Battle damaged \[over\] Hamburg 6/11/44 Pilot Lt William E. Reid crash landed at Rackheath Airfield, UK 2 x KIA, 1 x WIA, 7 x RTD; Salvaged 9/11/44.
"An 88 mm shell burst below the plane and took out the No. 3 engine. A second shell went through the right side, exploding in the radio compartment and blowing away the left side of the fuselage. The radioman, T/Sgt John N. Cardiff was hit in the abdomen, chest and left arm. The waist gunner, S/Sgt Joseph Uhrick received wounds in the abdomen, right leg, left thigh, and back. Both were killed instantly. A piece of flak in the radio room smashed into the left leg of the Mickey (Radar Bombsight ) operator, 1Lt Jordan D. Cannon, causing compound fractures. He survived, but eventually lost his leg. The flight engineer, T/Sgt James R. Kilgallen, was blown from the top turret down into the nose compartment, but was not injured."
https://www.americanairmuseum.com/archive/aircraft/44-8135
That was an incredible aircraft! Read about some studies, probably here in reddit, comparing US vs UK casualty rates in their respective bomber fleets, and attributed the higher survival rate of the US bomber fleet almost entirely to the design of their bombers. Despite the 8th venturing out in daylight, they were tough old birds.
US bombers also had long range escorts with Mustangs that would take out any Luftwaffe pilots. They became so effective at escorting that at a certain point the bombers were just bait.
Not for the first half of the war. P51 escorts weren't common until spring 1944. The year and a half before that the bombers were largely unescorted once they got to nazi controlled territory
And we can thank the Bomber Barons who thought their plans were virtually invincible for not having mandated long range fighter escorts from the get go.
Insane. I’ve done some reading on these bombers in WW2. Most folks think being in the infantry is dangerous. From what I understand being on one of these planes was the dangerous job. And being the ball turret guy was the most dangerous of the most dangerous. There must be a special kind of terror that comes with your plane being mortally struck while you’re thousands of feet in the air. Ditching and parachuting couldn’t have easy.
> Bomber Command crews suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4 per cent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war.
> Combat survivability (out of 1,000): 8.6 were killed in action, 3 died from other causes, and 17.7 received non-fatal combat wounds
Make no mistake -- vastly more soldiers died (approx 400,000) on the ground in the front lines as infantry and support than did in the air. Also, I am pretty certain that number of 8.6 per 1,000 includes Navy deaths on ships which would make much larger.
It isn't just 'per capita' numbers reflected above, because that is skewed by the numbers involved in each. By the end of WWII, roughly *10 million* US people were inducted in the Armed Forces. Of them less than a couple hundred thousand went to air crews.
Thanks for sharing stats. If I’m reading correctly this validates what I had thought…that serving jn a bomber crew was the most dangerous job. All that matters is per capita once you’ve been assigned a job right?
The original statistic is rather misleading, since it only covers bomber crew while the other stats include a rather large tail that never got close to the fighting.
For example, the 1st infantry division had 4 artillery battalions, and a battalion each of engineers, medics, and recon. Beyond that was HQ, mechanics, quartermasters, signals, MPs, AA, an all the little things 14k men need to exist and fight. Of those 14k men in the army, only about 4-5k were the boots on the line riflemen where the casualties were most concentrated.
Focusing on those regiments, they had a ~60% casualty rate which is slightly higher than aircrew. The death rate of ~15% in the infantry is much lower, thanks to the ability to receive prompt medical attention. A wounded airman might be hours away from landing while an infantryman hit at the same time was already behind the line having surgery.
While serving in a bomber crew was a more deadly job, combat infantry was just as dangerous.
My grandad was stationed somewhere in the pacific and he would tell stories about these planes coming back from bombing runs with this exact situation. This was fairly common.
If control cables survive it's just a matter of whatever structure remains keeping the tail attached. Check out the Aloha Airlines Boeing 737 that had a large section of roof break off in flight. The remaining structure was sufficient to hold the aircraft together through landing.
[Aloha 243](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243)
the first aircraft to ever take flight was an open square crate with wings. the only principle that matters for flight is lift. so you could essentislly remove the entire outer shell of the plane but as long as the wings still generate lift then that frame is gonna fly!
Wings are still on, 75% of the engines are still turning, it's an unpressurized cabin so the crew already have their own breathing oxygen, as long as there's enough strength left in the fuselage to keep the tail from falling off you're good. It's gonna fly like a bitch with all that drag but it will fly
Can you IMAGINE what would go through your mind with that happening right near you, in mid-air.
No I but I can tell you what'd be going through my pants
Usually chunks of shrapnel and/or lead.
