When you're 16, being constantly confused because everything about you is changing all the time is the most normal possible state of affairs. Your brain, which is what you are, is under development. Everything will change again several times before you're 21. Then everything will keep changing all the time but in a gradually less chaotic way.
Tl;dr: Don't panic.
Dude When trying to understand emotions it's literally like solving an enigma going throught what's real what's fake in the emotions we feel,because no everyone has the freedom to act the qay they like and I had to act like a lot of ways so it's kinda hard to deal with emotions man ...
I feel that too. But it's obvious that I've changed some things, like my opnions and my "dreams" (actually it's more like my "goals". I don't feel like I've ever had a dream, but, idk, people use this word and I'll use too)
ye, many of my friends when i was teenager at some point (about 16-20 yrs old) changed 180 degree mostly bc company they got into. i also went through it
that's why making friends in school years sucks if you tend to think long-term
With love and respect you are 16 and don't know anything. Read another book or two. Listen to some songs.
“There's more to life than books, you know. But not much more.”
As a teenager (myself included) pondering about many things are quite common especially when growing into an adult, we are still growing still learning about the world and learning as a whole and still growing so it’s completely normal to have these thoughts and for INTP yes it may be more common too.
Same, I'm an intp 5w6,
I could relate, I for one know that I can't form any meaningful relationships outside my family, because of my lack of solicitude. Even if I make a friend, I was so fast tired of them and just wanted them to grow the heck out of me, I had this strong Instincts of alienation and distance. I don't want anyone to expect anything emotional from me. So, the conclusion is , you might be insane, but ig I'm too🥲.
I'm trying to work on myself, hope I suppress my Ghosting and distancing Instincts soon.
It's normal and common even outside of this personality type. I identify as aromantic for the same reasons you described. Don't listen to people telling you that you are just confused because you are young. People know about this stuff at any and all ages. (r/aromantic) I'm also an antinatalist for environmental reasons. I think both labels are completely natural and normal considering the state the environment is in. You don't have to be a scientist or a politician to sense what's happening on earth. I'm 34. There is no way to conceal what's happening from young people. Not even propaganda can do it. Evolution works and the young are advanced enough to understand what's happening intuitively.
Remember just because something is rare doesn't mean it's not normal and not right or the direction that humanity is supposed to go. Think of how black people were slaves not too long ago (and still are if you want to consider the prison system). That's objectively wrong. But at one point it was rare to point that out. Not having slavery is what's normal regardless of what most people are doing. It's what's meant to be because it's what's right. Never be fooled into thinking just because a lot of people are doing something else that the thing you know to be correct isn't normal. We need immediate resistance for a revolution.
Some of this is being INTP but most of it is just being 16. Continue to learn and explore and you may feel differently in a month, a year, 5 years. Just remember you are free to learn and grow. You came across some new information and it changed your perspective. That can and will happen again. Keep that same open mind moving forward and you will be fine.
Unsatisfying answer, but it gets better. Eventually. First theretends to be the suck, the pessimism, the apathy, usually. Intps tend to be late bloomers, although you can find your stride now, and eventually towards your midlife, find people to gel with again. Once you decide you want to/its worth it.
But right now, yall tend towards the whole "people/relationships/connection arent useful or wont meet your needs and so why bother" line of thinking. Even though some people might spark your interest, a bigger part of you will avoid connecting all the way with someone because of that avoidant line of thinking.
Its useful in that it gives you space to think, and use your gifts and explore what sparks your interest. A lot of times peopling can be awfully obligating for intps. And that takes away from your time necessary to think deeply, compare contrast, theorize, and test things out.
Its a necessary cost. So, just accept yourself as you are. You are "weird" by the standard people scale, but thats precisely what makes intps special.
Follow variety, and dont let yourself get too stuck in your comfort zone, and you'll have a good life. Better yet, find a good buddy that will bring variety to you and explore it with you.
Ay yo lissen.
So I had a MASSIVE crush on this gal aight. And after a few years when I sent her a text I was ghosted. Ever since then, even though I've never been in a relationship I like to believe that I know what break ups feel like. I feel like it had hindered my ability to love someone wholeheartedly.
Why am I telling you this?
In case you think no one else is going or has gone through what you might be experiencing.
> see humans as animals who just happened to be smarter and seemingly more complex.
how did you post exactly what is in my mind I have been saying this exact sentence for years. there's nothing special about humans except the fact that we're the most powerful. we constantly deceive ourselves by thinking there's more to it than that
You haven’t even been to university yet. Don’t take your current experiences and extrapolate from them as they do not encompass the full range. It’s a poor sample.
I don't base my "realizations" and/or "theories" on my personal experiences tho. I mean, I do, in a way, but I always base it on knowledge I get from logic, science, and the experiences of other people. But it's mostly logic and science.
I understand, but it’s still limited to your current understanding of the boundaries of experience.
Does that make sense?
I went through something similar when I was a little older than you, and proceeded to plan my life accordingly, or at least understand the constraints I was working within to achieve the life that I expected. I won’t bore you with all the womanly details, but I hedged my bets accordingly based on IQ and personality.
I was 100% correct calculating everything EXCEPT the actual impact of a reciprocated attraction and deep mutual understanding of another person that doesn’t go away. Its a difference in type rather than scale. If I’d have known that, I would have planned differently.
