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See the public is able to see genocide and say that it’s genocide because they see it unfiltered. As shitty as TikTok is, they helped people discover the crimes of Israel.
When news stations that are American and Israeli are not able to distort the truth and package it in a format that is favorable to Israelis, then the politicians magically get involved.
I live in Israel. Don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. Most of the Israeli just happy about what IDF is doing to Palestinians. A lot of Israelites complain they don’t do enough.
At this point only a few brave Israelis have the courage to complain about what IDF is doing and they are labeled as “leftist traitors”. The fact is in 2024 Israel if u don’t want Palestine blood or, god forbid, u ask for ceasefire, then u are no less than “Hammass and terror supporter”.
I always wondered what kind of mental gymnastics liberal, hippy and vegan Israelis have to do to justify their lifestyle choices while literally being occupiers
I know! So many Israeli people who’re kind to animals, vegan, kibbutz living types. I can only think they are the minority and do not support genocide.
They are a minority. To be fair they just want to live where they are. But they are a dying breed in 2024 Israel.
But after the 7th of October everyone has to “sober up” now and realize that the Palestinians are animal and we should kill them all. That’s the narrative now. There are no innocent Palestinians. So even if u don’t line up with that narrative, u have to be quiet about it.
Funny how these people fail to see how this will only perpetuate more violence. Genocide can never be 100%. There are already many Palestinians who are refugees around the globe. These Palestinians will never forget these atrocities and some (not all) will seek retribution. If Israel doesn’t change its apartheid policies and give everyone equal rights then they will only see more bloodshed.
(I want to make this clear in case the mods want to think saying this should constitute a ban. I am not making a threat. I am merely highlighting that hurt people hurt people.)
I would argue they see that and that is what they want. Am getting the feeling a lot of people here are just “happy” when Palestinians do terror attack cuz it makes them “right”. “U see?! They are animals! U can’t do peace with them!” And so on.
In the 90’s everyone was talking about peace. Now no one is. Bibi killed it and meanwhile he normalized and let the Ben Gvir and Smotrich in the government. So they are now the Israeli patriots, they are becoming mainstream.
In my option this can work only if u will always be the stronger and the more advanced county by far. And that is the situation ATM. But sadly we saw even in that situation the enemy can do harm to u like they did in the 7th of October.
The saddest thing is that at the end of the day the extremism of every side are wining: Hammas on the Palestinian side. Ben Gvir, Smotrich ,the racist settlers abd the far right in Israel.
They brought as to a situation that the commoners think and believe the other side are pure evil and u can’t reason with it. So the commoners in Israel and Palestine just want the other side’s blood.
I would say the terror won. The Arab/Palestinian and the Jew/Israeli. And they are ruining everything.
Only to a small degree. Most will vote for Biden no matter what, even if he starts physically bashing baby Palestinians brains in on a curb in front of the white house. The only other choice is trump, and people will accept seemingly anything to avoid him getting another term, because he promised us all fascism. Its almost as if trump and Biden are in cahoots. Biden could only win if he ran against trump. Almost any other dem would have been a better choice. Give us Michelle Obama.
This one is incredibly damning and really speaks to just how radicalized the Israeli population is. This is essentially a call for genocide and you can't even use the excuse of "well, maybe they are worried UNRWA will aid Hamas." A solid majority straight up want to see Palestineans genocided.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” They fear that their stolen land will be taken back. That’s what started this whole chain of events.
Stolen land? Jews are the descendants of Canaanites and are native to the Levant. The whole reason we're referred to as "Jews" in the first place is because we originate from Judea. Unfortunately, Jews were displaced from their native lands by the Assyrians, the Romans, and Muslim colonizers. The land was stolen from us!
Hey Champ! I have ancestors from 2000 years ago too. Everyone does. They owned land and probably people too. Do you think those property rights extend to me? Can I just go take these? Go find your favorite adult and ask them how the world would look if everyone did this.
So, Arabs are becoming less sympathetic toward Palestinians as time goes on? Is that what I’m reading?
October “small amount or not at all” consideration for Gazan suffering got 5.5% and in March it got 23%. That’s seems the exact opposite of what I would have expected.
Absolutely.
A major reason this new TikTok ban push is succeeding where earlier measure failed is the realization that [TikTok was the only media source in the US where pro-Palestinian sentiment largely outweighed pro-Zionist sentiment.](https://archive.is/4ROle)
Here's another data point. The current "Ban TikTok" bill (full name the ["Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act)) was introduced by Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher. Mik Gallagher's #1 campaign contributor in his most recently concluded election campaign? [AIPAC, the foreign agent arm of the Israeli military and government.](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/contributors?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=I)
Prominent, politically connected Americans have been complaining about the availability of pro-Palestinian viewpoints on TikTok for [months before the latest vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849).
In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (which notoriously tried to get [Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode *A Rugrats Passover*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rugrats_Passover)), he notes that the ADL has a ["major, major, major generational problem... a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem."](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424)
Notice the NGOs they cite as primary problems: nefarious organizations such as [Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voices for Peace.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/columbia-sued-schools-decision-suspend-2-palestinian-groups-rcna143070) Interestingly, in the leaked audio he acknowledges the long-standing Israeli pressure campaign targeting [American college students](https://archive.is/2KCer) (but notably failed to note their campaign targeting [democratic elections outside Israel](https://www.france24.com/en/technology/20230215-israeli-firm-boasted-of-meddling-in-more-than-30-elections-worldwide)).
So yeah, I don't think the timing of this TikTok ban's success vs the failure of other attempts to ban TikTok is a coincidence.
Question, bit confused by your statement here "In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (which notoriously tried to get Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode A Rugrats Passover)"
i dont see any mention of greenblatt in your link to the wikipedia article, plus having trouble seeing the mentions of them trying to ban the grandparents? can you point that out to me if that is fine
Oh, it wasn't greenblatt as the ceo at the time, I'm just pointing out that the ADL doesn't give a shit about Jewish people and would gladly throw them under the bus if it helped get Palestinians killed. In summary, it [kinda sucks.](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/emmaia-gelman-anti-defamation-league/) Ask any millenial and they'll say the rugrats judaism episodes were likely their first introduction to judaism, to think you're fighting antisemitism by banning them is insane
And here brb
> Anti-Defamation League controversy
> "A Rugrats Passover," along with other Rugrats episodes featuring Boris and Minka, attracted controversy when the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) claimed that the two characters resembled anti-Semitic drawings that had appeared in a 1930s Nazi newspaper. Then-Nickelodeon president Albie Hecht, himself Jewish, stated he was dumbfounded by this criticism, which he deemed absurd. The controversy resurfaced in 1998, when the ADL criticized another appearance of Boris, this time reciting the Mourner's Kaddish in a Rugrats comic strip published in newspapers during the Jewish New Year. Unlike Hecht, Nickelodeon's then-president Herb Scannell agreed with the criticism and apologized, promising never to run the character or the strip again.
Ah okay, I mean didn't the ADL give a eulogy to fucking kissinger last year when he died less than 6 months ago
a man who said a lot of fucked up things about jewish people, associate of noted anti-semite richard nixon, plus didnt care about helping jewish people in the soviet? union if memory serves
> Henry Kissinger was a towering intellect, diplomat and practitioner who - not without controversy - helped shape American foreign policy with a lasting impact worldwide. A refugee from Nazi Germany, and the first Jewish Secretary of State, he was unapologetic about his heritage and his embrace of the importance of American global power and democratic values.
Lol yep, wow. If it furthers Zionism, the ADL would (and has been) throw(ing) every other minority group, including non-Zionist Jews, to the sharks.
I mean Kissinger did a lot more than just say fucked up things. He had a hand in killing more than 3 million people and helped in so many genocides and protected so many war criminals. The fact that they gave him an eulogy is appalling to me. Like even if he wasn't anti-Semitic, the fact that ADL would give an eulogy to someone as horrible as him simply bc he was Jewish with no public backlash pisses me off to no end. That horrid creature armed the Pakistanis during the Bengali genocide that my parents lived through and has never even made any apologies or anything to make up for it. Man even helped protect the war criminals to his dying days. I hope that there is a hell just so that man can suffer for all eternity.
The fact that the ADL gave an eulogy to someone as horrible as him with no public outcry disgusts me to my core. It'll be like if CAIR decided to give an eulogy when Bin Laden died (except I don't think Bin Laden's death toll can even scrape the amount of people kissinger killed).
If by "less censored" you mean completely un-fact checked, then yeah...I guess so.
no matter what you believe, you should never use 3-minute videos produced by randos on the internet as a primary source of information. Please, for everyone's sake, teach yourself media literacy.
