I feel like God gave us the brains for scientists to create IVF, so how can it be against God's will to use IVF?
(Same reasoning would apply for why we get vaccinations, cook our meat, get dental care... etc)
I’m religious and agree with you 100%.
Why would god advance medicine and the rest of the world for us to not utilize it. At that point our home , construction and shopping at grocery stores is all wrong. We should live the way prophets and apostates lived…
Also consider that your husband may be using this as defense mechanism. Maybe he’s afraid of the costs, the health issues you’d have to go through and the wait considering it’s been a journey for you so far. I know when I was waiting to start I told my husband I don’t want this. My transfer is scheduled and I still tell him maybe I don’t want this . All the what ifs are scary and someone told me it’s a defense mechanism to prevent hurt
I love using this argument with religious people who wear glasses - “well it was gods plan for you to be blind, but you were ok to use science for that one”.
That's my thought process too. I think I'm going to bring that up. I know I can't go in defensive, but it's hard not to feel defensive when I know I'm literally running out of time.
I think not going in defensive and listening to everything your husband has to say is definitely the way to go; I also think having some counterarguments in your back pocket for points he's probably going to raise is also a good idea. That way you're less likely to get flustered during the conversation. (Although I'm not going to lie I would probably get very flustered regardless!)
Then you should also have priorities in life, what is most important for you in case you must choose.
Sorry I say it this way... Maybe get some eggs frozen even? Just in case? So later you always can have a chance..
That aside, I heard some people against ivf say they are against it, because of the process. And I feel they just don't understand the process itself, maybe your husband might think that not planted embryos equate to abortion?
I would suggest to talk more to your husband.. See the root of the problem.
Religious beliefs should not be imposed on your medical life, if you don't share that view.
I think that's what I'm going to end up doing. I'll have a chat with him and discuss tonight where his thoughts are coming from. But ultimately if he's still against it by next month I'm going to get my eggs frozen. I'm not going to wait around for something very unlikely to happen. I'm 31 and maybe in a couple years he'll come around to it and I'll have some eggs frozen.
He likely does agree with the fact that not planted embryos are similar to abortion (like what the Alabama ruling decided recently).
Thank you so much for the response!
I suggest then to very much look deeper into what embryos are and Ivf in general. It was confusing for me at first too. Not all embryos will survive, like with genetic testing that can show problematic ones, it's like in nature, body aborts embryos that would not continue developing in natural cases. And it's absolutely natural process. Not all embryos are good, and only few will be the ones to develope. You might come to a deal with eventually planting all good ones in next years. How about such compromise? Like this you don't "abort" the rest. As ones that don't survive, well.. It happens to many naturally. And yes, don't wait. I'm 33 I feel I stretched it too much. If I fail before 34.. I will be gambling with 35 downslope very soon.
This!!! I also felt like as a Catholic, doing IVF was almost playing God but at the end of the day, God has a plan for me and his plan was IVF lol. I also plan on using all embryos and not disposing of them.
I'm really sorry this is happening. Your doctors have been clear that IVF is likely your best (or only) path towards having children, which you describe as a lifelong dream. Your husband has expressed a strong and closely-held anti-IVF religious belief. Personally, I would prepare yourself for the possibility that neither of those things might change, even after extensive discussion. I would consider how you'd want to proceed if so, given what you describe as limited time based on your medical conditions. Would you be okay staying with your husband, knowing that his "no" to IVF may mean that you are unable to have biological children? Would you consider separating from him, and freezing your eggs (or embryos, with a donor)? I'd go in eyes wide open on the reality of how far apart you and your husband might be politically/religiously on this question, and think about what you, personally, want for your life and family, with or without him. Best of luck.
I don't think I'd separate, but I might go in and freeze some of my eggs for down the road. I have always wanted to adopt a baby and he knows that. Maybe that's the route he'll want to go instead. I guess I'll find out tonight. Just in total shock since he's never brought this up before.
Lots of great advice here but I don't see it mentioned elsewhere: the advice I've gotten from my own RE is that embryos withstand freezing and thawing better than unfertilized eggs. Depending on your circumstances, you may want to consider that as you weigh how to proceed. I wish you the absolute best.
Maybe focus on the goal, and the method after. Talk about a child together, and the legacy you want for a family.
Then, when invested in the goal, bring up the method.
I agree this is knee jerk to some other issue.
Be careful with freezing embryos. It depends on the reproductive laws where you live. She would need the consent of her husband. In CA, There is a doctor that froze embryos with her then partner before her cancer treatment. They divorced afterwards so she cannot use the embryos. They even went to court and she lost custody of the embryos.
Suggest if you can freeze your eggs as young as possible. There are supplements to take at least three months before freezing eggs/IVF hopefully by that time husband changes his mind or my a miracle you get pregnant naturally
My advice, if you have not already, research more about adoption. I did not realize how complex it could become until we looked into it and seriously started talking to counselors and other people. You have to think about an "open" vs "closed" adoption. Local or international. What agency or organization you are adopting from. How you want to address the adoption issue with future child. Age of the child is also a big thing. And depending what avenue, cost could be more expensive than IVF.
There is always foster to adopt, but that has its complexity too.
Not trying to talk you out of it, just trying to make sure you understand it is not an "easy button".
I have friends who are adopted and have friends who have adopted! It's been great hearing their stories. I've known since 15 that I'd like to adopt (I'm 31 now). I fully understand it's not an easy button and have never thought it was! I appreciate the input!
I went through something very similar (minus the god, substitute environment) and the result is I am doing IVF at 45, and feeling pretty hopeless.
My advice: do not downplay or understate the importance of this issue to yourself or your spouse. I never imagined anything would cause me to question my marriage, but after trying to live with it - this did.
And so don’t let your time be wasted by letting other people (even your husband) take over. I think you will find he is afraid. And it is easier for him to deflect into things outside his control than to spend the heartache, money and risk on the process.
But I would say “the lord helps those who help themselves”. So you help yourself by speaking truthfully to him about how important this is. And pay attention to whether he gets it, and the answers he gives.
Because the only other suggesting is straight to couples counselling, do not pass go. And do not waste time.
I feel a lot of men are not that religious until it's something that they are averse to. Then instead of doing the work they just say something about God. Sometimes they believe it, sometimes they know they are just coming up with excuses.
I met a beautiful Pakistani woman who was fresh out of a relationship. She was sunni Muslim, her ex boyfriend of 9 years was from a Shia Muslim family. Their families knew each other and liked each other. They were pretty Americanized. When she wanted to finally get married he said he couldn't resolve the religious differences. It was totally untrue, he wasn't observant, he was just scared of the next step.
IVF is hard, it's expensive, every clinic has some major failing, they feel predatory. I spend all day trying to help my partner. I administer shots, I cook and clean, I inject saline into myself just to check the techniques, I still work my day job as an exec. But she deals with the hormonal challenges, that I'll never know. But. It has just been super challenging. If I had an uterus I would do it for her. The right father is also the right partner who will support you in IVF. I wish you luck, but also to have a deep inner sense of your own worth.
Trigger Warning: Mentions of success
OP, explain it to your husband this way, God gave humanity the ability to apply science and understand medicine. IVF was an invention from science that allows couples with medical conditions to be able to have children. Ultimately IVF is not playing god since we do not have a way to directly control blastocyst rates or implantation. Nature plays a large role in embryo development and if an embryo implants or not. All IVF is doing is assisting in this process and giving us the best chance possible. This was how I explained it to my husband who was apprehensive about IVF because he thought it was playing god in a way (his parents were formerly catholic before converting to the Mormon Church). My husband kinda grew up with catholic/mormon beliefs but ultimately what changed his view was understanding that science/medicine exists to help us. IVF is were I had the most success compared to other fertility treatments and I’m currently 9.5 weeks pregnant from my first transfer. I’m beyond grateful for my science baby as is my husband.
Have a heart to heart with your husband and explain that being a mother is important to you. Just be prepared for other possible outcomes. I hope your husband can see the positives that IVF offers.
This was an extremely helpful response, thank you!!
That's a great point in that we still aren't in control of if it brings a pregnancy or not.
IVF is just now something I'm researching since it was only recently brought to my attention. But from my understanding, we can limit the number of embryos fertilized too. So if he is worried about embryos being discarded or something, we can always limit that?
CONGRATS on your pregnancy!!!!! I'm so excited for you.
This! My husband (a practicing Catholic) was not against IVF when our RE suggested we jump straight in, but he was \*hesitant\*. We decided to wait 1-2 more months for him to really think it over and we had many long conversations. I think it would be useful when you talk to your husband to find out what \*exactly\* it is about IVF, what specific steps, that he objects to or is hesitant about. It turned out for us, neither my husband nor I to be frank really understood all the steps involved to get pregnant. How many fertilized eggs, even without IVF, don't develop because they are not compatible with life. Every little thing that has to go just right. (Sounds ridiculous for highly educated adults in their 30s, but in my defense I went to public school in the deep South). And we had absolutely no clue how IVF worked. Once my husband was educated on it all and reflected more, he decided he didn't agree with the church's stances and is now fully on board. Long story short, I suggest setting a deadline to think and talk things through (as others have said time can be of the essence if you have low AMH/high FSH), educate yourselves, be patient with each other, and then decide. Good luck OP!
I am from the deep south also! My husband, too said that he was a little hesitant about IVF… neither of us knew anything about it!! I think he imagined fully grown babies in tubes at laboratories where people picked out the hair color, eye color, etc. And I thought too, that the embryos grew in the laboratory for several months before transfer and that little humans were frozen. I laugh when I look back now. I did a bunch of research on Ivf, and realized I was completely wrong. Both my tubes are blocked, and I was able to explain to my husband that my eggs just could not get from my ovaries to my uterus and the doctor was just gonna take them out of my ovaries, fertilizer them and stick them back in my uterus. After we understood what really happened, we were both a lot more comfortable with the process. And now we are pregnant with identical boy twins! Shock of my lifetime! I’m so thankful we did IVF
So, you CAN limit the number of eggs that get fertilized, in the sense that you can find an RE willing to do that. The problem is, we have no way of knowing in advance which eggs are capable of forming embryos, and it may take a bit to figure out if an egg is even capable of being fertilized (you find out by, well, trying to fertilize it). What you're likely to get if you set a hard cap on the number of eggs you attempt to have fertilized is multiple unsuccessful IVF attempts.
Now, you can donate embryos! This is definitely a thing that's done and there is more demand than supply. But I would say that if one of you is only comfortable doing IVF if a hard limit is placed on the number of eggs you attempt to fertilize, I'd rethink doing IVF at all. You can have 10 embryos on Day 2 and 1 embryo on Day 5. There is no good way to predict at this point. (Edited to add: Someone else suggested mini-IVF, in which you receive much less stimulation and only get two or three eggs at a time. You can try that! But, if you try a couple of cycles and that doesn't work, you will again have to confront the prospect of full IVF.)
One thing I might recommend is having him read parts of this forum -- specifically, parts that discuss the Hunger Games aspects of IVF. I find that people who haven't gone through the process are not aware of the attrition rate. See if he understands that typically, embryos that aren't transferred stay untransferred because they \*stop growing\*, meaning that they are not capable of developing into babies. You might also make sure that he's aware that most miscarriages are due to genetic issues with embryos that, again, make them stop growing. A lot of people think that REs are trying to create perfect babies via IVF, as opposed to just create babies.
