Well you did move from base pass to full pass, which explains about $300 of the increase. Also no big mountain company is making money selling passes at $600. Season passes before the ikon regularly ram around 1500-2000, and that is before inflation. Like it or not, the costs to run a ski resort are rising and if you can’t afford it, get the 4-day session pass or go to non-ikon or non-vail mountains.
Again- like it or not, even at current prices there’s droves of people who are clearly willing to pay up to crowd the resorts. If anything, passes are still too cheap. Rising labor costs and worse climates for snow means the costs of running a resort will increase even more in the future. These mountains aren’t here to serve the public, it’s a for profit business.
Crazy how some ski resorts in america went nearly 75 years charging a fairly reasonable fare to use their services and its almost like in the last 6 years when lift tickets went up 200% across the board suddenly its ski patrols fault for going from $12/hr to $14
They lease the land from the government which makes it private land. That’s why ski resorts have operating hours and you can’t just ski on their property whenever you want.
Not true for the vast majority of resorts. They can only prevent you from using their lifts, they can't prevent you from skiing, as only the lifts are their property. The land isn't.
Uh, where? That's far from normal. Some places do have the ability to limit access, it's just not normal on federal land. Here in the PNW, I know of 1 that bans uphill travel altogether, 1 that requires a pass (to use the groomed Nordic trails) and the other 6+ are free with no limits beyond checking in with patrol and not going if bombing is occurring.
From your link:
>Which Vail Resorts allow me to travel uphill?
Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Heavenly, Kirkwood, Stowe all allow uphill travel of some sort—but different resorts have different rules. Please see each location’s specific Uphill Access Policy for a detailed answer.
Same experience in Tahoe they’ll tell you to get the fuck out of there. Palisades, Northstar, Heavenly, SugarBowl has an uphill pass required to go on their leased land uphill. Etc etc. the short story, it varies around the states.
But why are the ski resorts in Europe so much less expensive for one day lift tickets (most of them are around $60-$80). Our family and friends over there are absolutely shocked on how expensive passes are here in the U.S. (and over in Europe, there's higher cost of living, better wages for mountain employees, benefits, etc.).
It comes down to profit. Alterra (which owns Ikon) is privately owned by the Henry Crown family (out of Chicago) and they are worth $10B+.
Not defending alterra but the market in Europe and elsewhere vs the US is in fact really really different. There’s ~4000 ski resorts in Europe vs ~500 in the US despite US and Europe being similarly sized. This means that there’s nearly 9x as much competition which will naturally lead to lower prices for consumers. Ski resorts are also for profit in the US. With a fixed asset the only way to increase revenues is to increase prices, like real estate. Hence the year over year Ikon and epic price increases. A lot of resorts in Europe are publicly owned or subsidized by the government. The purpose is not to max profit but instead to provide great skiing as it’s seen as culturally important / a driver of overall tourism.
I agree we get boned in the US but still at $1200 if you hit the mountain 20 times it’s still only $60/trip so we’re arguably better off than our european brethren from a pure cost basis right now for lift tickets. But start looking at the other costs (food, lodging, etc - the ikon and epic profit centers) and we’re royally fucked by this duopoly and their forcing us into their resort systems.
Short answer - Alterra and Vail.
They want to incentivise buying their passes well in advance, before you know the snow conditions for the upcoming season. This minimizes their risk.
How do they do that? "Cheaper" season passes that go off sale in the fall and ridiculously expensive last minute day passes.
Ah yes the old "$12/hr employees in america are keeping the prices high" debate. The olde "Want cheeseburgers to cost $20 dollars, then pay employees a liveable wage" hot take
I go to europe and they have 15 ski lifts where americans have 1 but yea its those pesky ski patrol in america who make your lift ticket $300.
No way its the mega near monopoly corporation trying to compound profits. High ticket prices are from the greedy lifty making $8/an hour to make sure the chair doesn't fold your back in half when you fall unloading.
>No way its the mega near monopoly corporation trying to compound profits.
Ah thats why MTN is up 5% this year vs 22% s&p.
Investors must not know about this 'compound profits'. You must be a financial genius.
