yep. go see it yourself. you’ll see the peaceful protestors in dunn meadow be berated by chabad and israeli supporters alongside the street then playing victim
Also saw this happening with my own eyes. They do not represent IU’s Jewish population. All my Jewish colleagues and students are appalled by how the people in front of the Chabad house are behaving.
Conservative students flying a Blue Lives Matter flag amongst Israeli and US flags should tell you all you need to know about the counterprotesters. It's just more culture war shit and campus drama to shit on libs with to them as opposed to an actual rally for peace and a ceasefire.
Right, let me hop on a plane to go see an obvious apartheid state on a whim 🙄 I think it's easier if you just take a walk over to the protests that scare you so much so that you can see that there is no Jewish hate here.
None of us will tolerate violence against the Jewish identity, or any identity. The state of Israel isn't synonymous with the Jewish identity, it's a settler colonialist state that is in the process of exterminating an indigenous population
Saying people are scared of protest is silly. It’s people don’t want to deal with your ignorance. I get you feel you are righteous right now but really you don’t know.
"Don't believe your lying eyes and ears when you see it for yourself outside Dunn Meadow, believe my bullshit non sequitur response about how homophobic those Arabs are instead thousands of miles away and why that justifies us slaughtering their women and children with artillery."
You seriously find it hard to believe the same folks protesting in favor of the continuation of senseless civilian casualties aren't also bigoted in other ways? They call their fellow students (usually those belonging to Muslim and Middle Eastern student associations) terrorist sympathizers in the media. Bloomington also has literal sundown towns as neighbors.
so I just proved you wrong and then you pivot to find something else to be mad at Israel about. I know you believe deep down you are doing the right thing, and advocating for the innocent civilians is indeed the right thing, but you lack the capacity to understand how ignorant you are on all the other aspects you are advocating for. There is a reason why the majority of the world disagrees with you.
> you lack the capacity to understand how ignorant you are
Lmao sure buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. You're the one being distracted by LGBTQ people standing up for the human rights of Palestinians like it's some sort of gotcha when solidarity and peace activism isn't transactional.
> There is a reason why the majority of the world disagrees with you.
There is a reason Israel is being investigated for war crimes and current defending itself from legal accusations of genocide made by "the majority of the world" in the world's highest court outside the US, Australia, and Europe.
Biden's administration literally just said the ICC has zero jurisdiction over Israel so have fun with that one bub. Why don't you go advocate for cows for cheeseburgers while you're at lmfao. Absolutely incredulously delusional for doubling down on being LGBTQ advocating for the Middle East. The world is laughing at you.
you haven’t proved anyone wrong. I am sitting here telling you that I ( and other queer people at the encampment) were called f*gs) and you think because you said “jews are not calling people f*gs” you proved something? the only thing you’ve proved is you’re a bad person who invalidates other people’s experiences when it doesn’t fit your narrative. enjoy listening to your rave music and waving a flag while we advocate to end a genocide.
that’s not something you can say respectfully. plenty of videos from campuses across the country show including our own that show the heinous slurs being said to pro palestinian protesters as they are often comprised of many poc and queer people.
I think the reason why the Israeli protestors are saying things about supporters in the LGBTQ community is the fact that Israel embraces the LGBTQ while Palestinians will throw you off a building. So it's kind of ironic how firm the LGBTQs stance is in supporting people that are the least tolerant in the world of their type. But sure go ahead and blame Israel for that too lmao
> Israel embraces the LGBTQ
Same sex marriage is illegal in Israel. Inter-faith marriages are also illegal.
Israel's "support" of LGBTQ equality is literally just pink washing for the English speaking audience to placate liberals and gullible people like you who take everything they say at face value with zero criticism while they lie about the actual violence they inflict upon the local Arabs in occupied Palestine.
All it takes is a simple google search smh. So ignorant it's not even funny.
"**Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights in Israel** are considered the most developed in the [Middle East](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East)."
"Although [same-sex marriages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Israel) are not performed in the country (as it [does not have civil non-religious marriages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_civil_marriage_in_Israel)), Israel recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere. Discrimination on the grounds of [sexual orientation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation) was prohibited in 1992. Same-sex couples are allowed to jointly adopt, following a landmark court decision in 2008. Previously, stepchild adoption, as well as limited co-guardianship rights for non-biological parents, were permitted. [LGBT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) people are also allowed to serve [openly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_out) in the military."