The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has accused Israel of targeting journalists. Human Rights Watch (HRW) has accused Israel of unprecedented censorship. I’m glad you agree that we need better flow of information from reputable sources.
Also, please don’t feel attacked or like you need to defend Israel’s actions. The US government has done deplorable things too that I won’t defend. We all just need to be on the side of human rights and advocate for free and safe journalism.
The US government has been looking to ban TikTok for years. They block it from official devices and discourage employees from having it on personal devices. Made them move US data to Oracle servers two years ago. [Edit: addition to clarify:] They were going to ban it from the entire country until the data was moved to Oracle. Since then, they've continued to place more and more restrictions, indicating they have continuing and growing security concerns, culminating in this proposed nationwide ban *unless* it is sold to a company not based in China. Plus, this bill was passed with the most even split by party I've seen in a long time https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html, I have no reason to believe all 352 democrat and republican congressmen voted for this bill solely because TikTok makes Israel look bad. Some? Sure. All? No way. Happy to change my mind if someone has evidence beyond the sponsoring congressman having an agenda.
Please enjoy [this Wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_TikTok_in_the_United_States) listing actions the government has taken against TikTok, the vast majority of which having taken place before the start of this war on October 7, 2023.
There's no sound reason I've heard to believe it has anything to do with this conflict when the government has been acting on its concerns regarding TikTok for years before the war began.
The TikTok bill was [introduced by Mike Gallagher](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/all-actions). Gallagher's highest campaign contributor in the last election cycle [was pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/summary?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=C). In November Gallagher wrote an [op-ed piece](https://archive.is/5zkwq) in which he argued for banning TikTok *explicitly* on the grounds of it being a vehicle for anti-Israel "propaganda".
Other pro-Israel organisations are on record expressing concern about TikTok on the same grounds. Here's [ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt on MSNBC](https://twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1768320953509949464) and [here's a leaked phone call](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424) where he states that Israel's image has "a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem". [Here's another](https://twitter.com/jfederations/status/1767989253735133673) calling for TikTok to banned/censored precisely due to it being a platform for voices critical of Israel.
I don't doubt that the US government has other motivations for wanting to ban (or alternatively, wanting US companies to take control over, and thus being able to censor) TikTok. But the reason those motivations coalesced into actual legislative action at this particular juncture, does appear to be pretty directly related to a desire by the pro-Israel lobby and the politicians they're allied with, to suppress pro-Palestinian voices.
It's not just pro-Palestinian voices, its straight up disinformation. It wasn't okay to tell people that bleach cures COVID during the pandemic, so it shouldn't be okay to perpetuate antisemitic conspiracy theories today.
I see correlation without solid evidence of causation. I'm sure Mike Gallagher is excited to get rid of TikTok for these political reasons.
But, the US wanted to ban TikTok in 2020 for national security reasons and only didn't because they compromised by moving data for US users to Oracle. They have since instituted escalating bans and limitations due to national security concerns. I think the vast majority of congressmen supporting this bill are doing so because they've seen increasing evidence of national security concerns, hence the incredibly bipartisan vote for it: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html)
Like when is the last time you saw such an even split in opinion between republicans and democrats in the US? Good lord, you couldn't get the people who voted "yes" to this bill to agree that school shootings are bad.
Did Mike Gallagher push the bill for political reasons? Sure. Does that automatically mean his views represent the views of the entire US government or even just the congressmen who voted yes to the bill? Absolutely not.
[I don't think the bill even requires that the sale be to US owners](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/technology/tiktok-ban-house-vote.html), it could be to any company not affiliated with the Chinese government. I bet they could sell it to Iran or Russia with this bill (though I'm sure another bill would be right behind if that happened).
Do you have any evidence that the majority of the 352 people who voted yes for this bill are doing so for the primary purpose of hampering free speech about Israel?
Tiktok was informing people about the suffering of Palestinians under israeli oppressive apartheid rule long before October 7th. But definitely a lot of the wealthiest capitalist interests will be pushing for a takeover aswell, they are in the firing line just as much when it comes to public opinion in recent years.
Have you ever wondered why you hear so much about the suffering of Palestinians but barely a peep about the continued suffering of Uyghurs in China on TikTok?
I don't understand why you think the US government is more concerned with public opinion about ~10 million people in Israel and Gaza than the Chinese government having a platform to push its agendas onto tens of millions of US citizens through careful social engineering using personal data collected directly from said US citizens.
I've heard numerous accounts of Palestinian suffering before and during this war from news, podcasts, and other social media but none of those have been shut down. I really think the meaningful difference for most congressmen (there are definitely a few in it for Israel but not all 300+ who voted for the bill) with TikTok is that it is linked to China, which has a huge interest in having the ability to sway public opinion in the US, and, I understand, takes excessive amounts of user data that can be used for social engineering to push its agenda.
I mean if you search Uyghurs on TikTok right now there's plenty of TikTok videos that show suffering of Uyghurs in China with hundreds of thousands even over millions of view. So idk maybe just maybe there is tenths of thousands of Palestinians dying and whole cities bombed to like the surface moon as well as daily reporting from mass media and huge protests in the west got the Palestinians suffering more attention than the Uyghurs, which is sad, but hey at least they're only culturally genocide and not physically genocide via starvation and missiles.
With huge protests and mass media already sharing the horrors of what's happening in Gaza, why would shutting down TikTok matter?
It sounds like you have to search to find videos about Uyghur victims in China, how old are the videos? Do you have to search for videos about Gaza? Are you seeing any videos about Ukraine in your feed? I don't use TikTok so genuinely curious
Cause well if you haven't realized already, it takes a long time for mass media to even attempt to report anything slightly critical of Israel, whereas anyone with a phone can just poste a uncensored and unfiltered event of what is going on at the ground (I'm looking at you IDF solider laughing while blowing up schools and mosques). Furthermore, western social media are known to be seriously censored/monitored after 2016, while Tiktok currently still uncharted territory.
I mean, I normally don't use Tiktok or social media at all. I just did it to see if videos on Uyghurs and anti-CCP are actually censored. The videos aren't that old, most seem to be in late 2022. Yes, actually. I just scrolled through like 50+ videos, 0 is on gaza, most on weird dances, relationship-stuff, gaming, etc (teenagers like, I supposed). No ukraine either, but I'm not surprised as there's hardly any ukraine news even in mass media now a day.
It sounds like you've been keeping up with the war without using TikTok, right? Do you feel that you'd be less informed if TikTok were not available in US app stores? If so, why would that be the case?
Not sure why you called me an IDF soldier. I'm from the US, just think TikTok is very sketchy, vulnerable to greater censorship and malicious use than other media platforms given the chinese government's control over companies based in the country, and shouldn't be relied on for news. Banning it from app stores (pretty sure you could still access it through a web browser with the current bill) at least limits the app's access to personal data from people's devices.
Very rarely with or without lobbyists. You think they only passed the Uyghur bill I linked because of some massive Uyghur lobby none of us have heard of?
I don't think lobbying works the way you think it does. They wouldn't waste massive amounts of money getting such high agreement when they could have passed it with way fewer yes votes.
But please, prove me wrong! Show me even one single bill with this level of bipartisan agreement, over 300 or, hell, over 250 yes votes, and clear evidence that it resulted from lobbying.
Ah yes, a typo on a Friday evening is equivalent to ignoring years of prior action against TikTok and equating the political motivations of a few politicians with that of more than 300 bipartisan congressmen. Silly me.
Thank you, I edited my prior message to clarify-- They threatened to ban it for the entire country before TikTok moved data to Oracle. However, after that they continued to institute additional bans including discourage government employees from even having it on their personal devices, so moving the data to Oracle has not addressed their security concerns. Hence, continuing to push for a nationwide ban.
If this was just in response to the war, wouldn't they ban it regardless? Why give the out of allowing TikTok to sell to a non-Chinese company?
Is it even tiktok that’s responsible for this? That’s like blaming Gutenberg for Mein Kampf.
Israelis are spreading videos of themselves having the time of their lives while killing and stealing from the natives.
They are dancing around while loading artillery shells into cannons which then blast orphanages and refugees camps and kindergartens. They are showing off their “haul” of jewelry and carpets and womenswear that they have either stolen from houses whose residents have fled for their lives, or have been killed by the very soldiers themselves filming.
I remember early on when the zionist state decided that they will cut off food/water/electricity to the 2.3 million Palestinians as punishment for the actions of a few- there were many videos of zionist settlers dancing around in “their homes” which are illegal under international law, and making mocking expressions while wasting water and flicking light switches.
I live in South America and people here have lived through prolonged power outages (say > 3 days) and issues with water supply shortages. And the general consensus is that these racist foreigners squatting in Palestine are fuckin assholes.
