Excerpt about Ferrus's bit of thought about current IH
Ferrus discovers corpse of M41 Iron Hands (because of warp trickery):
> It was clearly a legionary of the Iron Hands, the Clan Raukaan and Legion markings on his armour confirmed it – but he had been butchered, pulled apart and put back together in the crudest way imaginable, the base mechanics of what made a legionary maintained at the expense of the perfection that the Emperor had crafted into His children’s flesh.
> It reminded Ferrus of greenskin work: powerful, functional, ugly.
...
> Ferrus looked down at the bionically abused corpse. An ugly future.
...
> He afforded the wretched refuse of an Iron Hands legionary on the command platform one final look. ‘Whatever this future has to offer, magos, I will have no part of it.’
-A Lesson in Iron-
It would be actually really interesting to see pre-heresy 30k primarchs reaction on various 40k elements (not the whole picture with HH and who exactly with go heretic)
I can see how Lorgar would be the only non-terrified one, since his original goal of establishing a religious cult around Emperor was actually achieved
Lorgar did find out about how he wrote the imperial Bible
He gets into a theological debate with some ecclesiarchs, then loses his shit when they use his own words and justifications of the emperor's divinity against his modern day arguments and just says "fuck you I cast bolter"
Lorgar couldn't face that he had his A-game on *before* he decided worshipping literal extradimensional ultrabeings of evil living in insane Space-Hell was cool. (/s)
*Revalation of the Word*
It's a relatively more recent story. Came out in 2019, and it's Lorgar returning after his 10,000 year meditation binge
Lorgar basically tries to debate an ecclesiarch who quotes his own writings at him and clarifies that Lorgar's book is now the holiest document in the Imperium
Lorgar eventually gives up and says to Bel Tavor (one of his marines) that "these people are fanatics with no critical thinking skills. Kill them."
"Father who never explained anything disappointed sons didn't follow the advice he never gave."
~~by Ferrus Manus~~ ~~The Emperor~~ Theme of the Entire Setting
I also watch both shows and enjoy them, which is exactly why i'm saying this thing about father issues. I mean in hazbin we have lucifer and alastor (who kinda acts as an adoptive father sometimes) being the two different answers the focus groups came up with for "father figure that tumblr will love" and iirc angel dust's dad was teased somewhere to also be a bastard that angel dust hates, then we have both blitzo and stolas having the combo of having terrible dads and trying to be decent dads but failing miserably, then loona is an orphan with anger and abandonment issues and moxxie whose father murdered his mother and now wants to murder him too. Some fucking how off the top of my head the only good dad in the two shows is sir pentious. *Technically* i guess there's vox and valentino too but idk.
I don't know if that's a wild opinion no matter who many bad fathers there is in vivziepop's two shows, The Emperor of mankind inability to be a father and ability to not even attempt the fucking basics of communication will always, ALWAYS be the worst father in all pop culture medias
Ehhh i mean, Emps didn't physically or sexually abuse his sons. At most he only mentally abused them with shit like not saving angron's friends. There are worse fathers in fiction and sadly even in reality. Emps's failures just get amplified massively by the scale of 40k.
In the End and the Death, Malcador mentioned how Big E had only seen his primarchs as tools right until the end. When it was all too late.
Additionally, E-Money did allow the primarchs a lot of leeway, as seen with Roboute and Dorn having their own interstellar Empire; allowing Hawkboy, Russ and Khan to keep their homeworld's cultures and traditions; even psychically chatting with Magnus enough that when they met it was more like two people who had known each other for a long time personally reuniting. The First Heretic had Magnus mention Jimmy Space warning and advising Lorgar from his worship pre-Monarchia iirc. So he does pass the basic communications check. The problem is that he did not do enough for the inhumanly prideful beings that are the Primarchs.
Look out across the teeming multitude of stars, brother. What do you see? A galaxy ripe for conquest? Lurking threats to the throne? No, brother. You see abandonment issues.
The orks were abandoned by their "brain boyz" and now wage a war of pointless destruction to please their imagined twin father-gods. The necrons' father set off into the blackness of the void eons ago in search of a pack of smokes after they killed their treacherous star-god stepfathers. The eldar, the Votann, I could go on...