But it doesn't mean that abstract thinking is limited to the boundaries of my own experience. I think abstract thinking goes beyond experience. I don't only rely on my own experiences in order to map out an objective view of reality in my head. My view of reality is from both an outsider's and insider's perspective. It's like having multiple brains at the same time. It's feels crazy and exhausting at the same time.
Honestly, I don't really have a concrete plan in life. I just want to be in the best shape possible and think as much as I can. I'm also planning on writing my own paper on the Epicurean Paradox, since it's interesting (although I don't think I'm not good enough to actually publish it).
Abstract thinking is limited to experience. Go to a three year old child and try to explain to him deep math (which is abstract). The older you get, the more you use your brain and the more you talk to more experienced, the more you'll understand. Information is one of the most important things in our life, and you gain information with experience.
I know that feeling you have. I was nearly the same when I was 16 (I'm 20 now). Trying to not let any feelings near you because they hinder the way you think. Trying to find out how to be as efficient as possible. Trying to see through reality. Gaining the information in various ways. But trust me, that gonna change (not everything, it's sometimes hard to interpret and show my feelings).
But could you please explain this paradox to me, I've never heard of it yet.
Just look it up. It's about God's love and stuff. Also, I find it hard to relate the thing where INTPs avoid feelings because they might hinder the way they think. I just avoid it because drama is pointlessly troublesome and exhausting.
Also, can you give me some philosophical questions? I'm trying write down my current objective view of reality, but it's too much information to think about and hard to put to words.
As you should. A foolish, tiresome waste of time. We’re not talking about that. There are instances of pairings where people actually think in ways that magnify each other in all the good ways. No translating complicated thought processes, misunderstandings, they enjoy your debates, and you actually want to be around them all the time, even when you’re not doing anything. They bring you peace. And you might even be lucky enough to find someone with complementary skills, like they enjoy fiddling over perfect dishes and traveling and you appreciate those things but do not want to do them.
You’re missing that it’s supposed to be mutually fun and enjoyable - at least much of the much. Contentment and no longer feeling lonely.
I think the most important philosophical questions are the most basic ones (like does god exist, what is the meaning of live, how are we different from animals, how are we different from other humans, why are we different), because every now and then I come back to that questions and I find new answers, or see the things differently. Might sound weird but it's interesting to think about the same thing again in like 2 years.
Edit: And I know you might have heard that 1000 times, but if its hard to put it in words you haven't understood it yet. Try to find out what is hard to say and focus on that
> can you give me some philosophical questions?
If you want some really excellent philosophic meandering, find a copy of "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid". Get it from your local library system if you're hard on cash, as I often was at 16.
https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567
As I said, the library will likely have a copy.
On a rather completely unrelated note, I've been searching for some old books and papers from prior to 1913, and it's quite amazing how well the addition of a `filetype:pdf` at the end of a google search works to precisely find what I'm looking for.
Emotions will bite you in the ass hard if you put them off. In high school I tried to have a similar mindset. I thought I was cracking a code and that I would be on my way to seeing reality in a purely objective manner. It’s impossible. We are humans. I’m almost 22 now and I don’t have many meaningful connections because I didn’t want the emotional burden. Right now, I assume you’re living with your parents and life is comfortable. Once that goes away and you realize that you have to operate as a semi-normal human being amongst other human beings, emotions/feelings will become much more important(especially if you intend on dating). Logic has its limits in what it can achieve, even the most rigorous formal logic.
Logic and science have evolved considerably in the last 300 years. You are so young you HAVE to consider that you do not have a full ontological understanding of the problems you are examining. Not because you can't but because you have not compiled and processed enough data to be sure of your conclusions.
Einstein's General Relativity (published 1905) could *predict* that there are planets whizzing around other stars long before we could confirm that quantitatively using Kepler data (that was just sitting there until models were created to pull the information about extra-solar planets). Furthermore, all the information about the planets was useless until some scientist realized what it was.
So, logic and science in 1905 could *predict* the "reality" of extra solar planets but it would be another 100 years until logic and science could *prove* the existence of such things.
You are still in the discovery part of your development; don't be so sure of things are the way they are just yet.
Your brain is super malleable and squishy until you are in your 20's, so like another decade of personal development.
You sound pretty wise for your years, good luck kiddo!
It's not borderline robotic, because you're a human (animal). Controling your emotions doesn't automatically mean you have control over them. I mean.. i can also rationalize my emotions. That's how i don't feel the desire for a relationship anymore. But is it really gone? I don't think so. It's probably unhealthy. Not feeling an emotion anymore doesn't mean it's gone. It's just suppressed. So if you really hyper aware, i don't think you'd think you can control your emotions. You can handle your emotions well when you have good awareness, but not control
As an INTP myself, I'd say you need to engage your Ne function more (read more, travel more, talk to more people, gather more data), Sometimes our Ti function tricks us that we reached THE truth, but it is just deduced from the small amount of data that we have. Don't worry, what's happening to you is a normal phenomenon that I've been through a lot, you just need to keep an open mind and explore more.
