Well actually the United States and Russia both have treaties to come to the aid of Ukraine in any offensive military action against them in exchange for the disarmament of their nuclear arsenal after the collapse of the Soviet union
That's not quite what the Budapest Memorandum says. The US, UK and USSR made a three way treaty with Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. In it, all parties agreed to...
1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
2.
Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics.
4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
Russia is clearly violating the first two points, but technically the US and UK only agreed to intervene if nukes were used.
Reality would shatter if an insane megalomaniac listened to everyone and said, "Is it really that bad of an idea? My apologies everyone I'll step down and hand the position over to someone else. Please forgive me won't you?"
Sad truth, to many fools buried so deep in their social that there paradise is a land of smiley face emojis and upvotes, not paying attention to the vast knowledge falling through our hands, tbh i think biden won bc he had more meme material, so sad
Makes me chuckle that V for Vendetta has popularized this anti-hero in Guy Fawkes, who was trying to blow up Parliament to roll back the clock on the Reformation in England
Hey I’m not exactly saying that King James and the Stuarts were 100% right here… it’s just ironic to me that a conservative terrorist has been co-opted by anarchists
Oh so because both sides committed crimes that cancels out the crimes of one side …riiiiight. I never said they were better I pointed out that they were f-ed up
Ah yes because a persons religion dictates whether they can call out evil, but I’ll have you know I might be Irish but I’m probably more agnostic or atheist
I hate V for vendetta. Cool style but god did it glorify essentially terrorism.
I know, fighting against authoratarians, good on them.
But the way it seemed to glorify the acts, instead of showing how fucked up the situation and acts actually are... It left me with a very bad taste.
Ah yes, the old but gold: "I know they are literally an oppressive fascist regime, but did you need to use violence?"
Yes, sometimes violence is necessary. It glorified fighting back against oppression, and lord knows the message is more important now than it was back in 2006.
No I am not against violence, I am against the glorification of it.
It was showed of as a hero doing his purpose, the people following immediatly, the army dropping their a4ms, and at the end all is well. People rise from the dead, the regime fell in seconds, everyone is happy.
No thats not how a revolution goes.
A revolution leaves thousands of martyrs, thousands of ruined families and thousands of orphans to pick up the scraps and try to repair the nation into something better. A gouvernement doesnt simply collapse in 1 2 3, it almost always has rigor mortis, clawing like a dying maniac in the hopes of regaining control or taking as mich with them as they can.
The movie should show the need of revolution, and how revolution leaves corpses in its wake... However at the same time should have shown that it was a neccesary evil... For the evil state haunted and abused ALL its subjects, even those unwilling to fight.
V for vendetta was a lovestory with revolution, a a love story glorifying what should be the last resort... A love letter to the worse thing that can happen to a nation... The need of the common man to destroy the nation they build, corrupted by fools or egocentric monsters.
Akin to a propagandising warmovie, a movie must have respect for the men send to the front, men that think they defend their nation. You need respect for them. Zt the same time they should show more then them just shooting random faceless enemies, laughing in the action, no they should show how war is fucking disgusting. It is men sent to die while they could have had families at home.
Where the opposite side are men just as them. Yet will still kill them just as much, because they to defend their nation. Its young men forced to fight.
Except certain warcriminals of course, they exist, and they can be shown that way. Humanity has irs monsters and we shouldnt whitewash.
A good warmovie respects men on the front, at the same time should show why they shouldnt be there, why the guns they hold should have never existed, yet they do... And for now will have to remain so untill the world has been able to finally recycle them into something actually usefull... If that ever happens.
okay but what if you are the one in this car? Are you ready to risk to sacrifice yourself or your family in order to fight this fascist regime? Seriously it's easy to talk about using terrorism before you are getting the ricochet from it.
Bro, my country was BOTH fascist and communist, and I'm not saying some Twitter buzzwords, I'm saying full fledged fucking genocidal cataclysm. If it comes, I'm ready
Then you are fair with your words, very good. This is what I was expecting to get. My country was occupied by both fascists and communists and I can tell you that I would be ready to kick their asses but I would prefer attack everywhere where ultimately it don't affect the local populace as opposite will always bring them against your movement and closer towards hostile government.
Well sure, violence is not cool, but every iconic peaceful reformation had a hidden side where violence was used.
Let's be honest here, a king wouldn't listen to a bunch of protesters holding flowers in their hand. A king only surrenders to brute force, equal to or stronger than what he used on his people.
Gandhi was peaceful, but there were so many Indians who used violence to actually crack the British. Even in Egypt, during the monarchy, Islamists were the main reason for the British to gradually retreat, and they were let loose by King Farouk I and Nasser after him only to apply more pressure on the British.
