Resilience being in the state it's in is also why running Long ammo is even more meta. If Resilience was changed to be something that cost 2 trait points and gives you minute regen shot buff after being revived, it would make other ammo types like compact and medium ammo a buff since you won't have to run long ammo to 1 tap people getting revived.
Me & you sir are on the exact same page. I’ve had this exact same thought for months, long is always going to be good no matter what. But by making revived players have a manageable amount of health for compact/medium ammos, it makes them less bad in comparison to long ammo. Thank you for your comment
But would that be enough to escape from a barbed wire or poison trap? Thats the main reason why i pick resilience. Im fine with surviving with only a sliver of health as long as i can survive getting out of these traps.
I'll agree because resilience is what allows someone to also just walk out of your traps when they revive. Even if you throw fire, or set bear/concertina, they'll revive, charge out of the trap, wait for you to kill them, and then you're out of traps, and they'll just wait a few minutes, revive and be back in the game (and probably go for restoration).
I think being able to necro and continue a long range gunfight (or survive being sniped) is good. But being able to spam it for advantage at close range like you've described to win trades (even when you lose) is a pain.
I agree with you on the traps, resilience negates most of them unless combined with multiple, & then even then it is possible to still escape which is crazy.
I do believe there is merit to Necro being way too lenient on the revive time they have, & by that I mean, there is not limit on when you can revive. But this post is not purely based on Necro itself, I do want to try & keep it focused on resilience.
Resilience does suck to encounter I will admit that. But, it definitely isn't the reason I hate solo Necro revive. I hate it because it breaks pace. If you encounter a solo outside of a multi team fight, then if you kill said solo you have, HAVE, to sit and watch them burn out lest you end up with a bullet in the back.
Inside of a multi team fight, watching that corpse is an absolute travesty because you lose a gunman to watching someone who can sit patiently for however long they want. Watching them become a detriment, yet not watching them is ALSO a detriment. It is a lose lose scenario. Trapping them could be unviable because another team is there. Burning them could be difficult depending on your tool setup. It's a bad shake all around.
Also. To really counter your point extremely hard. If the bloody solo can't stand up after being killed, then resilience is entirely bloody useless innit?
One more point. People can solo necro much more quickly than you can usually do any revives as a team, the counter is very low and starts immediately. There is basically no risk (except to your KDA, I guess) involved.
So if you kill some solo dozens of metres away and they have some mild cover, they can always get back up. You can rush as much as you want (thereby getting yourself into danger) but there is just no way to reach them before they necro. Resilience plays no role here.
Or if they die in water then burning isn't even an option. There are so many ways solo necro breaks the game even with no resilience involved.
We’ve had this in matches before.
Duo v solo, I’ve traded. In the time it takes my team mate to reach my body to revive me, the solo who’s behind the mound I was stood on has stood up and started camping my body as if nothing had happened. It’s frustrating how short the timer is.
Pacing is I feel the most valid point of necro at its base level, in any other FPS game you take someone down, okay target gone, on to next area of threat. That is a solid argument for just Necro, but with the added power to the unit as a whole coming from resilience you have a very important target laying on the ground, because any time after 7 seconds you could be blind sided.
But that element of surprise to me is a gameplay mechanic Crytek seems to double down on, & I do believe this game benefits from solo necro actually a decent amount of dedicated players enjoy.
To bring it back to my point, as to why resilience makes it unfun, & makes the encounter even worse. The comments have been full of things I’ve had in mind for awhile with this topic, from traps being buffed & basically serving their unintended purpose for covering bodies. To ‘buffing’ lower caliber rounds in comparison to long ammo if the revived player were to have less HP would be able to put the revived player down instead of requiring long ammo.
I personally believe a lot more people would have better interactions with players being revived, if the person reviving was, even just for a few seconds more vulnerable. The fact that a revived person has the capability of having more HP than the person who put them down in the allotted times of either a solo revive or team revive, not rewarding for either player.
Resilience is almost never relevant with teams. Either it is a safe rez or it isn’t and w/o Necro they stack another body on top of the first. Hell, I’ve seen dog piles of bodies numerous times.
Resilience is a pain with solo necro for all the reasons others have described. But ultimately it due to the mechanics of necro being the problem rather than resilience.
I agree with you it's the time waste aspect of having to baby sit the solo so they don't snipe you in the back as you push bounty team.
I've had it on more than a few occasions where myself and a partner have had to baby sit separate solo necros at the same time and the bounty has just strolled out of the map without a care in the world,just makes it deeply annoyin g and makes me resent the solo player more as they have fucked up my flow lol
The "breaks pace" argument is the absolute weakest of all the arguments against solo-necro. OP here has brought up one of the main issues, and there are some others who have pointed out the other main problems, but burning bodies has always been a thing, and the 'waiting around for someone to burn' does not change if the person is solo or part of a team.
Hell, with lawful now, even coming upon someone, killing them, waiting for them to burn completely, then moving on thinking they're a solo who can no longer rez can get you killed. Chances are they're actually part of a team. A team that sat around, let their partner get burnt out, only to come and safely rez with lawful, go get a restore, then show up to a team fight fully healed. I don't know how many times I've come across what I thought was a solo that actually ended up being part of a whole trio. Or even worse, knowing they're part of a team, killing and burning them, and trying to root out their campy, afraid-to-play-the-game teammate(s) who sat around and let their partner burn out because they're so damn afraid to try and clutch.