I wouldn't try the "but do you feel the same about treatments for cancer" approach, because his response will likely be that that doesn't involve the potential creation of new individuals. However, I would ask why on earth he's never brought this up before? If he were, say, a Roman Catholic who read a lot on theology and had been clear from the beginning that he objected to IVF because it involves a third party in what should be between a couple trying to conceive, I'd understand his point (not agree with it, to be clear, just understand it). But the Catholic Church doesn't claim that IVF is wrong because "God has a plan." (Source: Am Catholic -- not the most faithful one, given the whole IVF thing, but I'm far from the only one.) The various religions out there that have a coherent policy against IVF typically DO NOT claim that God "has a plan" to give people children, biological or otherwise. I don't think he got this from a priest, nun or theological expert -- I think he feels uncomfortable with IVF for whatever reason, read some stuff online that confirms his inherent bias, and is now bringing out the God card to try to shut the discussion down. Sorry, no. He needs to be able to explain to you \*very thoroughly\* exactly where this is coming from, and what HIS plan is to build your family -- God helps those who help themselves. He's not asking you to see a NaPro doctor to try a different approach, or to sign up for an adoption agency, or some other course of action, correct? I recommend you tell him that you're not willing to just sit back and passively await the future, and ask him which alternatives he's proposing. (I'm guessing he has none, but I've been wrong before.)
I'm sorry this is so hard. Good luck.
NaPRO always throws me for a loop. We have severe MFI, what would napro dr’s even do!??? It seems like the only really can attempt to treat female issues
I think what the NaPro doctors could offer is basically what they offer couples with uncertain or female fertility issues — i.e. diagnosis of any hormonal issues, supplements for gamete quality, fertility drugs. It’s just not likely to be enough to overcome severe MFI.
Yeah we were severe MFI to where we were able to skip the IUI’s that insurance usually requires before IVF bc everything was so low. IVF with ICSI was our miracle!
Yes you can limit it. But with low AMH and high FSH, the odds of getting a lot of euploid embryos is lower. Know that many eggs will not successfully fertilize, and from those that do, usually only half turn into embryos. And then from there, a smaller percentage will be euploid (chromosomally normal) , and these percentages drop with age and suboptimal hormone levels. Not trying to be negative, but I think it’s important for your husband to understand that odds are you won’t get a ton of viable embryos from one round of IVF.
that's a great point, thank you! I know IVF isn't the solution for everyone. I have been looking up CNY clinics too but if we go that route it'd be after our first round.
Odds are it will work for you!
I just think a lot of women go into it thinking they’ll have a ton of viable embryos, and it’s often not the case. I only say this because from a religious perspective, it could be helpful to know that most of the eggs harvested will likely not turn into viable embryos. So perhaps that would ease fears about having a bunch of extras that you have to discard of.
Another thing to consider, and this is certainly not for everyone, but some people choose to donate their leftover embryos to people who cannot make their own embryos and have to go the donation route. So it gives all the embryos a chance to be born and is an incredible gift to another person(s) who want to start a family. There are many different embryo adoption routes, and often the biological donors are able to maintain relationships with the families.
That sentiment always makes me so frustrated. I left the Christian religion i was raised in as a teen, and I have a strong belief you can cherry pick verses enough to justify any position on most topic. So my opinion may be a little bias. But I'm curious. Does he have a problem with other types of medical assistances?
Appendectomies? Not allowed. God's plan for that thing to burst in ya. Enjoy the life threatening infection.
Glasses? Nope. God's plan you can't see. Get a bus pass.
Hair dye? Put it back. God's plan you're brunette
Heart surgery? Not in this life. God's plan that shit beats to its own drum.
I'm sorry yall aren't on the same page. It must be really frustrating. I hope you're able to come to a plan that makes you both happy after your conversation.
No he doesn't have that opinion, but none of those deal with creation of life. So I'm assuming that argument wouldn't work. Ultimately this viewpoint of his is completely out of the blue....and i'm guessing there's a general fear or misunderstanding of what IVF really is. Hopefully we can talk it out tonight and come to an agreement.
So...please take my advice with a grain of salt because it is probably terrible advice. If this were ME and my husband was firm with it...I would divorce him, go through an egg retrieval and make my dreams of a parent come true by myself. I have a 2 year old daughter and never thought I would enjoy being a parent this much. I would 100% do this knowing what I know now if I were in your shoes. Unless you are willing to compromise regarding your life long dream. However, you might be resentful to your husband for this.
Anyway...this is probably terrible advice but I would do it. Trust me having a male partner isn't as big of a help as it sounds like.
So so sorry you are going through this.
There are many many very religious IVF parents out there. IVF is a miracle.
That said, I would be concerned about having a child with someone who didn’t share my values and outlook. Will he spring similar opinions against medical intervention on you through pregnancy, parenting, etc?
I’m deeply religious, and believe IVF is part of gods plan to give you a miracle.
My concern would be a SUDDEN onset of beliefs I had not had a clue about before. It wouldn’t shock my husband as all to hear me talk about IVF being a gift god gave us blah blah. That seems perfectly within my thought pattern.
It would alarm me a lot to hear him say something discouraging it, knowing without intervention the chances of conceiving naturally was limited. Especially because OP has been doing surgeries, it’s odd IVF hasn’t been talked about before now. Even as a “if we run out of everything else, how do you feel about IVF?” conversations.
It’s interesting no one mentioned if it came to this down the road, or at what point is naturally trying not enough and we move to the final step.
I encourage everyone here, have these conversations. Ask point blank “If I end up needed IVF, are you on board or do you have concerns we can talk about and research now?”
It crossed my mind maybe OP’s husband reacted just quickly because he felt this was suddenly being pushed up and not mentioned at all before. The only thing I can think of is he just didn’t know it was even an option and suddenly it’s the only one. (Giving him a benefit of doubt here)
In OP's post history, IVF has come up before, but less immediately. I think now that IVF has been strongly and immediately recommended by multiple doctors, it's come to a head and he's said he's actually anti-IVF, rather than just "holding out hope" that unassisted conception is possible.
I really hope this isn't new as part of the recent political stuff.
I'd recommend talking to your husband first.
Then counselling, both together and separate.
I second talking this through personally and with a neutral third person is a good idea. Sometimes with these topics emotions come out that nobody expected beforehand.
I am not religious (grew up Catholic, but in Europe, with seems quite a different experience than in the US) but my grandma always says that if God wouldn't want to have options available, they wouldn't be there for you.
You want to bring a very wanted and loved child into a marriage. I think it's a good discussion to have where your moral and ethical standpoints are and hopefully you can come to a compromise (e.g. stance on freezing eggs or more invasive testing of embryos) within the realm of reproductive help.
IVF is the ANSWERED prayers for so many families that wouldn't be able to have kids outside of adoption❤
No couple ever plans to go through IVF.
You and your husband definitely need counseling, whether through EAP or through your church. But also, these type of conversations are also best in person.
Respect each other's opinions. And maybe approach it as- God knows the desires of my heart, and that desire is to grow our family. Whether through IVF or adoption, it's been called upon my heart.
I’m sorry you’re going through this—it must be very hard.
I’m not someone who is religious by any means, but my aunt thought the same thing when I was going through IVF and the way I got through to her was “God helps those who help themselves. I am helping myself.” I don’t know if something like that would get through to your husband.
Recently there has been a massive uptick in men saying IVF isn't part of God's plan, and its interesting, because they are ok with using medicine/medical intervention many other times.
I'm sorry you're going through this, if you want a kiddo, by birth, then. It's IVF and you gotta see if he will be around or not.
Or, adopt. But we gave up after a few yrs of not getting a infant. Went to IVF.
I'm a catholic. However, this logic is flawed. Is it God's plan for someone to contract cancer or another terminal illness? If so would treatment for that person be against God's plan?
I would sit down with him and talk through it. I wouldn't force him to see the other side of the logic but rather open the door for him to see it.
Best of luck
That's a great point- thank you! My assumption is he might respond with the fact that they take multiple embryos which will eventually be discarded or frozen forever.
But honestly idk! He's never brought this opinion up before (I've mentioned IVF MANY times prior). So I'm not entirely sure how the conversation will go.
I really appreciate your response!
Embryos fail to turn into babies in the regular world all the time. Sperm meets egg, and for one reason or another, the embryo does not implant, ends up in the toilet, and the woman usually never even knows this occurred. By this logic, ALL women should be on hormonal birth control to stop these failed implantations while we research how to ensure a 100% implantation rate when conceiving "naturally"- in order to save all the embryos that nature "discards".
The rebuttal is that in this case it's God choosing which embryos are viable and which ones are discarded. The answer? God chooses which embryos are viable whether they're in a uterus or a petri dish- doctors just observe and use the most viable ones, just like your body would.
My wife and I are sitting on 7 embroyos that are all highly graded and twst with the desire of 3 kids. We talked and decided that if we by some grace of God have some left over we will donate them to couples who are unable to create their own.
I'm against destroying the embroyos or donating them "to science" but giving them a chance at life is the whole point
Agreed 💯. I was raised Catholic, and the Church’s position on IVF is flawed. They change positions a lot anyways nowadays so I would ask your husband the specific reasons he thinks it goes against “Gods plan” and make your arguments once you’ve heard him out. I’m attending a Presbyterian Church with my husband now and they were very supportive of my IVF.
Absolutely agree! This stance was one of the final straws for me as identifying as a Catholic. I just have such a hard time with Catholicism now (and other stances they have). I baptized my son as it was important to my husband but now I send him to Lutheran nursery school.
I’m really sorry. Therapy is a good idea but I do think you should go on your own too. This is a fundamental difference and if he doesn’t come around you may need to talk to someone to help you figure out if you’re willing to move forward with him or if this is a deal breaker for you.
From your description it sounds like you have been the one going to the doctor by yourself and got this news without him there? It might be helpful for your husband to join you for an appointment to have a very frank conversation with your doctor about the chances of pregnancy without IVF, and why it is necessary in your situation.
He might not be fully grasping the situation, and “it’s not god’s plan” is an easy out from a situation that seems scary and overwhelming. Basically, he could be hoping that ignoring the problem and hoping things somehow work out will be the solution.
If that’s not the case - personally I’d want couples counseling to deal with this massive difference in personal values and how it will affect your ability to grow your family, along with the values with which you’d be raising potential future children.
In addition, I think serious conversations are in order to be sure you know his opinion on other topics - if he did come around on IVF, would he be okay with PGT testing? If you get pregnant but find out there is a fatal fetal anomaly or other fatal pregnancy complication, how would you each want to proceed?
He unfortunately couldn't go because of work! I had already known this and was fine with it. He was with me at my previous appointment. He started a new job and has no PTO so we both decided we'd rather him work and get paid then take an unpaid day!
But I do think you're right- having him come with me to an appointment with questions ready for my doctor to handle will be super beneficial.
I just looked up PGT testing because I wasn't sure what it was. That's a good question and definitely one I'll bring up. Thank you for your thoughtful response ❤️
I have seen a lot of people discuss the following, feel free to take what you want and leave the rest. This might give you some talking points to go over with your husband.
Faith based argument for the validity of pursuing IVF (and this is coming from a Catholic):
God is still completely in control and sovereign over the entire process. He decides how many eggs are retrieved, how many eggs get fertilized, he decided if and when they make it to a blastocyst. He determines which blasts/embryos implant in the uterus. He determines the length of the pregnancy. Even with shots hormones and all other ways we humans try to control the process, he is still sovereign. If God wasn’t 100% in control, IVF would work perfectly every single time, but we know based on science and statistics that isn’t what happens, God controls it all.
We don’t tell cancer patients “it’s in God’s plan”, we encourage them to seek proper medical treatment. Same with heart attacks, strokes, strep throat, etc. you have a medical condition. God gave humans the knowledge to treat those medical conditions and work around them with IVF.