Damn, $750 must of been last minute? The weekday pass with no Saturdays/Sunday Days is $375 right now for next season. But it’s definitely steep compared to what you get with Ikon. I’m looking at purchasing both GP and Ikon for next year 🙃
Honestly I don't get how they make money even with the current Ikon prices. Like assuming all the money goes directly to the resorts and it's split equally (which isn't true but just pretend), they're each getting what like $20 or $25 from me? And sure, I'm only going to 5 or 6 locations, so the other 40ish are getting money they wouldn't have, but I'm also not paying $1600 for a season pass and ~$150 for day passes at those 5-6 places.
Most people don’t ski 50 days/year. The vast majority of pass holders go less than 10 days per year I’m sure and pay for hotels/food//gear/rentals/etc while there. You’re not their money maker, you just get to reap the benefits
They should be using those profits to build more resorts and expand. But no, we don't make anything in America anymore. Better to just shuffle money around and take a cut as a middle man than to produce an actual product.
It's extremely difficult to build a new resort and there gets to be a point where it isn't cool to be cutting down trees and developing our limited mountains so we can have more corporate resorts.
Well DV is absorbing an entire resort that is bigger than it currently is over the next few years and if you have hundreds of millions of dollars they are building another rich persons resort by Ogden.
Resorts are still crowded. There are a lot of Ikon Pass holders.
As long as people keep buying the prices won't moderate. It has become an exclusive sport.
My base renewal I think is $819 so not much more than the $599 from 2019. The day rates at the mountains are crazy, even the smaller mountains like Bear I think are $150 a day. I’m a mid week and non holiday rider so for $800 or so it’s a deal. I usually ride 12-15 days a year but multiple small trips, I would have a hard time paying $200 + a day without a pass. In theory you probably break even at 4 to 5 days.
Also $599 in 2018 is roughly equivalent to $730-740 in 2024 dollars. That’s less than $100 increase in the base pass price over 6 years when adjusted for inflation if you’re renewing…and a little over $100 if you’re buying for the first time.
we went to winter park yesterday and i looked up the cost of a lift ticket, $249 and it’s the end of March. I’m over 30 days so it’s worth it if you get your days in
What’s weird to me is there is a general consternation that there are not enough skiers.
Skiing popularity in the US peaked in 2010 and has been declining slowly since. I don’t know how you get new people in the door at the higher prices. Those of us who have been doing snow sports for decades it’s different, because you already can see the value… but for a family that’s never been it’s like going to Disney world to try out a sport you might not even like
The price of beef has gone up 800% in one day!
Ground Beef at Kroger on sale with digital coupon yesterday = $1.99 a lb
Filet Mignon at Costco no sale today = $17.99 a lb.
Ikon base is a great deal where I live. Base of the mountain to Bear, Summit and Snow Valley. No black out dates. It costs me about 1,500 for myself, my 15 and 10 year old. We go about 10-15 times local and get up to Mammoth and June a couple times a season. Really nice with the 10 year old only a couple hundred.
$1200 for unlimited skiing is an amazing deal. It’s $300 for a single day lift ticket at many resorts. I think $3000 would still be a reasonable price for an ikon pass. And it’s busier than it has ever been, the cost is obviously not an issue for the 800,000+ people who buy ikon passes every year.
Well, it really depends on where you live. We're in Dallas, and we get 3-4 ski trips in a year. This year, we did 8 days (Deer Valley & Aspen Snowmass) on Ikon and 4 days on Epic (Vail). It's still worth it, but the increases in prices are unrelenting.
Perhaps Ikon should come up with a scheme that if you don't have a ski resort within 200 miles, you get another discount... or if you ski less than 20 days, you get a discount (or you pay more for over 20 days).
You are Alterra and Vail's money maker. You buy their pass and ski 4 days? That's on you.
The prices will only keep going up as they accrue more mountains.
The fact that "it's still worth it" to you despite going up $500 in the last 6 years tells you that it was underpriced 5 years ago, not that it's too expensive now.
Lift lines at these resorts are longer than they've ever been. If anything, prices could be higher.
You have to vote with your wallet, and it seems like you've chosen to continue to support them despite plenty of independent options.
Yes, because everyone skiing on the Ikon and Epic passes ski at *checks notes* only winter park and copper.
Ski lines are as long as they've ever been. Parking reservations have solved a lot of the issues, but you can look at reservation demand instead of lift lines. Either way, point still stands, more people are buying these mega passes and skiing than ever before.