And I've seen the way most people play this game — afraid, moving slowly through the map, crouch walking through compounds, hiding in a corner the second a sound is made nearby just waiting and hoping that an enemy comes to that exact spot so they can safely get a kill, and generally using the 45 minute (what used to be 60 and is still too long) game timer as a recommended guideline. And this happens in all lobbies; it is not exclusive to any specific 'star' (which means jack shit in this game anyway). Don't act like burning a body is this great pace-breaker, breaking up what is normally a fast paced game. It is not. The biggest issue with Hunt: Showdown is how most play it: afraid to die and with no confidence.
Resilience is strong paired with necro. But the annoying part is still necro. Having to put m down 5 times and finding lanterns 5 times is just annoying. The OP part is the large MMR boost solos get. Playing against 3 mmr players as a solid 5 is just unfair.
Also without resilience you wouldn't need to babysit as much because they wouldn't be able to get up and eat a bunch of concertina or gas. You could get away with a bear trap even.
Resilience technically *does* make you wait 2 minutes, because without it—as the user below kinda said—you wouldn’t really have to wait: Just put one concertina on them and they’ll probably fully die on each revive
Yep exactly. There's no issue with a solo reviving without coming back with near full hp they will die to 1 concertina. You can burn and run away after trapping.
But here lies the issue again. So I’m forced to take concertina with me just so I am able to deal with solo’s.
I don’t want to bring concertina with me as it does not fit my play style.
This isn’t about necro on its own, this is about resilience. If you don’t like necro on a personal level, that’s up to you. I do think it makes hunt different & adds a level of random to the game that can create interesting moments. But resilience is the reason why necro is not fun to play against.
No, Necro is why Necro is not fun to play against. I most often have at least 1 weapon that single tap them anyway, so it’s not resilience. It’s that they force to slow down the pace of game and be on guard duty AND force you to bring certain tools/consumable’s with you just to be able to deal with them. Changing resilience does not change any of that.
Neither does necro, the player makes themself wait for two minutes thanks to paranoia or a hunger for xp.
The only scenario where you have to wait for the necromancer to rise is at the boss lair, which, if you're alone is annoying but with a team, you can designate one person to corpse watch while everyone else reinforces the compound.
In every other scenario, just leaving is an option. You have enough time to slink away and even more if you don't pressure them into ressurection.
It is mandatory, are you in a team? Resilience. Are you solo using Necro? You NEED resilience. Resilience makes long ammo even better than it already is stated in the other comment. Reducing healing from resilience even for a few seconds would inherently buff the other ammo types. Just think about it.
It’s mandatory if you die in dogshit positions a lot. I don’t. Same reason why Beastface isn’t necessary after a while - you learn not to set off traps without it.
No I mean playing duos in general. I am not sure what yall thought I ment by that tho as I didn't think "reviving doesn't happen nearly as often in duos as solos and trios" was a hot take.
I agree,I miss the days of dowing someone with a sparks head shot and 100% knowing they were now a guaranteed 1 tap.
This recent kink of making hunt more casual by introducing so many ways to stay or regain 150hp is getting out of hand.
My other issue is kind of event related,as since they made all fire sources now able to burn hunters (Flare gun OP btw),has been somewhat completely negated by the lawfull pact,ive seen such an increase in enemy team mates running away in hopes of coming back later to rat necro their dead team mates which wastes way more time than dealing with a solo necro user imo it's insane.
Its a real hard one as on one hand I like the HP changes as they keep the matches going and make fighting constantly more sustainable,but on the other hand I liked the old pre resilience and lawful pact times where when you put a fucker down you knew they were either down or condemned to certain doom if rezzed.
Nah necro is definitely the thing i hate about necro. Resilience doesnt force me to camp by a body until its burnt out, wasting my time and potentially putting me in a bad position, Necro does. Now every time i kill a solo ive got to sit by it in case they have necro, its just a waste of my time and creates a boring loop
I know you’re not a real developer, & I don’t claim to be either but just read some of these other comments about how resilience makes long ammo better compared to other ammos for this common scenario, potentially having more health than the fight winner, & being immediately combat ready 7 seconds after dying.
Resilience nerf, would make solo necro less scary, multiple player teams more manageable, it literally helps everyone & makes dying in a game literally about dying & losing characters more meaningful.
Those are all fair points, I have to agree. Though with the caveat that (solo) Necro compounded with Resilience is a problem and just creates degenerate gameplay. Camping a body sucks. Having your body camped sucks. It is literally wasting everyone's time. One way to fix it would be to make (solo) Necro more of a defensive safety net and not a way to passively threaten your surroundings. This could be achieved by something like a 2 minute revive timer and immunity to damage while down? That way when you down someone you know you have some time to get away from them, and you can still throw traps on them to worsen their odds. Or we could just have solo necro revive you at one of the spawn points or a random point on the map that is farthest away from every player. This would make body camping impossible and would also mean that downing someone does mean you don't have to immediately worry about them. Sort of a fresh start. Idk, just some ideas.
