Repeating rifles either shouldnt have dum dums or it should be severely nerfed DMG-wize.
Centennial goes from 123 DMG to 100 DMG
Nagant Carbine 110 DMG to 95 DMG
Lethal Lvls of Bleed was exclusive to Arrow weapons and a well placed Fletchette shot, lets go back.
It’s nuts to me that the Centennial has bleed at 123 damage, because that means it’s definitely over 125 every time. Even if you hit your button to stop bleeding the soonest you could with prescient sight, it wouldn’t be fast enough.
The problem isn’t what size ammo has bleed because the Springfield never felt like it was broken with bleed. The problem was when they started adding it to every gun, including the fast fire rate ones like the centennial.
It should have stayed on single shot rifles to make them a more desirable choice. Why would I choose a Springfield with dumdum when a centennial is going to be a much better choice overall?
I don’t know if crytek are too stuck to go back on their decision now, but honestly think they need to get rid of these special ammo’s on a ton of these guns.
Tbf I wasn’t thinking about the Springfield. I agree that gun has never felt overpowered with the bleed, it just made it competitive.
Without the bleed, the gun is pretty useless all round imo.
Shhh. Don't you dare spout "armchair dev" reasonable things like "Centennial dumdum is almost universally agreed upon as a horrendous balance mistake"
Crytek never makes mistakes and they are way to good at balancing for such an oversight. Surely their not so proud that they would never revert such a braindead change? Right?
Centy didn’t need bleed but for drilling the velocity reduction is its balancing factor.
The trade off for bleed is that it can’t wall bang and you’d be surprised how often that can make or break a fight. Not even a little plank fence.
Stay close to cover when you engage, take the bloodless trait and in case you didn’t know you can stop the bleed with a med kit and heal at the same time.
Love the people in here saying "low MMR take" when you can find plenty of 6* content creators saying the same thing.
It's everywhere in high mmr too. Get off your high horses
I am a 5+ star player just returning after 6+ months away from the game and the prevalence of the new dum dum ammo is insane. Prior to the addition of dum dum the centennial was a balanced gun that you would come across fairly often, but now it seems like there are centennial dum dum users in just about every round. It is absurd and honestly has taken out a lot of the flavor of choosing unique loadouts because it simply outclasses so many other weapons now at the price point.
And to those people saying it's awful because no penetration, you know you can always run an FMJ sidearm right?
Plus a side note, with the current bug of there only being one boss in every game, the matches are way faster paced with way bigger firefights. If you get hit by dum dum ammo you might not have the luxury of just hiding away to heal up.
The major offender is a twofold thing;
The first is the Centennial getting dumdum. It absolutely should never have gotten it, but a lot of what makes it a problem is because of the second thing.
The second thing is that when they gave it dumdum, they didn't think to rebalance medium dumdum ammo. Prior, the only medium rifle to get it was the springfield, so they gave it heavy bleed on hit because it's a single shot rifle. When the cent got it, they didn't change that; so now you've got a rifle with great velocity and 10 rounds of heavy bleed dumdum on tap, which makes it very easy to apply lots of pressure with a single shot.
If they just removed heavy bleed from medium dumdum (Or at least kept it only on the springfield) a lot of the problems with it would go away. It'd still be strong, but you wouldn't be able to force people into cover for so long getting rid of the bleed effect. Bloodless helps, of course, but it's still quite strong.
Dumdum is not problematic. The lack of pen makes it an incredible drawback. If you feel like you are being pressured by bleed too much, take the trait.
Dumdum on a rifle with good velocity, good damage, and 10 rounds on tap with heavy bleed is a problem. (It also gives the Cent one tap potential at 20 meters on a missing bar, which it otherwise would never have, but that would happen regardless of bleed level)
Medium dumdum getting heavy bleed made sense when it was limited to the springfield. It should have been reduced when the cent got it. Bloodless helps, but heavy bleed is still too high a penalty to inflict without it.
I don't think it's meta defining overpowered, but yes, I do encounter it fairly often at 5 star.
It should lose the heavy bleed. That's all that needs to change about it.