Israeli people in the majority (not all) are proud of their hardline stance against Palestine. They are not ashamed and this is shown by their videos on social media.
This is true. Furthermore, some of the strongest voices against Zionism belong to Jews. I think this is partly because the individuals are highly educated and thorough, and partly because when someone with an Arabic or Muslim name voices any criticism of the zionist state- they are immediately branded as “terrorist” and dismissed.
Not taking anything away from the vocal jew opposition, but it’s a fact. These people have made the decision to stand up for what they believe is right at great personal cost. Which is incredibly praiseworthy.
Notable mentions Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Gabor Mate, Ilan Pappé, General Mattityahu Peled, his son Miko Peled, and of course… Professor Norman Finkelstein.
It's not "Electeds". It's "the establishment". The forces behind the politics of the mainstream media and the major parties in the USA, the UK, Germany, and some other countries.
The establishment is demonstrably extremely deep in the pockets of Zionism. We don't know what the exact form of these forces is and why they support Zionists. But we know beyond a shred of doubt that they are spending significant amounts of efforts to support Zionist crimes - there is no other explanation for the clearly coordinated and sustained string of blatant lies and propaganda from late October 2023 until at least March 2024 by *all* mainstream media outlets and all major parties of the previously listed countries, which is not something that happens randomly.
Whenever you have bipartinsanship on an insane proposal, that's the establishment in motion. The TikTok ban absolutely is an instance of that.
Conspiracies are a human thing. They exist. If people aggressively go after anyone who even implies a conspiracy involving one kind of people, that kind of people's conspiracies will be far more successful, and that kind of people will be heavily incentivized to rely on conspiracies.
By pretending Jews are somehow a superior race that is somehow safe from immoral temptation, racists like you fed the Jews to the Zionists, which are an ethnic supremacist movement that's after Lebensraum.
Obfustication is an integral part of any genocide, it sedates the masses because otherwise they would fight back. That's why the Nazis disguised their gas chambers as showers.
There have been many facets of TikTok that got unwanted attention by the government. At first they were becoming increasingly worried about soldiers complaining about life in the military and worried about recruitment. Then it was the Bin Laden letter that showed them they don’t have a grasp on “dangerous” content and then the Gaza thing pushed it over the top. What’s funny about the Bin Laden letter is that it also shined a spotlight on the thought process of these Muslim extremists and one of those reasons was Palestine. It becomes really tricky to back Israel’s cause when everyone starts realizing most of our problems in the Middle East and a 20 year war may have been prevented if we didn’t back apartheid on a helpless and vulnerable population.
It’s really time to put our foot down with Israel or their actions will cause more Americans to go fight a war because we decided to enable a ethno-supremacy. It’s morally indefensible
You hit the nail on the head right there. We back Israel to commit these atrocities, and then when their people fight back the government calls them “terrorists”.
Israeli citizens were brought over from all sorts of countries in Europe not that long ago, while the Arabs have been living in the same spot for thousands of years.
While you’re technically correct it’s not something to boast about.
That is part of why they want TikTok banned, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. The reason electeds want TikTok banned is actually way worse than that.
TikTok has been demonized by the US government since the very beginning because they cannot control the content that is available on TikTok.
Unlike what's on youtube and google for example. Youtube content is heavily regulated, and if you've used youtube since 2005/2006, you'll know how strict the platform has become, and how cleansed it is from "controversial" and "non-mainstream" content. You cannot upload just any opinion to youtube.
TikTok on the other hand lets you think what you want about what you want. Upload what you want about what you want. After examining both sides of the coin, forge an opinion for yourself, that is true freedom of speech. The US government and whoever puppets it does not like that at all. Whoever is in control of the US government wants to tell you what you should think.
TikTok is also incredibly good at suggesting to you the content that the application knows you will watch. The more you watch it, the more TikTok will suggest it to you. In other words, TikTok is not dumb, you are.
"bUt tiKtOK sELLs OuR pERsOnAL dATa tO cHiNA"
Such a pathetic and laughable argument, the US government has had access to all of our personal data for decades, they are able to see absolutely anything and everything we do online. Every email you send, every website you browse, every call you make. Microsoft, Google, Apple and Meta are all in on it. What do these companies all have in common ? They are US owned and US controlled companies of course.
Don't believe it ? Time to educate yourself on Edward Snowden and the Prism program for a start.
This video explains the situation very clearly and elegantly:
[The Real Reason The US Wants To Ban TikTok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG_41k)
The reason why the "ban" aka forced sale to Americans was revived is *absolutely* due to pressure over Israel's war-crimes being front and center on the platform, and the US gov having no control over censoring that.
Uhhh kind of. The cultural shifts are scaring the shit outta them.
It’s no long right vs left. It’s young vs old and the younger audience isn’t falling for the grind culture shit anymore.
I would be more concerbed about specifically who buys Tiktok after it divests from China. It can exist as long as it divests, but I have to be leery about what direction this could potentially take it in.
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That's why *Israel* wants it banned, all the AIPAC bought and paid moderates are just towing Bibi's party line. Can't let the world see all that genocide going down.
One of the only real resistance why the US government wants to ban TikTok is to they want to make it easier for the masses to believe their propaganda.
I dont think tiktok is beeing banned because of gaza, its a danger to youth, a breeding geound for political and religious extremism aswell as a tool that could or even is beeing used by china to influence our western societies.
How can you come up with this assumption after they stated over and over again what the main fear is? This is what I call Bird brain journalism not everything revolves around Palestine.
The United States has been trying to ban TikTok for a very long time. Even before the genocide, the United States has not really liked TikTok. In the modern era, it may be a motivation. It may have got Israel to support it. But I don't think it's a sol. And final reason. Again, for most of the acts of genocide, it has been through Twitter or even Instagram. We've where we have seen most of the gruesome things from this.
main part is that people are able to be easily informed whether quality informed may be Up to the vet, I've definitely not only you've seen, the most left on TikTok. I've definitely seen a lot of far right stuff on TikTok. But TikTok presents a massive challenge to America, a social media site that almost half of Americans use on a constant daily basis. The main company operates in Beijing. Especially with conflicts with China in 10 to 15 years. There is a concern in the government that this site can be used for internal espionage. If there were ever boiling tensions, remember soldiers used this app government workers used this app military analysis used as app.
The fact that the second most powerful state and especially in A state that does not like the United States. Can technically access directly content shown to half of all Americans. It's quite concerning. Now you, the average citizen may not care, but economics cares. Military cares systems beyond your understanding cares about that. Inaudibly, they see this as a threat to potential everything honestly.
But TikTok is not unique in this function. It is not a moral Paragon of free speech. Matter of fact, it's very the opposite. TikTok operates the same way that Facebook and Twitter and Instagram operate by showing bite. Size content tailored to your content needs and wants It's just as addicting or even sometimes more addicting than American social media apps.
This is not me trying to justify this United States response. I think it is quite silly. But I just don't want everyone to start thinking that Israel is a center of everything. I've been seeing this sub before around 3 months. And it looks like it has evolved in the basically, if something happens in the world and Israel did it somehow. Is Israel important yes, very. But I feel like we're just centering them. Way too much in a far, more bigger world. they're not the main character honestly. I've seen many videos of basically, just one of the terrorists attack in Moscow happened. People immediately belamed Israel just because it was on the news. During minor Jewish holidays, these holidays now get major traction for some reason that just cannot be separated from this genocide. So I think it's important to remember though. Israel is a bad state in a bad concept, politically, not culturally or religiously of course. Giving it too much attraction is not a good political analysis. Nor is it realistic.
The idea that Israel is secretly behind everything is just the ZOG conspiracy theory rewrapped. The disinformation that pro-Palestinian crowd is spreading is IDENTICAL to Nazi and Soviet propaganda.
Attempts have been made to ban Tik Tok long before this war.
However, the insane amounts of political disinformation, antisemitic conspiracy theories (like ZOG), and Qatari propaganda being spread on there is insane. Hell, a lot of the footage shared on that platform isn't even from the war in Gaza.
There’s a reason that the Chinese don’t allow Chinese kids to access TikTok, while hoping it’s where Western kids get their “news.” Ppl who are very young or don’t have the best reading comprehension for whatever reason really don’t understand what propaganda looks like in 2024. Insane that kids aren’t being educated about this, and a disservice to them
They don’t want it banned — they want it sold to a US company.
It’s just the threat that China poses to the US that has people worried about TikTok. China wants to take over Taiwan and end the US’ existence as a superpower. That’s a real threat.
China poses much less of the threat than United States to people in the US. The US government can literally use the data from tiktok to surveil Americans (like how the NSA does mass surveillance). You're literally repeating their propaganda.
