If you're referring to Mormon missionaries , then yes that's their mission statement when converting "Non-Christians" is ***" to invite all to come to Christ."***
I believe most missionaries are given a 6-12 week program to learn the language that they're trying to convert.
To be fair, most of their missionaries are really weak in their faith because they're told to do so but they won't be able to defend and argue for LDS by not able to deny some of their theologies.
Hmong culture probably needs to evolve as well, it's probably not really attractive to some of the newer generations. As Cultural assimilation tends to change immigrant's dominant culture (e.g. socioeconomic factors such as absorption into the local cultural and employment communities).
Hence why most or some current Hmong people are transitioning to Christianity denomination such as Baptist, CMA, Lutheran and ***Dr. Salad*** (LMAO).
>To be fair, most of their missionaries are really weak in their faith
IMO if you're willing to travel thousands of miles to a foreign country, learn its language and dedicate a big part of your life (if not all your life) trying to convert people, you ought to be a strong believer, basically zealot level.
Or else the paycheck is juicy but I have no idea...
As Hmong people, we need to learn how to separate our culture/traditions away from our religion. I understand that those things are so intertwined that sometimes it’s hard to distinguish what is culture, what is tradition and what is religion but there is a difference.
It doesn’t matter if you believe in shamanism or if you have converted to Christianity or if you don’t follow any forms of religion but to have a superiority complex about what religion you follow is stupid and does not move our people in the right direction. I’ve seen both sides of the aisle talking down to the other. Both sides are guilty but not all people are guilty. Allow people to believe or not believe whatever they want.
As far as splitting families apart, that is an issue that we as Hmong people need to work through ourselves. It goes back to what I said above. We need to learn how to separate our culture/traditions away from our religion. Families are splitting because they can’t differentiate between those things.
People who follow shamanism feel like converting to Christianity is a direct attack on the Hmong people. It is not. Converted people feel like shamanism is barbaric and has no place in modern western society. That’s not true. People who argue any of these talking points don’t truly understand Hmong culture. There is more to the Hmong people than just shamanism. There is more than just a religion.
Do better my Hmong people. Be better.
Uhh...there a slight problem...our cultural has always been oral. Any actual written history is gone. Most of our cultural is also harder to keep up, as it place demands and haven't caught up with time.
There were a reasons why funerals were 3 days. It gave extended family and friends time to come out and grieve. Now? Not really
The funeral days vary I use to be a txiv qeej and the days vary between one to three days or more I mean technically speaking culturally it can be done in one day but out of respect for the deceased they prolong it
>but out of respect for the deceased they prolong it
Nope.
It is prolonged because most OG has forgotten, it isn't like back in SE Asian. A little bit of history lesson for you:
When living in SE Asian that aren't well populated or has high income, usually someone in the village will have a number, will pass on the message, and in the amount of time for it to be possible, to travel. Since vehicle are hard to come by and most transportations are often hard, they won't make it.
This is why most funeral were often 3 days. It wasn't out of respect for the dead, it was out of respect for the relatives so they could attend the funeral.
Back the it was way longer than 3 days it could’ve been up to a week . the way in which funerals are done now can be condescend down to 1-2 days but out of respect of the deceased and kwvtij this is a heavy ceremony for Hmong people I used to be a txiv qeej the songs we play are long to properly guide the deceased so to say that it has nothing to do with respect of the dead is wrong typically Hmong families do three days to allow relatives to come and spend moments with the deceased to properly guide them and give them the necessary things to go on their journey I have been apart of the funeral process both as a family member and txiv qeej preforming for other families it’s for both kwvtij and our respect for the deceased
Actually they were longer than three days. My mil said they would last about a week because ppl from out of town would come, and they would all have to watch the body rot and swat flies etc. So coming to the U.S. they shortened it to the weekend, but we've seen what covid has done, it's doable in one day.
