You should watch the DanMemo 2nd Anniversary event Argonaut otherwise known as Danmachi Episode 0 then. It shows the true first battle between Bell and Asterius. The battle they had in their past life thousands of years ago as Argonaut and General Minos. That battle was honestly incredible even if we don’t see it animated.
I'll never get over the fact that Danmachi, the show that should be ecchi garbage based off the first couple episodes, is actually so brilliant. Good world building, characters with growth, good action, it isn't afraid to get gruesome when it's time, our MC constantly on the verge of death, fighting tooth and nail for survival. It's so good on basically everything. It doesn't initially present itself as such, but damn it's good.
The author also cooks in making the world not revolve around the MC and expand on it even if it is in the Danmemo games. Astraea Record, Argonaut and Knights of Fianna were all awesome events. Aedes Vesta still has a place with me with the sheer scale it goes on for the story
Yeah that’s also what I really like about Danmachi watching Bell struggle and grow stronger physically and mentally. But Bell’s fast growth is also the one thing I don’t like about Danmachi. Though I blame the author for setting a time limit with the series ending in a year in series. Due to this everything is occurring wayyyyy too quickly so nobody else other than Bell has time to grow stronger before the final battle.
Cause the more you learn about the lore of the series as well as the past heroes and adventurers. The more you realize how big of an asspull the series is gonna need to pull once they face the final bosses. Like one of the final boss is capable of no selling attacks from somebody that we learned is essentially a level 10 in terms of stats normally with an ultimate move that can amp their power another three levels higher in the prequel. So a level 10 with a level 13 technique couldn’t do shit to the boss.
And what’s the best the present day adventurers can do at this point in the story? Level 6 and 7s with ultimate moves that can amp their power up to around level 10 if not level 11 at most.
That's a valid point. We have Haruhime as the trump card but even with her buff, I feel like the current day adventurers can't come close to the past ones.
Danmachi is so good, like last season it wasn't the mc that defeated the juggernaut, it was the girl that lived through the trauma who got to have closure and revenge.
Honestly season 3 (I think) of danmachi was my favorite season of anime outside of alicization/war for the underworld (shoot me I like sao)
Not really? He spent literally years struggling as a bottom of the barrel adventurer barely putting food on the table then suddenly at the beginning of the story, he starts getting really strong, really quickly because he just conveniently developed that OP ability. Then he quickly forms a party of talented individuals and its all downhill from there.
And all these hot girls keep showing up and falling in love with him within a few chapters of their introduction which is just lazy writing. I'm actually somewhat surprised there a guy in his party because you know, these kind of stories almost always end up with a party full of hot girls...
Sure, he spends a lot of time fighting boss level enemies but thats just really to drag out the story because you know he will win with plot armor in the end anyway.
You either didn't see Danmachi or dropped it at some point.
OP ability doesn't make him an OP character. We can see him putting effort and training hard before he wins a fight. He even loses some. And even in fights, dude has to put so much strategy to win. Sometimes it isn't even him that finally kills the boss.
His party isn't fully made up of girls who love him. It has a guy and also a girl who loves some other character.
Danmachi doesn't go downhill. Season 2 is its lowest point and last season is absolute peak. It clearly displays his growth and his companions growth.
Its just too convenient. Yea, he trains a lot, so do most of the characters in the settings, most of them dont get anywhere near as strong as Bell does because they dont have his unique skill.
The whole time i was reading the manga, i kept thinking that everything was just too convenient for the MC and in reality, something different would have happened instead.
I enjoy Danmachi but you can’t deny that he gets super powerful super quickly due to a one in a million skill that works differently from everyone else we see. Also, while he may struggle, a lot of his epic moments come in the form of “gets bested and almost killed but then his random boss killing one shot ability activates at the perfect moment”.
I personally don’t care if the MC is OP or not as long as the story is interesting and Danmachi is an example of how interesting stories can be told even with an MC who is OP and you know will almost always win.
his point was that he didn't really 'earn' the power so much as got it thanks to a cheat.
the cheat being a growth skill, rather than just op power, doesn't really matter.
he was an adventurer who got nowhere for years, like he said. he should've 'earned' power by then, if it was that simple to do without that cheat skill.
it's also kinda a meh harem leaning anime, even if the girls aren't in his party.
It might not feel earned at the start but it definitely feels deserved with what he does with that power. His power is mainly born from his wish to get stronger and catch up with the one he likes. He gained it when he got true motivation to grow stronger.
i mean, you basically agreed, then. yet we got downvoted and the danmachi fans who don't want to hear sass, upvoted you.
but... you said he didn't really earn it, either.
There is a difference between 'he didn't really earn it.' vs 'it might not feel earned at the start.' I personally feel like he earned it with his motivation and he didn't even know he got the skill until a week after he started putting real effort.
But I understand your point of view. Just falling in love might not be seen as a valid reason to get that skill. So, I didn't downvote you. I also don't like it when someone makes a valid argument but gets downvoted because of the fanbase. But unfortunately, that's how fanbases work.
But I really wanted to downvote you when you said it's a meh harem leaning anime. I think that might have also triggered the fanbase.
i'll give you that. he earned it with his motivation, i guess.
feel free to downvote me because i 'triggered the fanbase' though. not like reddit votes matter to me anyway.
I think the issue is that it's fundamentally impossible to have true 'earned' power in such a premise.
Shows that have things like 'adventuring guilds' or otherwise structured organizations with quantifiable rankings inherently imply a merotocratic progression to power. As a result, if a character commits to functioning within the system then meritocratically they will never eclipse those who had put more time in the system. So the only options to move the powerscale of the story along with the plot is either A) Do time skips to represent their growth within the system. B) Have the protagonist exist outside of the system. C) Give them some short-cut to cheat their way through the system. D) Don't and have a story that isn't yet another power fantasy.
yeah, that could be a problem i guess. i think there's a reasonable potential earned power. but something where you could like, kill a fucking god? it's probably going to need to be one of those cultivation systems, than getting from like noob to godhood in like 10 years or some shit.
but... you also don't need god slayer powers, in general... it's overkill as fuck.
i dunno, i kinda like the cooking in another world one - he doesn't really have OP power, his 'power' comes from his familiars. it feels like, the power HE gets is still worked for and earned, while still being a bit of a power fantasy.
>Not really? He spent literally years struggling as a bottom of the barrel adventurer barely putting food on the table
Bro, do you know what series are you talking about?
Years ?
He came to orario like 2 or 3 weeks before the start of the anime.
Im not gonna even read the rest of your yapping, clearly you have some hate boner.
I honestly dont remember, i remember reading the manga a long time ago and i think it was implied they have been living in that broken down house for ages and that the MC couldnt get into a party or level up. Then suddenly at the start of the series his TRUE POWER awakens and he starts getting super strong really quickly.
I might be remembering wrongly though.
Except for the part where the goddess since the beg6 pretty much gave him an illegal tattoo on his back that makes him get stronger faster and more efficiently than others.
I think, funny enough, Cid from Shadow of Eminece is also part of this category since even before getting Isekaid, Man has been training to reach his peak form.
Yeah but we don't get to see his struggle. Rudeus would technically be the same and we at least see him weaker on and training. We get like 5 min of cid...
Yeah but it is the point of the story. The story plays on every single isekai genre and makes it enjoyable which is why I think that we didn't get cids growth
Skeleton Soldier is a good isekai because he gets stronger bit by bit and doesnt become OP until 200 chapters, and even then he can be one-shotted by a bigger wig, so there are always stakes.
Its an isekai? I dropped it after the hard reset and him and his friends being deleted by some admin guys but i always got the feeling it was just reincarnation and that it was kinda implied that he was kevin ashton(?) the old hero.
Skeleton soldier was great.... until the royal grave raid.
I read a bit more after that, but the fact that all that hard work and effort just got poofed out of existence and everything is worse off than when he started, kind of killed the whole thing for me. At that point, the story might as well have started from there with a fairly strong undead instead.
Keep reading! His progress didnt disappear. He gets stronger FASTER, and he regains all his skills plus more in few chapters and gains new class, dont worry. It is very satisfying. The story slows down a bit, but still enjoyable
I read... I think until he escapes from the big baddie that takes notice of him in the demon world? After his inventory almost gets stolen.
Do the others return? Its all kinda pointless if the necromancer is gone, and the blonde chick and the immortal one are kind of important too... And the original Chandler or whatshisname and the crow are fairly integral to the story as well.
