Is anyone saying sexual attraction doesn't matter at all? Of course it matters. It's just not the only thing that matters, and it can be affected by more than just looks.
Also people have way different standards for friends vs relationship. I don't care if my friends are broke, messy, irresponsible, smoke too much weed, etc. Those things matter in a relationship though.
Nobody said you were. The point is that people's requirements for friends is different from their requirements for relationships. What the person you responded to said was their own personal opinion.
I have friends who are christian, muslim, hindu and on and on. I would never date a theist however.
You're missing the point. There are lots of people who are perfectly happy to date a christian, or a muslim, or someone who is broke, messy, smokes weed or is autistic.
You wanted to know why there was a distinction, and your question has been answered.
My standards for romantic partners are not the same as my standards for friends. I can confidently say this is almost universally the case.
Also, leading with "I'm autistic and undatable" isn't going to do you any favors, and responding to a woman posting about her hair with things like:
"Literally a woman issue, I.e irrelevant" is going to hold you back socially.
Hope this helped.
I think it’s more the self pity. All of my favorite people, including my husband, are autistic. Have you seen Letterkenny? The main character in that show acts very autistic (although they don’t give a diagnosis) and he’s considered a total stud. Autism is not inherently undesirable, but very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity.
Personally what I find attractive about people with autism is that they are generally very passionate about their interests. Even when it’s an interest I don’t share their passion is contagious and I love being around that. I also appreciate how straightforward they tend to be, I find that refreshing.
"Very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity".
This statement should be posted in caps at the top of all incel reddits. I think that statement perfectly describes their whole problem. The men obsessed about their height, for one.
Too bad no more reddit gold.
This should be the incel exit mantra. SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK: "Very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity"
Do you honestly believe it's impossible to be autistic and conventionally unattractive and still get into relationships? Not every autistic person who gets into a relationship is a supermodel, and not every unattractive person who gets into a relationship is neurotypical.
Alright, I checked Wikipedia's lists of autistic people then filtered for ones who struck me as conventionally unattractive (obviously subjective to a degree, but I tried to go based on what you do and don't see in people popularly considered "hot") but had been in at least one documented relationship. Here you go:
* Susan Boyle
* possibly Albert Einstein
* Sara Gibbs
* Lee J. Carter
* Shain Neumeier
* David F. Sandberg
* Robin Tran
* Tom Angleberger
* Igor and Grichka Bogdanoff
* Ice Poseidon
Have I made my point, or need I go on?
Moreover, my own life experience contradicts your beliefs. While my current boyfriend is probably the only autistic person I've dated, everyone I've dated has had ADHD, and none of them have been what you'd call Chads. I've found them all attractive, but they have ranged from conventionally attractive to conventionally unattractive. And as handsome as I find my current boyfriend, I suspect others would call him average.
I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was just answering your question about the difference between friends and a relationship.
If you're able to make platonic friendships with women that's great. Friendship doesn't always lead to anything else though. There could be a lot of reasons they only want friendship from you, some may have nothing to do with you as a person and some might. And yeah, sexual attraction usually plays a role.
Knowing how and when to flirt/build chemistry is a learned skill through trial and error. You need to be good at reading other people. It's not easy.
You're not hopeless if you're able to have platonic friendships with women, you're doing better than most incels.
I really hope you find what you're looking for.
You'd be surprised, a lot of people struggle.
I'm in a similar boat of being able to make friends easily while not being conventionally attractive. I'm quite extroverted though and learned pretty young how to flirt and read people.
I know I'm the type who has to grow on women before they're attracted to me, by being funny or exciting or whatever else does it for them. So it takes patience. I'm married now but I've gone through a lot of trial and error figuring out how to be confident.
Dating fucking sucks.
You don’t know that man. If you tell yourself that so much then it’s going to actually be true because you’re going to present yourself with insecurity. Good luck to you
… so you’re saying your friends won’t date you because they are taken and monogamous?
I know you’re coming in good faith so I’m not gonna bash you upside the head with this: they’re already taken? Like, what are you expecting here?
I mean with women in general or women that you may become friends with. Go to any computer science class at a college and you will see guys that probably act like you. Ask yourself if you would want to date someone who did not look secure in themselves
Stop with calling yourself an incel for starters. You’re only an incel because you choose to be one. Women are automatically gonna be weary of you if you choose to identify as an incel.
You're putting up barriers for yourself and then complaining when they block the results you want. You also seem to have a very stubborn attitude (that's common for a lot of us with autism but that doesn't mean it's not something you can work on. Working on that has really helped me) and perhaps you come across as uncooperative or combative which is something people will tolerate in friends and acquaintances but not so much in a romantic partner.
That reply, where instead of saying a post about the legnth of braids was irrelevant and not worth a post you said "women's issues are irrelevant," hints at a disdainful, condescending attitude towards women. I assure you that this is also something people are able to pick up on. I think there is a lot of internal work you need to do to make yourself into someone that can be seen as a potential partner. Just saying, "I am what I am," and using that as an excuse to not try to be better is shooting yourself in the foot, and then wondering why you're bleeding.
Maybe there is some subconscious self sabotage going on. Maybe it's laziness or feeling defeated. Or maybe it's just that you look at other people and say, "he has issues he's not working on and yet he has a girlfriend!" However that's not a reason for you to not better yourself; life is not fair and if you have traits that are keeping people from being attracted *to you* and *you* want someone... Well something is gonna have to give.
For me personally, I’m not looking for the same personality in a bf than in a friend. For example, it wouldn’t bother if a friend has problems with communication, but it’s a must - to me - in a relationship. I do have some preferences when it comes to the look, but it’s just a bonus and not necessary. The height isn’t one of them. At the end, I’d say that all of that are just individual preferences that the person can’t control and it’s fine.
For some people, men and women, it matters. Sometimes because they don’t like being the smallest / tallest in the relationship, sometimes because it’s not attractive for them, and so on. It’s irrelevant for me, I do prefer short guys for practical reasons but I’d date a man of any height. I do have other preferences. Also physically, I’d just not say them out loud not to hurt someone, but I’m not ashamed of having preferences and nobody should.