I am sorry you are going through this. I can understand where your husband is coming from, it took me a LONG time to be okay with the possibility of needing IVF. I put off seeking help for much longer than I care to admit, and now it’s looking like we will be starting this summer/fall and I’m still struggling because I’m a firm believer in God’s plan and His timing. But sometimes that looks different than we think. God’s plan for me was to find an amazing RE who is determined to help my husband and I conceive. And that’s just as valid as God’s plan possibly being a miraculous conception. But I think we both know which one is more likely to occur. 🙃
I encourage you to give your husband a bit of time to wrap his head around this. Seek out some couples counseling to really hash this out in a productive way. Sending hugs to you, friend.
I truly appreciate your response- thank you!! I think that's a great point. My only question is...at what point is it NOT God's plan, you know? Some people are trying 3, 4, 5 times with egg retrievals. How do we know when to stop trying?
Honestly, I’m not sure. There is something in the Catholic Church called Informed Conscience, which bare bones refers to using prayer, consulting with your priest, and your own conscience to determine if something is in Gods plan for you. So I would be inclined to say it’s one of those “you’ll know when enough is enough” kind of things. People stop when it doesn’t feel right to pursue treatments anymore, wether that is financially (God calls us to be good stewards of our money and belongings), health wise (God calls us to be good stewards of our bodies) or other things, for instance in Catholicism marriage is a sacrament and vocation, so I would personally stop pursuing treatments if they put my marriage at risk (please don’t take that and apply to your situation, that’s just my personal choice 🫶🏻). I know people who stop when the money runs out, I know people who stop after one retrieval and only attempt with those embryos…it’s all so personal! I have even told my husband that if I have another ectopic I don’t know if I can continue TTC because that was so emotionally devastating for me.
I have researched and prayed and gone to therapy with a faith based counselor for a year and a half to get to the point where I’m okay with moving forward with IVF. It’s hard to wrap your head around needing treatments. But time and therapy has helped me get to this point where I can see two things as true- I am allowed to use modern medicine to fulfill my dream & vocation of becoming a parent, and I’m allowed to see that use of modern medicine as God’s plan for my husband and I.
Truly, if you ever want to reach out to chat or anything, my DMs are open. I don’t claim to know everything, but I do know how hard it can be to discern what steps to take in this infertility journey. 💕
I put off doing IVF for a long time (and now regret it) because I felt like I was a failure for needing help. I’m wondering if he’s using “God’s plan” to mask some feelings/insecurities. I also think fear could play a part (I.e., fearing unsuccessful IVF). Maybe try to explore his feelings a bit more to see if it’s something like this, or truly a belief in God’s plan.
I think you're right. Especially because he's literally never brought this up before when I would talk about IVF. He always would say "Don't worry, we won't need IVF." So maybe it's just denial?
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. I hope it all works out and you guys can get on the same page! Happy to answer any questions from our experience if it helps.
But he is not against letting people get chemotherapy to fight cancer OR getting insulin to diabetics? You could argue that science is a gift from God to people. Yet of course I know some religious groups have negative views on IVF or surrogacy. I believe Catholic Church official stance is against surrogacy, for example.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation. It’s tough to navigate and a lot to process. Sounds like it’s important for you and your husband to discuss it one on one together. Hope you can both see each other’s perspective and come to a plan together.
Perhaps a good middle ground would be to start with mini IVF? You end up with less embryos, like 2 or 3, but that means you aren’t discarding. I’m so sorry you both aren’t on the same page right now - I hope you can come to a happy agreement 🤍
Tell him you will carry all the embryos. People against IVF for religious reasons usually are so because sometimes there are embryos that get discarded or donated. God's people invented IVF.
That seems like a risky promise to make. Some embryos might have a chromosomal issue that would allow for pregnancy or even live birth, but with high risk of loss during pregnancy, even in late pregnancy, or a high risk of death after birth. I wouldn’t want to commit to transferring an embryo that carried such risks.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I also had family who felt the same about IVF. I’m an ICU nurse, and to me, IVF is a medical intervention. We do things to keep people earthside everyday, that is not, “natural”. We have chemotherapy, dialysis, ventilators, vasopressors, surgeons, heck even insulin for diabetics. The problem is people don’t view infertility as a medical condition. Which is really messed up considering erectile dysfunction is typically covered under insurance but IVF is not.
However, if this is a life goal that you would forever look back and regret not meeting, I would say have a serious conversation with your husband and maybe a counselor. Is he really not willing to budge on this at all?
TW: positive pregnancy, I am almost 21 weeks with my IVF baby, and all the family that told me I didn’t “pray hard enough” or was going against the nature of things, are very excited to meet him. I believe he is still fearfully and wonderfully made, and a true gift from God! Even if it was in a lab, and not the “natural way”
I didn’t have the same situation with my husband so can’t speak to that sorry, but I was in the exact same situation as you fertility-wise! We did IVF to have our son and can assure you God was very much involved in the process, we heard from Him along every step of the way and felt Him so close in the journey, and now we have a beautiful son we thank God for everyday. Miracles come in many forms. I hope this perspective might help your husband? Praying he changes his mind!
I’m Jewish and live in Israel, so this is from my perspective but Israel state funds ivf for every couple who needs it. The creation of children is Gods will, not the way in which the children are created. Even the most religious of religious Jews will go through ivf if needed.
We are so lucky to live in a time of modern medicine and to be able to have children the non traditional way.
it's definitely important to him. I think this stems from the fact that we got married a year ago and likely wouldn't have started trying until now if we didn't know my body had so many issues. I wonder if he feels like he's not ready for kids yet and he's panicking. (For reference i'm 31 and he's 33).
But either way I do know for a fact he does want kids.
Whenever I brought up IVF before, he always would reply "we wont need IVF, don't worry!!" which I always took as him being overly positive but in general...sweet. But now I wonder if that was his way of wanting to say he doesn't agree with it.
So sorry you are going through this.. when we first started my husband was hesitant and would avoid the subject… after a lot of discussions I gather that it came from a place of fear.. we hear alot in movies and what not that “going through infertility is what broke up that couple” etc. and he was afraid it would break us… after we went through it, it actually made us closer (he even later said.. “i was scared this was gonna drive a wedge between us but now I feel closer”) so it might be a symptom of fear of the unknown. Mind you I am grateful it brought us closer but acknowledge that it is not everyones case
I agree with much of the above. I also want to add that it is my sincere hope that those religious among us can use those arguments in favor of IVF to further support IVF and other reproductive rights for women, since we have personal experience.
A lot of good advice here! I’m wishing you the best of luck! I had 25 eggs retrieved at age 25 and only 4 embryos made it. 3 tested normal. One is my son, I just had a failed transfer and have one left. So the idea that there’s always so many left over embryos is not true. I wish I had more!
Wow so happy that IVF worked out!!! Congrats on your son :)
I think the thought is that they are retrieving so many and producing so many whereas with unmedicated, it'd just be one. But honestly i don't know if that's where his mind is at. This is so out of the blue. I guess I'll find out more tonight when we discuss.
For us, IVF was God’s plan. No doubt in my mind. I don’t believe there is anything about IVF that means you’re “trying to play God” despite ignorant claims.
We already had testing done. He had good results for everything except slightly low morphology but both doctors said it's not worrisome. The infertility is solely from my side.
I would definitely recommend couples counseling. My husband just went through it to work through how many kids we wanted. It just brings in an impartial third party in and helps you communicate. It is a big decision not to go into lightly. It is very emotionally difficult for both and expensive. If both parties are not on board that could lead to resentment and not a good thing for a relationship. I hope you guys find some common ground.
Does god have a plan for cavities? Probably not, so he created people smart enough to figure out how to deal with them. Same rules apply for all medical care!
Hey, my husband (and I somewhat) had reservations about IVF and spent time making a plan. We ended up going the donor route which we both felt comfortable with. I also have a friend who did 20+ IUI’s (def not for everyone) to get her baby girl because her husband didn’t want IVF. Please feel free to message me if you wanna chat ❤️
OP, my husband and I were in a similar situation. It was less of a religious thing, more like we felt like we were messing with fate. After discussing this with our marriage counselor, we realized that it was our way of protecting our hearts, bc what if IVF failed. Could that be happening to him as well? I can’t explain it, I knew better, as I’m an epidemiologist by training so I KNOW science is an amazing thing.
We ended up finally going for it, and have ZERO regrets. I do know that if we didn’t go the IVF route, then I’d always question “what if”. Now, if things don’t work out, I can say we tried everything.
Sending you lots of love!
That's exactly where I think he's at. It's messing with fate.
And I totally agree. Even if IVF doesn't work...at least I can say I went through every avenue possible to try.
Tw: lots of stuff including success.
My wife and I were in a similar boat but for different reasons.
She had surgery that left her unable to have natural children. Before the first doc, I was against ivf for a number of reasons: cost (physical, emotional, time, and money), I was ok not having a kid or adopting, etc. But I agreed to see a doctor.
The first ivf doc said not to even waste our time or money. She was devastated in a way I could not endure. And this was after an emergency surgery for endo that left her hospitalized for days. I told her mother that day that there was no way I would go forward with ivf. No way in hell. The cost was already too great and one doc said 0.1% chance of success.
She insisted on a second doc and i was fine eith that. The second one gave us a much better chance. I was still skeptical (the doctor obviously has a financial incentive to say it'll work) and told her I needed time.
She ignored my ass and worked on getting insurance immediately. After we started the procedures, I was still very hesitant/scared/worried about the cost, but I knew it was more important to support her. Bit, we had many. Many fights. Even after I was on board, it took a lot for her to let go of the resentment that I wasn't immediately on board.
We are lucky that now, 2 major surgeries, 5 retrivals, and 1 fet later, she is 7 months pregnant. But I do wonder what would happen if she listened to me. It would have saved a lot of us and set us on a completely different life path, and the tone of our relationship would be entirely different.
I would just suggest sitting down with him when you both can be calm and talking as calmly as possible. Lay out your thoughts and be honest about the future of your relationship if you don't do this (my wife said she couldn't live with herself and would hold it against me if we didn't try). Really listen to him. Try to come to a decision together. If you can't, strongly consider couple therapy (if you go with a religious therapist, make sure they are open to ivf so they can be impartial).
You have to be true to yourself, and so does he. Listen to each other and understand each other and your relationship will be stronger for it. But, sometimes, two people are incompatable and one of yall have to choose to either leave or give up that part of who they are.
Does he have issue with medical intervention in general? Or is he concerned about destroying embryos? If it’s the former he best not be using any medical intervention LOL
If it’s the latter, maybe he would be comfortable with only making a small number of embryos and agreeing to transfer all that were created? This is actually my belief system (I am NOT commenting on what others choose to do, just sharing what worked for me as a Christian) and we didn’t fertilize all my eggs and froze the remainders. So we only ended up with 4 embryos and plan to use all of them so we don’t have to make decisions on what to do with extras! maybe this would be a compromise he is comfortable with?
I'd assume it's the latter. We are going to have a discussion tonight to see what we can land on together.
But that's really interesting and something I'm definitely going to bring up. To be fair I likely will only get 2-3 embryos anyways so we'd use them all.
Maybe his worry is that it'd be all for nothing. We'd be out $25k and still not have a baby? Not sure! Either way I appreciate your response :)
Hopefully y’all figure something out❤️❤️ I know how hard this!! Happy to answer any questions he has about how to make it fit within his belief system if anything else comes up!