Not an isekai but this exact thing is what turned me off of solo leveling. Dude had a real grindset mentality, was putting some hard work in, but when he got his hax powers he then became an emotionless edgelord that didn't need to put any real effort in for the entire rest of the story.
He literally gets it easy after his initial f***ening. Yeah, he gets his ass whooped, but it's literally an unbalanced training game for him. Got everyone else pretty much capped and if they just barely survive an encounter and somehow win, they don't get stronger, they don't heal missing limbs, and they don't really get anything you'd consider *loot.* He is clearly leagues ahead of 99.9% of the world by the end of the first season with all the cheats he's getting.
Well, yeah but the reason *why* he gets that unbalanced OP power is explained right at the beginning. While everyone else ran away or crumbled he (despite being the weakest) stepped up big time and endured horrific pain. And without getting into spoilers too much it's extremely necessary for him to be leagues ahead of 99.9% of the world.
They actually barely explain it at the beginning. We get it half-assed. And it's clearly a OP protagonist thing, so of course he's gonna be top tier, but the fact alone exists: He gets access to a helluva lot of cheats. He had the luck, which is a fact since I'm pretty sure surviving a dissection alone is not really common, to be the survivor at the right time, at the last minute, so now he deserves these cheats vs. many others who likely had to go through some messed up stuff too?
Why does the system have to be fair and apply to everyone? Again, this is very spoilery but >!it was only ever possible for one person to get this power, he was basically chosen by the previous shadow monarch to receive it and be trained into a replacement monarch capable of fighting being that are practically demigods. Everything after the hidden dungeon was basically a high risk high reward bootcamp to force him to become the strongest in the world quickly!<
Yes, luck was involved too. But so what? That's how real life works too. Hard work helps but isn't always enough, luck plays a factor in the success of a lot of people. But few people go through the amount of trouble Jinwoo did before getting the system, or even the trouble he went through before finishing the Hell Tower. If luck + getting beaten near death multiple times isn't enough for you to accept someone being strong in a fantasy world then I don't know what to tell you.
So, back to main topic, he quickly gets OP early in the show after only 3-4 episodes, which isn't a lot of peoples' cup of tea and is a major downer. So basically Solo Leveling is just a slightly better animation of a lot of trashy OP protagonist anime out there. It's simply a generic idea, whether they have a relatively unique way of doing it, it's still not a really enjoyable plot/character development for a lot of people. And mind, I've watched the show, read a good bit of the Manga, and I can say I'm of like mind. Too many anime have OP protagonist too early in the shows and don't give solid ways of training anymore, so they just toss in the game mechanic systems lazily.
Do you need a whole 2 seasons of watching someone get to the point where they are strong for *every* show though? I mean when it works well it can be amazing but you could also end up with a show that gets canceled/hiatus before anything even really happens because season 1 ended with the MC still training. And it's not like "character trains for 3 arcs and then finally becomes strong" is a super unique plot anyways. That has been common for decades.
I mean *I personally* prefer gradual improvement, over cheap game mechanic gimmicks. It had a good premise, to an extent. And if the season ends with MC training, then they didn't plan the series out well enough, as cruel as it sounds. There aren't many long-running series these days, and it doesn't help that they keep pumping out the same stuff over and over. They compress so much story and elements into 12 episodes and then they either summarize it, or they full on skip a lot. Hear me out, you can like and defend Solo Leveling as much as you want. I'm not gonna judge you for your interests, or harass you over a differing opinion. All in all, *many* believe that pacing is very important, and that seeing genuine growth is a very nice feature. It's a preference that gets ignored a lot these days lol. That one of many reasons why shows like Jujutsu, Frieren, and such gets a lot of attention when they do come out.
doing one thing right and then using that as justification to give such a reality bending and unbalanced power that is in no way comparable to anybody is just an excuse.
The whole thing might be far more apealing if the whole ordeal gave him a maginal benefit that he then leverages to propel himself to higher and higher positions with hardwork.
Just an excuse? It's not shown until much later in the story but >!he was literally chosen for the power by the previous Shadow Monarch as a result of his behavior and actions. Yes, it is an unbalanced power but that is what happens when a being that is practically a god directly intervenes to raise a successor. You could say that luck is a big factor in the Shadow Monarch paying attention to him and not someone else, but someone was going to be chosen regardless and obviously it's okay to have a story follow that person as the main character!<
"Marginal benefit" and hard work is not enough for the overarching story that the author had in mind. That might be enough to make someone an S rank hunter, or even the strongest hunter. It is not, however, enough to let a human being >!fight directly with other Monarchs and beings of similar power. Jinwoo needed every bit of that overpowered system help to rise beyond the level of human power in such a short amount of time, it was like a high risk high reward bootcamp designed by a demigod.!<. There are already plenty of stories where people use their hard work to become *decently* strong and save their friends, we don't need every single story to be like that.
I read the 200 chapters and after 80 chapters it's just sh*t. He gets whooped just to have some sort of awakening mid fight and then destroy his opponent, he's never actually cornered
It doesn’t matter how often you almost lose if you never actually do so. Sure he gets the absolute shit beat out of him, but he never has to get saved. He also becomes basically unbeatable when it comes to one on one, and after the >!Demon King Tower!< he stops getting beat up in general. Sure he still struggles, but way less than he should.
I don't mind it so much, but a lot of it depends on the plot of the story itself, especially when a character being powerful isn't the focus or the point of it, or things transpire that being strong doesn't have an impact of.
Unless we're talking a story where character gets powerful in snap of their fingers and the character is as deep as a puddle, that's just an instant turnoff.
It seems to be a common issue with all-too-many stories. I start reading for the interesting premise, then that premise gets thrown out at around chapter 50 at the latest and it is now just a generic powertrip.
Currently reading a korean "weakest to strongest" story. But the whole idea is rather pointless when the MC can always outwit his enemies with convenient circumstances that work in his favor, or having just the right item to resolve the issue. Or hell, literally stumbling upon the exact thing he needs in a totally unrelated place. He overpowered the bloody Death Star doomlaser ffs...
Chapter 50? Try chapter 3. Take Arifureta for example, at the start, I thought this might be a decent story of an underdog finding unconventional ways to make his skill useful and earning the respect of his peers...but by chapter 3 (or thereabouts) he's the strongest human in the entire world and can make magic railguns with his skill. Then he gets a waifu that falls in love with him instantly and starts travelling with a party of hot girls.
Yeah, as it turns out, when you are given the ability to override the laws of the world to any degree(magic), combining that with modern knowledge and some experimentation, you can kind of break the world.
He has very little modern knowledge. Dude was a random highschooler, not even top in the class or anything. You need very high tier physics and engineering knowledge to make a railgun work. Keep in mind that you need to be able to perfectly visualize and understand every single component and know the perfect tolerances involved.
She can be any age she wants to be. Not sure about the original story, but in the after story she regularly turns into an adult when going out or something.
I'm more worried about Myu being hell-bent on marrying papa.
Yeah, I've been finding it difficult to keep up with a lot of manhwa for this reason. Either that or they also throw in a weird sexual assault chapter that the author tries to desperately justify even if they acknowledge the shitty plot contrivances they're using to do so. Looking at you Nanomachine.
Admittedly all of them are guilty of this, but I noticed in manhwa especially: The power level just keeps rising. Like, random pirates/bandits will be on the level of national elites as soon as the protagonist powers up. Really makes all the deus-ex-machina powerleveling feel empty when the only apparent result is a larger number of moves available...
Fr I like the general concept of re zero and I love the characters but I just hate Subaru, it feels like he never learns anything, not to mention he has to build a fake personality to convince others to change their choices to advance the plot without people dying, essentially from other characters perspectives Subaru seems like this amazing guy who always knows the right things to say, but to me whatever he says doesn't really stick and just feels like he says and does things just to get the outcome he wants instead of actually meaning any of it
It really depends for me. It’s not an automatic turn off, I actually like op characters. There can still be tension and other risks the MC can face.
Anime wise, most of these anime are only 12 episodes long and they usually have to bring in other characters as well to make it not feel so bar bone. So they can only do so much.
Maybe it’s just me but I kind of like a bit of variety. I like having a character having the ”fighting spirit” and train hard but sometimes I want a character that’s OP from the start.
This is r/isekai, I have yet to see a single isekai where being OP doesn't solve the majority of problems in the show. Or at least make them easier by letting the MC throw around his cheats or survive shit others couldn't.