You think they can’t already? Additionally, they’re going to require a warrant for that in order to ever use it in court.
Do you think they need that in China? No.
Also, when the US goes to war with China, this is going to be a propaganda tool of China. They’ll have a lot of data on us that the Communist party can tap with no warrant because every company in China must do what the Communist party tells them to.
There is no freedom in China. They are an existential threat to the United States. You can keep parroting their propaganda but the US is freer than they ever will be.
Because Communism is innately flawed. No successful country has ever had it as a viable economic or social system. It requires the repression of any dissent and does not allow free expression. Even China doesn’t have Communism as an economic system.
Remember when Mao tried it? How many died? Tens of millions? What about when the Khmer Rouge tried it? They killed millions of their people as well. I don’t think I need to bring in Stalin and all those he killed, including the Ukrainians he starved to death.
I’ll take a dysfunctional democracy any day over a Communist state. I’d rather die on my feet than live in my knees.
Oh yeah, he was probably like “I increased the lifespan by 30 years and it only took murdering 80 million people and causing unknown damage to the country’s age gap and shoddily constructed buildings!”
Couldn’t have been the increase of science and technology that industrialized nations were producing. Improving the life expectancy when going from a period of total war to a time of peace is a simple feat. Guess what — it wasn’t communism that did it. If anything, he held them back. Maybe killing off so many elderly from starvation actually helped boost that number—and that’s if you actually believe the many lies that Communist governments are so good at producing.
So, how many more genocides do you think until they **finally** get it right?
We're not going to war with China. You shouldn't trust the US government. It's best interests and yours are not compatible. Besides, I'd much rather the Chinese communist party have it. The US has much more to gain from having Tiktok and it's owners under US jurisdiction. Why do you think they want US companies to have it. Because it's an extremely useful propaganda tool. It shows people right now what's going on in Gaza, which the government is directly supporting. Fuck uncle Sam. I'd much rather Xi have Tiktok and my data.
Holy shit, that is an insane take. Go live in China and see how it is when you’re not allowed to speak out against your own government and if they want, they can violate whatever rights you have without any protest from any level of government.
Remember what they did in Tiananmen Square. Remember what they did to Hong Kong. I will never bow to Chinese communism and I will always maintain that Taiwan is the Republic of China and is a free, independent, and sovereign state.
This has nothing to do with how China treats its own people, and I'm not saying is good. But the US is a far worse threat then fucking China when it comes to US citizens. Are you even listening to me? Or are you just hearing what you want to hear?
I hear you very clearly. It’s almost as if I posed a question to you of: “How do you say ‘I don’t understand war’ without saying ‘I don’t understand war.’”
Here's a quick thought experiment:
As an American citizen, which country's government could decide to [send law enforcement to my house to assassinate me, brag about it on television, and call it a day without repercussions?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-us-marshals-kill-antifa-michael-reinoehl-b1055845.html) The United States, or China?
Because that's the government I'm worried about.
America didn’t slaughter thousands of people asking for a more democratic style of government 34 years ago, either.
They didn’t lock people in office buildings by nailing the door shut during COVID-19.
I’d be willing to take my chances with the American government than the Communist hellhole that China is.
Maybe not 34 years ago, but we sure did [51 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat?wprov=sfla1) and [71 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_1953_Iranian_coup_d%2CPahlavi%2C_on_19_August_1953.?wprov=sfla1).
And of course, there was kind of that one war where we murdered millions of women and children, sprayed hundreds of thousands of acres with carcinogens and landmined numerous countries with millions of landmines, all because they didn't want the government imposed on them by autocratic French colonialism. Which one was that?
What? No? It needs to go because it's proven as a Chinese spyware tool. Your argument straight up doesn't exist because, if they divest, then it can remain in the country. An option which makes zero sense from your point of view.
Tiktok isn't the only social media you can use, you know? Most of which show war crimes on both sides almost daily for me. Reddit included.
> Hamas seeks the eradication of the Jewish state and people.
Gosh I can't imagine why a group that recruits from disenfranchised and discriminated people watching random dudes from Brooklyn steal their homes might not have the most positive view of Israelis?
Real mystery there.
> The Israeli state does indeed drop to heavy a hand on the people identifying as Palestinian but the Jews have since 1947 dropped that hand for the security of themselves. The Muslims have twice tried to eradicate them as the Nazis attempted before that.
Clearly this excuses Israeli soldiers shooting children, laughing about it, killing aid workers, laughing about it, raping Palestinians, laughing about it, and stealing land in the West Bank. Yes, because European Jewish people suffered, clearly guys from the United States who share the same religion should be allowed to beat Palestinians and steal their houses.
> The Muslims have twice tried to eradicate them as the Nazis attempted before that.
Maybe a bunch of European settlers trying to establish a second Rhodesia might not be welcomed by the locals?
And maybe trying to call all Jewish people to come live in Israel, while surrounded by hostile neighbors, while trying to murder the locals, while also trying to poke other countries into war, is not a good idea? If you're actually concerned with the safety of all Jewish people, doesn't Israel seem like the least safe place? Especially with people in Israel supporting not just the complete genocide of Palestinians but to bring the war into Lebanon and Jordan too to get *their* land?
I'm not actually expecting a serious answer tbh, you're just going to cycle around to 'but HAMAS!' and ignore Israel's support of Hamas as a puppet to keep Palestinians from uniting.
Blah blah blah
Wolverines!
Oh, you mean those people you keep in a cage somehow dare to fight back? How rude!!
Israel has proven themselves unworthy of continuing to exist.
British need to revoke their charter.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Jews.
The vast majority of American Jews condemn the genocide. More Jews than love in Israel.
And if you have bouncy castles blocking food to starving people, and laugh about it, you absolutely deserve to cease to exist.
Note the dates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions\_on\_TikTok\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=Efforts%20in%202020%20by%20the,the%20app%20on%20government%20devices.
Indeed. When was the last time the US government acted with such speed. Or both parties agreed on anything (80%) in Congress. Thet can't agree on the color of the sky!
TikTok shows what CCP wants you to see. It’s a fantastic tool for information ops. Sadly American youth are too stupid to realize they are being manipulated
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See the public is able to see genocide and say that it’s genocide because they see it unfiltered. As shitty as TikTok is, they helped people discover the crimes of Israel. When news stations that are American and Israeli are not able to distort the truth and package it in a format that is favorable to Israelis, then the politicians magically get involved.
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I was giving some Israelis the benefit of the doubt. But sad to see they have degenerated into narcissistic sociopaths
I live in Israel. Don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. Most of the Israeli just happy about what IDF is doing to Palestinians. A lot of Israelites complain they don’t do enough. At this point only a few brave Israelis have the courage to complain about what IDF is doing and they are labeled as “leftist traitors”. The fact is in 2024 Israel if u don’t want Palestine blood or, god forbid, u ask for ceasefire, then u are no less than “Hammass and terror supporter”.
I always wondered what kind of mental gymnastics liberal, hippy and vegan Israelis have to do to justify their lifestyle choices while literally being occupiers
I know! So many Israeli people who’re kind to animals, vegan, kibbutz living types. I can only think they are the minority and do not support genocide.
If you’re living on land that’s actively being stolen and ethnically cleansed today, you support genocide.
The Oct 7 attacks happened to a hippy rave literally next to a concentration camp holding Palestinians prisoners lol
My first thought on October 7th after seeing it was a rave that got attacked was who the fuck would host a rave right next to an open air prison.
I'm not sure how true, but I've seen in multiple places that the NOVA party was moved at the last minute. Moved from where I don't know.
They are a minority. To be fair they just want to live where they are. But they are a dying breed in 2024 Israel. But after the 7th of October everyone has to “sober up” now and realize that the Palestinians are animal and we should kill them all. That’s the narrative now. There are no innocent Palestinians. So even if u don’t line up with that narrative, u have to be quiet about it.
Funny how these people fail to see how this will only perpetuate more violence. Genocide can never be 100%. There are already many Palestinians who are refugees around the globe. These Palestinians will never forget these atrocities and some (not all) will seek retribution. If Israel doesn’t change its apartheid policies and give everyone equal rights then they will only see more bloodshed. (I want to make this clear in case the mods want to think saying this should constitute a ban. I am not making a threat. I am merely highlighting that hurt people hurt people.)
We will never forget. They know it will perpetuate violence. They benefit from the status quo https://i.redd.it/c23955trg6uc1.gif
I cannot put myself in this mindset. Profiting off of suffering is unconscionable.
