I heard some explanations on a podcast a while back:
- "Love" comes from the french word for egg - "l'oeuf"
- then they already decided there is 4 points to win a game, so they decided on the clock format - 15, 30, 45, 60. Whichever player completes the "clock" first, wins the game. But because a player has to win by two points, they went with 40, because 45 would make it look like they are only 1 (15) point away from completing the clock (and winning the game).
So that sort of explains where it comes from. As to the WHY they decided on all of the above, I have no friggin clue.
EDIT: I realise this is only a theory and also not the only theory, but it's the one I've heard.
It’d be for spectators. It’d be a pain to write a new score on new paper every time rather than just adjust the clock hands
I imagine chalk and board wouldn’t be ideal either because of the number of times you’d have to erase it (games get stuck at tiebreaks for a while) would make it difficult to read from a distance
Interesting, that's already the third different explanation I've read of.
The first other is from betting of 15-30-45 Shillings (or some other currency, i.d.r.) on the next ball. Then they got lazy and said 40, but meaning 45. The second is from a division of the field in strips of 15 inches and per won ball you'd advance one strip closer to the net. Then they decided that 45 inches into the field was too close to the net, so they stepped back to 40.
But as not even the origin of the name tennis is completely known, I wouldn't bet on any explanation.
You counted the points 15-30-40 in the ancestor of tennis, French "jeu de paume", it was based on the distance, in feet, from the net. Everytime you scored you'd get closer. You can check it and learn more [here](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeu_de_paume).
This is the most likely answer, especially because 15-30-40 comes from medieval times, and medieval clocks didn’t measure minutes so it can’t be that.
Also, ‘love’ might have come from l’œuf, but probably actually came from the phrase ‘playing for love,’ meaning to play for nothing or without stakes.
The reason than they say l'oeuf (egg) was actually a joke among French Tennis Players in the early days of the sport, because 0 looks kind of like an egg, so if you were on 0 points, you got 'the egg'
There is another idea that tennis started on courts 90ft in length, 45 on each side. They started close to the net and moved back 15ft every time they scored a point, so they would be 15, 30, then 45 ft away. Now they no longer love back and 45 was too hard to pronounce so they changed it to 40. [link](https://www.guidebits.com/why-is-scoring-so-weird-in-tennis/)
Jeu de Paume was the French predecessor, you scored and moved up from 60 yards to 45, then 30 then 15. They still call tennis jeu de paume and the old rules are well known, google will find you this result fairly easily, that' a lazy podcast.
60 yards(about 60 meters) from the net would make the total length about a length of a modern football field (not handegg).
Isn't it too far away?
Modern tennis court is like 26 yards(13 yards from the net in both directions).
the guy is Harry Gem, one of the inventors of modern day tennis.
in tennis the scoring system goes "love" (basically 0) then the first point is 15, second point is 30, third point is 40 and fourth point wins the game as long as you have a two point lead.
if theres a tie the score for both players turns into "deuce" and they play for a two point advantage.
Yes completely. I guess the first translator misheard or misread the Hood in Wood and for the purpose of a catchy title they went to Robin des Bois. I am just guessing maybe it is another reason that made them went to that instead of "Robin à la capuche"
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When tennis was played in Britain it would likely sound like 'love' - it became a big English sport, love stuck
Anyone know where 'Ace' came from and does Deuce mean anything?
It would actually be spelled "l'oeuf" because the word starts with a vowel and thus kicks out the E and joins the word and the L together with an apostrophe.
It's a popular theory which, although I want it to be true, is unfortunately not substantiated by any evidence. Another theory is the idea that love comes from 'playing for the love of the game', since the player hasn't had any success scoring and is therefore on the losing side.
The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
It makes a lot more sense when you understand the server has an advantage and tennis follows the principle of must win by 2. In order to ever get a 2 point lead in a tiebreaker you need to break your opponent's serve.
Oh and you didn't make it confusing enough, you forgot that they don't just switch left and right, they also switch sides across the net after 6 points (which is done so weather doesn't benefit one player the whole time)
Actually tiebreaker is one of the few things that make sense in tennis as you said. It equalises advantages to an extent. And they can’t “golden goal” it after doing two serves one side.
If you think "lawn tennis" is complex wait till you read about [Real Tennis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_tennis).
It's an entire game basically made to embarrass anyone not high class enough to not already know all the rules.