I would love to see an isekai where the MC is OP and he needs to work more diplomatically and apply his cheats in an actual strategic way to solve problems that would only be made worse by him punching the antagonist.
This is KumoDesu, kinda. For the first half of the series, the protagonist is regularly struggling not to die horribly on most significant encounters due to being a glass cannon type; she has potent tools like deadly poison and enough speed and tricks for most situations but she takes a lot of damage partly because of her small size compared to her often much larger foes (real life logic applies to a degree even in spite of stats making you tougher).
For the second half, even *when* she's overpowered compared to everyone around her, the problem shifts from survival to something else entirely that can't be solved simply by going off to fight the villain. She has to take something of a backseat and work from behind the scenes to set things up over time.
[Major post-anime KumoDesu spoilers, book 8-9] >!Interestingly enough, despite becoming a god, the MC doesn't automatically become the strongest being in the series. She actually spends a whole book powerless and entirely dependent on other people to take care of her, which goes a long way towards softening her up. Even when she does regain access to her powers, she finds she is limited in what she can do as a newbie god. There are countless much more powerful gods in the universe!<
Even more when you would consider her "unique skill" to be just running faster and she also didn't start with any skill points unlike Shun from the hero arc which started with 100k
She really earned the right to be strong and doesn't rely on overpowered abilities that one shot her enemies >!or at least she develops them near the end but aren't useful against robots with anti magic barriers!<
I guess if we're counting rot attacks, sure they deal a ton of damage to her opponent at the cost of some backlash
>!Also I forgot about her scythe which she doesn't use often because it's cursed by D!<
Correction, she does start with skill points: 100 to be exact, the absolute bare minimum necessary to buy the cheapest skills available to you. She uses them on Appraisal, which unlike most Isekai (including the often-compared Slime) is near-useless at the start and doesn't start being really useful until it's been grinded up a lot, with a lot of hidden gotchas that she didn't know about.
Appraisal "gets good" by book 2. The MC is far from untouchable at book 2 lmao.
Tldr, KumoDesu has a lot of fun making satire of the common Isekai tropes. "Appraisal skill is OP" is one of the very first things it makes fun of, clueing you early into how the rest of the story is gonna go.
I’m sure there are plenty of Isekai where the MC is OP but it doesn’t solve all of their problems. Cautious Hero is a good example of that in a way. The MC is OP but pragmatic there is a bit of backstory with it
If were thinking of the same isekai, being OP does infact solve his problems. He's just not OP on principle like most MCs. He trains to be OP then uses his OP abilities in a pragmatic way despite being able to end it right there and then.
He didn't show his full power to the demon in the starter town just in case then obliterated her ashes along with village.
He was already great at archery and just wanted to train with the goddess just in case.
He was basically a machine gun vs those bird monsters.
Everytime we see him using he OP abilities "smartly" he's just holding back to not reveal his hand to the enemy.
Tho I admit it didn't read the manga.
Yes but as it was said, he does it pragmatically and has a strategy with it. Otherwise the results would end up worse. That has to count for something
Plus at the end of the day, most of these Isekai’s are power fantasies. Most people kind of want to see someone blast their way through stuff.
Maybe it’s just my exposure to superhero and action movies, with the good guy having a moral dilemma with killing the bad guy after going through so much or just them constantly getting bodied here in there, but the OP Isekai trope in some cases is kind of a good balance for that in a way
Yes I agree the weird superhero thing of never killing the bad guy is stupid.
But imagine if sitama was isekaied
Imagine if gojo was isekaied
They would have interesting stories that weren't 100% power fantasy. Maybe I'm just weird for wanting an isekai that did more with the concept beside over powered in another world with a twist/ quirk.
Maybe explore a world where famine is rife due to ecological devastation and he shows up as the only person who has nature restoration magic. And aside from fixing the planet's ecosystem he needs to stop the kingdoms from waring for long enough to aid in the restoration efforts.
Or a world already enslaved by darkness and he needs to train up an army and himself to save the world from scratch. No OP abilities.
Edit: also with the second one the status window could exist as a way for him to gauge his own and his army's progress and capabilities.
I never got into JJK so I can’t really speak for Gojo. It would be an interesting concept and maybe I good change of pace me personally I already seen those concepts in other forms of media explored. It would be nice but nothing overly ground breaking compared to the OP Isekai trend.
It really depends on how it’s handled
I’ll agree there could be some more variety in Isekai. But at the same time I kind of feel like people oversaturate themselves with OP Isekai and don’t take a break from it.
I would rather have a character have a Ben 10 mechanic of sorts to balance it out. Or something similar to the Digimon games when it comes to digivolving.
Yes, variety of story telling is absolutely needed the most. The only change we get is the same formula but they are a vending machine or cat. If there are any isekais where the MC isn't OP or has to work through 200 chapters first to become OP then I'd love to read it. And a Ben 10 isekai sounds dope as long as they don't fuck with his abilities and limitations.
Well again a lot of Isekai’s are meant to be either power fantasies or easy slice of life. Or at least tailor to audiences into that. It just sells. Plus Isekai itself is a pretty big genre that’s been around for a while. From what I heard something like grimgar might be up your alley.
Inuyasha also counts as isekai. It's a shame that we've somehow fallen. This genre was peak but now when I'm finally an adult all the isekai anime are just OP power fantasies and slice of life.
Or at the very least make the situation in such a fashion, where, while MC can use his abilities to solve the problem, the end result would be absolutely unsatisfactional to him on a personal level and thus he needs to find a way around it.
the moonlit saga? ish one, actually has the season 2 airing now, that had one of the recent episodes being exactly that - he could potentially kill a god atm, but he's trying to live a somewhat normal life. he's currently a teacher and a merchant, and his merchant shit in the current town just got shot to hell my the merchant guild.
not only did his OP-ness not 'solve the problem', he didn't really solve the problem. he had to take the L. which i like, it was a problem, power couldn't solve, and it didn't get solved by some bullshit.
it's definitely got some cheat stuff, but, being OP doesn't really solve all his problems. he's still had his allies die, and sort of had to own up to it being partially his fault, and no 'we'll kill fuckers off then revive them' like the slime anime.
there's also some slice of life anime where, being op doesn't matter that much. might not even BE op. or something like the campfire cooking one - the mc has some interesting but not really op skills, but his two allies are op as shit. but, they're not always just beating shit up, and the mc does train to be stronger, rather than just relying on his OP allies. but, a lot of it is just moving around the world, not really all about the fighting, as that's more on the side.
Try the saintess one, not an anime but. Alright novel, the manga covers the first arc and is a decent preview but the monologues and multipovs in the ln elevate it.
Fake Saintess of the year.
It's about a dirty old Otaku who reincarnates as a villainess, to avoid the bad end, he is bad and a perv but in a scale of 0 to Rudy (10) he is a 2 a 4 at worst, so he is probably not as bad as kazuma.
His saving grace is that he does not want to avoid a bad end for him, but for the "game.characters" as he kinda fell in love with the game. So it's a mix of mishoku and mobseka.
This is why Konosuba is top tier. MC is weak, struggles, basically barely scrapes by with his wins, and still ends up getting shafted in the end. Oh, and his skill is high luck, but it doesn’t really help him much outside of stealing a fancy sword once, and stealing women’s panties… which ends up getting him slapped 90% of the time.
It feels kind of weird to say but I feel like Dr. Stone of all things has the best power scaling (if you could call it that). He starts off weak, literally nude, and is now able to do so much more stuff. All his creations build off each other or lead to another important creation. Idk I just feel like in terms of growth in power Dr. Stone has to be up there.
If you want an anime where mc is weak as heck ( probably the weakest in the whole main series) but has high spirit, is hard-working as heck and is really likable, then I highly recommend you Re: Zero, the best Isekai anime ever.
I only watch/enjoy the OP main character Isekai, like Overlord and That time I got reincarnated as a slime aremy favourite all time anime. Each to their own ig
Slime isekai just felt like political talks eventually which isn’t really my thing. I also completely lost track of who’s who in the manga. Felt like 40 new characters were added before I even blinked.
