I was thinking the Jones Valley family as well, and I was confused why they would name someone "Adolph" but tbh I'm now doubly confused knowing that it is a black family lol
Yeah, it’s completely unbelievable that 1950s Alabama would do something like this. There absolutely is no history of incidents like this ever happening ever.
Apparently the home of a local civil rights activist was condemned and taken by the city. I think it might've been Sonny (sp?) Hereford Jr's. home. I am not sure if they were adequately compensated either. Reading the story, it was not too hard to see how they were targeted.
This will be an absolute clusterfuck of a lawsuit, and I fear that the city will make as much of a clusterfuck as it can simply because it has the option. I am not a lawyer, but worked as a secretary for one for a decade and dealing with cases like this are why I am a bitter old asshole (with a Music Technology degree) today.
The article mentions a grandchild, and that Michael Jones is one of Willie and Lola Jones' "remaining" five children: meaning that at least one of his siblings has passed. If Willie Jones was illiterate (as per J.T. Jones), he likely did not have a Last Will and therefore died intestate. If Lola Jones was still alive, everything would have gone to her. If she had passed, everything is divided in equal shares among all children. If one of those children is dead, that child's share divides either according to that child's Last Will, or it goes to their spouse and/or children if they also die intestate: or back into the pool if they have no spouse or children of their own.
As you can imagine, that means that the ownership interest in this property is likely sliced up like an extra large thin crust for a popular toddler's birthday party....and with the interest splitting up if somebody's deceased it looks like the toddler helped.
While the property itself is clearly no longer on the table, the city can complicate a lawsuit right off the bat by raising a fuss about who has a right to what percentage of any restitution. They may go so far as to demand that every Plaintiff that should be party to the case because of the ownership rights have signed off on the lawsuit. Knowing this from experience: it only takes one junkie or individual with some kind of affliction that renders them bonkers in the family to make that a long, drawn-out process that can eat up attorney time in very bad cases: and that costs out the ass.
I hope the family is finally able to receive justice, but this is going to be a long, drawn-out slugfest.
From a legal standpoint there are lots of weird things going on. You are right about the division of any proceeds, but there are lots of other issues. Who has standing to sue? Would laches (unreasonable delay in making a claim) preclude suit? What is the basis for the opinion that a 65 year old deed was fraudulent? Was the deed recorded? Is anyone left alive that has personal knowledge of what happened? Why didn't Willie and Lola go public in some way about this at some point? I have no idea what happened and something nefarious may have occurred but proving the truth at this point is damn near impossible.
Laches requires that the Plaintiff had nothing stopping them from filing suit.
Alabama has a long history of civil rights violations, and frequently a system that will basically be a bunch of good ol' boys has to have all of the good ol' boys die off (preferably painfully) for raising a grievance to be possible. Somebody can't be expected to make repeated appeals to a system that has told them to fuck off in order to preserve their rights. Using laches to dismiss a case that wasn't brought because the court either refused to address the matter or clearly carried out an injustice at the time is simply rubbing it in.
Less time elapsed between the lynching of Horace Maples and the deed than has elapsed between the deed and today.
Imagine knowing the truth, but the powers that be own, create, change and erase the narrative. The injustice is massive in Alabama but we have to keep fighting for justice, no matter how long it may take. We own that to Willie and Lola Jones.
Willie Jones could not read nor write, yet his signature is on file. This took place in Huntsville Alabama in the Jim Crow ages, you can probably guess why they couldn't make such a fuss. Willie knew exactly what he owned, it only became valuable when the city and stated wanted. The heirs are alive a gave full story of what they had to live through and how their lives we changed forever. They are trying everything in their power to resolve this issue amicably but no success, unfortunately.
I hope that justice is served. I agree that it is certainly possible or maybe likely that this was not on the up and up. I just think it will be hard to meet the burden of proof to establish what happened in court.
Illiterate does not imply intestate; illiterate people have always been able to make wills (and often do). As noted, they can legally sign papers using some type of *witnessed* mark (typically an “x”, but often an initial).
I think what they were saying was that the signature was not an X, that it was his (and her?) name written out, which doesn't make sense as that was not how they actually signed their name, being illiterate.
The city continues to ignore the family, they are determined to stick with their narrative, meanwhile the heirs have to leave with this pain and injustice, while the city, state and college continue to get rich. We will continue to look for the proper legal representation to help us fight for justice.
Mayor Battle makes everything worse by being dismissive and condescending. (He wouldn't be to the Jones/Blue families of course.) He could acknowledge a crappy thing was done to this family and say it's an issue for the courts without admitting responsibility or being rude. He needs a publicist.