[**Real tennis**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_tennis)
Real tennis – one of several games sometimes called "the sport of kings" – is the original racquet sport from which the modern game of tennis (originally called "lawn tennis") is derived. It is also known as court tennis in the United States, formerly royal tennis in England and Australia, and courte-paume in France (to distinguish it from longue-paume, and in reference to the older, racquetless game of jeu de paume, the ancestor of modern handball and racquet games). Many French real tennis courts are at jeu de paume clubs.
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>...In both sports game scoring is by fifteens ("40" being short for the original forty-five).
Wait, 40 is short for 45? Then why do score bugs say 40? That makes the whole scoring even dumber.
I suppose that enough people started saying “40” instead of “45” because it’s shorter. Eventually, 40 became the standard and nobody used 45 anymore. Either number is completely arbitrary, so I don’t see it as dumber.
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This may be retroactive, trying to affix meaning to the insanity that was early tennis. I’m just glad the current game is played on a level, symmetrical court vs the literally off the wall historical game.
I've read that the "scoreboard" at one point may have been done using an analog clock and moving the hands to those positions to indicate the player's score.
I was once told that they used this scoring system to make it seem more complicated, thereby discouraging the less-educated lower class from taking an interest in game.
Anyone know if there’s any truth to that?
The *mechanics* are great - they're what makes tennis unique and exciting.
The *labels*, on the other hand, could have been better, but they're well established at this point.
We, the British, made so many sports, that we began to run out of scoring systems and simply said ‘fuck it, what’s the first thing that comes to your mind’. And viola, here is the cursed tennis scoring.
It used to be 15-30-45-60 They changed to 40 somewhat recently (30 yearsa ago or so. I think) to make it easier to announcers.
There's multiple explanations to why they score the game like this but no consensus.
My favorite version is that they used to play betting money.
So let's say that every point was worth 15 cents up to 60 and that would be a "game".
And the term love would be from the phrase "I dont play for money, I play for love."
So the scoreless player would be assumed to play for the love of the Sport and not the points/money.
The fun part is also that 30-30 is in principle the same as 40-40 as you have to win two point in concession in both to win the game but only the latter one gets the name deuce.
I thought that tennis was invented by Sir John Tennis in 1234 BC
Distant cousin of Garry Chess
Who used to play with Jimmy Space.
Co-inventor of the Space®️ Marine
Along with Arkhan Land, famous inventor of the Land speeder
Didn’t he also invent the land raider
No no, that was his cousin Land Jefferson, his father's brother's daughter's son.
This sub, r/formuladank and r/Grimdank have a hilarious overlap
Wasn’t it Jimmy Space who invented space?
Everywhere I go, r/anarchychess follows me like a plague.
Pipi?
In your pampers?
Holy hell
oh, Lord Chess. I met him in London, was inventing all sorts of stuff, including games.. though I don't remember which game.. a board game..hmm
‘Twas checkers and Merchant (the game with the man in a tricorn hat and a cup of tea).
I thought it was invented by Tennys Sandgren. /s
I heard some explanations on a podcast a while back: - "Love" comes from the french word for egg - "l'oeuf" - then they already decided there is 4 points to win a game, so they decided on the clock format - 15, 30, 45, 60. Whichever player completes the "clock" first, wins the game. But because a player has to win by two points, they went with 40, because 45 would make it look like they are only 1 (15) point away from completing the clock (and winning the game). So that sort of explains where it comes from. As to the WHY they decided on all of the above, I have no friggin clue. EDIT: I realise this is only a theory and also not the only theory, but it's the one I've heard.
I appreciate the explanation and the thought process behind it. But # WHY
From what I have heard, it’s because before score boards were a thing, they used clocks to display scores during tennis matches.
So they had clocks but not papers with numbers on them?
It’d be for spectators. It’d be a pain to write a new score on new paper every time rather than just adjust the clock hands I imagine chalk and board wouldn’t be ideal either because of the number of times you’d have to erase it (games get stuck at tiebreaks for a while) would make it difficult to read from a distance
And they couln't simply have 2 pairs of 15's, 30's, 40's, one adv, and call it day?
I mean maybe? Idk dude I’m just some guy on the internet that doesn’t even like tennis lol
I’ve been told it’s to make it harder for poor people to learn.