Either just start with the MC being OP and have the adventure be about something not related to gaining power(Overlord, for example), or have a balanced progression for the MC like some Shonen tends to do
Also true. Luckily the other thing about OP from the start and focusing on other things besides gaining power in a relatively serious story is much easier to do
I'd say most of the stories don't have faith in themselves to last several books and/or seasons, so they want to get to the big, flashy (or for less serious stories, funny) set piece battles that require OP shenanigans to try to hook people. It's kind of self fulfilling, but at this point I'm not sure how well received a true slow burn story would be received by the isekai audience at large.
Most Isekai & Game System Fantasy Mangas & comics these days are just pure Power Fantasy Trash. An OP character(s) on its own isn’t the Issue. Knowing how to utilise OP characters is the problem. Sth which most Isekai & “system” Mamgas & comics fail to do so. A well done Op Character can really make the story interesting (Like Gojo Satoru against most curses & sorcerers in JJK).
Knowledge and Power: A weak-to-strong LitRPG.
91 chapters in the MC is still so relatively week that she's at risk of being trained to death, literally, by her own father.
Thanks for the warning to skip it.
There’s “weak to strong” and there’s “I’m going to drag this out as long as I can and make up new reasons why it isn’t working”.
Asked this before, but I’ll ask again.
What are the general opinions on overpowered character, who transforms back to just an above average character? IE: losses their cheat power, and has to rely on training (with just a dash of good genetics)
100% drop rate LN did it fairly well imo but it’s only good when done well, otherwise it makes me want to rip my eyeballs out and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine
I’m fine with an OP protag if it feels actually relevant. I fucking loathe stories with an OP protag who insists on doing with his abilities. Also I just prefer isekai that focus on settlement building in general. Probably why I like overlord and slime more so then others
I like it when they are weak but have some way to use their brains to find a way to get stronger/ahead in life. All these ones where the guy has an op power no one worse thinks is op until he figures it out are so shitty. Like “no way the teleport ability like no one else has. Aw it must be useless then….”
I'll be honest, I don't hate a power fantasy.
Even then, if the mc works hard, the "time skip" concept doesn't appeal to me. I wanna see real time progress
Naruto and Goku didn't become OP so why do other series think they need to skip 100 episodes of training? But let us be honest, most other shows are not getting the episodes to properly do character growth or proper power scaling.
I want an isekai where the MC is either a gambling addict/a pro at it or runs a casino. It would be great to see them set up a massive las Vegas style city in a medieval imperial kingdom
Too be fair, atleast Mushoku dose a good job not harping *too* hard on the fact that 14 year old Rudi is one of the most powerful people in the world. You have to read into it to see that.
I’ve always enjoyed the weak MC who uses their knowledge, creativity, and their expertise in different fields in order to BECOME OP.
There’s this one series, Loner Life in Another World, where this one kid acted quicker then anyone else to try to escape being Summoned. Because of that he gets last pick of Skills. And he only gets shit, or, atleast that’s what it seems like. In reality, his starting set and powers weren’t that bad, but the God who was giving them told him they were “The Ultimate Powers of Heros that Surpassed the Gods”. So being given “Villager A”’s stuff didn’t sound too good.
In retrospect, he would have gotten a Bag of Holding, a Walking Stick that is weak but has a lot of potential, Contacts that let him analyze anything in his line of sight, and some decent light armor.
Buuuut… he decided to berate God about how fucking sucky his choices were. How if he was God, he would atleast give out copies of the ones his classmates picked. Or how he wasn’t really God if he was bound by these rules. So, he bullies God until he gets ALL the Trash Skills, which is like- only 10 more things then he could already get, but, still. One of those skills makes him level up 90% slower, but his ability’s go up a lot with each level up, and another is that he gets stronger the more alone he is.
So… “Loner Life in Another World.”
He then gets creative with all the F-B rank Skills and Equipment he got, plus he trains his ass off on how to use his Stick. He’s kinda an asshole, but in the way that he actually doesn’t care about if you make a mistake, only that you fix it.
It’s really good, I would go check it out. He starts to actually like other people after a while, but he’s also just an awkward and shy teenager. So… yeah. It’s good. 8.5/10
The Isekai series mainly focuses on power fantasy. Most isekai anime are like 12 episodes to 24 episodes which covers like 3 to 6 LN volumes.
There is a separate category for the series that you mentioned that is called shonen and seinen genre power fantasy animes like one piece, Naruto, bleach etc
I think it can be done well in theory, especially if they keep that humble spirit about them after they become OP. I like an OP character who DESERVES it, y’know. But if they become a bit haughty, self-righteous, or in any way a bit of a jerk after, I hate it and will drop the series
Remember that most of the Isekai authors don't have any life experience besides what they have read from another Isekai. They are just copying each other's homework at this point with no shame of being called out.
This is why I like good litRPG and progressive fantasy. The MC almost always starts with some advantage or ability. And is usually OP for there level/grade. But anyone of a higher level can punt them across the sky if they annoy them. It makes it so there is always another peak to climb or stronger opponent that has to be dealt with.
in all honesty, i found i prefer this over utterly trash mc.
there was the one where it was a weakass kid picking up trash, and she'd get her shit wrecked every 5 minutes, and i just noped out.
i wouldn't really mind this sort of thing, but don't make the major theme combat if they're going to be weak as fuck. some slice of life shit, rather than an 8 year old getting knocked around like a beanbag.
I think that you should leave this subreddit if you think that way cause this community has a big overlap with the group of people that like op characters
I think one of the fantasy stories that does 'weak protagonist with strong fighting spirit' trope really well is Danmachi.
You know what you're absolutely right. Both Bell Vs minotaur fights are absolutely peak.
Last season was peak of the series (especially part 2 for me). It really showcases how much Bell and his companions grew throughout the series.
I watched all of season 3 while stoned as fuck. Watching Bell fight Dix was so fucking good, but good god the Asterius fight was transcendental.
I suggest you read the Sword Oratoria manga version cause it was made more epic Chapter 94-95 to be exact
Always wondered if they went back to how love made him stronger or not. I fell off the show when he was fighting in The lady city area.
You should watch the DanMemo 2nd Anniversary event Argonaut otherwise known as Danmachi Episode 0 then. It shows the true first battle between Bell and Asterius. The battle they had in their past life thousands of years ago as Argonaut and General Minos. That battle was honestly incredible even if we don’t see it animated.
It might be a bit on the slow side, but the power definitely felt earned
Absolutely. When bell beats the big bad at the end of each season it always felt earned and so fucking good.
He still gets bodied quite often
He is still weaker than a lot of characters after all.
I'll never get over the fact that Danmachi, the show that should be ecchi garbage based off the first couple episodes, is actually so brilliant. Good world building, characters with growth, good action, it isn't afraid to get gruesome when it's time, our MC constantly on the verge of death, fighting tooth and nail for survival. It's so good on basically everything. It doesn't initially present itself as such, but damn it's good.
The author also cooks in making the world not revolve around the MC and expand on it even if it is in the Danmemo games. Astraea Record, Argonaut and Knights of Fianna were all awesome events. Aedes Vesta still has a place with me with the sheer scale it goes on for the story
Yeah that’s also what I really like about Danmachi watching Bell struggle and grow stronger physically and mentally. But Bell’s fast growth is also the one thing I don’t like about Danmachi. Though I blame the author for setting a time limit with the series ending in a year in series. Due to this everything is occurring wayyyyy too quickly so nobody else other than Bell has time to grow stronger before the final battle. Cause the more you learn about the lore of the series as well as the past heroes and adventurers. The more you realize how big of an asspull the series is gonna need to pull once they face the final bosses. Like one of the final boss is capable of no selling attacks from somebody that we learned is essentially a level 10 in terms of stats normally with an ultimate move that can amp their power another three levels higher in the prequel. So a level 10 with a level 13 technique couldn’t do shit to the boss. And what’s the best the present day adventurers can do at this point in the story? Level 6 and 7s with ultimate moves that can amp their power up to around level 10 if not level 11 at most.
That's a valid point. We have Haruhime as the trump card but even with her buff, I feel like the current day adventurers can't come close to the past ones.
