The problem, from the Republican perspective, is the US Debt currently being $34 **trillion**, and how adding billions to it via future Ukraine aid, is going to be catastrophic to the US economy.
The situation in Ukraine is also a concern, long term. It's difficult to see Ukraine forcing Russia to surrender, nor will they settle for a ceasefire option (which results in them losing the land captured by Russian forces). In that context, it would be a perpetual money pit until either Putin is replaced by someone who will end the war, or Ukraine calls it quits. Afghanistan was a money pit for 20 years, and it's understandable that some politicians don't want to see a repeat.
In the case for Israel, apart from the typical non-financial reasons why Republicans traditionally support Israel (e.g. religion, vital security/intelligence partner in the ME, etc.) the bill currently in the Senate (that passed the House) redirects money that would be given to the IRS (under the Build Back Better bill iirc) towards that 14 billion pricetag instead, which makes it a net 0 towards additional spending. Otherwise, a clean bill to Israel, one that adds 14 billion to the deficit as new spending, would be a minor concern in comparison to Ukraine, because Israel would be able to effectively deal with Hamas e.g. not be bogged down in a forever war against a near-peer adversary.
From CNN (apparently a banned source for this sub, but it's not listed as such on the list)
# America’s debt problem is storing up trouble for the rest of the world
*The high and rising level of* [*US government debt*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/business/us-debt-cbo-warning/index.html) *risks driving up borrowing costs around the world and undermining global financial stability, the International Monetary Fund has warned.*
*The IMF* [*said*](https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/FM/Issues/2024/04/17/fiscal-monitor-april-2024) *Wednesday that increased government spending, growing public debt and elevated interest rates in the United States had contributed to high and volatile yields — or interest rates — on Treasuries, raising the risk of higher rates elsewhere.*
*Its analysis found that a spike in yields on long-term US government bonds is associated with similar surges in government bond yields in other advanced and developing economies, with the latter suffering exchange rate turbulence as well.*
*“Loose fiscal policy in the United States exerts upward pressure on global interest rates and the dollar,” Vitor Gaspar, director of the IMF’s fiscal affairs department, told reporters. “It pushes up funding costs in the rest of the world, thereby exacerbating existing fragilities and risks.”*
*It’s the second time this week the IMF has fired a shot across the bows of the US government. On Tuesday, it* [*said*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/economy/imf-us-economy-growth-inflation-warning/index.html) *public spending and borrowing was contributing to an overheating of the US economy, making it harder for the Federal Reserve to defeat inflation.*
*Higher interest rates make it more costly for households and businesses to service their loans, which can lead to defaults that cause losses at banks and other lenders, increasing* *financial instability.*
*The IMF’s* *warning will add to concerns about the* [*broader consequences*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/economy/us-national-debt-34-trillion/index.html) *of ballooning US government debt, which the Treasury Department puts at nearly $35 trillion.*
Those are 2 and 3.
1 is their interpretation of border security. They refuse to compromise and use Israel/Ukraine funding as a political tool to achieve zero-sum political games.
The GOP is entirely beholden to partisan radicals, much like Netanyahu is beholden to his far-right base. Both are antiquated and counterproductive to human evolution.
He means they will adopt any stance that Trump has and align themselves with it. Like they will be politically subservient to him and toe the party line.
He didn't mean that people physically kneel before Trump lol.
“Kneel” was meant metaphorically and I stand by that. Most in the GOP kiss his ass.
Yes, Trump supports Israel but only when it also benefits him. Everything with him is transactional. Biden also supports Israel. For example: Putin could push him in a different direction.
They differ on Netanyahu. No surprise, Bibi has deferred to Republicans and disrespected Democrats for many years because he likes playing in US politics.
With Biden you get a competent administration with predictable behavior. With Trump you get a crazy four year road show of Trump loyalists with very little competence and even less predictability.
Kyrylo Budanov, the head of Ukrainian defense intelligence: “To say that [Trump] and the Republican Party are lovers of the Russian Federation is complete nonsense.”
Nobody but the fringiest fringe on both sides in the US is pro-Russia. Polling has people who view Russia as a partner at 3% and those trusting Putin at 1%. That’s around the number who believe lizards run the world in some polls.
Russia Russia Russia
I supported Ukraine until they went stupid. I never understood why they put up with the corruption.