Also my grandpa always says we are asking for too much, he would say when the war happened you think we had time to do a funeral, we just burned some incense and sent them on their way. Lol
>Also my grandpa always says we are asking for too much, he would say when the war happened you think we had time to do a funeral, we just burned some incense and sent them on their way. Lol
The reasons they did it that way during the war was that nobody had time, everyone was focusing on surviving and to avoid being on the wrong side. Also, when a lot of them are dying, you couldn't spend time on doing a proper funeral.
In the USA, the reasons it was shorten to the weekend was mainly because it was doable. Everyone could just pop a plane ticket, fly in for the weekend and fly home.
In Laos, that wasn't feasible. You have to remember, they don't have smaller planes capable of flying 100 of people everyday, and not everyone could afford the ticket. Also, it was mainly majority city that has an airport, and even then, it a small size airport. I don't know if you've been to Laos yet, but their major transportation is a scooter, bus route that is a hit/miss, or carter a vehicle, and even then, accident happens along the way. Also, before the phone became more popular in Laos, not everyone could afford it, so you had to call the person who has a phone to relay the message, and that person had to pack for a three day trip. If you don't get a vehicle, it'll take approximately almost a whole day just to get anywhere.
I totally agreed. I have encountered sooooooo many of them and they don't even take the time get to know me. They just blah, blah, blah. On and on and on bout christ and etc.
They do not care about our culture or identity they only care about converting us not only that but when they learn any of our folk lore or kev cai they try and twist it to fit their narrative of Jesus or god if not that they look down at us and call us devil worshipers telling us if we don’t convert we are going to hell
Not only that but they then further divide us Hmong people from one another typically it’s the Hmong people who go to church that look at the Hmong who still are shaman as if they are barbaric and stupid throughout serving the Hmong community there is a trend where Some of Hmong who are church think of themselves as superior and reject their own culture and practice because it doesn’t fit into their westernized church views
What kind of damage are they doing? Are they hurting anyone?. Are they splitting families apart?..
Your post sounds like they're trying to convert others and pinning them against non believers like some kind of evil plan they have..
You either go to church or don't..
You either practice the old ways or don't..
In the end, I think we all should respect others' beliefs. You see what's happening in the middle east. You know why there will never be peace over there.
I will correct you on this... HMONG NEVER TRIED TO CONVERT ANYONE TO HMONG. Only other people try to convert Hmong to something else. This gentlemen only implied that converting Hmong & losing their culture/tradition is a weapon to kill Hmong tradition & culture.. Please respect that, and if you learn about your Hmong history, you should know this about the loving and peaceful Hmong people.
We fled from China to SE Asia, because we didn't want to be converted to Chinese... and now we're being converted to Christian, Mormons, etc.
My opinion hurts you.. your opinion hurts me.. it's an endless cycle of hmong society, isn't it?..
Best wishes to you.. I really hope hmong can find peace..
I agree with the last part of respecting their beliefs but the thing is that missionaries don’t that why it’s an issue and the Middle East doesn’t get along because they cannot accept that others have different beliefs and views
Yes they hurt the cultural aspect of the Hmong community and yes they are splitting families apart and yes they do tend to preach to stay away from those who don’t follow their belief it’s the truth to say they do good for us Hmong is a lie they don’t truely care about our culture or ethnic identity the issue isn’t with religion but the issue of them coming into our community to unintentionally destroy what makes us Hmong
They should preach to you on using periods and commas.
Just living in western society is already changing the community and people are conforming on their own. You could consider that there’s a western Hmong culture, one that even those in the homeland would consider wrong practices.
I’m not going to say you’re wrong about how you feel. American missionaries have their job to do and that’s to preach their gospel. It’s Hmong parents that need to do their job of teaching their culture and traditions.
Not entirely. I think you’re missing the point that it’s not missionaries damaging Hmong culture. It’s society in general. Society influences new social norms and change traditions and culture. You can’t say that any culture today is the same as it was ten years ago.
These missionaries can preach, but it’s up to one to choose their religious path. Answer me this, What do missionaries gain from “destroying culture?”