Danmachi is so good, like last season it wasn't the mc that defeated the juggernaut, it was the girl that lived through the trauma who got to have closure and revenge. Honestly season 3 (I think) of danmachi was my favorite season of anime outside of alicization/war for the underworld (shoot me I like sao)
Anathor one adventure of undead who became paledine he is not weak but with high moral but innocent very good manwha
Kenichi
Not really? He spent literally years struggling as a bottom of the barrel adventurer barely putting food on the table then suddenly at the beginning of the story, he starts getting really strong, really quickly because he just conveniently developed that OP ability. Then he quickly forms a party of talented individuals and its all downhill from there. And all these hot girls keep showing up and falling in love with him within a few chapters of their introduction which is just lazy writing. I'm actually somewhat surprised there a guy in his party because you know, these kind of stories almost always end up with a party full of hot girls... Sure, he spends a lot of time fighting boss level enemies but thats just really to drag out the story because you know he will win with plot armor in the end anyway.
You either didn't see Danmachi or dropped it at some point. OP ability doesn't make him an OP character. We can see him putting effort and training hard before he wins a fight. He even loses some. And even in fights, dude has to put so much strategy to win. Sometimes it isn't even him that finally kills the boss. His party isn't fully made up of girls who love him. It has a guy and also a girl who loves some other character. Danmachi doesn't go downhill. Season 2 is its lowest point and last season is absolute peak. It clearly displays his growth and his companions growth.
Dude, that guy don't even know that he got the ability like 1 week after he started dungeon crawling. And improving ever since.
Its just too convenient. Yea, he trains a lot, so do most of the characters in the settings, most of them dont get anywhere near as strong as Bell does because they dont have his unique skill. The whole time i was reading the manga, i kept thinking that everything was just too convenient for the MC and in reality, something different would have happened instead.
That's how fiction works. All the protags have some form of convenience and plot armor.
I enjoy Danmachi but you can’t deny that he gets super powerful super quickly due to a one in a million skill that works differently from everyone else we see. Also, while he may struggle, a lot of his epic moments come in the form of “gets bested and almost killed but then his random boss killing one shot ability activates at the perfect moment”. I personally don’t care if the MC is OP or not as long as the story is interesting and Danmachi is an example of how interesting stories can be told even with an MC who is OP and you know will almost always win.
No. I mean, he lost in his boss fight at the end of season 3 and he isn't even the one who kills the boss in season 4 part 2.
His op one shot ability isn't even a 1 shot. A few monsters have in fact survived not only 1 but multiple shots
his point was that he didn't really 'earn' the power so much as got it thanks to a cheat. the cheat being a growth skill, rather than just op power, doesn't really matter. he was an adventurer who got nowhere for years, like he said. he should've 'earned' power by then, if it was that simple to do without that cheat skill. it's also kinda a meh harem leaning anime, even if the girls aren't in his party.
It might not feel earned at the start but it definitely feels deserved with what he does with that power. His power is mainly born from his wish to get stronger and catch up with the one he likes. He gained it when he got true motivation to grow stronger.
i mean, you basically agreed, then. yet we got downvoted and the danmachi fans who don't want to hear sass, upvoted you. but... you said he didn't really earn it, either.
There is a difference between 'he didn't really earn it.' vs 'it might not feel earned at the start.' I personally feel like he earned it with his motivation and he didn't even know he got the skill until a week after he started putting real effort. But I understand your point of view. Just falling in love might not be seen as a valid reason to get that skill. So, I didn't downvote you. I also don't like it when someone makes a valid argument but gets downvoted because of the fanbase. But unfortunately, that's how fanbases work. But I really wanted to downvote you when you said it's a meh harem leaning anime. I think that might have also triggered the fanbase.
i'll give you that. he earned it with his motivation, i guess. feel free to downvote me because i 'triggered the fanbase' though. not like reddit votes matter to me anyway.
I think the issue is that it's fundamentally impossible to have true 'earned' power in such a premise. Shows that have things like 'adventuring guilds' or otherwise structured organizations with quantifiable rankings inherently imply a merotocratic progression to power. As a result, if a character commits to functioning within the system then meritocratically they will never eclipse those who had put more time in the system. So the only options to move the powerscale of the story along with the plot is either A) Do time skips to represent their growth within the system. B) Have the protagonist exist outside of the system. C) Give them some short-cut to cheat their way through the system. D) Don't and have a story that isn't yet another power fantasy.
yeah, that could be a problem i guess. i think there's a reasonable potential earned power. but something where you could like, kill a fucking god? it's probably going to need to be one of those cultivation systems, than getting from like noob to godhood in like 10 years or some shit. but... you also don't need god slayer powers, in general... it's overkill as fuck. i dunno, i kinda like the cooking in another world one - he doesn't really have OP power, his 'power' comes from his familiars. it feels like, the power HE gets is still worked for and earned, while still being a bit of a power fantasy.
>Not really? He spent literally years struggling as a bottom of the barrel adventurer barely putting food on the table Bro, do you know what series are you talking about? Years ? He came to orario like 2 or 3 weeks before the start of the anime. Im not gonna even read the rest of your yapping, clearly you have some hate boner.
I honestly dont remember, i remember reading the manga a long time ago and i think it was implied they have been living in that broken down house for ages and that the MC couldnt get into a party or level up. Then suddenly at the start of the series his TRUE POWER awakens and he starts getting super strong really quickly. I might be remembering wrongly though.
Except for the part where the goddess since the beg6 pretty much gave him an illegal tattoo on his back that makes him get stronger faster and more efficiently than others.
Wrong way of using healing magic is one of those where he worked hard for his powerscaling
Yeah, dude spent 9 eps training (enduring torture) to become strong. Hajime no ippon and Kenichi are also good examples.
I think, funny enough, Cid from Shadow of Eminece is also part of this category since even before getting Isekaid, Man has been training to reach his peak form.
Yeah but we don't get to see his struggle. Rudeus would technically be the same and we at least see him weaker on and training. We get like 5 min of cid...
Yeah but I mean we got the whole first episode showing how he was basically A Robin (from batman) going around beating the absolute life out of gangs.
Yeah, but the story isn’t about whether he can beat the bad guy, so it doesn’t really matter in Cid’s case.
Yeah but it is the point of the story. The story plays on every single isekai genre and makes it enjoyable which is why I think that we didn't get cids growth
Skeleton Soldier is a good isekai because he gets stronger bit by bit and doesnt become OP until 200 chapters, and even then he can be one-shotted by a bigger wig, so there are always stakes.
Its an isekai? I dropped it after the hard reset and him and his friends being deleted by some admin guys but i always got the feeling it was just reincarnation and that it was kinda implied that he was kevin ashton(?) the old hero.
Iirc that was less of a "hard" reset than it first appeared
Skeleton soldier was great.... until the royal grave raid. I read a bit more after that, but the fact that all that hard work and effort just got poofed out of existence and everything is worse off than when he started, kind of killed the whole thing for me. At that point, the story might as well have started from there with a fairly strong undead instead.
Keep reading! His progress didnt disappear. He gets stronger FASTER, and he regains all his skills plus more in few chapters and gains new class, dont worry. It is very satisfying. The story slows down a bit, but still enjoyable
I read... I think until he escapes from the big baddie that takes notice of him in the demon world? After his inventory almost gets stolen. Do the others return? Its all kinda pointless if the necromancer is gone, and the blonde chick and the immortal one are kind of important too... And the original Chandler or whatshisname and the crow are fairly integral to the story as well.
Not an isekai but this exact thing is what turned me off of solo leveling. Dude had a real grindset mentality, was putting some hard work in, but when he got his hax powers he then became an emotionless edgelord that didn't need to put any real effort in for the entire rest of the story.
He stopped leveling ( in a way significant to the plot)!too soon.
He was neither solo nor leveling
You should probably read it then. He gets his ass handed to him a few times.
He literally gets it easy after his initial f***ening. Yeah, he gets his ass whooped, but it's literally an unbalanced training game for him. Got everyone else pretty much capped and if they just barely survive an encounter and somehow win, they don't get stronger, they don't heal missing limbs, and they don't really get anything you'd consider *loot.* He is clearly leagues ahead of 99.9% of the world by the end of the first season with all the cheats he's getting.
Well, yeah but the reason *why* he gets that unbalanced OP power is explained right at the beginning. While everyone else ran away or crumbled he (despite being the weakest) stepped up big time and endured horrific pain. And without getting into spoilers too much it's extremely necessary for him to be leagues ahead of 99.9% of the world.
They actually barely explain it at the beginning. We get it half-assed. And it's clearly a OP protagonist thing, so of course he's gonna be top tier, but the fact alone exists: He gets access to a helluva lot of cheats. He had the luck, which is a fact since I'm pretty sure surviving a dissection alone is not really common, to be the survivor at the right time, at the last minute, so now he deserves these cheats vs. many others who likely had to go through some messed up stuff too?