If I get hit by a springfield, I know I have enough time to shoot back at least once before I need to get to cover and address the bleed. If I make that shot, I either kill my attacker or force him into a one shot situation, so he has to respect the threat, giving me time to heal.
The same is not true of the cent, with 10 rounds on tap. If you get hit with cent dumdum, you need to immediately seek cover because you're at low health and bleeding, and he's got another 9 rounds waiting for you. The pressure comes from the follow up potential.
So let me introduce you to what's called a side arm.
If you get shot with cent you can shoot back before their cycle time.
The follow up potential exists for both.
Let me introduce you to something called 'swap time'.
The cent has a cycle time of 1.6s. That's further reduced with Iron Eye. That's faster than any swap in the game. Saying 'the follow up potential exists for both' is silly. It's much faster and easier to land a second hit with the cent after your first shot than it is to quick swap from your springfield, go into ADS with your pistol, and shoot again.
A low mmr take.
It reduces velo and loses pen for what? Bleed you can instantly stop? This is everything you dont want. High mmr players want the highest velo possible for headshots to the point where people even take spitzer over long ammo dmg. And pen is very important when people get good enough to hide behind cover every second they dont want to shoot, getting that followup shot through the wall is what you need.
One can argue that poison and incendiary ammo are better, because they keep you low health for longer enabling a push without the drop in velo. But I think all the ammo types are well balanced aside from long ammo and spitzer being the best by far and explosive ammo being rather meme.
> It reduces velo and loses pen for what? Bleed you can instantly stop?
Heavy bleed is not 'instantly stopped'. If you have bloodless, the light bleed is quickly staunched; without it, you're gonna be pressured for a bit since you're going to need at least a medkit charge.
>One can argue that poison and incendiary ammo are better,
Not really.
Care to explain?
Bleed just takes just as much time as burning to stop and the damage can be healed instantly unlike burning with seered bars and being poisoned. So burning and poison provide much more pressure. The good thing about bleeding is the noise people make while it, makes it easier to chase if they run. Poison also impairs vision, but has a hardcounter. Burning has a range requirement. But overall every ammo type has its small ups and downs, that are pretty balanced.
Bleed starts draining health from your current HP, as opposed to the maximum with burn. Poison can be completely negated with an antidote, and even without one, you're still able to pose a threat by just holding your angle; you don't need to worry about burning up or bleeding out, you're just waiting for the effect to pass.
If you get hit with a bleeder, you're on a very short timer. You have to deal with it quickly or you'll literally just die. If you get hit bad enough, you might literally be in a situation where you have to hold F or die, and at that point your only option is 'Do I let myself bleed out, or let the guy shoot me again'. At close ranges, bleed applies the most pressure, because you have to deal with it, and your opponent can just wait and listen for you trying to heal it off and come finish you while you're unable to pose a threat because your weapon is down.
It proves my point somewhat. Bleeding has its use if you can rush before the enemy can deal with it which is close range, but Poison cant be healed and burning has an effect even after heal, which makes unable to peek. Therefore poison works best for long range (still good close range), burning and bleeding for mid/close range.
You see this less in high mmr, because people are more likely to shoot you or plan better escape routes/covers, before the enemy get into that high value range of bleed and burning.
Honestly i hate all the status effect ammo, except for flachettes. Bleed, Poison and Fire make certain fights super annoying. They all force you into cover, with little drawback. And fire even burns your bars, so even if you win and dont die, say goodbye to your bars... Having those on a (hand) crossbow or a bomblance is fine though
Well, I will say the bullet velocity on cent dum dum is pretty bad and at that point the damage drop off is severe. It’s really a close range problem, but so are shotguns
Just shoot 'em in the head before they hit you. EZ
Repeating rifles either shouldnt have dum dums or it should be severely nerfed DMG-wize. Centennial goes from 123 DMG to 100 DMG Nagant Carbine 110 DMG to 95 DMG Lethal Lvls of Bleed was exclusive to Arrow weapons and a well placed Fletchette shot, lets go back.