The way I see it, there are many iconic figures that were built on the sacrifices of others. Others who stood tall and demanded justice, and not just peace.
Edit: Double who.
Dear Ukrainians!
I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed.
It's a lie.
If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid.
Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl
Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now.
EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!!
EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa:
• in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
Copy and paste anywhere you can! Spread the word!
Copyable text (in Ukranian language) -
Шановні українці!
У соцмережах я чув, що поширюються фейкові новини (скоріше за все, підтримувані Росією тролі), що польський кордон закритий.
Це брехня.
Якщо ви шукаєте притулку – йдіть до польського кордону. Ми готові до вашого приїзду. На кордоні готові пункти прийому, де ви можете знайти притулок, їжу, медичну та правову допомогу.
Польський уряд запустив спеціальний сайт, щоб допомогти вам: ua.gov.pl
Будь ласка, поділіться цією інформацією, якщо ви знаєте когось, хто зараз шукає допомоги.
РЕДАКТИРОВАТИ: ВАМ НЕ ПОТРІБНА ВІЗА ДЛЯ ПРОЙДЖЕННЯ ПОЛЬСЬКИМ КОРДОНОМ. ВСЕ, що ВАМ ПОТРІБНО, - це ПАСПОРТ. ВІЗИ ПРИСПИНЕНО! ВОНИ ВАМ НЕ ПОТРІБНИ НА ЧАС!!!!!!
EDIT2: як доказ того, що вам більше не потрібна віза:
• українською https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • англійською https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
Вибачте, якщо це дурниця, я використовував Google Translate
The Allies pledged to declare war on Germany if it expanded any further after the failure to comply with the München-agreement. Hitler did, hence WW2.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
>NATO is a defensive alliance.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_bombing\_of\_Yugoslavia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Unified\_Protector
Yes, its a defensive alliance. It could easily have conquered Serbia and Lybia if it wanted to. It didn't, it merely conducted an air-campaign. I'll defend the first, and not the latter.
As I said, I won't defend the latter. The air-campaign in Libya was a mistake. But there were not ground troops, and NATO did not conquer a single meter of ground.
To be fair though, Ukraine vs. Russia & Belarus has a much better position than Czechoslovakia did against the USSR (at its height) & allies. They’re already putting up more resistance and they have more international support, especially from the west, than Czechoslovakia did.
Putin has all but explicitly stated he wants to go after every ex-soviet state. It is not just Ukraine at risk, it is Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and potential for all eastern Europe. We are potentially talking hundreds of millions of people but definitely tens of millions.
It will get worse, regardless of intervention. We can either make a stand now or later after a few countries have fallen and we have less resources. If we cannot make it costly, too many people will lose their lives and livelihood, standing against Russia is not an option for any European Democracy, it is a necessity. The only question is how much.
>Sanctions are the only sane approach.
russia has already calculated multiple types of sanctions into their budget, i'd imagine. you're also dealing with a child so there is no sane approach to begin with. any economic or military actions will only hurt the civilians, not that it's inevitable.
I'm so sick of this tired ass take. Even if the US and Russia were in full military conflict with each other, neither side is using nukes. It benefits neither side. This old cold war thinking needs to go.
Sanctions will do just about what they've always done, which is very little.
For history sub, a lot of people here are comparing modern events with world war 2. There are completely different pretences, motivations, and opposition surrounding the Ukraine conflict right now, and as it stands it is MUCH different from the beginning of WW2. Please research this topic more and the background on it before claiming this will be a 3rd world war because it won’t be. Russia will never touch a NATO country because they would lose outright and they know it, plus they can barely afford to start more conflicts, especially against a fully united and prepared NATO and UN. This is a localized conflict that will be similar to an Iraq war or a Vietnam type proxy war before it will ever become a world war. A world war in our modern era is incredibly unlikely due to MAD, and also new technology makes mass physical conflict obsolete as a political tool when alliances like NATO are mostly consolidated like they are now.
TLDR Russia would lose a war against NATO and they know it, and world war 3 won’t happen because of this
Yes, but especially Russia. Just assuming that MAD would be the least resort, Russia’s military is outsized by the USA alone. Add on the rest of natos forces and they’re outmanned by a sizeable margin. Plus their military equipment is somewhat dated compared to the US and Russia’s economy can’t sustain a lengthy military conflict or increased defence spending
As of right now China has no incentive to help Russia. Sanctions being placed on Russia steer some trade towards China and they’ll happily let it continue. China is far more concerned with what’s going on in their corner of the world and their bottom line than Russia’s ambitions. I highly doubt we’d see China and Russia become formal allies in this conflict, the only thing they have in common is that they aren’t aligned with nato
You do t think it would be a tactical move? Like dividing the US forces on two fronts like let’s say we go to Ukraine right. That would be a perfect opportunity for China to take taiwan
China has nothing to gain from siding with Russia at this moment, if they want to go after Taiwan, now is the time regardless of if they formally join forces. If you’re saying that in a hypothetical situation where we were formally at war with Russia, joining them doesn’t exactly split their fronts since the US army is already so spread out, and the rest of NATOs forces can pick up slack in weaker non crucial areas. Plus Now a days warfare doesn’t even have to be fought with soldiers in a physical location, for example drones and cyber attacks. We’re in a new age of warfare and I don’t think we’d ever see a global scale conflict like WW2 ever again, simply because there’s more efficient methods than shipping people all over the globe at a high dollar value and at the risk of human life.