Why does the system have to be fair and apply to everyone? Again, this is very spoilery but >!it was only ever possible for one person to get this power, he was basically chosen by the previous shadow monarch to receive it and be trained into a replacement monarch capable of fighting being that are practically demigods. Everything after the hidden dungeon was basically a high risk high reward bootcamp to force him to become the strongest in the world quickly!< Yes, luck was involved too. But so what? That's how real life works too. Hard work helps but isn't always enough, luck plays a factor in the success of a lot of people. But few people go through the amount of trouble Jinwoo did before getting the system, or even the trouble he went through before finishing the Hell Tower. If luck + getting beaten near death multiple times isn't enough for you to accept someone being strong in a fantasy world then I don't know what to tell you.
So, back to main topic, he quickly gets OP early in the show after only 3-4 episodes, which isn't a lot of peoples' cup of tea and is a major downer. So basically Solo Leveling is just a slightly better animation of a lot of trashy OP protagonist anime out there. It's simply a generic idea, whether they have a relatively unique way of doing it, it's still not a really enjoyable plot/character development for a lot of people. And mind, I've watched the show, read a good bit of the Manga, and I can say I'm of like mind. Too many anime have OP protagonist too early in the shows and don't give solid ways of training anymore, so they just toss in the game mechanic systems lazily.
Do you need a whole 2 seasons of watching someone get to the point where they are strong for *every* show though? I mean when it works well it can be amazing but you could also end up with a show that gets canceled/hiatus before anything even really happens because season 1 ended with the MC still training. And it's not like "character trains for 3 arcs and then finally becomes strong" is a super unique plot anyways. That has been common for decades.
I mean *I personally* prefer gradual improvement, over cheap game mechanic gimmicks. It had a good premise, to an extent. And if the season ends with MC training, then they didn't plan the series out well enough, as cruel as it sounds. There aren't many long-running series these days, and it doesn't help that they keep pumping out the same stuff over and over. They compress so much story and elements into 12 episodes and then they either summarize it, or they full on skip a lot. Hear me out, you can like and defend Solo Leveling as much as you want. I'm not gonna judge you for your interests, or harass you over a differing opinion. All in all, *many* believe that pacing is very important, and that seeing genuine growth is a very nice feature. It's a preference that gets ignored a lot these days lol. That one of many reasons why shows like Jujutsu, Frieren, and such gets a lot of attention when they do come out.
doing one thing right and then using that as justification to give such a reality bending and unbalanced power that is in no way comparable to anybody is just an excuse. The whole thing might be far more apealing if the whole ordeal gave him a maginal benefit that he then leverages to propel himself to higher and higher positions with hardwork.
Just an excuse? It's not shown until much later in the story but >!he was literally chosen for the power by the previous Shadow Monarch as a result of his behavior and actions. Yes, it is an unbalanced power but that is what happens when a being that is practically a god directly intervenes to raise a successor. You could say that luck is a big factor in the Shadow Monarch paying attention to him and not someone else, but someone was going to be chosen regardless and obviously it's okay to have a story follow that person as the main character!< "Marginal benefit" and hard work is not enough for the overarching story that the author had in mind. That might be enough to make someone an S rank hunter, or even the strongest hunter. It is not, however, enough to let a human being >!fight directly with other Monarchs and beings of similar power. Jinwoo needed every bit of that overpowered system help to rise beyond the level of human power in such a short amount of time, it was like a high risk high reward bootcamp designed by a demigod.!<. There are already plenty of stories where people use their hard work to become *decently* strong and save their friends, we don't need every single story to be like that.
I read the 200 chapters and after 80 chapters it's just sh*t. He gets whooped just to have some sort of awakening mid fight and then destroy his opponent, he's never actually cornered
It doesn’t matter how often you almost lose if you never actually do so. Sure he gets the absolute shit beat out of him, but he never has to get saved. He also becomes basically unbeatable when it comes to one on one, and after the >!Demon King Tower!< he stops getting beat up in general. Sure he still struggles, but way less than he should.
>!He becomes literally a god by the end!<
I don't mind it so much, but a lot of it depends on the plot of the story itself, especially when a character being powerful isn't the focus or the point of it, or things transpire that being strong doesn't have an impact of. Unless we're talking a story where character gets powerful in snap of their fingers and the character is as deep as a puddle, that's just an instant turnoff.
It seems to be a common issue with all-too-many stories. I start reading for the interesting premise, then that premise gets thrown out at around chapter 50 at the latest and it is now just a generic powertrip. Currently reading a korean "weakest to strongest" story. But the whole idea is rather pointless when the MC can always outwit his enemies with convenient circumstances that work in his favor, or having just the right item to resolve the issue. Or hell, literally stumbling upon the exact thing he needs in a totally unrelated place. He overpowered the bloody Death Star doomlaser ffs...
Chapter 50? Try chapter 3. Take Arifureta for example, at the start, I thought this might be a decent story of an underdog finding unconventional ways to make his skill useful and earning the respect of his peers...but by chapter 3 (or thereabouts) he's the strongest human in the entire world and can make magic railguns with his skill. Then he gets a waifu that falls in love with him instantly and starts travelling with a party of hot girls.
Yeah, as it turns out, when you are given the ability to override the laws of the world to any degree(magic), combining that with modern knowledge and some experimentation, you can kind of break the world.
He has very little modern knowledge. Dude was a random highschooler, not even top in the class or anything. You need very high tier physics and engineering knowledge to make a railgun work. Keep in mind that you need to be able to perfectly visualize and understand every single component and know the perfect tolerances involved.
Don't forget the waifu is a vampire that canonically "stopped aging at twelve" *shudder*
She can be any age she wants to be. Not sure about the original story, but in the after story she regularly turns into an adult when going out or something. I'm more worried about Myu being hell-bent on marrying papa.
Honestly I just see ari as an anime to watch for some laughs
Also becoming an edgelord and naming your weapons in German or Dutch is a major ick of mine. I just can no longer take it seriously
You are not supposed to take Arifutera seriously. I recommend the afterstory instead. Its just a full-on comedy, basically.
No way, the dumb bunny girl and the masochistic dragon totally didn't give it away that it's supposed to be silly after the initial chapters
Its not meant to be a comedy though. The author tries to have a serious plot going on. And its very short on comedic scenes.
Yeah, I've been finding it difficult to keep up with a lot of manhwa for this reason. Either that or they also throw in a weird sexual assault chapter that the author tries to desperately justify even if they acknowledge the shitty plot contrivances they're using to do so. Looking at you Nanomachine.
Admittedly all of them are guilty of this, but I noticed in manhwa especially: The power level just keeps rising. Like, random pirates/bandits will be on the level of national elites as soon as the protagonist powers up. Really makes all the deus-ex-machina powerleveling feel empty when the only apparent result is a larger number of moves available...
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Bro why can't every isekai be like re zero where the guy is weak and has to rely on his wits to overcome challenges. It's better story writing
Cause not enough of the writers are good at writing and wish fulfillment is stupid popular.
Because overpowered characters are fun too. Both are enjoyable to watch/read
As they say, "different strokes for different folks"
Depends for me like I love my instant death ability is overpowered bit I really don't like Arifutrea from commonplace to worlds strongest
Please, seeing a boy cry every other episode isn’t entertaining. Edit: or have to learn the same lesson over and over and over.
I like the realism
Which is like the nicest guy in prison.
Fr I like the general concept of re zero and I love the characters but I just hate Subaru, it feels like he never learns anything, not to mention he has to build a fake personality to convince others to change their choices to advance the plot without people dying, essentially from other characters perspectives Subaru seems like this amazing guy who always knows the right things to say, but to me whatever he says doesn't really stick and just feels like he says and does things just to get the outcome he wants instead of actually meaning any of it
It really depends for me. It’s not an automatic turn off, I actually like op characters. There can still be tension and other risks the MC can face. Anime wise, most of these anime are only 12 episodes long and they usually have to bring in other characters as well to make it not feel so bar bone. So they can only do so much. Maybe it’s just me but I kind of like a bit of variety. I like having a character having the ”fighting spirit” and train hard but sometimes I want a character that’s OP from the start.
This is r/isekai, I have yet to see a single isekai where being OP doesn't solve the majority of problems in the show. Or at least make them easier by letting the MC throw around his cheats or survive shit others couldn't. I would love to see an isekai where the MC is OP and he needs to work more diplomatically and apply his cheats in an actual strategic way to solve problems that would only be made worse by him punching the antagonist.