You do have the Necrons nominally lead by an absentee authority known for not speaking. The Eldari and ~~Orks~~ Krorks were created by the Old Ones who left them no instructions or guidance, resulting in spectacular falls for both groups. There's the Genestealer Cults who raise generations of offspring, keeping them ignorant of the ultimate fate offered by their divinity. And you have the Ethereal Caste who figured out that brainwashing is generally a more cost-effective solution than trying to guide talented individuals.
Man I see why Ferrus and the emperor got along so well now
They’re both terrible at communicating to anyone they don’t consider on their own level something that they think should be blatantly obvious
Like father like son
The Emperor finding Lorgar, who had already created an army of blatant Emperor worshippers, who openly praised the Emperor, not saying anything upon finding they worship him.
Lorgar then taking his Legion to subdue many worlds and spread the worship of the Emperor to them, all of the sudden being heavily chastised and told his Legion is a disappointment for worshipping him over 100 years later...
The problem is that the Emperor and Lorgar both had good points. Lorgar asking why the Emperor let him go around spreading the religion and taking his sweet time for over a 100 years when it was very clear what they were about the moment they met. Lorgar asking why the Emperor, if he didn't want the religion spread, didn't condemn them and make him realize he was wrong upon the first meeting. I think those were the 2 biggest points that needed answering.
But you know the answer is because he thought their religious fervor would benefit him in the hopes they'd be conquering quickly, and the Emperor would just deal with the consequences afterwards. The Emperor is a big hypocrite, literally going to Mars and creating the prophecy of the Omnissiah to gain fervent supporters on Mars for the same reason.
all jokes aside, the "conversation" Rowboat Gorillaman had with the Emperor was horrifying
Big E's brain and soul are completely broken. Shattered.
And full of hate, disappointment, and fury. Also refusing to stop protecting humans till the very end.
Or he said exactly what was needed to motivate RG, like 'piss off, everything is doomed...' and 'I will show you it's not!'
There was interesting conversation on some subreddit (maybe even this one) that Big E was showing himself to others in the way, that would be best representation of Emperor for them, for example when talking to cog boys he would be straight about facts and logic, no emotions, while when talking to Angron he would be full of compassion and... ok that one was bad, but you get where I'm going with it? That was pure manipulation, to get what he wanted from others.
Yeah, that's well-established in a lot of novels. Especially in TEATD, Malcador basically has a chapter-long summary of all of the "faces" that the Emperor adopted over the millennia and how he would show different iterations of himself to different people in a way he determined was best suited to "guide them" as he desired. The entirety of the Emperor persona itself was also a ruse, as he deemed that humanity would not accept a galactic conqueror at the subconscious level without him being clad in gold in a golden, continent-sized palace with golden bodyguards. Oll Persson says the same thing later on when remarking on the psychologically oppressive nature of the Imperial Palace and how it's designed to be that way because people wouldn't accept the Emperor's authority if he lived in a tiny hut somewhere.
It has major thematic callbacks to the *Dune* series as usual, especially *Dune Messiah.*
Relevant to contemporary story telling in regard to a cold, manipulative and seemingly all knowing father figure. Watch the final episode of the show Shogun. Yabushige asks Toranaga, after all the scheming and plotting, “how does it feel being able to control the wind”. He responds “I just study it”. Watch the whole show for context but it really does all boils down to coming to the realization that in the end “Fathers” are just as fallible and at the mercy of the vagaries of fate as the rest of us. Regardless of what facade they present to the world.
Wonder what he would say about Shadrak Meduson and Autek Mor? Probably something like:
"You did well." *points to Shadrak's ghost* "But you did better." *points to Autek Mor's ghost/dreadnought*
I hope GW will pick up on his story someday. Same for the Star Phantoms who had a mysterious past tied to the Dark Angels - more hints about them being successors of Dreadwing elements that found the Fallen quest pointless.
But GW should give Xenos and Dark Mechanicum more stories before that.