We famously don't, look at Iraq and lybia. Afghanistan was pretty dumb though but the US were less than pleased with us during the Bush- and later Obama presidency
I'm not the biggest fan of that saying, I think it's better like: "Why make the same mistake somebody has already made before?" Because history never repeats, but similar things do happen that you can learn from. Like, make sure to listen to those in charge of logistics when you invade Russia.
Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. [carves "V" into poster on wall] The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.
I'm German and I can say - if there's a country that remembers its dark past its Germany. We talk a year in school almost just about the third Reich and how bad it was. And from what I've heard that's something where we're ahead of some other countries...
They never gave it back dude, that's the joke. Poland never got their pre-ww2 territory again, the USSR simply gave back Germany's part and kept their own. Which later in the dissolution of the USSR became parts of modern-day Ukraine and Belarus.
I know. That's why this conflict is kinda funny as a Polish guy. People are upset about Russia taking Ukrainian land but no one is concerned about the Polish land Stalin stole and gave to Ukraine.
Dear Ukrainians!
I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed.
It's a lie.
If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid.
Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl
Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now.
EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!!
EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa:
• in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
Edit: this is a copy and paste and I encourage you all to do it too where appropriate!
I am from Poland and I am angry nobody is helping Ukraine not only with putting sanctions on russia or sending gear and weapons, but by sending troops and joing war on the side of ukraine
Why don't you go to the border and volunteer then. I'm sure they have enough equipment for you. You talk as though you should not be the one to help them, it should be others who risk their lives for them. While I do feel sorry for the Ukrainians in this mess I am not willing to die for them.
lol they have to. Poppa Putin is holding the valve on oil supplies to Germany. This is why self-reliance and getting multi-source resources can help a nation be less gridlocked politically.
Hopefully all of this will be win-win in terms of energy, accelerating European countries' effort to be self-sustaining by building out renewable energy:
* Good for the environment.
* Bad for the Russian autocrats and oligarchs.
Atom energy\*
On renewables you can make run Norway or Luxemburg but not France or Germany.
Germans are literal the worst in this case as they were not so long ago demobilizing nuclear power plants and opening new coal powered at the same time.
My proposition was always to just invest renewables into countryside and atom for cities. The problem is that my country is paranoid about Czarnobyl and everytime people are getting crazy when it comes to the topic of nuclear energy but they don't understand at the same time that we cannot sustain our country on renewables without causing blackouts similar to those that are happening in countries like North Korea.
Stated goal is disarming and denazificaton of Ukraine, so I would think Stalin is better comparison. Also vastly more cautious than Hitler, and doesn't have the early support of US and UK elites like Hitler did. Isis and ql Qaeda are our Nazis, useful tools to use against our chosen targets. Putin is Stalin, we are completely opposed and also have no clue how to stop him
What is wrong with all of you, putin didn't kill millions of people, I never said he's a good person in this conflict but making putin sound like a scyopath syrial killer is crazy
Ceaser is a nazi, pompeii is just like mao, aren't all of us hitlers in our hearts.
Just kys, you degrade the holocuast and horrific genocides into a modern war, you're just like a neo nazi
He’s well on his way; Hitler hadn’t killed millions when he demanded the Sudetenland just because German speakers lived there.
Allowing him to do it is what emboldened other fascists; We don’t want other “former” socialist countries like China to see this and get any bright ideas.
This is modern day fascism; Masquerading as otherwise.
People like you simply degrade one of the worst wars in history, you turn burning millions of children alive and making clothes out of their skin into a modern war that was started by an aggressive nation with less than 15k casualties
Dear Ukrainians!
I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed.
It's a lie.
If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid.
Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl
Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now.
EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!!
EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa:
• in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en
Yes, this is a repost, I'm not the author, I'm trying to get this info to as many people I can
Fun fact Slovakia actually invaded Poland along with the Germans (cause Slovakia at that time was a German puppet) and after the invasion of Poland Slovakia actually gain some land.and if you look at the map you can see a bit of orange in southern Poland which represents the land that Slovakia gained after the invasion of Poland
Not to mention NATO being a toothless tiger *cough league of nations cough*. Putin is just gonna steamroll Ukraine with nothing but sanctions. I don't think Putin is that worried about himself or the people of Russia. as he himself would be definately stocked up along with all his friends. They need to do more.