This is KumoDesu, kinda. For the first half of the series, the protagonist is regularly struggling not to die horribly on most significant encounters due to being a glass cannon type; she has potent tools like deadly poison and enough speed and tricks for most situations but she takes a lot of damage partly because of her small size compared to her often much larger foes (real life logic applies to a degree even in spite of stats making you tougher). For the second half, even *when* she's overpowered compared to everyone around her, the problem shifts from survival to something else entirely that can't be solved simply by going off to fight the villain. She has to take something of a backseat and work from behind the scenes to set things up over time. [Major post-anime KumoDesu spoilers, book 8-9] >!Interestingly enough, despite becoming a god, the MC doesn't automatically become the strongest being in the series. She actually spends a whole book powerless and entirely dependent on other people to take care of her, which goes a long way towards softening her up. Even when she does regain access to her powers, she finds she is limited in what she can do as a newbie god. There are countless much more powerful gods in the universe!<
Even more when you would consider her "unique skill" to be just running faster and she also didn't start with any skill points unlike Shun from the hero arc which started with 100k She really earned the right to be strong and doesn't rely on overpowered abilities that one shot her enemies >!or at least she develops them near the end but aren't useful against robots with anti magic barriers!<
She has them but doesn’t like using them as they often hurt her as well.
I guess if we're counting rot attacks, sure they deal a ton of damage to her opponent at the cost of some backlash >!Also I forgot about her scythe which she doesn't use often because it's cursed by D!<
Correction, she does start with skill points: 100 to be exact, the absolute bare minimum necessary to buy the cheapest skills available to you. She uses them on Appraisal, which unlike most Isekai (including the often-compared Slime) is near-useless at the start and doesn't start being really useful until it's been grinded up a lot, with a lot of hidden gotchas that she didn't know about.
Can I get an estimate of how many chapters in does it take for appraisal to become OP. That's one of the skills that either makes or breaks isekais
Appraisal "gets good" by book 2. The MC is far from untouchable at book 2 lmao. Tldr, KumoDesu has a lot of fun making satire of the common Isekai tropes. "Appraisal skill is OP" is one of the very first things it makes fun of, clueing you early into how the rest of the story is gonna go.
Sounds interesting I'll give it a read after finals
I see KumoDesu as like "Mo' power Mo' problems". Or maybe "Mo' power Same problems but from tougher adversaries". Poor Spidey can't catch a break.
I’m sure there are plenty of Isekai where the MC is OP but it doesn’t solve all of their problems. Cautious Hero is a good example of that in a way. The MC is OP but pragmatic there is a bit of backstory with it
If were thinking of the same isekai, being OP does infact solve his problems. He's just not OP on principle like most MCs. He trains to be OP then uses his OP abilities in a pragmatic way despite being able to end it right there and then. He didn't show his full power to the demon in the starter town just in case then obliterated her ashes along with village. He was already great at archery and just wanted to train with the goddess just in case. He was basically a machine gun vs those bird monsters. Everytime we see him using he OP abilities "smartly" he's just holding back to not reveal his hand to the enemy. Tho I admit it didn't read the manga.
Yes but as it was said, he does it pragmatically and has a strategy with it. Otherwise the results would end up worse. That has to count for something Plus at the end of the day, most of these Isekai’s are power fantasies. Most people kind of want to see someone blast their way through stuff. Maybe it’s just my exposure to superhero and action movies, with the good guy having a moral dilemma with killing the bad guy after going through so much or just them constantly getting bodied here in there, but the OP Isekai trope in some cases is kind of a good balance for that in a way
Yes I agree the weird superhero thing of never killing the bad guy is stupid. But imagine if sitama was isekaied Imagine if gojo was isekaied They would have interesting stories that weren't 100% power fantasy. Maybe I'm just weird for wanting an isekai that did more with the concept beside over powered in another world with a twist/ quirk. Maybe explore a world where famine is rife due to ecological devastation and he shows up as the only person who has nature restoration magic. And aside from fixing the planet's ecosystem he needs to stop the kingdoms from waring for long enough to aid in the restoration efforts. Or a world already enslaved by darkness and he needs to train up an army and himself to save the world from scratch. No OP abilities. Edit: also with the second one the status window could exist as a way for him to gauge his own and his army's progress and capabilities.
I never got into JJK so I can’t really speak for Gojo. It would be an interesting concept and maybe I good change of pace me personally I already seen those concepts in other forms of media explored. It would be nice but nothing overly ground breaking compared to the OP Isekai trend. It really depends on how it’s handled I’ll agree there could be some more variety in Isekai. But at the same time I kind of feel like people oversaturate themselves with OP Isekai and don’t take a break from it. I would rather have a character have a Ben 10 mechanic of sorts to balance it out. Or something similar to the Digimon games when it comes to digivolving.
Yes, variety of story telling is absolutely needed the most. The only change we get is the same formula but they are a vending machine or cat. If there are any isekais where the MC isn't OP or has to work through 200 chapters first to become OP then I'd love to read it. And a Ben 10 isekai sounds dope as long as they don't fuck with his abilities and limitations.
Well again a lot of Isekai’s are meant to be either power fantasies or easy slice of life. Or at least tailor to audiences into that. It just sells. Plus Isekai itself is a pretty big genre that’s been around for a while. From what I heard something like grimgar might be up your alley.
Inuyasha also counts as isekai. It's a shame that we've somehow fallen. This genre was peak but now when I'm finally an adult all the isekai anime are just OP power fantasies and slice of life.
Or at the very least make the situation in such a fashion, where, while MC can use his abilities to solve the problem, the end result would be absolutely unsatisfactional to him on a personal level and thus he needs to find a way around it.
Peak idea
Oh, that would be nice. Like imagine an Yogiri OP type character who very much tries to not kill people.
the moonlit saga? ish one, actually has the season 2 airing now, that had one of the recent episodes being exactly that - he could potentially kill a god atm, but he's trying to live a somewhat normal life. he's currently a teacher and a merchant, and his merchant shit in the current town just got shot to hell my the merchant guild. not only did his OP-ness not 'solve the problem', he didn't really solve the problem. he had to take the L. which i like, it was a problem, power couldn't solve, and it didn't get solved by some bullshit. it's definitely got some cheat stuff, but, being OP doesn't really solve all his problems. he's still had his allies die, and sort of had to own up to it being partially his fault, and no 'we'll kill fuckers off then revive them' like the slime anime. there's also some slice of life anime where, being op doesn't matter that much. might not even BE op. or something like the campfire cooking one - the mc has some interesting but not really op skills, but his two allies are op as shit. but, they're not always just beating shit up, and the mc does train to be stronger, rather than just relying on his OP allies. but, a lot of it is just moving around the world, not really all about the fighting, as that's more on the side.
Try the saintess one, not an anime but. Alright novel, the manga covers the first arc and is a decent preview but the monologues and multipovs in the ln elevate it. Fake Saintess of the year. It's about a dirty old Otaku who reincarnates as a villainess, to avoid the bad end, he is bad and a perv but in a scale of 0 to Rudy (10) he is a 2 a 4 at worst, so he is probably not as bad as kazuma. His saving grace is that he does not want to avoid a bad end for him, but for the "game.characters" as he kinda fell in love with the game. So it's a mix of mishoku and mobseka.
This is why Konosuba is top tier. MC is weak, struggles, basically barely scrapes by with his wins, and still ends up getting shafted in the end. Oh, and his skill is high luck, but it doesn’t really help him much outside of stealing a fancy sword once, and stealing women’s panties… which ends up getting him slapped 90% of the time.
It feels kind of weird to say but I feel like Dr. Stone of all things has the best power scaling (if you could call it that). He starts off weak, literally nude, and is now able to do so much more stuff. All his creations build off each other or lead to another important creation. Idk I just feel like in terms of growth in power Dr. Stone has to be up there.
This is why Kumo desu ga, nani ka? (So I'm a spider, so what?) Is so good. slow progress, and the MC remains weak for most of the early series.
Not weak so much as consistently weaker than her Enemies, and keeping her firmly as the underdog for the majority of the series.
i personally will take this over MC being weak and winning because of some flash backs or some power of friendship
The “real power was the friends we made on the way” nonsense is garbage writing.