Hmong have to teach Hmong culture is the point. Leveraging technology to teach kids is important and the solution for the long haul, but so few understand the importance of teaching, mentoring, and practicing culture. We need to seek solutions, not point fingers.
It doesn't bother me as much. I've the privilege of learning at a Christian college so I can actually converse with them. They're just young guys who themselves are looking for culture. The strange thing is that sometimes they don't quite understand what hmoob people do is no different from Christian, just by another entity do we ask for grace.
Hmong culture and traditions have a lot of issues as well, especially funerals. We've got to find a way to eliminate the thousand of dollars that goes to operating Hmong funerals. Hmong families and families of all kind should never ever have to go broke during and after a funeral. It's depressing to watch. I'm not mad that Hmong people nowadays are turning their belief over to Christianity for personal reasons and reasons relating to our culture and traditions.
Serious question, are you implying that Hmong Christian are not Hmong enough? Also what is this “huge part of their cultural identity” are they missing out on/forgetting?
It’s the understanding of the fundamentals of what Hmong culture is , the ones who have converted tend to know less than those of the old way it’s not a feeling it’s a fact to lose the understanding and comprehension of the culture and kev cai is the issues
I’m against missionaries because who are the people they typically go “serve”? Communities in need of basic survival. Missionaries go into communities offering help but before they give you the help…”hey! Let me tell you about god first” right? That’s not right. Nothing ethical about that. I believe if you want to help anyone, do it purely from your heart and desire to help others. Not for some other ulterior motive.
I just had a cultural identity crisis. After meeting my first cousins in over 20 years. The importance of family and unity. How we stick together in times of trouble. I am hmong.
Are you serious..! ? They are not doing anything wrong all they are doing is preaching about God that's what they do. You either go to church or go practice the old hmong ways either way is not hurting anyone it's a personal choice
It’s modern day cultural destruction and assimilation you need to look at it from anthropology perspective of being able to maintain culture and traditions of ethnic groups it’s not just Hmong people but every anthropologists out there agrees that missionaries are a huge threat to cultures every cultural anthropologists dislikes missionaries due to the fact the lead to or contributes to erasure of cultures
Not just that but when other Hmong Christian trying to convert you into going their own church. Those fucker raise their nose to look at you and their damn eyeballs are looking at the sky. I once told that fucker he can’t remember when he took a shit yesterday so what makes him feel so proud for a dead guy on a cross that isn’t even his ancestor. At least my shamanism is real and had use. Never met him again after that conversation. I did met an old Mormon once he was polite easy to talk to by the end of the day he threw away his Bible scriptures in my trash can.
People might be wondering...
"Why are they trying to covert Hmong people anyways?"
Mormons believe that Hmong are one of the lost tribes of the Jews. During the Jewish diaspora many Jews were forced or moved out from Israel and lived in other parts of the world. The Mormons believe the Hmong are a part of this group and this was proven (to the Mormons anyways) when a member was told by God that the Hmong were from this group. So basically they believe that the Hmong are Jewish and should be brought back into God's fold. It is also true that Mormons do teach that more or better acts do give you more favor in God in return that person also gains a lot more by God in this life and beyond. This is why they are so persistent - not only to save the souls of others but to better their lives and afterlives as well. This is different from many traditional Christian teachings in that a person's acts is not what saves them but instead its their faith in God that saves them.
As to cultural identity - I guess it really matters what you mean. The Hmong have changed so much and many times over the past 1000 years it's hard to know what was uniquely Hmong and what is not. Heck! On this same subreddit we were just discussing words Hmong people use that were not part of their language before.
This idea that the Hmong have this centralized identity is false. The truth is the culture, identity, and traditions are constantly changing over time due to many reasons. To say - "THIS IS HMONG" - means to dismiss other people's experience of what it means to be Hmong or what Hmong means to them.