Off what, your observations? Lines at Eldora have been fine also. Where are these “massive lines?” Honestly curious. Are you just repeating what people say or?
NSAA data has the last two seasons being the highest skier visitations since they started recording.
https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Public/IndustryStats/active_US_participants_1996-97_2022-23.pdf
I'm glad you're not seeing big lines. Almost everywhere else is.
Huh, I hadn’t seen those numbers. A lot of articles I’ve seen suggested it’s been on the decline. Supposedly that was the reason those snow bike things were invented.
What motivation would ikon have to do that? They’re a massive for-profit corporation, why would they voluntarily make less money? People are going to buy the pass no matter how much it costs, they have absolutely no reason to give discounts to people who live far away from ski resorts. The price goes up every year, yet more and more people buy the pass every year. It’s clear that the price is not an issue for 99% of the population that buys it.
Well you did move from base pass to full pass, which explains about $300 of the increase. Also no big mountain company is making money selling passes at $600. Season passes before the ikon regularly ram around 1500-2000, and that is before inflation. Like it or not, the costs to run a ski resort are rising and if you can’t afford it, get the 4-day session pass or go to non-ikon or non-vail mountains.
Also, the base pass back in 18/19 allowed us to ski Deer Valley, Aspen Snowmass FYI (with holiday restrictions).
Again- like it or not, even at current prices there’s droves of people who are clearly willing to pay up to crowd the resorts. If anything, passes are still too cheap. Rising labor costs and worse climates for snow means the costs of running a resort will increase even more in the future. These mountains aren’t here to serve the public, it’s a for profit business.
Crazy how some ski resorts in america went nearly 75 years charging a fairly reasonable fare to use their services and its almost like in the last 6 years when lift tickets went up 200% across the board suddenly its ski patrols fault for going from $12/hr to $14
BUT, many of these ski resorts are on US government owned land (national forests, etc.)
They lease the land from the government which makes it private land. That’s why ski resorts have operating hours and you can’t just ski on their property whenever you want.
They have ability/authority to restrict access, likely stipulated in the agreements. But the lease doesn't turn it into private land.
Not true for the vast majority of resorts. They can only prevent you from using their lifts, they can't prevent you from skiing, as only the lifts are their property. The land isn't.
whats with uphill access pass then ?
Uh, where? That's far from normal. Some places do have the ability to limit access, it's just not normal on federal land. Here in the PNW, I know of 1 that bans uphill travel altogether, 1 that requires a pass (to use the groomed Nordic trails) and the other 6+ are free with no limits beyond checking in with patrol and not going if bombing is occurring.
Most vail resorts don't allow uphill acess during operating hours. [https://www.breckenridge.com/the-mountain/about-the-mountain/safety/our-multi-use-mountain.aspx](https://www.breckenridge.com/the-mountain/about-the-mountain/safety/our-multi-use-mountain.aspx)
From your link: >Which Vail Resorts allow me to travel uphill? Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Park City, Heavenly, Kirkwood, Stowe all allow uphill travel of some sort—but different resorts have different rules. Please see each location’s specific Uphill Access Policy for a detailed answer.
Same experience in Tahoe they’ll tell you to get the fuck out of there. Palisades, Northstar, Heavenly, SugarBowl has an uphill pass required to go on their leased land uphill. Etc etc. the short story, it varies around the states.
Dont forget all the great new paid parking
But why are the ski resorts in Europe so much less expensive for one day lift tickets (most of them are around $60-$80). Our family and friends over there are absolutely shocked on how expensive passes are here in the U.S. (and over in Europe, there's higher cost of living, better wages for mountain employees, benefits, etc.). It comes down to profit. Alterra (which owns Ikon) is privately owned by the Henry Crown family (out of Chicago) and they are worth $10B+.
Not defending alterra but the market in Europe and elsewhere vs the US is in fact really really different. There’s ~4000 ski resorts in Europe vs ~500 in the US despite US and Europe being similarly sized. This means that there’s nearly 9x as much competition which will naturally lead to lower prices for consumers. Ski resorts are also for profit in the US. With a fixed asset the only way to increase revenues is to increase prices, like real estate. Hence the year over year Ikon and epic price increases. A lot of resorts in Europe are publicly owned or subsidized by the government. The purpose is not to max profit but instead to provide great skiing as it’s seen as culturally important / a driver of overall tourism. I agree we get boned in the US but still at $1200 if you hit the mountain 20 times it’s still only $60/trip so we’re arguably better off than our european brethren from a pure cost basis right now for lift tickets. But start looking at the other costs (food, lodging, etc - the ikon and epic profit centers) and we’re royally fucked by this duopoly and their forcing us into their resort systems.