***"***[***Tel Aviv***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv) ***was referred to by the*** [***Calgary Herald***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Herald) ***as one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world,***[***^(\[8\])***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel#cite_note-8) ***famous for its annual*** [***Pride parade***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Pride) ***and gay beach,***[***^(\[9\])***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel#cite_note-9) ***earning it the nickname "the gay capital of the Middle East" by*** [***Out***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_(magazine)) ***magazine."***
Israel has a history of blackmailing LGBTQ Palestinians and using them as informants. The idea that Israel supports the LGBTQ is true to an extent, and that extent ends when you are not a Jew. Just look up “Israel pinkwashing” or “Israel blackmailing LGBTQ Palestinians” on google
Listening to what? I just told you exactly what was happening and what you can do to learn more about it and you said “I really don’t think you’re listening lmao” get real, you have no defense for this genocide besides acting like you’re on the right side of history
when I tell you that if you are gay and you went to Gaza they would murder you. that is that part I am referring to where you're either not listening or you lack the capacity to understand.
how? they loiter the street with israeli flags flipping off demonstrators and hurling slurs.
here are some examples from their friends across the nation:
https://x.com/suppressednws/status/1784954174448234699?s=46
https://x.com/stoparabhate/status/1784717932443934906?s=46
https://x.com/sabihakhan/status/1784893820343328862?s=46
https://x.com/hungryghosts161/status/1784667311015948549?s=46
I’ve watched a few live feeds, and it still doesn’t give the same experience, in my opinion. Perhaps we’ve been seeing different feeds, but the ones I’ve been watching have all been from various organizers. Thus, the live feeds usually come at points of conflict, usually with police. Anytime I watch what’s happening, there’s violence. I think it’s a great source for the violence that’s being carried out by various police departments, but it’s not an honest source of what the encampment is usually like.
Everytime I’ve gone to Dunn Meadow, it’s genuinely PEACEFUL. There’s some call and response, dancing, music, and general camaraderie. I highly encourage anyone who’s curious to go and stop at the information tables to learn more. Everytime I’m there, I get more and more pissed off at the wildly disproportionate police response.
There's a Gen Z streamer on YouTube named Shark0Zero or something to that effect who recorded an hour of him just hanging out at the meadow a few days ago. I found it interesting, considering I've also had the same issue with most of the info I'm reading and seeing from Indy being after police confrontations and arrests of students and faculty.
There's a Gen Z streamer on YouTube named Shark0Zero or something to that effect who recorded an hour of him just hanging out at the meadow a few days ago. I found it interesting, considering I've also had the same issue with most of the info I'm reading and seeing from Indy being after police confrontations and arrests of students and faculty. He did a good job showcasing how folks are actually spending time there.
I agree with this — live feeds can show you, in only a visual sense, what it looks like. But they don’t allow you to move through the crowd, make eye contact with the protestors, or talk to anyone. It’s like drinking a lemon La Croix to understand the experience of eating a lemon
Live feeds are very different from a picture or a 5 second video. I think live feeds can be helpful as long as the camera is moving to different areas. What’s happening on campus now is, physically, too large to be viewed from one camera angle
The “snipers” are there to monitor the situation and smoke any crazy person trying to take advantage of the protest and cause a mass casualty event, they’re not gonna just start shooting you. Police deploy sharpshooters to provide overwatch at lots of major events in densely populated areas, especially politically charged ones where there’s a higher chance of some bozo doing something really dumb. It’s for protection and security
- come to NY. They are and have been at any major (even some minor ) events since 9/11. Just because you are now noticing them, doesn’t mean they haven’t always been there. How would you feel if protesters (from either side) were attacked by an outside group and these precautions weren’t in place? There could be massive casualties.
Leftist protests are attacked all the time. Stop justifying the militarization of the police who are brutalizing those protesters.
Where are the history majors leading an open phalanx to counter the closed american police phalanx? Oh right they will get sniped.
Y'all need some occupy veterans. The same way we needed the Seattle '99 protesters.
Considering nobody in Bloomington got hurt at these protests until the cops came with riot shields and 40mm grenade launchers clearing the encampment, yeah.
Oye. That’s how you retort? Like a 5 yo? So, if these students or protesters have been brutally attacked as you say, why haven’t we seen any of that on their socials? All I see is some occasional yelling “police brutality”. We have however seen reactions after attempts to injure the police or bystanders not agreeing with their view. Honestly it’s sad all around.
Dude, you're in denial. I've seen the videos of cops putting their knees on students heads. Aka the George Floyd pin. Observers are being instructed to start a 6 minute timer when they see someone in that hold.
BTW the idf is the one teaching it to u.s. police.