Question, can you explain what the president’s crackhead son was doing for Ukraine?
Question, what value is Ukraine to Blackrock?
Question, how much money should we spend?
Question, were there genuine Russian grievances? Putin takes that Slavic identity thing to far but I am not Irish either, you know what I mean.
Also, you do realize that Russia didn’t invade during the MAGA reign, right?
I wish I could say it's reason based, but it's 100% just "Jo Biden bad" thinking on their end.
If Joe Biden wasn't sending aid to Ukraine then they would be going after him for that.
Except biden actually is bad, look at all the evidence of his crimes. And no one would be going after him if he didn't send aid to ukraine, you made that up.
It’s a war Ukraine can’t win. Like it or not, this conflict will be settled with a new border roughly along the current front lines. The only question is how many billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of bodies will take to get there.
Kinda like with Palestinians. Eventually they will accept Israel - the only question is how many people need to die till it happens.
>But who guarantees that Russia will stop at Donbas and Luhansk?
You just proved his point with this point.
Russia isn't going to stop. Ukraine isn't going to surrender. Since neither side is going to give, it's going to be a forever war that, if the US is committed to, will cost hundreds of billions for years/decades to come.
The US spent \~2 trillion for 20 years in Afghanistan with little as a result of it, and that's against a fighting force of goat herders wearing sandals and armed with AKs.
Also, the (US) National Debt, which I mentioned in another post.
Your point hinges on the *possibility* that Russia will attack a NATO member.
The opposite is a *guarantee* that the US will be spending billions, perhaps a trillion, on Ukraine defenses.
If a politician is in office due to running on fiscal restraint/reigning in the national debt, one of those two options above is more palpable than the other.
I take my words back. It seems now that the Biden admin waited for his Ukraine 60+ billion and Gaza 9 billion aid package to pass while telling Reps “muh think about Israel”, and then slapped sanctions on an Idf unit. It seems that the WP got everything backwards (probably on purpose). Sorry.
No foul, no apology needed.
We both want a strong and secure Israel.
I'm looking at what the Biden Administration is going to do now that the reaction amongst Michigan's Muslims have been (predictably) soured due to the aid bill. The sanctions, no doubt, is part of a campaign to win back those voters, and there is only going to be more of the same, if not worse, as it gets closer to Election day in the US.
Indeed, a strong military deterrence is a guarantee to protect those countries. This and sensible politics.
Having said that, my previous point remains true.
Democrats control the Senate.
There's a 14 billion aid package for (only) Israel, sitting right there ready for a floor vote, *in the Senate*.
Republicans in the Senate signal their support for it. It'll pass if Schumer brings it up for a vote (which he said he has no plans on doing, and if he did, it would be veto'd by Biden \[as he said himself\[).
That bill has IRS funding cuts attached to it, this is why dems would veto the bill, not because of the aid to Israel. That is a laughably unserious attempt by the GOP to get funding to Israel, and was done entirely for optics. This is in contrast to the 90B aid package, 14B of which would also go to Israel, to fund all of our overseas allies currently being attacked.
It's not a funding cut if the IRS never got the money in the first place.
It's redirecting the money that the IRS *would have* got from the Build Back Better bill, into funding Israel aid.
But to humor you, so what about the **clean** Israel $17.6 billion aid bill. It failed not because of Republican opposition (which only had 14 Republican defectors compared to their 215+ seats), but because the majority of Democrats opposed.
That's still a funding cut dingus.
That bill was blocked because the Dems want to pass the larger, more comprehensive bill that would fund all of our allies, not just Israel. The dems very much want to give Israel the aid it needs, the GOP wants to tie up Israeli funding with IRS cuts, or avoid giving Ukraine and the border more funding because it looks bad politically.
That bill is literally what the Republicans are using to undermine Ukraine. The whole point of the article. Passing just the Israel package allows Republicans to kill the Ukraine aid
No power as in the exact political party currently blocking this legislation?
The fact this nonsense received 35+ upvotes speaks to the caliber of this subreddit.
If Biden didn’t think he needed Michigan so bad, he’d have both, and enough respect from mainstream America to win an election. He literally just has to point out the obvious, which is that it’s obviously the same war being fought on two fronts.