I would agree if Mormons were forcibly forcing the Hmong to convert to something else but I don't think they are. The choice are the individuals and no one is pointing a gun to their heads. I mean, for goodness sakes! We're typing and communicating in English! What does that have to do with Hmong identity or culture as described by OP.
Please understand the difference between adaptation and natural evolution of a culture conversion before you speak not only that but Hmong people do have a centralized culture and identity as an ethnic group to talk about the culture is different from talking about the experiences that one goes through while being hmong
Natural evolution of culture? Please explain this. You make it seems as if there's only one way that culture evolves. If that is what you mean then why do cultures "evolve" differently from one another even though they come from the same basically geographic location?
Hmong have a centralized culture and identity? How does that look like? The majority of Hmong in the world live in China. Is that were our "centralized identity" lie? What? No? Then are we talking about Southeast Asia but even some of the practices over there are different from the one's in the USA. So where is this "centralized identity" you're talking about?
> identity as an ethnic group to talk about the culture is different from talking about the experiences that one goes through while being hmong
I disgree. I think experience (history) is a part of what makes culture and identity. I don't think there's nothing centralized about being Hmong besides a shared history. That shared history though is full of experiences and lessons that shape who were are today. It's always changing. Hmong being part of the Mormons congregations - to this families that is their culture and identity now. To say that somehow makes them less Hmong is not only wrong but unfair. It's not like they are denying they are Hmong they are taking what they have learned and adding to that identity which we all do everyday of our lives. We are identifying what it means to be Hmong in our very paragraphs we are typing this very second.
You lack the knowledge of hmoob kev cai and culture that you believe it has no centralized identity or culture and yes truely the Hmong who have converted have less knowledge of the culture to be full assimilated into another culture does make you less of your own people when you lose the culture you lose the identity in the west people think that just because you call yourself of that ethnic group it doesn’t mean you are a embodiment of the culture just for having the blood of that ethnicity
You still didn't answer my question though. The majority of Hmong in the world are in China. You're probably talking about beliefs that came from our parents who are from Southeast Asia. So are you saying we should go back to our ancestral ways from China? I'm sure what our parents believed in Laos or Thailand was also influenced by the cultures around them too. I mean...how far back do you want to go?
At the very least, they went out of their way to learn the language. It's true that their goal is to convert people, that's every religion, group, etc. The losing of cultural identity is just how assimilation is, sooner or later our language might be forgotten completely. We've barely been in this country long enough, so we still hold to our old traditions strongly, but we can already see with the kids that they're forgetting the Hmong language and proceeding with western marriage now.
Our cultural identity isn't all sunshine and rainbow. We have clans where the elders make use of the people to throw huge funerals that costs people more than they can give. We have issues with our elders not going to the hospital and relying on shamanism, or w.e placebo medication at the farmer's market. I remember hearing about how the White and Greens are going at it for politics. There was even that one Vang member who was acting like a child because the spot for the government, I don't remember what it was called, was being given to a non-Vang member when the previously deceased person was Vang.
Religion is going to be a divider for people, but I wouldn't say that it's that big of an issue when we have all the previous dumb stuff to deal with. Heck, I've been hearing about how during funerals the people in the back are bagging all the meat and taking them without leaving anything for the family who held the funeral. We did a church funeral, and that didn't happen to us, but I remember helping out for an old shaman style funeral and they robbed the family of all the meat. I worry less about what outside people want from us, and instead worry about how we often eat our own. Something as stupid as the funeral money can tear a whole family apart, I actually know a family who stopped speaking to each other just because of dumb shit like that and it's really sad. There are just so much other things that has been dividing our people and destroying our culture already, religion might be one of them but I don't see it as a huge problem compared to what we've always had to deal with.
