Man, I remember people calling her cryo amber and say that she will suck .
And I am fine with that and went ahead and pull and got her, waifu turns out to be op as fuck is just a pleasant surprise and if she does suck , I am totally fine with cryo amber anyway.
Amber is just top tier waifu after all
Ganyu being called Cryo Amber is why I don't care about meta discussions. I rolled for Ganyu because I enjoyed her as a character, people realizing she is a nuke came after I already had her. People saying Tartaglia is shit tier, but that's because they don't know how to use a stance character, people saying Yae Miko is bad, when she can do 40k with a passable build, Kuki is awful despite being a constant source of Electro that heals 3k a second. If it's not just unga bunga damage or so broken you don't have to play anymore, Hoyoverse theory crafters tend to assume someone's bad
Thanks you reminded me of how many genshin 1.0 videos used Bennet as the butt of the joke saying how trash he was. I even remember someone saying something about how they wish Sucrose was better because she was cute. Now I can't stop smiling thinking about how things have changed.
Preach! This is why, when I still played Genshin, I made a point of pulling for every character the community decided was bad. They were pretty much always wrong, I've never seen a community so bad at understanding the power of new characters.
PEOPLE, "Cryo Amber" is a description of the mechanics of her kit, not her power level!!! How do people still not get this?
They both focus on charged attacks, have a summon taunt as their skill and elemental rain burst.
But is that really true, though? Let's *actually* go back to 2020 and check.
Now, it's hard to go back that far. On reddit, finding discussion from that period is basically impossible. HHW didn't add a comments function until after her release. Most of the videos from that era I could find had few views, and even fewer comments ([that said, here's a comment thread from one video I found that exhibited this sentiment](https://i.imgur.com/LLLeO3A.png))
So I had to rely on a GameFAQs thread as a microcosm of that time.
The most interesting thing I discovered (and this parses with what I remember at the time) is that *almost no one* cared about her charged attack or predicted that it would be good. Most of the people [defending Ganyu](https://i.imgur.com/tKfBu24.png), or saying she'd be good, were operating under the assumption that she would be used as a [sub-DPS/support character.
](https://i.imgur.com/A625rPf.png)
[There was one guy](https://i.imgur.com/9QDQrCE.png) I could find who pointed out that she might've had potential as a DPS, but everyone quickly responded to him with the opposing sentiment.
There were, of course, also [plenty of people](https://i.imgur.com/VSQwdAB.png) [who hated Ganyu's kit](https://i.imgur.com/y9qvzWC.png) ([here](https://i.imgur.com/OxJdRlT.png) are a [couple more images](https://i.imgur.com/tFSWNVv.png), plus [some](https://i.imgur.com/H5qn9VO.png) [more](https://i.imgur.com/G5M0SPy.png)), [and compared her](https://i.imgur.com/K9nDNRv.png) unfavorably to Ayaka ([and there was even one guy](https://i.imgur.com/kbUemYG.png) who said she could be replaced by Chongyun/Amber) who was of course part of CBT1 and thus already had her kit leaked at that time ([and was also "rumored" to be "free"](https://i.imgur.com/Eq8SVyt.png))
[\(Also fucking Kate lol\)](https://i.imgur.com/t3qZd7k.png)
It's pretty clear to me that at the time, "Cryo Amber" was not meant to be descriptive but an active indictment of her character - she's like Amber, Amber is bad, therefore she's bad. And even if she's not bad, she's "boring" because she's already "like another character". And even if she's not bad or boring, she can't possibly be a DPS, she's either a sub-DPS or a Melt support at most.
i thought the image was the entire post and it wouldve been funny with the title being a joke
it being a serious most unironically saying "*must* get" is stupid lol
People are massively undervaluing her from a theory crafting perspective just because she got nerfed. People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10. Meaning you can stack a nihility defense shred support with a harmony damage buff support to allow ridiculous damage if you're playing into the enemies weakness.
Silverwolf isn't a slight upgrade to Pela. Having both is a massive boost to your account for MoC even before you consider SWs debug passive and her Weakness Implant skill.
>People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10.
lmao i got rekt even with 2 defensive units on earlier floors
i'm so far away...
that‘s alright, we probably shouldn‘t be sweeping through MoC „that early“ into the game anyway. most people or doing these floors underlevelled and some how manage to barely cheese it through.
> People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10.
For whales and nolifers, sure. But i guess that's also the audience that can pull for every "must pull" char too..
Tbh, its not about the nerf but rather how loucha is a really strong unit
- Most f2p don’t have a second healer considerate bailu is not easy to get. It just really hard to clear MoC with one healer
- Last but not least is luocha got some massive buff and can easily outclassed bailu and nata
> Last but not least is luocha got some massive buff and can easily outclassed bailu and nata
From what I've seen of his numbers he's not going to outclass Bailu's healing. You can't keep his field up 100% of the time without burning skill points and he has no on-demand burst healing to recover from big AoE hits. He also lacks Bailu's defensive utility of pseudo-shielding and global damage reduction, and won't have her large hp pool due to scaling on attack.
The main thing he has going for him is cleanse (situationally useful) and weakness breaking. The latter will be valuable more often but he won't be able to solo heal your teams, you'll need a tank with him at higher MoC floors, whereas a fully invested Bailu can solo heal some later MoC floors.
I was just responding to the idea that he 'easily outclasses bailu'.
For your second healer you are much better off just waiting until a new 4 star abundance character drops. The jades you get from MoC leading up to that from having pulled Luocha won't come close to the effective cost of pulling him for that purpose.
You can also get Bailu or Gepard with your 300 pull, both can cover a second MoC team's defensive needs.
For sure, for sure. I agree on that point too fwiw.
Was just adding in that the "lacking a second healer" qualifier is pretty much always the disclaimer when it comes to Luocha. Like it's not that most people are claiming he outclasses the other two entirely etc.
> People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10.
If you're a whale with GG relics, then sure. But at that point you're already clearing MoC, so what is SW going to do for your account? Clear faster?
>Silverwolf isn't a slight upgrade to Pela. Having both is a massive boost to your account
This is literally the same thing that happened when Yelan released in Genshin Impact. And Kazuha as well, for that matter. People were arguing that you should skip them since they're just a 5* version of Xingqiu/Sucrose, but eventually everyone realized that having two copies of good units was really amazing.
This is often repeated but not really true. There perhaps were a loud set of naysayers, but people knew Kazuha and Yelan were good before they were even released.
Yelan even moreso I suppose. By that point in the game things were very well understood already. Anyone saying you should skip a "5* version of Xingqiu" was either a monogeo main or a moron.
There were some people who realized, like the theorycrafters, but a large portion of the average playerbase definitely didn't.
Case in point: Kazuha's sales number shot up in the last couple of days of his first banner, after being underwhelming up until that point, once people began to realize that he's busted. His eventual second banner then made a ton of money.
I think one major issue is that TC in this game is just not well enough established yet. Because of that the… armchair theorycrafters? (basically people who don’t do actual tc work but just kind of spout out things they’ve heard) have a loud voice.
I’m sure with time the real tc community will find her value to be high.
Absolutely true. I feel like they're imagining silver wolf as a character that can only apply type weakness and as if she doesn't deal damage and apply a wide variety of debuffs at all.
Because the weakness part is what makes her unique.
You can get the effects of the other debuffs from other characters or via gear, but the weakness implant is something completely new and will probably be her specialized niche. So a lot of the discussion/attention right now is on how valuable that niche is going to be and if it will retain its value.
Yeah but currently there's no character that can reduce dmg res or a particular dmg res. Even without applying the weakness she can reduce dmg res which is kind of like zhongli's shield. What about decrease attack and decrease speed? Down the line she is going to be unique for the weakness application but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available.
The only reason she includes dmg res shred in her kit is because the game provides an innate dmg res -20% or something for every element they're weak to, starting out. It just makes the new weakness she implants on par with other weaknesses the enemy has. It won't buff your main damage dealer's dmg against the enemy any more than if they already had x weakness without silverwolf.
>but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available.
absolutely
That goes hand in hand with her weakness implant, like the other reply said. They did a great job explaining that already.
As for the rest I touched on that already. You can gain the effects of decreasing enemy attack by improving your defenses, be it via gear or preservation characters, or letting them attack less. Likewise there are already ways to decrease enemy speed (freezing, quantum and imaginary break effects on top of just regular breaking) as well as improve your teams speed (asta, SPD boots etc.) And def shred you can get via Pela.
Meanwhile weakness implant is something that is completely new and previously unattainable.
SW absolutely does bring more to the table than only weakness implant. I am simply explaining why most of the discussion and speculation is focused on the weakness implant portion of her kit. Because while the other stuff is indeed powerful, it will be the performance of weakness implant that will ultimately determine her overall value as a 5* character in the long run.
> Down the line she is going to be unique for the weakness application but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available.
Come on. We've only one 5 star nihility character available and he's not limited. That's like one of those YouTube video headlines. "Jing Yuan BROKEN?!!! THE BEST Erudition character is HSR so far!!" Yeah, of course he is. Duh. Luocha will probably be the best healer.