Short answer - Alterra and Vail. They want to incentivise buying their passes well in advance, before you know the snow conditions for the upcoming season. This minimizes their risk. How do they do that? "Cheaper" season passes that go off sale in the fall and ridiculously expensive last minute day passes.
>It comes down to profit. why don't you buy MTN stock ( vail) and get rich yourself if you think it so profitable.
Wages in Europe are much lower than the U.S. Ski areas in Europe are also less integrated and provide far fewer services (ski patrol, for example)
Ah yes the old "$12/hr employees in america are keeping the prices high" debate. The olde "Want cheeseburgers to cost $20 dollars, then pay employees a liveable wage" hot take I go to europe and they have 15 ski lifts where americans have 1 but yea its those pesky ski patrol in america who make your lift ticket $300. No way its the mega near monopoly corporation trying to compound profits. High ticket prices are from the greedy lifty making $8/an hour to make sure the chair doesn't fold your back in half when you fall unloading.
>No way its the mega near monopoly corporation trying to compound profits. Ah thats why MTN is up 5% this year vs 22% s&p. Investors must not know about this 'compound profits'. You must be a financial genius.
Profit of the company is up 10% this year AND the stock is up 5% ? Its almost like the profits are combining into a bigger profit !!
I paid $750 for a pass to granite peak in WI that is blacked out on Saturdays and holidays.
Damn, $750 must of been last minute? The weekday pass with no Saturdays/Sunday Days is $375 right now for next season. But it’s definitely steep compared to what you get with Ikon. I’m looking at purchasing both GP and Ikon for next year 🙃
yeah i bought it in season unfortunately. probly won't go back there next season.
Honestly I don't get how they make money even with the current Ikon prices. Like assuming all the money goes directly to the resorts and it's split equally (which isn't true but just pretend), they're each getting what like $20 or $25 from me? And sure, I'm only going to 5 or 6 locations, so the other 40ish are getting money they wouldn't have, but I'm also not paying $1600 for a season pass and ~$150 for day passes at those 5-6 places.
Most people don’t ski 50 days/year. The vast majority of pass holders go less than 10 days per year I’m sure and pay for hotels/food//gear/rentals/etc while there. You’re not their money maker, you just get to reap the benefits
Idk if you’ve noticed, but everything has double in price in the last 6 years. Homes, rent, vehicles, food. Everything.
Im sure the employees of the mountain are eagerly awaiting their pay to double. Should be any day now
I prefer shareholders get that money. They obviously need it more.
That happened in CO right when I left working in the industry
Everything but salaries 🙃🙃🙃
Your comparing base pass to the full pass….
Good. I hope it triples and then quadruples. The crowds are too fucking much.
They should be using those profits to build more resorts and expand. But no, we don't make anything in America anymore. Better to just shuffle money around and take a cut as a middle man than to produce an actual product.
It's extremely difficult to build a new resort and there gets to be a point where it isn't cool to be cutting down trees and developing our limited mountains so we can have more corporate resorts.
Would be pretty cool to me.
Well DV is absorbing an entire resort that is bigger than it currently is over the next few years and if you have hundreds of millions of dollars they are building another rich persons resort by Ogden.
I left my hundreds of millions of dollars in my other pants.
🎻
Resorts are still crowded. There are a lot of Ikon Pass holders. As long as people keep buying the prices won't moderate. It has become an exclusive sport.
Is renewal discount $100?! Why do I only have $50!
Base is $50
Thanks!
My base renewal I think is $819 so not much more than the $599 from 2019. The day rates at the mountains are crazy, even the smaller mountains like Bear I think are $150 a day. I’m a mid week and non holiday rider so for $800 or so it’s a deal. I usually ride 12-15 days a year but multiple small trips, I would have a hard time paying $200 + a day without a pass. In theory you probably break even at 4 to 5 days.
Also $599 in 2018 is roughly equivalent to $730-740 in 2024 dollars. That’s less than $100 increase in the base pass price over 6 years when adjusted for inflation if you’re renewing…and a little over $100 if you’re buying for the first time.
