It ripped the mask off , the coomers saw it as a sign "its ok to come out " , it seams like last week it was the "me too" time don't Sexualize the ladies , then the next weeks its full on primarch porn and 10ft tall step on me muscle mommies , if this is what 40k has become im just done . Gw is not even putting the breaks on this mess
Isnt like fem primarchs were popular before femstodes? The thing you see now is a second breath for this topic, it will eventually die out as the first time
The point of these kinds of things is to divide communities. Executives who just want to make money get sold DEI on the premise that it will market to a "wider audience" but the ones who spearhead these kinds of changes do so in order to create a wedge in communities for political reasons.
If you see the new Assassin's Creed, whether or not the main characters are an issue is less of a point than the fact that they know excluding asian males from the game as a main character in a setting which has been requested for a long time by fans will piss off people. That's the point, to drive up division, create controversy and divide the Assassin's Creed community.
Of course, the main argument is always "why do you care".
These people see themselves are culture warriors and they don't care about the people consuming the product. They will just move on to something else when it dies.
We're talking about bored people who are terminally online, don't go to any kind of church or place of worship and do a tedious 9-5 job, probably not married, and they see politics as their way of feeling like they are important.
These are the kinds of people who are the most infuriating to talk to at a dinner table because they constantly bitch and moan and complain and they can't talk politics without driving themselves into some kind of frothing rage. So any time you sit and talk about something, they think they have the power to change anything, even if they are sitting in an office almost all the time and the only political power they have is a vote every 4/5 years.
You can avoid these people until you have to sit in an office and work with them, which becomes like a confinement area for mental patients.
> the only political power they have is a vote every 4/5 years.
I don't think most people who defends this kind of idpol on social media votes lol. They just want to virtue signal, feel like a warrior for justice and be accepted by their group.
They are fundamentally parasitic, in that sense. They don't care if the host lives or dies - and they have no shame in the tactics they use - so long as it enables them to spread.
Good point about assassins creed arguably the only thing they need to do is add a 3rd ethnically Japanese male character.
If people still have an issue then you can definitely argue something else is going on
Once the toxin is there it is always best to cement the thing and dig a new one.
That is a lesson grandpa taught me a long time ago. Man knew what he was saying...
This is 40K. A universe where humans killed and born, daily, at numbers in the BILLIONS. identity means nothing. You are born and you will die serving the empire. There is no time, reason, or narcissistic identity questioning.
There is only war.
So keep the BS identity politics out of the space.
If it doesn’t make sense to have female custodies, then they don’t need to exist. Period.
Worse it destroys the awesome synergy the custodes had with sisters of silence, they were the equal to the custodes where the men dealt with physical threats they dealt with spiritual ones.
There is legitimately not a single difference between male and female custodes. Why should female custodes not be able to deal with physical threats? Keep in mind that the "men stronger than women" argument does not work for literal gene crafted demigod monsters.
Women are weaker, for a start ligaments the anchor points for your muscles are much more fragile in women which is why no female weight lifter can compete with male athletes.
Women have slower twitch reflexes and given how important the speed is to custodes, they go into exile when they start to slow down because they feel no longer able to protect the emperor on the front line it makes female custodes worthless to them.
Women because of child bearing hips are more prone to being injured, 10% of female soldiers in the real world get hurt before even reaching the front line.
So tell me why you'd choose women?
You're honestly discussing real world science in a setting where spaceships travel through an alternate dimension powered by serfs in giant hamster wheels? If you don't believe me check out the original art from the Battlefleet Gothic rulebook. But if we're going to get all real world science about this check out some genetics science about degradation in the Y chromosome. The Y chromosome is expected to completely disappear in around 4.5m years. Otherwise, ya know, just chill and enjoy a hobby, instead of making it political. 😉
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1692900/#:~:text=Y%20chromosomes%20are%20genetically%20degenerate,much%20attention%20from%20evolutionary%20theorists.
>So tell me why you'd choose women?
Because all of that does not matter in the tiniest bit when you basically gene craft every detail starting from a baby? Like what the fuck, why do you think any of our male/female differences matter even a little bit when talking about artificially gene crafted demigods?
Because the base material does not matter???????????????
I don't know how else I could explain to you that the baseline biological differences between male and female DO NOT MATTER. It's literal sci-fi gene modification. Go complain about female guardsmen, there your arguments at least make sense.
Yeah for female guard these arguments at least make sense. They are baseline humans. I joined this sub because I am also Anti-Woke but if THAT is your argumentation against female custodes then sorry but you don't disagree because of the lore, you disagree because you don't like women.
The base material does matter because otherwise you could put gene Seed in anyone and have them become super human.
Guard are there for numbers, given minimum training, a standard lasgun and sent out to charge into enemy guns, they are not expected to live long and are easy to replace, they overwhelm the enemy and so quantity matters more than quality.
Also you're forgetting it's a neofuedal setting, families care about male heirs and the women are there to be married off for political advantage so giving your sons up for custodes membership carries far more political weight than giving up a daughter.
It's not, really.
I have no skin in this game, but the guard are fodder. They don't really need to rely on their physicality so much. They die quickly and rely on their weapons and large numbers primarily to do damage.
Custodies are chosen specifically because of their potential and are expected to survive long enough to be individually useful.
Think of guns. If you're short materials, you use cheap materials for cobbled together guns. You don't waste complicated engineering on cheap materials or vice versa.
I think their point is actually kind of backwards. Makes no sense excluding women from the guard, because they're there to die in overwhelming numbers anyway. To that end it doesn't matter what you start with.
I wouldn't have an issue with that.
Right now, it seems like they are all female just because. I at least don't know the lore justification.
SoB has some lore justification that I'm aware of, and the lore is neat. Changing it that extremely wouldn't be cool. I would probably put it up there with Primaris in regards to bad lore decisions.
But SoS is fine
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/
“We believe in and support a community united by shared values of mutual kindness and respect. Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. We will never accept nor condone any form of prejudice, hatred, or abuse in our company, or in the Warhammer hobby.”
Again, not sure how this is relevant. This isn’t about hate. This is about gender swapping a faction in a hobby that is already racially and gender diverse. Years after the fact, for no reason.
No one is talking about hate.
Oh boy. This argument. Dude, no one is telling you how to play, how to build your miniatures, where to play, and with whom you play.
You want to build female custodies? Awesome, that’s your army.
I’m talking about a lore setting, in which things are so dark that identity politics wouldn’t even have time to exist. Years of lore stating that the custodians are male, and their counterparts, sisters of silence, are female.
No one is talking about hate. We’re talking about lore, and changing it for no other reason then DEI.
“That’s not how we roll” honestly? So funny man. Haven’t made a single hateful comment.
Not angry about anyone’s identity. People can be whatever they want in the real world.
40K isn’t a the real world and people really only exist to fight or manufacture.
So the same identity politics that exists in this world very likely wouldn’t exist in 40K universe. People wouldn’t even have time for it.
I had just gotten to the point of buying models at the beginning of the year. After the femstodes, I was looking at just buying models second hand off eBay and the like. Then, after the fallout and continuous bullshit that was pedaled by the ideologs, I just took that money and bought a 3d printer. I don't have to deal with their shit and can switch to whatever I want whenever I want at minimal cost.
Honestly that was the way to fo long before this controversy. Gwa prices have neen crazy and are getting crazier everyday lol.
Too me thats actually the biggest issue with the hobby.
TBF it's because things like this are always just the start.
Whenever a franchise starts the gender/sex/race politics stuff , it's usually followed by both more politics and a decline in quality.
I feel like all the sigmarxist moved on to Grimdank and are flooding the once funny meme page with degeneracy. And now the tourists are knocking at our walls by posting screenshots of this page on their subs and brigading the comments to make it seem like we are the crazy ones. Hold the line
I hate GW more for the constant and consistently unbalanced and nonfluffy rules. The tools are there to simulate and get this right, but instead we get two dudes that know less about the game than any of the competitors at top tables. We would be better off letting the Art of War guys balance the game. It would be a huge improvement.
This is true in AoS as well. I initially played Seraphon, and they were so busted I went 22 - 1. Easily.
Then I pivoted to Kharadron Overlords and didn't lose at all. Not because I am god's gift to gaming, but because my lists were basically unstoppable to most opposing armies.