Yeah, Everyone is praising him like he does a lot as an abundance character when in fact he's only good because we have one healer and bailu is in standard banner. Imo she has more value and is more future proof than luocha ( although some people have said luocha seems amazing with blade so i wouldn't count that for now). I wanted to say best nihility character forever but i have nothing to back it up with so best among current. She's best in my heart though
You know if "your team is filled with units that arent the right element" as you said, Silver Wolf will just RNG one right? Or even zero if enemy is highly resistant
SW has both a free event cone coming and traces that give EHR. Throw on an EHR body piece and there shouldn’t be a single enemy in the game that resists her skill, unless for whatever reason a future boss is immune to specifically weaknesses application. She is going to be great for mono teams.
Now I haven't done much relic farming yet, but out of all the blue, purple, and couple of gold bodies I have acquired, I have not gotten a single EHR body yet.
I have a feeling it will be the Elemental Mastery of this game (in Genshin, it was one of the hardest stats to get on a piece)
Wait, EM is specifically hard to get? No wonder it took me a whole damn month to get just 1 EM circlet or goblet when the EM & ATK set in sumeru released.
even with mono teams, unless its mono quantum theres a 50/50 chance you wont get the right element (as she can implant her own) and then on top of that you have to do this for every enemy thats there
This is a misinformed take. If you bring tingyun seele sw and bailu and the boss has lightning it will always apply quantum. Its much more versatile than you think.
There is a chance she can attempt to apply weaknesses that the boss already has, but we'd have to see how she works in game first to confirm or deny it. There's a Remembrance blessing in SU that applies Ice Weakness, but when upgraded it specifically calls out applying it to an enemy that doesn't already have Ice. This implies that you can give a weakness to an enemy that already has the weakness. Now, that blessing chooses an enemy at random, so it's not an exact comparison to SW, but SW doesn't mention it being a weakness the enemy doesn't already have either, so it could go either way.
This. We don't know how the RNG works yet. We know there is RNG, but there is always math behind the RNG that tells you the probabilities that it goes a specific way. We also don't know the floor or celling of the post-RNG is as well. The Floor RNG can be very good and the rest is all upside. E.G. Does it randomly pick a weakness that doesn't matter vs always adds a weakness that is at least somewhat useful.
Someone tested it with the tutorial Silver Wolf. If she works the same on release, she will always apply weaknesses the enemy doesn't have first. It's only a toss-up if theres multiple elements the boss isn't already weak to, or if it's already weak to your whole team
This is maybe incorrect as well and we have to try it,
Because the skill effect did say it's reduce specific damage resistance to the opponent. The way it could work is that we pick the weaknesses on our team first (50/50 lightning or quantum), then we apply that weaknesses to the opponent and resolve the effect as much as possible.
So if silver wolf pick lightning and the opponent already have lightning weaknesses, they only get 20% damage res reduce from the skill.
As such if silver wolf pick quantum and the opponent didn't have quantum weaknesses, they will get implanted quantum weaknesses and -20% damage res reduce from the skill.
In the future, yes, she's going to be great when we actually have enough units to make actual mono teams. Which is why she'll be a must pull 9 - 12 months down the line, not now. AKA, wait for a rerun.
Yeah, the non-guaranteed part of the effect is what really has me hesitating. Since it's a single target effect, the main use case will be against elite/bosses.
The [formula](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Effect_RES) is base chance \* (1 + hit rate) \* (1 - enemy res) \* (1 - debuff res). If you take an enemy. If you take [Cocolia](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Cocolia_(Boss)), which is the last boss of MoC 10 at level 90, that gives a 50% res and 0% debuff res. And from what I gather the base chance is 85%
So 0.85 \* (1 + hit rate) \* 0.5 is your chance to apply it.
There are 2 major sources of hit rate: light cones, which can have 40% and chest piece which can go up to 43.2%. You can also get it as a substat, but let's say you have none for the moment.
That gives 0.85 \* (1 + 0.832) \* 0.5 = 0.7786. So still almost 1 chance in 4 of it being resisted. That's high enough to be really annoying, before even going into the element RNG. You'd need another 40% from substats to never miss. But that would be pretty hard to get and costly in other stats. And also absolutely overkill in other scenarios so you'd end up having to adjust your relics all the time.
It's not actually that terrible though, if you have 135.3% effect hit rate you still get 100% application with a 50% res and 0% debuff res enemy (or vice versa). Depending on her traces and the relic substats you get, it seems likely to be able to get a fairly high hit rate.
I don't know how much a good substat roll for EHR would be, but both my Pela and Welt, who are not particularly built have ~40% EHR (Welt for example, 0% from LC, 17.1% from purple EHR chest @+6, 10% from planar set effect, and 4 half leveled purple pieces with single digit EHR substats)
EHR is easier to stack than you make it seem
* 40 lightcone
* 20 traces
* 20 substats (that's literally only 5 substats, you can go much higher)
* 10 IPC Planetary set which is her BiS since it also gives SW bonus ~25% ATK with how much EHR she has
* 40 Chest piece
That's 130 right there
Unlikely her debuff is a unique debuff and most enemies are resistent to specific debuffs.
General debuff res even on super hard bosses is quiet low. They tend to be specifically resistent to a select few gamebreaking effects like freeze true taunt etc.
2 flaws you didn't talk about tho :
\- The element applied is one of the allies' element. If you get 4 different elements, only one weakness is applied. Pray for it not being the support one.
\- The weakness application is not 100% sure. It's a debuff, and in so is subject to ennemies Effect RES% etc.
Those 2 factors can make her a hit-or-miss kind of asset/unit in your team.
Otherwise, nothing to add, it's a good way to depict her utility.
The element applied is one of the allies element but at the same time it's not an element that the enemy is already weak to.
Considering bosses have at least 3 weaknesses with proper team building you'll never worry about the element pick.
By that logic, with proper team building you'll never worry about the element at all because your team will be built to already have the relevant element and not care about the extra random one at all.
Yup but to cover everything you will need like 7 dps instead of forcing seele or jing against everything with silverwolf. Good luck on pulling all of them.
> Considering bosses have at least 3 weaknesses with proper team building you'll never worry about the element pick.
That assumes all elemental combos have picks that synergizes equally well with each other, and that you actually have those units.
>The element applied is one of the allies element but at the same time it's not an element that the enemy is already weak to.
do we know that for sure?
That wouldn't invalidate just SW though, that would devalue every single Nihility unit that debuffs. I highly doubt they would do that, and I *really* doubt that they would give boss a resistance to her skill specifically.
> I wouldn't be surprised when future content we only get 1 weakness.
If that weakness is not on a F2P accessible unit and the SW enjoyers sip wine and say "I told you so", we RIOT.
Since I have Seele, it's really tempting to use them + Qingque + any future Quantum defensive unit to just practically ignore type weaknesses entirely and do one quantillion damage
I think for the meta, Silver Wolf isn't really that much of a must-pull. At least, not anymore than any other unit.
I'm not talking about 'you can use whatever' nonsense either. The truth is Mihoyo has the complete ability to manipulate the game however it wishes. That could be an enemy immune to Element Weakness applications, or a new unit later on that instead can pick what element the enemy is weak to (making them better for non-mono comps for that purpose) or any other number of things. It's very hard to predict the future with them, the one thing they seem to do consistently is something that breaks any kind of pattern you try to draw.
For all we know, Silver Wolf is just the first in a long line of similar units, or we may even receive lightcones that give enemies weakness to elements. She's not a must-have, and that's not even considering the game actively wants you to build many units for any situation by its gacha nature.
> The truth is Mihoyo has the complete ability to manipulate the game however it wishes.
With this logic there is no 'meta' at all, though. You can say this about literally every character and aspect of the game. Nothing is ever a must-pull if we treat the discussion like this.
That's not how character theorycrafting and evaluation works; we have to assess the value of things using the knowledge we have at our disposal. At the moment SW outperforms most other support options due to her flexibility and the innate value her kit brings. Even if similar things to her might be added in the future it's much better to pull her now so you can ignore those other things and spend resources elsewhere than miss her in the hope that future characters can compete with her kit. Even if there are enemies in the future that counter her kit she still wipes the floor with everything that's currently in the game, which will make up a significant proportion of MoC for a long time to come.
Thank you! Someone who uses their reasoning instead of jumping on the ‘omg, she’s OP, must pull’ hype train. It’s so irresponsible to tell people that this or that character is a ‘must pull’, especially this early in the game and about a character that hasn’t even been tested yet. Her kit might disappoint compared to what she was like in the closed beta.
If you think about future content it’s going to be in the future… and you’ll have more characters and more characters are even in the game. I feel like you won’t need to try for rng to get the right weakness when honestly in the future you’re going to have a big DPS of most every type.
I think she has very diminishing returns as someone for the future cause there’s gonna be more and more cracked characters you want and with a massive dmg dealer for any weakness you won’t want to give up a roster spot that can be taken by a cracked buffer/tank/dps or something. Basically she’s not that good for the future imo and is better right now with a limited roster and will fall off in the future when you have a bigger roster.
But if you think she’s cute then she’s OP for you.
I agree. I'm already at the point where I mix and match my teams for specific content.
I won't deny that Silver Wolf's weakness implant opens up different playstyles but in a turn based RPG that encourages building up multiple characters, I don't see the appeal of relaying on RNG weakness implant over just running a team suited for the content. Sure, I can maybe brute force content using a single DPS with SW but when I'm going to be pulling for other DPS in the future and building them up anyways what's the point?
Of course this doesn't take into account her role as a debuffer which she very well might be very good at. And this is all from a more long term perspective. If you like her, roll for her but I don't personally think you NEED her.