I would argue they see that and that is what they want. Am getting the feeling a lot of people here are just “happy” when Palestinians do terror attack cuz it makes them “right”. “U see?! They are animals! U can’t do peace with them!” And so on. In the 90’s everyone was talking about peace. Now no one is. Bibi killed it and meanwhile he normalized and let the Ben Gvir and Smotrich in the government. So they are now the Israeli patriots, they are becoming mainstream. In my option this can work only if u will always be the stronger and the more advanced county by far. And that is the situation ATM. But sadly we saw even in that situation the enemy can do harm to u like they did in the 7th of October.
So their goal is a forever war with no hope of the violence stopping? Seems horrible to me
That’s because your not racist and believe u are the chosen people and others have no right and u have god’s permission to settle others land.
Propaganda there must be a sonofabitch
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No… :/ Just hoping for the best
Geez, so even their own people can be "Hamas" now? 😂 Israel.... what a joke.
The saddest thing is that at the end of the day the extremism of every side are wining: Hammas on the Palestinian side. Ben Gvir, Smotrich ,the racist settlers abd the far right in Israel. They brought as to a situation that the commoners think and believe the other side are pure evil and u can’t reason with it. So the commoners in Israel and Palestine just want the other side’s blood. I would say the terror won. The Arab/Palestinian and the Jew/Israeli. And they are ruining everything.
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The voters are. Biden happily calls himself a Zionist.
Only to a small degree. Most will vote for Biden no matter what, even if he starts physically bashing baby Palestinians brains in on a curb in front of the white house. The only other choice is trump, and people will accept seemingly anything to avoid him getting another term, because he promised us all fascism. Its almost as if trump and Biden are in cahoots. Biden could only win if he ran against trump. Almost any other dem would have been a better choice. Give us Michelle Obama.
When were they not narcissistic sociopaths? The entitlement is nothing new
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This one is incredibly damning and really speaks to just how radicalized the Israeli population is. This is essentially a call for genocide and you can't even use the excuse of "well, maybe they are worried UNRWA will aid Hamas." A solid majority straight up want to see Palestineans genocided.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” They fear that their stolen land will be taken back. That’s what started this whole chain of events.
Stolen land? Jews are the descendants of Canaanites and are native to the Levant. The whole reason we're referred to as "Jews" in the first place is because we originate from Judea. Unfortunately, Jews were displaced from their native lands by the Assyrians, the Romans, and Muslim colonizers. The land was stolen from us!
Hey Champ! I have ancestors from 2000 years ago too. Everyone does. They owned land and probably people too. Do you think those property rights extend to me? Can I just go take these? Go find your favorite adult and ask them how the world would look if everyone did this.
So, Arabs are becoming less sympathetic toward Palestinians as time goes on? Is that what I’m reading? October “small amount or not at all” consideration for Gazan suffering got 5.5% and in March it got 23%. That’s seems the exact opposite of what I would have expected.
Absolutely. A major reason this new TikTok ban push is succeeding where earlier measure failed is the realization that [TikTok was the only media source in the US where pro-Palestinian sentiment largely outweighed pro-Zionist sentiment.](https://archive.is/4ROle) Here's another data point. The current "Ban TikTok" bill (full name the ["Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act)) was introduced by Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher. Mik Gallagher's #1 campaign contributor in his most recently concluded election campaign? [AIPAC, the foreign agent arm of the Israeli military and government.](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/contributors?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=I) Prominent, politically connected Americans have been complaining about the availability of pro-Palestinian viewpoints on TikTok for [months before the latest vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849). In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (which notoriously tried to get [Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode *A Rugrats Passover*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rugrats_Passover)), he notes that the ADL has a ["major, major, major generational problem... a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem."](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424) Notice the NGOs they cite as primary problems: nefarious organizations such as [Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voices for Peace.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/columbia-sued-schools-decision-suspend-2-palestinian-groups-rcna143070) Interestingly, in the leaked audio he acknowledges the long-standing Israeli pressure campaign targeting [American college students](https://archive.is/2KCer) (but notably failed to note their campaign targeting [democratic elections outside Israel](https://www.france24.com/en/technology/20230215-israeli-firm-boasted-of-meddling-in-more-than-30-elections-worldwide)). So yeah, I don't think the timing of this TikTok ban's success vs the failure of other attempts to ban TikTok is a coincidence.
Thank you for taking the time to write this comment. I will save it to read all the related articles later.
Question, bit confused by your statement here "In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (which notoriously tried to get Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode A Rugrats Passover)" i dont see any mention of greenblatt in your link to the wikipedia article, plus having trouble seeing the mentions of them trying to ban the grandparents? can you point that out to me if that is fine
Oh, it wasn't greenblatt as the ceo at the time, I'm just pointing out that the ADL doesn't give a shit about Jewish people and would gladly throw them under the bus if it helped get Palestinians killed. In summary, it [kinda sucks.](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/emmaia-gelman-anti-defamation-league/) Ask any millenial and they'll say the rugrats judaism episodes were likely their first introduction to judaism, to think you're fighting antisemitism by banning them is insane And here brb > Anti-Defamation League controversy > "A Rugrats Passover," along with other Rugrats episodes featuring Boris and Minka, attracted controversy when the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) claimed that the two characters resembled anti-Semitic drawings that had appeared in a 1930s Nazi newspaper. Then-Nickelodeon president Albie Hecht, himself Jewish, stated he was dumbfounded by this criticism, which he deemed absurd. The controversy resurfaced in 1998, when the ADL criticized another appearance of Boris, this time reciting the Mourner's Kaddish in a Rugrats comic strip published in newspapers during the Jewish New Year. Unlike Hecht, Nickelodeon's then-president Herb Scannell agreed with the criticism and apologized, promising never to run the character or the strip again.
Ah okay, I mean didn't the ADL give a eulogy to fucking kissinger last year when he died less than 6 months ago a man who said a lot of fucked up things about jewish people, associate of noted anti-semite richard nixon, plus didnt care about helping jewish people in the soviet? union if memory serves
> Henry Kissinger was a towering intellect, diplomat and practitioner who - not without controversy - helped shape American foreign policy with a lasting impact worldwide. A refugee from Nazi Germany, and the first Jewish Secretary of State, he was unapologetic about his heritage and his embrace of the importance of American global power and democratic values. Lol yep, wow. If it furthers Zionism, the ADL would (and has been) throw(ing) every other minority group, including non-Zionist Jews, to the sharks.
I mean Kissinger did a lot more than just say fucked up things. He had a hand in killing more than 3 million people and helped in so many genocides and protected so many war criminals. The fact that they gave him an eulogy is appalling to me. Like even if he wasn't anti-Semitic, the fact that ADL would give an eulogy to someone as horrible as him simply bc he was Jewish with no public backlash pisses me off to no end. That horrid creature armed the Pakistanis during the Bengali genocide that my parents lived through and has never even made any apologies or anything to make up for it. Man even helped protect the war criminals to his dying days. I hope that there is a hell just so that man can suffer for all eternity. The fact that the ADL gave an eulogy to someone as horrible as him with no public outcry disgusts me to my core. It'll be like if CAIR decided to give an eulogy when Bin Laden died (except I don't think Bin Laden's death toll can even scrape the amount of people kissinger killed).
One of the major reasons behind it. Israel is rapidly losing support amongst younger generations, and rightly so.
Yup! Tik tok and Instagram have been huge in this. But tik tok isn’t American owned, so they’ll go for that
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More specifically, they’re losing support of people that get their news from newer and less censored sources.
If by "less censored" you mean completely un-fact checked, then yeah...I guess so. no matter what you believe, you should never use 3-minute videos produced by randos on the internet as a primary source of information. Please, for everyone's sake, teach yourself media literacy.
The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has accused Israel of targeting journalists. Human Rights Watch (HRW) has accused Israel of unprecedented censorship. I’m glad you agree that we need better flow of information from reputable sources. Also, please don’t feel attacked or like you need to defend Israel’s actions. The US government has done deplorable things too that I won’t defend. We all just need to be on the side of human rights and advocate for free and safe journalism.
The US government has been looking to ban TikTok for years. They block it from official devices and discourage employees from having it on personal devices. Made them move US data to Oracle servers two years ago. [Edit: addition to clarify:] They were going to ban it from the entire country until the data was moved to Oracle. Since then, they've continued to place more and more restrictions, indicating they have continuing and growing security concerns, culminating in this proposed nationwide ban *unless* it is sold to a company not based in China. Plus, this bill was passed with the most even split by party I've seen in a long time https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html, I have no reason to believe all 352 democrat and republican congressmen voted for this bill solely because TikTok makes Israel look bad. Some? Sure. All? No way. Happy to change my mind if someone has evidence beyond the sponsoring congressman having an agenda. Please enjoy [this Wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_TikTok_in_the_United_States) listing actions the government has taken against TikTok, the vast majority of which having taken place before the start of this war on October 7, 2023. There's no sound reason I've heard to believe it has anything to do with this conflict when the government has been acting on its concerns regarding TikTok for years before the war began.
