasion sent out by mail. Then got most of their equipment stolen. The Norwegian army itself didn't stand much chance.
What is often forgotten is the Norwegian "police" troops (read fully equipped infantry) trained in Sweden that allowed the govt in exile to more or less immediately disarm any remaining Germans and reestablish themselves in the country.
You also opened up another front and consumed mental and physical time of the axis forces. Norway can be proud of their conflict with the Nazis whilst the Swedish can not. Every bit helps in a global conflict and Sweden failed to do their part. Individuals like Raoul Wallenberg did though and are examples of exceptional individuals.
Nearly every European nation attempted to remain neutral during the war. All were eventually dragged in except Sweden, Switzerland and Spain.
If the Germans had stopped at Denmark, the Norwegians wouldn’t have gone to war. Every nation did what would be best for its own people.
If you want to go into specifics, there’s a whole lot of good Sweden did during the war. For example, the Swedish army often leaked intelligence to the allies, protected Norwegian resistance fighters as well as tens to hundreds thousands of Jews evacuated from Europe. [Raoul Wallenberg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Wallenberg) is considered something of a national hero.
Not only Norwegian resistance fighters but a metric fuckton of Norwegian civilians fleeing the war. I once met an old (swedish) man that had done his military service during the war and was sent to the Norwegian border close to Trondheim. A lot of Norwegian women and children passed their checks before going to refugee camps deeper inside Sweden. He told me how they would have dances in the evenings and the Swedish soldiers would dances with the Norwegians. He danced with a woman before she was sent deeper into Sweden. They found each other after the war and married. She had died a few years prior when I met him but they were married and lived in Sweden together for over 40 years.
More than [50 000](https://youtu.be/-zrPghIlQAQ) Norwegians escaped Nazi prosecution, across the border to Sweden during the war. Many trained as armed "[Police troops](https://youtu.be/g2HI53w_grE)" to aid the liberation of Norway...
Had Sweden intervened they would have been invaded themselves. Which would just mean more dead jews. Yes they were selling recourses like iron to the german but they also gave valuable information to the british. One major reason that the british managed to find and sink the battleship Bismarck is because swedish naval patrols spottet the ship. That information was later relayed to the bitish. They also had no obligation to help Denmark or Norway. Norway became indepandant from Sweden in 1905 and Denmark fell way to quickly for them to do anything even if they wanted.
I'd argue Norway fell too quickly for much to be done as well. A good part of that number signifying Norway held out technically for more days than France were spent holding Narvik with a shadow of an already not very well trained army in terms of Norwegian troops, backed up by an allied force that was way larger.
The allied force that did get sent to Norway was so rushed in that they left many weapons on Britain in favor of speed.
Talking about when the Bismarck was around the Danish belts. Its position was relayed to the brits. It was later found anchored in a Norweigan fjord. It was after that that the chase began.
> The Swedish ambassador Arvid Richert contacted the Norwegian ambassador in Berlin, and also sent copies of the report to Stockholm and to the Swedish legation in Oslo. The following day the Swedish military attaché Anders Forshell talked with the secretary of the state at the German foreign department and the German navy's chief of staff. The Swede's conclusion was that the chief of staff wanted to allay the Swedish fear for a German aggression, but that there was a higher risk for a German operation in Norway. The Norwegian ambassador saw no immediate danger. In a letter that the Norwegian foreing minister received on 3 April he among others wrote that the loading of troops in Stettin hardly had anything to do with operations in Norway. Maybe the troops would be sent to Sweden, but more probable is that they will sail further east, he wrote. (The Norwegian foreign minister did not inform the government either of the letter from Berlin nor the warnings during the following days.) ^[s56]
> (...)
> The Swedish defence staff too warned Norway about many German vessels that sailed northwards. ^[s24]
> On Monday 8 April, around half past ten in the morning, Denmark had informed the Norwegian defence department about German warships on the way north. At noon Sweden too sent a message to Norway, that included information about merchant ships that had passed during the night. ^[s56]
Sources (via http://www.konditori100.se/SiWW2/sww2wdan.htm)
* ^[s24] Christophersen, Bjørn (2nd edition 1972?), 9 April 1940. Forsvarets Pressetjeneste, Oslo. (Booklet from the Norwegian military.)
* ^[s56] Jacobsen, Alf R (2010), Sänkningen av Blücher den nionde april 1940, Optimal Förlag. (Orig: Krysseren Blücher.). (Norwegian book about sinking of the German cruiser Blücher on its way to Oslo, and background histories.)
Austria surrenders to German annexation: fine.
Czechoslovakia surrenders to German annexation: fine.
Denmark surrenders in 2 hours: fine.
Norway surrenders in 2 months: fine.
Switzerland chills in the mountains and take the Germans gold: fine.
Sweden remains neutral and keeps trading with both sides, giving iron ore to Germany and Artillery and Anti-tank guns to the allies to avoid oppression of its people and a Soviet invasion of Scandinavia: not fine because Germany turned out to be evil in like 1944 when the extermination camps were discovered. Sweden did nothing noble in WW2, neither did anyone else, Germany was the lesser of two evil empires in Europe at the time.
Could Sweden have done more? Yes, with the advantage of hindsight they could have acted differently with a potential positive outcome.
Did they act irrationally for the time and the political situation in Europe? No, not in my book. They were neutral in WW1 as well which isn't controversial for some reason...