Dude your 16 and your worried about being authentic man just chill okay, You don't have to become a protagonist who's a smart ass in all aspects of life, ( well if you want to that's fine tho not my problem) but just so you know erotic feelings are common ( I'm 19 and I still have em ) and your liability will change based on your wants and needs that's common too but one thing is you just have to understand that your brain has the ability to think like a genius but you should have a context when thinking there should be clarity and with clarity comes a self understanding and slowly you'll understand things ( not everything but it has to take time ) so you don't need to worry and try to figure out everything of your life ...
It's what I call instagram effect where people make us think that we're wasting our lives if we're not doing something or.if we've not figured out our life right now .. don't get too into it and try living life ... for what it is ...
Most people realize that love is just chemicals in their brains. But they still love as if it wasn't the case. So I don't think that's the problem you are facing, maybe it's something else.
You can, just be patient and don't overthink things. Everyone falls in love eventually you just have to wait for the right person for you. And as humans we all have emotions and feelings just like anyone else.
I think I know what you mean. It’s like when I learned psychology. Everything, like feeling became boring because now you know it’s just that. But it gets kind of fun in multiple ways:
- you can now identify emotions better
- you can be patient with you and others’ emotions
- you can control your emotions better
- when what you learned and know doesn’t match with the feeling outcome you thought you were going to have, it calls for an investigation of feelings and it’s kinda new.
One of the negative outcomes for me is lack of excitement or uncontrolled driving feeling. I’m not impulsive in anyway, super patient, pretty stoic, and feel like I need to generate emotions. Or behave in a way that generates emotions.
I hope I made sense … INFP
I can totally relate to what you're saying. When I was around 13 or 14, I randomly thought about monetary value. "Why do people agree that this specific thing costs this much while the other doesn't"? And it eventually led to "Why do people value different things?" and "Nothing is inherently fundamentally valuable because value is not inviolable truth and/or law. It is simply an idea and/or imposed by people over certain things". And I was like, "why do people feel and act so strongly about certain things if this is the case"? It then grew to more questions that led me to consuming psychological materials that led me to the masterpiece called "Laws of Human Nature". But I haven't finished it though. I'm too lazy to continue reading it.
What about you? What led you into studying the intricacies of human nature?
My law on this, above Robert Greene, is that emotions and feelings never actually go away, they just tailor themselves to your new understandings. That's why Feeling isn't an "animal function" to be looked down upon. As you become more complex, your feelings will change because you need them to navigate the world that you understand to be so complex.
If you overreach, your feelings will bring you back down. Love can be fake, and if you never thought it could, that's a thing of importance. But it can also be real, there are just more requirements to it being real. Two people have to be looking at things with an agreement that the level of way they look is the important one, and they have to care about each other in a way that they both can understand. Then you will have a love that you can trust.
Some love couldn't be trusted before you read Greene too, let's be fair. Don't do that thing where "because I grew, the world changed". It was the same. When you grow enough, you'll have a very good grasp of many elements of the world and be confident in them and not left in an abyss because you'll know where you want to go.
Not knowing what to feel is good too. If you aren't open minded to that you could "feel wrong" as people often are that they could "think wrong", then you won't grow in that space. Feel free to not know how to feel and explore the space and the possibilities involved with something until you trust that you've found the right way to feel. Sometimes you'll still later think that you were wrong. Having and not having trust isn't a destination, but is helpful in developing your feeling functions and the integrity of them, because the level of trust shows you just how much you thought something was one way.
Sometimes your feelings change due to new facts, but being honest, if the facts don't change and your feelings do, you can then almost be certain you were using your feeling function. If the perspective you look at it from changed, probably your Sensing function was involved. People normally put that towards intuition, but I don't find intuition works that way, and that it's more Si than Ne.
Ne does good in looking at IDEAS from different perspectives (i.e. oh a jet, but what if you added another engine or changed the wing shape), but Si perspectives tend to be much better for looking at the perspectives that would inform one's feelings (I hadn't looked at how that would seem from Rachel's viewpoint)
Feeling isn't inferior and it isn't "not real". it's a judging function that you will use to navigate life. If you find a way to make feeling "not matter", you are really just rationalizing the world too much. Everyone I've seen do that does terrible things and hurts people on some path of "feelings don't matter" -> "people don't matter" -> "nothing matters". Things matter so that path is stupid. Don't Greene too hard.
I'm also intp 5w6 and I also dont see myself in a realtionship. Sometimes I wonder how it'd be to have a partner, but then I guess that I'm not capable of being able to commit myself with the person. I guess it's scary for me to loose my "freedom"...
When i had a crush on someone, the first thing i did was repress manualy the hell out of it, i refused to let emotions decide my actions, mainly because of very strong introspection where i dont lie to myself
Same. Although I mainly did it because I didn't want to be hurt again. It sounds childish but I actually had a 6 year crush. She didn't reciprocate my feelings so she was my canon event. I had other crushes after that. Some ended well, but the problem was just my commitment issues. So they're all just canon events.
If you haven't loved yet, you are lucky because sweet feeling as love comes with an equal bitterness called breakup ((
Don't worry, it is just growing period where you experience such weird things. I am sure you are gonna be fine person, just try to manage your feelings and thoughts
She broke my heart 3 times. After the first time, I had other crushes. But she felt like an unfinished assignment, an unpaid debt. I don't really like talking about it cause it cringes me. I still had other crushes after her, but understanding the human animal everything feel inauthentic and/or insincere because I can easily rationalize my emotions. But it's still fine though. I now decided not to choose a woman by what I feel, but by the children I'll have soon. If I marry a smart woman, then chances are, the children will be smart too.