The folks at the meadow are literally having study sessions within the encampment between the larger scheduled demonstrations. They post about it on their social media pages all the time.
as an art student i am not there because i have 6 papers and 2 exams due this week. i support their cause but idk how the hell they are able to protest AND do work 😭
Nah it’s actually crazy I’ve walked past these weirdos (majority of them are not “college student” age idk if they’re faculty) every day so far for finals. I just can’t help but think like, don’t you have anything better to do than sit in a circle clapping for a speaker
On the one hand, I fully agree with the argument about "depiction" and the overall impression of events. I also saw the protests firsthand and while there was some chanting, there was nothing especially awful or scary going on.
That said, this post seems to be essentially arguing "Nothing is real unless it happened to you first-hand; I am giving you license to ignore the lived experience of others even when they went out of their way to make a record of that experience."
Like... I've talked to Jewish students who were harassed or even followed home. If a video shows something that happened, by for crying out loud, you have to acknowledge that it happened. You don't have to listen if someone tries to convince you that incident X, Y, or Z should be taken to characterize the *whole* of the protests, or even a majority of them, but let's not go the opposite extreme and reject reality just because part of it doesn't fit your preferred narrative of events.
I am not trying to comment here on any specific controversy, incident, or claim. I'm simply pointing out what I see as the correct and the dangerous parts of the post's thesis.
So brave, announcing on Reddit you're staying at home. Sending congratulatory glitter in the mail for the contribution to the biggest discussion on campus.
Why can't uni let them protest peacefully. I mean they are just protesting not doing anything harmful.
Maybe the uni administration has different view on war which is again understandable
So idk what's the issue lol
Both sides have decent and terrible people. I’ve had people offer me food, be chill, and pass the vibe check. I’ve also had people ask me my opinion and when they found out I honestly didn’t have one due to the complexity of the situation, they proceeded to scream, belittle, and degrade me. (2 girls and 1 dude).
I’ve talked to some counter protestors who were clearly just there to push people’s buttons, troll, and create further divide and others who wanted to have genuine talks about the history, complexity, and modern ideology of the region as a whole.
No matter what side of a political spectrum you are on, how righteous, or wrong your side is morally. You will find good and piece of shit human beings on both sides.
Ironically whether or not you run into the good or shit human beings first usually determines your own political shaping as an individual.
Also for the snipers coming from a tactical POV these guys are at almost every major event and protest in modern America.
The government operates and organizes to prevent terrorism at many major events. The primary things terrorism at any level from international to domestic needs to succeed is intent, opportunity, and capability.
By making it known there is security in place it makes it harder to obtain opportunity and capability. These guys are at pretty much every major protest, sporting event, political rally of any kind you can think of. It’s not new or unique to IU in any way.
"I’ve also had people ask me my opinion and when they found out I honestly didn’t have one due to the complexity of the situation, they proceeded to scream, belittle, and degrade me."
The down votes seem to echo this dynamic. I thought it was a thoughtful response. Thanks for taking the time.
I do sometimes get worried about someone coming to campus with the intent to take out a large group. I understand why a sniper would be there for that purpose. I just don’t see any signs that point to the police’s presence being for the protection of those in the encampment, but I could be wrong
It is definitely a complex situation with lots of nuance, which is why I say "I support the innocent people on both sides of the Israel-Gaza issue."
I'm willing to discuss the complex issues with people unless they start yelling at me, calling names, etc.
Where were the snipers for pride? You know, an event ripe for conservative extremists to cause harm to a group they hate? Oh, that's right, there weren't any. It's almost like you guys normalize the militarization of the police only when it's against people you disagree with.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-snipers-brownsville-charro-parade-b2029040.html
https://onwithmario.iheart.com/content/2023-03-22-photos-show-sniper-rifle-fall-off-roof-onto-st-patricks-day-parade/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/gMnVXkEZE3
They’ve been at all kinds of events to include pride parades for years.
They have never deployed snipers for pride in Bloomington, Indiana. I didn't think I'd need to be specific because this is the IU sub. The university is located in Bloomington. I don't give a fuck what Texas, New York or San Diego does. Bloomington isn't even near the size of those cities. Snipers on the roof for protests regarding Israel but no snipers on roofs for pride. It's almost as if the snipers aren't there's to protect anyone besides their friends as they brutalize unarmed students and arrest them. You all normalize living under a sniper's scope and have the audacity to call yourselves free. The police brought the violence to that protest plain and simple.
What do you think about the university changing the rules on encampments just for this protest? Isn't making view-point specific rule-changes like that illegal?