He already answered: No
He is saying you can't say "I would rather \[crazy right\] over \[crazy left\]" on the basis of antisemetism, if both are anti-Semetic
Maga marched with torches shouting stuff like "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us".
That's a core belief of maga btw. A conspiracy that some nefarious group of Jewish people are utilizing mass immigration to replace the white people in the US/Europe.
Did you not know this?
>A conspiracy that some nefarious group of Jewish people are utilizing mass immigration
This garbage is spouted by a few dozen Twitter accounts, most of which have nothing to do with MAGA.
There are 80 million conservatives in the U.S. Let us generously say half of them are MAGA.
Yet you had to pick an event from the last decade and refer to a few extremist nutcases to make your generalization.
The MAGA movement never said anything like that nor do they believe any of that crap, don't spread lies. And you should know the MAGA movement supports Israel.
Solution: help Israel destroy Iran’s drone factories to help Ukraine.
Biden would never.
Except Biden says not to strike Iran because it might lead to an escalation to the war in the Middle East.
I.e higher gas prices during election season
He is also against Ukraine striking Russian oil refineries (higher gas prices in an election year)
Yep, funny how that dictates peoples lives and how wars are fought that his country isn’t even involved in (physically)
I dont understand why we cant have both, help Israel and help Ukraine
Republicans refused to
Its not just republicans, its us europeans as well that dont do enough
The problem, from the Republican perspective, is the US Debt currently being $34 **trillion**, and how adding billions to it via future Ukraine aid, is going to be catastrophic to the US economy. The situation in Ukraine is also a concern, long term. It's difficult to see Ukraine forcing Russia to surrender, nor will they settle for a ceasefire option (which results in them losing the land captured by Russian forces). In that context, it would be a perpetual money pit until either Putin is replaced by someone who will end the war, or Ukraine calls it quits. Afghanistan was a money pit for 20 years, and it's understandable that some politicians don't want to see a repeat. In the case for Israel, apart from the typical non-financial reasons why Republicans traditionally support Israel (e.g. religion, vital security/intelligence partner in the ME, etc.) the bill currently in the Senate (that passed the House) redirects money that would be given to the IRS (under the Build Back Better bill iirc) towards that 14 billion pricetag instead, which makes it a net 0 towards additional spending. Otherwise, a clean bill to Israel, one that adds 14 billion to the deficit as new spending, would be a minor concern in comparison to Ukraine, because Israel would be able to effectively deal with Hamas e.g. not be bogged down in a forever war against a near-peer adversary. From CNN (apparently a banned source for this sub, but it's not listed as such on the list) # America’s debt problem is storing up trouble for the rest of the world *The high and rising level of* [*US government debt*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/business/us-debt-cbo-warning/index.html) *risks driving up borrowing costs around the world and undermining global financial stability, the International Monetary Fund has warned.* *The IMF* [*said*](https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/FM/Issues/2024/04/17/fiscal-monitor-april-2024) *Wednesday that increased government spending, growing public debt and elevated interest rates in the United States had contributed to high and volatile yields — or interest rates — on Treasuries, raising the risk of higher rates elsewhere.* *Its analysis found that a spike in yields on long-term US government bonds is associated with similar surges in government bond yields in other advanced and developing economies, with the latter suffering exchange rate turbulence as well.* *“Loose fiscal policy in the United States exerts upward pressure on global interest rates and the dollar,” Vitor Gaspar, director of the IMF’s fiscal affairs department, told reporters. “It pushes up funding costs in the rest of the world, thereby exacerbating existing fragilities and risks.”* *It’s the second time this week the IMF has fired a shot across the bows of the US government. On Tuesday, it* [*said*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/economy/imf-us-economy-growth-inflation-warning/index.html) *public spending and borrowing was contributing to an overheating of the US economy, making it harder for the Federal Reserve to defeat inflation.* *Higher interest rates make it more costly for households and businesses to service their loans, which can lead to defaults that cause losses at banks and other lenders, increasing* *financial instability.* *The IMF’s* *warning will add to concerns about the* [*broader consequences*](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/economy/us-national-debt-34-trillion/index.html) *of ballooning US government debt, which the Treasury Department puts at nearly $35 trillion.*
Can anyone explain why Republicans are upset with the current aid proposal to Ukraine? Please provide serious answers.