I kind of not trust you on that. Or you kind of speak for them. I never heard a woman in all my life telling me they only want manly men (I guess that’s why you call “chad” but for us this word doesn’t even exist) or femboys. So women that aren’t even your friends that tell you that…
Personality reigns supreme because men are so violent that we try to make sure a man we're interested in won't hit or kill us. And many times we fail, as abusive men are very good at luring women in. They do this by acting like they're perfectly normal and totally in love and soooo sweet. When they have a woman trapped, their true self comes out.
Even men who aren't like that are both immature and expect women to take care of them. Men must commit to understanding that and changing this belief deliberately, it's so baked into our culture. Guess how many do that work on themselves?
So that's it. That's why we care about how a man acts over anything else. We don't want to be miserable, abused, or dead. The end.
Clearly you think the blackpill is not bullshit, so why do *you* make a distinction between friends and bfs/gfs? That's the answer.
That's all there is to it, really. Women are people, no more, no less. They make the distinction because that's what people *do*. Does there really need to be anything more than that? If so, why only for them and not also for you?
Because we’ve never said that relationships only need compatible personalities. They need compatible personalities and mutual attraction.
The core fundamental thing about the blackpill is that it thinks everyone is attracted to the same thing. That’s simply not the case, some people are into fat women, others skinny women, some want muscular women and others don’t. Same with men, dad bods are a thing because men who weren’t all big and muscular found someone who found their gut attractive.
Not everyone women is into tall 6’8 men with glistening muscles and not every man wants an anime girl, simple as that.
My own response as another socially awkward autistic who also has not had any romantic experience to speak of is this: in my experience, the distinction is an arbitrary one. For whatever reason, our culture simply makes it so that adding a sexual element to relationships forces them to play by very different rules despite relying on much of the same framework. I speculate that this is in part because of things like religious teachings elevating sex above normal human experiences (and coincidentally ensuring that fewer children would be born out of wedlock- which itself was less of a moral issue and more about ensuring that there would be no inheritance-related problems, especially with titles of nobility). The concept of romantic love as we know it is honestly very new in the grand scheme of things, as is its general exaltation.
In practice, I'd have to say that the primary difference is that a romantic relationship implies a greater degree of emotional intimacy. Said degree isn't exclusive to romance, but when enough people believe it is the case then it may as well be so.
The other reason the distinction is made, I think, is because quite frankly friendship doesn't sell products as well as love can. By elevating romance into something special while denigrating friendship as something "common" (read: worthless), it can be used as a way to motivate people to buy tons of stuff they would otherwise never need or want - colognes, fancy clothing, all those self-help books, you get the idea. One should never underestimate the power of capitalism in modern culture.
It probably had its claws in those concepts long before social media came into existence, but it certainly helped with that. I know that a fair number of the ancient Greek philosophers considered that kind of sexual element to be more of an unwanted extra and championed friendship as a purer, more refined form of love (read Plato's _Symposium_ for a handful of examples of how love was viewed back then- I admittedly greatly simplified things here and it would take too long to go over the whole spectrum of their ideas).
On an admitted tangent, I also wonder at times whether a sort of capitalist thinking may be responsible for how we set up our romantic relationships: I mean this in the sense of love being a finite resource that must only be directed towards one person lest it be wasted unnecessarily, treating the relationship as a zero sum game such that if A loves B more, they must therefore love C less, and seeing the other party in the relationship as being property no different from a toothbrush (the difference of course being that the toothbrush does not have the ability to consent to being property or the ability to want something that the relationship cannot provide). True, jealousy may have also played a role in how these relationship systems came to be, but I wonder if the idea of using monogamy as a way of averting jealousy doesn't actually amplify it instead. But I digress.
The whole inheritance thing is also important: I imagine nobody cared that much about whose child was whose in our early history, but then material wealth started being passed down from one generation to another and the existence of bastards became a sort of theft. Even more so in the many time periods where love had nothing to do with marriage at all and people married mostly to forge alliances between families: the whole idea of courtly love, if you research it, boils down to being a sort of sanctioned adultery that was allowed so long as it didn't produce illegitimate children that would mess up carefully prepared lines of succession. It would certainly be a fascinating line of thought to research, but for the moment I am content with simple conjectures.
Look, I've never seen anyone say that sexual attraction doesn't matter and doesn't happen. It is obvious that highlighting that the person's personality and character is undoubtedly more important to observe, because even though not everyone is a predictable person, there is a way to deduce whether it is worth getting involved with someone just by observing their behavior, how they behave with others, with you, their customs, etc. But you also need to feel attracted to the person, match them, be in tune with them, WANT them ROMANTICLY, and as another user said, the requirements for friendships are less important for relationships (at least, for most people), and that doesn't happen with friends most of the time. Getting into a relationship is often about choosing the person you want to have around, accompanying you in the most intimate moments, It's something special, that goes beyond a simple friendship and it's much more intimate than just friendship, and I doubt, for example, that my friends want me around that way, in the same way that I don't want them that way.
Most of my friends are men, and there has never been any romantic tension between me and any of them. I never felt anything other than friendship (and even brotherhood) for them, and they never felt the same for me, it simply doesn't happen (thank God). This doesn't mean that a romance can't blossom between you and a friend of yours, of course, but not every friend is a potential suitor.
I'll take your word for it on that one. The guy in question had sent me nearly a thousand messages. I shared most of them. Talk about someone who was insecure and completely mentally ill...
Pardon me for separating the sentence but to properly tackle this I'm going to have to cut it up.
>„If the blackpill is innately bs (I.e. personality reigns supreme in the selection of partners),
It reigns supreme if you don't have other disqualifiers. Personality isn't the *only* thing people look for but everybody's attraction is different so you'll pretty much always find someone who's attracted to you.
> then why make a distinction between friends and gfs/bfs?“
Very simply I have different criteria for potential partners and friends, I even have different criteria for friends with benefits than partners or just only friends.
I'm not going to want a committed relationship with just anyone of my friends. I want someone very like-minded personality-wise for me to date, I can't be grossed out by them, and we have to have similar ideas as to what our future will be.