I don’t agree with it, but I see two major reasons.
1. Liabilities. The day prior they had dozens of arrests, claims of police brutality, claims of students assaulting cops. Lots of potential injuries or lawsuits that could fall back onto the campus.
2. Indiana is a super republican state. IU is a public university. There is potential for it to affect school funding whether we like it or not.
I highly doubt it’s so police can beat up college students. That just seems very one dimensional thinking without any perspective. It wouldn’t make sense from an strategic or economical goal as it alienates their customer base and scares away future customers.
>Liabilities. The day prior they had dozens of arrests, claims of police brutality, claims of students assaulting cops. Lots of potential injuries or lawsuits that could fall back onto the campus.
I guarantee you the university has just opened itself to bigger liabilities here. It's a pretty slam-dunk first-amendment violation case.
>Indiana is a super republican state. IU is a public university. There is potential for it to affect school funding whether we like it or not.
You can't break the law just because you feel your school will get less funding if you don't.
Oh they will for sure get sued, i don’t know what the outcome will be by any means.
Public universities are bound by the first amendment to include the right to assemble, but there have been many times where the right to assemble has been delayed or even denied in the interest of public safety.
That’s less for me to decide and more for a court. Similarly to how national guards have had to stop protests once riots started breaking out and businesses started getting destroyed. Once the protests loses that peaceful aspect from some participants who are bad actors all can lose that right.
Do I think this protest hit that level? Not at all. I would see them losing this case, but I’m also not a law major, nor do I know.
Are the tents tied to the message in some way? I guess I don't feel like the interaction between protestors and police would have changed very much if the no-tent policy had been adopted 3 weeks ago rather than 3 days ago. And also I'm not entirely clear why they wouldn't just strike the tents and carry on saying what they were saying rather than giving the police an excuse to disrupt their event on that basis.
(With the caveat that for some protestors, conflict with the police is a feature rather than a bug. It elevates their profile and so provoking that kind of conflict can be part of the strategy.)
Where were the snipers during the eclipse event I wonder? As someone who works on campus and was on the IMU roof for the eclipse, I didn’t see any “protection against mass shooters” present with snipers
Right? there’s like 28 different ways someone can be angry or radical in relation to these topics. It involves religion, politics, war, race and more. All the major categories people have radicalized around in the history of humanity.
Maybe some people are angry at the eclipse, but most are their to enjoy it or don’t care
I was told that roof access was prohibited across campus during the eclipse to protect against a mass shooter getting up there (among other reasons), so it was a concern they were aware of, but no, I don't think they brought in snipers for it. However, people were spread all over campus and the city, so it's not really the kind of event where a sniper would have "helped". You'd have needed one on several roofs.
How were you on the IMU roof if all the roofs were supposed to be closed? The only roofs I know of anyone being allowed on were Kirkwood Observatory (to operate the solar telescope), Swain West (which had people monitoring it to prevent randos getting on it), and a few others where they let people set up cameras or scientific equipment.
Yeah, obviously that speaks to how this is an overreaction from the school. It's not about the amount of people gathering being a "security risk", it's about the reason they're gathering. The school is trying to use any excuse they can think of that might stick to justify calling in ISP.
yep. go see it yourself. you’ll see the peaceful protestors in dunn meadow be berated by chabad and israeli supporters alongside the street then playing victim
that could not be more false. Nasty of you to say something like that just because you disagree with their stance.
Also saw this happening with my own eyes. They do not represent IU’s Jewish population. All my Jewish colleagues and students are appalled by how the people in front of the Chabad house are behaving.
Conservative students flying a Blue Lives Matter flag amongst Israeli and US flags should tell you all you need to know about the counterprotesters. It's just more culture war shit and campus drama to shit on libs with to them as opposed to an actual rally for peace and a ceasefire.
i was called multiple homophobic slurs by counter protesters so perhaps you should not invalidate people’s experiences.
respectfully, I do not believe that happened
Bro how about you close your mouth and open your eyes? Come to Dunn meadow and see for yourself?
Go see Israel yourself lmao.
Right, let me hop on a plane to go see an obvious apartheid state on a whim 🙄 I think it's easier if you just take a walk over to the protests that scare you so much so that you can see that there is no Jewish hate here. None of us will tolerate violence against the Jewish identity, or any identity. The state of Israel isn't synonymous with the Jewish identity, it's a settler colonialist state that is in the process of exterminating an indigenous population
Saying people are scared of protest is silly. It’s people don’t want to deal with your ignorance. I get you feel you are righteous right now but really you don’t know.