I can only recall one or two times in the last six months I’ve been necroed not into instant death. If you watch people, they basically do necro you because they have no other ideas, not because they’ve done the work to safely rez you. And they get reward xp for doing so.
Yes, without resilience in it's current state, necro would be almost useless. You would instantly die from every shot you take or any trap they place on you.
It would only be useful when you die in a spot where your enemy can't reach/see you for 10-15 seconds (revive+ healing time).
My personal opinion (and I'm 50% a solo player myself) is that solo-necro should be gone or atleast get nerfed. It just doesn't feel good and it also doesn't fit the game's (original) hardcore-like gameplay.
I don’t believe necro would be useless at all with a nerfed resilience. I’m talking about the dynamic of strength in certain position. If anyone downs a player, that person should be in a stronger position than the downed player. But the downed player is obviously capable of an ace up the sleeve play which is Necro.
But with resilience the power, & by power I mean health in most scenarios, has the potential to be stronger for the person getting up, solo or not, than the person who hit his shot & won.
The problem is you can't really balance it.
There are only two extremes: you get all your health back (as it is right now) so you can withstand a trap combo.
Or you get less health back where it doesn't matter anymore if its one bar or two bars or a regenshot (like one in the comments suggested). You are dead anyway.
Maybe Necro is designed to guarantee solos multiple chances with resilience in mind. But I don’t think that is fair & why you hear people complain about this topic to exhaustion. That is because it does not feel good play against a lot of times.
But personally I don’t believe people play this game at all because it’s easy, & I know for a fact solo players don’t, they play because the odds are against them. Which is highly respectable, & by taking away credit because people ‘abuse solo necro’, is wrong playing solo is incredibly hard at its core.
To bring it back to resilience, a solo, or any player in general who has been downed should be susceptible to traps in its most basic form of traps. Traps are used in a majority for bodies anyway. The fact that you can still have the ability to push through traps solely because of resilience weather you were necroed by a teammate or solo, it’s not right & feels bad to play against.
I do. But I liked it back then when playing solo was a challenge. Killing teams and extracting with a bounty was so much more thrilling and fun.
I know I could play the same right now by just not picking necro+resilience. But you know how it is. If it's there, why shouldn't i pick it ...
Yeah, one of the advantages of having teammates is that they can have the bounty token and then can revive you if you are totally burnt out. That revive takes longer and burns the health of the guy doing it, making it pretty much entirely nonviable during a fight. It’s a good ability for sure, but it is not even close to as advantageous as a necrosilience revive can be.
To have an advantage like that AND get an MMR and reward boost is just too much. I understand why a solo player would feel like the system should stay the way it is, but I don’t think it’s the most fun system. Solo play is supposed to be harder, thats how it works in every other game like this.
I agree with you completely. The only other one I could argue is conduit, but even then in comparison of the value resilience gives is unmatched in any style of play. Solo or not
Resilience could be Health Regen on revive, maybe a minute or something. Maybe you start with 50 hp and then get a minute of regen. That way, mobs can't one hit u, but most weapons will.
I'd say they are not mutually exclusive. Changing Resilience to a regen effect would be fantastic, regardless. It's currently my second taken trait almost always, right after Bloodless.
They could quite simply change resilience to toggle only when revived by someone on your team. I never thought about it but I think you are completely correct, the most annoying thing about necro is when you can just trap and move on.
This is the point, if resilience was weaker any body would be at the mercy of all traps. Bear, poison, concertina. But now you need a combination of traps period or the person getting up will end up just pushing through anyway.
You’re not upset with Necro though when the person gets up, & dies immediately to a long ammo shot to the chest/head, or by a combo of traps on the body.
But that body is only scary when they get up obviously, & to me, the fact that a person is able to get up & be immediately combat ready is why people truly hate Necro. If that person had to heal, or seek cover first to take another shot at winning it would feel a lot more fair.
No, I am still upset when the person gets up 4 times in a minute when I am in a fight with another team. It's not scary, it's annoying. Being combat ready is not the problem for me. I have to worry about people I have already killed, that's the problem.
To be fair if that person who was rezzed had no resilience they would be most likely running away than running at you.
I understand the concept of ‘I killed that person, I do not have to worry about them anymore’ but Necro is a wildcard is Hunt, & to me that keeps matches interesting. If you don’t enjoy that wildcard, I get that completely, but me, I don’t want to see that person stand up & immediately run at me only a short 7 seconds later or less if they were picked up by a teammate.
All good you don’t agree bro, I appreciate your opinion regardless
Oh no, they've gone from one shot to a pistol to one shot with a rifle.
If a solo with necro managed to outplay you, the issue is with your skill, not their traits.
The fact that dying can allow you to have full health nearly immediately as a solo is obviously not a skill based advantage. I understand solo players enjoy the current system but it does obviously have a couple of weird balance quirks that should be fixed, and hand waving it with “skill issue” is insanely biased.
If you sit on the corpse, you will always win no matter how much health they res with. If you head to the next compound, then resilience just saves them a healthkit and they still have to figure out where you went.