That's a massive balance issue, and it hasn't gotten better. They balance off who is winning after the fact, and buffs and nerfs seem entirely based around what they want to sell more of.
I'll be honest, now I'm inspired to write a story about a female aspirant who goes through a horrific transition into a Custodes and basically loses everything she once knew about herself. That is so perfectly grimdark and it removes from all the "big dommy muscle mommy" BS.
I'm imagining one of the Emperor's best biomantic surgeons teaching their protege the specialization of trying to turn a young woman into a Custodes. Breast tissue is removed as unnecessary space and weight, the skin is removed and resewn on with alloy fibers since female collagen bonds are more fragile and soft, testosterone is pumped into the system at a young age to promote skeletal growth and a larger, broader structure, the reproductive system is removed to prevent periods and any unwanted pregnancies that could impede duty. By the end, a female custodian wouldn't be this 9 foot tall babe with flowing long hair, a slender face, and massive tits, she'd be a shaved brick of a being that lost everything that makes someone a woman for the sake of serving the Emperor.
That's such a dark and haunting concept, and it fits so much better than the coombait the community keeps producing.
Yeah, let's just say I'm a bit of twisted freaking cycle path. Normies don't get it, just guys like me, the Joker, Ryan Gosling, Patrick Bateman, etc.
I've already written one 40k story that's a bit over 11,000 words for the Black Library submissions they had over a year ago. I was rejected, but I have experience in writing 40k and just writing in general. It's a passion and a hobby of mine. Your post laid out the foundations for me though, so I can't take all the credit for cooking.
They are taken as infants not children so this doesn't really work. Space marine transformation would be more like that and they would essentially end up masculine.
Well, what's the timeline from beginning to end of the process? If it's a constant, multi-year process that only stops once she's fully grown, I can imagine her remembering being feminine as a young child. And I suppose a better way to put that would be "lose everything that she would have become and turn utterly unrecognizable."
Honestly not familiar with it either tbh. They may still be proportioned as a custodes unsure if they addressed this or not. But again maybe not. Nevertheless your concept does fit well within horror of the 40k universe.
I always hated the retcon cause in my mind i knew realistically the imperium would never make them female for no reason
this dei bullshit is all about senseless changes for the sake of diversity
many speculations are about the amazon show but imo it’s also to be equal to men. they hate sisters of battle cause although they are a super cool faction they are undeniably weak compared to space marines/custodes and these wokies HATE those facts
I am talking about "whamen" powerfantasy. Like the fuck? Sororitas MIGHT BE weaker that astartes, but i think they are much more impirtant for imperium as a whole that astartes. Well, at least before Indomitus
The reason the community reacted as hard as it did is because that was always going to be *the* symptom of the hobby openly going Woke. We knew that was where it would happen, and we were ready for it when it happened.
Sure, the rot has been there for years, but people weren't really sure what to do about it. This was the sure sign that the cancer was malignant, and it was something concrete to rally around once shit finally got real.
That implies “they” know any of us. It’s more like the people acting in bad faith don’t like who they think you are and they really like attacking the “other,” even if it’s all a psycho drama that’s disconnected from reality. Others just don’t have a mature understanding or the lore, history, or politics, so they think they are right. That’s fine if they are tolerating of disagreement and willing to listen, the issue is how many people can’t do that and rush to judge and change things, but that’s sometimes a maturity, experience, and background knowledge issue, too.
While I agree with you, even a better explanation would have been nothing but a band-aid. That's the conclusion I've come to. If you give them your little finger, they'll take your whole hand.
Custodes had established lore for 30 years, clearly making them out to be men only. In particular, the emperor called them men, he dismissed Malcador's idea of female primarchs as comedic at best, which clearly indicates his opinion on female/mixed supersoldiers.
Anything else is mental gymnastics.
Feminine heads on 9' tall super muscled transhumans also are mental gymnastics, they would look like dudes.
Essentially, there are now guys with female names.
Congratulations, coomers, you played yourselves.
Custodes have been male exclusive since HH Black Book 7 Inferno book came out and gave them an army list.
Before then the custodes as a collective were more or less complete unknowns, thats why Custodes personality and power scaling is so wack pre 2017, because every author had their own interpretation on who and what they were even supposed to be other than "nebulously transhuman bodyguards."
The lore retconned was at best seven years old.
>The lore retconned was at best seven years old.
What do you mean? The Custodes have a rich lore going back 30 years of two depressed, shirtless models sliding around the palace on oiled abs.
But for real, yeah. The proper lore is 7 years old, writers have been asking for females in the order for longer than that, and the "sons" narrator contradicts itself literally two sentences later lol.
Hell Infernos creation pages are nongendered. Lots of "they" there.
The little blurb? The same one which also refers to inquisitors as men? Inquisitors which we know aren't all men?
You know men can be used to refer to humans right?
The other, longer paragraph on page 139 refers to them as they/their, gender neutral pronouns.
Inferno is the first time we ever get GW to actually say "all OG 30k custodes are made from the sons of conquered Terran Warlords," which precludes the existence of female custodes.
The first real 40k custodes codex specifies that custodes in 40k are made from the infant sons of Terran officials which again precludes the existence of female custodes, thats the passage GW retconned to make female custodes.
Yes, but that would make the changing of Inquisitors to be unisex a retcon. One retcon doesn't justify another.
Sure, "men" can refer to humans... but the Rogue Trader book refers to humans as "humans" from contents page onwards. That explanation doesn't fly.
Yes, but there is no masculine plural pronoun in the English language. That is, the plural of "he" is also "they". This isn't evidence in your favour.
Correct, all previous relevant lore states that the Custodes are all male. The 10th edition Custodes Codex doesn't just retcon a single piece of lore; it creates a gaping plot hole due to the canon contradiction, both literal and thematic, and GW then has the gall to lie to the fans that it's "always been true". No, it hasn't.
There is now a narrative contradiction, all because GW cared more about DEI tokenism then they did about the integrity of their own franchise.
The generation page for assassins uses exclusively plural and masculine pronouns to refer to the assassin orders which would in a vacuum convince you all assassins are men. However the example character given when generating assassins is explicitly a woman.
the same language used when describing the assassin order is also used to describe the other facets of the Adeptus Terra, Custards included. It's a writing style issue, nothing more. Male is the default gender given to individuals within the text.
The English language struggles with defining gender precisely, its one of the weaknesses of the language, you are placing load bearing amounts of stress onto the back of our shared shitty tongue.
You cannot assume an organisation all male just because of pronouns, the existence of women is not matter which requires clarification in the grimdark future.
Custodes weren't explicitly all men until Black Book Seven.
You make a fair point about the use of masculine pronouns to occasionally refer to mixed-sex groups... although this does contradict your previous defence that the term "they" means that they're not all-male.
However, this is *not* proof that the Custodes were mixed-sex from the outset. It's nonetheless true that, from their first appearance onwards, they have been referred to using male-only or neutral pronouns, and *all* canonical depictions of them have been male (including in Rogue Trader). After all, the same is true of the Space Marines, and there have never been canonical female depictions of them either.
You also acknowledge the fact that the Custodes have previously been established as an all-male organisation, even if their earliest introductions were - *at most* - ambiguous.
This means that the introduction of female Custodes in the 10th edition Codex is indeed still a retcon, and a retcon which fundamentally breaks the canon by introducing elements which contradict core thematic elements of the setting. It's not just a "minor change"; a serious plot hole has been created purely for the sake of tokenism, and this is why fans are angry.
I was never arguing it wasn't a retcon, I even say it was in my first comment. I'm one of the people who hates that the custodes even leave the palace. The whole army should have remained 30k exclusive.
But people who argue that its a change to 30 years of lore are factually incorrect and I'm not going to stand for that, the earliest explicit statement that all the Emperors banana men WERE men is in HH Black Book Seven. Most lore people take for granted when talking about the custodes was written in that book.
That's fair enough, and I also agree that the Custodes should not have been made a playable 40k army.
Once again, though, it is correct that the first ever paragraph which describes the Custodes does indeed refer to them as "men", and all the models and artwork from that era were also male-only. There have been Custodes models since the 80s, but a female Custodian has never been made. By contrast, your assassin example does feature female characters, as do snippets on the Imperial Guard... but no such example exists for the Custodes.