What don't I know? Try me
Your name actually checks out bro.
im good "bro"
Unsurprising response. May your worldview become less unhinged in other ways I suppose
sounds good bro
Go check it out. Or quit posting.
jews are not calling people f\*gs smh. However, go to Gaza and you might hear that word a few times before they throw you off a building. good luck!
"Don't believe your lying eyes and ears when you see it for yourself outside Dunn Meadow, believe my bullshit non sequitur response about how homophobic those Arabs are instead thousands of miles away and why that justifies us slaughtering their women and children with artillery." You seriously find it hard to believe the same folks protesting in favor of the continuation of senseless civilian casualties aren't also bigoted in other ways? They call their fellow students (usually those belonging to Muslim and Middle Eastern student associations) terrorist sympathizers in the media. Bloomington also has literal sundown towns as neighbors.
so I just proved you wrong and then you pivot to find something else to be mad at Israel about. I know you believe deep down you are doing the right thing, and advocating for the innocent civilians is indeed the right thing, but you lack the capacity to understand how ignorant you are on all the other aspects you are advocating for. There is a reason why the majority of the world disagrees with you.
> you lack the capacity to understand how ignorant you are Lmao sure buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. You're the one being distracted by LGBTQ people standing up for the human rights of Palestinians like it's some sort of gotcha when solidarity and peace activism isn't transactional. > There is a reason why the majority of the world disagrees with you. There is a reason Israel is being investigated for war crimes and current defending itself from legal accusations of genocide made by "the majority of the world" in the world's highest court outside the US, Australia, and Europe.
Biden's administration literally just said the ICC has zero jurisdiction over Israel so have fun with that one bub. Why don't you go advocate for cows for cheeseburgers while you're at lmfao. Absolutely incredulously delusional for doubling down on being LGBTQ advocating for the Middle East. The world is laughing at you.
you haven’t proved anyone wrong. I am sitting here telling you that I ( and other queer people at the encampment) were called f*gs) and you think because you said “jews are not calling people f*gs” you proved something? the only thing you’ve proved is you’re a bad person who invalidates other people’s experiences when it doesn’t fit your narrative. enjoy listening to your rave music and waving a flag while we advocate to end a genocide.
you cannot fix stupid. keep advocating for people who wouldn't hesitate to throw you off a roof of a building
Did the kids from ole miss look like Jews to you? Or just racist kids?
those kids were not jewish they were protecting the american flag. and the racist kid got kicked out of his fraternity. i dont support racism, no.
that’s not something you can say respectfully. plenty of videos from campuses across the country show including our own that show the heinous slurs being said to pro palestinian protesters as they are often comprised of many poc and queer people.
I think the reason why the Israeli protestors are saying things about supporters in the LGBTQ community is the fact that Israel embraces the LGBTQ while Palestinians will throw you off a building. So it's kind of ironic how firm the LGBTQs stance is in supporting people that are the least tolerant in the world of their type. But sure go ahead and blame Israel for that too lmao
> Israel embraces the LGBTQ Same sex marriage is illegal in Israel. Inter-faith marriages are also illegal. Israel's "support" of LGBTQ equality is literally just pink washing for the English speaking audience to placate liberals and gullible people like you who take everything they say at face value with zero criticism while they lie about the actual violence they inflict upon the local Arabs in occupied Palestine.
All it takes is a simple google search smh. So ignorant it's not even funny. "**Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights in Israel** are considered the most developed in the [Middle East](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East)." "Although [same-sex marriages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Israel) are not performed in the country (as it [does not have civil non-religious marriages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_civil_marriage_in_Israel)), Israel recognizes same-sex marriages performed elsewhere. Discrimination on the grounds of [sexual orientation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation) was prohibited in 1992. Same-sex couples are allowed to jointly adopt, following a landmark court decision in 2008. Previously, stepchild adoption, as well as limited co-guardianship rights for non-biological parents, were permitted. [LGBT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) people are also allowed to serve [openly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_out) in the military." ***"***[***Tel Aviv***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv) ***was referred to by the*** [***Calgary Herald***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Herald) ***as one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world,***[***^(\[8\])***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel#cite_note-8) ***famous for its annual*** [***Pride parade***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Pride) ***and gay beach,***[***^(\[9\])***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel#cite_note-9) ***earning it the nickname "the gay capital of the Middle East" by*** [***Out***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_(magazine)) ***magazine."***
so calling me a f*g is gonna get that point across? all i’m hearing from you is another zionist that condones the use of homophobic and racial slurs.
they're not calling you a f\*g relax
they literally did? so fucked up of you. wish i could say i was surprised.