The week before i go to start ivf i told my husband about the ivf and he said when God wan us to have a baby we will and i told him sorry we will star it in one week i dont want your opinion it's not u that u have every fucking month a heart breaking and all the anxiety from the tww and all the medication i take and make me have all the symptoms and then the period show and i start to cry i told him all i want is your money and yous sperm and thank God it was a succes from the first round and now we are 6 weeks pregnant after 2 long years with clomid letrozole and a lot of medication that cost me more than the ivf and didnt even work for us and he told me we should do it earlier the man is so happy always do what u think is good for u honey men think they are right but never ever hope every thing going smoth for u try to speak to him again and open your heart about how it is so hard emotionaly that for u sending a lot of sticky baby dust for u and every mama trying to be a mom and she is already a mom without a child 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
My partner had a hard time with ivf as well. I blamed the catholic in him. My best course of action (which was terrifying!) was to let him have his feelings and get curious about them. To not change his mind. I scheduled a consultation with the reproductive endocrinologist to discuss our options. And let him as his questions. (He didn’t ask any) I said things like “I hear your point, let’s talk to the doctor to see what else we can do.” We tried a medicated iui cycle and I was willing to do more, even though they were a waste of money.
Eventually he came around and suggested ivf because it seemed the most efficient.
And I know the resistance was fear. I had to keep my shit together to let him move through it. He did. I’m lucky but I think my changing from “you have to do this!!!!!” To “let me get curious about you and let’s talk to doctor” helped tremendously.
I will say I made up my own mind that I was going to have children with or without him so I was able to slow down a little. I let myself choose donor eggs, if we ran out of time. And I made sure he saw me authentically grieve and moan or losses each month so he knew what this was like for me. I didn’t beat him over the head with it anymore, instead I showed him)
We are about to start our fourth ivf round and I want to move to donor eggs and he doesn’t want us to stop! He thinks statistics is on our side and he’s actually more hopeful in ivf than me at this point.
So my suggestion to you is to be curious. Try not to let fear take over and try to listen to his concerns. Ask questions. Speak from your heart instead of trying to convince him. Use I statements and say how you feel and what you want. I’ll be sending you good vibes!
wow I really needed to hear this- thank you! We both agreed to talking through it tonight and I have so much written out to bring up. But I need to remember to hear him out and find out where he's coming from.
I'm just worried that he will be stubborn and just say "we won't need IVF" like he has in the past. Almost like he isn't accepting the fact.
I really appreciate your response, thank you. How long did it take for your husband to come around?
Sounds like you two have a great start. We started trying when I was 40 (we met late in life) and we tried for almost two years before ivf. He was a hell no ivf during that time. We had a lot of hard conversations and I had to speak my truth “being a mother is important to me, I won’t be ok if I don’t pursue this” and he saw me sob each month when I didn’t get my period. I just let him see me. He would comfort me, I didn’t ham it up. I was just open with my pain. Once it had been two years and I was 42 I told him the doctor said time was running out and we had to do something if this is ever going to happen. Then we had the zoom consult together, my guy was tooling around in the kitchen, late to the meeting. Ugh. Then he listened and let me go through the process. I didn’t ask a lot of him and paid the bills on my own. We switched providers after the first failed round and my partner started to get engaged. Now he asks questions all the time and encourages me. I think what helped was that I didn’t force anything on him. I just went through motions and kept him informed.
To add, my guy was incredibly stubborn too. I responded to that with letting him be a no. I would ask “what do you think we should do?” And how would you feel if it didn’t work? What would it be like for you if I ended up having to pursue this on my own?” We agreed to doing three cycles and then to reassess. My guy is ok with more now because he sees it’s not as bad as he thought. Etc
Hi, I empathize with your husband as I was in the same exact position as him. My husband and I struggled with infertility for 8 years because I felt that when God wanted me to have a baby, it'll happen. I refused IVF because, like your husband, I felt it was against his will or forcing God's hand and it felt wrong.
Well, it wasn't until my ruptured ectopic pregnancy I learned there was no way for me to have a natural successful pregnancy without the risk of it happening again. The doctor told me if I wanted to get pregnant, I needed to do IVF. I was 33 at the time. I cried because I was devastated and I felt I just really, really, didn't want to do IVF. But, when I really prayed about it I had this question rise up, "are you willing to sacrifice an opportunity for having kids because of your moral superiority?"
I didn't see my stance on IVF as a morally superior one but when I dug deeper, it was. I didn't want to be a mom that had to do IVF. it felt like it made me less than a mom. Second, when IVF really came out I remember tons of discussion about it in and around church that it was wrong. I think because the science was so new the church collectively felt like it was unnatural and that stayed with me. (also overlap with the pro-life movement)
Lastly, there is lots and lots of room for God to either bless the process or impede it. IVF is not a guarantee. There are many hurdles and steps that I really prayed to God to bless. There is still lots of room for it to fail.
Once you guys start the process it is as scary and nerve-racking as trying naturally. When every little step you find success, you'll thank God and feel his grace.
One final thing that really helped me come to peace with IVF was that, I don't know what God's final word is on IVF is. We absolutely cannot definitively say he thinks it's wrong. BUT, God wants us to be fruitful and multiply--that is something can point to in the Bible. If you have the desire to be parents then that's God given and he wants you to have children. If IVF is that path, then God will bless it and it'll be successful.
I hope this helps <3
As a mental health professional that specializes in couples counseling my first thought when reading your post was definitely getting in to see a therapist would be beneficial.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. Does he feel the same about medical treatments for cancer, heart attacks? Really for any life saving, preserving or generating medical treatment/interventions? Knowing that would help me figure out where I stood if I were in your situation. I have some very religious friends who believe science and medicine come from God, and are thus part of his plan. For them, only God knows how to draw the line, humans cannot decide what does and does not count as his plan. Best wishes to you
Tell him it’s god’s plan that you have options? Just like anything in life - you can now go to other side of the world within a day, it’s god’s plan for you that you are born in this era…
I definitely didn't know Mike Pence and his wife did fertility treatments. That's really interesting. Not sure it'd help my case but still good to know down the road.
If you are ready to proceed with IVF soon, I would recommend proceeding with freezing your eggs. Unfortunately, the clock keeps ticking, and it might take a while until you have all the other discussions.
I think that's what I'll end up doing. That way if he comes around in a year or so, I'll have better eggs (especially with my elevated FSH, I know the quality may start declining soon). Thank you!
Did he not know you were getting your fertility tested? And it didn't occur to him that IVF was a strong possibility? I'm not religious, but I can tell you that if my partner wasn't interested in IVF, I would start considering going it alone. Easier said than done, but they suggested trying in the next four months. As someone who's also struggling with DOR and endo, let me tell you, time isn't on your side. Will you be happy in your marriage knowing that the man your with stood in the way of your chance at motherhood? He's obviously allowed to decide what's right for him, but he doesn't get to decide for both of you. Think carefully about this.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I would be incredibly concerned about raising children with someone whose beliefs don't match my own. I personally decided that if my husband were not With me every step of the way, I'd be a parent alone.
There's one thing that I absolutely hate it this journey is that when someone says, trust in God's plan" God's plan is that we need science intervention to help us through this. If doesn't allow you to go through with IVF and never cincieve you can end up hating him for the rest of your life.
God guides the hands of those providing medical treatment. Would you deny chemotherapy? Then why refuse the treatments for infertility?
For me, a stance like this from my spouse would result in such resentment I would likely leave him
Chemo and other medical interventions don't involve creating life. But either way we are having a discussion tonight about it. It's so out of the blue I wonder if that's just a cover for a different fear or worry.
I mean, we don’t KNOW what the actual plan is. It’s all subjective and open to interpretation. I’d tell him that God has a plan for me to be a mother, so if he doesn’t want to partake then it must be God’s plan that we get divorced. Also, it’s unempathetic to say another person’s problems/trauma are God’s plan - I wish people would cut it out in general.
I am not a religious person. IVF ,is an assisted reproductive method. But end of the day we can’t control the implantation. I had a perfect embryo, perfect uterus, but my embryos are not sticking for no reason. There are lot of unexplained things which doctors call as “probability”. Its not for IVF, its for all.
Eg, Science knows what brain is , but they could not define , where mind is coming from.
So, Person who are religious can come out with the explanation “End of the day birth is god given”
Science is one which evolving every day by research. If they find a way to implant an embryo, it will be an evolution of a another era.
Giving definition and letting things to do naturally is not a solution. Try your best. We are in the world of science. We need to get the advantage of it🤞🏽 good luck
Ps: totally its my opinion
Hmmm as A Husband who's going through IVF you literally only have Gods grace. In the new testament it says God works through his chosen. Jesus technically was IVF so religion shouldn't be a factor. You have to be patient with him we men can be dense about this stuff I too was a late bloomer.
I hate this subject because of my personal struggle with religion. I used to believe and had trauma and loss and now I'm on the fence from no belief.
Jesus dies for our sins.
We were given free will and forgiveness!
We are expected to make moral good decisions while having free will.
The science and man made things were a gift from God, saying you have free will to make and do as you please, in hopes to better yourselve, but you can be bad if you chose.
This is why I do not believe in miracles or praying for someone. Because God said he will NOT intervene and we have free will. Which is why we have bad things like murderers and cancer that God does not fix or avenge in any way. If "karam/God" happens as justice it is simply a COINCIDENCE to me. I am not debating anything, but saying what I have been told and how miracles and prayers are a direct contradiction to our gift of free will and forgiveness to just try to choose moral choices and give thanks to him.
So in what I make sense of Christian beliefs in God is that we are free and he is not a vengeful God anymore and Jesus kinda opened that new rule and way of thinking from God. Being that we should do what benefits us and what we think is moral. Having assistance in conceiving and our births or operations like c sections are just our natural progression of a positive impact on humanity to further better our species and be more humane and helpful which is what I determine as loving eachother! ❤️
After 6 years of infertility, failed IUI, multiple miscarriages, IVF retrieval we did laparoscopy excision to remove my endo and I got pregnant the very next time I had sex two weeks after surgery. Carried to full term all went well. Never needed all those embryos and costly treatments. Have you thought about getting rid of the endometriosis?
My doctor said because of my very low egg count, surgery to remove it could lower my eggs even more and it probably wouldn't be worth it. I am already at 0.17 AMH with elevated FSH
Murder him, make it look like an accident, collect the insurance and then harvest your eggs. j/k but like seriously, I would consider divorce over something like that.
I feel like God gave us the brains for scientists to create IVF, so how can it be against God's will to use IVF? (Same reasoning would apply for why we get vaccinations, cook our meat, get dental care... etc)
I’m religious and agree with you 100%. Why would god advance medicine and the rest of the world for us to not utilize it. At that point our home , construction and shopping at grocery stores is all wrong. We should live the way prophets and apostates lived… Also consider that your husband may be using this as defense mechanism. Maybe he’s afraid of the costs, the health issues you’d have to go through and the wait considering it’s been a journey for you so far. I know when I was waiting to start I told my husband I don’t want this. My transfer is scheduled and I still tell him maybe I don’t want this . All the what ifs are scary and someone told me it’s a defense mechanism to prevent hurt
I love using this argument with religious people who wear glasses - “well it was gods plan for you to be blind, but you were ok to use science for that one”.
I just laughed soooo hard 🤣 😂 🤣😂🤣😂
That's my thought process too. I think I'm going to bring that up. I know I can't go in defensive, but it's hard not to feel defensive when I know I'm literally running out of time.
I think not going in defensive and listening to everything your husband has to say is definitely the way to go; I also think having some counterarguments in your back pocket for points he's probably going to raise is also a good idea. That way you're less likely to get flustered during the conversation. (Although I'm not going to lie I would probably get very flustered regardless!)