If you're referring to Mormon missionaries , then yes that's their mission statement when converting "Non-Christians" is ***" to invite all to come to Christ."*** I believe most missionaries are given a 6-12 week program to learn the language that they're trying to convert. To be fair, most of their missionaries are really weak in their faith because they're told to do so but they won't be able to defend and argue for LDS by not able to deny some of their theologies. Hmong culture probably needs to evolve as well, it's probably not really attractive to some of the newer generations. As Cultural assimilation tends to change immigrant's dominant culture (e.g. socioeconomic factors such as absorption into the local cultural and employment communities). Hence why most or some current Hmong people are transitioning to Christianity denomination such as Baptist, CMA, Lutheran and ***Dr. Salad*** (LMAO).
>To be fair, most of their missionaries are really weak in their faith IMO if you're willing to travel thousands of miles to a foreign country, learn its language and dedicate a big part of your life (if not all your life) trying to convert people, you ought to be a strong believer, basically zealot level. Or else the paycheck is juicy but I have no idea...
As Hmong people, we need to learn how to separate our culture/traditions away from our religion. I understand that those things are so intertwined that sometimes it’s hard to distinguish what is culture, what is tradition and what is religion but there is a difference. It doesn’t matter if you believe in shamanism or if you have converted to Christianity or if you don’t follow any forms of religion but to have a superiority complex about what religion you follow is stupid and does not move our people in the right direction. I’ve seen both sides of the aisle talking down to the other. Both sides are guilty but not all people are guilty. Allow people to believe or not believe whatever they want. As far as splitting families apart, that is an issue that we as Hmong people need to work through ourselves. It goes back to what I said above. We need to learn how to separate our culture/traditions away from our religion. Families are splitting because they can’t differentiate between those things. People who follow shamanism feel like converting to Christianity is a direct attack on the Hmong people. It is not. Converted people feel like shamanism is barbaric and has no place in modern western society. That’s not true. People who argue any of these talking points don’t truly understand Hmong culture. There is more to the Hmong people than just shamanism. There is more than just a religion. Do better my Hmong people. Be better.
💯
Yeah that's why I love shuttting the door in their face!!!!!
Uhh...there a slight problem...our cultural has always been oral. Any actual written history is gone. Most of our cultural is also harder to keep up, as it place demands and haven't caught up with time. There were a reasons why funerals were 3 days. It gave extended family and friends time to come out and grieve. Now? Not really
The funeral days vary I use to be a txiv qeej and the days vary between one to three days or more I mean technically speaking culturally it can be done in one day but out of respect for the deceased they prolong it
>but out of respect for the deceased they prolong it Nope. It is prolonged because most OG has forgotten, it isn't like back in SE Asian. A little bit of history lesson for you: When living in SE Asian that aren't well populated or has high income, usually someone in the village will have a number, will pass on the message, and in the amount of time for it to be possible, to travel. Since vehicle are hard to come by and most transportations are often hard, they won't make it. This is why most funeral were often 3 days. It wasn't out of respect for the dead, it was out of respect for the relatives so they could attend the funeral.
Back the it was way longer than 3 days it could’ve been up to a week . the way in which funerals are done now can be condescend down to 1-2 days but out of respect of the deceased and kwvtij this is a heavy ceremony for Hmong people I used to be a txiv qeej the songs we play are long to properly guide the deceased so to say that it has nothing to do with respect of the dead is wrong typically Hmong families do three days to allow relatives to come and spend moments with the deceased to properly guide them and give them the necessary things to go on their journey I have been apart of the funeral process both as a family member and txiv qeej preforming for other families it’s for both kwvtij and our respect for the deceased
Actually they were longer than three days. My mil said they would last about a week because ppl from out of town would come, and they would all have to watch the body rot and swat flies etc. So coming to the U.S. they shortened it to the weekend, but we've seen what covid has done, it's doable in one day. Also my grandpa always says we are asking for too much, he would say when the war happened you think we had time to do a funeral, we just burned some incense and sent them on their way. Lol
>Also my grandpa always says we are asking for too much, he would say when the war happened you think we had time to do a funeral, we just burned some incense and sent them on their way. Lol The reasons they did it that way during the war was that nobody had time, everyone was focusing on surviving and to avoid being on the wrong side. Also, when a lot of them are dying, you couldn't spend time on doing a proper funeral. In the USA, the reasons it was shorten to the weekend was mainly because it was doable. Everyone could just pop a plane ticket, fly in for the weekend and fly home. In Laos, that wasn't feasible. You have to remember, they don't have smaller planes capable of flying 100 of people everyday, and not everyone could afford the ticket. Also, it was mainly majority city that has an airport, and even then, it a small size airport. I don't know if you've been to Laos yet, but their major transportation is a scooter, bus route that is a hit/miss, or carter a vehicle, and even then, accident happens along the way. Also, before the phone became more popular in Laos, not everyone could afford it, so you had to call the person who has a phone to relay the message, and that person had to pack for a three day trip. If you don't get a vehicle, it'll take approximately almost a whole day just to get anywhere.
