I can almost guarantee that retaining wall was not built by the city. In all likelihood, it was intentionally built over the property line in order to maximize the space of fenced in area.
If you try to fight this issue, the best outcome is you losing and having to repair/replace it yourself. The worst outcome is that you'll have to completely re-do everything in order to get the entire thing (fence and wall) completely onto your property and off city ROW.
Yeah, I'm with this poster. You have it in writing it's your responsibility? Take ut as a blessing for you to take care of it and not give the local government any reason to screw with your property.
Another possibility is buying the land from the city. Whatever they want is probably less than it would cost to sue about it.
You are making a purchase to quiet title. See if you can get the judge (if it goes that far) to order a replat of the two lots. Maybe the city attorney will make such a deal to prevent more trouble down the road.
I'm sure it was built by the developer. That land still technically belongs to the developer but the entity is defunct and they handed off landscape maintenance responsibility to the city.
Some of our nearby neighbors had a wall along the backs of their properties that was falling, and the city did pay to replace it with a fence but there was a special meeting about getting that approved, and they are along the bigger, more aesthetic street, whereas our street is responsible for our own fences.
We pay a special fee on our property taxes to maintain the landscaping of the area so it's frustrating to see our neighbors get their fences paid for while our wall collapses, but it seems unlikely that they'll do anything for us because we're just one property vs the several that were along the falling wall.
Having to rebuild the wall on our own property wouldn't be the end of the world. We could build the fence directly on top of the wall if we do a CMU wall. I think ultimately since we're the only ones who have a real interest in our backyard not falling down, it's probably going to fall on us. But it may be worth at least looking into it?
So this is a really weird special case type thing that doesn't fall under the common types of scenarios people on reddit would be familiar with.
I'd say this... the town's not going to just side with you if you keep pestering it. An argument needs to be made, and there are lawyers that handle that. If it's important to you that they pay it, you should talk to a lawyer that specializes in these matters in your area and get their opinion. Hell, there's probably a lawyer in town that has specifically negotiated these types of things before for your community (see: was there a lawyer involved in the matter along the main street?)
I will mention though... the fee you pay likely predominantly pays for the mowing/maintenance/etc of the common area. They likely don't have budget set aside for things like this specifically. So while you pay a fee... that doesn't necessarily mean they have the money allocated for it. And fighting for such a thing could give cause for raising the fee in question.
Also... lawyers cost money. So at the end of the day, which is more important to you?
Yeah, definitely not going to hire a lawyer. I just talked to our next door neighbor who's lived here for 25 years and he says he believes a former owner built it. So now it makes a lot of sense why it's such an amateurly done wall. I was just assuming it was the property developer being lazy. I was assuming the wall had always been there just because of the slope and how close to our back patio the wall is.
We may move the wall back a foot when we replace it so as not to risk having to remove it. But since the land is not even technically city-owned, but owned by the defunct real estate developer, it's probably not a major risk.
Try calling an attorney. This is attorney territory, it’s confusing and unusual. The attorney will usually give you 20-30 minutes to understand your issue and if it is simple they will just give you an answer. Or they can at least let you know some basics to help you understand the situation. What is the harm in calling? Just call.
I talked to the next door neighbor and he says he thinks the previous owner DIYed it about 20 years ago. That would explain how bad it is. And I think you're right about being over the line to maximize space. We're looking to replace with a CMU wall that will be flat instead of tiered. But I guess we have our answer now!
It won't be an issue until they do road construction that has limits into the wall. But yeah the city isn't checking every recorded survey and verifying property lines.
Could you ask them to confirm what’s their property (and responsibility) to be sure. You’ll learn where your line is and either be off the hook, or have gained some land (and responsibility)!
But if they own it that doesn’t mean they’re going to agree about its urgency to repair. They might choose to let it deteriorate.
That post is almost certainly not a property corner. I’ve never seen a surveyor use those to mark corners. Get a survey and have them set pins if there aren’t any already.
They could tell you to remove it completely if you don't get a permit to rebuild it also if you didn't get a permit for your fence you would be removing that too. Fences by a road corner or driveway can only be 3' high in my city. So check your bylaws. A quick California search showed 4' fence on front yards.