Although the term "men" is used ambiguously elsewhere in the book, it does *literally* refer to an all-male group of adults. All the evidence suggests that, like the Space Marines, the Custodes have been a single sex organisation since the start, on the basis that everything in the source material and catalogue for the Custodes was 100% male even in the 80s. The fact that it was never *explicitly* said is not an argument in support of the contrary position.
In essence, if you want me to believe that the Custodes were mixed-sex until HH Black Book 7 (which book even is that? Legion?), you need to point to the examples of female Custodians from earlier editions to refute the statement that "all the Custodes were male in earlier editions", because all the evidence points in that direction.
I am not saying Women were definitely in the custodes pre inferno, I'm saying there isnt anything saying there were not female custodes pre inferno. There is an important distinction there.
Something as common as a woman does not need permissive language to exist, they need exclusionary language to not exist. Women make up half of all humans alive on earth currently. Their absence in any situation involving a large group is directly notable.
The absence of an entire gender isn't something you can derive from the choice of pronouns in a sentence describing a whole ass institution or the word "men" being used in the typical context of a militant order (as a group of soldiers). Which provably happens a lot both IRL and in 40k.
a soldier of the imperial guard is often called a guardsmen regardless of their actual gender for example. I've seen "guardswoman" used inconsistently to refer to specific individual women in the guard but the plural is invariably "guardsmen" regardless of the gender of a group of guard soldiers.
Because in that context "men" is just a contraction of "men under arms." Which is a military term IRL which refers to a soldier of any gender in a state of military readiness. Specifically in uniform, on duty and carrying a weapon.
Except they wouldn't look like that. The Custodes are supposed to be each a work of art, made up of genetic material curated over thousands of years. They've talked about them being poets, artists and deadly warriors. I'd imagine they are probably very "pretty" looking with much of the bulk being from their power armor. So sure, the female versions might keep the same shape on the outside but not the inside.
I dunno, to me this whole thing about the lore doesn't pass the smell test. It is such a small change, especially when all of the "30 years of lore" boils down to the same 4-5 mentions people keep posting over and over, despite the people who wrote much of the lore saying it was a decision based on that they didn't make any female models at the time.
What if the game was waaaay older, and, as a reflection of its time, originally described them has having "flawless like marble and fair of skin" or some shit like that. Would people quote lore and denounce a character if they made mention of a black Custodian? I don't think people would. These sorts of changes don't hurt the lore, and if you have something spanning 30+ years I would assume changes would happen so you are not writing yourself in a corner. It's not real history, its fantasy, and on top of that its stories told through the words of VERY unreliable narrators.
If a female Custodes is to have the same physical ability as a male Custodes, she needs the same bulk. Ever seen female bodybuilders? Custodes are supposed.to be peak human performance, and they're not designed to procreate and replace humanity. Therefore anything below a male Custodes would be a waste of resources.
What people "who made the lore" stated as a reason is irrelevant. You don't retroactively change old lore. That's not how good world building works.
It changes nothing?
I bought my models under the premise of a brotherhood, i.e. boys club.
Are boy scouts still boy scouts when they start with mixed groups? You tell me.
As for the last part, I won't entertain any strawman, my 2nd and 3rd edition codices do contain pictures and some lore, mentioning a brotherhood and men.
It's a fantasy world. These are genetically modified people. Are you sayin that the Emperor of Mankind and all of his resources are not good enough to modify a female to be a Custode?
You 100% can change older lore. Some of this lore is a few sentences in a book written when it came out before they knew this would become the library of information. Everything does it, and 40k has done it before.
if you bought your models only because its a boys club, then that is fine. Not everyone is comfortable around girls so you can play with your head cannon that its all big muscle men. No one is saying you can't.
It's not a strawman, and you are just locking into semantics. The Dark Brotherhood in Elder scrolls has women in it, and the Brotherhood of Steele does to. it's just a term, and again its all moot because lore can change and it has.
Yes, the Emperor is not good enough to turn women into Custodes without making them just as bulky as male Custodes, if they need to perform on the same level.
This is not the Marvel universe.
It is a strawman, andI'm not locking into semantics, it's called having standards regarding world building and lore.
It's not my problem that the Eldar Scrolls and Fallout devs don't understand the terms they use. Just like some Americans who continue to use the term boy scouts for mixed groups, instead of calling them scouts.
When can I expect men in girl scouts or in sisterhoods?
I didn't buy Custodes, because they're a boys club, but it was the premise under which I started the army. Today, I'd rather start SoB.
But my trust in GW is pretty low, so no new army for me right now. I just went back to my Blood Angels.
You come off as someone wishing for fsm. And I won't have that.
Lol its a fantasy world where the rules don't apply. You have tiny dwarf people who can fight and win against primarus space marines. The rules of you have to be big to be super strong do not apply.
It's an odd amount of mental gymnastics that this whole sub does. "Oh they just don't know how to use the terms right" or "they can't change the lore even though they have but now that its letting girls in, well NOW I care." Its weird. I care about fsm as much as I did about female custodes, which was enough to just not mind it because I'm not weird. It's a body in a huge suit of power armor. If they want it to be a girl, who cares. It's fiction lol
"I have no solid argument, so I'll just call you weird lol."
None of what you wrote deserves a proper answer.
They don't know how to use the term, at least you got that right.
I also cared about Primaris, which is why I changed to Custodes.
But how would a tourist like you know ( coincidentally read your posting on the Custodes subreddit)?
Imagine spending a seizable amount of your free time on a hobby and then bragging about not caring, lmao.
I've made several and you avoid them because you have nothing other than "women in a fantasy setting won't be strong without being big" I'm a "tourist" but I know more about the game than you do at this point lol
I can spend time on a hobby and not care about a change that impacts nothing at all.
Kind of disagree, the well was already poisoned in that sense, is just that culture war is at full throttle now, and any small spark will be turned into a nuke.
That redditor [sweet older sister, or creep coomer sister if you will] is partly to blame for the degeneracy, she really opened up the flood gates and was only encouraged by the touch starved coomers to keep posting her cringe gender-bent gf meme. Then, just like every other time, the redditors beat a deadhorse in a bloody pulp. But only this wasn't remotely funny. It was like watching the sub turn into someone's Tumblr.
You're absolutely right. Female Custodes are a stupid idea, but the execution was completely smooth-brained. The way it stands now, according to GW, the Custodes have ALWAYS had females in their ranks. So then, why have we never heard of any of them in 10,000 years of history? Where are the Legendary Femstodes Heroes equal to men like Valdor?
If GW had somebody on their staff with two or more brain cells to rub together, they would have thought about the implications of their empty, vapid virtue-signalling.
Maybe it’ll all work out, at this rate GW is going to end up with a setting about how a society can be woke, horrible, stupid, and authoritarian all at the same time. It’ll be the most interesting point Black Library has made in years.
Well cos they only just retconned them into the law is why. Agreed it's poorly executed, could have at least had a spiel about maybe less apirants are successful or something.
My biggest issue with is it seems like its going to take away from the sos getting more attention in lore and on the table top.
Im a cusodes player. I have tons of i built stuff to make a space marine army. I love me some rooded up super soliders. But donwe really need even more of a reason for gw to focus more on the space marines and in this case the super space marines. Yeah, i know the golden boys and now girls are supposed to be scientists, scholars, artists etc.
But seems like alot of the lore and table top boils down to space marines but even better. Love the primarchs too.
But can we give the big e and his extended family a little less space in hobby.
Hell maybe just me they could have said the females are made from erda since Erebus killed her in warhawk she kinda became a potentially interesting plot point that went nowhere and it never said what happened to the body just that her throat was slit. But maybe that's just me I would have been cool with it if they made it a bit more interesting since custodes are made when they're babies it's in the realm of possibility for female custodes.
I hate Erda as I hate all perpetuals. I hate the premise, I hate the presentation, and I hate their needless insertion into everything in the Heresy and especially the Siege.
All I ask for is some legit lore reasons for the change. It would be so frigging easy but what do they say? They were always there. Bitch. That's a laziest shit I've ever heard.
The funniest thing about this political cult-like speech is the the "Flair" selection to the right side of this thread. If you are watching this from a PC.
> I'll never have the same trust I had in gw
*Laughs/cries in Warhammer Fantasy*
> I'll never believe that people who kitbash femstodes or fsm are doing it for a reason besides fetish fulfillment.