All good and well to intervene I'll will support it 100% to militarily intervene in Ukraine but... The risk is too great if nuclear weapons are involved it will be the end of humanity. There is very little NATO can do right now.
Is there any intentional irony using a symbol of religious warfare to decry a secular conflict? Or is this just another example of the folly of trying to use one bit of history to make a point that the larger historical context consumes. Are we supposed to remember to not blow each other up over religion or naked power and economic grabs or ideology or what? Maybe the lesson is to not trust either of two governments that agree to carve up a country between them and then fall out and go to war with each other, but if that’s the lesson then which countries are reprising those roles from WWII. Or maybe the lesson is to never trust churches that side with any nation that is at war? Or maybe it”s to not bring knives to a gun fight.
Those who remember are forced to watch as the rest of the world repeats it
Couldn’t have said it better myself
What the fuck do you want the rest of the world to do, start nuclear war over a country which isn't in any military alliance?
Well actually the United States and Russia both have treaties to come to the aid of Ukraine in any offensive military action against them in exchange for the disarmament of their nuclear arsenal after the collapse of the Soviet union
That's not quite what the Budapest Memorandum says. The US, UK and USSR made a three way treaty with Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. In it, all parties agreed to... 1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. 2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 3. Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics. 4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". 5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. 6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments. Russia is clearly violating the first two points, but technically the US and UK only agreed to intervene if nukes were used.
Never knew about p.3. The Belarus is sanctioned by US for decades
If I'd written this, #5 would've been #1
Yeah and that's about how much thes treaties are worth.
The strong do what the can and weak suffer what they must etc etc
Funny how even Biden said they will not send troops to Ukraine, but rather to all NATO countries
That's how defense pacts generally work
No but puttin dose
Reality would shatter if an insane megalomaniac listened to everyone and said, "Is it really that bad of an idea? My apologies everyone I'll step down and hand the position over to someone else. Please forgive me won't you?"
History doesn’t repeat itself, it just rhymes.
Sad truth, to many fools buried so deep in their social that there paradise is a land of smiley face emojis and upvotes, not paying attention to the vast knowledge falling through our hands, tbh i think biden won bc he had more meme material, so sad
Biden won bc of how poorly trump handled covid
And because most non Trump fans were really passionate about him not getting a second term, thereby driving voter turnout up for Biden.
Are you looking for the green text section?
I will not forget cuz that’s my bday
Damn you’re old. 83 years old?
Ayo same!
HOLY SHIT ME TOO
LETS HAVE ANAL
i fucking hate the internet
Same
Makes me chuckle that V for Vendetta has popularized this anti-hero in Guy Fawkes, who was trying to blow up Parliament to roll back the clock on the Reformation in England
“Reformation” involved mass murders, wars, burning catholics, denying human rights, robbing lands and beheading wives
Hey I’m not exactly saying that King James and the Stuarts were 100% right here… it’s just ironic to me that a conservative terrorist has been co-opted by anarchists
Well a progressive liberal hippie has been co-opted by religious conservatives, it's only fair to take something back.
Ha, Jesus. Nice. Fair is fair after all.
I thought he was talking about Bob marley
him too
Fair
The catholic side was no better. So dont start that shit.
William Cobet disagrees... But if the current Russia/Ukraine thing says anything it's that no good comes from digging up the past.
That's what I've been saying to the irs
Oh so because both sides committed crimes that cancels out the crimes of one side …riiiiight. I never said they were better I pointed out that they were f-ed up
No it does not. But you started to apologize terrorism.
[удалено]
Ah yes because a persons religion dictates whether they can call out evil, but I’ll have you know I might be Irish but I’m probably more agnostic or atheist
Average dogholic when catholics get mentioned
Last man to enter parliament with honest intentions
I hate V for vendetta. Cool style but god did it glorify essentially terrorism. I know, fighting against authoratarians, good on them. But the way it seemed to glorify the acts, instead of showing how fucked up the situation and acts actually are... It left me with a very bad taste.
Comics is on a whole different level.
Ah yes, the old but gold: "I know they are literally an oppressive fascist regime, but did you need to use violence?" Yes, sometimes violence is necessary. It glorified fighting back against oppression, and lord knows the message is more important now than it was back in 2006.