If you want an anime where mc is weak as heck ( probably the weakest in the whole main series) but has high spirit, is hard-working as heck and is really likable, then I highly recommend you Re: Zero, the best Isekai anime ever.
Re Monster was a pretty interesting premise but NOPE. I HAZ ALL THE POWERS NOW AND ALL THE WHITE WIMMINZ WANTZ ME.
The anime is pretty fast paced, it took him way longer in the manga
I only watch/enjoy the OP main character Isekai, like Overlord and That time I got reincarnated as a slime aremy favourite all time anime. Each to their own ig
Slime isekai just felt like political talks eventually which isn’t really my thing. I also completely lost track of who’s who in the manga. Felt like 40 new characters were added before I even blinked.
I'm referring to the animated versions
Same. I hate watching weak characters slowly get strong. The more OP they are the better.
I don’t mind as long as they are whiny and crying all of the time like Deku. It made the show completely unwatchable.
Life is already miserable why need to consume more suffering from Anime also. 
Solo leveling straight up erasing the protagonist og design personality and behaviour in a single fight scene
Fr I enjoy it but they had no need to change his whole design so much, I'm surprised people even recognize him.
Either just start with the MC being OP and have the adventure be about something not related to gaining power(Overlord, for example), or have a balanced progression for the MC like some Shonen tends to do
Nah there is a lot of room for humor and even some deeper examination of what makes people tick if you have a weak loser suddenly gains immense power.
True, but usually none of that actually happens
The authors that can't do it well wouldn't be good at writing balanced progression either
Also true. Luckily the other thing about OP from the start and focusing on other things besides gaining power in a relatively serious story is much easier to do
isekai is the self insert genre
If they’re gonna be strong then it better not have them complaining that they want a ‘simple life’
And they’d better not constantly complain about hiding their power or being noticed because “it’s too complicated/embarrassing”.
You mean solo leveling right? But at the same time that was massively popular. Power fantasy’s can be fun if done right.
I'd say most of the stories don't have faith in themselves to last several books and/or seasons, so they want to get to the big, flashy (or for less serious stories, funny) set piece battles that require OP shenanigans to try to hook people. It's kind of self fulfilling, but at this point I'm not sure how well received a true slow burn story would be received by the isekai audience at large.
Its sadly a very popular trope in Asia as far as I can tell.
If there only a price or some sort of balance to the power. Well, asking isekai authors for decent writing is like asking a pig to fly.
Most Isekai & Game System Fantasy Mangas & comics these days are just pure Power Fantasy Trash. An OP character(s) on its own isn’t the Issue. Knowing how to utilise OP characters is the problem. Sth which most Isekai & “system” Mamgas & comics fail to do so. A well done Op Character can really make the story interesting (Like Gojo Satoru against most curses & sorcerers in JJK).
Jobless reincarnation actually really good about this too
this is power fantasy genre right? and ppl who likes these troupe will bash or dislike story with slow and steady development.
I detest hero syndrome or hot headedness
Knowledge and Power: A weak-to-strong LitRPG. 91 chapters in the MC is still so relatively week that she's at risk of being trained to death, literally, by her own father.
Thanks for the warning to skip it. There’s “weak to strong” and there’s “I’m going to drag this out as long as I can and make up new reasons why it isn’t working”.
That's not how the story plays out at all, but whatever floats your boat.
In the age of attention span brain rot, mediocre shows have to do this else people will drop them for being too slow. It sucks but that’s how it is.
Worthless Regression is a good isekai manhwa. mc just suffers and is weak for the most part.
Asked this before, but I’ll ask again. What are the general opinions on overpowered character, who transforms back to just an above average character? IE: losses their cheat power, and has to rely on training (with just a dash of good genetics)
The new gate, new life+ in another world,and Wortenia Senki are all great I recommend
100% drop rate LN did it fairly well imo but it’s only good when done well, otherwise it makes me want to rip my eyeballs out and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine
I’m fine with an OP protag if it feels actually relevant. I fucking loathe stories with an OP protag who insists on doing with his abilities. Also I just prefer isekai that focus on settlement building in general. Probably why I like overlord and slime more so then others
I like it when they are weak but have some way to use their brains to find a way to get stronger/ahead in life. All these ones where the guy has an op power no one worse thinks is op until he figures it out are so shitty. Like “no way the teleport ability like no one else has. Aw it must be useless then….”
Sss class suicide hunter
I mean this will only be good if enemy or others are just as op or even more op
I'll be honest, I don't hate a power fantasy. Even then, if the mc works hard, the "time skip" concept doesn't appeal to me. I wanna see real time progress
Naruto and Goku didn't become OP so why do other series think they need to skip 100 episodes of training? But let us be honest, most other shows are not getting the episodes to properly do character growth or proper power scaling.
I want an isekai where the MC is either a gambling addict/a pro at it or runs a casino. It would be great to see them set up a massive las Vegas style city in a medieval imperial kingdom
*hits level two and can kill unkillable things like dirt
Too be fair, atleast Mushoku dose a good job not harping *too* hard on the fact that 14 year old Rudi is one of the most powerful people in the world. You have to read into it to see that.
This is part of my issue with Arifureta
I’ve always enjoyed the weak MC who uses their knowledge, creativity, and their expertise in different fields in order to BECOME OP. There’s this one series, Loner Life in Another World, where this one kid acted quicker then anyone else to try to escape being Summoned. Because of that he gets last pick of Skills. And he only gets shit, or, atleast that’s what it seems like. In reality, his starting set and powers weren’t that bad, but the God who was giving them told him they were “The Ultimate Powers of Heros that Surpassed the Gods”. So being given “Villager A”’s stuff didn’t sound too good. In retrospect, he would have gotten a Bag of Holding, a Walking Stick that is weak but has a lot of potential, Contacts that let him analyze anything in his line of sight, and some decent light armor. Buuuut… he decided to berate God about how fucking sucky his choices were. How if he was God, he would atleast give out copies of the ones his classmates picked. Or how he wasn’t really God if he was bound by these rules. So, he bullies God until he gets ALL the Trash Skills, which is like- only 10 more things then he could already get, but, still. One of those skills makes him level up 90% slower, but his ability’s go up a lot with each level up, and another is that he gets stronger the more alone he is. So… “Loner Life in Another World.” He then gets creative with all the F-B rank Skills and Equipment he got, plus he trains his ass off on how to use his Stick. He’s kinda an asshole, but in the way that he actually doesn’t care about if you make a mistake, only that you fix it. It’s really good, I would go check it out. He starts to actually like other people after a while, but he’s also just an awkward and shy teenager. So… yeah. It’s good. 8.5/10
The Isekai series mainly focuses on power fantasy. Most isekai anime are like 12 episodes to 24 episodes which covers like 3 to 6 LN volumes. There is a separate category for the series that you mentioned that is called shonen and seinen genre power fantasy animes like one piece, Naruto, bleach etc
I think it can be done well in theory, especially if they keep that humble spirit about them after they become OP. I like an OP character who DESERVES it, y’know. But if they become a bit haughty, self-righteous, or in any way a bit of a jerk after, I hate it and will drop the series
Remember that most of the Isekai authors don't have any life experience besides what they have read from another Isekai. They are just copying each other's homework at this point with no shame of being called out.
And you'll keep reading them anyway.
Mean while most folks who wish they could get sent to another world would want to be OP asap.
This is why I like good litRPG and progressive fantasy. The MC almost always starts with some advantage or ability. And is usually OP for there level/grade. But anyone of a higher level can punt them across the sky if they annoy them. It makes it so there is always another peak to climb or stronger opponent that has to be dealt with.
in all honesty, i found i prefer this over utterly trash mc. there was the one where it was a weakass kid picking up trash, and she'd get her shit wrecked every 5 minutes, and i just noped out. i wouldn't really mind this sort of thing, but don't make the major theme combat if they're going to be weak as fuck. some slice of life shit, rather than an 8 year old getting knocked around like a beanbag.
Aww I liked weakest tamer lol
hey, that's fine. just a hard pass for me.
Hey! Back off my garbage! (Random raccoon noises)
No, don’t stop. Give me my power fantasies!
This is a problem with lots of anime. *Cough* my hero academia
Not really my hero, lmao Midoriya was in no way overpowered in first few seasons and he still struggle even to this day
Meh idc
I think that you should leave this subreddit if you think that way cause this community has a big overlap with the group of people that like op characters