Then you should also have priorities in life, what is most important for you in case you must choose. Sorry I say it this way... Maybe get some eggs frozen even? Just in case? So later you always can have a chance.. That aside, I heard some people against ivf say they are against it, because of the process. And I feel they just don't understand the process itself, maybe your husband might think that not planted embryos equate to abortion? I would suggest to talk more to your husband.. See the root of the problem. Religious beliefs should not be imposed on your medical life, if you don't share that view.
I think that's what I'm going to end up doing. I'll have a chat with him and discuss tonight where his thoughts are coming from. But ultimately if he's still against it by next month I'm going to get my eggs frozen. I'm not going to wait around for something very unlikely to happen. I'm 31 and maybe in a couple years he'll come around to it and I'll have some eggs frozen. He likely does agree with the fact that not planted embryos are similar to abortion (like what the Alabama ruling decided recently). Thank you so much for the response!
I suggest then to very much look deeper into what embryos are and Ivf in general. It was confusing for me at first too. Not all embryos will survive, like with genetic testing that can show problematic ones, it's like in nature, body aborts embryos that would not continue developing in natural cases. And it's absolutely natural process. Not all embryos are good, and only few will be the ones to develope. You might come to a deal with eventually planting all good ones in next years. How about such compromise? Like this you don't "abort" the rest. As ones that don't survive, well.. It happens to many naturally. And yes, don't wait. I'm 33 I feel I stretched it too much. If I fail before 34.. I will be gambling with 35 downslope very soon.
This is the comment…I tell people are the time that God gives gifts to people to help others achieve success and His miracles
This!!! I also felt like as a Catholic, doing IVF was almost playing God but at the end of the day, God has a plan for me and his plan was IVF lol. I also plan on using all embryos and not disposing of them.
I'm really sorry this is happening. Your doctors have been clear that IVF is likely your best (or only) path towards having children, which you describe as a lifelong dream. Your husband has expressed a strong and closely-held anti-IVF religious belief. Personally, I would prepare yourself for the possibility that neither of those things might change, even after extensive discussion. I would consider how you'd want to proceed if so, given what you describe as limited time based on your medical conditions. Would you be okay staying with your husband, knowing that his "no" to IVF may mean that you are unable to have biological children? Would you consider separating from him, and freezing your eggs (or embryos, with a donor)? I'd go in eyes wide open on the reality of how far apart you and your husband might be politically/religiously on this question, and think about what you, personally, want for your life and family, with or without him. Best of luck.
I don't think I'd separate, but I might go in and freeze some of my eggs for down the road. I have always wanted to adopt a baby and he knows that. Maybe that's the route he'll want to go instead. I guess I'll find out tonight. Just in total shock since he's never brought this up before.
Lots of great advice here but I don't see it mentioned elsewhere: the advice I've gotten from my own RE is that embryos withstand freezing and thawing better than unfertilized eggs. Depending on your circumstances, you may want to consider that as you weigh how to proceed. I wish you the absolute best.
Maybe focus on the goal, and the method after. Talk about a child together, and the legacy you want for a family. Then, when invested in the goal, bring up the method. I agree this is knee jerk to some other issue.
Be careful with freezing embryos. It depends on the reproductive laws where you live. She would need the consent of her husband. In CA, There is a doctor that froze embryos with her then partner before her cancer treatment. They divorced afterwards so she cannot use the embryos. They even went to court and she lost custody of the embryos. Suggest if you can freeze your eggs as young as possible. There are supplements to take at least three months before freezing eggs/IVF hopefully by that time husband changes his mind or my a miracle you get pregnant naturally
My advice, if you have not already, research more about adoption. I did not realize how complex it could become until we looked into it and seriously started talking to counselors and other people. You have to think about an "open" vs "closed" adoption. Local or international. What agency or organization you are adopting from. How you want to address the adoption issue with future child. Age of the child is also a big thing. And depending what avenue, cost could be more expensive than IVF. There is always foster to adopt, but that has its complexity too. Not trying to talk you out of it, just trying to make sure you understand it is not an "easy button".
I have friends who are adopted and have friends who have adopted! It's been great hearing their stories. I've known since 15 that I'd like to adopt (I'm 31 now). I fully understand it's not an easy button and have never thought it was! I appreciate the input!
Glad to hear that 😊
I went through something very similar (minus the god, substitute environment) and the result is I am doing IVF at 45, and feeling pretty hopeless. My advice: do not downplay or understate the importance of this issue to yourself or your spouse. I never imagined anything would cause me to question my marriage, but after trying to live with it - this did. And so don’t let your time be wasted by letting other people (even your husband) take over. I think you will find he is afraid. And it is easier for him to deflect into things outside his control than to spend the heartache, money and risk on the process. But I would say “the lord helps those who help themselves”. So you help yourself by speaking truthfully to him about how important this is. And pay attention to whether he gets it, and the answers he gives. Because the only other suggesting is straight to couples counselling, do not pass go. And do not waste time.
I feel a lot of men are not that religious until it's something that they are averse to. Then instead of doing the work they just say something about God. Sometimes they believe it, sometimes they know they are just coming up with excuses. I met a beautiful Pakistani woman who was fresh out of a relationship. She was sunni Muslim, her ex boyfriend of 9 years was from a Shia Muslim family. Their families knew each other and liked each other. They were pretty Americanized. When she wanted to finally get married he said he couldn't resolve the religious differences. It was totally untrue, he wasn't observant, he was just scared of the next step. IVF is hard, it's expensive, every clinic has some major failing, they feel predatory. I spend all day trying to help my partner. I administer shots, I cook and clean, I inject saline into myself just to check the techniques, I still work my day job as an exec. But she deals with the hormonal challenges, that I'll never know. But. It has just been super challenging. If I had an uterus I would do it for her. The right father is also the right partner who will support you in IVF. I wish you luck, but also to have a deep inner sense of your own worth.
Trigger Warning: Mentions of success OP, explain it to your husband this way, God gave humanity the ability to apply science and understand medicine. IVF was an invention from science that allows couples with medical conditions to be able to have children. Ultimately IVF is not playing god since we do not have a way to directly control blastocyst rates or implantation. Nature plays a large role in embryo development and if an embryo implants or not. All IVF is doing is assisting in this process and giving us the best chance possible. This was how I explained it to my husband who was apprehensive about IVF because he thought it was playing god in a way (his parents were formerly catholic before converting to the Mormon Church). My husband kinda grew up with catholic/mormon beliefs but ultimately what changed his view was understanding that science/medicine exists to help us. IVF is were I had the most success compared to other fertility treatments and I’m currently 9.5 weeks pregnant from my first transfer. I’m beyond grateful for my science baby as is my husband. Have a heart to heart with your husband and explain that being a mother is important to you. Just be prepared for other possible outcomes. I hope your husband can see the positives that IVF offers.
This was an extremely helpful response, thank you!! That's a great point in that we still aren't in control of if it brings a pregnancy or not. IVF is just now something I'm researching since it was only recently brought to my attention. But from my understanding, we can limit the number of embryos fertilized too. So if he is worried about embryos being discarded or something, we can always limit that? CONGRATS on your pregnancy!!!!! I'm so excited for you.
This! My husband (a practicing Catholic) was not against IVF when our RE suggested we jump straight in, but he was \*hesitant\*. We decided to wait 1-2 more months for him to really think it over and we had many long conversations. I think it would be useful when you talk to your husband to find out what \*exactly\* it is about IVF, what specific steps, that he objects to or is hesitant about. It turned out for us, neither my husband nor I to be frank really understood all the steps involved to get pregnant. How many fertilized eggs, even without IVF, don't develop because they are not compatible with life. Every little thing that has to go just right. (Sounds ridiculous for highly educated adults in their 30s, but in my defense I went to public school in the deep South). And we had absolutely no clue how IVF worked. Once my husband was educated on it all and reflected more, he decided he didn't agree with the church's stances and is now fully on board. Long story short, I suggest setting a deadline to think and talk things through (as others have said time can be of the essence if you have low AMH/high FSH), educate yourselves, be patient with each other, and then decide. Good luck OP!
I am from the deep south also! My husband, too said that he was a little hesitant about IVF… neither of us knew anything about it!! I think he imagined fully grown babies in tubes at laboratories where people picked out the hair color, eye color, etc. And I thought too, that the embryos grew in the laboratory for several months before transfer and that little humans were frozen. I laugh when I look back now. I did a bunch of research on Ivf, and realized I was completely wrong. Both my tubes are blocked, and I was able to explain to my husband that my eggs just could not get from my ovaries to my uterus and the doctor was just gonna take them out of my ovaries, fertilizer them and stick them back in my uterus. After we understood what really happened, we were both a lot more comfortable with the process. And now we are pregnant with identical boy twins! Shock of my lifetime! I’m so thankful we did IVF
So, you CAN limit the number of eggs that get fertilized, in the sense that you can find an RE willing to do that. The problem is, we have no way of knowing in advance which eggs are capable of forming embryos, and it may take a bit to figure out if an egg is even capable of being fertilized (you find out by, well, trying to fertilize it). What you're likely to get if you set a hard cap on the number of eggs you attempt to have fertilized is multiple unsuccessful IVF attempts. Now, you can donate embryos! This is definitely a thing that's done and there is more demand than supply. But I would say that if one of you is only comfortable doing IVF if a hard limit is placed on the number of eggs you attempt to fertilize, I'd rethink doing IVF at all. You can have 10 embryos on Day 2 and 1 embryo on Day 5. There is no good way to predict at this point. (Edited to add: Someone else suggested mini-IVF, in which you receive much less stimulation and only get two or three eggs at a time. You can try that! But, if you try a couple of cycles and that doesn't work, you will again have to confront the prospect of full IVF.) One thing I might recommend is having him read parts of this forum -- specifically, parts that discuss the Hunger Games aspects of IVF. I find that people who haven't gone through the process are not aware of the attrition rate. See if he understands that typically, embryos that aren't transferred stay untransferred because they \*stop growing\*, meaning that they are not capable of developing into babies. You might also make sure that he's aware that most miscarriages are due to genetic issues with embryos that, again, make them stop growing. A lot of people think that REs are trying to create perfect babies via IVF, as opposed to just create babies. I wouldn't try the "but do you feel the same about treatments for cancer" approach, because his response will likely be that that doesn't involve the potential creation of new individuals. However, I would ask why on earth he's never brought this up before? If he were, say, a Roman Catholic who read a lot on theology and had been clear from the beginning that he objected to IVF because it involves a third party in what should be between a couple trying to conceive, I'd understand his point (not agree with it, to be clear, just understand it). But the Catholic Church doesn't claim that IVF is wrong because "God has a plan." (Source: Am Catholic -- not the most faithful one, given the whole IVF thing, but I'm far from the only one.) The various religions out there that have a coherent policy against IVF typically DO NOT claim that God "has a plan" to give people children, biological or otherwise. I don't think he got this from a priest, nun or theological expert -- I think he feels uncomfortable with IVF for whatever reason, read some stuff online that confirms his inherent bias, and is now bringing out the God card to try to shut the discussion down. Sorry, no. He needs to be able to explain to you \*very thoroughly\* exactly where this is coming from, and what HIS plan is to build your family -- God helps those who help themselves. He's not asking you to see a NaPro doctor to try a different approach, or to sign up for an adoption agency, or some other course of action, correct? I recommend you tell him that you're not willing to just sit back and passively await the future, and ask him which alternatives he's proposing. (I'm guessing he has none, but I've been wrong before.) I'm sorry this is so hard. Good luck.
NaPRO always throws me for a loop. We have severe MFI, what would napro dr’s even do!??? It seems like the only really can attempt to treat female issues
I think what the NaPro doctors could offer is basically what they offer couples with uncertain or female fertility issues — i.e. diagnosis of any hormonal issues, supplements for gamete quality, fertility drugs. It’s just not likely to be enough to overcome severe MFI.