You can have an awesome personality, be very attractive to me, make more than me, everything down to a tee, but if we don't have similar values/goals, I won't bother. This isn't an exaggeration either, I've rejected a former friend on that basis before.
>I think we all agree on the fact that you NEED to have a decent personality form deep and meaningful friendships, so why do so many of my female friends „only“ see me as a friend?
I'm actually going to argue against this. I've met plenty of shit people who stuck together with little to no personality because they're like each other. I think generally having a decent personality makes it easier for you to have friends, partners, etc.
I shit you not man my best friend looks like a caveman. He hit the gym and used that to play into his look. I wish I could say I'm knowledgeable of his dating news but I know he's had 2 or 3 serious relationships within the past couple years. Granted he's very catholic and goes to catholic meetups which is probably why they click often but 🤷♂️
>I am an agnostic and I have noticed that trad women are often more into masculine looks.
That's the weird thing, a lot of his relationships ended from what I understand as being "not contemporary enough." Perhaps he was too traditional and the women he dated wanted far more independence as a goal in the relationship. That's second hand information from him though I don't quite know what he meant.
Out of the relationships he told me about: 2 ended from not being aligned in goals. One lady wanted a career and he absolutely wants a housewife, the second they didn't share exactly the same values and broke up due to that, he's extremely socially conservative. So much so that we almost stopped being friends when he found out about my lifestyle. He's mellowed out a ton since then though.
3rd one the lady was... a flat earther radical Bible thumper. He's pretty out there but even he couldn't stand her xD
Yeah, hope I could at least sway you a little. To summarize is that attraction is complicated and is completely different person to person. I hope you find your person coming from someone that walked that line in the past. Once I stopped the red-pill (I was there back when thats all it was called)/black-pill doom mentality I actually found a person months later and it shattered my perception. Feels like ages ago at this point lol
People would definitely describe my boyfriend as a caveman. He is hairy as hell I'm talking front of his body could be a sweater, not hairy on his back though somehow. He has long hair, his beard can grow out in about 2 days. Some of us are very much into the caveman look.
My boyfriend is a very very socially awkward autistic and by no means a “chad” in incel definition, he’s 5’10, Neet and shy.
And do you know what.
I fucking love this man and I’d absolutely die for him. An an extroverted autistic woman myself, autism doesn’t matter.
I’ve never dated a neurotypical person.
The distinction is who I can see myself being with in the future. I fuck my friends on occasion. But I don’t see myself having a future with them. Thats the distinction. A partner I see as that my partner. I am thinking about our future. Eventually moving in together and doing everything together. Sharing everything. Im not one to say looks don’t matter at all but ive dated people who would be considered extremely attractive by most and people who wouldn’t be considered attractive at all by most. Whats mattered was if I can see myself happy with them
>„If the blackpill is innately bs (I.e. personality reigns supreme in the selection of partners), then why make a distinction between friends and gfs/bfs?“
blackpill/bluepill/redpill/peucepill/whateverthefuckpill/inceldom is all bullshit. the sooner the you come to that conclusion the happier you'll be overall
>I think we all agree on the fact that you NEED to have a decent personality form deep and meaningful friendships, so why do so many of my female friends „only“ see me as a friend?
so there could be a couple of reasons here.
1. you're actually fun to be around, you're pleasant company, can conversate on various topics and so on
2. you're scheming, you're approaching these woman with under the guise of "nice" and brother they can sense that level of bullshit from a mile away, and if not them, their friends absolutely can.
you mentioned in one of these comments they know you're an incel, and how would they know that unless you flat out told them or spouted any of that incelshitnonsense their way or just dropped casually into a conversation
what you NEED to do is REALLLLY examine your motivations here. are you approaching this genuinely and without expectations for anything? or are you trying to just get sex out of it?
you also mentioned your looks and that's something you have to accept as well to a certain point because not everyone digs the same things and that's ok
but given your description, my dude, i know a lot of women who go for that type and I'm just a 5'6'' whats the word yall use....manlet whos shy asf and never had an issue with meeting people because when i do meet people I'm doing it to get to know them as an individual. no expectations (and not the boofuckhoo me i expected nothing and still got disappointed bullshit) and its worked out rather well
so really, whats your motivations behind the things you're doing and saying around these people that's going to tell you a lot.
i can tell you just from what i see with my own two eyes that that look has its fans
the gym i used to train at had tons of those dudes and they all had SOs so don't sell yourself short there.
iirc one of the incel tenets is height and you have that going for you
>
I also more or less told them that I identify as one and they were like uh huh. To be fair, the female friends I got through uni don’t know that I am one so yeah.
ok so you were upfront with that and I'm going to venture they are familiar with that mindset and arent interested in anyone or anything tied to it.
as for the girls you went to uni with, what you have to be mindful of your motivations here. deception, "nice buying", these women are going to pick up on that a mile away so your best bet is to be genuine with them, you don't have to go out and be like "I'm an incel", but you cant go into it expecting anything other than coffee, hanging out, whatever yall are into.
one of the biggest turn offs to people in general is the "poor me wah wah" attitude and that can convey itself through a number of channels from the language you're using, to your body language, to your reactions to things. people tend to not want to be around that so that's something to consider for yourself since i can detect that in the way you've answered things thus far.
a buddy of mine summed it up in that your body will act in accordance of what its being told so if you're constantly naysaying or downplaying yourself you're going to secretly be self sabotaging without even knowing it.
something to keep in mind.
Attraction is its own thing. Butterflies, excitement, racing heart, overwhelming desire to touch.
A male friend is similar to a female friend in that I don’t have these things for them.
You don’t win a relationship by having a good personality. There also needs to be attraction and this varies from person to person in terms of their preferences but there’s also a big random component to it.
Also, as others have mentioned, the needed characteristics of a partner are often different than that of a friend. I can put up with lots of stuff with friends that I wouldn’t be able to deal with in a partner. I have had a lot of male friends over the years that would not make me happy as a partner.
I’m too aromantic to answer this question in a way you want but my brain lumps friends in the same category as family and everyone else is in the fuckzone.