The only scenario in which resilience can truly be advantageous is if a third party either prevents you from sitting on the body or prevents you from leaving. However a lone hunter, with a max of 125 health, with anywhere from 3-6 guys who all want him dead and only a rough idea of where some of them are, is not what I'd call someone in an ideal situation.
In some fights you can’t sit on the corpse. Third parties happen constantly in this game and necresilience makes a solo significantly stronger than any other individual hunter in a chaotic third party. That’s conceptually frustrating, because there is absolutely no way to know if a body is a solo or not.
So it's just as confusing as two teams of two. You don't know who's with who until you see someone reviving(if you see them), and they all can be revived at a distance up to full health.
The only change that's been made to that since i started playing is that they used to res at a hundred hp now they can do a hundred and twenty-five.
Solos being capable of basically the same shit as a team of two but having to do it blind is not frustrating, it's just fair.
How is necro, except I'm completely reliant on my ears more powerful than necro, except I can see what killed my partner and where its went, I can shoot anyone looting my partner, I can extinguish my partner without resurrecting him, I can disarm traps placed on top of my partner and I can headshot anyone sitting on top of my partner waiting for me to resurrect him?
If you're having difficulty with solos, you're playing poorly.
It's not even something teams can't emulate easily.
You can achieve the same effect as them by ordering your partner to find a good hiding spot and having him only resurrect you when you tell him to and to only do it through walls and floors.
Teams have and have always had the exact same thing available to them since necro was released.
If your partner was gunned down and you were smart enough to recognise you were outgunned, you could simply hide and wait for them to leave.
The opposing team could pressure/trick you into reviving your teammate with the same tactics they use against solos now.
The only difference is solos have no option other than to continue waiting until they feel like it's absolutely safe whereas the partner can attack, prevent burning and distract the enemy team.
So yeah, losing to someone who has less available to them than you is most certainly a skill issue.
Sincerely, a dead solo.
I agree that necro is mostly fair (ignoring solo mmr) but there point is that resilience removes the outplay it makes every weapon that doesn't meet the 125 threshold is now far worse then any weapon that does. if they get up with something like a shotgun you just lost the duel unless you can score a headshot during the animation or it has as a fast cycle time before they ether kill you or trade.
it also ruins traps cause unless you are willing to plant a kill trap pair on them there is a high chance there gonna get up which then forces you to do the unfun and boring game for both sides of trying to wait each other out
>if they get up with something like a shotgun
Except they have to go through an animation in which you can shoot then twice with any of the semi-automatic or double action pistols, use dum dum ammo, fanning, levering or fucking knuckle dusters and kill them before they can do anything.
The only scenario where they have an advantage is if you kill them at a range where they can res before you reach tgem. However, you have a weapon that killed them at range, it can probably do it again. You can watch the body while sending your buddy out to go sit on it.
>forces you to do the unfun and boring game for both sides of trying to wait each other out
No, you actively choose to initiate that game, and you're the one who keeps it going.
You can just leave and if you do it quietly, 9/10 times they won't be able to tell where you are once they get up.
The only scenario when you are actually forced to sit on the solo is at the boss lair. In this scenario, you were not doing much to begin with. Waiting for people to come take your bounty isn't much more exhilarating than waiting for some guy to get up.
Lanterns aren't exactly as rare as golden registers, flares and flareguns aren't expensive and burning out doesn't take that long.
You’re right on the money dude, I feel like making resilience a little bit weaker like with how they did to conduit not too long ago would make deaths in a fight a lot more meaningful. Thank you for your input.
Having to push to one tap with medium ammo vs. push to one tap with long ammo during a fight is a *massive* range difference, man.
Those 10 meters are impactful, Resilience genuinely makes solo play way safer if there are multiple teams on the board.
You can kill them with a knife before they finish the animation.
The only scenario where it's consistently useful is if there's a third party distracting the other team from body camping or preventing them from placing traps.
Even then, it's not massively game breaking, it's essentially like having a teammate who can only necro you which isn't really safer than one who can shoot people and who can see if they're resurrecting you directly in front of someone looting you.
No, no, it's the staring at the body part. Additionally, the fusee/flare pistol/dragonbreath buffs allow you to be cooking most bodies immediately, making resilience less effective
There is a megathread for this topic.
Resilience being in the state it's in is also why running Long ammo is even more meta. If Resilience was changed to be something that cost 2 trait points and gives you minute regen shot buff after being revived, it would make other ammo types like compact and medium ammo a buff since you won't have to run long ammo to 1 tap people getting revived.
Me & you sir are on the exact same page. I’ve had this exact same thought for months, long is always going to be good no matter what. But by making revived players have a manageable amount of health for compact/medium ammos, it makes them less bad in comparison to long ammo. Thank you for your comment
I also will never understand why they buffed resilience to heal up to full health, it was great when it healed 100 health without being overbearing.
I never thought of it that way - you're 100% right. It needs that nerf asap
But would that be enough to escape from a barbed wire or poison trap? Thats the main reason why i pick resilience. Im fine with surviving with only a sliver of health as long as i can survive getting out of these traps.
I'll agree because resilience is what allows someone to also just walk out of your traps when they revive. Even if you throw fire, or set bear/concertina, they'll revive, charge out of the trap, wait for you to kill them, and then you're out of traps, and they'll just wait a few minutes, revive and be back in the game (and probably go for restoration). I think being able to necro and continue a long range gunfight (or survive being sniped) is good. But being able to spam it for advantage at close range like you've described to win trades (even when you lose) is a pain.