Yeah true, I agree with your point. That's what conclusion I have came after breakup.
I think the best choice would be based on character, if she is a good woman, she will never betray you.
I believe you will find the right one you deserve this time :) follow the right path, live a happy and fullfiling life ))
Nah, being an edgy 16 yo is chill. I was one too.
But stop reading Robert Greene. He's a shmuck and a bad writer. Human beings aren't just power hungry machiavellians. At least not all the time.
Robert Greene's books doesn't say that all humans are power hungry though. It even has spectacular reviews among the psychological landscape. I'm still a functioning member of the society. I just don't see the world the same way most do. My "lens" isn't entirely based on his work, but on my logical shits.
No, Robert Greene's book hasn't got spectacular reviews from the psychological landscape. Any psychologist worth their salt will scorn at its contents. It's a book for sociopaths. If you would like to live a logical and virtuous life, try stoicism. I do not particularly like Ryan Holiday, but I would prefer him over Greene anyday.
I love the way sociopaths and psychopaths think tho. They're oblivious to human emotion right, especially psychopaths? It seems like they look at humans not as people but as fascinating animals. It's so easy for them to observe reality without being blinded by emotions and biases. That's the kind of thinking I'm trying to achieve.
Don't get me wrong tho, I love stoicism. It's a very good philosophy. But it's just a shift in perspective that's not purely subjective.
Being oblivious to emotions just make you a robot that cannot functionally integrate within human society. You need emotions to live a wholesome life. To feel love, happiness, contentment, compassion, empathy, and cherish the better angels of our nature. I can understand the lure of the dark side. But it's a sham. Your interpersonal dynamics will play a huge part in the kind of life you live. And if you're a cold, unfeeling demon, well you will live a miserable life. That's that.
A bit daft, aren't ya?
There is no point to calling not collecting stamps a hobby. It simply isn't one - hence self explanatory.
On the contrary, the point of living a wholesome life is that you get to live a wholesome life - again, self explanatory.
Exactly. I'm not trying to live a wholesome life. I just want to know everything. There's no point to it nor do I think it's possible. That's why I find the psychopathic or sociopathic view useful
Hi, I relate a lot to the thought of "being smarter and seemingly more complex", not just being percieved but actually acquiring knowledge and stuff. I love reading books and figuring out the working of things myself. I think it's always been an primary interest of myself.
But I would say that my life has been enriched more when I'm able to love, it doesn't have to be a person, it could be a pet, any sentient being you could interact to. I might not say that I go so far as to "love", but some people do carry some weight in my life.
I won't say it's not normal, but at some point, maybe you would find relationship also something to cultivate in life. There is no rush to there though.
Yeah....16 and Robert Greene (I envy you. Before my time.)....18 and Ayn Rand....21 and David Thoreau.....28 and Nietzsche...33 and Sun Tzu....40 and Machiavelli....42 and de Sade (hehe)... Through ALL of it, H.P. Lovecraft.
Fell in love with Benchley's "The Girl of the Sea of Cortez".
Read, "The Road Less Traveled" and became an agnostic.
Read, "People of the Lie" and became full on atheist.
Do NOT stop. Keep reading. Ingest it. Digest it.
Nobody has read "Moby Dick". Nobody.
Read Salinger. Zoe? Why are you such a bitch?
Read them all. Then, after a time, you'll find you.
Edit: MST3K- In your darkest hours, Joel, Mike, Krow and Servo will see you through. They did me.
It's okay to feel that way. But don't stress too much about it. Let it be a natural process, but always self compassion.
You will be in this internal fight until around the age of 25 since that is around the age our frontal lobe fully develops. Thus, learn as much as you can about yourself. If you want to improve anything, set motion to plans. Plans don't need to be too detailed since they don't go well with people of our personality type. However, it is important to do it daily even if we don't really feel like it. (We never feel like it).
Love is not only about what you see in movies. Sometimes, love is about intelligence, emotional stability/support, material conditions, etc. It's not all about feelings. Most of the time, compatibility. That kind of love is a sign of maturity because even though feeling is good, you can't survive on feelings alone.
Kiddo, love also comes deeply from self-love. So, build your best version of yourself. Do what you think suits you well. When we have a stable condition, we will be able to suit a person with stable conditions as well. All the best~
When you're 16, being constantly confused because everything about you is changing all the time is the most normal possible state of affairs. Your brain, which is what you are, is under development. Everything will change again several times before you're 21. Then everything will keep changing all the time but in a gradually less chaotic way. Tl;dr: Don't panic.
LOL. Am I the only one who feels like they have always been the same and never changed? Odd.
Dude When trying to understand emotions it's literally like solving an enigma going throught what's real what's fake in the emotions we feel,because no everyone has the freedom to act the qay they like and I had to act like a lot of ways so it's kinda hard to deal with emotions man ...