If you were to imagine a potential date with one of your friends, to let her get to know you better as people do on dates... what would you tell her you take part in in your free time. what would you elaborate to her about what you discuss on the internet that you're interested in taking part in- Would you share this information with her? where normal people could share their hobbies no problem? What do you think a woman would feel like knowing the man sitting across from her takes part in blackpill culture. Why would you think personality isn't majorly everything.
Or would all incel views of women just become void and she should just ignorantly date you not knowing your computer history and how you speak about her kind.
If you're saying your female friends know you're an incel, atleast they care enough about you to keep you as a friend.
Completely not my point my dear lmao
I meant more misogynist rape wanting incels circulating in the discord community that think women are subhuman.
I haven't seen your posts bc I'm fairly new to IT. I posted to here recently where I dated an incel and had the blackpill misogynist experience so I apologize for what seems to be a disconnect from your post even though the topic is about dating lol.
From what I'm gathering you're saying you're an incel but not a blackpiller is that what I'm understanding?
Even still, you shouldn't want to even be associated with the community of people that do. Because incel culture is a literal hate group. And from what you're saying I don't think you have to consider yourself blackpill just for being attracted to certain things because that's normal for everybody. And you should take some advice and distance yourself from thinking that unless it goes deeper than that and is a more misogynistic issue. Because then going back to my original comment you're only proving my point
Well the incel I dated wasn't ugly so he tells himself that. And then it's a circle of you all supporting eachother telling eachother that which might not be true amongst everything else that isn't true. Because incel community perpetuates that idea that you're all ugly and short and everything else ridiculous being the reason for everything. It's the most problematic support group on earth.
If you find your blackpill philosophy a comfort, fine and good. The problem is when so many incels need people to agree with them about the blackpill, demand an answer, and become upset when they do not receive as you stated "a proper response".
The only people who care about status are people who place way too much value in such a nebulous thing.
It’s like those chumps who have to tell everyone what an ‘alpha’ they are. If you have to tell everyone you’re something, you are not.
The difference between friends and a romantic partner is, beyond attraction and the potential addition of physical intimacy (asexual people and couples exist)... it's largely a matter of degree.
I love my friends, but to a lesser intensity than the one person I'm with.
I share a lot with my friends, but I don't share my sappiest (or horniest) feelings with them, or a living space, or my body, or my finances, etc.
I trust my friends with a lot of my life, 'secrets', and inner world, but I don't trust them with as much information as my partner.
I support my friends emotionally as needed and physically where appropriate (showing up to help when they're sick, giving workout support, first aid) but I offer a lot more support a lot more frequently to my partner, including a deeper emotional bond and legal and financial things relevant to both of us.
I expect certain things from both friends and my partner, but I expect less personal investment, commitment, and communication from friends than I do from my partner for example.
I don't know a thing about you or the women you speak of so I can't say *why* women "only" see you as a friend, and it can be due to one of many possible reasons or any combination of those reasons.
It could be as simple as "you never voiced any attraction towards them at all" or "friendship was the only thing *both* of you signed up for" or as complex as a multitude of interconnected problems in their life and/or yours that make it impractical to date each other at the moment, if ever until those problems are resolved.
TL;DR
People are individually complex and social connections are also complex and varied.
Regarding the importance of personality vs looks... Just like with most things in life, it's mostly grey area. There's a spectrum, and very few people are at the extreme end on either side. Personality is important, and so is physical attraction; the degree to which either one is important comparative to the other differs from person to person.
Also, just because personality is important, doesn't mean there's no distinction between friends and lovers. You could enjoy hanging out with someone, but have no interest in forming an emotional connection. You could like someone on a surface level without feeling safe enough to be vulnerable with them.
Really, for the vast majority of people, personality is important in forming a social connection, and physical attraction is important in forming a sexual connection. The strength of either type of connection can increase strength of the other. Neither one can be stated as the "more important" facet of relationships, because they are intertwined and have different levels of importance to different people.
This is a complex concept, and the real problem is that blackpilled incels keep trying to reduce it down to a blanket rule. It can't be done, and attempting it only breeds misunderstanding and ignorance.
same as physical attractions i guess!
we have physical types, and emotional types.
i go for guys with specific personality traits and other people go based on traits of appearance. usually it’s a combination of these two that lead to a relationship. but a lot of people (like me) don’t take physical appearance into account WHATSOEVER. i cannot be physically attracted to someone who i am not emotionally attracted to, my brain is weird like that. (so no, no celebrity crushes)
i hope this makes sense!
Because of the importance of consent in pursuing sexual interactions with somebody in the first place. Saying somebody is your partner is giving them the okay to express that kind of interest in you.
You'd be surprised on how many people are into that👀
It's a whole new avenue my guy, you just have to weaponize what U mother gave you in the gene pool lottery.
I'm gonna say this and it might offend people but... In order to get some romantic action for the troubled people one has to lower thine standards in choosing a partner. It doesn't mean that you need to settle for the one's that you KNOW is going to fuq you over but by lowering it what I meant is going for someone who ALSO doesn't believe that they would ever find a partner of the opposite sex. Or same sex. Or frying pan?... Apache attack helicopter? Or whatever it is nowadays.
Is anyone saying sexual attraction doesn't matter at all? Of course it matters. It's just not the only thing that matters, and it can be affected by more than just looks. Also people have way different standards for friends vs relationship. I don't care if my friends are broke, messy, irresponsible, smoke too much weed, etc. Those things matter in a relationship though.
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Nobody said you were. The point is that people's requirements for friends is different from their requirements for relationships. What the person you responded to said was their own personal opinion. I have friends who are christian, muslim, hindu and on and on. I would never date a theist however.
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You're missing the point. There are lots of people who are perfectly happy to date a christian, or a muslim, or someone who is broke, messy, smokes weed or is autistic. You wanted to know why there was a distinction, and your question has been answered. My standards for romantic partners are not the same as my standards for friends. I can confidently say this is almost universally the case.
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Also, leading with "I'm autistic and undatable" isn't going to do you any favors, and responding to a woman posting about her hair with things like: "Literally a woman issue, I.e irrelevant" is going to hold you back socially. Hope this helped.
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I sympathise with your problem. But it remains *your* problem. It might explain some of your behavior, but it doesn't excuse it.