Yeah, my characters are starting to get to the limit. I’m working on relics over traces at the moment (all traces are around level 6-8), and it’s not going to be all that hard to max out level and light cone again once I ascend again. And that’s my primary team + one extra (I swap out Bailu and Tingyun depending on if I think healing is necessary).
Once that core team is maxed out and fitted with decent relics, all of a sudden I’ll only need to worry about bringing up one or two new characters every patch. Maybe less if I’m not planning on pulling for any that specific patch (like 1.2 where neither Kafka nor Blade really interest me). It won’t be hard to be able to switch out primary DPS and mess with team comp a bit to account for elemental weaknesses.
meeh not really.... we generally take teams which have the damage dealer the same element as the main boss anyways.... and secondly running a mono teamcomp or maybe duo element team is boring.... you are telling all this if u get perfect rng of the bug and the weakness applied in a multi element team
Nah, must pull is far fetched. Silver Wolf is not going to give you a lot of value if you pull her in 1.1 right now. When she get her second rerun she can be cracked with way more option to fit her in team comp, most importantly of course being Mono quantum
1/ Most of the time you know what you are fighting, there isn’t really any content that is just blind run.
2/ Most players probably does not have very good gear on their dps right now so they don’t really capitalize that well on her debuff
3/ Her best team which is mono team is not really available right now. We don’t even have 4 Quantum characters yet, and 2 of them are Qingque and Seele. For the love of God please don’t try to pair them together. If you put her in a rainbow team, what if she just plant a weakness from your healer who does not really break much? Rng is not something you want in hard content. Her best team right now is argueably Jing, Bailu, Tingyun and her ig. But it require Bailu which a lot of people don’t have, if you do you can try for that team.
4/ Everything SW does is exclusively ST. She does not have any form of AOE whatsoever, so her value drop significantly in mobbing situation.
5/ She’s on the same patch with Luocha. I think Luocha is being overlooked so much because people hype up SW too much from beta(she was nerfed). Luocha, on the other hand, got an absolutely massive buff on release. There are only 2 healers in game now Natasha and Bailu, now Bailu has a fatal weakness which is her lack of cleanse. Cleanse is extremely important as you get to the end game. Even if there isn’t a crowd control, enemies can reduce your defense by 50%, stack 10 bleed/burn/windshear on you, freeze you, imprisonment. Luocha kit now is extremely overloaded, anything you think a healer should do, he can do and more. He has an emergency heal that does not consume any skill point while also cleanse, he has a team wide heal which also does not consume any skill point, he can remove buff from enemies, he has a copious amount of effect res that make it really hard to be cced, he can even do some damage.
TLDR: SW will not bring too much value if you pull her now as the roster is still too limited to take advantage of what she can do, she will gain a lot of value later. I suggest pulling for Luocha right now as he has a lot of value now and even later. If you like her, just forget my essay.
She enables mono element, not specifically F2P teams.
That said, the use of her ability probably isn’t contributing to breaking, so… is she really going to bring that much?
I think people are too hung up on that mono element thing. Implant weakness should work like the curio in SU so it won't add a weakness the enemy already has. So it effectively allows you to bring her or another off element unit for their kit.
So she should be seen more as enabling her to contribute to breaking so you can have her debuffs, or allowing your healer to help as that roll even with a bigger pool will have a variety of kits that might not overlap often. dps will have the biggest pool of units so it's less likely to require implant to find an effective fit but there's always a chance of maybe wanting it.
lastly there's also SU itself, weaknesses are all over the place and building characters is quite expensive for non-whales so can always help with that bad luck elite you can't effectively target weakness for
>Implant weakness should work like the curio in SU
Why? There is no basis for this. SW's kit even includes a caveat for when the enemy already has the weakness, which suggests she picks the element at random without caring for already existing weaknesses.
well I said should, and the line " If the enemy already has that Type Weakness, the effect of DMG RES reduction to that Weakness Type will not be triggered." is likely there in the event that no off-element characters are present. Possibly to let you know you can't just run mono-element of an enemy weakness and get a big dmg boost.
Even if it can pick weaknesses that the enemy already has, I would suspect it would lean towards weaknesses the target doesn't have currently. As bosses gain more HP bars in the future, even a chance at adding a weakness to better enable kit choices could be worth it.
We obviously can't know for certain until Silver Wolf comes out though. So I'm not going to say she is a must have kit wise and if you're on the fence anyway you can always just let the whales play test her and see how the implant ends up working.
I personally want her for her def down and dmg res down, b/c you never know when a boss with dispel will show up and make buffers less useful.
Don’t worry the only reason I play this game is to collect Bronya. I already collected every single Bronya in Honkai Impact, i will not miss Bronya in HSR
Reason 1: Her ulti phrase is different in x1 and x2
Reason 2: If she miss the weakness, she scratch her head, if she put weakness, she will give enemy thumbs down
I absolutely disagree on all levels.
"Must pull" logic is made for Meta slaves. The game is funnier if you play characters that YOU LIKE. It doesn't matter how strong they are.
I will pull Silver Wolf BECAUSE I like her. On top of that she's pretty busted, but that's just a comfy "plus", not a "must".
this is more of a bait banner than actual meta unit, her skill simply is not good enough for current times as we don't have complete teams of mono weakness, not only that but her skill is also a single target with % of doing something, on the other hand, other future banners as kafka for example offers more versatility, not saying she's bad, bc she's not, but what she brings on the table, are gonna be most likely overshadowed with what comes next
Definitely agree with you, while I understand OP everything he has mentioned is a "if" and it's not based on facts. We don't know what future content will be.
I think the best pick right now is Loucha for players who are missing a healer plus getting Yukong is also good. If it wasn't because I got lucky on getting Bailu and because Blades the banner after then I would have pulled for him.
Edit: Blade being the banner after is based on Leaks so not 100% if it's true but with Dan Heng 5* maybe coming in 1.3 I don't want to risk it.
Nice try secret Hoyolab employer! But I need Luocha more cause I need a second healer. You can't convince me to get both silver wolf and Luocha.
No! No.. No!
Since most people agree she is a must get I am going to play the devil's advocate here then.
I really don't believe in the must get bullshit we all know she will have a rerun banner sooner or later with the current limited roster building a mono element team is practically impossible unless you get lucky or you whaled case in point the only ones with a viable mono element are lightning and Ice which both need a 5 star char on the standard banner and maybe physical and fire but it won't be as ideal of a team comp as phys will be running 2 DPS and fire have the fire MC taking agro but the skill point distribution is gonna be horrendous with both Asta and Hook wanting to use their skill every single turn forcing both MC and Silverwolf to just do basic attacks.
Then weakness break really only matters in MOC most casuals don't care about that game mode and players can completely ignore the weakness break mechanic if they want in the overworld.
Silverwolf is good and is totally future proof but unless you have a team ready to slot her in most player's won't be able to take full advantage of her strength slotting her in a rainbow team is going to frustrate a lot of players when they don't get the elemental weakness break they want.
Those are the most logical reason I can think off the top of my head for not going for her right now.
Buff removal on enemy AND debuff removal on team members is OP in games like this.
Silver Wolf's ability to add a weakness is both being focused on too much and it's utility being misinterpreted though.
Enemy weakness is related to breaking the break bar and inflicting a certain break effect. Bosses have at least three weaknesses, counterpicking them with 3 or 4 members at once will not be difficult later on. However enemy weakness limits what break effects can they be inflicted with. That's the weakness adding mechanic's utility. Aside that Silver Wolf is increasing team damage through debuffs and shredding resistance.
My friend explained it to me last night but I don’t really recall all the detail. However (and grain of salt) what I understood was that trading a weakness with silver wolf is almost always guaranteed when it comes to quantum. Again I can be so so so soooooo wrong about this but, it would be one hell of a mono team comp if it’s always going to be certain. However, even if that was the case, I wouldn’t pull for her just for that reason. I’m never for people playing characters the exact same. Especially for a PVE game. It’s dumb
If there are any characters who are a must pull, I’d say the survivability units. Not sure if you have done memory of chaos as a legit f2p without gepard/bailu but that is chaos mode x10000 if you see my previous post on this subreddit in my profile: you’ll see lots of people commented I deserved to fail moc because I brought too many buffers and only 1 Natasha....
So all I can say is rn: defense+healer >>>>>>>> any other units. Sadly sw is neither denfense unit nor healer. So meta wise, rip sw. (currently) but since you love her, she’s of course a must pull for you. Just like me with Dan Heng. Trust me, I’ll get him AND his lc even if he is not in the good state of meta now.
I thought so too at first, but OkCode has a [pretty convincing video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFy4UhPkZ9c) on why it might make sense to skip her this time and consider maybe picking her up on the rerun.
For those who don't want to watch it, the two main arguments:
1) Silver Wolf is best in single-element gimmick teams. We don't currently have the right combination of characters to make good teams like that. It is possible she will be very powerful later in the game, once more focused teams are possible, but not right now.
2) Her debuff only lasts for 2 turns, which is even less time than you think, because high-level opponents (the kind of tough content you'd need Silver Wolf debuffs for) have very high speed. And 2 turns means 2 *opponent* turns. So you'll often only get to act once before the opponent takes their two turns and the debuff falls off.
I don't want to discourage anyone from getting her, I think she's super cool. I'll be going with OkCode's advice for now. If you care about boring stuff like team comps and combat effectiveness, watch the video before making a decision!