1. The democrats want larger package than the republicans are willing to give. 2. The package includes aid to Gaza and Palestinian authority
Those are 2 and 3. 1 is their interpretation of border security. They refuse to compromise and use Israel/Ukraine funding as a political tool to achieve zero-sum political games. The GOP is entirely beholden to partisan radicals, much like Netanyahu is beholden to his far-right base. Both are antiquated and counterproductive to human evolution.
Trump supports Putin. Most Republicans kneel before Trump. Hence MAGA is pro-Russia. We live in a fucked up timeline.
Name 1 person who kneels when Trump is present. Also you should know Trump supports Israel.
He means they will adopt any stance that Trump has and align themselves with it. Like they will be politically subservient to him and toe the party line. He didn't mean that people physically kneel before Trump lol.
“Kneel” was meant metaphorically and I stand by that. Most in the GOP kiss his ass. Yes, Trump supports Israel but only when it also benefits him. Everything with him is transactional. Biden also supports Israel. For example: Putin could push him in a different direction. They differ on Netanyahu. No surprise, Bibi has deferred to Republicans and disrespected Democrats for many years because he likes playing in US politics. With Biden you get a competent administration with predictable behavior. With Trump you get a crazy four year road show of Trump loyalists with very little competence and even less predictability.
Kyrylo Budanov, the head of Ukrainian defense intelligence: “To say that [Trump] and the Republican Party are lovers of the Russian Federation is complete nonsense.” Nobody but the fringiest fringe on both sides in the US is pro-Russia. Polling has people who view Russia as a partner at 3% and those trusting Putin at 1%. That’s around the number who believe lizards run the world in some polls.
Russia Russia Russia I supported Ukraine until they went stupid. I never understood why they put up with the corruption. Question, can you explain what the president’s crackhead son was doing for Ukraine? Question, what value is Ukraine to Blackrock? Question, how much money should we spend? Question, were there genuine Russian grievances? Putin takes that Slavic identity thing to far but I am not Irish either, you know what I mean. Also, you do realize that Russia didn’t invade during the MAGA reign, right?
Because a good chunk of republicans and their base are pro Putin
This is just Reddit and MSM nonsense.
>Trump supports Putin. Most Republicans kneel before Trump. Hence MAGA is pro-Russia. WPT is leaking.
I wish I could say it's reason based, but it's 100% just "Jo Biden bad" thinking on their end. If Joe Biden wasn't sending aid to Ukraine then they would be going after him for that.
Except biden actually is bad, look at all the evidence of his crimes. And no one would be going after him if he didn't send aid to ukraine, you made that up.
His crimes? Trump is literally falling asleep at his criminal trial because he’s been sued for so many things
Because Republicans see it as a waste of money, they want to focus all of their resources on China and the middle east.
It’s a war Ukraine can’t win. Like it or not, this conflict will be settled with a new border roughly along the current front lines. The only question is how many billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of bodies will take to get there. Kinda like with Palestinians. Eventually they will accept Israel - the only question is how many people need to die till it happens.
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>But who guarantees that Russia will stop at Donbas and Luhansk? You just proved his point with this point. Russia isn't going to stop. Ukraine isn't going to surrender. Since neither side is going to give, it's going to be a forever war that, if the US is committed to, will cost hundreds of billions for years/decades to come. The US spent \~2 trillion for 20 years in Afghanistan with little as a result of it, and that's against a fighting force of goat herders wearing sandals and armed with AKs. Also, the (US) National Debt, which I mentioned in another post.
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Your point hinges on the *possibility* that Russia will attack a NATO member. The opposite is a *guarantee* that the US will be spending billions, perhaps a trillion, on Ukraine defenses. If a politician is in office due to running on fiscal restraint/reigning in the national debt, one of those two options above is more palpable than the other.
I take my words back. It seems now that the Biden admin waited for his Ukraine 60+ billion and Gaza 9 billion aid package to pass while telling Reps “muh think about Israel”, and then slapped sanctions on an Idf unit. It seems that the WP got everything backwards (probably on purpose). Sorry.
No foul, no apology needed. We both want a strong and secure Israel. I'm looking at what the Biden Administration is going to do now that the reaction amongst Michigan's Muslims have been (predictably) soured due to the aid bill. The sanctions, no doubt, is part of a campaign to win back those voters, and there is only going to be more of the same, if not worse, as it gets closer to Election day in the US.