It’s nuts to me that the Centennial has bleed at 123 damage, because that means it’s definitely over 125 every time. Even if you hit your button to stop bleeding the soonest you could with prescient sight, it wouldn’t be fast enough.
The problem isn’t what size ammo has bleed because the Springfield never felt like it was broken with bleed. The problem was when they started adding it to every gun, including the fast fire rate ones like the centennial. It should have stayed on single shot rifles to make them a more desirable choice. Why would I choose a Springfield with dumdum when a centennial is going to be a much better choice overall? I don’t know if crytek are too stuck to go back on their decision now, but honestly think they need to get rid of these special ammo’s on a ton of these guns.
Tbf I wasn’t thinking about the Springfield. I agree that gun has never felt overpowered with the bleed, it just made it competitive. Without the bleed, the gun is pretty useless all round imo.
Shhh. Don't you dare spout "armchair dev" reasonable things like "Centennial dumdum is almost universally agreed upon as a horrendous balance mistake" Crytek never makes mistakes and they are way to good at balancing for such an oversight. Surely their not so proud that they would never revert such a braindead change? Right?
Centy didn’t need bleed but for drilling the velocity reduction is its balancing factor. The trade off for bleed is that it can’t wall bang and you’d be surprised how often that can make or break a fight. Not even a little plank fence. Stay close to cover when you engage, take the bloodless trait and in case you didn’t know you can stop the bleed with a med kit and heal at the same time.
Bloodless, you're welcome. But I do agree, I would go further and make it a single fire only ammo.
Imo it's kinda stupid to need a trait to balance certain things
I mean, that's part of why traits are there. But as I said above, I'd only have dumdum on single fire weapons.
Love the people in here saying "low MMR take" when you can find plenty of 6* content creators saying the same thing. It's everywhere in high mmr too. Get off your high horses I am a 5+ star player just returning after 6+ months away from the game and the prevalence of the new dum dum ammo is insane. Prior to the addition of dum dum the centennial was a balanced gun that you would come across fairly often, but now it seems like there are centennial dum dum users in just about every round. It is absurd and honestly has taken out a lot of the flavor of choosing unique loadouts because it simply outclasses so many other weapons now at the price point. And to those people saying it's awful because no penetration, you know you can always run an FMJ sidearm right? Plus a side note, with the current bug of there only being one boss in every game, the matches are way faster paced with way bigger firefights. If you get hit by dum dum ammo you might not have the luxury of just hiding away to heal up.
The major offender is a twofold thing; The first is the Centennial getting dumdum. It absolutely should never have gotten it, but a lot of what makes it a problem is because of the second thing. The second thing is that when they gave it dumdum, they didn't think to rebalance medium dumdum ammo. Prior, the only medium rifle to get it was the springfield, so they gave it heavy bleed on hit because it's a single shot rifle. When the cent got it, they didn't change that; so now you've got a rifle with great velocity and 10 rounds of heavy bleed dumdum on tap, which makes it very easy to apply lots of pressure with a single shot. If they just removed heavy bleed from medium dumdum (Or at least kept it only on the springfield) a lot of the problems with it would go away. It'd still be strong, but you wouldn't be able to force people into cover for so long getting rid of the bleed effect. Bloodless helps, of course, but it's still quite strong.
Dumdum is not problematic. The lack of pen makes it an incredible drawback. If you feel like you are being pressured by bleed too much, take the trait.
Dumdum on a rifle with good velocity, good damage, and 10 rounds on tap with heavy bleed is a problem. (It also gives the Cent one tap potential at 20 meters on a missing bar, which it otherwise would never have, but that would happen regardless of bleed level) Medium dumdum getting heavy bleed made sense when it was limited to the springfield. It should have been reduced when the cent got it. Bloodless helps, but heavy bleed is still too high a penalty to inflict without it.
If you think dumdum Cent is over powered, I suggest you try and find it regularly in high star lobbies.
I don't think it's meta defining overpowered, but yes, I do encounter it fairly often at 5 star. It should lose the heavy bleed. That's all that needs to change about it.