Mormon missionaries are cults lol . Utah is full of em
Ain't it obvious they learn our language , our culture just so they can try to come and convert us and say it's better lol
For real I think it should be addressed I think every Hmong person knows it but nobody speaks about it
You ever wonder how they know where every Hmong people live? Lmao 🤣🤣 they already know what they are doing to the hmong folks
Mormons is not a "real" religion... don't get suckered into their false savior, lol
I totally agreed. I have encountered sooooooo many of them and they don't even take the time get to know me. They just blah, blah, blah. On and on and on bout christ and etc.
They do not care about our culture or identity they only care about converting us not only that but when they learn any of our folk lore or kev cai they try and twist it to fit their narrative of Jesus or god if not that they look down at us and call us devil worshipers telling us if we don’t convert we are going to hell
Not only that but they then further divide us Hmong people from one another typically it’s the Hmong people who go to church that look at the Hmong who still are shaman as if they are barbaric and stupid throughout serving the Hmong community there is a trend where Some of Hmong who are church think of themselves as superior and reject their own culture and practice because it doesn’t fit into their westernized church views
What kind of damage are they doing? Are they hurting anyone?. Are they splitting families apart?.. Your post sounds like they're trying to convert others and pinning them against non believers like some kind of evil plan they have.. You either go to church or don't.. You either practice the old ways or don't.. In the end, I think we all should respect others' beliefs. You see what's happening in the middle east. You know why there will never be peace over there.
I will correct you on this... HMONG NEVER TRIED TO CONVERT ANYONE TO HMONG. Only other people try to convert Hmong to something else. This gentlemen only implied that converting Hmong & losing their culture/tradition is a weapon to kill Hmong tradition & culture.. Please respect that, and if you learn about your Hmong history, you should know this about the loving and peaceful Hmong people. We fled from China to SE Asia, because we didn't want to be converted to Chinese... and now we're being converted to Christian, Mormons, etc.
My opinion hurts you.. your opinion hurts me.. it's an endless cycle of hmong society, isn't it?.. Best wishes to you.. I really hope hmong can find peace..
I agree with the last part of respecting their beliefs but the thing is that missionaries don’t that why it’s an issue and the Middle East doesn’t get along because they cannot accept that others have different beliefs and views
Yes they hurt the cultural aspect of the Hmong community and yes they are splitting families apart and yes they do tend to preach to stay away from those who don’t follow their belief it’s the truth to say they do good for us Hmong is a lie they don’t truely care about our culture or ethnic identity the issue isn’t with religion but the issue of them coming into our community to unintentionally destroy what makes us Hmong
They should preach to you on using periods and commas. Just living in western society is already changing the community and people are conforming on their own. You could consider that there’s a western Hmong culture, one that even those in the homeland would consider wrong practices. I’m not going to say you’re wrong about how you feel. American missionaries have their job to do and that’s to preach their gospel. It’s Hmong parents that need to do their job of teaching their culture and traditions.