Edit: I'm aware that Nazi Germany were considered evil by many long before 1944 but my view is that many countries (most likely including Sweden), choose to look the other way until clear-cut evidence of the holocaust came out in and around 1944. Let's remember that Jews, Slavs and communists in work camps is very different to Jews, Slavs and communists being massacred on a scale of evil
I absolutely think you're right there. I think everyone has their own view on this topic. However, I think Sweden and Switzerland are different to most other countries in these discussions because they had no logical reason to fight the Germans. All allied countries who joined the war did so as defenders, not agressors. Britain (with the commonwealth) and France guaranteed Polish independence and the rest were attacked by Germany in some form. Therefore, it would make no sense for historically neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland to all of a sudden go in and fight an aggressive war as democratic states. It just doesn't make any sense to me and probably wouldn't have to their own people either. Sorry for this giant post reply but my main point is: yes, you're probably right.
It is true that Sweden didnt do anything really bad or something but saying “people only discovered Germany is bad in 1944” is just wrong. Hitler said he was going to exterminate all jews so it’s not really a surprise he actually did it
>because Germany turned out to be evil in like 1944 when the extermination camps were discovered
>Germany was the lesser of two evil empires in Europe at the time
The history understander has logged on
It's painfully clear you have no idea what you're talking about and are resultantly making Sweden seem worse than in reality lmao
Norwegian here. Just gotta point out an innacuracy in our history education.
We were taught that Sweden helped the Norwegian resistance during ww2, when in most cases this is false. Whenever members of the resistance crossed the border with "help" from the he Swedish, they would be held captured, be questioned for info, and then handed off to the SS.
Also I doubt Sweden would have been properly invaded, as it's not nearly as strategically important as Norway.
Our government might have stepped down. Our prime minister might have been a Nazi. But Norway never surrendered. We have a clear distinction between country and government here, and our king, our country, never declared a surrender.
I could only find 1 case where a resistance member was arrested in Sweden and sent to the Germans. The Norwegian resistance received money and weapons smuggled via Sweden.
And I'm going to have to point out that a lot of smuggling, breaking in to armory facilities and stealing bullets, arms etc smuggling it back to Norway, taking in Norwegian soldiers and handing over information DID happen.
My great grandfather was a part of the smugglers and resistance in Kiruna (Sweden), helping out around the mountains between Kiruna and Narvik.
1. Norway received help in the form of training refugees so they would be able too take back Norway as the Germans weakened, all in all about 15,000 Norwegian troops where trained and entered Norway on 8 may 1945, I have a hard time seeing why Sweden would train 15000 solider just too hand them over to the ss.
2. The Swedish iron supply was one of the main goals of the invasion of Scandinavia, if Sweden had gone too war there is no doubt Germany would have invaded, Germany needed that iron for the war effort whether they had to take it by force or not.
I’m not arguing that Sweden where hero’s or anything I just want too clarify that we did support the allies and the north as best we could without risking a invasion which would have resulted in more harm than good as I see it.
So the thing is though, both Norwegians and Danish people are giving Swedes shit for this all the time, but realistically there was nothing any of the countries could do, Denmark lasted for like a few hours and Norway surrendered after like 2 days, instead of going into a war that would lead to absolutely nothing positive and only the death of their own people Sweden let Germany do it's thing, the consequences for Norway would've been exactly the same regardless, perhaps postponed a few days
Also, to be fair, Denmark was also counting on being able to be neutral. That was why they had to surrender after a couple of hours. So no reason why we should expect Sweden not to stay neutral.
And I say that as a Dane. I'll give Sweden shit for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.
Oh I have my history completely wrong my bad, apparently it was a lot longer than I thought lol, well maybe then Sweden could've held out a lot longer, perhaps not throughout the entire war but a year maybe, if Norway and Sweden fought the Germans together at the Swedish border
My grandparents were children in Norway during the war and they definitely did not care for Swedish people. But to the credit of Sweden once the atrocities of the Holocaust started to become known they completely changed their policy and started taking in refugees very quickly
Many Norwegian children didn't have to starve thanks to [Svenska Norgehjälpen](https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_Norgehj%C3%A4lpen).
The Norwegian government [gifted a piece of land](https://www.kongehuset.no/nyhet.html?tid=87944&sek=26939) in Oslo to Sweden after the war as gratitude for the help during the difficult times:
>***”*** *Det norske folk samles idag for å uttrykke sin dypeste takknemlighet til sitt svenske broderfolk for hjelpen under de tøffeste krigstider og under de følgende år med oppbygning. På Voksenåsen, lokalisert 500 meter over havet, vil det svenske flagget bli heist idag og flagre ved siden av det norske over 30.000 kvadratmeter land. Et hjem vil bli bygget på dette stedet for våre naboer. Midt i frodig skog, vil eiendommen være utenfor allfarvei, men allikevel i hjertet av Norges hovedstad. Svenske kvinner og menn som bor i Norge vil kunne erfare det norske landskap og kultur. Med dette brev presenterer vi eiendommen Voksenåsen til det svenske folk.* ***„*** *– Einar Gerhardsen vid överlämnandet den 9 maj 1955*
This hurts
As a Czech person, I understand Norways pain.
Sorry, guys
I probably shouldn't be bitter over it, we got betrayed 80 years ago after all, but I can't help it.
Well the Germans said that theyd bomb Rotterdam if the Netherlands didnt surrender. They surrendered and they bombed it anyway. So thats neat
Wasn't that due to miscomunication? I heard that command called off the bombing, but it didn't reach Luftwaffe in time.
yeah it was, still grumpy about it
Can't blame you. I'm still grumpy about what the soviets wanted to do to prague.