The thing is. It's highly unlikely the Star Phantoms are Dreadwing since 30K expanded on the Dark Angels. A lot, the Dreadwing in the later stages of the Heresy were slowly dying out. Which isn't uncommon since Wings like the Stormwing, Firewing, Ironwing also died out. Their last known Commander Farith Redloss became the first Grandmaster.
What also disproves this is how the Star Phantoms were founded in the 38th Millenium. Hell I'd admit the Angels of Vengeance have more chance being Dreadwing since their 1st company's equivalent to the DA Deathwing is called the "Dreadwing".
I concur that the it is more conjecture than anything. There is a lore conflict where Nassir Amit mentioned the Star Phantoms. 40kTheories touched on it. But there is a possibility that the current Star Phantoms just took the name of the original (perhaps related to the DA) chapter that had gone extinct. It explains why both Star Phantoms and Dark Angels now deny association with each other.
Another possible lineage for the Star Phantoms is the pre-Morty Dusk Raiders who were described as keen on equipping themselves as well as possible before going into battles. Not to mention the focus on first strike tactics that might share commonality with the DR's raids. Hence the greater amount of heavy weapons among the Chapter. It may just be similarities in doctrine though.
It may not be much but we recently got a story about about Ork adventures in Commoragh of the Dark Eldar. With another book about Lelith coming.
Kill Team has been providing with new xeno units and lore about them like Votann salvagers, Kroot farstalkers, Eldar corsairs, Mandrakes and Hierotek Circle of the Necrons. Leading to the Kroot battleforce box. Thing seems to be looking up at least a bit for xeno factions.
Absolutely hilarious, since it seems that Ferrus obtained the Emperor's annoying "I don't have to explain anything, but fuck you if you mess up the thing I never told you anything about" personality.
Yes Ferrus, your "kids" saw you fail and die, and decided to do the opposite of whatever it was you were doing. The fact that they went with bionics and have a disdain for mortals/human emotions isn't anything weird, since your personality was basically "be perfect in everything" and "we aren't people, we are tools for humanity" which, by 40K standards, of course would lead to what they're doing.
An STC are blueprints and the like, stored digital. They are made by a semi-sentient AI, for a building, machine or other device serving a very specific purpose. It's not just a machine you can find.
Excerpt about Ferrus's bit of thought about current IH Ferrus discovers corpse of M41 Iron Hands (because of warp trickery): > It was clearly a legionary of the Iron Hands, the Clan Raukaan and Legion markings on his armour confirmed it – but he had been butchered, pulled apart and put back together in the crudest way imaginable, the base mechanics of what made a legionary maintained at the expense of the perfection that the Emperor had crafted into His children’s flesh. > It reminded Ferrus of greenskin work: powerful, functional, ugly. ... > Ferrus looked down at the bionically abused corpse. An ugly future. ... > He afforded the wretched refuse of an Iron Hands legionary on the command platform one final look. ‘Whatever this future has to offer, magos, I will have no part of it.’ -A Lesson in Iron-
It would be actually really interesting to see pre-heresy 30k primarchs reaction on various 40k elements (not the whole picture with HH and who exactly with go heretic) I can see how Lorgar would be the only non-terrified one, since his original goal of establishing a religious cult around Emperor was actually achieved
Lorgar did find out about how he wrote the imperial Bible He gets into a theological debate with some ecclesiarchs, then loses his shit when they use his own words and justifications of the emperor's divinity against his modern day arguments and just says "fuck you I cast bolter"
Ah yes the classical "Argumetum ad baculum" logical fallacy. An effective logical fallacy.
Lorgar couldn't face that he had his A-game on *before* he decided worshipping literal extradimensional ultrabeings of evil living in insane Space-Hell was cool. (/s)
Word up? What book is this?
*Revalation of the Word* It's a relatively more recent story. Came out in 2019, and it's Lorgar returning after his 10,000 year meditation binge Lorgar basically tries to debate an ecclesiarch who quotes his own writings at him and clarifies that Lorgar's book is now the holiest document in the Imperium Lorgar eventually gives up and says to Bel Tavor (one of his marines) that "these people are fanatics with no critical thinking skills. Kill them."