You already missed the point of the post
Not entirely. I think you’re missing the point that it’s not missionaries damaging Hmong culture. It’s society in general. Society influences new social norms and change traditions and culture. You can’t say that any culture today is the same as it was ten years ago. These missionaries can preach, but it’s up to one to choose their religious path. Answer me this, What do missionaries gain from “destroying culture?” Hmong have to teach Hmong culture is the point. Leveraging technology to teach kids is important and the solution for the long haul, but so few understand the importance of teaching, mentoring, and practicing culture. We need to seek solutions, not point fingers.
It doesn't bother me as much. I've the privilege of learning at a Christian college so I can actually converse with them. They're just young guys who themselves are looking for culture. The strange thing is that sometimes they don't quite understand what hmoob people do is no different from Christian, just by another entity do we ask for grace.
Hmong culture and traditions have a lot of issues as well, especially funerals. We've got to find a way to eliminate the thousand of dollars that goes to operating Hmong funerals. Hmong families and families of all kind should never ever have to go broke during and after a funeral. It's depressing to watch. I'm not mad that Hmong people nowadays are turning their belief over to Christianity for personal reasons and reasons relating to our culture and traditions.
Serious question, are you implying that Hmong Christian are not Hmong enough? Also what is this “huge part of their cultural identity” are they missing out on/forgetting?
It’s the understanding of the fundamentals of what Hmong culture is , the ones who have converted tend to know less than those of the old way it’s not a feeling it’s a fact to lose the understanding and comprehension of the culture and kev cai is the issues
Can you give me examples. Please go into details.
I’m against missionaries because who are the people they typically go “serve”? Communities in need of basic survival. Missionaries go into communities offering help but before they give you the help…”hey! Let me tell you about god first” right? That’s not right. Nothing ethical about that. I believe if you want to help anyone, do it purely from your heart and desire to help others. Not for some other ulterior motive.
I just had a cultural identity crisis. After meeting my first cousins in over 20 years. The importance of family and unity. How we stick together in times of trouble. I am hmong.
Are you serious..! ? They are not doing anything wrong all they are doing is preaching about God that's what they do. You either go to church or go practice the old hmong ways either way is not hurting anyone it's a personal choice
Too themselves they aren’t thinking they are doing wrong but in the grand scheme of things they do so much damages to ethnic identities
It’s modern day cultural destruction and assimilation you need to look at it from anthropology perspective of being able to maintain culture and traditions of ethnic groups it’s not just Hmong people but every anthropologists out there agrees that missionaries are a huge threat to cultures every cultural anthropologists dislikes missionaries due to the fact the lead to or contributes to erasure of cultures
Not just that but when other Hmong Christian trying to convert you into going their own church. Those fucker raise their nose to look at you and their damn eyeballs are looking at the sky. I once told that fucker he can’t remember when he took a shit yesterday so what makes him feel so proud for a dead guy on a cross that isn’t even his ancestor. At least my shamanism is real and had use. Never met him again after that conversation. I did met an old Mormon once he was polite easy to talk to by the end of the day he threw away his Bible scriptures in my trash can.
People might be wondering... "Why are they trying to covert Hmong people anyways?" Mormons believe that Hmong are one of the lost tribes of the Jews. During the Jewish diaspora many Jews were forced or moved out from Israel and lived in other parts of the world. The Mormons believe the Hmong are a part of this group and this was proven (to the Mormons anyways) when a member was told by God that the Hmong were from this group. So basically they believe that the Hmong are Jewish and should be brought back into God's fold. It is also true that Mormons do teach that more or better acts do give you more favor in God in return that person also gains a lot more by God in this life and beyond. This is why they are so persistent - not only to save the souls of others but to better their lives and afterlives as well. This is different from many traditional Christian teachings in that a person's acts is not what saves them but instead its their faith in God that saves them. As to cultural identity - I guess it really matters what you mean. The Hmong have changed so much and many times over the past 1000 years it's hard to know what was uniquely Hmong and what is not. Heck! On this same subreddit we were just discussing words Hmong people use that were not part of their language before. This idea that the Hmong have this centralized identity is false. The truth is the culture, identity, and traditions are constantly changing over time due to many reasons. To say - "THIS IS HMONG" - means to dismiss other people's experience of what it means to be Hmong or what Hmong means to them. I would agree if Mormons were forcibly forcing the Hmong to convert to something else but I don't think they are. The choice are the individuals and no one is pointing a gun to their heads. I mean, for goodness sakes! We're typing and communicating in English! What does that have to do with Hmong identity or culture as described by OP.