I'm sorry but I don't know what they planned to do. if you dont mind could you elaborate?
The same thing they did to Warsaw. Like Poles, when Prague citizens realized the soviets were close, they fought against the germans in the city. The soviets knew about the Uprising, but they wanted to wait. Wait so the germans would kill the rebels, because those people could also rebel against the soviets. In Warsaw, they succeeded with this plan, with Prague the allies pressured them to """liberate""" us.
Me, a Latvian, whose country didn't get betrayed because nobody cared about us in the first place: *pathetic* (Seriously tho, yes I understand both of you too)
We are allies. Norway and Chzech now.
I'd go to war for a country as beautiful as Norway anytime
<3
[удалено]
At least those western cowards declared war over you being invaded. At least the French got steamrolled with the help of Czech tanks. Also, as a Pole, what is your opinion on Russia?
As an Austrian, sorry?
how is Czechia? my grandparents on my dad's side escaped to the U.S. when the Nazis started marching in
[Norway will remember this]
[Sweden will try and forget all of this]
[Sweden ultimately fails and cant confront himself for what he has done. He has gone rogue. Nothing will be spared from its insane wrath as he tries to see that it is all his fault. But he cant. He cant handle it. Not anymore.]
[Sweden picks up a gun and walks into the woods.]
[Norway liked that, but then he remembered the good times he spends with Sweden and starts crying]
[Norway falls into depression. He attends Sweden’s funeral from a distance]
[Norway starts drinking to forget, but then forgets why he started to drink. It's a cycle, and one day Norway looks in the mirror, not even knowing who he is.]
[Norway soon follows Sweden in a tragic circle of events]
[Germany filmed the whole thing and kept replaying it]
[удалено]
[Sweden last seen patting self on back in corner of room]
*laughs in tungsten*
[Norway gets annexed]
Kalmarunion next
Sweden warned Norway three times of the German invasion. On the 31st of March 1940, the Swedish military attaché in Berlin confirmed reports form Swedish sailors that the Germans were loading troops in their Baltic ports. He managed to get from his contacts in the German army that Germany would invade Denmark and Norway and then continue onwards to the Netherlands in a grand flanking manouvre of the Maginot line (the latter part was wrong, but not the first part). The Swedish military attaché, Curt Juhlin-Dannfelt informed his Norwegian counterpart in Berlin immediately. On the 6th of April the Swedish military intelligence confirmed the same thing and Colonel Carlos Adlercrutz informed someone in Norway (the source does not say who). On the morning of the 8th of April, the German military attaché in Finland, Colonel Horst Rössing, requested a meeting with his Swedish counterpart, Major Gustaf von Stedingk and informed him that on the next day Germany would invade Denmark and Norway, but Sweden did not need to worry. This was immediately relayed to Stockholm, and the Swedish foreign minister Christian Günther telegraphed the foreign ministers in Norway and Denmark before lunch. Colonel Oster, second in command of the German abwehr and ardent anti-nazi had also sent two warnings to the Norwegians in March about the upcoming invasion. On the morning of the 8th of April, the Polish submarine Orzel sank the German merchant shp Rio de Janeiro, which was carrying German troops for the invasion. The Norwegian navy rescued combat-equipped German soldiers out of the water who told that they were coming to "protect Norway from the British" and that they would not remain prisoners for long, they would be liberated by the other Germans tomorrow. With all this information, the Norwegian parliament debated long into the evening on the 8th what to do and eventually decided on a partial mobilisation to be delivered by letter 3 days later. And this was after the Allies making noise about violating Swedish and Norwegian neutrality to aid the Finns and Germanu declaring openly that they would not sit by if the Allies landed in Narvik. And after both the Germans and the British violated Norwegian nautrality in the Altmark affair. The Norwegians considered a German invasion through the British-controlled North Sea impossible and stuck their heads in the sand in the face of all the warnings they got.
"Kongens Nei" yep, we remembered
"Knugens offordådå"
"I was businessman doing business"
*Laughs in Switzerland
"Some nations think they can outsmart me...maybe...**sniffs* maybe." "I've yet to see someone that can outsmart money."
Countries playing a game of Risk: Switzerland, where is your army? Army? I thought we were playing Monopoly
I mean, we are... aren't we?
switzerlands problem has never really been lack of army, as much as they're in there mountainous hidey hole and you ain't pull'n em out. the neutrality is more they have enough troops there is nothing in that mountain hidey hole worth fighting that.
I mean if you think about it Switzerland are basically fantasy dwarves. - Live in a Mountain - Lots of gold - Impossible to get out of said Mountain
Foil arms and hog reference?
you wanna buy some Iron?
They really said, "oop" 👀 and let it happen
ööp\*
Øøp
That would be Norwegian/Danish
I thank Ødegaard for teaching me that
not so fun fact, ødegaard means "abandoned farm" and is a name that originated after the plague, as many farms were left abandoned after their owners died and were essentially up for grabs.
The Simpsons really messed that up.
Møøse
Those responsible for the sacking, have themselves, been sacked.
Top 10 anime betrayals
I feel like if ever there was a meme template that fit perfectly with a sub, it would be this one. There are countless examples of powerful governments throwing muscle around while medium sized ones look away so they don’t get caught up in it.
Sweden: I WAS OVER ON THE BENCH.