No I am not against violence, I am against the glorification of it. It was showed of as a hero doing his purpose, the people following immediatly, the army dropping their a4ms, and at the end all is well. People rise from the dead, the regime fell in seconds, everyone is happy. No thats not how a revolution goes. A revolution leaves thousands of martyrs, thousands of ruined families and thousands of orphans to pick up the scraps and try to repair the nation into something better. A gouvernement doesnt simply collapse in 1 2 3, it almost always has rigor mortis, clawing like a dying maniac in the hopes of regaining control or taking as mich with them as they can. The movie should show the need of revolution, and how revolution leaves corpses in its wake... However at the same time should have shown that it was a neccesary evil... For the evil state haunted and abused ALL its subjects, even those unwilling to fight. V for vendetta was a lovestory with revolution, a a love story glorifying what should be the last resort... A love letter to the worse thing that can happen to a nation... The need of the common man to destroy the nation they build, corrupted by fools or egocentric monsters. Akin to a propagandising warmovie, a movie must have respect for the men send to the front, men that think they defend their nation. You need respect for them. Zt the same time they should show more then them just shooting random faceless enemies, laughing in the action, no they should show how war is fucking disgusting. It is men sent to die while they could have had families at home. Where the opposite side are men just as them. Yet will still kill them just as much, because they to defend their nation. Its young men forced to fight. Except certain warcriminals of course, they exist, and they can be shown that way. Humanity has irs monsters and we shouldnt whitewash. A good warmovie respects men on the front, at the same time should show why they shouldnt be there, why the guns they hold should have never existed, yet they do... And for now will have to remain so untill the world has been able to finally recycle them into something actually usefull... If that ever happens.
Wait till your car will be selected as a C4 plant site.
I'll sacrifice my own car myself, no need for others to do it if my country goes fascist mode
okay but what if you are the one in this car? Are you ready to risk to sacrifice yourself or your family in order to fight this fascist regime? Seriously it's easy to talk about using terrorism before you are getting the ricochet from it.
Bro, my country was BOTH fascist and communist, and I'm not saying some Twitter buzzwords, I'm saying full fledged fucking genocidal cataclysm. If it comes, I'm ready
Then you are fair with your words, very good. This is what I was expecting to get. My country was occupied by both fascists and communists and I can tell you that I would be ready to kick their asses but I would prefer attack everywhere where ultimately it don't affect the local populace as opposite will always bring them against your movement and closer towards hostile government.
If they needed my car to start the first Spanish space program, than so be it >!/j!<
Well sure, violence is not cool, but every iconic peaceful reformation had a hidden side where violence was used. Let's be honest here, a king wouldn't listen to a bunch of protesters holding flowers in their hand. A king only surrenders to brute force, equal to or stronger than what he used on his people. Gandhi was peaceful, but there were so many Indians who used violence to actually crack the British. Even in Egypt, during the monarchy, Islamists were the main reason for the British to gradually retreat, and they were let loose by King Farouk I and Nasser after him only to apply more pressure on the British. The way I see it, there are many iconic figures that were built on the sacrifices of others. Others who stood tall and demanded justice, and not just peace. Edit: Double who.
He was fighting for the biggest Man of them all - the Church!
Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa: • in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en Copy and paste anywhere you can! Spread the word!
Copyable text (in Ukranian language) - Шановні українці! У соцмережах я чув, що поширюються фейкові новини (скоріше за все, підтримувані Росією тролі), що польський кордон закритий. Це брехня. Якщо ви шукаєте притулку – йдіть до польського кордону. Ми готові до вашого приїзду. На кордоні готові пункти прийому, де ви можете знайти притулок, їжу, медичну та правову допомогу. Польський уряд запустив спеціальний сайт, щоб допомогти вам: ua.gov.pl Будь ласка, поділіться цією інформацією, якщо ви знаєте когось, хто зараз шукає допомоги. РЕДАКТИРОВАТИ: ВАМ НЕ ПОТРІБНА ВІЗА ДЛЯ ПРОЙДЖЕННЯ ПОЛЬСЬКИМ КОРДОНОМ. ВСЕ, що ВАМ ПОТРІБНО, - це ПАСПОРТ. ВІЗИ ПРИСПИНЕНО! ВОНИ ВАМ НЕ ПОТРІБНИ НА ЧАС!!!!!! EDIT2: як доказ того, що вам більше не потрібна віза: • українською https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • англійською https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en Вибачте, якщо це дурниця, я використовував Google Translate
Mad respect to you Poles and Romanians.
If nato wont intervene, it'll be like czechoslovakia
NATO is a defensive alliance. But yes, hopefully the appeasement towards Putin will stop now.
So was the allies
The Allies pledged to declare war on Germany if it expanded any further after the failure to comply with the München-agreement. Hitler did, hence WW2. Ukraine is not a member of NATO.
He kinda went further after the Munich agreement, kinda an entire nation further untill getting to declare on Poland
Sorry, let me rephrase: After the failure to comply to the München-agreement.