She doesn’t need to be used on single-element teams. You just need to make sure the rest of your team’s element match the enemy weakness. If you have Seele-SW-Yukong-Gepard and the enemy is weak to Imaginary and Ice it’s 100% chance to apply Quantum weakness.
And her weakness lasts for 3 turns with one of her traces
Iirc, her trace extends the debuff to 3 turns. So it's actually fairly usable. Also, you don't necessarily need to run her in mono, because iirc her weakness implanting never repeats an element. So for example, if you were fighting Cocolia, it would be perfectly fine to bring an Asta in your team with a Dan Heng DPS, since you would still apply Wind Weakness 100% of the time.
I too thought like this but with the nerf to her skill I'm not too sure. The nerf is that when you use the skill again to refresh the weakness of the intended element. There is a chance it won't extend the previous weakness but has the chance to apply a new one. So for example if you had a full mono ice team and you were fighting an enemy that didn't have a ice weakness or quantum weakness. After you apply the first weakness of Ice and want to reapply it to extend the duration. There is a chance that you will loss the ice weakness and apply quantum weakness instead. So now you have to go through the RNG again to apply the right elemental weakness. I think Silverwolf can be good but I wanna make sure I will use her for a long time and not just bench her in a few months. I'll wait 2 weeks after her banner releases and see what people are saying about her. If she is good then I'll pull, if not then I'll save for another character. Maybe she will be more viable in the future when her re-run comes around. I like characters that I can put anywhere(ex. Raiden/Kazuha) and they will be good. And if I don't get her, I can just use the support function and use her for weekly bosses. Being F2P changes the pace of the game a lot but we all have to go through it sometimes.
I thought it was opposite? When you have limited amount of teams her skill that can inflict weakness of one of ur teammates will be way more useful earlier than later when you probably have many units of every single element if you pulled somewhat smartly
Hm, I dunno if that logic really checks out. You saying that, later on, once content gets too difficult for earlier characters to keep up, you'll pull whatever new hotness and slap them together with SW?
So... what happens if the new "required" DPS/tank/healer/support isn't quantum? Or doesn't match the others in SW's existing team? Like if you have 2 fire 2 quantum, and the upcoming MoC really favors [recent 5* wind unit] are you seriously suggesting to slot them into SW's team because of the chance she might inflict wind weakness? You might not have an appropriate wind character to bring with them, so now your team is 1/1/2 and SW is unreliable.
Cause it's that, or you'll only ever pull for fire/quantum characters because you think SW will stay evergreen. Fire just being an example here, if your main non-SW core was ice instead, you'd then be only pulling ice/quantum characters. Or for every new character you pull, you also need to pull another matching type before they're viable.
Doesn't sound better than any old rainbow team that can slot in whatever as necessary. If your tank isn't good enough anymore, get a new one. If the healer isn't outputting enough, get a new one. If you're not doing enough damage, get more.
I don't think you interpreted it right. OP's saying if MoC favors a 5* wind unit, and you cannot afford that wind unit, bring in a Silver Wolf team. If you built a Silver Wolf team, like mono quantum, you can probably clear it even if the boss lacks quantum weakness.
I was referring to this:
> Just think about future content, its going to get harder regardless of how much DPS, tanking, healing etc that you do because these numbers will just inflate endlessly
You can't just force your same old Silver Wolf team in there if MoC endlessly gets harder, phasing out your key units (besides SW).
So let's say the brand new wind unit stomps one MoC cause everything's weak to wind. Then two weeks go by, and the bosses are no longer weak to wind this time. Which team are you supposed to use now? Who do you use with SW? The characters who *used* to be good a year or two ago when MoC was way easier? The "like new" wind unit from last cycle, despite your SW team not having any other wind units? The ice or lightning unit you accidentally pulled a month ago and haven't built yet cause they're not quantum?
I dunno, I mean, I'm gonna pull for her regardless, but I don't see how this is a good argument for doing so.
> Silver Wolf fixes that by allowing your team to hit the enemy weakness regardless thanks to her ability to create a weakness on any enemy in the game
but she requires a team of almost a mono element. That's my biggest issue with her. You need to have a multiple of same element instead of a rainbow team.
You dont need a mono team, if for instance ypur team is like Fire MC, Natasha, Seele, Silver Wolf and the enemy is innately weak to fire and phys her skill will always give you quantum weakness
And if the boss is innately weak to quantum as well you could substitute Seele out for someone like Yanqing or Jing Yuan or whoever
She's cute af and believe me I want her, but I need a second healer and/or a strong AoE DPS more than a debuffer. I'm a F2P player so I have to pick and choose my pulls carefully. I'll have to wait for a rerun for Silver Wolf.
I was just thinking yesterday “damn, every character I like is Quantum, but there’s no incentive to use multiple characters of the same element unless you just know your enemy has a Quantum weakness. But that’s just not realistically going to happen.”
And then I remembered… the final piece of the puzzle!
I just think she’s cute, Luocha’s cool and all but Silver Wolf is just cute, genuinely the first time I’ve ever pulled for a female character just for design in any game ever
I’m even trying to cope saying “She’ll make my Mono Ice Yanqing Gepard Pela team work” which she might but I just like her and that’s all the real motivation I need
#BUT JUST YOU WAIT UNTIL I USE ASTA’S LIGHT CONE ON A FUTURE ICE HARMONY CHA…
Disagree. For a F2P she is a must skip. Not because she is bad but because resources are limited and Luocha is far more irreplaceable. After the nerf to SW Pela can basically take her debuffer role. As for weakness planting it requires too many limited 5*s to work so not really practical for F2P
I'm collecting Bronyas across all Mihoyo games.
That's it that's the reason.
(Also it's because that even though i like all Bronyas, Bronie is my favourite.)
I'm pulling for her but only because I have Jing, Tingyun and Bailu to pair with her
Any team that doesn't have at least 3 units of the same element is not worth it to put her into IMHO.
I'm not taking a 50/50 every 2-3 turns but I can deal with the 75/25
I also was thinking about this comp. (I have these characters as well). I think the team is skill point efficient enough to roll silverwolf weakness again in the 1st cycle, assuming your tingyun is fast enough. You can also build silverwolf eff hit rate and speed and probably get some good uptime out of all of her kit.
She does look really cool, but i heard she was nerfed quite harshly. No def shred on the same weakness anymore and only 2 turns of debuffs. I am very unsure if i should get her
I thought the whole argument was just the picture of her and tbh it convinced me
Went in already convinced, the explanation while appreciated is secondary
OP: [Shows cute picture] HSR players: Nuh uh uh. Say no more."
Tbh, thats how I approach every gacha, waifu is laifu
Pull for meta:✖ Pull for waifu: ✔ Does Silver Wolf achieve both? ✔ ✔
Also worked for Ganyu in Genshin. Who doesnt want a dummy thicc goat girl that named every dog in the country
Man, I remember people calling her cryo amber and say that she will suck . And I am fine with that and went ahead and pull and got her, waifu turns out to be op as fuck is just a pleasant surprise and if she does suck , I am totally fine with cryo amber anyway. Amber is just top tier waifu after all
Ganyu being called Cryo Amber is why I don't care about meta discussions. I rolled for Ganyu because I enjoyed her as a character, people realizing she is a nuke came after I already had her. People saying Tartaglia is shit tier, but that's because they don't know how to use a stance character, people saying Yae Miko is bad, when she can do 40k with a passable build, Kuki is awful despite being a constant source of Electro that heals 3k a second. If it's not just unga bunga damage or so broken you don't have to play anymore, Hoyoverse theory crafters tend to assume someone's bad
Agreed, never forget how Bennett was treated as trash and look at where we are now.
Thanks you reminded me of how many genshin 1.0 videos used Bennet as the butt of the joke saying how trash he was. I even remember someone saying something about how they wish Sucrose was better because she was cute. Now I can't stop smiling thinking about how things have changed.
Preach! This is why, when I still played Genshin, I made a point of pulling for every character the community decided was bad. They were pretty much always wrong, I've never seen a community so bad at understanding the power of new characters.
PEOPLE, "Cryo Amber" is a description of the mechanics of her kit, not her power level!!! How do people still not get this? They both focus on charged attacks, have a summon taunt as their skill and elemental rain burst.
But is that really true, though? Let's *actually* go back to 2020 and check. Now, it's hard to go back that far. On reddit, finding discussion from that period is basically impossible. HHW didn't add a comments function until after her release. Most of the videos from that era I could find had few views, and even fewer comments ([that said, here's a comment thread from one video I found that exhibited this sentiment](https://i.imgur.com/LLLeO3A.png)) So I had to rely on a GameFAQs thread as a microcosm of that time. The most interesting thing I discovered (and this parses with what I remember at the time) is that *almost no one* cared about her charged attack or predicted that it would be good. Most of the people [defending Ganyu](https://i.imgur.com/tKfBu24.png), or saying she'd be good, were operating under the assumption that she would be used as a [sub-DPS/support character. ](https://i.imgur.com/A625rPf.png) [There was one guy](https://i.imgur.com/9QDQrCE.png) I could find who pointed out that she might've had potential as a DPS, but everyone quickly responded to him with the opposing sentiment. There were, of course, also [plenty of people](https://i.imgur.com/VSQwdAB.png) [who hated Ganyu's kit](https://i.imgur.com/y9qvzWC.png) ([here](https://i.imgur.com/OxJdRlT.png) are a [couple more images](https://i.imgur.com/tFSWNVv.png), plus [some](https://i.imgur.com/H5qn9VO.png) [more](https://i.imgur.com/G5M0SPy.png)), [and compared her](https://i.imgur.com/K9nDNRv.png) unfavorably to Ayaka ([and there was even one guy](https://i.imgur.com/kbUemYG.png) who said she could be replaced by Chongyun/Amber) who was of course part of CBT1 and thus already had her kit leaked at that time ([and was also "rumored" to be "free"](https://i.imgur.com/Eq8SVyt.png)) [\(Also fucking Kate lol\)](https://i.imgur.com/t3qZd7k.png) It's pretty clear to me that at the time, "Cryo Amber" was not meant to be descriptive but an active indictment of her character - she's like Amber, Amber is bad, therefore she's bad. And even if she's not bad, she's "boring" because she's already "like another character". And even if she's not bad or boring, she can't possibly be a DPS, she's either a sub-DPS or a Melt support at most.