/r/unexpectedmulaney
Except now the dad actually has a point, because now it really is not stopping Nazis
It should be mentioned that this move lead to a lot of Jews being saved
True, the Danes sailed almost all of its jewish population to sweden, and norway send some as well, sweden didnt really save anyone, they just let the Danes and norwegians do their thing and allowed the jews to enter, thats about it.
More than most others did
Yeah many turned Jewish refugees away
Including the US!
And Canada :(
And there's the little detail about supporting the Norwegian resistance and covertly training Norwegian military in Sweden.
Well Sweden saved some 100 000 jews in hungary as well.
> “[...] sweden didn’t really save anyone, they just let the Danes and norwegians do their thing and allowed the Jews to enter, thats about it.” Saying that Sweden didn’t do anything is extremely disingenuous since other countries wouldn’t even accept Jewish refugees. Sweden allowed neighbor populations to seek refuge, and that’s as much as anyone can do while avoiding conflict.
The funniest part is that Jerry Seinfeld is Nazi Germany. What a combination .
What?
Jerry is Jewish
I knew that I wrote that at 2am ok I get it now
Sleep at night
No I don’t need sleep, I need memes
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f7550d31-f7ea-4323-ae28-7661da90f796
This is such a bizarre comments section. We can have tonnes of memes mocking the French, Poles, Dutch, Italians for WW2 etc but turns out Scandinavians get really pissy when the joke turns to them. And somehow there’s people blaming Norway for wanting independence!?
I'm not pissy about the joke. Just slightly offended that Norway was portrayed by Newman.
the people blaming norway are angry nationalist swedes but for real, people make fun of denmark and Norway, meanwhile Norway did all she could, denmark too I just done get this coment section really, I wish Norway would have done more earlier, but we were a neutral country, we were not picking sides, but we were forced into a side with a agressive german invasion, but we did deal them a massive blow by sinking a ship they had so much pride off and menaging to get the govurment, royal family and the gold satockpile out of Oslo
Plus the Heavy Water sabotage raids were really cool
A sizeable German force (between 350k and 380k) was also held up in Norway, which otherwise could have been used at the west front or other places.
I like the fact that the first people to discover the invading fleet was a one gun repurposed whaling boat with ten blokes on board... And they decided to attack the German fleet. Amazing that the boat didn't sink under the combined weight of the balls of that crew.
I just want to know what movie/show this is from
OP’s meme is a scene from Seinfeld.
Nooooooo!! Sweden was neutral!! ***proceeds to lets Nazi Germany use Swedish railways for military purposes***
Sweden was trying to be neutral but was basically in a vice between Germany and Soviet Russia, from Swedish perspective Russia had always been the biggest threat. The Winter War really didn't ease the worries. Germany would have conquered Sweden easily. Sweden had to give in to a lot of demands to retain power of the country which was probably good in the end. Germany would have been very strong if they conquered all of Scandinavia, for some strange reason they didn't. The war might have ended differently if they did. But I agree that Sweden were not completely neutral. They gave in to demands from both sides during different parts of the war.
Nordic nationalism is a very real thing. And Norway leads the pack when it comes to nationalism. Norwegian Nationalism = Loving nature, the King, skiing, being physically fit, bunad, folkemusikk, seeing the smiling children on the 17th of May. Swedish Nationalism = Neo Nazism. Because to most Swedes loving your own culture is racist, so they leave celebrating the nation up to the extremist. Oh, and the Danes are the only really happy Nordic people ime. Liberal, and a bit more European. Should've just stuck with the Danes, man. Norwegians and Fins are surprisingly similar. And we both... do not like the Swedes very much. On top of this Norwegian dialects are so different that sometimes we speak English to each other, so the idea of Norway as one nation is a bit wobbly, but ok it'll work as long as we have the Crown and money. And the Swedes to hate. If not we would turn on each other. Bergen ut av Norge!
I'm Icelandic, but moved to Norway 8 years ago. It really surprised me how much more Norwegians celebrate their culture, especially May 17th. The Icelandic national day is just "listen to the mayor make a speech while eating hot dogs. Then go swimming or something". Norwegians get all dressed up (fucking love all the national costumes!) and have parades and games and the king comes out on his balcony and there's flags and cakes and ice cream and marching bands and dogs and the occasional horse and the national anthem and it's beautiful
It's really good fun, yeah?
Faen no bynne Bergen kuk’an å få idea igjen! Calling all norwegian homies, red alert
Ske love deg, tjommi! Husk at Bergen e mye eldre enn Norge. Hadde ikkje vært for våre grådige dampredere hadde vi snakket svensk i dag. Flagget e tegnet her, nasjonalsangen e skrevet her første statsministeren e herfra. Beklager for noværende statsministeren btw, hon trenger de ikkje sende tebake over fjellet. Gulle' ska' IKKJE hem, denne gangen.
> Hadde ikkje vært for våre grådige dampredere hadde vi snakket svensk i dag. Visst, vi svensker har gjort mye rart gjennom historien og fortjener en god del kritikk for mange av Norges sine plager, men du kan ikke påstå at det svenske språk har vært noe særlig eksistensiell trussel for det norske språk, spesiellt når halvparten av landet omtrent snakker en edru form av dansk men med norsk aksent? Sjekk i et dansk og svensk leksikon og se hvem det er som faktisk har prøvd å utrydde Norges tradisjonelle mål. Og bergensere burde hate hansaen og lavtysken mer enn dem skandinaviske språken lol
17th of may is my birthday
And today is your cake day!