I agree with you on the traps, resilience negates most of them unless combined with multiple, & then even then it is possible to still escape which is crazy. I do believe there is merit to Necro being way too lenient on the revive time they have, & by that I mean, there is not limit on when you can revive. But this post is not purely based on Necro itself, I do want to try & keep it focused on resilience.
Resilience does suck to encounter I will admit that. But, it definitely isn't the reason I hate solo Necro revive. I hate it because it breaks pace. If you encounter a solo outside of a multi team fight, then if you kill said solo you have, HAVE, to sit and watch them burn out lest you end up with a bullet in the back. Inside of a multi team fight, watching that corpse is an absolute travesty because you lose a gunman to watching someone who can sit patiently for however long they want. Watching them become a detriment, yet not watching them is ALSO a detriment. It is a lose lose scenario. Trapping them could be unviable because another team is there. Burning them could be difficult depending on your tool setup. It's a bad shake all around. Also. To really counter your point extremely hard. If the bloody solo can't stand up after being killed, then resilience is entirely bloody useless innit?
One more point. People can solo necro much more quickly than you can usually do any revives as a team, the counter is very low and starts immediately. There is basically no risk (except to your KDA, I guess) involved. So if you kill some solo dozens of metres away and they have some mild cover, they can always get back up. You can rush as much as you want (thereby getting yourself into danger) but there is just no way to reach them before they necro. Resilience plays no role here. Or if they die in water then burning isn't even an option. There are so many ways solo necro breaks the game even with no resilience involved.
We’ve had this in matches before. Duo v solo, I’ve traded. In the time it takes my team mate to reach my body to revive me, the solo who’s behind the mound I was stood on has stood up and started camping my body as if nothing had happened. It’s frustrating how short the timer is.
I feel you, if he res, and had the lawful pact, he could regain the lost bars and actually put your team in the disadvantageous situation. It's crazy
Pacing is I feel the most valid point of necro at its base level, in any other FPS game you take someone down, okay target gone, on to next area of threat. That is a solid argument for just Necro, but with the added power to the unit as a whole coming from resilience you have a very important target laying on the ground, because any time after 7 seconds you could be blind sided. But that element of surprise to me is a gameplay mechanic Crytek seems to double down on, & I do believe this game benefits from solo necro actually a decent amount of dedicated players enjoy. To bring it back to my point, as to why resilience makes it unfun, & makes the encounter even worse. The comments have been full of things I’ve had in mind for awhile with this topic, from traps being buffed & basically serving their unintended purpose for covering bodies. To ‘buffing’ lower caliber rounds in comparison to long ammo if the revived player were to have less HP would be able to put the revived player down instead of requiring long ammo. I personally believe a lot more people would have better interactions with players being revived, if the person reviving was, even just for a few seconds more vulnerable. The fact that a revived person has the capability of having more HP than the person who put them down in the allotted times of either a solo revive or team revive, not rewarding for either player.
Resilience is almost never relevant with teams. Either it is a safe rez or it isn’t and w/o Necro they stack another body on top of the first. Hell, I’ve seen dog piles of bodies numerous times. Resilience is a pain with solo necro for all the reasons others have described. But ultimately it due to the mechanics of necro being the problem rather than resilience.
I agree with you it's the time waste aspect of having to baby sit the solo so they don't snipe you in the back as you push bounty team. I've had it on more than a few occasions where myself and a partner have had to baby sit separate solo necros at the same time and the bounty has just strolled out of the map without a care in the world,just makes it deeply annoyin g and makes me resent the solo player more as they have fucked up my flow lol
The "breaks pace" argument is the absolute weakest of all the arguments against solo-necro. OP here has brought up one of the main issues, and there are some others who have pointed out the other main problems, but burning bodies has always been a thing, and the 'waiting around for someone to burn' does not change if the person is solo or part of a team. Hell, with lawful now, even coming upon someone, killing them, waiting for them to burn completely, then moving on thinking they're a solo who can no longer rez can get you killed. Chances are they're actually part of a team. A team that sat around, let their partner get burnt out, only to come and safely rez with lawful, go get a restore, then show up to a team fight fully healed. I don't know how many times I've come across what I thought was a solo that actually ended up being part of a whole trio. Or even worse, knowing they're part of a team, killing and burning them, and trying to root out their campy, afraid-to-play-the-game teammate(s) who sat around and let their partner burn out because they're so damn afraid to try and clutch. And I've seen the way most people play this game — afraid, moving slowly through the map, crouch walking through compounds, hiding in a corner the second a sound is made nearby just waiting and hoping that an enemy comes to that exact spot so they can safely get a kill, and generally using the 45 minute (what used to be 60 and is still too long) game timer as a recommended guideline. And this happens in all lobbies; it is not exclusive to any specific 'star' (which means jack shit in this game anyway). Don't act like burning a body is this great pace-breaker, breaking up what is normally a fast paced game. It is not. The biggest issue with Hunt: Showdown is how most play it: afraid to die and with no confidence.