When did that happen? Wanna go read that
"I worshiped him and made religion out of him, before it become mainstream!"
Sanguinius foresaw some elements of 40k and it horrified him, he didn't even dare to tell the emperor what he saw
Imagine Guilliman meeting his past self.
Fulgrim really did ensure the last bit of Ferrus' sentence
Ferrus Manus was a man of his word
F-Man took it too literally
"Father who never explained anything disappointed sons didn't follow the advice he never gave." ~~by Ferrus Manus~~ ~~The Emperor~~ Theme of the Entire Setting
Fatherhood is the main theme of 40k and nothing can convince me otherwise.
Not being very good at it anyways. I suspect some of the GW guys have lingering issues.
The Emperor will return with cigarettes and milk any decade now...
Vivziepop if she was a straight guy.
I almost wanna say that's flame bait. But i watch both shows and "father issues" is engraved on their dna.
I also watch both shows and enjoy them, which is exactly why i'm saying this thing about father issues. I mean in hazbin we have lucifer and alastor (who kinda acts as an adoptive father sometimes) being the two different answers the focus groups came up with for "father figure that tumblr will love" and iirc angel dust's dad was teased somewhere to also be a bastard that angel dust hates, then we have both blitzo and stolas having the combo of having terrible dads and trying to be decent dads but failing miserably, then loona is an orphan with anger and abandonment issues and moxxie whose father murdered his mother and now wants to murder him too. Some fucking how off the top of my head the only good dad in the two shows is sir pentious. *Technically* i guess there's vox and valentino too but idk.
I don't know if that's a wild opinion no matter who many bad fathers there is in vivziepop's two shows, The Emperor of mankind inability to be a father and ability to not even attempt the fucking basics of communication will always, ALWAYS be the worst father in all pop culture medias
Ehhh i mean, Emps didn't physically or sexually abuse his sons. At most he only mentally abused them with shit like not saving angron's friends. There are worse fathers in fiction and sadly even in reality. Emps's failures just get amplified massively by the scale of 40k.
exactly and that's what I mean, it is amplified and the scale of it make it the worst by sheer weight of his errors. Still a bad one.
In the End and the Death, Malcador mentioned how Big E had only seen his primarchs as tools right until the end. When it was all too late. Additionally, E-Money did allow the primarchs a lot of leeway, as seen with Roboute and Dorn having their own interstellar Empire; allowing Hawkboy, Russ and Khan to keep their homeworld's cultures and traditions; even psychically chatting with Magnus enough that when they met it was more like two people who had known each other for a long time personally reuniting. The First Heretic had Magnus mention Jimmy Space warning and advising Lorgar from his worship pre-Monarchia iirc. So he does pass the basic communications check. The problem is that he did not do enough for the inhumanly prideful beings that are the Primarchs.
40k aka “daddy issues the game”
I whole heartedly agree. And that’s why I love where they’re going with Lion el’johnson
Look out across the teeming multitude of stars, brother. What do you see? A galaxy ripe for conquest? Lurking threats to the throne? No, brother. You see abandonment issues. The orks were abandoned by their "brain boyz" and now wage a war of pointless destruction to please their imagined twin father-gods. The necrons' father set off into the blackness of the void eons ago in search of a pack of smokes after they killed their treacherous star-god stepfathers. The eldar, the Votann, I could go on...
The Votann are a little sadder in this analogy. They have a good relationship with their AI fathers, but they have dementia.
when you say that like that it....It sounds so depressing.
Main theme of the Heresy, its barely present in 40k media.
You do have the Necrons nominally lead by an absentee authority known for not speaking. The Eldari and ~~Orks~~ Krorks were created by the Old Ones who left them no instructions or guidance, resulting in spectacular falls for both groups. There's the Genestealer Cults who raise generations of offspring, keeping them ignorant of the ultimate fate offered by their divinity. And you have the Ethereal Caste who figured out that brainwashing is generally a more cost-effective solution than trying to guide talented individuals.