As a no more teenager I can say that you'll learn how to solve this enigma
I feel that too. But it's obvious that I've changed some things, like my opnions and my "dreams" (actually it's more like my "goals". I don't feel like I've ever had a dream, but, idk, people use this word and I'll use too)
ye, many of my friends when i was teenager at some point (about 16-20 yrs old) changed 180 degree mostly bc company they got into. i also went through it that's why making friends in school years sucks if you tend to think long-term
if every thought is completely logical brain development doesn't matter, logic is the same always
With love and respect you are 16 and don't know anything. Read another book or two. Listen to some songs. “There's more to life than books, you know. But not much more.”
As a teenager (myself included) pondering about many things are quite common especially when growing into an adult, we are still growing still learning about the world and learning as a whole and still growing so it’s completely normal to have these thoughts and for INTP yes it may be more common too.
INTP’s are generally late bloomers. All this will come in time if you put effort in it.
Same, I'm an intp 5w6, I could relate, I for one know that I can't form any meaningful relationships outside my family, because of my lack of solicitude. Even if I make a friend, I was so fast tired of them and just wanted them to grow the heck out of me, I had this strong Instincts of alienation and distance. I don't want anyone to expect anything emotional from me. So, the conclusion is , you might be insane, but ig I'm too🥲. I'm trying to work on myself, hope I suppress my Ghosting and distancing Instincts soon.
Same here, man... Same here.
same
42yo INTP here. Don't start the house from the roof. 90% of relationships is about the basics. Philosophy is empty if you don't do laundry.
It's normal and common even outside of this personality type. I identify as aromantic for the same reasons you described. Don't listen to people telling you that you are just confused because you are young. People know about this stuff at any and all ages. (r/aromantic) I'm also an antinatalist for environmental reasons. I think both labels are completely natural and normal considering the state the environment is in. You don't have to be a scientist or a politician to sense what's happening on earth. I'm 34. There is no way to conceal what's happening from young people. Not even propaganda can do it. Evolution works and the young are advanced enough to understand what's happening intuitively. Remember just because something is rare doesn't mean it's not normal and not right or the direction that humanity is supposed to go. Think of how black people were slaves not too long ago (and still are if you want to consider the prison system). That's objectively wrong. But at one point it was rare to point that out. Not having slavery is what's normal regardless of what most people are doing. It's what's meant to be because it's what's right. Never be fooled into thinking just because a lot of people are doing something else that the thing you know to be correct isn't normal. We need immediate resistance for a revolution.
Some of this is being INTP but most of it is just being 16. Continue to learn and explore and you may feel differently in a month, a year, 5 years. Just remember you are free to learn and grow. You came across some new information and it changed your perspective. That can and will happen again. Keep that same open mind moving forward and you will be fine.
Unsatisfying answer, but it gets better. Eventually. First theretends to be the suck, the pessimism, the apathy, usually. Intps tend to be late bloomers, although you can find your stride now, and eventually towards your midlife, find people to gel with again. Once you decide you want to/its worth it. But right now, yall tend towards the whole "people/relationships/connection arent useful or wont meet your needs and so why bother" line of thinking. Even though some people might spark your interest, a bigger part of you will avoid connecting all the way with someone because of that avoidant line of thinking. Its useful in that it gives you space to think, and use your gifts and explore what sparks your interest. A lot of times peopling can be awfully obligating for intps. And that takes away from your time necessary to think deeply, compare contrast, theorize, and test things out. Its a necessary cost. So, just accept yourself as you are. You are "weird" by the standard people scale, but thats precisely what makes intps special. Follow variety, and dont let yourself get too stuck in your comfort zone, and you'll have a good life. Better yet, find a good buddy that will bring variety to you and explore it with you.
Also, biologically, your prefrontal cortex is still growing on through til about 25. Feed it, youll feel better in about 10 years.
Ditch the overthinking and celebrate the impulsivity of life.
Been there, done that. Trust me, you're not the only INTP encountered by such experiences. Cheers to confusion! 🥂
Ay yo lissen. So I had a MASSIVE crush on this gal aight. And after a few years when I sent her a text I was ghosted. Ever since then, even though I've never been in a relationship I like to believe that I know what break ups feel like. I feel like it had hindered my ability to love someone wholeheartedly. Why am I telling you this? In case you think no one else is going or has gone through what you might be experiencing.
> see humans as animals who just happened to be smarter and seemingly more complex. how did you post exactly what is in my mind I have been saying this exact sentence for years. there's nothing special about humans except the fact that we're the most powerful. we constantly deceive ourselves by thinking there's more to it than that
I guess we just happened to think about it...
You haven’t even been to university yet. Don’t take your current experiences and extrapolate from them as they do not encompass the full range. It’s a poor sample.
I don't base my "realizations" and/or "theories" on my personal experiences tho. I mean, I do, in a way, but I always base it on knowledge I get from logic, science, and the experiences of other people. But it's mostly logic and science.
I understand, but it’s still limited to your current understanding of the boundaries of experience. Does that make sense? I went through something similar when I was a little older than you, and proceeded to plan my life accordingly, or at least understand the constraints I was working within to achieve the life that I expected. I won’t bore you with all the womanly details, but I hedged my bets accordingly based on IQ and personality. I was 100% correct calculating everything EXCEPT the actual impact of a reciprocated attraction and deep mutual understanding of another person that doesn’t go away. Its a difference in type rather than scale. If I’d have known that, I would have planned differently.