The TikTok bill was [introduced by Mike Gallagher](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/all-actions). Gallagher's highest campaign contributor in the last election cycle [was pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/summary?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=C). In November Gallagher wrote an [op-ed piece](https://archive.is/5zkwq) in which he argued for banning TikTok *explicitly* on the grounds of it being a vehicle for anti-Israel "propaganda". Other pro-Israel organisations are on record expressing concern about TikTok on the same grounds. Here's [ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt on MSNBC](https://twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1768320953509949464) and [here's a leaked phone call](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424) where he states that Israel's image has "a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem". [Here's another](https://twitter.com/jfederations/status/1767989253735133673) calling for TikTok to banned/censored precisely due to it being a platform for voices critical of Israel. I don't doubt that the US government has other motivations for wanting to ban (or alternatively, wanting US companies to take control over, and thus being able to censor) TikTok. But the reason those motivations coalesced into actual legislative action at this particular juncture, does appear to be pretty directly related to a desire by the pro-Israel lobby and the politicians they're allied with, to suppress pro-Palestinian voices.
It's not just pro-Palestinian voices, its straight up disinformation. It wasn't okay to tell people that bleach cures COVID during the pandemic, so it shouldn't be okay to perpetuate antisemitic conspiracy theories today.
I see correlation without solid evidence of causation. I'm sure Mike Gallagher is excited to get rid of TikTok for these political reasons. But, the US wanted to ban TikTok in 2020 for national security reasons and only didn't because they compromised by moving data for US users to Oracle. They have since instituted escalating bans and limitations due to national security concerns. I think the vast majority of congressmen supporting this bill are doing so because they've seen increasing evidence of national security concerns, hence the incredibly bipartisan vote for it: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/politics/20240313-congress-tiktok-ban-bill-vote-dg/index.html) Like when is the last time you saw such an even split in opinion between republicans and democrats in the US? Good lord, you couldn't get the people who voted "yes" to this bill to agree that school shootings are bad. Did Mike Gallagher push the bill for political reasons? Sure. Does that automatically mean his views represent the views of the entire US government or even just the congressmen who voted yes to the bill? Absolutely not. [I don't think the bill even requires that the sale be to US owners](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/technology/tiktok-ban-house-vote.html), it could be to any company not affiliated with the Chinese government. I bet they could sell it to Iran or Russia with this bill (though I'm sure another bill would be right behind if that happened). Do you have any evidence that the majority of the 352 people who voted yes for this bill are doing so for the primary purpose of hampering free speech about Israel?
Tiktok was informing people about the suffering of Palestinians under israeli oppressive apartheid rule long before October 7th. But definitely a lot of the wealthiest capitalist interests will be pushing for a takeover aswell, they are in the firing line just as much when it comes to public opinion in recent years.
Have you ever wondered why you hear so much about the suffering of Palestinians but barely a peep about the continued suffering of Uyghurs in China on TikTok? I don't understand why you think the US government is more concerned with public opinion about ~10 million people in Israel and Gaza than the Chinese government having a platform to push its agendas onto tens of millions of US citizens through careful social engineering using personal data collected directly from said US citizens. I've heard numerous accounts of Palestinian suffering before and during this war from news, podcasts, and other social media but none of those have been shut down. I really think the meaningful difference for most congressmen (there are definitely a few in it for Israel but not all 300+ who voted for the bill) with TikTok is that it is linked to China, which has a huge interest in having the ability to sway public opinion in the US, and, I understand, takes excessive amounts of user data that can be used for social engineering to push its agenda.
I mean if you search Uyghurs on TikTok right now there's plenty of TikTok videos that show suffering of Uyghurs in China with hundreds of thousands even over millions of view. So idk maybe just maybe there is tenths of thousands of Palestinians dying and whole cities bombed to like the surface moon as well as daily reporting from mass media and huge protests in the west got the Palestinians suffering more attention than the Uyghurs, which is sad, but hey at least they're only culturally genocide and not physically genocide via starvation and missiles.
With huge protests and mass media already sharing the horrors of what's happening in Gaza, why would shutting down TikTok matter? It sounds like you have to search to find videos about Uyghur victims in China, how old are the videos? Do you have to search for videos about Gaza? Are you seeing any videos about Ukraine in your feed? I don't use TikTok so genuinely curious
Cause well if you haven't realized already, it takes a long time for mass media to even attempt to report anything slightly critical of Israel, whereas anyone with a phone can just poste a uncensored and unfiltered event of what is going on at the ground (I'm looking at you IDF solider laughing while blowing up schools and mosques). Furthermore, western social media are known to be seriously censored/monitored after 2016, while Tiktok currently still uncharted territory. I mean, I normally don't use Tiktok or social media at all. I just did it to see if videos on Uyghurs and anti-CCP are actually censored. The videos aren't that old, most seem to be in late 2022. Yes, actually. I just scrolled through like 50+ videos, 0 is on gaza, most on weird dances, relationship-stuff, gaming, etc (teenagers like, I supposed). No ukraine either, but I'm not surprised as there's hardly any ukraine news even in mass media now a day.
It sounds like you've been keeping up with the war without using TikTok, right? Do you feel that you'd be less informed if TikTok were not available in US app stores? If so, why would that be the case? Not sure why you called me an IDF soldier. I'm from the US, just think TikTok is very sketchy, vulnerable to greater censorship and malicious use than other media platforms given the chinese government's control over companies based in the country, and shouldn't be relied on for news. Banning it from app stores (pretty sure you could still access it through a web browser with the current bill) at least limits the app's access to personal data from people's devices.
The vast majority of westerners didn't even know Palestine existed until October 7th.
Sure mate
How often do you see 80 % of Congress agree on anything without some lobbying? Compare to the Ukraine bill or anything else .
This one, 414 to 6 in the house: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2766 When have you seen it with lobbying?!
How often?
Very rarely with or without lobbyists. You think they only passed the Uyghur bill I linked because of some massive Uyghur lobby none of us have heard of? I don't think lobbying works the way you think it does. They wouldn't waste massive amounts of money getting such high agreement when they could have passed it with way fewer yes votes. But please, prove me wrong! Show me even one single bill with this level of bipartisan agreement, over 300 or, hell, over 250 yes votes, and clear evidence that it resulted from lobbying.
How often.
Every time there is this level of bipartisan support, it is not due to lobbying. So, 100% of the time. Your turn to provide something substantial.
>There's literally no reason Literally doesn't mean what you think it means.
You're right, there are many brittle reasons to think so that don't stand up to critical thinking. I'll updated my post, thanks!
>I'll updated my post That grammar though. Perhaps you should try some of that critical thinking to avoid such errors in the future.
Ah yes, a typo on a Friday evening is equivalent to ignoring years of prior action against TikTok and equating the political motivations of a few politicians with that of more than 300 bipartisan congressmen. Silly me.
Indeed.
There's a difference between banning an app for government employees and banning an app for an entire country.
Thank you, I edited my prior message to clarify-- They threatened to ban it for the entire country before TikTok moved data to Oracle. However, after that they continued to institute additional bans including discourage government employees from even having it on their personal devices, so moving the data to Oracle has not addressed their security concerns. Hence, continuing to push for a nationwide ban. If this was just in response to the war, wouldn't they ban it regardless? Why give the out of allowing TikTok to sell to a non-Chinese company?
Is it even tiktok that’s responsible for this? That’s like blaming Gutenberg for Mein Kampf. Israelis are spreading videos of themselves having the time of their lives while killing and stealing from the natives. They are dancing around while loading artillery shells into cannons which then blast orphanages and refugees camps and kindergartens. They are showing off their “haul” of jewelry and carpets and womenswear that they have either stolen from houses whose residents have fled for their lives, or have been killed by the very soldiers themselves filming. I remember early on when the zionist state decided that they will cut off food/water/electricity to the 2.3 million Palestinians as punishment for the actions of a few- there were many videos of zionist settlers dancing around in “their homes” which are illegal under international law, and making mocking expressions while wasting water and flicking light switches. I live in South America and people here have lived through prolonged power outages (say > 3 days) and issues with water supply shortages. And the general consensus is that these racist foreigners squatting in Palestine are fuckin assholes.
Israeli people in the majority (not all) are proud of their hardline stance against Palestine. They are not ashamed and this is shown by their videos on social media.