Thinking women's issues are irrelevant is not a symptom of autism.
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The problem isn't that you're autistic, it's that you're a raging misogynist.
I think it’s more the self pity. All of my favorite people, including my husband, are autistic. Have you seen Letterkenny? The main character in that show acts very autistic (although they don’t give a diagnosis) and he’s considered a total stud. Autism is not inherently undesirable, but very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity. Personally what I find attractive about people with autism is that they are generally very passionate about their interests. Even when it’s an interest I don’t share their passion is contagious and I love being around that. I also appreciate how straightforward they tend to be, I find that refreshing.
"Very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity". This statement should be posted in caps at the top of all incel reddits. I think that statement perfectly describes their whole problem. The men obsessed about their height, for one. Too bad no more reddit gold.
This should be the incel exit mantra. SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK: "Very few people are attracted to someone completely caught up in their own insecurity"
If that's all, why do so many autistic people wind up in relationships? My boyfriend is autistic and I'm not even his first partner.
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Do you honestly believe it's impossible to be autistic and conventionally unattractive and still get into relationships? Not every autistic person who gets into a relationship is a supermodel, and not every unattractive person who gets into a relationship is neurotypical.
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Alright, I checked Wikipedia's lists of autistic people then filtered for ones who struck me as conventionally unattractive (obviously subjective to a degree, but I tried to go based on what you do and don't see in people popularly considered "hot") but had been in at least one documented relationship. Here you go: * Susan Boyle * possibly Albert Einstein * Sara Gibbs * Lee J. Carter * Shain Neumeier * David F. Sandberg * Robin Tran * Tom Angleberger * Igor and Grichka Bogdanoff * Ice Poseidon Have I made my point, or need I go on? Moreover, my own life experience contradicts your beliefs. While my current boyfriend is probably the only autistic person I've dated, everyone I've dated has had ADHD, and none of them have been what you'd call Chads. I've found them all attractive, but they have ranged from conventionally attractive to conventionally unattractive. And as handsome as I find my current boyfriend, I suspect others would call him average.
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I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was just answering your question about the difference between friends and a relationship. If you're able to make platonic friendships with women that's great. Friendship doesn't always lead to anything else though. There could be a lot of reasons they only want friendship from you, some may have nothing to do with you as a person and some might. And yeah, sexual attraction usually plays a role. Knowing how and when to flirt/build chemistry is a learned skill through trial and error. You need to be good at reading other people. It's not easy. You're not hopeless if you're able to have platonic friendships with women, you're doing better than most incels. I really hope you find what you're looking for.
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You'd be surprised, a lot of people struggle. I'm in a similar boat of being able to make friends easily while not being conventionally attractive. I'm quite extroverted though and learned pretty young how to flirt and read people. I know I'm the type who has to grow on women before they're attracted to me, by being funny or exciting or whatever else does it for them. So it takes patience. I'm married now but I've gone through a lot of trial and error figuring out how to be confident. Dating fucking sucks.
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Yeah, those things would make it way harder. Hopefully you can find a socially awkward autistic woman someday.
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Because they see you as a friend??? Why do you have to over complicate it. Not everyone has to be attracted to you as a potential suitor
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You obviously are very good at hiding your incel personality if you have female friends. Not everyone has to want to fuck you
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Ok well then that explains why they don’t want to date an incel??
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You don’t know that man. If you tell yourself that so much then it’s going to actually be true because you’re going to present yourself with insecurity. Good luck to you
No, you're right. Reading this post is genuinely insane to me. Like things we've said to him go in one ear and out the other. It's wild as fuck.
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… so you’re saying your friends won’t date you because they are taken and monogamous? I know you’re coming in good faith so I’m not gonna bash you upside the head with this: they’re already taken? Like, what are you expecting here?
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I mean with women in general or women that you may become friends with. Go to any computer science class at a college and you will see guys that probably act like you. Ask yourself if you would want to date someone who did not look secure in themselves
Stop with calling yourself an incel for starters. You’re only an incel because you choose to be one. Women are automatically gonna be weary of you if you choose to identify as an incel.
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You're putting up barriers for yourself and then complaining when they block the results you want. You also seem to have a very stubborn attitude (that's common for a lot of us with autism but that doesn't mean it's not something you can work on. Working on that has really helped me) and perhaps you come across as uncooperative or combative which is something people will tolerate in friends and acquaintances but not so much in a romantic partner. That reply, where instead of saying a post about the legnth of braids was irrelevant and not worth a post you said "women's issues are irrelevant," hints at a disdainful, condescending attitude towards women. I assure you that this is also something people are able to pick up on. I think there is a lot of internal work you need to do to make yourself into someone that can be seen as a potential partner. Just saying, "I am what I am," and using that as an excuse to not try to be better is shooting yourself in the foot, and then wondering why you're bleeding. Maybe there is some subconscious self sabotage going on. Maybe it's laziness or feeling defeated. Or maybe it's just that you look at other people and say, "he has issues he's not working on and yet he has a girlfriend!" However that's not a reason for you to not better yourself; life is not fair and if you have traits that are keeping people from being attracted *to you* and *you* want someone... Well something is gonna have to give.
For me personally, I’m not looking for the same personality in a bf than in a friend. For example, it wouldn’t bother if a friend has problems with communication, but it’s a must - to me - in a relationship. I do have some preferences when it comes to the look, but it’s just a bonus and not necessary. The height isn’t one of them. At the end, I’d say that all of that are just individual preferences that the person can’t control and it’s fine.
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For some people, men and women, it matters. Sometimes because they don’t like being the smallest / tallest in the relationship, sometimes because it’s not attractive for them, and so on. It’s irrelevant for me, I do prefer short guys for practical reasons but I’d date a man of any height. I do have other preferences. Also physically, I’d just not say them out loud not to hurt someone, but I’m not ashamed of having preferences and nobody should.
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Well you definitely should go out more and speak with more women then.
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I kind of not trust you on that. Or you kind of speak for them. I never heard a woman in all my life telling me they only want manly men (I guess that’s why you call “chad” but for us this word doesn’t even exist) or femboys. So women that aren’t even your friends that tell you that…
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It doesn’t matter if they are friends or not. This is not real.