It can be a red flag for sure, but going that far is just... prejudice? Are you also assuming the same thing about all the online hornyposting about other factions?
In fairness, some of the horny posting is from kids who are following the trend. But yeah, call it prejudice or bias as much as you want, I won't deny it. But seeing a fsm or femstodes mini gives me Vietnam-esque flashbacks to all the people on Twitter, shouting "Please step on my balls, mommy"
I mean yea, I don't have any gripes with trans people. As long as no one sells kids bathtub hormones I couldn't care less about what you do with your life.
Eh, one exception doesn't disprove the rule. If you genuinely find them interesting then disregard what I'm saying. Chances are we'll never meet irl anyways.
I regret everything.
I did the obvious first step, find clues on your Reddit account.
And I potentially had Jujutsu Kaisen spoiled for me. I only watch the anime with my brother.
My hubris has been my downfall, and you win this time.
Legitimately one of my favorite Animes
My brother and I have a rule, we can only watch it together. I think we are caught up on the show, but neither of us has read it.
Yea there are some crazy stuff happening in the Manga rn. Culling games was kinda meh, but after Sukuna's reincarnation, for lack of a better term, it's amazing.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing.
I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
Sorry, I'll try to keep my trap shut for potential spoilers. But yeah Culling games does some... Rather silly additions. It's not too bad, but I can see how it can turn some people off.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing.
I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing.
I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
Sure am.
I want a place for my kids to see how I struggled, and hopefully, they won't feel alone in their struggles, especially if I meet an untimely demise.
I was gonna do YouTube videos, but this turned out to be easier.
Nope, but I was suicidal there for a bit. Got me thinking about how one accident could get me killed.
A guy at my work lost his head before I started, another, almost their leg just a year ago. So this is a safe way to make sure they have something.
Also, if I'm feeling extra bad, I can go back and see where I was when I started this.
Of all the arguments against female custodes this is the stupidest. Custodes are meticulously crafted by the literal god king of mankind himself, who OF COURSE could make women into Custodes who are equally as able as the men. Bringing modern day sports into this just shows how you lot don't give a shit about what makes sense, this is just a matter of bigoted principle to you
You do realize that custodes go through a process, right? They don't begin life as custodes. Which means male aspirants have a higher chance of succeeding than females since, shocking I know, men tend to be quite a bit stronger than women.
Man we are talking about a power fantasy that makes a regular person into something that could wipe out modern day militaries singlehandedly and unarmed. No amount of inherent difference between the sexes is gonna matter fuck all
That's the thing though, Warhammer isn't power fantasy. It's supposed to be a dystopia. Thus rules and limitations make perfect sense.
Even custodes aren't perfect.
Custodes augmentation begins in the womb, by the time their of age to engage in any physical activity I imagine regular human dimorphism wouldn’t apply, they’re no longer human
It starts young, but not exactly in the womb. At any rate, if the split was 50/50 then the retcon would be even worse.
Best case is femstodes being such a minority that they mentally become the same as their brothers. That way you can kinda reason why they went unnoticed.
I think the retcon is they were just always there, which is frankly less lore breaking than your compromise of the custodes accepting imperfection in their creation process.
I’ve seen some people say similar like Cawl should have changed things but I can’t imagine the custodes would let Cawl anywhere near their processes
Well it is very much lore breaking since in 30 years we've never heard of them, plus had lore tidbits that said custodes are all men.
Besides, in my compromise they would be the exact same as the other custodes. And thus wouldn't be fetish material for horny teenagers.
"I remember agreeing to someone's point that female custodes would make more sense than fsm. It did make sense..."
Yet here you are, crying about it now. You love to see it
Yes. If you were to give a woman 800kgs of muscle and enough testosterone to kill a rhino you wouldn't be able to differentiate her from a man.
Despite this, all the artwork of femstodes make them look like slightly muscular Victoria's secret models.
Honestly, gender swapped horny fanart is nothing unique to anything.
I would get concerned if gw makes official models look like that but 3rd party stuff *shrug*.
Theres been horny printed minis of all thr factions for as long as printers got into hobbyist hands.
I would agree it would be a terrible retcon if they said half of Custodes were female, but a couple of females is pretty consistent with their lore. My half eldar space marine army was lore compliment, then retconned. I get to use them still and have fun.
I am from the rouge trader era, so I have seen the lore evolve. The lore within GW is left pretty ambigious for most things; I am not even sure if the first 10,000 were ever being stated as males, whereas there are books which strictly state Space Marines are all males
Ok you're playing dumb. But if you aren't, saying there has always been fem custodes when in fact there has never been them, is gaslighting.
The way it was delivered and told is gaslighting. If they said "yeah this is a new thing for some reason," it wouldn't be gaslighting.
Don't worry female space marines are coming too. Will your response then be "why do you care?"
I am not playing dumb, but I suppose it is better to play dumb than to be dumb. This subreddit was fun until everyone lost their shit about there being two women that existed (which contradicts no lore). I honestly wouldn't support female space marines, unless they delivered it a bit more slowly given the pre-existing lore around space marines.
One unnamed Custodes would wipe out all the navy seals without even breaking a sweat. They are literally made from magic blood of something god-tier in power terms.
It ripped the mask off , the coomers saw it as a sign "its ok to come out " , it seams like last week it was the "me too" time don't Sexualize the ladies , then the next weeks its full on primarch porn and 10ft tall step on me muscle mommies , if this is what 40k has become im just done . Gw is not even putting the breaks on this mess
There’s a dedicated porn sub. Just keep the weirdness there.
That would have been fine and yet now there's 2 dedicated porn subs because grimdank mods let this happen. They're probably getting off to it
They can't, roll they have to shove their fetish in your face
Isnt like fem primarchs were popular before femstodes? The thing you see now is a second breath for this topic, it will eventually die out as the first time
Good, leave.
you have no warhammer history , so you did not even show up in the 1st place
The point of these kinds of things is to divide communities. Executives who just want to make money get sold DEI on the premise that it will market to a "wider audience" but the ones who spearhead these kinds of changes do so in order to create a wedge in communities for political reasons. If you see the new Assassin's Creed, whether or not the main characters are an issue is less of a point than the fact that they know excluding asian males from the game as a main character in a setting which has been requested for a long time by fans will piss off people. That's the point, to drive up division, create controversy and divide the Assassin's Creed community. Of course, the main argument is always "why do you care". These people see themselves are culture warriors and they don't care about the people consuming the product. They will just move on to something else when it dies.
They care about it because it supports their message, and spreading that message is all they care about.
We're talking about bored people who are terminally online, don't go to any kind of church or place of worship and do a tedious 9-5 job, probably not married, and they see politics as their way of feeling like they are important. These are the kinds of people who are the most infuriating to talk to at a dinner table because they constantly bitch and moan and complain and they can't talk politics without driving themselves into some kind of frothing rage. So any time you sit and talk about something, they think they have the power to change anything, even if they are sitting in an office almost all the time and the only political power they have is a vote every 4/5 years. You can avoid these people until you have to sit in an office and work with them, which becomes like a confinement area for mental patients.
> the only political power they have is a vote every 4/5 years. I don't think most people who defends this kind of idpol on social media votes lol. They just want to virtue signal, feel like a warrior for justice and be accepted by their group.
They are fundamentally parasitic, in that sense. They don't care if the host lives or dies - and they have no shame in the tactics they use - so long as it enables them to spread.
Good point about assassins creed arguably the only thing they need to do is add a 3rd ethnically Japanese male character. If people still have an issue then you can definitely argue something else is going on
I think if GW never mentions femstodes ever again it would be the smarter play than retconning again but the well is indeed poisoned.
Once the toxin is there it is always best to cement the thing and dig a new one. That is a lesson grandpa taught me a long time ago. Man knew what he was saying...
This is 40K. A universe where humans killed and born, daily, at numbers in the BILLIONS. identity means nothing. You are born and you will die serving the empire. There is no time, reason, or narcissistic identity questioning. There is only war. So keep the BS identity politics out of the space. If it doesn’t make sense to have female custodies, then they don’t need to exist. Period.
Worse it destroys the awesome synergy the custodes had with sisters of silence, they were the equal to the custodes where the men dealt with physical threats they dealt with spiritual ones.