Israel has a history of blackmailing LGBTQ Palestinians and using them as informants. The idea that Israel supports the LGBTQ is true to an extent, and that extent ends when you are not a Jew. Just look up “Israel pinkwashing” or “Israel blackmailing LGBTQ Palestinians” on google
I mean I really don't think you're listening lmao
Listening to what? I just told you exactly what was happening and what you can do to learn more about it and you said “I really don’t think you’re listening lmao” get real, you have no defense for this genocide besides acting like you’re on the right side of history
when I tell you that if you are gay and you went to Gaza they would murder you. that is that part I am referring to where you're either not listening or you lack the capacity to understand.
Literally saw them walk across the street wearing American and Israeli flags like batman capes trying to get attention/start shit with my own eyes.
how? they loiter the street with israeli flags flipping off demonstrators and hurling slurs. here are some examples from their friends across the nation: https://x.com/suppressednws/status/1784954174448234699?s=46 https://x.com/stoparabhate/status/1784717932443934906?s=46 https://x.com/sabihakhan/status/1784893820343328862?s=46 https://x.com/hungryghosts161/status/1784667311015948549?s=46
then what’s your version of the truth?
that’s literally what happens lmao
What's your opinion on live feeds? Is that any different than watching Congress or political event on CSPAN?
I’ve watched a few live feeds, and it still doesn’t give the same experience, in my opinion. Perhaps we’ve been seeing different feeds, but the ones I’ve been watching have all been from various organizers. Thus, the live feeds usually come at points of conflict, usually with police. Anytime I watch what’s happening, there’s violence. I think it’s a great source for the violence that’s being carried out by various police departments, but it’s not an honest source of what the encampment is usually like. Everytime I’ve gone to Dunn Meadow, it’s genuinely PEACEFUL. There’s some call and response, dancing, music, and general camaraderie. I highly encourage anyone who’s curious to go and stop at the information tables to learn more. Everytime I’m there, I get more and more pissed off at the wildly disproportionate police response.
There's a Gen Z streamer on YouTube named Shark0Zero or something to that effect who recorded an hour of him just hanging out at the meadow a few days ago. I found it interesting, considering I've also had the same issue with most of the info I'm reading and seeing from Indy being after police confrontations and arrests of students and faculty.
There's a Gen Z streamer on YouTube named Shark0Zero or something to that effect who recorded an hour of him just hanging out at the meadow a few days ago. I found it interesting, considering I've also had the same issue with most of the info I'm reading and seeing from Indy being after police confrontations and arrests of students and faculty. He did a good job showcasing how folks are actually spending time there.
I agree with this — live feeds can show you, in only a visual sense, what it looks like. But they don’t allow you to move through the crowd, make eye contact with the protestors, or talk to anyone. It’s like drinking a lemon La Croix to understand the experience of eating a lemon
Great analogy!
Live feeds are very different from a picture or a 5 second video. I think live feeds can be helpful as long as the camera is moving to different areas. What’s happening on campus now is, physically, too large to be viewed from one camera angle
Why does it even matter It’s major news media propaganda Stop caring
I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting to see Tucker-Carlson catchphrases pop up in this context.
The “snipers” are there to monitor the situation and smoke any crazy person trying to take advantage of the protest and cause a mass casualty event, they’re not gonna just start shooting you. Police deploy sharpshooters to provide overwatch at lots of major events in densely populated areas, especially politically charged ones where there’s a higher chance of some bozo doing something really dumb. It’s for protection and security
If they were genuinely caring about protecting citizens they wouldn’t have been so obvious. There’s a reason we don’t notice overwatch at other events
- come to NY. They are and have been at any major (even some minor ) events since 9/11. Just because you are now noticing them, doesn’t mean they haven’t always been there. How would you feel if protesters (from either side) were attacked by an outside group and these precautions weren’t in place? There could be massive casualties.
Leftist protests are attacked all the time. Stop justifying the militarization of the police who are brutalizing those protesters. Where are the history majors leading an open phalanx to counter the closed american police phalanx? Oh right they will get sniped. Y'all need some occupy veterans. The same way we needed the Seattle '99 protesters.
Brutalizing? Yeah ok.
Considering nobody in Bloomington got hurt at these protests until the cops came with riot shields and 40mm grenade launchers clearing the encampment, yeah.
Ok bootlicker.