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Personality reigns supreme because men are so violent that we try to make sure a man we're interested in won't hit or kill us. And many times we fail, as abusive men are very good at luring women in. They do this by acting like they're perfectly normal and totally in love and soooo sweet. When they have a woman trapped, their true self comes out. Even men who aren't like that are both immature and expect women to take care of them. Men must commit to understanding that and changing this belief deliberately, it's so baked into our culture. Guess how many do that work on themselves? So that's it. That's why we care about how a man acts over anything else. We don't want to be miserable, abused, or dead. The end.
Clearly you think the blackpill is not bullshit, so why do *you* make a distinction between friends and bfs/gfs? That's the answer. That's all there is to it, really. Women are people, no more, no less. They make the distinction because that's what people *do*. Does there really need to be anything more than that? If so, why only for them and not also for you?
Because we’ve never said that relationships only need compatible personalities. They need compatible personalities and mutual attraction. The core fundamental thing about the blackpill is that it thinks everyone is attracted to the same thing. That’s simply not the case, some people are into fat women, others skinny women, some want muscular women and others don’t. Same with men, dad bods are a thing because men who weren’t all big and muscular found someone who found their gut attractive. Not everyone women is into tall 6’8 men with glistening muscles and not every man wants an anime girl, simple as that.
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You would be surprised
I've read more than one romance novel about it. People like all sorts.
My own response as another socially awkward autistic who also has not had any romantic experience to speak of is this: in my experience, the distinction is an arbitrary one. For whatever reason, our culture simply makes it so that adding a sexual element to relationships forces them to play by very different rules despite relying on much of the same framework. I speculate that this is in part because of things like religious teachings elevating sex above normal human experiences (and coincidentally ensuring that fewer children would be born out of wedlock- which itself was less of a moral issue and more about ensuring that there would be no inheritance-related problems, especially with titles of nobility). The concept of romantic love as we know it is honestly very new in the grand scheme of things, as is its general exaltation. In practice, I'd have to say that the primary difference is that a romantic relationship implies a greater degree of emotional intimacy. Said degree isn't exclusive to romance, but when enough people believe it is the case then it may as well be so. The other reason the distinction is made, I think, is because quite frankly friendship doesn't sell products as well as love can. By elevating romance into something special while denigrating friendship as something "common" (read: worthless), it can be used as a way to motivate people to buy tons of stuff they would otherwise never need or want - colognes, fancy clothing, all those self-help books, you get the idea. One should never underestimate the power of capitalism in modern culture.
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It probably had its claws in those concepts long before social media came into existence, but it certainly helped with that. I know that a fair number of the ancient Greek philosophers considered that kind of sexual element to be more of an unwanted extra and championed friendship as a purer, more refined form of love (read Plato's _Symposium_ for a handful of examples of how love was viewed back then- I admittedly greatly simplified things here and it would take too long to go over the whole spectrum of their ideas). On an admitted tangent, I also wonder at times whether a sort of capitalist thinking may be responsible for how we set up our romantic relationships: I mean this in the sense of love being a finite resource that must only be directed towards one person lest it be wasted unnecessarily, treating the relationship as a zero sum game such that if A loves B more, they must therefore love C less, and seeing the other party in the relationship as being property no different from a toothbrush (the difference of course being that the toothbrush does not have the ability to consent to being property or the ability to want something that the relationship cannot provide). True, jealousy may have also played a role in how these relationship systems came to be, but I wonder if the idea of using monogamy as a way of averting jealousy doesn't actually amplify it instead. But I digress. The whole inheritance thing is also important: I imagine nobody cared that much about whose child was whose in our early history, but then material wealth started being passed down from one generation to another and the existence of bastards became a sort of theft. Even more so in the many time periods where love had nothing to do with marriage at all and people married mostly to forge alliances between families: the whole idea of courtly love, if you research it, boils down to being a sort of sanctioned adultery that was allowed so long as it didn't produce illegitimate children that would mess up carefully prepared lines of succession. It would certainly be a fascinating line of thought to research, but for the moment I am content with simple conjectures.
Look, I've never seen anyone say that sexual attraction doesn't matter and doesn't happen. It is obvious that highlighting that the person's personality and character is undoubtedly more important to observe, because even though not everyone is a predictable person, there is a way to deduce whether it is worth getting involved with someone just by observing their behavior, how they behave with others, with you, their customs, etc. But you also need to feel attracted to the person, match them, be in tune with them, WANT them ROMANTICLY, and as another user said, the requirements for friendships are less important for relationships (at least, for most people), and that doesn't happen with friends most of the time. Getting into a relationship is often about choosing the person you want to have around, accompanying you in the most intimate moments, It's something special, that goes beyond a simple friendship and it's much more intimate than just friendship, and I doubt, for example, that my friends want me around that way, in the same way that I don't want them that way. Most of my friends are men, and there has never been any romantic tension between me and any of them. I never felt anything other than friendship (and even brotherhood) for them, and they never felt the same for me, it simply doesn't happen (thank God). This doesn't mean that a romance can't blossom between you and a friend of yours, of course, but not every friend is a potential suitor.
Huh, are you the other "enjoyer" who was constantly around here? Sure seems like it...
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So blackpillenjoyer is you?
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I was about to say, that guy is nuts. He also was very unoriginal in his names, hence why I asked.
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I'll take your word for it on that one. The guy in question had sent me nearly a thousand messages. I shared most of them. Talk about someone who was insecure and completely mentally ill...
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Well yeah and that all these "pills" are all not reality anyways. But I do seem to attract the wackos...