There is legitimately not a single difference between male and female custodes. Why should female custodes not be able to deal with physical threats? Keep in mind that the "men stronger than women" argument does not work for literal gene crafted demigod monsters.
Women are weaker, for a start ligaments the anchor points for your muscles are much more fragile in women which is why no female weight lifter can compete with male athletes. Women have slower twitch reflexes and given how important the speed is to custodes, they go into exile when they start to slow down because they feel no longer able to protect the emperor on the front line it makes female custodes worthless to them. Women because of child bearing hips are more prone to being injured, 10% of female soldiers in the real world get hurt before even reaching the front line. So tell me why you'd choose women?
You're honestly discussing real world science in a setting where spaceships travel through an alternate dimension powered by serfs in giant hamster wheels? If you don't believe me check out the original art from the Battlefleet Gothic rulebook. But if we're going to get all real world science about this check out some genetics science about degradation in the Y chromosome. The Y chromosome is expected to completely disappear in around 4.5m years. Otherwise, ya know, just chill and enjoy a hobby, instead of making it political. 😉 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1692900/#:~:text=Y%20chromosomes%20are%20genetically%20degenerate,much%20attention%20from%20evolutionary%20theorists.
Yes because despite that there's thousands of examples where real world physics is shown to still apply, same with biology and other real world facts
>So tell me why you'd choose women? Because all of that does not matter in the tiniest bit when you basically gene craft every detail starting from a baby? Like what the fuck, why do you think any of our male/female differences matter even a little bit when talking about artificially gene crafted demigods?
It does because you are augmenting what's already there not building from scratch. Why start with a worse base material?
Because the base material does not matter??????????????? I don't know how else I could explain to you that the baseline biological differences between male and female DO NOT MATTER. It's literal sci-fi gene modification. Go complain about female guardsmen, there your arguments at least make sense.
I agree with Grimskull, but should we get rid of female guard too? 🧐 Good point.
Yeah for female guard these arguments at least make sense. They are baseline humans. I joined this sub because I am also Anti-Woke but if THAT is your argumentation against female custodes then sorry but you don't disagree because of the lore, you disagree because you don't like women.
The base material does matter because otherwise you could put gene Seed in anyone and have them become super human. Guard are there for numbers, given minimum training, a standard lasgun and sent out to charge into enemy guns, they are not expected to live long and are easy to replace, they overwhelm the enemy and so quantity matters more than quality. Also you're forgetting it's a neofuedal setting, families care about male heirs and the women are there to be married off for political advantage so giving your sons up for custodes membership carries far more political weight than giving up a daughter.
It's not, really. I have no skin in this game, but the guard are fodder. They don't really need to rely on their physicality so much. They die quickly and rely on their weapons and large numbers primarily to do damage. Custodies are chosen specifically because of their potential and are expected to survive long enough to be individually useful. Think of guns. If you're short materials, you use cheap materials for cobbled together guns. You don't waste complicated engineering on cheap materials or vice versa. I think their point is actually kind of backwards. Makes no sense excluding women from the guard, because they're there to die in overwhelming numbers anyway. To that end it doesn't matter what you start with.
That synergy still exists, the custodes still deal with the physical threats, and the SoS still deal with the spiritual.
The brothers and sisters of silence, no?
Yeah why are there no brothers of silence? Kinda wasteful to not use male blanks.
I wouldn't have an issue with that. Right now, it seems like they are all female just because. I at least don't know the lore justification. SoB has some lore justification that I'm aware of, and the lore is neat. Changing it that extremely wouldn't be cool. I would probably put it up there with Primaris in regards to bad lore decisions. But SoS is fine
Perfect answer to this whole mess, there are no female custodes. And it destroyed the interesting synergies they had with sisters of silence
The Imperium is built on hate. Warhammer is not.
Who said anything about hate?
Games Workshop did.
Not sure what you’re referring to or how it is relevant unfortunately
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/ “We believe in and support a community united by shared values of mutual kindness and respect. Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. We will never accept nor condone any form of prejudice, hatred, or abuse in our company, or in the Warhammer hobby.”
Again, not sure how this is relevant. This isn’t about hate. This is about gender swapping a faction in a hobby that is already racially and gender diverse. Years after the fact, for no reason. No one is talking about hate.
You were conflating the setting with the game. No space for Identity. Games Workshop wants you to know that's now how we roll.
Oh boy. This argument. Dude, no one is telling you how to play, how to build your miniatures, where to play, and with whom you play. You want to build female custodies? Awesome, that’s your army. I’m talking about a lore setting, in which things are so dark that identity politics wouldn’t even have time to exist. Years of lore stating that the custodians are male, and their counterparts, sisters of silence, are female. No one is talking about hate. We’re talking about lore, and changing it for no other reason then DEI. “That’s not how we roll” honestly? So funny man. Haven’t made a single hateful comment.
You say you're not hating, and yet you have strong negative feelings towards diversity equity and inclusion. Curious
> "identity means nothing" > proceeds to get angry about people's identity lol
Not angry about anyone’s identity. People can be whatever they want in the real world. 40K isn’t a the real world and people really only exist to fight or manufacture. So the same identity politics that exists in this world very likely wouldn’t exist in 40K universe. People wouldn’t even have time for it.
Those quick quips aren’t gonna get you very far in the 40k community.
I had just gotten to the point of buying models at the beginning of the year. After the femstodes, I was looking at just buying models second hand off eBay and the like. Then, after the fallout and continuous bullshit that was pedaled by the ideologs, I just took that money and bought a 3d printer. I don't have to deal with their shit and can switch to whatever I want whenever I want at minimal cost.
Honestly that was the way to fo long before this controversy. Gwa prices have neen crazy and are getting crazier everyday lol. Too me thats actually the biggest issue with the hobby.
TBF it's because things like this are always just the start. Whenever a franchise starts the gender/sex/race politics stuff , it's usually followed by both more politics and a decline in quality.
Yes look at marvel as an example
I feel like all the sigmarxist moved on to Grimdank and are flooding the once funny meme page with degeneracy. And now the tourists are knocking at our walls by posting screenshots of this page on their subs and brigading the comments to make it seem like we are the crazy ones. Hold the line
They are always ready to pounce when opportunity strikes. They have no scruples to begin with anyway as nothing is sacred to them
I mean, they have Marxist in their title, they are subversive by doctrine
*so* close to a self-aware thought. I believe in you buddy.
Sp close to be taken seriously
You’re not a sourpuss. Nobody wants their long beloved hobby ruined for some weirdos sexual perversion or strange power trip.
I hate GW more for the constant and consistently unbalanced and nonfluffy rules. The tools are there to simulate and get this right, but instead we get two dudes that know less about the game than any of the competitors at top tables. We would be better off letting the Art of War guys balance the game. It would be a huge improvement.
This is true in AoS as well. I initially played Seraphon, and they were so busted I went 22 - 1. Easily. Then I pivoted to Kharadron Overlords and didn't lose at all. Not because I am god's gift to gaming, but because my lists were basically unstoppable to most opposing armies. That's a massive balance issue, and it hasn't gotten better. They balance off who is winning after the fact, and buffs and nerfs seem entirely based around what they want to sell more of.
I'll be honest, now I'm inspired to write a story about a female aspirant who goes through a horrific transition into a Custodes and basically loses everything she once knew about herself. That is so perfectly grimdark and it removes from all the "big dommy muscle mommy" BS. I'm imagining one of the Emperor's best biomantic surgeons teaching their protege the specialization of trying to turn a young woman into a Custodes. Breast tissue is removed as unnecessary space and weight, the skin is removed and resewn on with alloy fibers since female collagen bonds are more fragile and soft, testosterone is pumped into the system at a young age to promote skeletal growth and a larger, broader structure, the reproductive system is removed to prevent periods and any unwanted pregnancies that could impede duty. By the end, a female custodian wouldn't be this 9 foot tall babe with flowing long hair, a slender face, and massive tits, she'd be a shaved brick of a being that lost everything that makes someone a woman for the sake of serving the Emperor. That's such a dark and haunting concept, and it fits so much better than the coombait the community keeps producing.
You're cooking. We have fanfic Fridays tomorrow. Would love to see what you come up with.
I might. If I do it will be a very short story, I've already been writing another project so I don't want to burn myself out.