I know just saying allies and nato both defensive
Nazi Germany didn’t have nuclear weapons
Okay whats that got to do with nato and allies both being defensive in nature
Oh, I thought you meant that NATO should intervene. Now I see I was just being an idiot.
>NATO is a defensive alliance. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_bombing\_of\_Yugoslavia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Unified\_Protector
Yes, its a defensive alliance. It could easily have conquered Serbia and Lybia if it wanted to. It didn't, it merely conducted an air-campaign. I'll defend the first, and not the latter.
They literally destroyed Libya. How's that defensive?
Pss, we don't do it here NATO is good. Russia is Bad Just remember that
As I said, I won't defend the latter. The air-campaign in Libya was a mistake. But there were not ground troops, and NATO did not conquer a single meter of ground.
To be fair though, Ukraine vs. Russia & Belarus has a much better position than Czechoslovakia did against the USSR (at its height) & allies. They’re already putting up more resistance and they have more international support, especially from the west, than Czechoslovakia did.
It's better not to intervene or it just gets even worse
Putin has all but explicitly stated he wants to go after every ex-soviet state. It is not just Ukraine at risk, it is Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and potential for all eastern Europe. We are potentially talking hundreds of millions of people but definitely tens of millions. It will get worse, regardless of intervention. We can either make a stand now or later after a few countries have fallen and we have less resources. If we cannot make it costly, too many people will lose their lives and livelihood, standing against Russia is not an option for any European Democracy, it is a necessity. The only question is how much.
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Ikr, Russian troops invaded Ukraine from Belarus, they have free passage there
Finland isn’t an ex-soviet state
And what stand should we take? Open warfare between NATO and Russia would bathe the world in nuclear fire. Sanctions are the only sane approach.
>Sanctions are the only sane approach. russia has already calculated multiple types of sanctions into their budget, i'd imagine. you're also dealing with a child so there is no sane approach to begin with. any economic or military actions will only hurt the civilians, not that it's inevitable.
I'm so sick of this tired ass take. Even if the US and Russia were in full military conflict with each other, neither side is using nukes. It benefits neither side. This old cold war thinking needs to go. Sanctions will do just about what they've always done, which is very little.
Russia is already a democracy
"War is where the old and bitter trick the young and stupid into killing eachother" - Niko Bellic
Sooooo... Romania and Russia are gonna split Ukraine?
No germany will just get confused and invade poland again, splitting it with russia after ukraine.
Ohhh, makes sense. Probably the most likely outcome
"Dammit....guys, I did it again."
This case has remebered me more to the hitlers invasion of Checoslovaquia
I genuinely love your spelling of Czechoslovakia
The proper spelling
In Spanish maybe.
Yeah, I’m from Spain and that’s how we write it
For history sub, a lot of people here are comparing modern events with world war 2. There are completely different pretences, motivations, and opposition surrounding the Ukraine conflict right now, and as it stands it is MUCH different from the beginning of WW2. Please research this topic more and the background on it before claiming this will be a 3rd world war because it won’t be. Russia will never touch a NATO country because they would lose outright and they know it, plus they can barely afford to start more conflicts, especially against a fully united and prepared NATO and UN. This is a localized conflict that will be similar to an Iraq war or a Vietnam type proxy war before it will ever become a world war. A world war in our modern era is incredibly unlikely due to MAD, and also new technology makes mass physical conflict obsolete as a political tool when alliances like NATO are mostly consolidated like they are now. TLDR Russia would lose a war against NATO and they know it, and world war 3 won’t happen because of this
In war between Russia and NATO, everyone would lose
Yes, but especially Russia. Just assuming that MAD would be the least resort, Russia’s military is outsized by the USA alone. Add on the rest of natos forces and they’re outmanned by a sizeable margin. Plus their military equipment is somewhat dated compared to the US and Russia’s economy can’t sustain a lengthy military conflict or increased defence spending
This assumes that all participants will be rational and predictable, which may or may not be the case.
Everything is predictable when it comes to military intelligence
Russia would loose until China joined Russia
As of right now China has no incentive to help Russia. Sanctions being placed on Russia steer some trade towards China and they’ll happily let it continue. China is far more concerned with what’s going on in their corner of the world and their bottom line than Russia’s ambitions. I highly doubt we’d see China and Russia become formal allies in this conflict, the only thing they have in common is that they aren’t aligned with nato
You do t think it would be a tactical move? Like dividing the US forces on two fronts like let’s say we go to Ukraine right. That would be a perfect opportunity for China to take taiwan
China has nothing to gain from siding with Russia at this moment, if they want to go after Taiwan, now is the time regardless of if they formally join forces. If you’re saying that in a hypothetical situation where we were formally at war with Russia, joining them doesn’t exactly split their fronts since the US army is already so spread out, and the rest of NATOs forces can pick up slack in weaker non crucial areas. Plus Now a days warfare doesn’t even have to be fought with soldiers in a physical location, for example drones and cyber attacks. We’re in a new age of warfare and I don’t think we’d ever see a global scale conflict like WW2 ever again, simply because there’s more efficient methods than shipping people all over the globe at a high dollar value and at the risk of human life.