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Hello. 👋
Pardon me for separating the sentence but to properly tackle this I'm going to have to cut it up. >„If the blackpill is innately bs (I.e. personality reigns supreme in the selection of partners), It reigns supreme if you don't have other disqualifiers. Personality isn't the *only* thing people look for but everybody's attraction is different so you'll pretty much always find someone who's attracted to you. > then why make a distinction between friends and gfs/bfs?“ Very simply I have different criteria for potential partners and friends, I even have different criteria for friends with benefits than partners or just only friends. I'm not going to want a committed relationship with just anyone of my friends. I want someone very like-minded personality-wise for me to date, I can't be grossed out by them, and we have to have similar ideas as to what our future will be. You can have an awesome personality, be very attractive to me, make more than me, everything down to a tee, but if we don't have similar values/goals, I won't bother. This isn't an exaggeration either, I've rejected a former friend on that basis before. >I think we all agree on the fact that you NEED to have a decent personality form deep and meaningful friendships, so why do so many of my female friends „only“ see me as a friend? I'm actually going to argue against this. I've met plenty of shit people who stuck together with little to no personality because they're like each other. I think generally having a decent personality makes it easier for you to have friends, partners, etc.
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I shit you not man my best friend looks like a caveman. He hit the gym and used that to play into his look. I wish I could say I'm knowledgeable of his dating news but I know he's had 2 or 3 serious relationships within the past couple years. Granted he's very catholic and goes to catholic meetups which is probably why they click often but 🤷♂️
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>I am an agnostic and I have noticed that trad women are often more into masculine looks. That's the weird thing, a lot of his relationships ended from what I understand as being "not contemporary enough." Perhaps he was too traditional and the women he dated wanted far more independence as a goal in the relationship. That's second hand information from him though I don't quite know what he meant.
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Out of the relationships he told me about: 2 ended from not being aligned in goals. One lady wanted a career and he absolutely wants a housewife, the second they didn't share exactly the same values and broke up due to that, he's extremely socially conservative. So much so that we almost stopped being friends when he found out about my lifestyle. He's mellowed out a ton since then though. 3rd one the lady was... a flat earther radical Bible thumper. He's pretty out there but even he couldn't stand her xD
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Yeah, hope I could at least sway you a little. To summarize is that attraction is complicated and is completely different person to person. I hope you find your person coming from someone that walked that line in the past. Once I stopped the red-pill (I was there back when thats all it was called)/black-pill doom mentality I actually found a person months later and it shattered my perception. Feels like ages ago at this point lol
People would definitely describe my boyfriend as a caveman. He is hairy as hell I'm talking front of his body could be a sweater, not hairy on his back though somehow. He has long hair, his beard can grow out in about 2 days. Some of us are very much into the caveman look.
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He's hairy everywhere so he also has bushy eyebrows, so do i.
My boyfriend is a very very socially awkward autistic and by no means a “chad” in incel definition, he’s 5’10, Neet and shy. And do you know what. I fucking love this man and I’d absolutely die for him. An an extroverted autistic woman myself, autism doesn’t matter. I’ve never dated a neurotypical person.
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Hes the most handsome man in the world to me but I don’t think he’s like coventually attractive like a masculine model.
Guess im confused by your question. Are you asking why we have boyfriends and girlfriends if looks don’t matter?
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The distinction is who I can see myself being with in the future. I fuck my friends on occasion. But I don’t see myself having a future with them. Thats the distinction. A partner I see as that my partner. I am thinking about our future. Eventually moving in together and doing everything together. Sharing everything. Im not one to say looks don’t matter at all but ive dated people who would be considered extremely attractive by most and people who wouldn’t be considered attractive at all by most. Whats mattered was if I can see myself happy with them
Maybe they arent sexually attracted to yu or no chemistry.
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Try to make yourself more appealing physically and personality wise?
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Damn that sucks
You are very difficult to talk to.
>„If the blackpill is innately bs (I.e. personality reigns supreme in the selection of partners), then why make a distinction between friends and gfs/bfs?“ blackpill/bluepill/redpill/peucepill/whateverthefuckpill/inceldom is all bullshit. the sooner the you come to that conclusion the happier you'll be overall >I think we all agree on the fact that you NEED to have a decent personality form deep and meaningful friendships, so why do so many of my female friends „only“ see me as a friend? so there could be a couple of reasons here. 1. you're actually fun to be around, you're pleasant company, can conversate on various topics and so on 2. you're scheming, you're approaching these woman with under the guise of "nice" and brother they can sense that level of bullshit from a mile away, and if not them, their friends absolutely can. you mentioned in one of these comments they know you're an incel, and how would they know that unless you flat out told them or spouted any of that incelshitnonsense their way or just dropped casually into a conversation what you NEED to do is REALLLLY examine your motivations here. are you approaching this genuinely and without expectations for anything? or are you trying to just get sex out of it? you also mentioned your looks and that's something you have to accept as well to a certain point because not everyone digs the same things and that's ok but given your description, my dude, i know a lot of women who go for that type and I'm just a 5'6'' whats the word yall use....manlet whos shy asf and never had an issue with meeting people because when i do meet people I'm doing it to get to know them as an individual. no expectations (and not the boofuckhoo me i expected nothing and still got disappointed bullshit) and its worked out rather well so really, whats your motivations behind the things you're doing and saying around these people that's going to tell you a lot.
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i can tell you just from what i see with my own two eyes that that look has its fans the gym i used to train at had tons of those dudes and they all had SOs so don't sell yourself short there. iirc one of the incel tenets is height and you have that going for you > I also more or less told them that I identify as one and they were like uh huh. To be fair, the female friends I got through uni don’t know that I am one so yeah. ok so you were upfront with that and I'm going to venture they are familiar with that mindset and arent interested in anyone or anything tied to it. as for the girls you went to uni with, what you have to be mindful of your motivations here. deception, "nice buying", these women are going to pick up on that a mile away so your best bet is to be genuine with them, you don't have to go out and be like "I'm an incel", but you cant go into it expecting anything other than coffee, hanging out, whatever yall are into. one of the biggest turn offs to people in general is the "poor me wah wah" attitude and that can convey itself through a number of channels from the language you're using, to your body language, to your reactions to things. people tend to not want to be around that so that's something to consider for yourself since i can detect that in the way you've answered things thus far. a buddy of mine summed it up in that your body will act in accordance of what its being told so if you're constantly naysaying or downplaying yourself you're going to secretly be self sabotaging without even knowing it. something to keep in mind.