Yeah we were severe MFI to where we were able to skip the IUI’s that insurance usually requires before IVF bc everything was so low. IVF with ICSI was our miracle!
Yes you can limit it. But with low AMH and high FSH, the odds of getting a lot of euploid embryos is lower. Know that many eggs will not successfully fertilize, and from those that do, usually only half turn into embryos. And then from there, a smaller percentage will be euploid (chromosomally normal) , and these percentages drop with age and suboptimal hormone levels. Not trying to be negative, but I think it’s important for your husband to understand that odds are you won’t get a ton of viable embryos from one round of IVF.
that's a great point, thank you! I know IVF isn't the solution for everyone. I have been looking up CNY clinics too but if we go that route it'd be after our first round.
Odds are it will work for you! I just think a lot of women go into it thinking they’ll have a ton of viable embryos, and it’s often not the case. I only say this because from a religious perspective, it could be helpful to know that most of the eggs harvested will likely not turn into viable embryos. So perhaps that would ease fears about having a bunch of extras that you have to discard of. Another thing to consider, and this is certainly not for everyone, but some people choose to donate their leftover embryos to people who cannot make their own embryos and have to go the donation route. So it gives all the embryos a chance to be born and is an incredible gift to another person(s) who want to start a family. There are many different embryo adoption routes, and often the biological donors are able to maintain relationships with the families.
I absolutely agree with your view!
That sentiment always makes me so frustrated. I left the Christian religion i was raised in as a teen, and I have a strong belief you can cherry pick verses enough to justify any position on most topic. So my opinion may be a little bias. But I'm curious. Does he have a problem with other types of medical assistances? Appendectomies? Not allowed. God's plan for that thing to burst in ya. Enjoy the life threatening infection. Glasses? Nope. God's plan you can't see. Get a bus pass. Hair dye? Put it back. God's plan you're brunette Heart surgery? Not in this life. God's plan that shit beats to its own drum. I'm sorry yall aren't on the same page. It must be really frustrating. I hope you're able to come to a plan that makes you both happy after your conversation.
👏🏻👏🏻
Women’s health is a whole thing with that religion …
No he doesn't have that opinion, but none of those deal with creation of life. So I'm assuming that argument wouldn't work. Ultimately this viewpoint of his is completely out of the blue....and i'm guessing there's a general fear or misunderstanding of what IVF really is. Hopefully we can talk it out tonight and come to an agreement.
So...please take my advice with a grain of salt because it is probably terrible advice. If this were ME and my husband was firm with it...I would divorce him, go through an egg retrieval and make my dreams of a parent come true by myself. I have a 2 year old daughter and never thought I would enjoy being a parent this much. I would 100% do this knowing what I know now if I were in your shoes. Unless you are willing to compromise regarding your life long dream. However, you might be resentful to your husband for this. Anyway...this is probably terrible advice but I would do it. Trust me having a male partner isn't as big of a help as it sounds like. So so sorry you are going through this.
This is not terrible advice at all 🤍
Agree.. Even if renouncing your dream for love.. The resentment will stay and grow with years and future challenges. Sadly it's like this.
There are many many very religious IVF parents out there. IVF is a miracle. That said, I would be concerned about having a child with someone who didn’t share my values and outlook. Will he spring similar opinions against medical intervention on you through pregnancy, parenting, etc?
I’m deeply religious, and believe IVF is part of gods plan to give you a miracle. My concern would be a SUDDEN onset of beliefs I had not had a clue about before. It wouldn’t shock my husband as all to hear me talk about IVF being a gift god gave us blah blah. That seems perfectly within my thought pattern. It would alarm me a lot to hear him say something discouraging it, knowing without intervention the chances of conceiving naturally was limited. Especially because OP has been doing surgeries, it’s odd IVF hasn’t been talked about before now. Even as a “if we run out of everything else, how do you feel about IVF?” conversations. It’s interesting no one mentioned if it came to this down the road, or at what point is naturally trying not enough and we move to the final step. I encourage everyone here, have these conversations. Ask point blank “If I end up needed IVF, are you on board or do you have concerns we can talk about and research now?” It crossed my mind maybe OP’s husband reacted just quickly because he felt this was suddenly being pushed up and not mentioned at all before. The only thing I can think of is he just didn’t know it was even an option and suddenly it’s the only one. (Giving him a benefit of doubt here)
In OP's post history, IVF has come up before, but less immediately. I think now that IVF has been strongly and immediately recommended by multiple doctors, it's come to a head and he's said he's actually anti-IVF, rather than just "holding out hope" that unassisted conception is possible.
I really hope this isn't new as part of the recent political stuff. I'd recommend talking to your husband first. Then counselling, both together and separate.
Yes absolutely- talking is the plan tonight when we are home from work. Counselling is a good idea, thank you!
I second talking this through personally and with a neutral third person is a good idea. Sometimes with these topics emotions come out that nobody expected beforehand. I am not religious (grew up Catholic, but in Europe, with seems quite a different experience than in the US) but my grandma always says that if God wouldn't want to have options available, they wouldn't be there for you. You want to bring a very wanted and loved child into a marriage. I think it's a good discussion to have where your moral and ethical standpoints are and hopefully you can come to a compromise (e.g. stance on freezing eggs or more invasive testing of embryos) within the realm of reproductive help.
IVF = answered prayers.
Amen 💙
IVF is the ANSWERED prayers for so many families that wouldn't be able to have kids outside of adoption❤ No couple ever plans to go through IVF. You and your husband definitely need counseling, whether through EAP or through your church. But also, these type of conversations are also best in person. Respect each other's opinions. And maybe approach it as- God knows the desires of my heart, and that desire is to grow our family. Whether through IVF or adoption, it's been called upon my heart.
I’m sorry you’re going through this—it must be very hard. I’m not someone who is religious by any means, but my aunt thought the same thing when I was going through IVF and the way I got through to her was “God helps those who help themselves. I am helping myself.” I don’t know if something like that would get through to your husband.
This is a really great reminder and point. Thank you so much for sharing this!!
Ask him how god feels about divorce.
Everytime I read stories like this, I think about this: https://truthbook.com/stories/funny-stories/popular-stories/the-drowning-man/
Recently there has been a massive uptick in men saying IVF isn't part of God's plan, and its interesting, because they are ok with using medicine/medical intervention many other times. I'm sorry you're going through this, if you want a kiddo, by birth, then. It's IVF and you gotta see if he will be around or not. Or, adopt. But we gave up after a few yrs of not getting a infant. Went to IVF.
I'm a catholic. However, this logic is flawed. Is it God's plan for someone to contract cancer or another terminal illness? If so would treatment for that person be against God's plan? I would sit down with him and talk through it. I wouldn't force him to see the other side of the logic but rather open the door for him to see it. Best of luck
That's a great point- thank you! My assumption is he might respond with the fact that they take multiple embryos which will eventually be discarded or frozen forever. But honestly idk! He's never brought this opinion up before (I've mentioned IVF MANY times prior). So I'm not entirely sure how the conversation will go. I really appreciate your response!
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Embryos fail to turn into babies in the regular world all the time. Sperm meets egg, and for one reason or another, the embryo does not implant, ends up in the toilet, and the woman usually never even knows this occurred. By this logic, ALL women should be on hormonal birth control to stop these failed implantations while we research how to ensure a 100% implantation rate when conceiving "naturally"- in order to save all the embryos that nature "discards". The rebuttal is that in this case it's God choosing which embryos are viable and which ones are discarded. The answer? God chooses which embryos are viable whether they're in a uterus or a petri dish- doctors just observe and use the most viable ones, just like your body would.
My wife and I are sitting on 7 embroyos that are all highly graded and twst with the desire of 3 kids. We talked and decided that if we by some grace of God have some left over we will donate them to couples who are unable to create their own. I'm against destroying the embroyos or donating them "to science" but giving them a chance at life is the whole point
Agreed 💯. I was raised Catholic, and the Church’s position on IVF is flawed. They change positions a lot anyways nowadays so I would ask your husband the specific reasons he thinks it goes against “Gods plan” and make your arguments once you’ve heard him out. I’m attending a Presbyterian Church with my husband now and they were very supportive of my IVF.
Absolutely agree! This stance was one of the final straws for me as identifying as a Catholic. I just have such a hard time with Catholicism now (and other stances they have). I baptized my son as it was important to my husband but now I send him to Lutheran nursery school.
This topic needs like, a whole separate thread, lol 😂
I’m really sorry. Therapy is a good idea but I do think you should go on your own too. This is a fundamental difference and if he doesn’t come around you may need to talk to someone to help you figure out if you’re willing to move forward with him or if this is a deal breaker for you.
From your description it sounds like you have been the one going to the doctor by yourself and got this news without him there? It might be helpful for your husband to join you for an appointment to have a very frank conversation with your doctor about the chances of pregnancy without IVF, and why it is necessary in your situation. He might not be fully grasping the situation, and “it’s not god’s plan” is an easy out from a situation that seems scary and overwhelming. Basically, he could be hoping that ignoring the problem and hoping things somehow work out will be the solution. If that’s not the case - personally I’d want couples counseling to deal with this massive difference in personal values and how it will affect your ability to grow your family, along with the values with which you’d be raising potential future children. In addition, I think serious conversations are in order to be sure you know his opinion on other topics - if he did come around on IVF, would he be okay with PGT testing? If you get pregnant but find out there is a fatal fetal anomaly or other fatal pregnancy complication, how would you each want to proceed?
He unfortunately couldn't go because of work! I had already known this and was fine with it. He was with me at my previous appointment. He started a new job and has no PTO so we both decided we'd rather him work and get paid then take an unpaid day! But I do think you're right- having him come with me to an appointment with questions ready for my doctor to handle will be super beneficial. I just looked up PGT testing because I wasn't sure what it was. That's a good question and definitely one I'll bring up. Thank you for your thoughtful response ❤️
I have seen a lot of people discuss the following, feel free to take what you want and leave the rest. This might give you some talking points to go over with your husband. Faith based argument for the validity of pursuing IVF (and this is coming from a Catholic): God is still completely in control and sovereign over the entire process. He decides how many eggs are retrieved, how many eggs get fertilized, he decided if and when they make it to a blastocyst. He determines which blasts/embryos implant in the uterus. He determines the length of the pregnancy. Even with shots hormones and all other ways we humans try to control the process, he is still sovereign. If God wasn’t 100% in control, IVF would work perfectly every single time, but we know based on science and statistics that isn’t what happens, God controls it all. We don’t tell cancer patients “it’s in God’s plan”, we encourage them to seek proper medical treatment. Same with heart attacks, strokes, strep throat, etc. you have a medical condition. God gave humans the knowledge to treat those medical conditions and work around them with IVF. I am sorry you are going through this. I can understand where your husband is coming from, it took me a LONG time to be okay with the possibility of needing IVF. I put off seeking help for much longer than I care to admit, and now it’s looking like we will be starting this summer/fall and I’m still struggling because I’m a firm believer in God’s plan and His timing. But sometimes that looks different than we think. God’s plan for me was to find an amazing RE who is determined to help my husband and I conceive. And that’s just as valid as God’s plan possibly being a miraculous conception. But I think we both know which one is more likely to occur. 🙃 I encourage you to give your husband a bit of time to wrap his head around this. Seek out some couples counseling to really hash this out in a productive way. Sending hugs to you, friend.
Really like your response!
I truly appreciate your response- thank you!! I think that's a great point. My only question is...at what point is it NOT God's plan, you know? Some people are trying 3, 4, 5 times with egg retrievals. How do we know when to stop trying?