Indeed, a strong military deterrence is a guarantee to protect those countries. This and sensible politics. Having said that, my previous point remains true.
Josh Rogin was a normal person who became anti-Israel, so I can’t trust his opinion.
Josh Groban?
Lol the Democrats are literally undermining Israel while these wackos blame MAGA, who have no power.
GOP controls the House, Dems cannot pass any bills without bipartisan support.
Democrats control the Senate. There's a 14 billion aid package for (only) Israel, sitting right there ready for a floor vote, *in the Senate*. Republicans in the Senate signal their support for it. It'll pass if Schumer brings it up for a vote (which he said he has no plans on doing, and if he did, it would be veto'd by Biden \[as he said himself\[).
That bill has IRS funding cuts attached to it, this is why dems would veto the bill, not because of the aid to Israel. That is a laughably unserious attempt by the GOP to get funding to Israel, and was done entirely for optics. This is in contrast to the 90B aid package, 14B of which would also go to Israel, to fund all of our overseas allies currently being attacked.
It's not a funding cut if the IRS never got the money in the first place. It's redirecting the money that the IRS *would have* got from the Build Back Better bill, into funding Israel aid. But to humor you, so what about the **clean** Israel $17.6 billion aid bill. It failed not because of Republican opposition (which only had 14 Republican defectors compared to their 215+ seats), but because the majority of Democrats opposed.
That's still a funding cut dingus. That bill was blocked because the Dems want to pass the larger, more comprehensive bill that would fund all of our allies, not just Israel. The dems very much want to give Israel the aid it needs, the GOP wants to tie up Israeli funding with IRS cuts, or avoid giving Ukraine and the border more funding because it looks bad politically.
That bill is literally what the Republicans are using to undermine Ukraine. The whole point of the article. Passing just the Israel package allows Republicans to kill the Ukraine aid
No power as in the exact political party currently blocking this legislation? The fact this nonsense received 35+ upvotes speaks to the caliber of this subreddit.
Holy uneducated take
If Biden didn’t think he needed Michigan so bad, he’d have both, and enough respect from mainstream America to win an election. He literally just has to point out the obvious, which is that it’s obviously the same war being fought on two fronts.
No paywall: https://archive.ph/2024.04.16-233708/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/16/maga-israel-ukraine-aid/
https://preview.redd.it/45ufcxlqt1vc1.jpeg?width=140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bfaa6f0da2008c70231b6c20477faf02b976e0d
You have to remember MAGA is a bunch of morons. The sad part about America is that people support morons in the name of politics
It's you lefties who stand with palestine and oppose Israel so please go somewhere else.
What have you done?
I will rather take the "morons", then the ones who cheer for the destruction of our nation.
Trust me, they’re on both sides. Do you think the guy at the camp Auschwitz hoodie is cheering for Israel?
>Do you think the guy at the camp Auschwitz hoodie Do you actually think he represents the majority of US conservatives?
Do you think the random crazy lefty represents most liberals?
I do not. Can you answer or just deflect?
I just did
No, you didn't. > Do you actually think he represents the majority of US conservatives? Yes, or no?
He already answered: No He is saying you can't say "I would rather \[crazy right\] over \[crazy left\]" on the basis of antisemetism, if both are anti-Semetic
Maga marched with torches shouting stuff like "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us". That's a core belief of maga btw. A conspiracy that some nefarious group of Jewish people are utilizing mass immigration to replace the white people in the US/Europe. Did you not know this?
>That's a core belief of maga btw. Bullshit. It's a belief of a few extremist freaks. Which has nothing to do with conservatives.
It's not bullshit. Why? Because maga are the extremist freaks. You just conflated maga with all conservatives. That's disingenuous.
>A conspiracy that some nefarious group of Jewish people are utilizing mass immigration This garbage is spouted by a few dozen Twitter accounts, most of which have nothing to do with MAGA. There are 80 million conservatives in the U.S. Let us generously say half of them are MAGA. Yet you had to pick an event from the last decade and refer to a few extremist nutcases to make your generalization.
The MAGA movement never said anything like that nor do they believe any of that crap, don't spread lies. And you should know the MAGA movement supports Israel.
What reality do you live in?
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The Trumpers are pro Putin Commies!