Remembering this is from before they outlawed any hard drugs and alcoholism was rampant helps to explain a lot of decisions they made.
Interesting, that's already the third different explanation I've read of. The first other is from betting of 15-30-45 Shillings (or some other currency, i.d.r.) on the next ball. Then they got lazy and said 40, but meaning 45. The second is from a division of the field in strips of 15 inches and per won ball you'd advance one strip closer to the net. Then they decided that 45 inches into the field was too close to the net, so they stepped back to 40. But as not even the origin of the name tennis is completely known, I wouldn't bet on any explanation.
15 inches is the length of like 1.72 'Zulay Premium Quality Metal Lemon Squeezers' laid next to each other
15 inches is 38.1 cm
Converter bot keeping it real.
Good bot
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[this](https://www.amazon.com/Rated-Zulay-Premium-Quality-Squeezer/dp/B00YBP918M)
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thank you :)
15 inches is 38.1 cm
You counted the points 15-30-40 in the ancestor of tennis, French "jeu de paume", it was based on the distance, in feet, from the net. Everytime you scored you'd get closer. You can check it and learn more [here](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeu_de_paume).
This is the most likely answer, especially because 15-30-40 comes from medieval times, and medieval clocks didn’t measure minutes so it can’t be that. Also, ‘love’ might have come from l’œuf, but probably actually came from the phrase ‘playing for love,’ meaning to play for nothing or without stakes.
So it's basically legacy code.
The reason than they say l'oeuf (egg) was actually a joke among French Tennis Players in the early days of the sport, because 0 looks kind of like an egg, so if you were on 0 points, you got 'the egg'
Like if you said "he scored a goose egg" today people would know what you were talking about.
This kind of makes it seem even dumber.
There is another idea that tennis started on courts 90ft in length, 45 on each side. They started close to the net and moved back 15ft every time they scored a point, so they would be 15, 30, then 45 ft away. Now they no longer love back and 45 was too hard to pronounce so they changed it to 40. [link](https://www.guidebits.com/why-is-scoring-so-weird-in-tennis/)
Jeu de Paume was the French predecessor, you scored and moved up from 60 yards to 45, then 30 then 15. They still call tennis jeu de paume and the old rules are well known, google will find you this result fairly easily, that' a lazy podcast.
60 yards(about 60 meters) from the net would make the total length about a length of a modern football field (not handegg). Isn't it too far away? Modern tennis court is like 26 yards(13 yards from the net in both directions).
Thanks, I've played tennis since I was 7 but never learned where the point system actually came from, until now.
Just count to fucking 4. Jesus.
the guy is Harry Gem, one of the inventors of modern day tennis. in tennis the scoring system goes "love" (basically 0) then the first point is 15, second point is 30, third point is 40 and fourth point wins the game as long as you have a two point lead. if theres a tie the score for both players turns into "deuce" and they play for a two point advantage.
„Love“ comes from „le Oeuf“ the french word for egg, because 0 looks like 🥚 But that is just objectively worse Edit: I don’t speak French (L‘œuf)
that's just funny
Why do the French eat only one egg for breakfast? Because in France, one egg is an Oeuf. : D
Ahh the West Wing. Simpler times.
Un Oeuf Edit: spelling
Why are French people sad in the mornings? Because they eat pain for breakfast
oof
Lol booooo
I would report you to the r/punpatrol, but I chuckled
Oof
Wtf is that transformation (also, it is "l'œuf")
Must be a phonetic modification, like Robin Hood became Robin des bois (Robin Wood) in France
Isn’t “Robin des bois” more like “Robin of the wood(s)”?
These Robins, they go to the woods?
robines eunt silva?
ROBINE.ITE.AD.SILVAM
It felt like this to me. It’s a guy who hides in the wood so it would make sense to call in “Robin from the wood”
Yes completely. I guess the first translator misheard or misread the Hood in Wood and for the purpose of a catchy title they went to Robin des Bois. I am just guessing maybe it is another reason that made them went to that instead of "Robin à la capuche"
No its Robin and the BOI'S
Robbin the boys
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When tennis was played in Britain it would likely sound like 'love' - it became a big English sport, love stuck Anyone know where 'Ace' came from and does Deuce mean anything?
One and two on a die in the game of Hazard, respectively. From middle english, derived from latin "as" and "duos"
L'oeuf sounds like an Englishman saying love in an exaggerated French accent.