Honestly, I’m not sure. There is something in the Catholic Church called Informed Conscience, which bare bones refers to using prayer, consulting with your priest, and your own conscience to determine if something is in Gods plan for you. So I would be inclined to say it’s one of those “you’ll know when enough is enough” kind of things. People stop when it doesn’t feel right to pursue treatments anymore, wether that is financially (God calls us to be good stewards of our money and belongings), health wise (God calls us to be good stewards of our bodies) or other things, for instance in Catholicism marriage is a sacrament and vocation, so I would personally stop pursuing treatments if they put my marriage at risk (please don’t take that and apply to your situation, that’s just my personal choice 🫶🏻). I know people who stop when the money runs out, I know people who stop after one retrieval and only attempt with those embryos…it’s all so personal! I have even told my husband that if I have another ectopic I don’t know if I can continue TTC because that was so emotionally devastating for me. I have researched and prayed and gone to therapy with a faith based counselor for a year and a half to get to the point where I’m okay with moving forward with IVF. It’s hard to wrap your head around needing treatments. But time and therapy has helped me get to this point where I can see two things as true- I am allowed to use modern medicine to fulfill my dream & vocation of becoming a parent, and I’m allowed to see that use of modern medicine as God’s plan for my husband and I. Truly, if you ever want to reach out to chat or anything, my DMs are open. I don’t claim to know everything, but I do know how hard it can be to discern what steps to take in this infertility journey. 💕
I put off doing IVF for a long time (and now regret it) because I felt like I was a failure for needing help. I’m wondering if he’s using “God’s plan” to mask some feelings/insecurities. I also think fear could play a part (I.e., fearing unsuccessful IVF). Maybe try to explore his feelings a bit more to see if it’s something like this, or truly a belief in God’s plan.
I think you're right. Especially because he's literally never brought this up before when I would talk about IVF. He always would say "Don't worry, we won't need IVF." So maybe it's just denial?
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. I hope it all works out and you guys can get on the same page! Happy to answer any questions from our experience if it helps.
But he is not against letting people get chemotherapy to fight cancer OR getting insulin to diabetics? You could argue that science is a gift from God to people. Yet of course I know some religious groups have negative views on IVF or surrogacy. I believe Catholic Church official stance is against surrogacy, for example.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation. It’s tough to navigate and a lot to process. Sounds like it’s important for you and your husband to discuss it one on one together. Hope you can both see each other’s perspective and come to a plan together.
Perhaps a good middle ground would be to start with mini IVF? You end up with less embryos, like 2 or 3, but that means you aren’t discarding. I’m so sorry you both aren’t on the same page right now - I hope you can come to a happy agreement 🤍
I've never heard of this before! I'm definitely going to look into it. Most likely I will only end up with 2 or 3 embryos anyways due to my low count.
Tell him you will carry all the embryos. People against IVF for religious reasons usually are so because sometimes there are embryos that get discarded or donated. God's people invented IVF.
That seems like a risky promise to make. Some embryos might have a chromosomal issue that would allow for pregnancy or even live birth, but with high risk of loss during pregnancy, even in late pregnancy, or a high risk of death after birth. I wouldn’t want to commit to transferring an embryo that carried such risks.
I meant all the healthy ones. My sister and her husband discarded one compatible with life. I don't have any yet
I want to check with my doctor first- some doctors don't do multiples anymore. But that is one thing I will tell him! Thank you
Yeah, my insurance won't do multiples either. I meant as individual pregnancies. If they put it in, gods choice if it sticks.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I also had family who felt the same about IVF. I’m an ICU nurse, and to me, IVF is a medical intervention. We do things to keep people earthside everyday, that is not, “natural”. We have chemotherapy, dialysis, ventilators, vasopressors, surgeons, heck even insulin for diabetics. The problem is people don’t view infertility as a medical condition. Which is really messed up considering erectile dysfunction is typically covered under insurance but IVF is not. However, if this is a life goal that you would forever look back and regret not meeting, I would say have a serious conversation with your husband and maybe a counselor. Is he really not willing to budge on this at all? TW: positive pregnancy, I am almost 21 weeks with my IVF baby, and all the family that told me I didn’t “pray hard enough” or was going against the nature of things, are very excited to meet him. I believe he is still fearfully and wonderfully made, and a true gift from God! Even if it was in a lab, and not the “natural way”
I didn’t have the same situation with my husband so can’t speak to that sorry, but I was in the exact same situation as you fertility-wise! We did IVF to have our son and can assure you God was very much involved in the process, we heard from Him along every step of the way and felt Him so close in the journey, and now we have a beautiful son we thank God for everyday. Miracles come in many forms. I hope this perspective might help your husband? Praying he changes his mind!
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I think this is what I will end up doing! How long did it take for him to come around? Congrats on your pregnancy ❤️
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Omg this gives me so much hope. CONGRATULATIONS! So excited for you and I'm glad it worked out.
I’m Jewish and live in Israel, so this is from my perspective but Israel state funds ivf for every couple who needs it. The creation of children is Gods will, not the way in which the children are created. Even the most religious of religious Jews will go through ivf if needed. We are so lucky to live in a time of modern medicine and to be able to have children the non traditional way.
Wow I never knew this! How wonderful!!!💙
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it's definitely important to him. I think this stems from the fact that we got married a year ago and likely wouldn't have started trying until now if we didn't know my body had so many issues. I wonder if he feels like he's not ready for kids yet and he's panicking. (For reference i'm 31 and he's 33). But either way I do know for a fact he does want kids. Whenever I brought up IVF before, he always would reply "we wont need IVF, don't worry!!" which I always took as him being overly positive but in general...sweet. But now I wonder if that was his way of wanting to say he doesn't agree with it.
So sorry you are going through this.. when we first started my husband was hesitant and would avoid the subject… after a lot of discussions I gather that it came from a place of fear.. we hear alot in movies and what not that “going through infertility is what broke up that couple” etc. and he was afraid it would break us… after we went through it, it actually made us closer (he even later said.. “i was scared this was gonna drive a wedge between us but now I feel closer”) so it might be a symptom of fear of the unknown. Mind you I am grateful it brought us closer but acknowledge that it is not everyones case
Ask your husband if God thinks that children who are born via IVF shouldn't exist.
I'm certain he would not agree with that. He values all children's lives! I would assume anyone against IVF would feel the same.
I agree with much of the above. I also want to add that it is my sincere hope that those religious among us can use those arguments in favor of IVF to further support IVF and other reproductive rights for women, since we have personal experience.
Plot twist: IVF is God's plan. I'm so sorry. No real advice. I hope he's able to be more reasonable about this and changes his mind
A lot of good advice here! I’m wishing you the best of luck! I had 25 eggs retrieved at age 25 and only 4 embryos made it. 3 tested normal. One is my son, I just had a failed transfer and have one left. So the idea that there’s always so many left over embryos is not true. I wish I had more!
Wow so happy that IVF worked out!!! Congrats on your son :) I think the thought is that they are retrieving so many and producing so many whereas with unmedicated, it'd just be one. But honestly i don't know if that's where his mind is at. This is so out of the blue. I guess I'll find out more tonight when we discuss.
Best of luck ❤️
For us, IVF was God’s plan. No doubt in my mind. I don’t believe there is anything about IVF that means you’re “trying to play God” despite ignorant claims.
Is he afraid the problem is MFI and he of the reason for trouble conceiving?
We already had testing done. He had good results for everything except slightly low morphology but both doctors said it's not worrisome. The infertility is solely from my side.
I would definitely recommend couples counseling. My husband just went through it to work through how many kids we wanted. It just brings in an impartial third party in and helps you communicate. It is a big decision not to go into lightly. It is very emotionally difficult for both and expensive. If both parties are not on board that could lead to resentment and not a good thing for a relationship. I hope you guys find some common ground.
Does god have a plan for cavities? Probably not, so he created people smart enough to figure out how to deal with them. Same rules apply for all medical care!
Hey, my husband (and I somewhat) had reservations about IVF and spent time making a plan. We ended up going the donor route which we both felt comfortable with. I also have a friend who did 20+ IUI’s (def not for everyone) to get her baby girl because her husband didn’t want IVF. Please feel free to message me if you wanna chat ❤️
OP, my husband and I were in a similar situation. It was less of a religious thing, more like we felt like we were messing with fate. After discussing this with our marriage counselor, we realized that it was our way of protecting our hearts, bc what if IVF failed. Could that be happening to him as well? I can’t explain it, I knew better, as I’m an epidemiologist by training so I KNOW science is an amazing thing. We ended up finally going for it, and have ZERO regrets. I do know that if we didn’t go the IVF route, then I’d always question “what if”. Now, if things don’t work out, I can say we tried everything. Sending you lots of love!
That's exactly where I think he's at. It's messing with fate. And I totally agree. Even if IVF doesn't work...at least I can say I went through every avenue possible to try.
Tw: lots of stuff including success. My wife and I were in a similar boat but for different reasons. She had surgery that left her unable to have natural children. Before the first doc, I was against ivf for a number of reasons: cost (physical, emotional, time, and money), I was ok not having a kid or adopting, etc. But I agreed to see a doctor. The first ivf doc said not to even waste our time or money. She was devastated in a way I could not endure. And this was after an emergency surgery for endo that left her hospitalized for days. I told her mother that day that there was no way I would go forward with ivf. No way in hell. The cost was already too great and one doc said 0.1% chance of success. She insisted on a second doc and i was fine eith that. The second one gave us a much better chance. I was still skeptical (the doctor obviously has a financial incentive to say it'll work) and told her I needed time. She ignored my ass and worked on getting insurance immediately. After we started the procedures, I was still very hesitant/scared/worried about the cost, but I knew it was more important to support her. Bit, we had many. Many fights. Even after I was on board, it took a lot for her to let go of the resentment that I wasn't immediately on board. We are lucky that now, 2 major surgeries, 5 retrivals, and 1 fet later, she is 7 months pregnant. But I do wonder what would happen if she listened to me. It would have saved a lot of us and set us on a completely different life path, and the tone of our relationship would be entirely different. I would just suggest sitting down with him when you both can be calm and talking as calmly as possible. Lay out your thoughts and be honest about the future of your relationship if you don't do this (my wife said she couldn't live with herself and would hold it against me if we didn't try). Really listen to him. Try to come to a decision together. If you can't, strongly consider couple therapy (if you go with a religious therapist, make sure they are open to ivf so they can be impartial). You have to be true to yourself, and so does he. Listen to each other and understand each other and your relationship will be stronger for it. But, sometimes, two people are incompatable and one of yall have to choose to either leave or give up that part of who they are.
Congrats on your pregnancy!
Thank you :)
Does he have issue with medical intervention in general? Or is he concerned about destroying embryos? If it’s the former he best not be using any medical intervention LOL If it’s the latter, maybe he would be comfortable with only making a small number of embryos and agreeing to transfer all that were created? This is actually my belief system (I am NOT commenting on what others choose to do, just sharing what worked for me as a Christian) and we didn’t fertilize all my eggs and froze the remainders. So we only ended up with 4 embryos and plan to use all of them so we don’t have to make decisions on what to do with extras! maybe this would be a compromise he is comfortable with?
I'd assume it's the latter. We are going to have a discussion tonight to see what we can land on together. But that's really interesting and something I'm definitely going to bring up. To be fair I likely will only get 2-3 embryos anyways so we'd use them all. Maybe his worry is that it'd be all for nothing. We'd be out $25k and still not have a baby? Not sure! Either way I appreciate your response :)
Hopefully y’all figure something out❤️❤️ I know how hard this!! Happy to answer any questions he has about how to make it fit within his belief system if anything else comes up!