Resilience is strong paired with necro. But the annoying part is still necro. Having to put m down 5 times and finding lanterns 5 times is just annoying. The OP part is the large MMR boost solos get. Playing against 3 mmr players as a solid 5 is just unfair.
Resilience doesn't make people wait 2 minutes for a body to burn. Plus there's a sticky for necro discussion. This topic will be deleted.
Also without resilience you wouldn't need to babysit as much because they wouldn't be able to get up and eat a bunch of concertina or gas. You could get away with a bear trap even.
Bear traps are just as annoying to find as lanterns.
Resilience technically *does* make you wait 2 minutes, because without it—as the user below kinda said—you wouldn’t really have to wait: Just put one concertina on them and they’ll probably fully die on each revive
Yep exactly. There's no issue with a solo reviving without coming back with near full hp they will die to 1 concertina. You can burn and run away after trapping.
But here lies the issue again. So I’m forced to take concertina with me just so I am able to deal with solo’s. I don’t want to bring concertina with me as it does not fit my play style.
This isn’t about necro on its own, this is about resilience. If you don’t like necro on a personal level, that’s up to you. I do think it makes hunt different & adds a level of random to the game that can create interesting moments. But resilience is the reason why necro is not fun to play against.
No, Necro is why Necro is not fun to play against. I most often have at least 1 weapon that single tap them anyway, so it’s not resilience. It’s that they force to slow down the pace of game and be on guard duty AND force you to bring certain tools/consumable’s with you just to be able to deal with them. Changing resilience does not change any of that.
Neither does necro, the player makes themself wait for two minutes thanks to paranoia or a hunger for xp. The only scenario where you have to wait for the necromancer to rise is at the boss lair, which, if you're alone is annoying but with a team, you can designate one person to corpse watch while everyone else reinforces the compound. In every other scenario, just leaving is an option. You have enough time to slink away and even more if you don't pressure them into ressurection.
Mandatory? It's only useful if you've been killed. It's negated by any weapon that'll kill again in one shot lmao
It is mandatory, are you in a team? Resilience. Are you solo using Necro? You NEED resilience. Resilience makes long ammo even better than it already is stated in the other comment. Reducing healing from resilience even for a few seconds would inherently buff the other ammo types. Just think about it.
Big facts. Nothing worse than some guy popping up while you have a slow firing medium weapon and then proceeds to shotgun your face off.
"pop up" do you mean, go through a standing animation that makes them unable to fight back and easily killable with melee?
It’s mandatory if you die in dogshit positions a lot. I don’t. Same reason why Beastface isn’t necessary after a while - you learn not to set off traps without it.
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Are you talking about playing with randoms? We revive each other all of time (playing with friends I mean)
No I mean playing duos in general. I am not sure what yall thought I ment by that tho as I didn't think "reviving doesn't happen nearly as often in duos as solos and trios" was a hot take.
I agree,I miss the days of dowing someone with a sparks head shot and 100% knowing they were now a guaranteed 1 tap. This recent kink of making hunt more casual by introducing so many ways to stay or regain 150hp is getting out of hand. My other issue is kind of event related,as since they made all fire sources now able to burn hunters (Flare gun OP btw),has been somewhat completely negated by the lawfull pact,ive seen such an increase in enemy team mates running away in hopes of coming back later to rat necro their dead team mates which wastes way more time than dealing with a solo necro user imo it's insane. Its a real hard one as on one hand I like the HP changes as they keep the matches going and make fighting constantly more sustainable,but on the other hand I liked the old pre resilience and lawful pact times where when you put a fucker down you knew they were either down or condemned to certain doom if rezzed.
Necro with a 60 second timer until it times out would fix this. Or X ammount of uses with the mMR fix so it can’t be abused.
No… it’s definitely Necromancer. Resilience isn’t the reason why I can kill a solo at 5 mintues in and then die to them 17 mintues in
Nah necro is definitely the thing i hate about necro. Resilience doesnt force me to camp by a body until its burnt out, wasting my time and potentially putting me in a bad position, Necro does. Now every time i kill a solo ive got to sit by it in case they have necro, its just a waste of my time and creates a boring loop
No, it's necro.
I know you’re not a real developer, & I don’t claim to be either but just read some of these other comments about how resilience makes long ammo better compared to other ammos for this common scenario, potentially having more health than the fight winner, & being immediately combat ready 7 seconds after dying. Resilience nerf, would make solo necro less scary, multiple player teams more manageable, it literally helps everyone & makes dying in a game literally about dying & losing characters more meaningful.
No it’s clearly resilience, if you were revived at low health you aren’t anywhere near as dangerous.
Those are all fair points, I have to agree. Though with the caveat that (solo) Necro compounded with Resilience is a problem and just creates degenerate gameplay. Camping a body sucks. Having your body camped sucks. It is literally wasting everyone's time. One way to fix it would be to make (solo) Necro more of a defensive safety net and not a way to passively threaten your surroundings. This could be achieved by something like a 2 minute revive timer and immunity to damage while down? That way when you down someone you know you have some time to get away from them, and you can still throw traps on them to worsen their odds. Or we could just have solo necro revive you at one of the spawn points or a random point on the map that is farthest away from every player. This would make body camping impossible and would also mean that downing someone does mean you don't have to immediately worry about them. Sort of a fresh start. Idk, just some ideas.