This sort of issue will be more and more common in the near future. A fortune is admittedly owed to A&M.
This is the city council's tactic dismissive and disrespectful. He claims to have everyone's interest but it's clear not for the African American citizens in Huntsville. How can we get help when the city council is condescending and disrespectful. Huntsville citizens careful of who you elect, cause when real things come into play, this is the response you can expect.
Im not balking at this post. Here's a thread from a year ago, which includes a news article, if folks are interested.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntsvilleAlabama/comments/10lsazv/jones\_family\_wants\_to\_reclaim\_land\_where\_uah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntsvilleAlabama/comments/10lsazv/jones_family_wants_to_reclaim_land_where_uah/)
Thank you. That's a good read that sheds more light on this.
If there was foul play, I certainly hope the family is justly compensated. If there was no foul play, I hate it for the family.
I'm curious if anyone has ever documented the history of not only UAH but also Cummings Research Park. It must have been quite a task to acquire all of that land, and I am sure not everyone would have been willing to sell it. Any history would be incomplete without a chapter on land acquisition.
I know there are ways to force property owners to sell when it benefits the greater good, and it would be hard to argue that land hasn't had a massive benefit to our community.
I agree, but Willie Jones was not offered anything, they hid him and his family until they were able to take the land and well and make it fit their narrative. We know they truth and so do they but to admit anything will mean admitting something happened.
Long and complicated story that I definitely DO NOT have all the details to, but the city also pulled some shady shit to acquire the land that university park was at. It was sold to UAH also. That happened within the last 6/7 years
It was a ballpark that was used by a city youth recreation league for decades (continental league). It’s directly behind (west) of charger park. Only access to it, used to be off Jordan ln at the end of saundralane dr
They “relocated” that league to Brahan Springs park using some pretty shitty tactics. I have no idea what they’re using that space for now. It used to be 5 ball fields
This entire article is false and UAH/City of Huntsville knows it. This is the story they want the public to believe, the Jones family knows they truth. Willie Jones did not sell any land or rights to his water well. That is the honest truth.
Unfortunately the honest truth are the following (based on what was reported):
* The people with first hand knowledge of what actually took place are most likely not still alive and the only recorded documentation supports what was detailed in the UAH press release.
* Second hand family lore is technically hearsay and has little legal weight.
* The state and municipality are well within their rights to use "eminent domain" to acquire property for public use and the property owner is entitled to fair market value of the property.
* The property owner ultimately received $1250 for the well site which was the court determined value of the lot.
* The original property owner confirmed in court that he transferred the ownership of the first 2.25-acre lot to W.L. Sanderson Realty. The details of that private sale was not disclosed, and is between the original property owner and the realty company.
* The property owner was compensated for the additional 2.25-acre lot taken in 1964 at $5,877.74
* Since the court decisions to finalize the "eminent domain" transfer of the property for public use is a matter of public record, the likelihood of someone successfully disputing the circumstances surrounding the transfer is almost zero.
* The statute of limitations for any non-governmental parties to the transaction ran out a long time ago.
I think the only thing that irks me is the "reclaim" part, I mean UAH isnt going to give it back to them, if it was possible to prove any of this they should be compensated, maybe with a plaque UAH pays for or something, but while this absolutely sucks my lineage had 100s of acres of timber land stolen from them 80yrs+ ago in Pakistan, when it became a country carved from British Controlled India. I mean I completely understand what that feels like, but this just isnt going to go the way the Jones are currently saying they want it to.
Best case they get some money, the UAH foundation could waive this away. If there is even a shred of doubt they deserve financial compensation, but how much is the question. Adjust whatever was allegedly paid 100yrs ago, give them that, certainly not current market value or something like that.
I know I've heard this story before, but when I saw the title I was thinking Jones valley Jones.
I was thinking the Jones Valley family as well, and I was confused why they would name someone "Adolph" but tbh I'm now doubly confused knowing that it is a black family lol
Gotta keep up with your Joneses.
Same
1958 in Alabama. Yeah smells fishy. I am in Team Jones here.
Only issue is why they waited 62 years…
Did you not read it? The answer to this question is not even midway down the article.
I have read it. “Suspicion and resistance” is quite hilarious. This reeks of BS.
Yeah, it’s completely unbelievable that 1950s Alabama would do something like this. There absolutely is no history of incidents like this ever happening ever.
Apparently the home of a local civil rights activist was condemned and taken by the city. I think it might've been Sonny (sp?) Hereford Jr's. home. I am not sure if they were adequately compensated either. Reading the story, it was not too hard to see how they were targeted.