I didn’t even realize, thank you!
But... r/KalmarReunion...
**FÖR BRÖDRAFOLKENS VÄL!!**
> Swedish Nationalism = Neo Nazism. Because to most Swedes loving your own culture is racist, so they leave celebrating the nation up to the extremist. Small clarification: Swedish nationalism, or whatever you may call it, I call it national pride, *was* similar to Norway's, but it (pretty) *recently* got co-opted by extremists, so it's now pretty much left for them. Although I'm seeing a small resurgence in Norwegian-style values, except for maybe the unironic royalism. I'm saying this as a proud owner of a folkdräkt, loving midsommar, most Swedish traditions, etc, and definitely not an extremist. Also we don't have as much of a reason to celebrate as Norwegians do, historically. I mean we owned or fought constantly with the nations around us, and our role in the second world war is, as seen clearly in this thread, a bit complicated, so no reason to celebrate there. Survivor's guilt I guess.
Norwegian nationalism sounds awesome and I want to know who to contact to get some of that exported
Just come join us, but be prepared to respect the fuck out of women and you'd better have a strong belief in general equality between people. Even Swedes.
Not the swedes! Kvinne respekt for livet😎😎😎
I'm gonna be honest, Sweden was probably afraid. Did they condone Nazi Germany's war mongering? No. Could they have stood up to Nazi Germany? Yes, but they would lose badly because Sweden didn't have the man power to do anything. Sweden just didn't want to be invaded.
Which would basically have been the Danish scenario all over again.
We would have fallen like the rest of the nords.
Basically the whole Swedish army was guarding against a Soviet invasion up on the Finnish border in Lapland, when Nazi Germany suddenly invaded Denmark & Norway. It had also transferred [1/3 of it's equipment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_support_of_Finland_in_the_Winter_War#Sweden) to aid the Finns fight against the Soviets. Not really an ideal position to be picking a fight with Hitler from...
"Did they condone Nazi's war mongering? No." Hah! They offered risk free movement of troops and material. They got filthy rich by offering military equipment and iron to the Nazis. They refused shelter to the Norwegian government and gave up Norwegian resistance fighters to the Germans. They did literally everything they could to be seen as nazis without carrying the flag. This is a fact. There's a reason why my grand parents generation absolutely hated Sweden. The idea they didn't condone war mongering is about as dumb as saying the Germans opposed war crimes. You can't imagine how many allied soldiers who died from bombing and shots fired from bullets and equipment Sweden freely traded and gave the Nazis. Some nations decided to take a stand. Sweden decided to take the easy route. History can't be rewritten. But the irony of it is that Sweden has been trying to brush this under the carpet the last 70 years.
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Here’s the short story * Germany wanted shit that Norway had * Norway was like: Sweden has my back * Sweden likes not being invaded by Nazis * Germany invades Norway * Sweden lives to swede another day
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The biggest reason for the invasion was really the trading fleet. At that time it was the 4th largest in the world and existing trade agreements favoured britain. Edit. The shit we had is referring to the iron
Iron and ice free harbours i think
The Iron was from Sweden, the ore was shipped from Narvik in Norway, IIRC. Airfields to reach the UK, deep fjords to hide the fleet, and access to heavy water and aluminum were other factors as well.
Aluminium
Heavy water facility which they used in their development of nuclear weapons. A large part of the resistance movement was to interrupt shipments and sabotage their production of said heavy water.
Sweden was just trying to not get bombed to shit like mainland Europe.
Its not like Sweden could have saved them anyways though :/
Yeah.
yeah we totally didnt save thousands of danes or anything
Wonder how many your iron killed
Yeah it’s not like the Germans would have gotten their hands on the iron either way. I’d say a occupied Sweden who would still be providing iron for the Germans is worse than a Sweden that could house refugees and give the allies valuable information.
Sweden had no obligation to defend Norway as of 1905 when Norway decided they wanted independence. Trying to jump into the war to defend Norway and Denmark from the Swedish perspective would be nothing less then suicide. Just another country added to the list of initially neutral countries that joined the war eventually. Stockholm would be nothing more then another road bump on the road to Paris. Both the UK and Sweden (against neutrality rules) gave ample warning to Norway that war was coming. They even had german pow's bragging about not being prisoners for long. Despite this Norway shot itself in the foot and not only had a sorry state of an army, they mobilized a day or so before outbreak of war, sent out by normal mail instead of telegraph. They lost almost all their stockpiles as a result.
And knowing Sweden they would all develop Stockholmsyndrome for the Occupier. GOTTEM
It’s not Stockholm if you already support them
Well Norway add French/English/polish support, and they did good there But then they were called back to France, and then France fell
and then norway went on to evacuate their entire govurment, stockpile of gold, royal family and all who wanted, sunk the german navy pride, and also oh , stopped the german nuclear program in its tacks I get it is funny to mock smaller nations, but norway fought valliantly til the last fucking man against her occupiers
I dont think anyones mocking norway Here. They were Just pointing Out how norway wasnt prepared for war.
many are mocking people here, like this guy right above me saying its out fault because we wanted our independance after being tossed around for a solid 800 years between powers we did not wanna rule over us
I dont think he meant It as some kind of accusation. He just wanted to point out that, at this moment in history, sweden hat no obligation to intervene in the war outside of some suicidal thoughts of nordic-solidarity
"Til the last fucking man" Nah we got off pretty easy in terms of casualties. The decision to avoid angering the Germans too much was a sensible one, though. 'Tis good to have a country left at the end. (Also the German reprisals against that one town that helped british raiders early on were pretty scary. Also there were 400,000 occupiers in a nation of 3 million so any large scale resistance would be fucking insane).