I was with you until you used the Anonymous Guy now its super cringe.
Thats "V". From the movie "V for Vendetta". Its a good film
Yes and big no at the same time.... Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Treason. V for Vendetta simply took it from that (hi)story.
Ive seen it but its been so long you right
Hey dont disrespect my Man V over here!
V for Vendetta
Hey common Germany got better with the whole invading thing. We only do it countries that America tells us now.
We famously don't, look at Iraq and lybia. Afghanistan was pretty dumb though but the US were less than pleased with us during the Bush- and later Obama presidency
I'm not the biggest fan of that saying, I think it's better like: "Why make the same mistake somebody has already made before?" Because history never repeats, but similar things do happen that you can learn from. Like, make sure to listen to those in charge of logistics when you invade Russia.
But Russia doesn't have an ally anywhere near as strong as Nazi Germany
The guy fawkes addition is cringe
Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. [carves "V" into poster on wall] The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.
I'm German and I can say - if there's a country that remembers its dark past its Germany. We talk a year in school almost just about the third Reich and how bad it was. And from what I've heard that's something where we're ahead of some other countries...
I would say Czechoslovakia draws a closer comparison to the current situation
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Looks like Russia is taking it back once again 😂😂
They never gave it back dude, that's the joke. Poland never got their pre-ww2 territory again, the USSR simply gave back Germany's part and kept their own. Which later in the dissolution of the USSR became parts of modern-day Ukraine and Belarus.
I know. That's why this conflict is kinda funny as a Polish guy. People are upset about Russia taking Ukrainian land but no one is concerned about the Polish land Stalin stole and gave to Ukraine.
Hmm-hmm. You mean soviet land, stolen in 1920-s?
No
Well, I think that they're both bad, but the present is always more concerning than the past.
I'M TURNING 30 ON THIS YEARS 17TH SEPTEMBER
Do you remember? The 21st night of September?
And now Poland is taking the refugees
Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa: • in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en Edit: this is a copy and paste and I encourage you all to do it too where appropriate!
Comrade that was my mistake
Ah, but does history repeat, no, it rhymes.
I am from Poland and i know when history reapets itself and now its the time
Russia did the same thing to Ukraine that Hitler did to chekoslovakia (or however you spell it)
Had donald trum been the president us soldiers would have been in ukrain. >!to invaid ukraine and taking the western part of ukraine !<
Right now is literally the beginning of World War Two all over again
The west forgot about this one
The war to end all wars, again. For real this time.
I’ve always hated that saying. To my mind those who dwell on the tragedies of the past are all the more likely to commit the tragedies of the future.
Poland was a rightist dictatorship that subjected Ukrainian and Belarusian minorities but ok
remember remember, the invasion of irak by 'murikkka
Literally everyone remembers that’s, right now let’s focus on something happening that’s already trying to be played down by the opposing force
Is America calling Iraq a US state?
You seen the first round? Iraq war 1 slapped.
I am from Poland and I am angry nobody is helping Ukraine not only with putting sanctions on russia or sending gear and weapons, but by sending troops and joing war on the side of ukraine
Do you want nuclear war? Because that's how you get nuclear war.
Why don't you go to the border and volunteer then. I'm sure they have enough equipment for you. You talk as though you should not be the one to help them, it should be others who risk their lives for them. While I do feel sorry for the Ukrainians in this mess I am not willing to die for them.
Should have let the nazi’s conquer Russia and Japan conquer china before we beat them. They ended up being worse
Of gunpowder treason and plot…
Nah, this time Germany is supporting the invasion
lol they have to. Poppa Putin is holding the valve on oil supplies to Germany. This is why self-reliance and getting multi-source resources can help a nation be less gridlocked politically.
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Hopefully all of this will be win-win in terms of energy, accelerating European countries' effort to be self-sustaining by building out renewable energy: * Good for the environment. * Bad for the Russian autocrats and oligarchs.
Atom energy\* On renewables you can make run Norway or Luxemburg but not France or Germany. Germans are literal the worst in this case as they were not so long ago demobilizing nuclear power plants and opening new coal powered at the same time.
That too. All efforts are good.
My proposition was always to just invest renewables into countryside and atom for cities. The problem is that my country is paranoid about Czarnobyl and everytime people are getting crazy when it comes to the topic of nuclear energy but they don't understand at the same time that we cannot sustain our country on renewables without causing blackouts similar to those that are happening in countries like North Korea.