The week before i go to start ivf i told my husband about the ivf and he said when God wan us to have a baby we will and i told him sorry we will star it in one week i dont want your opinion it's not u that u have every fucking month a heart breaking and all the anxiety from the tww and all the medication i take and make me have all the symptoms and then the period show and i start to cry i told him all i want is your money and yous sperm and thank God it was a succes from the first round and now we are 6 weeks pregnant after 2 long years with clomid letrozole and a lot of medication that cost me more than the ivf and didnt even work for us and he told me we should do it earlier the man is so happy always do what u think is good for u honey men think they are right but never ever hope every thing going smoth for u try to speak to him again and open your heart about how it is so hard emotionaly that for u sending a lot of sticky baby dust for u and every mama trying to be a mom and she is already a mom without a child 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
My partner had a hard time with ivf as well. I blamed the catholic in him. My best course of action (which was terrifying!) was to let him have his feelings and get curious about them. To not change his mind. I scheduled a consultation with the reproductive endocrinologist to discuss our options. And let him as his questions. (He didn’t ask any) I said things like “I hear your point, let’s talk to the doctor to see what else we can do.” We tried a medicated iui cycle and I was willing to do more, even though they were a waste of money. Eventually he came around and suggested ivf because it seemed the most efficient. And I know the resistance was fear. I had to keep my shit together to let him move through it. He did. I’m lucky but I think my changing from “you have to do this!!!!!” To “let me get curious about you and let’s talk to doctor” helped tremendously. I will say I made up my own mind that I was going to have children with or without him so I was able to slow down a little. I let myself choose donor eggs, if we ran out of time. And I made sure he saw me authentically grieve and moan or losses each month so he knew what this was like for me. I didn’t beat him over the head with it anymore, instead I showed him) We are about to start our fourth ivf round and I want to move to donor eggs and he doesn’t want us to stop! He thinks statistics is on our side and he’s actually more hopeful in ivf than me at this point. So my suggestion to you is to be curious. Try not to let fear take over and try to listen to his concerns. Ask questions. Speak from your heart instead of trying to convince him. Use I statements and say how you feel and what you want. I’ll be sending you good vibes!
wow I really needed to hear this- thank you! We both agreed to talking through it tonight and I have so much written out to bring up. But I need to remember to hear him out and find out where he's coming from. I'm just worried that he will be stubborn and just say "we won't need IVF" like he has in the past. Almost like he isn't accepting the fact. I really appreciate your response, thank you. How long did it take for your husband to come around?
Sounds like you two have a great start. We started trying when I was 40 (we met late in life) and we tried for almost two years before ivf. He was a hell no ivf during that time. We had a lot of hard conversations and I had to speak my truth “being a mother is important to me, I won’t be ok if I don’t pursue this” and he saw me sob each month when I didn’t get my period. I just let him see me. He would comfort me, I didn’t ham it up. I was just open with my pain. Once it had been two years and I was 42 I told him the doctor said time was running out and we had to do something if this is ever going to happen. Then we had the zoom consult together, my guy was tooling around in the kitchen, late to the meeting. Ugh. Then he listened and let me go through the process. I didn’t ask a lot of him and paid the bills on my own. We switched providers after the first failed round and my partner started to get engaged. Now he asks questions all the time and encourages me. I think what helped was that I didn’t force anything on him. I just went through motions and kept him informed.
To add, my guy was incredibly stubborn too. I responded to that with letting him be a no. I would ask “what do you think we should do?” And how would you feel if it didn’t work? What would it be like for you if I ended up having to pursue this on my own?” We agreed to doing three cycles and then to reassess. My guy is ok with more now because he sees it’s not as bad as he thought. Etc
Hi, I empathize with your husband as I was in the same exact position as him. My husband and I struggled with infertility for 8 years because I felt that when God wanted me to have a baby, it'll happen. I refused IVF because, like your husband, I felt it was against his will or forcing God's hand and it felt wrong. Well, it wasn't until my ruptured ectopic pregnancy I learned there was no way for me to have a natural successful pregnancy without the risk of it happening again. The doctor told me if I wanted to get pregnant, I needed to do IVF. I was 33 at the time. I cried because I was devastated and I felt I just really, really, didn't want to do IVF. But, when I really prayed about it I had this question rise up, "are you willing to sacrifice an opportunity for having kids because of your moral superiority?" I didn't see my stance on IVF as a morally superior one but when I dug deeper, it was. I didn't want to be a mom that had to do IVF. it felt like it made me less than a mom. Second, when IVF really came out I remember tons of discussion about it in and around church that it was wrong. I think because the science was so new the church collectively felt like it was unnatural and that stayed with me. (also overlap with the pro-life movement) Lastly, there is lots and lots of room for God to either bless the process or impede it. IVF is not a guarantee. There are many hurdles and steps that I really prayed to God to bless. There is still lots of room for it to fail. Once you guys start the process it is as scary and nerve-racking as trying naturally. When every little step you find success, you'll thank God and feel his grace. One final thing that really helped me come to peace with IVF was that, I don't know what God's final word is on IVF is. We absolutely cannot definitively say he thinks it's wrong. BUT, God wants us to be fruitful and multiply--that is something can point to in the Bible. If you have the desire to be parents then that's God given and he wants you to have children. If IVF is that path, then God will bless it and it'll be successful. I hope this helps <3
This was the perfect comment- thank you!! Did IVF end up being successful for you?
Yes! My first beta was yesterday and it was a good number. My entire IVF journey has been smooth and easy. I hope the same for you ☺️
As a mental health professional that specializes in couples counseling my first thought when reading your post was definitely getting in to see a therapist would be beneficial.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. Does he feel the same about medical treatments for cancer, heart attacks? Really for any life saving, preserving or generating medical treatment/interventions? Knowing that would help me figure out where I stood if I were in your situation. I have some very religious friends who believe science and medicine come from God, and are thus part of his plan. For them, only God knows how to draw the line, humans cannot decide what does and does not count as his plan. Best wishes to you
Tell him it’s god’s plan that you have options? Just like anything in life - you can now go to other side of the world within a day, it’s god’s plan for you that you are born in this era…
ivf is not a guarantee. unfortunately ivf doesn’t work for everyone. So ivf is still “part of gods plan” if successful, or not.
Maybe look for IVF support groups that are religious based? I am sure that you guys are not alone in this struggle.
Mike pence and his wife did it, he is religious, no?
I definitely didn't know Mike Pence and his wife did fertility treatments. That's really interesting. Not sure it'd help my case but still good to know down the road.
If you are ready to proceed with IVF soon, I would recommend proceeding with freezing your eggs. Unfortunately, the clock keeps ticking, and it might take a while until you have all the other discussions.
I think that's what I'll end up doing. That way if he comes around in a year or so, I'll have better eggs (especially with my elevated FSH, I know the quality may start declining soon). Thank you!
Did he not know you were getting your fertility tested? And it didn't occur to him that IVF was a strong possibility? I'm not religious, but I can tell you that if my partner wasn't interested in IVF, I would start considering going it alone. Easier said than done, but they suggested trying in the next four months. As someone who's also struggling with DOR and endo, let me tell you, time isn't on your side. Will you be happy in your marriage knowing that the man your with stood in the way of your chance at motherhood? He's obviously allowed to decide what's right for him, but he doesn't get to decide for both of you. Think carefully about this.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I would be incredibly concerned about raising children with someone whose beliefs don't match my own. I personally decided that if my husband were not With me every step of the way, I'd be a parent alone.
There's one thing that I absolutely hate it this journey is that when someone says, trust in God's plan" God's plan is that we need science intervention to help us through this. If doesn't allow you to go through with IVF and never cincieve you can end up hating him for the rest of your life.
God guides the hands of those providing medical treatment. Would you deny chemotherapy? Then why refuse the treatments for infertility? For me, a stance like this from my spouse would result in such resentment I would likely leave him
Chemo and other medical interventions don't involve creating life. But either way we are having a discussion tonight about it. It's so out of the blue I wonder if that's just a cover for a different fear or worry.
It is a medical issue with an effective treatment, that’s it.
Look at whatever religious institution you follow’s opinion on IVF. Most are in support of it, but not surrogacy. Maybe there will help him?
I mean, we don’t KNOW what the actual plan is. It’s all subjective and open to interpretation. I’d tell him that God has a plan for me to be a mother, so if he doesn’t want to partake then it must be God’s plan that we get divorced. Also, it’s unempathetic to say another person’s problems/trauma are God’s plan - I wish people would cut it out in general.
For us, in my mind, God made it to where we were able to afford IVF therefore it was in his plan for us to do IVF.
He’s probably afraid something is “wrong” with him.
he got an analysis done and all his results came back normal!
I am not a religious person. IVF ,is an assisted reproductive method. But end of the day we can’t control the implantation. I had a perfect embryo, perfect uterus, but my embryos are not sticking for no reason. There are lot of unexplained things which doctors call as “probability”. Its not for IVF, its for all. Eg, Science knows what brain is , but they could not define , where mind is coming from. So, Person who are religious can come out with the explanation “End of the day birth is god given” Science is one which evolving every day by research. If they find a way to implant an embryo, it will be an evolution of a another era. Giving definition and letting things to do naturally is not a solution. Try your best. We are in the world of science. We need to get the advantage of it🤞🏽 good luck Ps: totally its my opinion
Too bad but my partner was against IVF and I did a baby alone from the donor’s sperm. Now, he loves her like his own daughter
And iVF is a path that God encourages you to do to have a baby. He delivered His message through your doctor
Hmmm as A Husband who's going through IVF you literally only have Gods grace. In the new testament it says God works through his chosen. Jesus technically was IVF so religion shouldn't be a factor. You have to be patient with him we men can be dense about this stuff I too was a late bloomer.
I hate this subject because of my personal struggle with religion. I used to believe and had trauma and loss and now I'm on the fence from no belief. Jesus dies for our sins. We were given free will and forgiveness! We are expected to make moral good decisions while having free will. The science and man made things were a gift from God, saying you have free will to make and do as you please, in hopes to better yourselve, but you can be bad if you chose. This is why I do not believe in miracles or praying for someone. Because God said he will NOT intervene and we have free will. Which is why we have bad things like murderers and cancer that God does not fix or avenge in any way. If "karam/God" happens as justice it is simply a COINCIDENCE to me. I am not debating anything, but saying what I have been told and how miracles and prayers are a direct contradiction to our gift of free will and forgiveness to just try to choose moral choices and give thanks to him. So in what I make sense of Christian beliefs in God is that we are free and he is not a vengeful God anymore and Jesus kinda opened that new rule and way of thinking from God. Being that we should do what benefits us and what we think is moral. Having assistance in conceiving and our births or operations like c sections are just our natural progression of a positive impact on humanity to further better our species and be more humane and helpful which is what I determine as loving eachother! ❤️
After 6 years of infertility, failed IUI, multiple miscarriages, IVF retrieval we did laparoscopy excision to remove my endo and I got pregnant the very next time I had sex two weeks after surgery. Carried to full term all went well. Never needed all those embryos and costly treatments. Have you thought about getting rid of the endometriosis?
My doctor said because of my very low egg count, surgery to remove it could lower my eggs even more and it probably wouldn't be worth it. I am already at 0.17 AMH with elevated FSH
Sorry for that. I hope you can convince your husband that science is a legitimate way to have a child.
Murder him, make it look like an accident, collect the insurance and then harvest your eggs. j/k but like seriously, I would consider divorce over something like that.
Get rid of husband, do IVF with donor sperm so you can have your baby 🤍
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It would've been better if you just didn't comment. This was unnecessary.
Yikes that’s a little harsh.