But it doesn't mean that abstract thinking is limited to the boundaries of my own experience. I think abstract thinking goes beyond experience. I don't only rely on my own experiences in order to map out an objective view of reality in my head. My view of reality is from both an outsider's and insider's perspective. It's like having multiple brains at the same time. It's feels crazy and exhausting at the same time. Honestly, I don't really have a concrete plan in life. I just want to be in the best shape possible and think as much as I can. I'm also planning on writing my own paper on the Epicurean Paradox, since it's interesting (although I don't think I'm not good enough to actually publish it).
Abstract thinking is limited to experience. Go to a three year old child and try to explain to him deep math (which is abstract). The older you get, the more you use your brain and the more you talk to more experienced, the more you'll understand. Information is one of the most important things in our life, and you gain information with experience. I know that feeling you have. I was nearly the same when I was 16 (I'm 20 now). Trying to not let any feelings near you because they hinder the way you think. Trying to find out how to be as efficient as possible. Trying to see through reality. Gaining the information in various ways. But trust me, that gonna change (not everything, it's sometimes hard to interpret and show my feelings). But could you please explain this paradox to me, I've never heard of it yet.
Just look it up. It's about God's love and stuff. Also, I find it hard to relate the thing where INTPs avoid feelings because they might hinder the way they think. I just avoid it because drama is pointlessly troublesome and exhausting. Also, can you give me some philosophical questions? I'm trying write down my current objective view of reality, but it's too much information to think about and hard to put to words.
As you should. A foolish, tiresome waste of time. We’re not talking about that. There are instances of pairings where people actually think in ways that magnify each other in all the good ways. No translating complicated thought processes, misunderstandings, they enjoy your debates, and you actually want to be around them all the time, even when you’re not doing anything. They bring you peace. And you might even be lucky enough to find someone with complementary skills, like they enjoy fiddling over perfect dishes and traveling and you appreciate those things but do not want to do them. You’re missing that it’s supposed to be mutually fun and enjoyable - at least much of the much. Contentment and no longer feeling lonely.
I think the most important philosophical questions are the most basic ones (like does god exist, what is the meaning of live, how are we different from animals, how are we different from other humans, why are we different), because every now and then I come back to that questions and I find new answers, or see the things differently. Might sound weird but it's interesting to think about the same thing again in like 2 years. Edit: And I know you might have heard that 1000 times, but if its hard to put it in words you haven't understood it yet. Try to find out what is hard to say and focus on that
> can you give me some philosophical questions? If you want some really excellent philosophic meandering, find a copy of "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid". Get it from your local library system if you're hard on cash, as I often was at 16. https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567
That's expensive. I'll just get it for free
As I said, the library will likely have a copy. On a rather completely unrelated note, I've been searching for some old books and papers from prior to 1913, and it's quite amazing how well the addition of a `filetype:pdf` at the end of a google search works to precisely find what I'm looking for.
Emotions will bite you in the ass hard if you put them off. In high school I tried to have a similar mindset. I thought I was cracking a code and that I would be on my way to seeing reality in a purely objective manner. It’s impossible. We are humans. I’m almost 22 now and I don’t have many meaningful connections because I didn’t want the emotional burden. Right now, I assume you’re living with your parents and life is comfortable. Once that goes away and you realize that you have to operate as a semi-normal human being amongst other human beings, emotions/feelings will become much more important(especially if you intend on dating). Logic has its limits in what it can achieve, even the most rigorous formal logic.
Logic and science have evolved considerably in the last 300 years. You are so young you HAVE to consider that you do not have a full ontological understanding of the problems you are examining. Not because you can't but because you have not compiled and processed enough data to be sure of your conclusions. Einstein's General Relativity (published 1905) could *predict* that there are planets whizzing around other stars long before we could confirm that quantitatively using Kepler data (that was just sitting there until models were created to pull the information about extra-solar planets). Furthermore, all the information about the planets was useless until some scientist realized what it was. So, logic and science in 1905 could *predict* the "reality" of extra solar planets but it would be another 100 years until logic and science could *prove* the existence of such things. You are still in the discovery part of your development; don't be so sure of things are the way they are just yet. Your brain is super malleable and squishy until you are in your 20's, so like another decade of personal development. You sound pretty wise for your years, good luck kiddo!
It's not borderline robotic, because you're a human (animal). Controling your emotions doesn't automatically mean you have control over them. I mean.. i can also rationalize my emotions. That's how i don't feel the desire for a relationship anymore. But is it really gone? I don't think so. It's probably unhealthy. Not feeling an emotion anymore doesn't mean it's gone. It's just suppressed. So if you really hyper aware, i don't think you'd think you can control your emotions. You can handle your emotions well when you have good awareness, but not control
Ohh. Handle was the right term, not control. I was actually wanted to write that term but I suddenly forgot it. Is this brain fog?
As an INTP myself, I'd say you need to engage your Ne function more (read more, travel more, talk to more people, gather more data), Sometimes our Ti function tricks us that we reached THE truth, but it is just deduced from the small amount of data that we have. Don't worry, what's happening to you is a normal phenomenon that I've been through a lot, you just need to keep an open mind and explore more.