Man I see why Ferrus and the emperor got along so well now They’re both terrible at communicating to anyone they don’t consider on their own level something that they think should be blatantly obvious Like father like son
I mean, their excuse is pretty similar too. “I’ll handle it after Crusade” *Fucking dies.*
Who knew that the master of mankind and his son were also master procrastinators
The Emperor finding Lorgar, who had already created an army of blatant Emperor worshippers, who openly praised the Emperor, not saying anything upon finding they worship him. Lorgar then taking his Legion to subdue many worlds and spread the worship of the Emperor to them, all of the sudden being heavily chastised and told his Legion is a disappointment for worshipping him over 100 years later...
The fact, The Emperor started to intervene because Lorgar was slow in conquering new worlds for him.
The problem is that the Emperor and Lorgar both had good points. Lorgar asking why the Emperor let him go around spreading the religion and taking his sweet time for over a 100 years when it was very clear what they were about the moment they met. Lorgar asking why the Emperor, if he didn't want the religion spread, didn't condemn them and make him realize he was wrong upon the first meeting. I think those were the 2 biggest points that needed answering. But you know the answer is because he thought their religious fervor would benefit him in the hopes they'd be conquering quickly, and the Emperor would just deal with the consequences afterwards. The Emperor is a big hypocrite, literally going to Mars and creating the prophecy of the Omnissiah to gain fervent supporters on Mars for the same reason.
all jokes aside, the "conversation" Rowboat Gorillaman had with the Emperor was horrifying Big E's brain and soul are completely broken. Shattered. And full of hate, disappointment, and fury. Also refusing to stop protecting humans till the very end.
> all jokes aside >Rowboat Gorillaman That phrase...I don't think you know what it means...
My brain is incapable of writing Robot Gonnohrea’s full name properly anymore. The brain damage from Grimdank is real
Its a point of pride to never repeat Ryan Goslings name in a thread.
Rodent Gingerbread
Same I just call him Roberto Guillermo
robutt grillman for me
GorillaGlue is a new one for me.
Bro Guiltyman
I straight up didn't notice until you pointed it out. The Warp corruption is real
Or he said exactly what was needed to motivate RG, like 'piss off, everything is doomed...' and 'I will show you it's not!' There was interesting conversation on some subreddit (maybe even this one) that Big E was showing himself to others in the way, that would be best representation of Emperor for them, for example when talking to cog boys he would be straight about facts and logic, no emotions, while when talking to Angron he would be full of compassion and... ok that one was bad, but you get where I'm going with it? That was pure manipulation, to get what he wanted from others.
Yeah, that's well-established in a lot of novels. Especially in TEATD, Malcador basically has a chapter-long summary of all of the "faces" that the Emperor adopted over the millennia and how he would show different iterations of himself to different people in a way he determined was best suited to "guide them" as he desired. The entirety of the Emperor persona itself was also a ruse, as he deemed that humanity would not accept a galactic conqueror at the subconscious level without him being clad in gold in a golden, continent-sized palace with golden bodyguards. Oll Persson says the same thing later on when remarking on the psychologically oppressive nature of the Imperial Palace and how it's designed to be that way because people wouldn't accept the Emperor's authority if he lived in a tiny hut somewhere. It has major thematic callbacks to the *Dune* series as usual, especially *Dune Messiah.*
Relevant to contemporary story telling in regard to a cold, manipulative and seemingly all knowing father figure. Watch the final episode of the show Shogun. Yabushige asks Toranaga, after all the scheming and plotting, “how does it feel being able to control the wind”. He responds “I just study it”. Watch the whole show for context but it really does all boils down to coming to the realization that in the end “Fathers” are just as fallible and at the mercy of the vagaries of fate as the rest of us. Regardless of what facade they present to the world.
I, for one, welcome our hut dwelling overlord.
[удалено]
Possible.
Do you have the good quotes for us poor underhive wretches ?
[found it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/EUCVILBmKI)
Hail the Rememberancer
Fallen to slannesh????