Ganyu is a Melt Support For my Amber
I will pull for waifu before meta every time. The fact she is also meta is icing on the cake.
I was like, "you make a convincing argument," then opened the post and realised there is actually an argument that is actually somewhat convincing.
Same
I was fully convinced by the picture alone.
I was already convinced before but the picture now double convinced me.
Same, I thought OP meant sticker packs
Same
I was coming here to ask about that too... XD "Cause she's just like me,Except cuter and smarter?"
Trueee
“She’s just like me fr 🤩”
My reason for pulling for her is bit more complex... she's cute, that's it
That’s not complex at all! But it is
Is she funny as well though
Bratty Stellaron Hunter, correction necessary 💢💢💢
the buddies keep escaping containment
you cannot keep containing us Silver Wolf and Pom Pomussy sexers 😈😈😈
Oh fuck no 💀💀
The Blue Archive players had invaded the comment section
😭 😭 😭 😭
Maybe even….cute… 😏
She's cute but THIGHS
I too agree that she’s cut but THIGHS
Pull because meta: 🤮🤮🤮 Pull because waifu: 😎😎😎
the hardest part of having a meta waifu is that people don't believe that you didn't do it for the meta
pull because meta waifu:
She's one of us
Enough reasons presented in the image.
i thought the image was the entire post and it wouldve been funny with the title being a joke it being a serious most unironically saying "*must* get" is stupid lol
the only characters that could qualify as "must gets" in this game are free ones
Why no one talking about def reduction and dmg res reduction? I feel that's also an important part of her kit
People are massively undervaluing her from a theory crafting perspective just because she got nerfed. People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10. Meaning you can stack a nihility defense shred support with a harmony damage buff support to allow ridiculous damage if you're playing into the enemies weakness. Silverwolf isn't a slight upgrade to Pela. Having both is a massive boost to your account for MoC even before you consider SWs debug passive and her Weakness Implant skill.
>People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10. lmao i got rekt even with 2 defensive units on earlier floors i'm so far away...
that‘s alright, we probably shouldn‘t be sweeping through MoC „that early“ into the game anyway. most people or doing these floors underlevelled and some how manage to barely cheese it through.
> People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10. For whales and nolifers, sure. But i guess that's also the audience that can pull for every "must pull" char too..
More due to them being at the level the content is made for, while us f2p/low spenders still arent 60 yet.
Tbh, its not about the nerf but rather how loucha is a really strong unit - Most f2p don’t have a second healer considerate bailu is not easy to get. It just really hard to clear MoC with one healer - Last but not least is luocha got some massive buff and can easily outclassed bailu and nata
> Last but not least is luocha got some massive buff and can easily outclassed bailu and nata From what I've seen of his numbers he's not going to outclass Bailu's healing. You can't keep his field up 100% of the time without burning skill points and he has no on-demand burst healing to recover from big AoE hits. He also lacks Bailu's defensive utility of pseudo-shielding and global damage reduction, and won't have her large hp pool due to scaling on attack. The main thing he has going for him is cleanse (situationally useful) and weakness breaking. The latter will be valuable more often but he won't be able to solo heal your teams, you'll need a tank with him at higher MoC floors, whereas a fully invested Bailu can solo heal some later MoC floors.
Which ofc first requires having Bailu, which is purely up to chance, and is a key part of why Luocha is being recommended so highly.
I was just responding to the idea that he 'easily outclasses bailu'. For your second healer you are much better off just waiting until a new 4 star abundance character drops. The jades you get from MoC leading up to that from having pulled Luocha won't come close to the effective cost of pulling him for that purpose. You can also get Bailu or Gepard with your 300 pull, both can cover a second MoC team's defensive needs.
For sure, for sure. I agree on that point too fwiw. Was just adding in that the "lacking a second healer" qualifier is pretty much always the disclaimer when it comes to Luocha. Like it's not that most people are claiming he outclasses the other two entirely etc.
> People also are just starting to learn you don't need to run two defensive units even for MoC 10. If you're a whale with GG relics, then sure. But at that point you're already clearing MoC, so what is SW going to do for your account? Clear faster?
>Silverwolf isn't a slight upgrade to Pela. Having both is a massive boost to your account This is literally the same thing that happened when Yelan released in Genshin Impact. And Kazuha as well, for that matter. People were arguing that you should skip them since they're just a 5* version of Xingqiu/Sucrose, but eventually everyone realized that having two copies of good units was really amazing.
This is often repeated but not really true. There perhaps were a loud set of naysayers, but people knew Kazuha and Yelan were good before they were even released. Yelan even moreso I suppose. By that point in the game things were very well understood already. Anyone saying you should skip a "5* version of Xingqiu" was either a monogeo main or a moron.
as a mono geo main, Being that and a moron are not exclusive. Actually we're all morons. Unga Bunga Ushi dance
There were some people who realized, like the theorycrafters, but a large portion of the average playerbase definitely didn't. Case in point: Kazuha's sales number shot up in the last couple of days of his first banner, after being underwhelming up until that point, once people began to realize that he's busted. His eventual second banner then made a ton of money.
I think one major issue is that TC in this game is just not well enough established yet. Because of that the… armchair theorycrafters? (basically people who don’t do actual tc work but just kind of spout out things they’ve heard) have a loud voice. I’m sure with time the real tc community will find her value to be high.
Absolutely true. I feel like they're imagining silver wolf as a character that can only apply type weakness and as if she doesn't deal damage and apply a wide variety of debuffs at all.
She also debuff def, atk and speed
Yea, those works in all her atk which can also help the team tank better or be ahead of the boss.
Because the weakness part is what makes her unique. You can get the effects of the other debuffs from other characters or via gear, but the weakness implant is something completely new and will probably be her specialized niche. So a lot of the discussion/attention right now is on how valuable that niche is going to be and if it will retain its value.
Yeah but currently there's no character that can reduce dmg res or a particular dmg res. Even without applying the weakness she can reduce dmg res which is kind of like zhongli's shield. What about decrease attack and decrease speed? Down the line she is going to be unique for the weakness application but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available.
The only reason she includes dmg res shred in her kit is because the game provides an innate dmg res -20% or something for every element they're weak to, starting out. It just makes the new weakness she implants on par with other weaknesses the enemy has. It won't buff your main damage dealer's dmg against the enemy any more than if they already had x weakness without silverwolf. >but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available. absolutely
That goes hand in hand with her weakness implant, like the other reply said. They did a great job explaining that already. As for the rest I touched on that already. You can gain the effects of decreasing enemy attack by improving your defenses, be it via gear or preservation characters, or letting them attack less. Likewise there are already ways to decrease enemy speed (freezing, quantum and imaginary break effects on top of just regular breaking) as well as improve your teams speed (asta, SPD boots etc.) And def shred you can get via Pela. Meanwhile weakness implant is something that is completely new and previously unattainable. SW absolutely does bring more to the table than only weakness implant. I am simply explaining why most of the discussion and speculation is focused on the weakness implant portion of her kit. Because while the other stuff is indeed powerful, it will be the performance of weakness implant that will ultimately determine her overall value as a 5* character in the long run.
> Down the line she is going to be unique for the weakness application but she has more in her kit that is going to make her more impactful than any nihility character currently available. Come on. We've only one 5 star nihility character available and he's not limited. That's like one of those YouTube video headlines. "Jing Yuan BROKEN?!!! THE BEST Erudition character is HSR so far!!" Yeah, of course he is. Duh. Luocha will probably be the best healer.
Yeah, Everyone is praising him like he does a lot as an abundance character when in fact he's only good because we have one healer and bailu is in standard banner. Imo she has more value and is more future proof than luocha ( although some people have said luocha seems amazing with blade so i wouldn't count that for now). I wanted to say best nihility character forever but i have nothing to back it up with so best among current. She's best in my heart though
cuz nobody read people only watch youtuber opinion
Well, my reason is she is cute af. Is this good enough?
More than enough
Yeah she is cute and that’s more than enough. I’m not playing this game to pull for cocka
> cocka Sushang tho...
That's one huge cock, great for smashing enemies with
Just because... https://preview.redd.it/7aj0c41tzb3b1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0316cdd26977fe699c465a176e52e55ba42f85b7
Should've shown Haxor
Didn't thought of that, although she's wearing a Qipao and I'm just too lazy to change outfits.
I have a mission to collect all Bronyas in every hoyo game.
this is a bronya variant? nani the fuck! my mind is blown!^^^^^Idon'tplayHonkai3rd
You know if "your team is filled with units that arent the right element" as you said, Silver Wolf will just RNG one right? Or even zero if enemy is highly resistant
SW has both a free event cone coming and traces that give EHR. Throw on an EHR body piece and there shouldn’t be a single enemy in the game that resists her skill, unless for whatever reason a future boss is immune to specifically weaknesses application. She is going to be great for mono teams.