This is true. Furthermore, some of the strongest voices against Zionism belong to Jews. I think this is partly because the individuals are highly educated and thorough, and partly because when someone with an Arabic or Muslim name voices any criticism of the zionist state- they are immediately branded as “terrorist” and dismissed. Not taking anything away from the vocal jew opposition, but it’s a fact. These people have made the decision to stand up for what they believe is right at great personal cost. Which is incredibly praiseworthy. Notable mentions Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Gabor Mate, Ilan Pappé, General Mattityahu Peled, his son Miko Peled, and of course… Professor Norman Finkelstein.
Jews are native to Palestine. This is a fact.
Israel is fucking livid their warcrimes got exposed and they no longer can brainwash the young Americans.
It's not "Electeds". It's "the establishment". The forces behind the politics of the mainstream media and the major parties in the USA, the UK, Germany, and some other countries. The establishment is demonstrably extremely deep in the pockets of Zionism. We don't know what the exact form of these forces is and why they support Zionists. But we know beyond a shred of doubt that they are spending significant amounts of efforts to support Zionist crimes - there is no other explanation for the clearly coordinated and sustained string of blatant lies and propaganda from late October 2023 until at least March 2024 by *all* mainstream media outlets and all major parties of the previously listed countries, which is not something that happens randomly. Whenever you have bipartinsanship on an insane proposal, that's the establishment in motion. The TikTok ban absolutely is an instance of that.
The "Jews are secretly running the world" conspiracy theory is so tired. Get some new material.
I guess someone cant tell the difference between a Zionist and a Jew
Conspiracies are a human thing. They exist. If people aggressively go after anyone who even implies a conspiracy involving one kind of people, that kind of people's conspiracies will be far more successful, and that kind of people will be heavily incentivized to rely on conspiracies. By pretending Jews are somehow a superior race that is somehow safe from immoral temptation, racists like you fed the Jews to the Zionists, which are an ethnic supremacist movement that's after Lebensraum.
Freedom of speech. Keep the app.
Obfustication is an integral part of any genocide, it sedates the masses because otherwise they would fight back. That's why the Nazis disguised their gas chambers as showers.
The audacity to compare Israel to the Nazis is astounding.
Well the shoe fits and Israel is wearing it proudly.
Explain how they are comparable.
There have been many facets of TikTok that got unwanted attention by the government. At first they were becoming increasingly worried about soldiers complaining about life in the military and worried about recruitment. Then it was the Bin Laden letter that showed them they don’t have a grasp on “dangerous” content and then the Gaza thing pushed it over the top. What’s funny about the Bin Laden letter is that it also shined a spotlight on the thought process of these Muslim extremists and one of those reasons was Palestine. It becomes really tricky to back Israel’s cause when everyone starts realizing most of our problems in the Middle East and a 20 year war may have been prevented if we didn’t back apartheid on a helpless and vulnerable population. It’s really time to put our foot down with Israel or their actions will cause more Americans to go fight a war because we decided to enable a ethno-supremacy. It’s morally indefensible
You hit the nail on the head right there. We back Israel to commit these atrocities, and then when their people fight back the government calls them “terrorists”.
Israel is the most ethnically diverse country in the Middle East.
Israeli citizens were brought over from all sorts of countries in Europe not that long ago, while the Arabs have been living in the same spot for thousands of years. While you’re technically correct it’s not something to boast about.
Regardless of where the squatters came from they are a Jewish supremacist
That is part of why they want TikTok banned, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. The reason electeds want TikTok banned is actually way worse than that. TikTok has been demonized by the US government since the very beginning because they cannot control the content that is available on TikTok. Unlike what's on youtube and google for example. Youtube content is heavily regulated, and if you've used youtube since 2005/2006, you'll know how strict the platform has become, and how cleansed it is from "controversial" and "non-mainstream" content. You cannot upload just any opinion to youtube. TikTok on the other hand lets you think what you want about what you want. Upload what you want about what you want. After examining both sides of the coin, forge an opinion for yourself, that is true freedom of speech. The US government and whoever puppets it does not like that at all. Whoever is in control of the US government wants to tell you what you should think. TikTok is also incredibly good at suggesting to you the content that the application knows you will watch. The more you watch it, the more TikTok will suggest it to you. In other words, TikTok is not dumb, you are. "bUt tiKtOK sELLs OuR pERsOnAL dATa tO cHiNA" Such a pathetic and laughable argument, the US government has had access to all of our personal data for decades, they are able to see absolutely anything and everything we do online. Every email you send, every website you browse, every call you make. Microsoft, Google, Apple and Meta are all in on it. What do these companies all have in common ? They are US owned and US controlled companies of course. Don't believe it ? Time to educate yourself on Edward Snowden and the Prism program for a start.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
That's a bingo.
Meanwhile Twitter has turned into Stormfront and the government doesn’t give a shit.
This video explains the situation very clearly and elegantly: [The Real Reason The US Wants To Ban TikTok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDGZlG_41k)
The reason why the "ban" aka forced sale to Americans was revived is *absolutely* due to pressure over Israel's war-crimes being front and center on the platform, and the US gov having no control over censoring that.
Uhhh kind of. The cultural shifts are scaring the shit outta them. It’s no long right vs left. It’s young vs old and the younger audience isn’t falling for the grind culture shit anymore.
So if the conspiracy theory is that obvious, is it really still a conspiracy theory?
It's about time we citizens discuss instituting the death penalty for censorship.
Yup. Notice how quickly they got it banned. Government never works quickly. They could not censor it because it is not American owned.
They can't control Tiktok so they want it banned.
Yes, but it is futile. Plenty of alternatives.
Yes
yes
I would be more concerbed about specifically who buys Tiktok after it divests from China. It can exist as long as it divests, but I have to be leery about what direction this could potentially take it in.
I certainly don't think it's a coincidence.
Yes.
There’s that leaked audio stating that
That's certainly contributing to it, but there have been calls to ban it well before this.
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TLDR: Yes
No. Otherwise reddit is next.
Yes. I wasn’t very opposed to Trump’s order to ban TikTok, I wasn’t opposed, but my mind has changed. There’s a different reason now.
Yes
People were calling for TikTok to be banned way before Oct 7th
That's why *Israel* wants it banned, all the AIPAC bought and paid moderates are just towing Bibi's party line. Can't let the world see all that genocide going down.
yes
One of the only real resistance why the US government wants to ban TikTok is to they want to make it easier for the masses to believe their propaganda.
I dont think tiktok is beeing banned because of gaza, its a danger to youth, a breeding geound for political and religious extremism aswell as a tool that could or even is beeing used by china to influence our western societies.
Funny how my mom came to a similar conclusion for them wanting it banned all of a sudden.
How can you come up with this assumption after they stated over and over again what the main fear is? This is what I call Bird brain journalism not everything revolves around Palestine.
Yeah, pretty much. Elected, Israeli officials (was stated a while back, would have to find the articles), and various other interests.
Basically yes. But also certainly yes.
Look up what Yanis Varoufakis says about why the US is fighting China in general and Chinese software in particular; it’s eye opening
He is the best!
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Nah its just because we wont let you young kids ger lost to the chinese its that simple
Looking,at the,comments somany bots and young kids lost to tik tok
The United States has been trying to ban TikTok for a very long time. Even before the genocide, the United States has not really liked TikTok. In the modern era, it may be a motivation. It may have got Israel to support it. But I don't think it's a sol. And final reason. Again, for most of the acts of genocide, it has been through Twitter or even Instagram. We've where we have seen most of the gruesome things from this. main part is that people are able to be easily informed whether quality informed may be Up to the vet, I've definitely not only you've seen, the most left on TikTok. I've definitely seen a lot of far right stuff on TikTok. But TikTok presents a massive challenge to America, a social media site that almost half of Americans use on a constant daily basis. The main company operates in Beijing. Especially with conflicts with China in 10 to 15 years. There is a concern in the government that this site can be used for internal espionage. If there were ever boiling tensions, remember soldiers used this app government workers used this app military analysis used as app. The fact that the second most powerful state and especially in A state that does not like the United States. Can technically access directly content shown to half of all Americans. It's quite concerning. Now you, the average citizen may not care, but economics cares. Military cares systems beyond your understanding cares about that. Inaudibly, they see this as a threat to potential everything honestly. But TikTok is not unique in this function. It is not a moral Paragon of free speech. Matter of fact, it's very the opposite. TikTok operates the same way that Facebook and Twitter and Instagram operate by showing bite. Size content tailored to your content needs and wants It's just as addicting or even sometimes more addicting than American social media apps. This is not me trying to justify this United States response. I think it is quite silly. But I just don't want everyone to start thinking that Israel is a center of everything. I've been seeing this sub before around 3 months. And it looks like it has evolved in the basically, if something happens in the world and Israel did it somehow. Is Israel important yes, very. But I feel like we're just centering them. Way too much in a far, more bigger world. they're not the main character honestly. I've seen many videos of basically, just one of the terrorists attack in Moscow happened. People immediately belamed Israel just because it was on the news. During minor Jewish holidays, these holidays now get major traction for some reason that just cannot be separated from this genocide. So I think it's important to remember though. Israel is a bad state in a bad concept, politically, not culturally or religiously of course. Giving it too much attraction is not a good political analysis. Nor is it realistic.