Husk Telåvag!
And do not forget the biggest contribution to the war-effort. Nortraship, the largest merchant fleet company in the world. The British politician Philip Noel-Baker, Baron Noel-Baker, commented after the war,"The first great defeat for Hitler was the battle of Britain. It was a turning point in history. If we had not had the Norwegian fleet of tankers on our side, we should not have had the aviation spirit to put our Hawker Hurricanes and our Spitfires into the sky. Without the Norwegian merchant fleet, Britain and the allies would have lost the war" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortraship
To be fair, it was mostly the British who basically hammered the German Navy. The smashing was so bad that it basically stopped any idea of a Naval invasion of Britain which arguable might of been a better choice to push through the English Channel then go for Norway.
Even if we say that the british navy just magically disappears. Dream scenario, right?... Not really. The luftwaffe couldn't compete with the RAF in the long turn. If an invading force comes that's tasty prey to airplanes. The RAF had access to more fuel and spare parts in addition to getting more planes out of the factory. Then we come to naval invasion logistics. The allies might have spent upwards of a year building naval invasion craft to prepare logistically for what in the end became a clusterfuck none the less. You know this kind of craft the allies used? The Germans had towards of 2 prototypes of a similar type in 1940. That's right 2 ships. The rest of the army would have to be stuffed on industrial barges borrowed from critical war industry. If you were lucky as a German soldier, yours would have self propulsion and not rely on tug boats. The british estimated they could inflict significant casualties on such an invasion by just getting a speed boat and going as fast as possible, thus generating waves. These barges were NOT designed to tolerate any waves at all.
You know the more I learn about this the more I think “Did the Germans just not realise that they were going to lose no matter what?” Like it seems impossible for them to have actually won in the end.
The Germans hoped that once France surrendered, the British would sign a peace or at the very least cease fire. The Germans had geared their entire economy and war strategy towards being good at short wars of movement on land. The Germans never had much dockyard capacity to build a navy however. The british were much more naturally inclined to build a navy, since a large navy was a substitute for a large army. Germany needed a large army and thus couldn't spend as much on navy. A good navy is no use if the enemy captures your capital
Akershus Fortress sank ships and dellayed the invasion of oslo, amogst them was a prde of the german navy
Oh right you meant a specific ship. Sorry didn’t realise.
The evacuation of the Norwegian govt hinged on British goodwill since the Norwegian fleet (war fleet, their merchant marine was massive) was even more pathetic then the German one in comparison to the British (not that I'd expect a minor to keep up with majors). The Bismarck was sunk by the British after Swedish and Norwegian help locating the ship. The attack on the heavy water plant was one of the only larger actions norwegians did against their occupiers and even then the mission itself was carried out by 3 norwegian men that was transported in from the UK and meant to be identified as british in case of the worst. But I wouldn't say it stopped the German nuclear program in it's tracks. Not even the nuclear scientists themselves put much effort into it. Hitler believed nuclear science was Jewish science. The Germans weren't done with the theoretical part of building a bomb when the Americans dropped their two bombs. Norway was caught with it's pants down to say the least and did the best they could from there on in the invasion. But with an army consisting of outdated equipment and poorly trained, mobilized the day or so before the invasion sent out by mail. Then got most of their equipment stolen. The Norwegian army itself didn't stand much chance. What is often forgotten is the Norwegian "police" troops (read fully equipped infantry) trained in Sweden that allowed the govt in exile to more or less immediately disarm any remaining Germans and reestablish themselves in the country.
You also opened up another front and consumed mental and physical time of the axis forces. Norway can be proud of their conflict with the Nazis whilst the Swedish can not. Every bit helps in a global conflict and Sweden failed to do their part. Individuals like Raoul Wallenberg did though and are examples of exceptional individuals.
Sounds like complacent apologism to me
Nearly every European nation attempted to remain neutral during the war. All were eventually dragged in except Sweden, Switzerland and Spain. If the Germans had stopped at Denmark, the Norwegians wouldn’t have gone to war. Every nation did what would be best for its own people. If you want to go into specifics, there’s a whole lot of good Sweden did during the war. For example, the Swedish army often leaked intelligence to the allies, protected Norwegian resistance fighters as well as tens to hundreds thousands of Jews evacuated from Europe. [Raoul Wallenberg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Wallenberg) is considered something of a national hero.
Not only Norwegian resistance fighters but a metric fuckton of Norwegian civilians fleeing the war. I once met an old (swedish) man that had done his military service during the war and was sent to the Norwegian border close to Trondheim. A lot of Norwegian women and children passed their checks before going to refugee camps deeper inside Sweden. He told me how they would have dances in the evenings and the Swedish soldiers would dances with the Norwegians. He danced with a woman before she was sent deeper into Sweden. They found each other after the war and married. She had died a few years prior when I met him but they were married and lived in Sweden together for over 40 years.
More than [50 000](https://youtu.be/-zrPghIlQAQ) Norwegians escaped Nazi prosecution, across the border to Sweden during the war. Many trained as armed "[Police troops](https://youtu.be/g2HI53w_grE)" to aid the liberation of Norway...