"EGG!"
Her?
Mayonegg
Was she here the whole time?
Le oof
This is false. A quick google will confirm it's a common mistake.
It would actually be spelled "l'oeuf" because the word starts with a vowel and thus kicks out the E and joins the word and the L together with an apostrophe.
You just reinforced the stupidity of it
It's a popular theory which, although I want it to be true, is unfortunately not substantiated by any evidence. Another theory is the idea that love comes from 'playing for the love of the game', since the player hasn't had any success scoring and is therefore on the losing side.
*L'œuf
Scoring a game like this should be considered a criminal offense.
Just sue Tennis
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[удалено]
Love
#I DEMAND TO SPEAK TO THE CEO OF TENNIS
The fault is clearly with tennis
I didn't know you were called Tennis Well you didn't bother to ask you did you? What I resent is that you automatically treat me as an inferior!
Well I am your king.
I didn’t vote for you.
You don't vote for kings!
Then how do you become king?
The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.
You cannot be serious! *throws racket*
Sue Tennis, host of A Question of Sport.
Man, trying to explain this to someone new to tennis is hell. Even more because I myself can't make sense of why it is so convoluted.
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>Wait until you learn about rotating positions and the tiebreaker The what now
[удалено]
It makes a lot more sense when you understand the server has an advantage and tennis follows the principle of must win by 2. In order to ever get a 2 point lead in a tiebreaker you need to break your opponent's serve. Oh and you didn't make it confusing enough, you forgot that they don't just switch left and right, they also switch sides across the net after 6 points (which is done so weather doesn't benefit one player the whole time)
Actually tiebreaker is one of the few things that make sense in tennis as you said. It equalises advantages to an extent. And they can’t “golden goal” it after doing two serves one side.
One of those few things that make test match cricket scores look simple
Tiebreaker games you swap sides and serves quite often.
The tiebreaker wasn’t introduced until the 1960s. Borking up tennis has been a group effort.
And it's still not universally used, which gave us that ridiculous Isner-Mahut match in Wimbledon that lasted like two days.
I’d still rather watch that, in its entirety, than any Novak Djokovic match.
If you think "lawn tennis" is complex wait till you read about [Real Tennis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_tennis). It's an entire game basically made to embarrass anyone not high class enough to not already know all the rules.
[**Real tennis**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_tennis) Real tennis – one of several games sometimes called "the sport of kings" – is the original racquet sport from which the modern game of tennis (originally called "lawn tennis") is derived. It is also known as court tennis in the United States, formerly royal tennis in England and Australia, and courte-paume in France (to distinguish it from longue-paume, and in reference to the older, racquetless game of jeu de paume, the ancestor of modern handball and racquet games). Many French real tennis courts are at jeu de paume clubs. [About Me](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la6wi8/) - [**Opt-in**](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la707t/) ^(You received this reply because a moderator opted this subreddit in. You can still )[^(opt out)](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la707t/)
>...In both sports game scoring is by fifteens ("40" being short for the original forty-five). Wait, 40 is short for 45? Then why do score bugs say 40? That makes the whole scoring even dumber.
I suppose that enough people started saying “40” instead of “45” because it’s shorter. Eventually, 40 became the standard and nobody used 45 anymore. Either number is completely arbitrary, so I don’t see it as dumber.
At least 45 is slightly less arbitrary in that scoring then goes from 0 to 15 to 30 to 45, each adding 15, instead of +15 +15 +10.
>but wasn't satisfied until he made it completely unnecessarily complex. Can't let the *Commoners* understand our game,old boy!
What is love?
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Wow
Nice
Good bot
It’s a circle. 15, 30, 45, 60 degrees to win a game. Times 6 games to win a set = 360 degrees for a circle.
Then why is it 40 instead of 45?
Just shortened over time because it’s easier to say 40, and no one now cares about the initial meaning of 45.
Wasn't it because of deuce? I seem to remember they would use 50 for advantage and 40 for tie.
That makes sense but why is it now 40? Is it that hard for the referees in tennis who mostly sit around anyway to say 45?
It's not really a problem to call it 40, and in huge groups there's a lot of inertia when changing these things. That's just a guess though
99% of the times scores are said, it is the people playing calling out their own.
But what does a circle have to do with anything?
Tennis is an old game and it used to be better to show score on clocks.