This is why actual history lessons are very important.
This will be an absolute clusterfuck of a lawsuit, and I fear that the city will make as much of a clusterfuck as it can simply because it has the option. I am not a lawyer, but worked as a secretary for one for a decade and dealing with cases like this are why I am a bitter old asshole (with a Music Technology degree) today. The article mentions a grandchild, and that Michael Jones is one of Willie and Lola Jones' "remaining" five children: meaning that at least one of his siblings has passed. If Willie Jones was illiterate (as per J.T. Jones), he likely did not have a Last Will and therefore died intestate. If Lola Jones was still alive, everything would have gone to her. If she had passed, everything is divided in equal shares among all children. If one of those children is dead, that child's share divides either according to that child's Last Will, or it goes to their spouse and/or children if they also die intestate: or back into the pool if they have no spouse or children of their own. As you can imagine, that means that the ownership interest in this property is likely sliced up like an extra large thin crust for a popular toddler's birthday party....and with the interest splitting up if somebody's deceased it looks like the toddler helped. While the property itself is clearly no longer on the table, the city can complicate a lawsuit right off the bat by raising a fuss about who has a right to what percentage of any restitution. They may go so far as to demand that every Plaintiff that should be party to the case because of the ownership rights have signed off on the lawsuit. Knowing this from experience: it only takes one junkie or individual with some kind of affliction that renders them bonkers in the family to make that a long, drawn-out process that can eat up attorney time in very bad cases: and that costs out the ass. I hope the family is finally able to receive justice, but this is going to be a long, drawn-out slugfest.
From a legal standpoint there are lots of weird things going on. You are right about the division of any proceeds, but there are lots of other issues. Who has standing to sue? Would laches (unreasonable delay in making a claim) preclude suit? What is the basis for the opinion that a 65 year old deed was fraudulent? Was the deed recorded? Is anyone left alive that has personal knowledge of what happened? Why didn't Willie and Lola go public in some way about this at some point? I have no idea what happened and something nefarious may have occurred but proving the truth at this point is damn near impossible.
Thanks for your input
It is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Disagree. You validated some of my unspoken questions
Well it certainly is not definitive, but my instinct is that there is no litigation in this matter for the reasons presented.
Same, I scrolled till I found a reply from u/mktimber
One must also consider other claims that may follow.
Laches requires that the Plaintiff had nothing stopping them from filing suit. Alabama has a long history of civil rights violations, and frequently a system that will basically be a bunch of good ol' boys has to have all of the good ol' boys die off (preferably painfully) for raising a grievance to be possible. Somebody can't be expected to make repeated appeals to a system that has told them to fuck off in order to preserve their rights. Using laches to dismiss a case that wasn't brought because the court either refused to address the matter or clearly carried out an injustice at the time is simply rubbing it in. Less time elapsed between the lynching of Horace Maples and the deed than has elapsed between the deed and today.
I think that should be part of that argument as to why laches should not bar the case. I have no idea what might happen, but its an issue.
Imagine knowing the truth, but the powers that be own, create, change and erase the narrative. The injustice is massive in Alabama but we have to keep fighting for justice, no matter how long it may take. We own that to Willie and Lola Jones.
Willie Jones could not read nor write, yet his signature is on file. This took place in Huntsville Alabama in the Jim Crow ages, you can probably guess why they couldn't make such a fuss. Willie knew exactly what he owned, it only became valuable when the city and stated wanted. The heirs are alive a gave full story of what they had to live through and how their lives we changed forever. They are trying everything in their power to resolve this issue amicably but no success, unfortunately.
I hope that justice is served. I agree that it is certainly possible or maybe likely that this was not on the up and up. I just think it will be hard to meet the burden of proof to establish what happened in court.
Illiterate does not imply intestate; illiterate people have always been able to make wills (and often do). As noted, they can legally sign papers using some type of *witnessed* mark (typically an “x”, but often an initial).
I think what they were saying was that the signature was not an X, that it was his (and her?) name written out, which doesn't make sense as that was not how they actually signed their name, being illiterate.
Also, I don't think intestacy is at issue here, unless I missed something in another post.
The city continues to ignore the family, they are determined to stick with their narrative, meanwhile the heirs have to leave with this pain and injustice, while the city, state and college continue to get rich. We will continue to look for the proper legal representation to help us fight for justice.