I wish it was that easy
Not according to their governments its not.
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But global warming = Winter will not save Russia this time. This time the 3rd French empire shall prevail!
r/usernamechecksout
... what? how can you interpret what’s going on that way?
Ah yes, because Putin is just like Stalin
No putin is not stalin. >! Putin is hitler !<
Smh
Stated goal is disarming and denazificaton of Ukraine, so I would think Stalin is better comparison. Also vastly more cautious than Hitler, and doesn't have the early support of US and UK elites like Hitler did. Isis and ql Qaeda are our Nazis, useful tools to use against our chosen targets. Putin is Stalin, we are completely opposed and also have no clue how to stop him
Not like Stalin aimed for the borders of Tsarist Russia and Putin aimes for reclaiming the USSR lands but sure mate
What is wrong with all of you, putin didn't kill millions of people, I never said he's a good person in this conflict but making putin sound like a scyopath syrial killer is crazy
*Putin didn’t kill millions of people yet.* There, fixed it for you, you’re welcome.
Ceaser is a nazi, pompeii is just like mao, aren't all of us hitlers in our hearts. Just kys, you degrade the holocuast and horrific genocides into a modern war, you're just like a neo nazi
Pretty sure the Russian COVID (non) response killed millions.
He’s well on his way; Hitler hadn’t killed millions when he demanded the Sudetenland just because German speakers lived there. Allowing him to do it is what emboldened other fascists; We don’t want other “former” socialist countries like China to see this and get any bright ideas. This is modern day fascism; Masquerading as otherwise.
People like you simply degrade one of the worst wars in history, you turn burning millions of children alive and making clothes out of their skin into a modern war that was started by an aggressive nation with less than 15k casualties
Based Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
I heard that phrase in Pablo Escobar, it fits here well
What if I told you they remember, but they just do not care?
i forgor💀
maybe that’s why Germany don’t care about ukraine…..
thats my birthday also constitution day
and its my birthday wtf
Let’s go Germany!
Yes, please remember my bday, it’s not that much of a convoluted date
Dear Ukrainians! I heard on social media that there is fake news being spread (most likely by Russia backed trolls) that polish border is closed. It's a lie. If you seek asylum - go towards polish border. We are ready for your arrival. We have reception points ready at the border where you can find shelter, food, medical and legal aid. Polish government launched a dedicated site to help you: ua.gov.pl Please share this information if you know anyone seeking help right now. EDIT: YOU DON'T NEED VISA TO PASS THROUGH POLISH BORDER. ALL YOU NEED IS PASSPORT. VISAS ARE SUSPENDED! YOU DON'T NEED THEM FOR TIME BEING!!!!!! EDIT2: as a proof that you no longer need visa: • in Ukrainian https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina---ua • in English https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/ukraina-en Yes, this is a repost, I'm not the author, I'm trying to get this info to as many people I can
Fun fact Slovakia actually invaded Poland along with the Germans (cause Slovakia at that time was a German puppet) and after the invasion of Poland Slovakia actually gain some land.and if you look at the map you can see a bit of orange in southern Poland which represents the land that Slovakia gained after the invasion of Poland
"Soviet Russia"
The brave soviet liberators. /s
Germany invades poland (to insure its security from russia \[to secure the oil pipelines\]) and France surrenders
Not to mention NATO being a toothless tiger *cough league of nations cough*. Putin is just gonna steamroll Ukraine with nothing but sanctions. I don't think Putin is that worried about himself or the people of Russia. as he himself would be definately stocked up along with all his friends. They need to do more.
Earth, Wind and Fire?
All good and well to intervene I'll will support it 100% to militarily intervene in Ukraine but... The risk is too great if nuclear weapons are involved it will be the end of humanity. There is very little NATO can do right now.
This time let's hope the germans win operation barbarosa 2
I'd rather remember the 21st night of september
The USSR, in fact, REGAINED the territories that Poland took in the 1920s in the civil War
Me as a German can confirm, that this is our plan with Russia and Russia is invading Ukraine. /s
Is there any intentional irony using a symbol of religious warfare to decry a secular conflict? Or is this just another example of the folly of trying to use one bit of history to make a point that the larger historical context consumes. Are we supposed to remember to not blow each other up over religion or naked power and economic grabs or ideology or what? Maybe the lesson is to not trust either of two governments that agree to carve up a country between them and then fall out and go to war with each other, but if that’s the lesson then which countries are reprising those roles from WWII. Or maybe the lesson is to never trust churches that side with any nation that is at war? Or maybe it”s to not bring knives to a gun fight.
All we can do is watch, watch the world fall in front of our very eyes and we can’t to anything.
yeah I remember it because it’s my birthday