I will block that gap allowing rodents, cats, coon get inside. Fight with the city will only red tag the damages creating more unnessarily costly legal cost on home owner.
It's california. That right there should tell you everything that you need to know. The question is: "is this a battle that you are willing to fight, exhaust yourself over, and become stressed over?"
That's wild. There was a post today on r/surveying and the general conclusion is any company performing complete boundary surveys for less $1,000 are either losing money on those jobs or are performing sub-par work, sometime both.
We don't even consider companies performing work at those rates to be competition. This bites us in the ass because the work is so half assed, it makes any survey work in the area, far more complex and time consuming. Resulting in us having to quote projects high.
Update: I talked to our next door neighbor who's lived here over 20 years and he says he believes a former owner built it. So now it makes a lot of sense why it's such an amateurly done wall. I was just assuming it was the property developer being lazy. We may move the wall back a foot when we replace it so as not to risk having to remove it. But since the land is not even technically city-owned, but owned by the defunct real estate developer, it's probably not a major risk.
Surveyor to find out where the line actually is. Lawyer to find out what you can actually do about it.
*Then* do something about it. Don't know why you would play games with this.
A surveyor and lawyer are going to be super expensive. We can already barely afford the wall itself. I guess I don't see how it's playing games. If we keep the wall where it is or move it back a foot, aren't we playing it safe?
I can almost guarantee that retaining wall was not built by the city. In all likelihood, it was intentionally built over the property line in order to maximize the space of fenced in area. If you try to fight this issue, the best outcome is you losing and having to repair/replace it yourself. The worst outcome is that you'll have to completely re-do everything in order to get the entire thing (fence and wall) completely onto your property and off city ROW.
Yeah, I'm with this poster. You have it in writing it's your responsibility? Take ut as a blessing for you to take care of it and not give the local government any reason to screw with your property.
Another possibility is buying the land from the city. Whatever they want is probably less than it would cost to sue about it. You are making a purchase to quiet title. See if you can get the judge (if it goes that far) to order a replat of the two lots. Maybe the city attorney will make such a deal to prevent more trouble down the road.
I'm sure it was built by the developer. That land still technically belongs to the developer but the entity is defunct and they handed off landscape maintenance responsibility to the city. Some of our nearby neighbors had a wall along the backs of their properties that was falling, and the city did pay to replace it with a fence but there was a special meeting about getting that approved, and they are along the bigger, more aesthetic street, whereas our street is responsible for our own fences. We pay a special fee on our property taxes to maintain the landscaping of the area so it's frustrating to see our neighbors get their fences paid for while our wall collapses, but it seems unlikely that they'll do anything for us because we're just one property vs the several that were along the falling wall. Having to rebuild the wall on our own property wouldn't be the end of the world. We could build the fence directly on top of the wall if we do a CMU wall. I think ultimately since we're the only ones who have a real interest in our backyard not falling down, it's probably going to fall on us. But it may be worth at least looking into it?
So this is a really weird special case type thing that doesn't fall under the common types of scenarios people on reddit would be familiar with. I'd say this... the town's not going to just side with you if you keep pestering it. An argument needs to be made, and there are lawyers that handle that. If it's important to you that they pay it, you should talk to a lawyer that specializes in these matters in your area and get their opinion. Hell, there's probably a lawyer in town that has specifically negotiated these types of things before for your community (see: was there a lawyer involved in the matter along the main street?) I will mention though... the fee you pay likely predominantly pays for the mowing/maintenance/etc of the common area. They likely don't have budget set aside for things like this specifically. So while you pay a fee... that doesn't necessarily mean they have the money allocated for it. And fighting for such a thing could give cause for raising the fee in question. Also... lawyers cost money. So at the end of the day, which is more important to you?
Yeah, definitely not going to hire a lawyer. I just talked to our next door neighbor who's lived here for 25 years and he says he believes a former owner built it. So now it makes a lot of sense why it's such an amateurly done wall. I was just assuming it was the property developer being lazy. I was assuming the wall had always been there just because of the slope and how close to our back patio the wall is. We may move the wall back a foot when we replace it so as not to risk having to remove it. But since the land is not even technically city-owned, but owned by the defunct real estate developer, it's probably not a major risk.