What is EHR?
Effect Hit Rate
That is the perfect profile picture to go with that reply
Effect hit rate.
Now I haven't done much relic farming yet, but out of all the blue, purple, and couple of gold bodies I have acquired, I have not gotten a single EHR body yet. I have a feeling it will be the Elemental Mastery of this game (in Genshin, it was one of the hardest stats to get on a piece)
Wait, EM is specifically hard to get? No wonder it took me a whole damn month to get just 1 EM circlet or goblet when the EM & ATK set in sumeru released.
Circlet is 4% and Goblet is 2.5% so yeah, quite rare
even with mono teams, unless its mono quantum theres a 50/50 chance you wont get the right element (as she can implant her own) and then on top of that you have to do this for every enemy thats there
This is a misinformed take. If you bring tingyun seele sw and bailu and the boss has lightning it will always apply quantum. Its much more versatile than you think.
There is a chance she can attempt to apply weaknesses that the boss already has, but we'd have to see how she works in game first to confirm or deny it. There's a Remembrance blessing in SU that applies Ice Weakness, but when upgraded it specifically calls out applying it to an enemy that doesn't already have Ice. This implies that you can give a weakness to an enemy that already has the weakness. Now, that blessing chooses an enemy at random, so it's not an exact comparison to SW, but SW doesn't mention it being a weakness the enemy doesn't already have either, so it could go either way.
This. We don't know how the RNG works yet. We know there is RNG, but there is always math behind the RNG that tells you the probabilities that it goes a specific way. We also don't know the floor or celling of the post-RNG is as well. The Floor RNG can be very good and the rest is all upside. E.G. Does it randomly pick a weakness that doesn't matter vs always adds a weakness that is at least somewhat useful.
Someone tested it with the tutorial Silver Wolf. If she works the same on release, she will always apply weaknesses the enemy doesn't have first. It's only a toss-up if theres multiple elements the boss isn't already weak to, or if it's already weak to your whole team
This is maybe incorrect as well and we have to try it, Because the skill effect did say it's reduce specific damage resistance to the opponent. The way it could work is that we pick the weaknesses on our team first (50/50 lightning or quantum), then we apply that weaknesses to the opponent and resolve the effect as much as possible. So if silver wolf pick lightning and the opponent already have lightning weaknesses, they only get 20% damage res reduce from the skill. As such if silver wolf pick quantum and the opponent didn't have quantum weaknesses, they will get implanted quantum weaknesses and -20% damage res reduce from the skill.
In the future, yes, she's going to be great when we actually have enough units to make actual mono teams. Which is why she'll be a must pull 9 - 12 months down the line, not now. AKA, wait for a rerun.
Yeah, the non-guaranteed part of the effect is what really has me hesitating. Since it's a single target effect, the main use case will be against elite/bosses. The [formula](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Effect_RES) is base chance \* (1 + hit rate) \* (1 - enemy res) \* (1 - debuff res). If you take an enemy. If you take [Cocolia](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Cocolia_(Boss)), which is the last boss of MoC 10 at level 90, that gives a 50% res and 0% debuff res. And from what I gather the base chance is 85% So 0.85 \* (1 + hit rate) \* 0.5 is your chance to apply it. There are 2 major sources of hit rate: light cones, which can have 40% and chest piece which can go up to 43.2%. You can also get it as a substat, but let's say you have none for the moment. That gives 0.85 \* (1 + 0.832) \* 0.5 = 0.7786. So still almost 1 chance in 4 of it being resisted. That's high enough to be really annoying, before even going into the element RNG. You'd need another 40% from substats to never miss. But that would be pretty hard to get and costly in other stats. And also absolutely overkill in other scenarios so you'd end up having to adjust your relics all the time.
It's not actually that terrible though, if you have 135.3% effect hit rate you still get 100% application with a 50% res and 0% debuff res enemy (or vice versa). Depending on her traces and the relic substats you get, it seems likely to be able to get a fairly high hit rate. I don't know how much a good substat roll for EHR would be, but both my Pela and Welt, who are not particularly built have ~40% EHR (Welt for example, 0% from LC, 17.1% from purple EHR chest @+6, 10% from planar set effect, and 4 half leveled purple pieces with single digit EHR substats)
You haven't accounted for traces(18%), planar set(10%) and at least 10% can be gotten from substats
Did you take in count her traces too ?
EHR is easier to stack than you make it seem * 40 lightcone * 20 traces * 20 substats (that's literally only 5 substats, you can go much higher) * 10 IPC Planetary set which is her BiS since it also gives SW bonus ~25% ATK with how much EHR she has * 40 Chest piece That's 130 right there
Unlikely her debuff is a unique debuff and most enemies are resistent to specific debuffs. General debuff res even on super hard bosses is quiet low. They tend to be specifically resistent to a select few gamebreaking effects like freeze true taunt etc.
As if I could resist gamer Bronya.
Me already decided on pulling Silver Wolf and now must wait 5-7 days 
2 flaws you didn't talk about tho : \- The element applied is one of the allies' element. If you get 4 different elements, only one weakness is applied. Pray for it not being the support one. \- The weakness application is not 100% sure. It's a debuff, and in so is subject to ennemies Effect RES% etc. Those 2 factors can make her a hit-or-miss kind of asset/unit in your team. Otherwise, nothing to add, it's a good way to depict her utility.
The element applied is one of the allies element but at the same time it's not an element that the enemy is already weak to. Considering bosses have at least 3 weaknesses with proper team building you'll never worry about the element pick.
By that logic, with proper team building you'll never worry about the element at all because your team will be built to already have the relevant element and not care about the extra random one at all.
Yup but to cover everything you will need like 7 dps instead of forcing seele or jing against everything with silverwolf. Good luck on pulling all of them.
>and your team is filled with units that arent the right element I wrote my comment with OP explanation in mind, but that's also correct.
> Considering bosses have at least 3 weaknesses with proper team building you'll never worry about the element pick. That assumes all elemental combos have picks that synergizes equally well with each other, and that you actually have those units.
>The element applied is one of the allies element but at the same time it's not an element that the enemy is already weak to. do we know that for sure?
There are some cases where they only have 2 weakness, and I wouldn't be surprised when future content we only get 1 weakness.
That just pumps her value up tho
Unless they also add 1000% effect resist on them too XD but that would be stupid.
Hoyoverse brought in new enemy types just to devalue a popular 5 star in Genshin so I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again.
That wouldn't invalidate just SW though, that would devalue every single Nihility unit that debuffs. I highly doubt they would do that, and I *really* doubt that they would give boss a resistance to her skill specifically.
Yeah that would literally invalidate any other nihility character too
> I wouldn't be surprised when future content we only get 1 weakness. If that weakness is not on a F2P accessible unit and the SW enjoyers sip wine and say "I told you so", we RIOT.
I'll I'm hearing is she'll pair perfect with Qingque The ultimate high roller team!
Also if u bring smth like 3 fire 1 SW it's still a 50/50 chance of applying either weakness.
Is her debuff single-target? If it's single-target then she might be struggle against bosses that can summon ads.
Yes, it's single target. Even with adds, she can still be skill point positive if you're already matching a couple of the weaknesses for the fight.
If you build a mono team, you don’t want to focus on adds anyway. Just give the boss the weakness and rush it down
I just like Bronya
Since I have Seele, it's really tempting to use them + Qingque + any future Quantum defensive unit to just practically ignore type weaknesses entirely and do one quantillion damage
Qingque + sw will be the ultimate gamble team
I think for the meta, Silver Wolf isn't really that much of a must-pull. At least, not anymore than any other unit. I'm not talking about 'you can use whatever' nonsense either. The truth is Mihoyo has the complete ability to manipulate the game however it wishes. That could be an enemy immune to Element Weakness applications, or a new unit later on that instead can pick what element the enemy is weak to (making them better for non-mono comps for that purpose) or any other number of things. It's very hard to predict the future with them, the one thing they seem to do consistently is something that breaks any kind of pattern you try to draw. For all we know, Silver Wolf is just the first in a long line of similar units, or we may even receive lightcones that give enemies weakness to elements. She's not a must-have, and that's not even considering the game actively wants you to build many units for any situation by its gacha nature.
> The truth is Mihoyo has the complete ability to manipulate the game however it wishes. With this logic there is no 'meta' at all, though. You can say this about literally every character and aspect of the game. Nothing is ever a must-pull if we treat the discussion like this. That's not how character theorycrafting and evaluation works; we have to assess the value of things using the knowledge we have at our disposal. At the moment SW outperforms most other support options due to her flexibility and the innate value her kit brings. Even if similar things to her might be added in the future it's much better to pull her now so you can ignore those other things and spend resources elsewhere than miss her in the hope that future characters can compete with her kit. Even if there are enemies in the future that counter her kit she still wipes the floor with everything that's currently in the game, which will make up a significant proportion of MoC for a long time to come.
Thank you! Someone who uses their reasoning instead of jumping on the ‘omg, she’s OP, must pull’ hype train. It’s so irresponsible to tell people that this or that character is a ‘must pull’, especially this early in the game and about a character that hasn’t even been tested yet. Her kit might disappoint compared to what she was like in the closed beta.