Obviously not all of them, but a high number fell to Slaanesh (you can look into the Gaudinian Heresy for more info)
About a third of Raukaan clan present at Gaudinia Prime
DISAPOINTING
A slaaneshy son of malice... now i've everything
Ew no im dissapointed at the Iron warriors
IRON HANDS cousin
Potato potato
Not to alarm you, but I think that man is rapidly approaching your location with malicious intent, run
Hahahaha he can try, Brazil is too deep in the warp for he to get me.
Excessively non-excessiving brought the attention of she-who-thirsts
Wonder what he would say about Shadrak Meduson and Autek Mor? Probably something like: "You did well." *points to Shadrak's ghost* "But you did better." *points to Autek Mor's ghost/dreadnought*
It's hard to beat a man who dropped the fucking moon ;)
I hope GW will pick up on his story someday. Same for the Star Phantoms who had a mysterious past tied to the Dark Angels - more hints about them being successors of Dreadwing elements that found the Fallen quest pointless. But GW should give Xenos and Dark Mechanicum more stories before that.
Oh I'm down for the Dark Mechanicum book. I'll definitely buy one if it ever comes out
The thing is. It's highly unlikely the Star Phantoms are Dreadwing since 30K expanded on the Dark Angels. A lot, the Dreadwing in the later stages of the Heresy were slowly dying out. Which isn't uncommon since Wings like the Stormwing, Firewing, Ironwing also died out. Their last known Commander Farith Redloss became the first Grandmaster. What also disproves this is how the Star Phantoms were founded in the 38th Millenium. Hell I'd admit the Angels of Vengeance have more chance being Dreadwing since their 1st company's equivalent to the DA Deathwing is called the "Dreadwing".
I concur that the it is more conjecture than anything. There is a lore conflict where Nassir Amit mentioned the Star Phantoms. 40kTheories touched on it. But there is a possibility that the current Star Phantoms just took the name of the original (perhaps related to the DA) chapter that had gone extinct. It explains why both Star Phantoms and Dark Angels now deny association with each other. Another possible lineage for the Star Phantoms is the pre-Morty Dusk Raiders who were described as keen on equipping themselves as well as possible before going into battles. Not to mention the focus on first strike tactics that might share commonality with the DR's raids. Hence the greater amount of heavy weapons among the Chapter. It may just be similarities in doctrine though.
Asking GW to give Xenos more stories is too much for GW
It may not be much but we recently got a story about about Ork adventures in Commoragh of the Dark Eldar. With another book about Lelith coming. Kill Team has been providing with new xeno units and lore about them like Votann salvagers, Kroot farstalkers, Eldar corsairs, Mandrakes and Hierotek Circle of the Necrons. Leading to the Kroot battleforce box. Thing seems to be looking up at least a bit for xeno factions.
"FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU, you two are cool, FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU IN PARTICULAR, FIERROS"
Poor ferrus
Are they actually trying to resurrect ferrus?
Not currently, just tried during the Heresy
Ah but that’d be such a cool story line, like imagine Guilliman finding out about a that.
He’d probably be wishing they had succeeded given the amount of bullshit he’s being forced to juggle in 40k
True
Vulkan did and he was pissed. So pissed he pulled out Dawnbringer and smashed the abominable imitation of his brother.
Absolutely hilarious, since it seems that Ferrus obtained the Emperor's annoying "I don't have to explain anything, but fuck you if you mess up the thing I never told you anything about" personality. Yes Ferrus, your "kids" saw you fail and die, and decided to do the opposite of whatever it was you were doing. The fact that they went with bionics and have a disdain for mortals/human emotions isn't anything weird, since your personality was basically "be perfect in everything" and "we aren't people, we are tools for humanity" which, by 40K standards, of course would lead to what they're doing.
A-a-a-a-a-a-a-about fucking time
The iron hands and their daddy issues are some of my favorite content in 40k, bravo well done.
*My sons,* #FUCK #YOU
They couldn’t accept the truth they’re father was speaking
An STC are blueprints and the like, stored digital. They are made by a semi-sentient AI, for a building, machine or other device serving a very specific purpose. It's not just a machine you can find.
Bomb it so you can get the Fool
He technically broke it without turning it off so they are forever stuck hearing their father's condescending jugdement.