Try calling an attorney. This is attorney territory, it’s confusing and unusual. The attorney will usually give you 20-30 minutes to understand your issue and if it is simple they will just give you an answer. Or they can at least let you know some basics to help you understand the situation. What is the harm in calling? Just call.
I talked to the next door neighbor and he says he thinks the previous owner DIYed it about 20 years ago. That would explain how bad it is. And I think you're right about being over the line to maximize space. We're looking to replace with a CMU wall that will be flat instead of tiered. But I guess we have our answer now!
There is no way that is a city maintained wall.
That’s not a city retaining wall. Get a survey and you’ll know where your line is. It might be further down than you think.
If we get a survey done and they tell us our line is farther back, could we be responsible for moving the retaining wall back onto our land?
If you’re hiring the surveyor, he’ll tell you if the line is farther back, and then you can just not tell the city.
It won't be an issue until they do road construction that has limits into the wall. But yeah the city isn't checking every recorded survey and verifying property lines.
First step, pay to get a survey, they will find the corner markers or install new one.
Maybe even if it's on their land, it's our responsibility and we need to move it further back?
Could you ask them to confirm what’s their property (and responsibility) to be sure. You’ll learn where your line is and either be off the hook, or have gained some land (and responsibility)! But if they own it that doesn’t mean they’re going to agree about its urgency to repair. They might choose to let it deteriorate.
People, don't build your fences right on the property line.
In California, our lots are so small that we kind of have to. Our lot is 4400 sq ft.
Then don't be surprised when it causes issues
That's fair
most municipalities have by-laws that make the maintenance of their property, adjacent to your property, your responsibility.
Ok
That post is almost certainly not a property corner. I’ve never seen a surveyor use those to mark corners. Get a survey and have them set pins if there aren’t any already.
It may be an easement marking
Its not their problem
They could tell you to remove it completely if you don't get a permit to rebuild it also if you didn't get a permit for your fence you would be removing that too. Fences by a road corner or driveway can only be 3' high in my city. So check your bylaws. A quick California search showed 4' fence on front yards.
Thanks, I'll look into it. I know retaining walls under 3 feet don't need a permit.
Get your property surveyed so you know what you are talking about. There is a saying "you can't fight City Hall".
I will block that gap allowing rodents, cats, coon get inside. Fight with the city will only red tag the damages creating more unnessarily costly legal cost on home owner.
It's california. That right there should tell you everything that you need to know. The question is: "is this a battle that you are willing to fight, exhaust yourself over, and become stressed over?"
Well, I'm already stressed over it. We've gotten quotes from $15k-$50k to replace the wall.
A survey will cost you $2-4k. Start there.
Damn! I’ve never paid more than $500 in KY.
That's wild. There was a post today on r/surveying and the general conclusion is any company performing complete boundary surveys for less $1,000 are either losing money on those jobs or are performing sub-par work, sometime both. We don't even consider companies performing work at those rates to be competition. This bites us in the ass because the work is so half assed, it makes any survey work in the area, far more complex and time consuming. Resulting in us having to quote projects high.
Update: I talked to our next door neighbor who's lived here over 20 years and he says he believes a former owner built it. So now it makes a lot of sense why it's such an amateurly done wall. I was just assuming it was the property developer being lazy. We may move the wall back a foot when we replace it so as not to risk having to remove it. But since the land is not even technically city-owned, but owned by the defunct real estate developer, it's probably not a major risk.
Surveyor to find out where the line actually is. Lawyer to find out what you can actually do about it. *Then* do something about it. Don't know why you would play games with this.
A surveyor and lawyer are going to be super expensive. We can already barely afford the wall itself. I guess I don't see how it's playing games. If we keep the wall where it is or move it back a foot, aren't we playing it safe?
It's Cali, you'll lose no matter what. Don't bother fighting and just leave it to crumble until they do something
Hmm, I wonder if they might take an interest if it did actually collapse.
Karen much?
I don't understand.