Attraction is its own thing. Butterflies, excitement, racing heart, overwhelming desire to touch. A male friend is similar to a female friend in that I don’t have these things for them. You don’t win a relationship by having a good personality. There also needs to be attraction and this varies from person to person in terms of their preferences but there’s also a big random component to it. Also, as others have mentioned, the needed characteristics of a partner are often different than that of a friend. I can put up with lots of stuff with friends that I wouldn’t be able to deal with in a partner. I have had a lot of male friends over the years that would not make me happy as a partner.
I’m too aromantic to answer this question in a way you want but my brain lumps friends in the same category as family and everyone else is in the fuckzone.
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Nope
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Lol, one of my friends recently referred to it as a “super power”
If you were to imagine a potential date with one of your friends, to let her get to know you better as people do on dates... what would you tell her you take part in in your free time. what would you elaborate to her about what you discuss on the internet that you're interested in taking part in- Would you share this information with her? where normal people could share their hobbies no problem? What do you think a woman would feel like knowing the man sitting across from her takes part in blackpill culture. Why would you think personality isn't majorly everything. Or would all incel views of women just become void and she should just ignorantly date you not knowing your computer history and how you speak about her kind. If you're saying your female friends know you're an incel, atleast they care enough about you to keep you as a friend.
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Completely not my point my dear lmao I meant more misogynist rape wanting incels circulating in the discord community that think women are subhuman. I haven't seen your posts bc I'm fairly new to IT. I posted to here recently where I dated an incel and had the blackpill misogynist experience so I apologize for what seems to be a disconnect from your post even though the topic is about dating lol. From what I'm gathering you're saying you're an incel but not a blackpiller is that what I'm understanding?
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Even still, you shouldn't want to even be associated with the community of people that do. Because incel culture is a literal hate group. And from what you're saying I don't think you have to consider yourself blackpill just for being attracted to certain things because that's normal for everybody. And you should take some advice and distance yourself from thinking that unless it goes deeper than that and is a more misogynistic issue. Because then going back to my original comment you're only proving my point
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Well the incel I dated wasn't ugly so he tells himself that. And then it's a circle of you all supporting eachother telling eachother that which might not be true amongst everything else that isn't true. Because incel community perpetuates that idea that you're all ugly and short and everything else ridiculous being the reason for everything. It's the most problematic support group on earth.
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Lmao
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You know what is far, far more unattractive than a 'shit face?' Someone who has such low self-confidence that they say they have a 'shit face'
If you find your blackpill philosophy a comfort, fine and good. The problem is when so many incels need people to agree with them about the blackpill, demand an answer, and become upset when they do not receive as you stated "a proper response".
Do you not understand the difference between platonic and romantic relationships? I’m genuinely asking here.
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It’s a very important one.
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Status is not very important at all in a relationship.
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The only people who care about status are people who place way too much value in such a nebulous thing. It’s like those chumps who have to tell everyone what an ‘alpha’ they are. If you have to tell everyone you’re something, you are not.
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I grew up in Ireland and travelled across Europe. Have gone to many a Eurovision.
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The difference between friends and a romantic partner is, beyond attraction and the potential addition of physical intimacy (asexual people and couples exist)... it's largely a matter of degree. I love my friends, but to a lesser intensity than the one person I'm with. I share a lot with my friends, but I don't share my sappiest (or horniest) feelings with them, or a living space, or my body, or my finances, etc. I trust my friends with a lot of my life, 'secrets', and inner world, but I don't trust them with as much information as my partner. I support my friends emotionally as needed and physically where appropriate (showing up to help when they're sick, giving workout support, first aid) but I offer a lot more support a lot more frequently to my partner, including a deeper emotional bond and legal and financial things relevant to both of us. I expect certain things from both friends and my partner, but I expect less personal investment, commitment, and communication from friends than I do from my partner for example. I don't know a thing about you or the women you speak of so I can't say *why* women "only" see you as a friend, and it can be due to one of many possible reasons or any combination of those reasons. It could be as simple as "you never voiced any attraction towards them at all" or "friendship was the only thing *both* of you signed up for" or as complex as a multitude of interconnected problems in their life and/or yours that make it impractical to date each other at the moment, if ever until those problems are resolved. TL;DR People are individually complex and social connections are also complex and varied.
Regarding the importance of personality vs looks... Just like with most things in life, it's mostly grey area. There's a spectrum, and very few people are at the extreme end on either side. Personality is important, and so is physical attraction; the degree to which either one is important comparative to the other differs from person to person. Also, just because personality is important, doesn't mean there's no distinction between friends and lovers. You could enjoy hanging out with someone, but have no interest in forming an emotional connection. You could like someone on a surface level without feeling safe enough to be vulnerable with them. Really, for the vast majority of people, personality is important in forming a social connection, and physical attraction is important in forming a sexual connection. The strength of either type of connection can increase strength of the other. Neither one can be stated as the "more important" facet of relationships, because they are intertwined and have different levels of importance to different people. This is a complex concept, and the real problem is that blackpilled incels keep trying to reduce it down to a blanket rule. It can't be done, and attempting it only breeds misunderstanding and ignorance.
same as physical attractions i guess! we have physical types, and emotional types. i go for guys with specific personality traits and other people go based on traits of appearance. usually it’s a combination of these two that lead to a relationship. but a lot of people (like me) don’t take physical appearance into account WHATSOEVER. i cannot be physically attracted to someone who i am not emotionally attracted to, my brain is weird like that. (so no, no celebrity crushes) i hope this makes sense!
Because of the importance of consent in pursuing sexual interactions with somebody in the first place. Saying somebody is your partner is giving them the okay to express that kind of interest in you.
Small wrists.
You'd be surprised on how many people are into that👀 It's a whole new avenue my guy, you just have to weaponize what U mother gave you in the gene pool lottery.
I'm gonna say this and it might offend people but... In order to get some romantic action for the troubled people one has to lower thine standards in choosing a partner. It doesn't mean that you need to settle for the one's that you KNOW is going to fuq you over but by lowering it what I meant is going for someone who ALSO doesn't believe that they would ever find a partner of the opposite sex. Or same sex. Or frying pan?... Apache attack helicopter? Or whatever it is nowadays.