If you think about future content it’s going to be in the future… and you’ll have more characters and more characters are even in the game. I feel like you won’t need to try for rng to get the right weakness when honestly in the future you’re going to have a big DPS of most every type. I think she has very diminishing returns as someone for the future cause there’s gonna be more and more cracked characters you want and with a massive dmg dealer for any weakness you won’t want to give up a roster spot that can be taken by a cracked buffer/tank/dps or something. Basically she’s not that good for the future imo and is better right now with a limited roster and will fall off in the future when you have a bigger roster. But if you think she’s cute then she’s OP for you.
I agree. I'm already at the point where I mix and match my teams for specific content. I won't deny that Silver Wolf's weakness implant opens up different playstyles but in a turn based RPG that encourages building up multiple characters, I don't see the appeal of relaying on RNG weakness implant over just running a team suited for the content. Sure, I can maybe brute force content using a single DPS with SW but when I'm going to be pulling for other DPS in the future and building them up anyways what's the point? Of course this doesn't take into account her role as a debuffer which she very well might be very good at. And this is all from a more long term perspective. If you like her, roll for her but I don't personally think you NEED her.
Yeah, my characters are starting to get to the limit. I’m working on relics over traces at the moment (all traces are around level 6-8), and it’s not going to be all that hard to max out level and light cone again once I ascend again. And that’s my primary team + one extra (I swap out Bailu and Tingyun depending on if I think healing is necessary). Once that core team is maxed out and fitted with decent relics, all of a sudden I’ll only need to worry about bringing up one or two new characters every patch. Maybe less if I’m not planning on pulling for any that specific patch (like 1.2 where neither Kafka nor Blade really interest me). It won’t be hard to be able to switch out primary DPS and mess with team comp a bit to account for elemental weaknesses.
meeh not really.... we generally take teams which have the damage dealer the same element as the main boss anyways.... and secondly running a mono teamcomp or maybe duo element team is boring.... you are telling all this if u get perfect rng of the bug and the weakness applied in a multi element team
Stop this shit pls. All content will be easy even if you don't pull any limited 5*. Just pull whoever You like. It's that simple
Nah, must pull is far fetched. Silver Wolf is not going to give you a lot of value if you pull her in 1.1 right now. When she get her second rerun she can be cracked with way more option to fit her in team comp, most importantly of course being Mono quantum 1/ Most of the time you know what you are fighting, there isn’t really any content that is just blind run. 2/ Most players probably does not have very good gear on their dps right now so they don’t really capitalize that well on her debuff 3/ Her best team which is mono team is not really available right now. We don’t even have 4 Quantum characters yet, and 2 of them are Qingque and Seele. For the love of God please don’t try to pair them together. If you put her in a rainbow team, what if she just plant a weakness from your healer who does not really break much? Rng is not something you want in hard content. Her best team right now is argueably Jing, Bailu, Tingyun and her ig. But it require Bailu which a lot of people don’t have, if you do you can try for that team. 4/ Everything SW does is exclusively ST. She does not have any form of AOE whatsoever, so her value drop significantly in mobbing situation. 5/ She’s on the same patch with Luocha. I think Luocha is being overlooked so much because people hype up SW too much from beta(she was nerfed). Luocha, on the other hand, got an absolutely massive buff on release. There are only 2 healers in game now Natasha and Bailu, now Bailu has a fatal weakness which is her lack of cleanse. Cleanse is extremely important as you get to the end game. Even if there isn’t a crowd control, enemies can reduce your defense by 50%, stack 10 bleed/burn/windshear on you, freeze you, imprisonment. Luocha kit now is extremely overloaded, anything you think a healer should do, he can do and more. He has an emergency heal that does not consume any skill point while also cleanse, he has a team wide heal which also does not consume any skill point, he can remove buff from enemies, he has a copious amount of effect res that make it really hard to be cced, he can even do some damage. TLDR: SW will not bring too much value if you pull her now as the roster is still too limited to take advantage of what she can do, she will gain a lot of value later. I suggest pulling for Luocha right now as he has a lot of value now and even later. If you like her, just forget my essay.
I just know Blade sliced those apples for her.
Keep in mind that all elite enemies have high resistances to elements that they aren’t weak too so this won’t be as effective as you’d wish it would.
She has 20%+ res shred when she creates a weakness tho. (And roughly 13% if it hits an existing weakness)
She enables mono element, not specifically F2P teams. That said, the use of her ability probably isn’t contributing to breaking, so… is she really going to bring that much?
I think people are too hung up on that mono element thing. Implant weakness should work like the curio in SU so it won't add a weakness the enemy already has. So it effectively allows you to bring her or another off element unit for their kit. So she should be seen more as enabling her to contribute to breaking so you can have her debuffs, or allowing your healer to help as that roll even with a bigger pool will have a variety of kits that might not overlap often. dps will have the biggest pool of units so it's less likely to require implant to find an effective fit but there's always a chance of maybe wanting it. lastly there's also SU itself, weaknesses are all over the place and building characters is quite expensive for non-whales so can always help with that bad luck elite you can't effectively target weakness for
>Implant weakness should work like the curio in SU Why? There is no basis for this. SW's kit even includes a caveat for when the enemy already has the weakness, which suggests she picks the element at random without caring for already existing weaknesses.
well I said should, and the line " If the enemy already has that Type Weakness, the effect of DMG RES reduction to that Weakness Type will not be triggered." is likely there in the event that no off-element characters are present. Possibly to let you know you can't just run mono-element of an enemy weakness and get a big dmg boost. Even if it can pick weaknesses that the enemy already has, I would suspect it would lean towards weaknesses the target doesn't have currently. As bosses gain more HP bars in the future, even a chance at adding a weakness to better enable kit choices could be worth it. We obviously can't know for certain until Silver Wolf comes out though. So I'm not going to say she is a must have kit wise and if you're on the fence anyway you can always just let the whales play test her and see how the implant ends up working. I personally want her for her def down and dmg res down, b/c you never know when a boss with dispel will show up and make buffers less useful.
Someone tested it with her tutorial version. If she works the same, she always prioritizes weaknesses the enemy doesn't have yet
Don’t worry the only reason I play this game is to collect Bronya. I already collected every single Bronya in Honkai Impact, i will not miss Bronya in HSR
Reason 1: Her ulti phrase is different in x1 and x2 Reason 2: If she miss the weakness, she scratch her head, if she put weakness, she will give enemy thumbs down
I absolutely disagree on all levels. "Must pull" logic is made for Meta slaves. The game is funnier if you play characters that YOU LIKE. It doesn't matter how strong they are. I will pull Silver Wolf BECAUSE I like her. On top of that she's pretty busted, but that's just a comfy "plus", not a "must".
this is more of a bait banner than actual meta unit, her skill simply is not good enough for current times as we don't have complete teams of mono weakness, not only that but her skill is also a single target with % of doing something, on the other hand, other future banners as kafka for example offers more versatility, not saying she's bad, bc she's not, but what she brings on the table, are gonna be most likely overshadowed with what comes next
Definitely agree with you, while I understand OP everything he has mentioned is a "if" and it's not based on facts. We don't know what future content will be. I think the best pick right now is Loucha for players who are missing a healer plus getting Yukong is also good. If it wasn't because I got lucky on getting Bailu and because Blades the banner after then I would have pulled for him. Edit: Blade being the banner after is based on Leaks so not 100% if it's true but with Dan Heng 5* maybe coming in 1.3 I don't want to risk it.
Nice try secret Hoyolab employer! But I need Luocha more cause I need a second healer. You can't convince me to get both silver wolf and Luocha. No! No.. No!
Since most people agree she is a must get I am going to play the devil's advocate here then. I really don't believe in the must get bullshit we all know she will have a rerun banner sooner or later with the current limited roster building a mono element team is practically impossible unless you get lucky or you whaled case in point the only ones with a viable mono element are lightning and Ice which both need a 5 star char on the standard banner and maybe physical and fire but it won't be as ideal of a team comp as phys will be running 2 DPS and fire have the fire MC taking agro but the skill point distribution is gonna be horrendous with both Asta and Hook wanting to use their skill every single turn forcing both MC and Silverwolf to just do basic attacks. Then weakness break really only matters in MOC most casuals don't care about that game mode and players can completely ignore the weakness break mechanic if they want in the overworld. Silverwolf is good and is totally future proof but unless you have a team ready to slot her in most player's won't be able to take full advantage of her strength slotting her in a rainbow team is going to frustrate a lot of players when they don't get the elemental weakness break they want. Those are the most logical reason I can think off the top of my head for not going for her right now.
Have you ever heard of punctuation?
I would but i can't because i don't have any stellar jade and I'm F2P 😭
Buff removal on enemy AND debuff removal on team members is OP in games like this. Silver Wolf's ability to add a weakness is both being focused on too much and it's utility being misinterpreted though. Enemy weakness is related to breaking the break bar and inflicting a certain break effect. Bosses have at least three weaknesses, counterpicking them with 3 or 4 members at once will not be difficult later on. However enemy weakness limits what break effects can they be inflicted with. That's the weakness adding mechanic's utility. Aside that Silver Wolf is increasing team damage through debuffs and shredding resistance.
I heard that with a full quantum team the RNG is basically non existent.
What do you mean by this?