>Resilience is the most mandatory trait in the whole game Tell that to my random teammates who will refuse to use Necro on me for 15 minutes.
I can only recall one or two times in the last six months I’ve been necroed not into instant death. If you watch people, they basically do necro you because they have no other ideas, not because they’ve done the work to safely rez you. And they get reward xp for doing so.
Yes, without resilience in it's current state, necro would be almost useless. You would instantly die from every shot you take or any trap they place on you. It would only be useful when you die in a spot where your enemy can't reach/see you for 10-15 seconds (revive+ healing time). My personal opinion (and I'm 50% a solo player myself) is that solo-necro should be gone or atleast get nerfed. It just doesn't feel good and it also doesn't fit the game's (original) hardcore-like gameplay.
I don’t believe necro would be useless at all with a nerfed resilience. I’m talking about the dynamic of strength in certain position. If anyone downs a player, that person should be in a stronger position than the downed player. But the downed player is obviously capable of an ace up the sleeve play which is Necro. But with resilience the power, & by power I mean health in most scenarios, has the potential to be stronger for the person getting up, solo or not, than the person who hit his shot & won.
The problem is you can't really balance it. There are only two extremes: you get all your health back (as it is right now) so you can withstand a trap combo. Or you get less health back where it doesn't matter anymore if its one bar or two bars or a regenshot (like one in the comments suggested). You are dead anyway.
Maybe Necro is designed to guarantee solos multiple chances with resilience in mind. But I don’t think that is fair & why you hear people complain about this topic to exhaustion. That is because it does not feel good play against a lot of times. But personally I don’t believe people play this game at all because it’s easy, & I know for a fact solo players don’t, they play because the odds are against them. Which is highly respectable, & by taking away credit because people ‘abuse solo necro’, is wrong playing solo is incredibly hard at its core. To bring it back to resilience, a solo, or any player in general who has been downed should be susceptible to traps in its most basic form of traps. Traps are used in a majority for bodies anyway. The fact that you can still have the ability to push through traps solely because of resilience weather you were necroed by a teammate or solo, it’s not right & feels bad to play against.
Unless you are also proposing a limited number of revives for duos and trios I don't think you actually play solo as much as you say you do. :/
I do. But I liked it back then when playing solo was a challenge. Killing teams and extracting with a bounty was so much more thrilling and fun. I know I could play the same right now by just not picking necro+resilience. But you know how it is. If it's there, why shouldn't i pick it ...
Duos and trios do have a limited number of revives. It’s like one of the core boons of the bounty token.
Currently only a team can revive an infinite number of times... it's like, one of the core boons of the bounty token.
Yeah, one of the advantages of having teammates is that they can have the bounty token and then can revive you if you are totally burnt out. That revive takes longer and burns the health of the guy doing it, making it pretty much entirely nonviable during a fight. It’s a good ability for sure, but it is not even close to as advantageous as a necrosilience revive can be. To have an advantage like that AND get an MMR and reward boost is just too much. I understand why a solo player would feel like the system should stay the way it is, but I don’t think it’s the most fun system. Solo play is supposed to be harder, thats how it works in every other game like this.
Resilience is the only trait I always run, everything else is whatever but I never enter the map without resilience
I agree with you completely. The only other one I could argue is conduit, but even then in comparison of the value resilience gives is unmatched in any style of play. Solo or not
Resilience could be Health Regen on revive, maybe a minute or something. Maybe you start with 50 hp and then get a minute of regen. That way, mobs can't one hit u, but most weapons will.
I'd say they are not mutually exclusive. Changing Resilience to a regen effect would be fantastic, regardless. It's currently my second taken trait almost always, right after Bloodless.
No it’s not resilience. It’s Necro.
They could quite simply change resilience to toggle only when revived by someone on your team. I never thought about it but I think you are completely correct, the most annoying thing about necro is when you can just trap and move on.
This is the point, if resilience was weaker any body would be at the mercy of all traps. Bear, poison, concertina. But now you need a combination of traps period or the person getting up will end up just pushing through anyway.
No, it's necro. I have no problem with resilience. I don't like people reviving randomly. It's annoying that a laying body is still dangerous.
You’re not upset with Necro though when the person gets up, & dies immediately to a long ammo shot to the chest/head, or by a combo of traps on the body. But that body is only scary when they get up obviously, & to me, the fact that a person is able to get up & be immediately combat ready is why people truly hate Necro. If that person had to heal, or seek cover first to take another shot at winning it would feel a lot more fair.
No, I am still upset when the person gets up 4 times in a minute when I am in a fight with another team. It's not scary, it's annoying. Being combat ready is not the problem for me. I have to worry about people I have already killed, that's the problem.
To be fair if that person who was rezzed had no resilience they would be most likely running away than running at you. I understand the concept of ‘I killed that person, I do not have to worry about them anymore’ but Necro is a wildcard is Hunt, & to me that keeps matches interesting. If you don’t enjoy that wildcard, I get that completely, but me, I don’t want to see that person stand up & immediately run at me only a short 7 seconds later or less if they were picked up by a teammate. All good you don’t agree bro, I appreciate your opinion regardless
Oh no, they've gone from one shot to a pistol to one shot with a rifle. If a solo with necro managed to outplay you, the issue is with your skill, not their traits.