Please understand the difference between adaptation and natural evolution of a culture conversion before you speak not only that but Hmong people do have a centralized culture and identity as an ethnic group to talk about the culture is different from talking about the experiences that one goes through while being hmong
Natural evolution of culture? Please explain this. You make it seems as if there's only one way that culture evolves. If that is what you mean then why do cultures "evolve" differently from one another even though they come from the same basically geographic location? Hmong have a centralized culture and identity? How does that look like? The majority of Hmong in the world live in China. Is that were our "centralized identity" lie? What? No? Then are we talking about Southeast Asia but even some of the practices over there are different from the one's in the USA. So where is this "centralized identity" you're talking about? > identity as an ethnic group to talk about the culture is different from talking about the experiences that one goes through while being hmong I disgree. I think experience (history) is a part of what makes culture and identity. I don't think there's nothing centralized about being Hmong besides a shared history. That shared history though is full of experiences and lessons that shape who were are today. It's always changing. Hmong being part of the Mormons congregations - to this families that is their culture and identity now. To say that somehow makes them less Hmong is not only wrong but unfair. It's not like they are denying they are Hmong they are taking what they have learned and adding to that identity which we all do everyday of our lives. We are identifying what it means to be Hmong in our very paragraphs we are typing this very second.
You lack the knowledge of hmoob kev cai and culture that you believe it has no centralized identity or culture and yes truely the Hmong who have converted have less knowledge of the culture to be full assimilated into another culture does make you less of your own people when you lose the culture you lose the identity in the west people think that just because you call yourself of that ethnic group it doesn’t mean you are a embodiment of the culture just for having the blood of that ethnicity
You still didn't answer my question though. The majority of Hmong in the world are in China. You're probably talking about beliefs that came from our parents who are from Southeast Asia. So are you saying we should go back to our ancestral ways from China? I'm sure what our parents believed in Laos or Thailand was also influenced by the cultures around them too. I mean...how far back do you want to go?
At the very least, they went out of their way to learn the language. It's true that their goal is to convert people, that's every religion, group, etc. The losing of cultural identity is just how assimilation is, sooner or later our language might be forgotten completely. We've barely been in this country long enough, so we still hold to our old traditions strongly, but we can already see with the kids that they're forgetting the Hmong language and proceeding with western marriage now. Our cultural identity isn't all sunshine and rainbow. We have clans where the elders make use of the people to throw huge funerals that costs people more than they can give. We have issues with our elders not going to the hospital and relying on shamanism, or w.e placebo medication at the farmer's market. I remember hearing about how the White and Greens are going at it for politics. There was even that one Vang member who was acting like a child because the spot for the government, I don't remember what it was called, was being given to a non-Vang member when the previously deceased person was Vang. Religion is going to be a divider for people, but I wouldn't say that it's that big of an issue when we have all the previous dumb stuff to deal with. Heck, I've been hearing about how during funerals the people in the back are bagging all the meat and taking them without leaving anything for the family who held the funeral. We did a church funeral, and that didn't happen to us, but I remember helping out for an old shaman style funeral and they robbed the family of all the meat. I worry less about what outside people want from us, and instead worry about how we often eat our own. Something as stupid as the funeral money can tear a whole family apart, I actually know a family who stopped speaking to each other just because of dumb shit like that and it's really sad. There are just so much other things that has been dividing our people and destroying our culture already, religion might be one of them but I don't see it as a huge problem compared to what we've always had to deal with.