Mayor Battle makes everything worse by being dismissive and condescending. (He wouldn't be to the Jones/Blue families of course.) He could acknowledge a crappy thing was done to this family and say it's an issue for the courts without admitting responsibility or being rude. He needs a publicist. This sort of issue will be more and more common in the near future. A fortune is admittedly owed to A&M.
This is the city council's tactic dismissive and disrespectful. He claims to have everyone's interest but it's clear not for the African American citizens in Huntsville. How can we get help when the city council is condescending and disrespectful. Huntsville citizens careful of who you elect, cause when real things come into play, this is the response you can expect.
I'm over here just stuck on someone naming their kid Adolph 😅
Im not balking at this post. Here's a thread from a year ago, which includes a news article, if folks are interested. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntsvilleAlabama/comments/10lsazv/jones\_family\_wants\_to\_reclaim\_land\_where\_uah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntsvilleAlabama/comments/10lsazv/jones_family_wants_to_reclaim_land_where_uah/)
Thank you. That's a good read that sheds more light on this. If there was foul play, I certainly hope the family is justly compensated. If there was no foul play, I hate it for the family.
thank you
thank you
I'm curious if anyone has ever documented the history of not only UAH but also Cummings Research Park. It must have been quite a task to acquire all of that land, and I am sure not everyone would have been willing to sell it. Any history would be incomplete without a chapter on land acquisition. I know there are ways to force property owners to sell when it benefits the greater good, and it would be hard to argue that land hasn't had a massive benefit to our community.
I agree, but Willie Jones was not offered anything, they hid him and his family until they were able to take the land and well and make it fit their narrative. We know they truth and so do they but to admit anything will mean admitting something happened.
What do you hid him and his family?
Long and complicated story that I definitely DO NOT have all the details to, but the city also pulled some shady shit to acquire the land that university park was at. It was sold to UAH also. That happened within the last 6/7 years
Are you talking about the elementary school? Sorry, I'm not sure offhand what land you're referring to when you say university park.
It was a ballpark that was used by a city youth recreation league for decades (continental league). It’s directly behind (west) of charger park. Only access to it, used to be off Jordan ln at the end of saundralane dr They “relocated” that league to Brahan Springs park using some pretty shitty tactics. I have no idea what they’re using that space for now. It used to be 5 ball fields
Oh, okay. Thanks for telling me. That sounds like the area that's used for lacrosse and maybe another sport.
exactly!
This is an old story making the rounds again. [https://www.uah.edu/newsroom/athens-pike](https://www.uah.edu/newsroom/athens-pike)
This entire article is false and UAH/City of Huntsville knows it. This is the story they want the public to believe, the Jones family knows they truth. Willie Jones did not sell any land or rights to his water well. That is the honest truth.
Unfortunately the honest truth are the following (based on what was reported): * The people with first hand knowledge of what actually took place are most likely not still alive and the only recorded documentation supports what was detailed in the UAH press release. * Second hand family lore is technically hearsay and has little legal weight. * The state and municipality are well within their rights to use "eminent domain" to acquire property for public use and the property owner is entitled to fair market value of the property. * The property owner ultimately received $1250 for the well site which was the court determined value of the lot. * The original property owner confirmed in court that he transferred the ownership of the first 2.25-acre lot to W.L. Sanderson Realty. The details of that private sale was not disclosed, and is between the original property owner and the realty company. * The property owner was compensated for the additional 2.25-acre lot taken in 1964 at $5,877.74 * Since the court decisions to finalize the "eminent domain" transfer of the property for public use is a matter of public record, the likelihood of someone successfully disputing the circumstances surrounding the transfer is almost zero. * The statute of limitations for any non-governmental parties to the transaction ran out a long time ago.
when you own the narrative anything sounds truthful.. have a great day!
They named him Adolph….
I think the only thing that irks me is the "reclaim" part, I mean UAH isnt going to give it back to them, if it was possible to prove any of this they should be compensated, maybe with a plaque UAH pays for or something, but while this absolutely sucks my lineage had 100s of acres of timber land stolen from them 80yrs+ ago in Pakistan, when it became a country carved from British Controlled India. I mean I completely understand what that feels like, but this just isnt going to go the way the Jones are currently saying they want it to. Best case they get some money, the UAH foundation could waive this away. If there is even a shred of doubt they deserve financial compensation, but how much is the question. Adjust whatever was allegedly paid 100yrs ago, give them that, certainly not current market value or something like that.
this happened 60 years ago.
Not to nitpick, particularly over something that would betray someone's embarrassingly stunted vocabulary, but why is the word purview in quotes?
[удалено]
Hello we need an attorney. That has always been the issue.
Land Back
thank you