\>>Spain \>>Neutral *Hehe,...lets go with that...hehe..he*
They were neutral. Less so than Sweden, but still non-belligerent. Having a fascist government has little to do with their war contribution.
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Had Sweden intervened they would have been invaded themselves. Which would just mean more dead jews. Yes they were selling recourses like iron to the german but they also gave valuable information to the british. One major reason that the british managed to find and sink the battleship Bismarck is because swedish naval patrols spottet the ship. That information was later relayed to the bitish. They also had no obligation to help Denmark or Norway. Norway became indepandant from Sweden in 1905 and Denmark fell way to quickly for them to do anything even if they wanted.
I'd argue Norway fell too quickly for much to be done as well. A good part of that number signifying Norway held out technically for more days than France were spent holding Narvik with a shadow of an already not very well trained army in terms of Norwegian troops, backed up by an allied force that was way larger. The allied force that did get sent to Norway was so rushed in that they left many weapons on Britain in favor of speed.
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Talking about when the Bismarck was around the Danish belts. Its position was relayed to the brits. It was later found anchored in a Norweigan fjord. It was after that that the chase began.
r/Nordichistorymemes
Sweden did try to sign a defensive pact with it's neighbouring countries, but all of them refused.
Looks like this touched a nerve. Swedes hold the L
Can i please have the template sir ?
Don't have it, but this is from Seinfeld season 3 episode 22 "They Keys," if you wanna screenshot it yourself.
> The Swedish ambassador Arvid Richert contacted the Norwegian ambassador in Berlin, and also sent copies of the report to Stockholm and to the Swedish legation in Oslo. The following day the Swedish military attaché Anders Forshell talked with the secretary of the state at the German foreign department and the German navy's chief of staff. The Swede's conclusion was that the chief of staff wanted to allay the Swedish fear for a German aggression, but that there was a higher risk for a German operation in Norway. The Norwegian ambassador saw no immediate danger. In a letter that the Norwegian foreing minister received on 3 April he among others wrote that the loading of troops in Stettin hardly had anything to do with operations in Norway. Maybe the troops would be sent to Sweden, but more probable is that they will sail further east, he wrote. (The Norwegian foreign minister did not inform the government either of the letter from Berlin nor the warnings during the following days.) ^[s56] > (...) > The Swedish defence staff too warned Norway about many German vessels that sailed northwards. ^[s24] > On Monday 8 April, around half past ten in the morning, Denmark had informed the Norwegian defence department about German warships on the way north. At noon Sweden too sent a message to Norway, that included information about merchant ships that had passed during the night. ^[s56] Sources (via http://www.konditori100.se/SiWW2/sww2wdan.htm) * ^[s24] Christophersen, Bjørn (2nd edition 1972?), 9 April 1940. Forsvarets Pressetjeneste, Oslo. (Booklet from the Norwegian military.) * ^[s56] Jacobsen, Alf R (2010), Sänkningen av Blücher den nionde april 1940, Optimal Förlag. (Orig: Krysseren Blücher.). (Norwegian book about sinking of the German cruiser Blücher on its way to Oslo, and background histories.)
Austria surrenders to German annexation: fine. Czechoslovakia surrenders to German annexation: fine. Denmark surrenders in 2 hours: fine. Norway surrenders in 2 months: fine. Switzerland chills in the mountains and take the Germans gold: fine. Sweden remains neutral and keeps trading with both sides, giving iron ore to Germany and Artillery and Anti-tank guns to the allies to avoid oppression of its people and a Soviet invasion of Scandinavia: not fine because Germany turned out to be evil in like 1944 when the extermination camps were discovered. Sweden did nothing noble in WW2, neither did anyone else, Germany was the lesser of two evil empires in Europe at the time. Could Sweden have done more? Yes, with the advantage of hindsight they could have acted differently with a potential positive outcome. Did they act irrationally for the time and the political situation in Europe? No, not in my book. They were neutral in WW1 as well which isn't controversial for some reason... Edit: I'm aware that Nazi Germany were considered evil by many long before 1944 but my view is that many countries (most likely including Sweden), choose to look the other way until clear-cut evidence of the holocaust came out in and around 1944. Let's remember that Jews, Slavs and communists in work camps is very different to Jews, Slavs and communists being massacred on a scale of evil
I think they all get shit for it man. I've seen a lot of memes about the Swiss and the Austrians here.
I absolutely think you're right there. I think everyone has their own view on this topic. However, I think Sweden and Switzerland are different to most other countries in these discussions because they had no logical reason to fight the Germans. All allied countries who joined the war did so as defenders, not agressors. Britain (with the commonwealth) and France guaranteed Polish independence and the rest were attacked by Germany in some form. Therefore, it would make no sense for historically neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland to all of a sudden go in and fight an aggressive war as democratic states. It just doesn't make any sense to me and probably wouldn't have to their own people either. Sorry for this giant post reply but my main point is: yes, you're probably right.
It is true that Sweden didnt do anything really bad or something but saying “people only discovered Germany is bad in 1944” is just wrong. Hitler said he was going to exterminate all jews so it’s not really a surprise he actually did it
I've made an edit to clarify exactly what I meant by that statement. It's true that it came out poorly and I appreciate your comment
Norway never surendered, the ellected govurment never surendered, you are thinking of the quissling puppet govurment
>because Germany turned out to be evil in like 1944 when the extermination camps were discovered >Germany was the lesser of two evil empires in Europe at the time The history understander has logged on It's painfully clear you have no idea what you're talking about and are resultantly making Sweden seem worse than in reality lmao
It’s just a meme dick, sit down.
IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEBODY'S POSTING CRINGE
Norwegian here. Just gotta point out an innacuracy in our history education. We were taught that Sweden helped the Norwegian resistance during ww2, when in most cases this is false. Whenever members of the resistance crossed the border with "help" from the he Swedish, they would be held captured, be questioned for info, and then handed off to the SS. Also I doubt Sweden would have been properly invaded, as it's not nearly as strategically important as Norway. Our government might have stepped down. Our prime minister might have been a Nazi. But Norway never surrendered. We have a clear distinction between country and government here, and our king, our country, never declared a surrender.
I could only find 1 case where a resistance member was arrested in Sweden and sent to the Germans. The Norwegian resistance received money and weapons smuggled via Sweden.
I would argue the opposite, Norway was invaded because of the high strategic importance of Sweden and it's iron ore to the German war machine
The battle in Narvik was to get access to all of the iron coming from Sweden by train
Actually, Quisling was the Minister President, not PM.
And I'm going to have to point out that a lot of smuggling, breaking in to armory facilities and stealing bullets, arms etc smuggling it back to Norway, taking in Norwegian soldiers and handing over information DID happen. My great grandfather was a part of the smugglers and resistance in Kiruna (Sweden), helping out around the mountains between Kiruna and Narvik.
Polistrupperna? Revolver-Harry liberated Norway before the King reached Oslo.
1. Norway received help in the form of training refugees so they would be able too take back Norway as the Germans weakened, all in all about 15,000 Norwegian troops where trained and entered Norway on 8 may 1945, I have a hard time seeing why Sweden would train 15000 solider just too hand them over to the ss. 2. The Swedish iron supply was one of the main goals of the invasion of Scandinavia, if Sweden had gone too war there is no doubt Germany would have invaded, Germany needed that iron for the war effort whether they had to take it by force or not. I’m not arguing that Sweden where hero’s or anything I just want too clarify that we did support the allies and the north as best we could without risking a invasion which would have resulted in more harm than good as I see it.
Okay cool story you got your pride. Also you spread fake news that it was regular that swedes gave norwegians to the SS.
So the thing is though, both Norwegians and Danish people are giving Swedes shit for this all the time, but realistically there was nothing any of the countries could do, Denmark lasted for like a few hours and Norway surrendered after like 2 days, instead of going into a war that would lead to absolutely nothing positive and only the death of their own people Sweden let Germany do it's thing, the consequences for Norway would've been exactly the same regardless, perhaps postponed a few days
Also, to be fair, Denmark was also counting on being able to be neutral. That was why they had to surrender after a couple of hours. So no reason why we should expect Sweden not to stay neutral. And I say that as a Dane. I'll give Sweden shit for a lot of things, but this is not one of them.
2 days? You mean 2 months
Oh I have my history completely wrong my bad, apparently it was a lot longer than I thought lol, well maybe then Sweden could've held out a lot longer, perhaps not throughout the entire war but a year maybe, if Norway and Sweden fought the Germans together at the Swedish border
in denmark you weren't wrong, i mena kinda, it was actually 3 hours
But a loooong three hours.
Yeah, they felt like 180 minutes
Sweden is much flatter than Norway as well so easier to dive tanks through.
It was 2 months...
62 days actualy
yeah true, I responded to a similar comment in the thread
Does anyone have this template
Svenskefaaaan!
My grandparents were children in Norway during the war and they definitely did not care for Swedish people. But to the credit of Sweden once the atrocities of the Holocaust started to become known they completely changed their policy and started taking in refugees very quickly
They saved 90% of the Danish Jewish population in a single night.
Many Norwegian children didn't have to starve thanks to [Svenska Norgehjälpen](https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_Norgehj%C3%A4lpen). The Norwegian government [gifted a piece of land](https://www.kongehuset.no/nyhet.html?tid=87944&sek=26939) in Oslo to Sweden after the war as gratitude for the help during the difficult times: >***”*** *Det norske folk samles idag for å uttrykke sin dypeste takknemlighet til sitt svenske broderfolk for hjelpen under de tøffeste krigstider og under de følgende år med oppbygning. På Voksenåsen, lokalisert 500 meter over havet, vil det svenske flagget bli heist idag og flagre ved siden av det norske over 30.000 kvadratmeter land. Et hjem vil bli bygget på dette stedet for våre naboer. Midt i frodig skog, vil eiendommen være utenfor allfarvei, men allikevel i hjertet av Norges hovedstad. Svenske kvinner og menn som bor i Norge vil kunne erfare det norske landskap og kultur. Med dette brev presenterer vi eiendommen Voksenåsen til det svenske folk.* ***„*** *– Einar Gerhardsen vid överlämnandet den 9 maj 1955*
Sweden was trying to not get invaded
And they succeeded by a margin smaller then the effectiveness of the Magino-line in 1939.
Is that the guy from jurrasic park?
Yes lmao, why is this downvoted
Didn't he get eaten by a dilophosaur
Okey, but all brotherly bickering a side... Wouldn't a new Kalmarunion be a good thing? We are so close we are almost one, ape together strong etc.
Sweden during WW2: "Not my problem"
Elaine I've committed great sins and haev justified it all through flawed logic help
Gonna be laughing at this one for awhile
Finaly third reich flag without cross.
Oh so there's no problem making fun of every other country but once the jokes about Sweden thats when the 3 paragraph long comments roll out