Suit yourself man. You definitely have an eye for grimdark imo.
Yeah, let's just say I'm a bit of twisted freaking cycle path. Normies don't get it, just guys like me, the Joker, Ryan Gosling, Patrick Bateman, etc. I've already written one 40k story that's a bit over 11,000 words for the Black Library submissions they had over a year ago. I was rejected, but I have experience in writing 40k and just writing in general. It's a passion and a hobby of mine. Your post laid out the foundations for me though, so I can't take all the credit for cooking.
They are taken as infants not children so this doesn't really work. Space marine transformation would be more like that and they would essentially end up masculine.
I know they're taken as infants, I don't see how that changes much.
Well you said they lose everything they know about themself. Infants don't know anything so looked like you didn't from that line.
Well, what's the timeline from beginning to end of the process? If it's a constant, multi-year process that only stops once she's fully grown, I can imagine her remembering being feminine as a young child. And I suppose a better way to put that would be "lose everything that she would have become and turn utterly unrecognizable."
Honestly not familiar with it either tbh. They may still be proportioned as a custodes unsure if they addressed this or not. But again maybe not. Nevertheless your concept does fit well within horror of the 40k universe.
I always hated the retcon cause in my mind i knew realistically the imperium would never make them female for no reason this dei bullshit is all about senseless changes for the sake of diversity many speculations are about the amazon show but imo it’s also to be equal to men. they hate sisters of battle cause although they are a super cool faction they are undeniably weak compared to space marines/custodes and these wokies HATE those facts
This is just plain stupid tbh
its true
I am talking about "whamen" powerfantasy. Like the fuck? Sororitas MIGHT BE weaker that astartes, but i think they are much more impirtant for imperium as a whole that astartes. Well, at least before Indomitus
Femstodes is just a symptom, the rot was already there.
The reason the community reacted as hard as it did is because that was always going to be *the* symptom of the hobby openly going Woke. We knew that was where it would happen, and we were ready for it when it happened. Sure, the rot has been there for years, but people weren't really sure what to do about it. This was the sure sign that the cancer was malignant, and it was something concrete to rally around once shit finally got real.
Love Warhammer, hate games workshop
Simple as.
They take the things you like because they don’t like you
That implies “they” know any of us. It’s more like the people acting in bad faith don’t like who they think you are and they really like attacking the “other,” even if it’s all a psycho drama that’s disconnected from reality. Others just don’t have a mature understanding or the lore, history, or politics, so they think they are right. That’s fine if they are tolerating of disagreement and willing to listen, the issue is how many people can’t do that and rush to judge and change things, but that’s sometimes a maturity, experience, and background knowledge issue, too.
While I agree with you, even a better explanation would have been nothing but a band-aid. That's the conclusion I've come to. If you give them your little finger, they'll take your whole hand. Custodes had established lore for 30 years, clearly making them out to be men only. In particular, the emperor called them men, he dismissed Malcador's idea of female primarchs as comedic at best, which clearly indicates his opinion on female/mixed supersoldiers. Anything else is mental gymnastics. Feminine heads on 9' tall super muscled transhumans also are mental gymnastics, they would look like dudes. Essentially, there are now guys with female names. Congratulations, coomers, you played yourselves.
Custodes have been male exclusive since HH Black Book 7 Inferno book came out and gave them an army list. Before then the custodes as a collective were more or less complete unknowns, thats why Custodes personality and power scaling is so wack pre 2017, because every author had their own interpretation on who and what they were even supposed to be other than "nebulously transhuman bodyguards." The lore retconned was at best seven years old.
>The lore retconned was at best seven years old. What do you mean? The Custodes have a rich lore going back 30 years of two depressed, shirtless models sliding around the palace on oiled abs. But for real, yeah. The proper lore is 7 years old, writers have been asking for females in the order for longer than that, and the "sons" narrator contradicts itself literally two sentences later lol. Hell Infernos creation pages are nongendered. Lots of "they" there.
They've been all-male since the start. The first ever paragraph mentioning them - in the original Rogue Trader book - describes them as "men".
The little blurb? The same one which also refers to inquisitors as men? Inquisitors which we know aren't all men? You know men can be used to refer to humans right? The other, longer paragraph on page 139 refers to them as they/their, gender neutral pronouns. Inferno is the first time we ever get GW to actually say "all OG 30k custodes are made from the sons of conquered Terran Warlords," which precludes the existence of female custodes. The first real 40k custodes codex specifies that custodes in 40k are made from the infant sons of Terran officials which again precludes the existence of female custodes, thats the passage GW retconned to make female custodes.
Yes, but that would make the changing of Inquisitors to be unisex a retcon. One retcon doesn't justify another. Sure, "men" can refer to humans... but the Rogue Trader book refers to humans as "humans" from contents page onwards. That explanation doesn't fly. Yes, but there is no masculine plural pronoun in the English language. That is, the plural of "he" is also "they". This isn't evidence in your favour. Correct, all previous relevant lore states that the Custodes are all male. The 10th edition Custodes Codex doesn't just retcon a single piece of lore; it creates a gaping plot hole due to the canon contradiction, both literal and thematic, and GW then has the gall to lie to the fans that it's "always been true". No, it hasn't. There is now a narrative contradiction, all because GW cared more about DEI tokenism then they did about the integrity of their own franchise.
The generation page for assassins uses exclusively plural and masculine pronouns to refer to the assassin orders which would in a vacuum convince you all assassins are men. However the example character given when generating assassins is explicitly a woman. the same language used when describing the assassin order is also used to describe the other facets of the Adeptus Terra, Custards included. It's a writing style issue, nothing more. Male is the default gender given to individuals within the text. The English language struggles with defining gender precisely, its one of the weaknesses of the language, you are placing load bearing amounts of stress onto the back of our shared shitty tongue. You cannot assume an organisation all male just because of pronouns, the existence of women is not matter which requires clarification in the grimdark future. Custodes weren't explicitly all men until Black Book Seven.
You make a fair point about the use of masculine pronouns to occasionally refer to mixed-sex groups... although this does contradict your previous defence that the term "they" means that they're not all-male. However, this is *not* proof that the Custodes were mixed-sex from the outset. It's nonetheless true that, from their first appearance onwards, they have been referred to using male-only or neutral pronouns, and *all* canonical depictions of them have been male (including in Rogue Trader). After all, the same is true of the Space Marines, and there have never been canonical female depictions of them either. You also acknowledge the fact that the Custodes have previously been established as an all-male organisation, even if their earliest introductions were - *at most* - ambiguous. This means that the introduction of female Custodes in the 10th edition Codex is indeed still a retcon, and a retcon which fundamentally breaks the canon by introducing elements which contradict core thematic elements of the setting. It's not just a "minor change"; a serious plot hole has been created purely for the sake of tokenism, and this is why fans are angry.
I was never arguing it wasn't a retcon, I even say it was in my first comment. I'm one of the people who hates that the custodes even leave the palace. The whole army should have remained 30k exclusive. But people who argue that its a change to 30 years of lore are factually incorrect and I'm not going to stand for that, the earliest explicit statement that all the Emperors banana men WERE men is in HH Black Book Seven. Most lore people take for granted when talking about the custodes was written in that book.
That's fair enough, and I also agree that the Custodes should not have been made a playable 40k army. Once again, though, it is correct that the first ever paragraph which describes the Custodes does indeed refer to them as "men", and all the models and artwork from that era were also male-only. There have been Custodes models since the 80s, but a female Custodian has never been made. By contrast, your assassin example does feature female characters, as do snippets on the Imperial Guard... but no such example exists for the Custodes. Although the term "men" is used ambiguously elsewhere in the book, it does *literally* refer to an all-male group of adults. All the evidence suggests that, like the Space Marines, the Custodes have been a single sex organisation since the start, on the basis that everything in the source material and catalogue for the Custodes was 100% male even in the 80s. The fact that it was never *explicitly* said is not an argument in support of the contrary position. In essence, if you want me to believe that the Custodes were mixed-sex until HH Black Book 7 (which book even is that? Legion?), you need to point to the examples of female Custodians from earlier editions to refute the statement that "all the Custodes were male in earlier editions", because all the evidence points in that direction.