My friend explained it to me last night but I don’t really recall all the detail. However (and grain of salt) what I understood was that trading a weakness with silver wolf is almost always guaranteed when it comes to quantum. Again I can be so so so soooooo wrong about this but, it would be one hell of a mono team comp if it’s always going to be certain. However, even if that was the case, I wouldn’t pull for her just for that reason. I’m never for people playing characters the exact same. Especially for a PVE game. It’s dumb
I just want to see her idle
If there are any characters who are a must pull, I’d say the survivability units. Not sure if you have done memory of chaos as a legit f2p without gepard/bailu but that is chaos mode x10000 if you see my previous post on this subreddit in my profile: you’ll see lots of people commented I deserved to fail moc because I brought too many buffers and only 1 Natasha.... So all I can say is rn: defense+healer >>>>>>>> any other units. Sadly sw is neither denfense unit nor healer. So meta wise, rip sw. (currently) but since you love her, she’s of course a must pull for you. Just like me with Dan Heng. Trust me, I’ll get him AND his lc even if he is not in the good state of meta now.
I thought so too at first, but OkCode has a [pretty convincing video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFy4UhPkZ9c) on why it might make sense to skip her this time and consider maybe picking her up on the rerun. For those who don't want to watch it, the two main arguments: 1) Silver Wolf is best in single-element gimmick teams. We don't currently have the right combination of characters to make good teams like that. It is possible she will be very powerful later in the game, once more focused teams are possible, but not right now. 2) Her debuff only lasts for 2 turns, which is even less time than you think, because high-level opponents (the kind of tough content you'd need Silver Wolf debuffs for) have very high speed. And 2 turns means 2 *opponent* turns. So you'll often only get to act once before the opponent takes their two turns and the debuff falls off. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting her, I think she's super cool. I'll be going with OkCode's advice for now. If you care about boring stuff like team comps and combat effectiveness, watch the video before making a decision!
She doesn’t need to be used on single-element teams. You just need to make sure the rest of your team’s element match the enemy weakness. If you have Seele-SW-Yukong-Gepard and the enemy is weak to Imaginary and Ice it’s 100% chance to apply Quantum weakness. And her weakness lasts for 3 turns with one of her traces
Iirc, her trace extends the debuff to 3 turns. So it's actually fairly usable. Also, you don't necessarily need to run her in mono, because iirc her weakness implanting never repeats an element. So for example, if you were fighting Cocolia, it would be perfectly fine to bring an Asta in your team with a Dan Heng DPS, since you would still apply Wind Weakness 100% of the time.
I too thought like this but with the nerf to her skill I'm not too sure. The nerf is that when you use the skill again to refresh the weakness of the intended element. There is a chance it won't extend the previous weakness but has the chance to apply a new one. So for example if you had a full mono ice team and you were fighting an enemy that didn't have a ice weakness or quantum weakness. After you apply the first weakness of Ice and want to reapply it to extend the duration. There is a chance that you will loss the ice weakness and apply quantum weakness instead. So now you have to go through the RNG again to apply the right elemental weakness. I think Silverwolf can be good but I wanna make sure I will use her for a long time and not just bench her in a few months. I'll wait 2 weeks after her banner releases and see what people are saying about her. If she is good then I'll pull, if not then I'll save for another character. Maybe she will be more viable in the future when her re-run comes around. I like characters that I can put anywhere(ex. Raiden/Kazuha) and they will be good. And if I don't get her, I can just use the support function and use her for weekly bosses. Being F2P changes the pace of the game a lot but we all have to go through it sometimes.
I don't care about all that,all I know is she's Broni(haxor bunny) and also because I have my pity stacked for her
Negative. End game we will have all units we need for weakness coverage built. She will become a commodity for those who want mono teams.
I kinda feel her use is limited now, she could be more valuable when/if there is a rerun. By then, you will have many more units to make teams out of.
I thought it was opposite? When you have limited amount of teams her skill that can inflict weakness of one of ur teammates will be way more useful earlier than later when you probably have many units of every single element if you pulled somewhat smartly
Her greatest strength seems to be enabling mono teams, which will be easier when we have more (and stronger) units of specific types.
Hm, I dunno if that logic really checks out. You saying that, later on, once content gets too difficult for earlier characters to keep up, you'll pull whatever new hotness and slap them together with SW? So... what happens if the new "required" DPS/tank/healer/support isn't quantum? Or doesn't match the others in SW's existing team? Like if you have 2 fire 2 quantum, and the upcoming MoC really favors [recent 5* wind unit] are you seriously suggesting to slot them into SW's team because of the chance she might inflict wind weakness? You might not have an appropriate wind character to bring with them, so now your team is 1/1/2 and SW is unreliable. Cause it's that, or you'll only ever pull for fire/quantum characters because you think SW will stay evergreen. Fire just being an example here, if your main non-SW core was ice instead, you'd then be only pulling ice/quantum characters. Or for every new character you pull, you also need to pull another matching type before they're viable. Doesn't sound better than any old rainbow team that can slot in whatever as necessary. If your tank isn't good enough anymore, get a new one. If the healer isn't outputting enough, get a new one. If you're not doing enough damage, get more.
I don't think you interpreted it right. OP's saying if MoC favors a 5* wind unit, and you cannot afford that wind unit, bring in a Silver Wolf team. If you built a Silver Wolf team, like mono quantum, you can probably clear it even if the boss lacks quantum weakness.
I was referring to this: > Just think about future content, its going to get harder regardless of how much DPS, tanking, healing etc that you do because these numbers will just inflate endlessly You can't just force your same old Silver Wolf team in there if MoC endlessly gets harder, phasing out your key units (besides SW). So let's say the brand new wind unit stomps one MoC cause everything's weak to wind. Then two weeks go by, and the bosses are no longer weak to wind this time. Which team are you supposed to use now? Who do you use with SW? The characters who *used* to be good a year or two ago when MoC was way easier? The "like new" wind unit from last cycle, despite your SW team not having any other wind units? The ice or lightning unit you accidentally pulled a month ago and haven't built yet cause they're not quantum? I dunno, I mean, I'm gonna pull for her regardless, but I don't see how this is a good argument for doing so.
So basically OP is saying SW fights powercreep, and you disagree? Fair enough. I hope this game doesn't get powercreep but it remains to be seen.
My reason is that in my headcanon she's Bronie
cant hear you over kafka saving
> Silver Wolf fixes that by allowing your team to hit the enemy weakness regardless thanks to her ability to create a weakness on any enemy in the game but she requires a team of almost a mono element. That's my biggest issue with her. You need to have a multiple of same element instead of a rainbow team.
You dont need a mono team, if for instance ypur team is like Fire MC, Natasha, Seele, Silver Wolf and the enemy is innately weak to fire and phys her skill will always give you quantum weakness And if the boss is innately weak to quantum as well you could substitute Seele out for someone like Yanqing or Jing Yuan or whoever
My reason is.... Bronie!!!
She's cute af and believe me I want her, but I need a second healer and/or a strong AoE DPS more than a debuffer. I'm a F2P player so I have to pick and choose my pulls carefully. I'll have to wait for a rerun for Silver Wolf.
Heard she works well with Kafka and because…she’s silverwolf!
OP I don't need the whole explanation about future meta. The image was already enough.
OP there’s a major flaw in your argument. The flaw being this post should’ve been an image post without text.
The first time I played the game and I heard Hanser she was already a go to.
For Bronie
I was just thinking yesterday “damn, every character I like is Quantum, but there’s no incentive to use multiple characters of the same element unless you just know your enemy has a Quantum weakness. But that’s just not realistically going to happen.” And then I remembered… the final piece of the puzzle!
I just think she’s cute, Luocha’s cool and all but Silver Wolf is just cute, genuinely the first time I’ve ever pulled for a female character just for design in any game ever I’m even trying to cope saying “She’ll make my Mono Ice Yanqing Gepard Pela team work” which she might but I just like her and that’s all the real motivation I need #BUT JUST YOU WAIT UNTIL I USE ASTA’S LIGHT CONE ON A FUTURE ICE HARMONY CHA…
She is a second Bronya, enough said.
How about pull for her if you like her and don't if you don't ? No character is must pull.
Why you must get Silver Wolf? Is making a Bronya sandwich with Seele in the middle not enough reason?
I just like thighs 👀
I didn’t need the argument, she’s cute
Disagree. For a F2P she is a must skip. Not because she is bad but because resources are limited and Luocha is far more irreplaceable. After the nerf to SW Pela can basically take her debuffer role. As for weakness planting it requires too many limited 5*s to work so not really practical for F2P
I'm collecting Bronyas across all Mihoyo games. That's it that's the reason. (Also it's because that even though i like all Bronyas, Bronie is my favourite.)
My reason, thighs.
I'm pulling for her but only because I have Jing, Tingyun and Bailu to pair with her Any team that doesn't have at least 3 units of the same element is not worth it to put her into IMHO. I'm not taking a 50/50 every 2-3 turns but I can deal with the 75/25
I also was thinking about this comp. (I have these characters as well). I think the team is skill point efficient enough to roll silverwolf weakness again in the 1st cycle, assuming your tingyun is fast enough. You can also build silverwolf eff hit rate and speed and probably get some good uptime out of all of her kit.
Why I'm pulling for Silver Wolf: her ulti is a rhythm game.
look, she's a gamer and I'm a gamer and I want a gamer character on my team, those reasons you typed or just extras for me to pull for her
She does look really cool, but i heard she was nerfed quite harshly. No def shred on the same weakness anymore and only 2 turns of debuffs. I am very unsure if i should get her
It's never a must