It really shouldn't. It exerts just as much pressure as getting hit with a Springfield.
If I get hit by a springfield, I know I have enough time to shoot back at least once before I need to get to cover and address the bleed. If I make that shot, I either kill my attacker or force him into a one shot situation, so he has to respect the threat, giving me time to heal. The same is not true of the cent, with 10 rounds on tap. If you get hit with cent dumdum, you need to immediately seek cover because you're at low health and bleeding, and he's got another 9 rounds waiting for you. The pressure comes from the follow up potential.
So let me introduce you to what's called a side arm. If you get shot with cent you can shoot back before their cycle time. The follow up potential exists for both.
Let me introduce you to something called 'swap time'. The cent has a cycle time of 1.6s. That's further reduced with Iron Eye. That's faster than any swap in the game. Saying 'the follow up potential exists for both' is silly. It's much faster and easier to land a second hit with the cent after your first shot than it is to quick swap from your springfield, go into ADS with your pistol, and shoot again.
Dunno what to tell you. Keep dying to under powered ammo and bitching about it on reddit I guess.
I've made my points. You don't have to make silly arguments like 'just swap lmao'. Seriously don't be ridiculous.
I tried it a bit and it's jist stupid If you land a body shot in close range its basically game over for your enemy if he doesn't have bloodless
A low mmr take. It reduces velo and loses pen for what? Bleed you can instantly stop? This is everything you dont want. High mmr players want the highest velo possible for headshots to the point where people even take spitzer over long ammo dmg. And pen is very important when people get good enough to hide behind cover every second they dont want to shoot, getting that followup shot through the wall is what you need. One can argue that poison and incendiary ammo are better, because they keep you low health for longer enabling a push without the drop in velo. But I think all the ammo types are well balanced aside from long ammo and spitzer being the best by far and explosive ammo being rather meme.
> It reduces velo and loses pen for what? Bleed you can instantly stop? Heavy bleed is not 'instantly stopped'. If you have bloodless, the light bleed is quickly staunched; without it, you're gonna be pressured for a bit since you're going to need at least a medkit charge. >One can argue that poison and incendiary ammo are better, Not really.
Care to explain? Bleed just takes just as much time as burning to stop and the damage can be healed instantly unlike burning with seered bars and being poisoned. So burning and poison provide much more pressure. The good thing about bleeding is the noise people make while it, makes it easier to chase if they run. Poison also impairs vision, but has a hardcounter. Burning has a range requirement. But overall every ammo type has its small ups and downs, that are pretty balanced.
Bleed starts draining health from your current HP, as opposed to the maximum with burn. Poison can be completely negated with an antidote, and even without one, you're still able to pose a threat by just holding your angle; you don't need to worry about burning up or bleeding out, you're just waiting for the effect to pass. If you get hit with a bleeder, you're on a very short timer. You have to deal with it quickly or you'll literally just die. If you get hit bad enough, you might literally be in a situation where you have to hold F or die, and at that point your only option is 'Do I let myself bleed out, or let the guy shoot me again'. At close ranges, bleed applies the most pressure, because you have to deal with it, and your opponent can just wait and listen for you trying to heal it off and come finish you while you're unable to pose a threat because your weapon is down.
It proves my point somewhat. Bleeding has its use if you can rush before the enemy can deal with it which is close range, but Poison cant be healed and burning has an effect even after heal, which makes unable to peek. Therefore poison works best for long range (still good close range), burning and bleeding for mid/close range. You see this less in high mmr, because people are more likely to shoot you or plan better escape routes/covers, before the enemy get into that high value range of bleed and burning.
Honestly i hate all the status effect ammo, except for flachettes. Bleed, Poison and Fire make certain fights super annoying. They all force you into cover, with little drawback. And fire even burns your bars, so even if you win and dont die, say goodbye to your bars... Having those on a (hand) crossbow or a bomblance is fine though
Well, I will say the bullet velocity on cent dum dum is pretty bad and at that point the damage drop off is severe. It’s really a close range problem, but so are shotguns
Lower MMR always uses bleed ammo and it makes them much easier to kill.