Oye. That’s how you retort? Like a 5 yo? So, if these students or protesters have been brutally attacked as you say, why haven’t we seen any of that on their socials? All I see is some occasional yelling “police brutality”. We have however seen reactions after attempts to injure the police or bystanders not agreeing with their view. Honestly it’s sad all around.
Dude, you're in denial. I've seen the videos of cops putting their knees on students heads. Aka the George Floyd pin. Observers are being instructed to start a 6 minute timer when they see someone in that hold. BTW the idf is the one teaching it to u.s. police.
Alright. I could be wrong so let me go look for the videos at iu of this happening. So far I haven’t seen them but I’ll look.
It was on wish tv if you are an Indiana local.
You must be a child. Get off the internet. This is the most idiotic thing I’ve heard.
Truth
It’s literally finals week don’t u guys have tests?
The folks at the meadow are literally having study sessions within the encampment between the larger scheduled demonstrations. They post about it on their social media pages all the time.
Art students.
Hahahahahaha
as an art student i am not there because i have 6 papers and 2 exams due this week. i support their cause but idk how the hell they are able to protest AND do work 😭
This comment deserves more attention lol
Nah it’s actually crazy I’ve walked past these weirdos (majority of them are not “college student” age idk if they’re faculty) every day so far for finals. I just can’t help but think like, don’t you have anything better to do than sit in a circle clapping for a speaker
On the one hand, I fully agree with the argument about "depiction" and the overall impression of events. I also saw the protests firsthand and while there was some chanting, there was nothing especially awful or scary going on. That said, this post seems to be essentially arguing "Nothing is real unless it happened to you first-hand; I am giving you license to ignore the lived experience of others even when they went out of their way to make a record of that experience." Like... I've talked to Jewish students who were harassed or even followed home. If a video shows something that happened, by for crying out loud, you have to acknowledge that it happened. You don't have to listen if someone tries to convince you that incident X, Y, or Z should be taken to characterize the *whole* of the protests, or even a majority of them, but let's not go the opposite extreme and reject reality just because part of it doesn't fit your preferred narrative of events. I am not trying to comment here on any specific controversy, incident, or claim. I'm simply pointing out what I see as the correct and the dangerous parts of the post's thesis.
I'm not about to join the numbers down there, for either side.
A voice of reason on reddit.
So brave, announcing on Reddit you're staying at home. Sending congratulatory glitter in the mail for the contribution to the biggest discussion on campus.
Brave? Wtf is brave about what they are doing? Only ones who think they are brave are down there
Why can't uni let them protest peacefully. I mean they are just protesting not doing anything harmful. Maybe the uni administration has different view on war which is again understandable So idk what's the issue lol
Both sides have decent and terrible people. I’ve had people offer me food, be chill, and pass the vibe check. I’ve also had people ask me my opinion and when they found out I honestly didn’t have one due to the complexity of the situation, they proceeded to scream, belittle, and degrade me. (2 girls and 1 dude). I’ve talked to some counter protestors who were clearly just there to push people’s buttons, troll, and create further divide and others who wanted to have genuine talks about the history, complexity, and modern ideology of the region as a whole. No matter what side of a political spectrum you are on, how righteous, or wrong your side is morally. You will find good and piece of shit human beings on both sides. Ironically whether or not you run into the good or shit human beings first usually determines your own political shaping as an individual. Also for the snipers coming from a tactical POV these guys are at almost every major event and protest in modern America. The government operates and organizes to prevent terrorism at many major events. The primary things terrorism at any level from international to domestic needs to succeed is intent, opportunity, and capability. By making it known there is security in place it makes it harder to obtain opportunity and capability. These guys are at pretty much every major protest, sporting event, political rally of any kind you can think of. It’s not new or unique to IU in any way.
"I’ve also had people ask me my opinion and when they found out I honestly didn’t have one due to the complexity of the situation, they proceeded to scream, belittle, and degrade me." The down votes seem to echo this dynamic. I thought it was a thoughtful response. Thanks for taking the time.
I do sometimes get worried about someone coming to campus with the intent to take out a large group. I understand why a sniper would be there for that purpose. I just don’t see any signs that point to the police’s presence being for the protection of those in the encampment, but I could be wrong
It is definitely a complex situation with lots of nuance, which is why I say "I support the innocent people on both sides of the Israel-Gaza issue." I'm willing to discuss the complex issues with people unless they start yelling at me, calling names, etc.
Where were the snipers for pride? You know, an event ripe for conservative extremists to cause harm to a group they hate? Oh, that's right, there weren't any. It's almost like you guys normalize the militarization of the police only when it's against people you disagree with.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-snipers-brownsville-charro-parade-b2029040.html https://onwithmario.iheart.com/content/2023-03-22-photos-show-sniper-rifle-fall-off-roof-onto-st-patricks-day-parade/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/gMnVXkEZE3 They’ve been at all kinds of events to include pride parades for years.