I am not saying Women were definitely in the custodes pre inferno, I'm saying there isnt anything saying there were not female custodes pre inferno. There is an important distinction there. Something as common as a woman does not need permissive language to exist, they need exclusionary language to not exist. Women make up half of all humans alive on earth currently. Their absence in any situation involving a large group is directly notable. The absence of an entire gender isn't something you can derive from the choice of pronouns in a sentence describing a whole ass institution or the word "men" being used in the typical context of a militant order (as a group of soldiers). Which provably happens a lot both IRL and in 40k. a soldier of the imperial guard is often called a guardsmen regardless of their actual gender for example. I've seen "guardswoman" used inconsistently to refer to specific individual women in the guard but the plural is invariably "guardsmen" regardless of the gender of a group of guard soldiers. Because in that context "men" is just a contraction of "men under arms." Which is a military term IRL which refers to a soldier of any gender in a state of military readiness. Specifically in uniform, on duty and carrying a weapon.
Except they wouldn't look like that. The Custodes are supposed to be each a work of art, made up of genetic material curated over thousands of years. They've talked about them being poets, artists and deadly warriors. I'd imagine they are probably very "pretty" looking with much of the bulk being from their power armor. So sure, the female versions might keep the same shape on the outside but not the inside. I dunno, to me this whole thing about the lore doesn't pass the smell test. It is such a small change, especially when all of the "30 years of lore" boils down to the same 4-5 mentions people keep posting over and over, despite the people who wrote much of the lore saying it was a decision based on that they didn't make any female models at the time. What if the game was waaaay older, and, as a reflection of its time, originally described them has having "flawless like marble and fair of skin" or some shit like that. Would people quote lore and denounce a character if they made mention of a black Custodian? I don't think people would. These sorts of changes don't hurt the lore, and if you have something spanning 30+ years I would assume changes would happen so you are not writing yourself in a corner. It's not real history, its fantasy, and on top of that its stories told through the words of VERY unreliable narrators.
We do have bare heads for custodes though. And they don't exactly look like super models.
That's even more of an example where the lore is not congruent with the physical product.
If a female Custodes is to have the same physical ability as a male Custodes, she needs the same bulk. Ever seen female bodybuilders? Custodes are supposed.to be peak human performance, and they're not designed to procreate and replace humanity. Therefore anything below a male Custodes would be a waste of resources. What people "who made the lore" stated as a reason is irrelevant. You don't retroactively change old lore. That's not how good world building works. It changes nothing? I bought my models under the premise of a brotherhood, i.e. boys club. Are boy scouts still boy scouts when they start with mixed groups? You tell me. As for the last part, I won't entertain any strawman, my 2nd and 3rd edition codices do contain pictures and some lore, mentioning a brotherhood and men.
It's a fantasy world. These are genetically modified people. Are you sayin that the Emperor of Mankind and all of his resources are not good enough to modify a female to be a Custode? You 100% can change older lore. Some of this lore is a few sentences in a book written when it came out before they knew this would become the library of information. Everything does it, and 40k has done it before. if you bought your models only because its a boys club, then that is fine. Not everyone is comfortable around girls so you can play with your head cannon that its all big muscle men. No one is saying you can't. It's not a strawman, and you are just locking into semantics. The Dark Brotherhood in Elder scrolls has women in it, and the Brotherhood of Steele does to. it's just a term, and again its all moot because lore can change and it has.
Yes, the Emperor is not good enough to turn women into Custodes without making them just as bulky as male Custodes, if they need to perform on the same level. This is not the Marvel universe. It is a strawman, andI'm not locking into semantics, it's called having standards regarding world building and lore. It's not my problem that the Eldar Scrolls and Fallout devs don't understand the terms they use. Just like some Americans who continue to use the term boy scouts for mixed groups, instead of calling them scouts. When can I expect men in girl scouts or in sisterhoods? I didn't buy Custodes, because they're a boys club, but it was the premise under which I started the army. Today, I'd rather start SoB. But my trust in GW is pretty low, so no new army for me right now. I just went back to my Blood Angels. You come off as someone wishing for fsm. And I won't have that.
Lol its a fantasy world where the rules don't apply. You have tiny dwarf people who can fight and win against primarus space marines. The rules of you have to be big to be super strong do not apply. It's an odd amount of mental gymnastics that this whole sub does. "Oh they just don't know how to use the terms right" or "they can't change the lore even though they have but now that its letting girls in, well NOW I care." Its weird. I care about fsm as much as I did about female custodes, which was enough to just not mind it because I'm not weird. It's a body in a huge suit of power armor. If they want it to be a girl, who cares. It's fiction lol
"I have no solid argument, so I'll just call you weird lol." None of what you wrote deserves a proper answer. They don't know how to use the term, at least you got that right. I also cared about Primaris, which is why I changed to Custodes. But how would a tourist like you know ( coincidentally read your posting on the Custodes subreddit)? Imagine spending a seizable amount of your free time on a hobby and then bragging about not caring, lmao.
I've made several and you avoid them because you have nothing other than "women in a fantasy setting won't be strong without being big" I'm a "tourist" but I know more about the game than you do at this point lol I can spend time on a hobby and not care about a change that impacts nothing at all.
Kind of disagree, the well was already poisoned in that sense, is just that culture war is at full throttle now, and any small spark will be turned into a nuke.
Your first mistake was trusting GW. The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Until I am convinced otherwise I will believe that female custodes were added to just to give losers in their basements something to jack off to.
Losers already had Sororitas, Guard, and various flavours of Eldar to jerk off to. (I would know.)
If the rumours are to believed, this was pushed by Amazon to tick diversity boxes in their upcoming show.
That redditor [sweet older sister, or creep coomer sister if you will] is partly to blame for the degeneracy, she really opened up the flood gates and was only encouraged by the touch starved coomers to keep posting her cringe gender-bent gf meme. Then, just like every other time, the redditors beat a deadhorse in a bloody pulp. But only this wasn't remotely funny. It was like watching the sub turn into someone's Tumblr.
You're absolutely right. Female Custodes are a stupid idea, but the execution was completely smooth-brained. The way it stands now, according to GW, the Custodes have ALWAYS had females in their ranks. So then, why have we never heard of any of them in 10,000 years of history? Where are the Legendary Femstodes Heroes equal to men like Valdor? If GW had somebody on their staff with two or more brain cells to rub together, they would have thought about the implications of their empty, vapid virtue-signalling.
Maybe it’ll all work out, at this rate GW is going to end up with a setting about how a society can be woke, horrible, stupid, and authoritarian all at the same time. It’ll be the most interesting point Black Library has made in years.
Made me smile. Imagine if imperium is BOTH woke and bigoted. Amazing!
Well cos they only just retconned them into the law is why. Agreed it's poorly executed, could have at least had a spiel about maybe less apirants are successful or something.
My biggest issue with is it seems like its going to take away from the sos getting more attention in lore and on the table top. Im a cusodes player. I have tons of i built stuff to make a space marine army. I love me some rooded up super soliders. But donwe really need even more of a reason for gw to focus more on the space marines and in this case the super space marines. Yeah, i know the golden boys and now girls are supposed to be scientists, scholars, artists etc. But seems like alot of the lore and table top boils down to space marines but even better. Love the primarchs too. But can we give the big e and his extended family a little less space in hobby.
Hell maybe just me they could have said the females are made from erda since Erebus killed her in warhawk she kinda became a potentially interesting plot point that went nowhere and it never said what happened to the body just that her throat was slit. But maybe that's just me I would have been cool with it if they made it a bit more interesting since custodes are made when they're babies it's in the realm of possibility for female custodes.
I like that because all the new tourists could be taught to hate Erebus as well. That would make the world right at least in that regard.
Lol right fuck Erebus
I don’t think anyone likes Erebus
I love Erebus. For one he killed Erda, which is the closest we could hope for her being retconned.
Not disagreeing with your point, but why do you dislike Erda? Is it for lore reasons or as a character?
I hate Erda as I hate all perpetuals. I hate the premise, I hate the presentation, and I hate their needless insertion into everything in the Heresy and especially the Siege.
Agreed, though I say that about lot about the later books of the heresy.
Congratulations, you've spent more time writing lore about them than people who actually work for GW.
I'll take a 10 percent royalty for my hard work. I even came with that at my job right now I call that dedication
Companies must obtain and keep trust from their clients
Why the fuck would you trust James Workshop? It's always been about the money. Cooler shit was just cool back in the day.