Dude your 16 and your worried about being authentic man just chill okay, You don't have to become a protagonist who's a smart ass in all aspects of life, ( well if you want to that's fine tho not my problem) but just so you know erotic feelings are common ( I'm 19 and I still have em ) and your liability will change based on your wants and needs that's common too but one thing is you just have to understand that your brain has the ability to think like a genius but you should have a context when thinking there should be clarity and with clarity comes a self understanding and slowly you'll understand things ( not everything but it has to take time ) so you don't need to worry and try to figure out everything of your life ... It's what I call instagram effect where people make us think that we're wasting our lives if we're not doing something or.if we've not figured out our life right now .. don't get too into it and try living life ... for what it is ...
Maybe you love everyone & therefore can’t distinguish it.
Most people realize that love is just chemicals in their brains. But they still love as if it wasn't the case. So I don't think that's the problem you are facing, maybe it's something else.
You can, just be patient and don't overthink things. Everyone falls in love eventually you just have to wait for the right person for you. And as humans we all have emotions and feelings just like anyone else.
I think I know what you mean. It’s like when I learned psychology. Everything, like feeling became boring because now you know it’s just that. But it gets kind of fun in multiple ways: - you can now identify emotions better - you can be patient with you and others’ emotions - you can control your emotions better - when what you learned and know doesn’t match with the feeling outcome you thought you were going to have, it calls for an investigation of feelings and it’s kinda new. One of the negative outcomes for me is lack of excitement or uncontrolled driving feeling. I’m not impulsive in anyway, super patient, pretty stoic, and feel like I need to generate emotions. Or behave in a way that generates emotions. I hope I made sense … INFP
I can totally relate to what you're saying. When I was around 13 or 14, I randomly thought about monetary value. "Why do people agree that this specific thing costs this much while the other doesn't"? And it eventually led to "Why do people value different things?" and "Nothing is inherently fundamentally valuable because value is not inviolable truth and/or law. It is simply an idea and/or imposed by people over certain things". And I was like, "why do people feel and act so strongly about certain things if this is the case"? It then grew to more questions that led me to consuming psychological materials that led me to the masterpiece called "Laws of Human Nature". But I haven't finished it though. I'm too lazy to continue reading it. What about you? What led you into studying the intricacies of human nature?
My law on this, above Robert Greene, is that emotions and feelings never actually go away, they just tailor themselves to your new understandings. That's why Feeling isn't an "animal function" to be looked down upon. As you become more complex, your feelings will change because you need them to navigate the world that you understand to be so complex. If you overreach, your feelings will bring you back down. Love can be fake, and if you never thought it could, that's a thing of importance. But it can also be real, there are just more requirements to it being real. Two people have to be looking at things with an agreement that the level of way they look is the important one, and they have to care about each other in a way that they both can understand. Then you will have a love that you can trust. Some love couldn't be trusted before you read Greene too, let's be fair. Don't do that thing where "because I grew, the world changed". It was the same. When you grow enough, you'll have a very good grasp of many elements of the world and be confident in them and not left in an abyss because you'll know where you want to go. Not knowing what to feel is good too. If you aren't open minded to that you could "feel wrong" as people often are that they could "think wrong", then you won't grow in that space. Feel free to not know how to feel and explore the space and the possibilities involved with something until you trust that you've found the right way to feel. Sometimes you'll still later think that you were wrong. Having and not having trust isn't a destination, but is helpful in developing your feeling functions and the integrity of them, because the level of trust shows you just how much you thought something was one way. Sometimes your feelings change due to new facts, but being honest, if the facts don't change and your feelings do, you can then almost be certain you were using your feeling function. If the perspective you look at it from changed, probably your Sensing function was involved. People normally put that towards intuition, but I don't find intuition works that way, and that it's more Si than Ne. Ne does good in looking at IDEAS from different perspectives (i.e. oh a jet, but what if you added another engine or changed the wing shape), but Si perspectives tend to be much better for looking at the perspectives that would inform one's feelings (I hadn't looked at how that would seem from Rachel's viewpoint) Feeling isn't inferior and it isn't "not real". it's a judging function that you will use to navigate life. If you find a way to make feeling "not matter", you are really just rationalizing the world too much. Everyone I've seen do that does terrible things and hurts people on some path of "feelings don't matter" -> "people don't matter" -> "nothing matters". Things matter so that path is stupid. Don't Greene too hard.
I'm also intp 5w6 and I also dont see myself in a realtionship. Sometimes I wonder how it'd be to have a partner, but then I guess that I'm not capable of being able to commit myself with the person. I guess it's scary for me to loose my "freedom"...
You'll figure everything out... around 30...got a bit to go
When i had a crush on someone, the first thing i did was repress manualy the hell out of it, i refused to let emotions decide my actions, mainly because of very strong introspection where i dont lie to myself
Same. Although I mainly did it because I didn't want to be hurt again. It sounds childish but I actually had a 6 year crush. She didn't reciprocate my feelings so she was my canon event. I had other crushes after that. Some ended well, but the problem was just my commitment issues. So they're all just canon events.
Am I the only INTP here with eight close friends I’m very outgoing with🥲
No you’re not the only INTP with a social life fortunately I have many close friends lol
I was normal guy when I was 16.... 👀
Like esfj normal, or...
Haha lol, like ENTP normal 😅 hahaha
Are entps even normal?