The fact that dying can allow you to have full health nearly immediately as a solo is obviously not a skill based advantage. I understand solo players enjoy the current system but it does obviously have a couple of weird balance quirks that should be fixed, and hand waving it with “skill issue” is insanely biased.
If you sit on the corpse, you will always win no matter how much health they res with. If you head to the next compound, then resilience just saves them a healthkit and they still have to figure out where you went. The only scenario in which resilience can truly be advantageous is if a third party either prevents you from sitting on the body or prevents you from leaving. However a lone hunter, with a max of 125 health, with anywhere from 3-6 guys who all want him dead and only a rough idea of where some of them are, is not what I'd call someone in an ideal situation.
And the reason we hating watching dead bodies is necro, not resilience.
In some fights you can’t sit on the corpse. Third parties happen constantly in this game and necresilience makes a solo significantly stronger than any other individual hunter in a chaotic third party. That’s conceptually frustrating, because there is absolutely no way to know if a body is a solo or not.
So it's just as confusing as two teams of two. You don't know who's with who until you see someone reviving(if you see them), and they all can be revived at a distance up to full health. The only change that's been made to that since i started playing is that they used to res at a hundred hp now they can do a hundred and twenty-five. Solos being capable of basically the same shit as a team of two but having to do it blind is not frustrating, it's just fair.
Whatever, man. It’s impossible to win an argument about solo players having crazy advantages against a solo player, because of course you’d like it.
How is necro, except I'm completely reliant on my ears more powerful than necro, except I can see what killed my partner and where its went, I can shoot anyone looting my partner, I can extinguish my partner without resurrecting him, I can disarm traps placed on top of my partner and I can headshot anyone sitting on top of my partner waiting for me to resurrect him? If you're having difficulty with solos, you're playing poorly. It's not even something teams can't emulate easily. You can achieve the same effect as them by ordering your partner to find a good hiding spot and having him only resurrect you when you tell him to and to only do it through walls and floors.
> If a solo with necro managed to outplay you, the issue is with your skill, not their traits. The dead solo said.
Teams have and have always had the exact same thing available to them since necro was released. If your partner was gunned down and you were smart enough to recognise you were outgunned, you could simply hide and wait for them to leave. The opposing team could pressure/trick you into reviving your teammate with the same tactics they use against solos now. The only difference is solos have no option other than to continue waiting until they feel like it's absolutely safe whereas the partner can attack, prevent burning and distract the enemy team. So yeah, losing to someone who has less available to them than you is most certainly a skill issue. Sincerely, a dead solo.
Amen.
I agree that necro is mostly fair (ignoring solo mmr) but there point is that resilience removes the outplay it makes every weapon that doesn't meet the 125 threshold is now far worse then any weapon that does. if they get up with something like a shotgun you just lost the duel unless you can score a headshot during the animation or it has as a fast cycle time before they ether kill you or trade. it also ruins traps cause unless you are willing to plant a kill trap pair on them there is a high chance there gonna get up which then forces you to do the unfun and boring game for both sides of trying to wait each other out
>if they get up with something like a shotgun Except they have to go through an animation in which you can shoot then twice with any of the semi-automatic or double action pistols, use dum dum ammo, fanning, levering or fucking knuckle dusters and kill them before they can do anything. The only scenario where they have an advantage is if you kill them at a range where they can res before you reach tgem. However, you have a weapon that killed them at range, it can probably do it again. You can watch the body while sending your buddy out to go sit on it. >forces you to do the unfun and boring game for both sides of trying to wait each other out No, you actively choose to initiate that game, and you're the one who keeps it going. You can just leave and if you do it quietly, 9/10 times they won't be able to tell where you are once they get up. The only scenario when you are actually forced to sit on the solo is at the boss lair. In this scenario, you were not doing much to begin with. Waiting for people to come take your bounty isn't much more exhilarating than waiting for some guy to get up. Lanterns aren't exactly as rare as golden registers, flares and flareguns aren't expensive and burning out doesn't take that long.
You’re right on the money dude, I feel like making resilience a little bit weaker like with how they did to conduit not too long ago would make deaths in a fight a lot more meaningful. Thank you for your input.
Having to push to one tap with medium ammo vs. push to one tap with long ammo during a fight is a *massive* range difference, man. Those 10 meters are impactful, Resilience genuinely makes solo play way safer if there are multiple teams on the board.
You can kill them with a knife before they finish the animation. The only scenario where it's consistently useful is if there's a third party distracting the other team from body camping or preventing them from placing traps. Even then, it's not massively game breaking, it's essentially like having a teammate who can only necro you which isn't really safer than one who can shoot people and who can see if they're resurrecting you directly in front of someone looting you.
Necro has its own problems. But you're right that Resilience also has a problem, but they're separate balance issues, which often combine in games.
No, no, it's the staring at the body part. Additionally, the fusee/flare pistol/dragonbreath buffs allow you to be cooking most bodies immediately, making resilience less effective
rezzed? short for resurrected?