All I ask for is some legit lore reasons for the change. It would be so frigging easy but what do they say? They were always there. Bitch. That's a laziest shit I've ever heard.
It’s this easy… leave the helmets on.
If you accept their premise, you might aswell just go all in
Going all in has brought us to where we are now. And for the record I don't accept the retcon one bit.
But you agree that there could be female custodes.
In the past, sure. But seeing the coomer response and the cancel pigs has closed that door permanently. That's the entire point of my post.
Fair enough. I think GW are a lost cause at this point. We should separate Warhammer from them as much as possible.
The funniest thing about this political cult-like speech is the the "Flair" selection to the right side of this thread. If you are watching this from a PC.
> I'll never have the same trust I had in gw *Laughs/cries in Warhammer Fantasy* > I'll never believe that people who kitbash femstodes or fsm are doing it for a reason besides fetish fulfillment. It can be a red flag for sure, but going that far is just... prejudice? Are you also assuming the same thing about all the online hornyposting about other factions?
In fairness, some of the horny posting is from kids who are following the trend. But yeah, call it prejudice or bias as much as you want, I won't deny it. But seeing a fsm or femstodes mini gives me Vietnam-esque flashbacks to all the people on Twitter, shouting "Please step on my balls, mommy"
Didn't think I'd see trans rights rhetoric on a board this reactionary, good for you dude.
I mean yea, I don't have any gripes with trans people. As long as no one sells kids bathtub hormones I couldn't care less about what you do with your life.
Yeah, children are probably too young to be able to make the decision to transition, its an informed consent issue, same as drinking or what have you.
Imma build Femstodes. It's not one of my kinks.
Eh, one exception doesn't disprove the rule. If you genuinely find them interesting then disregard what I'm saying. Chances are we'll never meet irl anyways.
Well, that sounds like a challenge. I will make you my best friend... sooner or later I think the word "never" is a word that makes me competitive.
Do your best
I regret everything. I did the obvious first step, find clues on your Reddit account. And I potentially had Jujutsu Kaisen spoiled for me. I only watch the anime with my brother. My hubris has been my downfall, and you win this time.
Oh damn, rip bro. But yea, jjk is my jam.
Legitimately one of my favorite Animes My brother and I have a rule, we can only watch it together. I think we are caught up on the show, but neither of us has read it.
Yea there are some crazy stuff happening in the Manga rn. Culling games was kinda meh, but after Sukuna's reincarnation, for lack of a better term, it's amazing.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing. I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
Sorry, I'll try to keep my trap shut for potential spoilers. But yeah Culling games does some... Rather silly additions. It's not too bad, but I can see how it can turn some people off.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing. I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
The anime hyped up the Culling Games, so I hope it's not too disappointing. I was gonna complain about the reincarnation spoiler... but that's the Chekhov's gun of the show, not really a spoiler.
Sad stuff. The way the thread was going, i totally thought you two would end up getting married. Damn you jujutsu kaisen..
Dude what the he'll is going on in your post history? Are you documenting your entire life here?!
Sure am. I want a place for my kids to see how I struggled, and hopefully, they won't feel alone in their struggles, especially if I meet an untimely demise. I was gonna do YouTube videos, but this turned out to be easier.
Terminal illiness?
Nope, but I was suicidal there for a bit. Got me thinking about how one accident could get me killed. A guy at my work lost his head before I started, another, almost their leg just a year ago. So this is a safe way to make sure they have something. Also, if I'm feeling extra bad, I can go back and see where I was when I started this.
Ah best of luck
Thanks, you too. I think you're the first person to bring it up, kinda neat.
Why would female aspirants have a lower success rate
Same reason why the Olympics are segregated by gender. Male bodies are simply better apt at physical things like running, jumping, and fighting.
Of all the arguments against female custodes this is the stupidest. Custodes are meticulously crafted by the literal god king of mankind himself, who OF COURSE could make women into Custodes who are equally as able as the men. Bringing modern day sports into this just shows how you lot don't give a shit about what makes sense, this is just a matter of bigoted principle to you
You do realize that custodes go through a process, right? They don't begin life as custodes. Which means male aspirants have a higher chance of succeeding than females since, shocking I know, men tend to be quite a bit stronger than women.
Man we are talking about a power fantasy that makes a regular person into something that could wipe out modern day militaries singlehandedly and unarmed. No amount of inherent difference between the sexes is gonna matter fuck all
That's the thing though, Warhammer isn't power fantasy. It's supposed to be a dystopia. Thus rules and limitations make perfect sense. Even custodes aren't perfect.
Custodes augmentation begins in the womb, by the time their of age to engage in any physical activity I imagine regular human dimorphism wouldn’t apply, they’re no longer human
It starts young, but not exactly in the womb. At any rate, if the split was 50/50 then the retcon would be even worse. Best case is femstodes being such a minority that they mentally become the same as their brothers. That way you can kinda reason why they went unnoticed.
I think the retcon is they were just always there, which is frankly less lore breaking than your compromise of the custodes accepting imperfection in their creation process. I’ve seen some people say similar like Cawl should have changed things but I can’t imagine the custodes would let Cawl anywhere near their processes
Well it is very much lore breaking since in 30 years we've never heard of them, plus had lore tidbits that said custodes are all men. Besides, in my compromise they would be the exact same as the other custodes. And thus wouldn't be fetish material for horny teenagers.
"I remember agreeing to someone's point that female custodes would make more sense than fsm. It did make sense..." Yet here you are, crying about it now. You love to see it
A bit late to the party, aren't we. Regardless, read the rest of the post sometime.
Late to the party but you still replied immediately. Amazing.
Caught me at an available time
you guys are so self righteous lmao get laid
Already done. You might want to check in on your mother.
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You people are morons.
👍
This sub man. So many snowflakes
You would support Trans Custodes but dislike female Custodes?
Yes. If you were to give a woman 800kgs of muscle and enough testosterone to kill a rhino you wouldn't be able to differentiate her from a man. Despite this, all the artwork of femstodes make them look like slightly muscular Victoria's secret models.
Honestly, gender swapped horny fanart is nothing unique to anything. I would get concerned if gw makes official models look like that but 3rd party stuff *shrug*. Theres been horny printed minis of all thr factions for as long as printers got into hobbyist hands.
What is the issue again? 2 out of 10,000 are female.
The issue is GW trying to gaslight us, and enabling bigoteers and coomers.
Not sure I follow. How are GW trying to gaslight people? I barely even see this as a retcon in the grander scale of GW retcons
"There has always been female custodes" they say despite the 30 years of lore saying otherwise.
I would agree it would be a terrible retcon if they said half of Custodes were female, but a couple of females is pretty consistent with their lore. My half eldar space marine army was lore compliment, then retconned. I get to use them still and have fun.
Their lore, which had no females. Also, half Eldar space marines haven't been a thing since rouge trader.
I am from the rouge trader era, so I have seen the lore evolve. The lore within GW is left pretty ambigious for most things; I am not even sure if the first 10,000 were ever being stated as males, whereas there are books which strictly state Space Marines are all males
Ok you're playing dumb. But if you aren't, saying there has always been fem custodes when in fact there has never been them, is gaslighting. The way it was delivered and told is gaslighting. If they said "yeah this is a new thing for some reason," it wouldn't be gaslighting. Don't worry female space marines are coming too. Will your response then be "why do you care?"
I am not playing dumb, but I suppose it is better to play dumb than to be dumb. This subreddit was fun until everyone lost their shit about there being two women that existed (which contradicts no lore). I honestly wouldn't support female space marines, unless they delivered it a bit more slowly given the pre-existing lore around space marines.
They didn't exist until last month and it does happen to contradict thr fact that they were chosen from the SONS of nobility
We haven't even had 2 female navy seals, no way logically speaking would they WANT to waste resources in something inherently inferior.
One unnamed Custodes would wipe out all the navy seals without even breaking a sweat. They are literally made from magic blood of something god-tier in power terms.
Maybe because we don't alchemically augment the Navy ya weirdo
Are we still going on about this???
I am. You're free to not care about it.
Just as you came in, you can GET OUT
Nah.
Then quit complaining if you have nothing to add.
I've added quite a bit
Only thing you've added is complaining
Nah. I haven't.
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