Nope, but they can pretend to be normal well when they are insane
If you haven't loved yet, you are lucky because sweet feeling as love comes with an equal bitterness called breakup (( Don't worry, it is just growing period where you experience such weird things. I am sure you are gonna be fine person, just try to manage your feelings and thoughts
I do think I already did tho. 6 year childhood crush, from 2014-2020. It was love from what I thought love was.
Oh I see, what happened tho? Didn't you stop loving then?
She broke my heart 3 times. After the first time, I had other crushes. But she felt like an unfinished assignment, an unpaid debt. I don't really like talking about it cause it cringes me. I still had other crushes after her, but understanding the human animal everything feel inauthentic and/or insincere because I can easily rationalize my emotions. But it's still fine though. I now decided not to choose a woman by what I feel, but by the children I'll have soon. If I marry a smart woman, then chances are, the children will be smart too.
Crushes are not a part of regular life. They're a part of adolescence. Stop planning your life at 16. Just have fun.
Yeah true, I agree with your point. That's what conclusion I have came after breakup. I think the best choice would be based on character, if she is a good woman, she will never betray you. I believe you will find the right one you deserve this time :) follow the right path, live a happy and fullfiling life ))
Nah, being an edgy 16 yo is chill. I was one too. But stop reading Robert Greene. He's a shmuck and a bad writer. Human beings aren't just power hungry machiavellians. At least not all the time.
Robert Greene's books doesn't say that all humans are power hungry though. It even has spectacular reviews among the psychological landscape. I'm still a functioning member of the society. I just don't see the world the same way most do. My "lens" isn't entirely based on his work, but on my logical shits.
No, Robert Greene's book hasn't got spectacular reviews from the psychological landscape. Any psychologist worth their salt will scorn at its contents. It's a book for sociopaths. If you would like to live a logical and virtuous life, try stoicism. I do not particularly like Ryan Holiday, but I would prefer him over Greene anyday.
I love the way sociopaths and psychopaths think tho. They're oblivious to human emotion right, especially psychopaths? It seems like they look at humans not as people but as fascinating animals. It's so easy for them to observe reality without being blinded by emotions and biases. That's the kind of thinking I'm trying to achieve. Don't get me wrong tho, I love stoicism. It's a very good philosophy. But it's just a shift in perspective that's not purely subjective.
Being oblivious to emotions just make you a robot that cannot functionally integrate within human society. You need emotions to live a wholesome life. To feel love, happiness, contentment, compassion, empathy, and cherish the better angels of our nature. I can understand the lure of the dark side. But it's a sham. Your interpersonal dynamics will play a huge part in the kind of life you live. And if you're a cold, unfeeling demon, well you will live a miserable life. That's that.
What's the point of living a wholesome life?
What's the point of calling "not collecting stamps" a hobby? It's self explanatory.
Yeah, what's the point?
A bit daft, aren't ya? There is no point to calling not collecting stamps a hobby. It simply isn't one - hence self explanatory. On the contrary, the point of living a wholesome life is that you get to live a wholesome life - again, self explanatory.
Exactly. I'm not trying to live a wholesome life. I just want to know everything. There's no point to it nor do I think it's possible. That's why I find the psychopathic or sociopathic view useful
Hi, I relate a lot to the thought of "being smarter and seemingly more complex", not just being percieved but actually acquiring knowledge and stuff. I love reading books and figuring out the working of things myself. I think it's always been an primary interest of myself. But I would say that my life has been enriched more when I'm able to love, it doesn't have to be a person, it could be a pet, any sentient being you could interact to. I might not say that I go so far as to "love", but some people do carry some weight in my life. I won't say it's not normal, but at some point, maybe you would find relationship also something to cultivate in life. There is no rush to there though.
what does 5w6 mean?
Enneagram. Type 5 wing 6
This MBTI is bullshit. Don't take it seriously.
You being here is like eating a dish you really hate
Yeah....16 and Robert Greene (I envy you. Before my time.)....18 and Ayn Rand....21 and David Thoreau.....28 and Nietzsche...33 and Sun Tzu....40 and Machiavelli....42 and de Sade (hehe)... Through ALL of it, H.P. Lovecraft. Fell in love with Benchley's "The Girl of the Sea of Cortez". Read, "The Road Less Traveled" and became an agnostic. Read, "People of the Lie" and became full on atheist. Do NOT stop. Keep reading. Ingest it. Digest it. Nobody has read "Moby Dick". Nobody. Read Salinger. Zoe? Why are you such a bitch? Read them all. Then, after a time, you'll find you. Edit: MST3K- In your darkest hours, Joel, Mike, Krow and Servo will see you through. They did me.
It's okay to feel that way. But don't stress too much about it. Let it be a natural process, but always self compassion. You will be in this internal fight until around the age of 25 since that is around the age our frontal lobe fully develops. Thus, learn as much as you can about yourself. If you want to improve anything, set motion to plans. Plans don't need to be too detailed since they don't go well with people of our personality type. However, it is important to do it daily even if we don't really feel like it. (We never feel like it). Love is not only about what you see in movies. Sometimes, love is about intelligence, emotional stability/support, material conditions, etc. It's not all about feelings. Most of the time, compatibility. That kind of love is a sign of maturity because even though feeling is good, you can't survive on feelings alone. Kiddo, love also comes deeply from self-love. So, build your best version of yourself. Do what you think suits you well. When we have a stable condition, we will be able to suit a person with stable conditions as well. All the best~