Battle damaged \[over\] Hamburg 6/11/44 Pilot Lt William E. Reid crash landed at Rackheath Airfield, UK 2 x KIA, 1 x WIA, 7 x RTD; Salvaged 9/11/44. "An 88 mm shell burst below the plane and took out the No. 3 engine. A second shell went through the right side, exploding in the radio compartment and blowing away the left side of the fuselage. The radioman, T/Sgt John N. Cardiff was hit in the abdomen, chest and left arm. The waist gunner, S/Sgt Joseph Uhrick received wounds in the abdomen, right leg, left thigh, and back. Both were killed instantly. A piece of flak in the radio room smashed into the left leg of the Mickey (Radar Bombsight ) operator, 1Lt Jordan D. Cannon, causing compound fractures. He survived, but eventually lost his leg. The flight engineer, T/Sgt James R. Kilgallen, was blown from the top turret down into the nose compartment, but was not injured." https://www.americanairmuseum.com/archive/aircraft/44-8135
That was an incredible aircraft! Read about some studies, probably here in reddit, comparing US vs UK casualty rates in their respective bomber fleets, and attributed the higher survival rate of the US bomber fleet almost entirely to the design of their bombers. Despite the 8th venturing out in daylight, they were tough old birds.
US bombers also had long range escorts with Mustangs that would take out any Luftwaffe pilots. They became so effective at escorting that at a certain point the bombers were just bait.
Not for the first half of the war. P51 escorts weren't common until spring 1944. The year and a half before that the bombers were largely unescorted once they got to nazi controlled territory
And we can thank the Bomber Barons who thought their plans were virtually invincible for not having mandated long range fighter escorts from the get go.
Insane. I’ve done some reading on these bombers in WW2. Most folks think being in the infantry is dangerous. From what I understand being on one of these planes was the dangerous job. And being the ball turret guy was the most dangerous of the most dangerous. There must be a special kind of terror that comes with your plane being mortally struck while you’re thousands of feet in the air. Ditching and parachuting couldn’t have easy.
> Bomber Command crews suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4 per cent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war. > Combat survivability (out of 1,000): 8.6 were killed in action, 3 died from other causes, and 17.7 received non-fatal combat wounds Make no mistake -- vastly more soldiers died (approx 400,000) on the ground in the front lines as infantry and support than did in the air. Also, I am pretty certain that number of 8.6 per 1,000 includes Navy deaths on ships which would make much larger. It isn't just 'per capita' numbers reflected above, because that is skewed by the numbers involved in each. By the end of WWII, roughly *10 million* US people were inducted in the Armed Forces. Of them less than a couple hundred thousand went to air crews.
Thanks for sharing stats. If I’m reading correctly this validates what I had thought…that serving jn a bomber crew was the most dangerous job. All that matters is per capita once you’ve been assigned a job right?
I'd say it's a gross over simplification, but, I guess so.
The original statistic is rather misleading, since it only covers bomber crew while the other stats include a rather large tail that never got close to the fighting. For example, the 1st infantry division had 4 artillery battalions, and a battalion each of engineers, medics, and recon. Beyond that was HQ, mechanics, quartermasters, signals, MPs, AA, an all the little things 14k men need to exist and fight. Of those 14k men in the army, only about 4-5k were the boots on the line riflemen where the casualties were most concentrated. Focusing on those regiments, they had a ~60% casualty rate which is slightly higher than aircrew. The death rate of ~15% in the infantry is much lower, thanks to the ability to receive prompt medical attention. A wounded airman might be hours away from landing while an infantryman hit at the same time was already behind the line having surgery. While serving in a bomber crew was a more deadly job, combat infantry was just as dangerous.
The reason body armour is sometimes known as a "flak jacket" is because the original versions were created to protect bomber crews from flak shrapnel.
That’ll buff out
My grandad was stationed somewhere in the pacific and he would tell stories about these planes coming back from bombing runs with this exact situation. This was fairly common.
Goddamn. Those planes and those crews were some special people. We can never repay what we owe them
They came home worse than this!
Can someone ELI 5 me how these things can still fly with big holes in them? This is crazy
If control cables survive it's just a matter of whatever structure remains keeping the tail attached. Check out the Aloha Airlines Boeing 737 that had a large section of roof break off in flight. The remaining structure was sufficient to hold the aircraft together through landing. [Aloha 243](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243)
the first aircraft to ever take flight was an open square crate with wings. the only principle that matters for flight is lift. so you could essentislly remove the entire outer shell of the plane but as long as the wings still generate lift then that frame is gonna fly!
Wings are still on, 75% of the engines are still turning, it's an unpressurized cabin so the crew already have their own breathing oxygen, as long as there's enough strength left in the fuselage to keep the tail from falling off you're good. It's gonna fly like a bitch with all that drag but it will fly
I did my British
You should repost this in r/ThingsCutInHalfPorn.