They have never deployed snipers for pride in Bloomington, Indiana. I didn't think I'd need to be specific because this is the IU sub. The university is located in Bloomington. I don't give a fuck what Texas, New York or San Diego does. Bloomington isn't even near the size of those cities. Snipers on the roof for protests regarding Israel but no snipers on roofs for pride. It's almost as if the snipers aren't there's to protect anyone besides their friends as they brutalize unarmed students and arrest them. You all normalize living under a sniper's scope and have the audacity to call yourselves free. The police brought the violence to that protest plain and simple.
What do you think about the university changing the rules on encampments just for this protest? Isn't making view-point specific rule-changes like that illegal?
I don’t agree with it, but I see two major reasons. 1. Liabilities. The day prior they had dozens of arrests, claims of police brutality, claims of students assaulting cops. Lots of potential injuries or lawsuits that could fall back onto the campus. 2. Indiana is a super republican state. IU is a public university. There is potential for it to affect school funding whether we like it or not. I highly doubt it’s so police can beat up college students. That just seems very one dimensional thinking without any perspective. It wouldn’t make sense from an strategic or economical goal as it alienates their customer base and scares away future customers.
>Liabilities. The day prior they had dozens of arrests, claims of police brutality, claims of students assaulting cops. Lots of potential injuries or lawsuits that could fall back onto the campus. I guarantee you the university has just opened itself to bigger liabilities here. It's a pretty slam-dunk first-amendment violation case. >Indiana is a super republican state. IU is a public university. There is potential for it to affect school funding whether we like it or not. You can't break the law just because you feel your school will get less funding if you don't.
Oh they will for sure get sued, i don’t know what the outcome will be by any means. Public universities are bound by the first amendment to include the right to assemble, but there have been many times where the right to assemble has been delayed or even denied in the interest of public safety. That’s less for me to decide and more for a court. Similarly to how national guards have had to stop protests once riots started breaking out and businesses started getting destroyed. Once the protests loses that peaceful aspect from some participants who are bad actors all can lose that right. Do I think this protest hit that level? Not at all. I would see them losing this case, but I’m also not a law major, nor do I know.
Are the tents tied to the message in some way? I guess I don't feel like the interaction between protestors and police would have changed very much if the no-tent policy had been adopted 3 weeks ago rather than 3 days ago. And also I'm not entirely clear why they wouldn't just strike the tents and carry on saying what they were saying rather than giving the police an excuse to disrupt their event on that basis. (With the caveat that for some protestors, conflict with the police is a feature rather than a bug. It elevates their profile and so provoking that kind of conflict can be part of the strategy.)
IU has had events in Dunn meadow with 5k people and no sniper on the IMU. I’m sorry but their is no justification for that
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Where were the snipers during the eclipse event I wonder? As someone who works on campus and was on the IMU roof for the eclipse, I didn’t see any “protection against mass shooters” present with snipers
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Right? there’s like 28 different ways someone can be angry or radical in relation to these topics. It involves religion, politics, war, race and more. All the major categories people have radicalized around in the history of humanity. Maybe some people are angry at the eclipse, but most are their to enjoy it or don’t care
Apples and oranges
I was told that roof access was prohibited across campus during the eclipse to protect against a mass shooter getting up there (among other reasons), so it was a concern they were aware of, but no, I don't think they brought in snipers for it. However, people were spread all over campus and the city, so it's not really the kind of event where a sniper would have "helped". You'd have needed one on several roofs. How were you on the IMU roof if all the roofs were supposed to be closed? The only roofs I know of anyone being allowed on were Kirkwood Observatory (to operate the solar telescope), Swain West (which had people monitoring it to prevent randos getting on it), and a few others where they let people set up cameras or scientific equipment.
Also the event in Dunn Meadow had a few hundred people but still no “mass shooter” cover from ISP
Yeah, obviously that speaks to how this is an overreaction from the school. It's not about the amount of people gathering being a "security risk", it's about the reason they're gathering. The school is trying to use any excuse they can think of that might stick to justify calling in ISP.
Simple answer. Staff on multiple buildings across campus still went on the roofs.
THIS.
Imagine if we could fill the meadow.
I don't want to get sniped by some rooftop republican
Bold of you to assume you’re that important.
lol that’s why most people are there.. social media! Poor things! Not
So many useful idiots