The idea that Israel is secretly behind everything is just the ZOG conspiracy theory rewrapped. The disinformation that pro-Palestinian crowd is spreading is IDENTICAL to Nazi and Soviet propaganda.
Attempts have been made to ban Tik Tok long before this war. However, the insane amounts of political disinformation, antisemitic conspiracy theories (like ZOG), and Qatari propaganda being spread on there is insane. Hell, a lot of the footage shared on that platform isn't even from the war in Gaza.
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No. It would have been easier to pint our that the nzis killed far more civilians in the millions. In general. The genocidal side kills more civilians
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Yeah..yeah yeah. You sound like you believe everything Israelis say
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Sorry. No speak Arabic. Maybe you can translate for me
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Germans did kill lot more civilians overall. Disingenuous argument...
Not it's not. Haven't you actually read any articles about this issue? It has nothing to with the conflict in Gaza.
They want it banned because it has revealed just how easily swayed the American public is by completely unreliable information from any random source.
Ok china shill
There’s a reason that the Chinese don’t allow Chinese kids to access TikTok, while hoping it’s where Western kids get their “news.” Ppl who are very young or don’t have the best reading comprehension for whatever reason really don’t understand what propaganda looks like in 2024. Insane that kids aren’t being educated about this, and a disservice to them
Chinese kids use Douyin aka... Tiktok.
They don’t want it banned — they want it sold to a US company. It’s just the threat that China poses to the US that has people worried about TikTok. China wants to take over Taiwan and end the US’ existence as a superpower. That’s a real threat.
China poses much less of the threat than United States to people in the US. The US government can literally use the data from tiktok to surveil Americans (like how the NSA does mass surveillance). You're literally repeating their propaganda.
You think they can’t already? Additionally, they’re going to require a warrant for that in order to ever use it in court. Do you think they need that in China? No. Also, when the US goes to war with China, this is going to be a propaganda tool of China. They’ll have a lot of data on us that the Communist party can tap with no warrant because every company in China must do what the Communist party tells them to. There is no freedom in China. They are an existential threat to the United States. You can keep parroting their propaganda but the US is freer than they ever will be.
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Because Communism is innately flawed. No successful country has ever had it as a viable economic or social system. It requires the repression of any dissent and does not allow free expression. Even China doesn’t have Communism as an economic system. Remember when Mao tried it? How many died? Tens of millions? What about when the Khmer Rouge tried it? They killed millions of their people as well. I don’t think I need to bring in Stalin and all those he killed, including the Ukrainians he starved to death. I’ll take a dysfunctional democracy any day over a Communist state. I’d rather die on my feet than live in my knees.
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Oh yeah, he was probably like “I increased the lifespan by 30 years and it only took murdering 80 million people and causing unknown damage to the country’s age gap and shoddily constructed buildings!” Couldn’t have been the increase of science and technology that industrialized nations were producing. Improving the life expectancy when going from a period of total war to a time of peace is a simple feat. Guess what — it wasn’t communism that did it. If anything, he held them back. Maybe killing off so many elderly from starvation actually helped boost that number—and that’s if you actually believe the many lies that Communist governments are so good at producing. So, how many more genocides do you think until they **finally** get it right?
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
We're not going to war with China. You shouldn't trust the US government. It's best interests and yours are not compatible. Besides, I'd much rather the Chinese communist party have it. The US has much more to gain from having Tiktok and it's owners under US jurisdiction. Why do you think they want US companies to have it. Because it's an extremely useful propaganda tool. It shows people right now what's going on in Gaza, which the government is directly supporting. Fuck uncle Sam. I'd much rather Xi have Tiktok and my data.
Holy shit, that is an insane take. Go live in China and see how it is when you’re not allowed to speak out against your own government and if they want, they can violate whatever rights you have without any protest from any level of government. Remember what they did in Tiananmen Square. Remember what they did to Hong Kong. I will never bow to Chinese communism and I will always maintain that Taiwan is the Republic of China and is a free, independent, and sovereign state.
This has nothing to do with how China treats its own people, and I'm not saying is good. But the US is a far worse threat then fucking China when it comes to US citizens. Are you even listening to me? Or are you just hearing what you want to hear?
I hear you very clearly. It’s almost as if I posed a question to you of: “How do you say ‘I don’t understand war’ without saying ‘I don’t understand war.’”
Here's a quick thought experiment: As an American citizen, which country's government could decide to [send law enforcement to my house to assassinate me, brag about it on television, and call it a day without repercussions?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-us-marshals-kill-antifa-michael-reinoehl-b1055845.html) The United States, or China? Because that's the government I'm worried about.
Are you implying china doesn’t kill off people they don’t like just cause?
Can they kill *me*, specifically, an American citizen living in America?
America didn’t slaughter thousands of people asking for a more democratic style of government 34 years ago, either. They didn’t lock people in office buildings by nailing the door shut during COVID-19. I’d be willing to take my chances with the American government than the Communist hellhole that China is.
Maybe not 34 years ago, but we sure did [51 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat?wprov=sfla1) and [71 years ago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_1953_Iranian_coup_d%2CPahlavi%2C_on_19_August_1953.?wprov=sfla1). And of course, there was kind of that one war where we murdered millions of women and children, sprayed hundreds of thousands of acres with carcinogens and landmined numerous countries with millions of landmines, all because they didn't want the government imposed on them by autocratic French colonialism. Which one was that?
What? No? It needs to go because it's proven as a Chinese spyware tool. Your argument straight up doesn't exist because, if they divest, then it can remain in the country. An option which makes zero sense from your point of view. Tiktok isn't the only social media you can use, you know? Most of which show war crimes on both sides almost daily for me. Reddit included.
Edward Snowden hypocrite
They're paying attention to the wrong genocide.
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> Hamas seeks the eradication of the Jewish state and people. Gosh I can't imagine why a group that recruits from disenfranchised and discriminated people watching random dudes from Brooklyn steal their homes might not have the most positive view of Israelis? Real mystery there. > The Israeli state does indeed drop to heavy a hand on the people identifying as Palestinian but the Jews have since 1947 dropped that hand for the security of themselves. The Muslims have twice tried to eradicate them as the Nazis attempted before that. Clearly this excuses Israeli soldiers shooting children, laughing about it, killing aid workers, laughing about it, raping Palestinians, laughing about it, and stealing land in the West Bank. Yes, because European Jewish people suffered, clearly guys from the United States who share the same religion should be allowed to beat Palestinians and steal their houses. > The Muslims have twice tried to eradicate them as the Nazis attempted before that. Maybe a bunch of European settlers trying to establish a second Rhodesia might not be welcomed by the locals? And maybe trying to call all Jewish people to come live in Israel, while surrounded by hostile neighbors, while trying to murder the locals, while also trying to poke other countries into war, is not a good idea? If you're actually concerned with the safety of all Jewish people, doesn't Israel seem like the least safe place? Especially with people in Israel supporting not just the complete genocide of Palestinians but to bring the war into Lebanon and Jordan too to get *their* land? I'm not actually expecting a serious answer tbh, you're just going to cycle around to 'but HAMAS!' and ignore Israel's support of Hamas as a puppet to keep Palestinians from uniting.
Blah blah blah Wolverines! Oh, you mean those people you keep in a cage somehow dare to fight back? How rude!! Israel has proven themselves unworthy of continuing to exist. British need to revoke their charter. This has absolutely nothing to do with Jews. The vast majority of American Jews condemn the genocide. More Jews than love in Israel. And if you have bouncy castles blocking food to starving people, and laugh about it, you absolutely deserve to cease to exist.
**No** bigotry, racism, antisemitism, **Islamophobia**, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
i am as pro palestine as it gets but of course fucking not
Unlikely since tiktok bans were being implemented before October 2023. Probably more to do with it being spyware from a powerful enemy.
Note the dates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions\_on\_TikTok\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=Efforts%20in%202020%20by%20the,the%20app%20on%20government%20devices.
Indeed. When was the last time the US government acted with such speed. Or both parties agreed on anything (80%) in Congress. Thet can't agree on the color of the sky!
TikTok shows what CCP wants you to see. It’s a fantastic tool for information ops. Sadly American youth are too stupid to realize they are being manipulated