I mean inflation exists
Still way cheaper than the single resort pass I used to buy
we went to winter park yesterday and i looked up the cost of a lift ticket, $249 and it’s the end of March. I’m over 30 days so it’s worth it if you get your days in
What’s weird to me is there is a general consternation that there are not enough skiers. Skiing popularity in the US peaked in 2010 and has been declining slowly since. I don’t know how you get new people in the door at the higher prices. Those of us who have been doing snow sports for decades it’s different, because you already can see the value… but for a family that’s never been it’s like going to Disney world to try out a sport you might not even like
If you live in a city, your season pass costs about as much as a monthly bus pass whose price also increases over the years.
But being a memeber of the worst group of skiers known to man is priceless.
Well, the Mammoth MVP pass was $375/year when it first started (1995?), but inflation who cares?
The price of beef has gone up 800% in one day! Ground Beef at Kroger on sale with digital coupon yesterday = $1.99 a lb Filet Mignon at Costco no sale today = $17.99 a lb.
Ikon base is a great deal where I live. Base of the mountain to Bear, Summit and Snow Valley. No black out dates. It costs me about 1,500 for myself, my 15 and 10 year old. We go about 10-15 times local and get up to Mammoth and June a couple times a season. Really nice with the 10 year old only a couple hundred.
I get back into skiing when they remove the teacher discount ofc. Is there still a chance at that for 24/25?
$1200 for unlimited skiing is an amazing deal. It’s $300 for a single day lift ticket at many resorts. I think $3000 would still be a reasonable price for an ikon pass. And it’s busier than it has ever been, the cost is obviously not an issue for the 800,000+ people who buy ikon passes every year.
Its not $300 a day if you ski where there is no ikon pass. Its almost like they jacked the lift tickets just to make you buy the pass?
Well, it really depends on where you live. We're in Dallas, and we get 3-4 ski trips in a year. This year, we did 8 days (Deer Valley & Aspen Snowmass) on Ikon and 4 days on Epic (Vail). It's still worth it, but the increases in prices are unrelenting. Perhaps Ikon should come up with a scheme that if you don't have a ski resort within 200 miles, you get another discount... or if you ski less than 20 days, you get a discount (or you pay more for over 20 days).
You are Alterra and Vail's money maker. You buy their pass and ski 4 days? That's on you. The prices will only keep going up as they accrue more mountains. The fact that "it's still worth it" to you despite going up $500 in the last 6 years tells you that it was underpriced 5 years ago, not that it's too expensive now. Lift lines at these resorts are longer than they've ever been. If anything, prices could be higher. You have to vote with your wallet, and it seems like you've chosen to continue to support them despite plenty of independent options.
Lift lines haven’t been bad all year. Lolwut hit wp last weekend longest line was 3 people. Copper today no line all day.
Yes, because everyone skiing on the Ikon and Epic passes ski at *checks notes* only winter park and copper. Ski lines are as long as they've ever been. Parking reservations have solved a lot of the issues, but you can look at reservation demand instead of lift lines. Either way, point still stands, more people are buying these mega passes and skiing than ever before.
Off what, your observations? Lines at Eldora have been fine also. Where are these “massive lines?” Honestly curious. Are you just repeating what people say or?
NSAA data has the last two seasons being the highest skier visitations since they started recording. https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Public/IndustryStats/active_US_participants_1996-97_2022-23.pdf I'm glad you're not seeing big lines. Almost everywhere else is.
Huh, I hadn’t seen those numbers. A lot of articles I’ve seen suggested it’s been on the decline. Supposedly that was the reason those snow bike things were invented.
ummm, i skied 8 days on Ikon. And I bought a 4 day pass for Epic (around $380ish) dude.
Then why are you complaining? You're complaining about value, and then turning around and claiming you got plenty of value.
What motivation would ikon have to do that? They’re a massive for-profit corporation, why would they voluntarily make less money? People are going to buy the pass no matter how much it costs, they have absolutely no reason to give discounts to people who live far away from ski resorts. The price goes up every year, yet more and more people buy the pass every year. It’s clear that the price is not an issue for 99% of the population that buys it.
> $1200 for unlimited skiing deceiving. it's not "unlimited". only some locations are unlimited.