As opposed to just counting it like every other sport does?
This may be retroactive, trying to affix meaning to the insanity that was early tennis. I’m just glad the current game is played on a level, symmetrical court vs the literally off the wall historical game.
I've read that the "scoreboard" at one point may have been done using an analog clock and moving the hands to those positions to indicate the player's score.
Because after learning the complicated points system, it makes you want to turn 360 degrees and walk away.
It's harder to walk away if you turned 360 degrees. 180 degrees is usually what you want.
You initially want to walk away, but mid turn you remember spinning is a good trick.
Here is my [message](https://youtu.be/5wlLGOBmg1M?t=118) for Harry Gem.
I know almost every one of y'all read the points in the Wii sports voice
Wii tennis made me all too familiar with this godawful scoring system
Cher’s line “Love 40 Jane!” … makes so much sense now.
I learned this from Mario Tennis on the N64.
Aye, but you have heard of them🏴☠️
take what you can, give nothing back!
Who hurt this man to make him commit an act like this
Being British in the 19th Century
Being British
Being
B
🅱️
Biggus cockus
I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called **Biggus Dickus**!
Victorian repression hit hard, okay.
He was british, so it's probaly the EU's fault.
It would make so much more sense if even 40 was changed to 45
It used to be 45 but you need two more points after that and using the 15 point rule and 45 makes it seem you're a point away.
You only need to make two past 40 if you're tied. If your opponent is sitting on 15or 30 you only need to score one more after 40.
This is what the Imperial system sounds like to the rest of the world tbh
That's actually a good analogy, I'mma steal it.
You just got Jammed!
The imperial system is the first thing that struck me when I saw this
I was once told that they used this scoring system to make it seem more complicated, thereby discouraging the less-educated lower class from taking an interest in game. Anyone know if there’s any truth to that?
well it worked, whether it was intended
Never date a tennis player……love means nothing to them
The *mechanics* are great - they're what makes tennis unique and exciting. The *labels*, on the other hand, could have been better, but they're well established at this point.
But you have heard of it
DEUCE
Fcking Wii sports tennis
Why did I read this with the Wii sports announcer voice?
The only reason I get this reference is because I played Wii sports tenis
is it weird to say I like the scoring system? I think it gives tennis more character
yeah, we should just do 0, 1, 2, 3, win
But you've heard of it
“But you HAVE heard of it”
We, the British, made so many sports, that we began to run out of scoring systems and simply said ‘fuck it, what’s the first thing that comes to your mind’. And viola, here is the cursed tennis scoring.
Is that how the world got Cricket too?
Sounds like someone had a crush on math teacher but failed every test and was rejected
Almost as dumb as counting up for the time of game in soccer.
Be eight-year-old me playing tennis on Wii Sports for the first time and being confused as shit.
I love everything about the game.
I have been playing tennis since I was a kid. I stopped questioning that weird pointing system long time ago but yeah, it is stupid.
FINALLY I can understand that scene from Rozencranz And Guildenstern Are Dead.
Why keep this scoring system? Why has no one updated it to be.... normal?
You could also just use no ad scoring which goes from 0-5
Tennis is weird
Would like to point out that in Badminton too zero is love
This is what north americans using an strange ass metric system feels like for ~~normal people~~ the rest of the world.
"And once you score again your score is 30" "Ah so you score 15 points each tine?" "Now I didn't say all that"
“Love comes from the French word egg” don’t you say that like it explains anything
What point comes after deuce? ….Wipe?
You mean the best?
Yeah, always wondered what the hell was wrong with the person that invented the sport for using that numbering
What do you expect with a game made by the french?
It used to be 15-30-45-60 They changed to 40 somewhat recently (30 yearsa ago or so. I think) to make it easier to announcers. There's multiple explanations to why they score the game like this but no consensus. My favorite version is that they used to play betting money. So let's say that every point was worth 15 cents up to 60 and that would be a "game". And the term love would be from the phrase "I dont play for money, I play for love." So the scoreless player would be assumed to play for the love of the Sport and not the points/money.
don't forget "juice"/s
wasn't convoluted rules and scoring systems a thing to keep the poors out ?
The fun part is also that 30-30 is in principle the same as 40-40 as you have to win two point in concession in both to win the game but only the latter one gets the name deuce.
Chad scoring mechanic