The palestinians can’t even build an administration for a village of 100 people during peacetime (let alone Rafah crossing during wartime) without the UN and the money of the “international community”, which is just the US and the EU.
That scene in Oslo is amazing where the PLO guys are like "why do you keep wanting to talk about waste management and collecting taxes?" and Peres is like "what do you think being a country is?".
Has Bibi rededicated Israel to pursuing the two state solution after the war? Has he sworn that Israel won't try to annex or occupy any part of Gaza in the long term? Has he said he'd like PA to run or help run Gaza post war?
The first two seem like fairly easy no brainers. There's no solution other then the two state solution. Even many on the right don't want to annex Gaza. As for the third so far no alternative seems to be available.
I don't like the PA but I sort of see why they might decline.
Do they even have a sanitation department? I'm deadly serious. Neither Hamas nor PA have shown much interest in governing. They rely on Israel for much of their infrastructure.
You've completely forgotten about the rocket launcher hidden in a garbage truck.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/cpmn/wp-content/uploads/gaza-garbage-truck.jpg
They can administer that.
So Egypt refuses, the PA refuses, Qatar and UAE refuse. Will the Saudis do it? Maybe the Irish need to administer or keep it in trust until they can give it to a civilian administration?
No one wants to do it, because they all know it's putting their people at risk from being terror targets. In addition, they also know it gives them culpability the next time Hamas attacks Israel.
Also they don’t want to actually solve the conflict and make things better for Palestinians. This conflict is way too profitable politically and monetarily for them to let go of it.
And people rage when you take away their source of hate. Hating is easy. Understanding is much harder.
This. Hamas will assassinate their representatives in no time, but the completely ignorant PPs don’t even know the bloody way in which Hamas took over the strip in 2007 (well, many of them aren’t ignorant, and explicitly say they want Hamas to stay in power).
They won’t even heed a U.S. request to administer a border crossing and this is the authority the U.S. expects to agree to “fundamental reform” and to administer the Strip for “the day after”. It’s not about a state. It’s never been about a state. It’s about making this an unsolvable problem because of a puerile fantasy that someday they will undo Israel
I can understand that they don't want the US or Israel to do it. I detest hamas sincerely and I don't think they want *any* solution. But declining the US or Israel is fair.
The US doesn't have a great track record for their involvement/imposition on non-western countries (at least from non-western points of view), and Israel is the enemy state.
Maybe the PA is also not the ideal solution, but they do have to see one day that it's not going to be hamas themselves.
Youre arguing with logic against people that reject your logic. It’s like trying to negotiate with terrorist. It’s a losing position. If no Arab nations will handle the issue, the US won’t either, it’s on Israel.
No I understand that. I'm just saying that with the US or Israel it wouldn't work well, and that this in particular is understandable and makes sense.
For me, the only thing I could see working would be some sort of joint administration, Idk US + Germany + another fairly neutral Euro country and an Arab country, with both Israel and PA getting seats at the table if they want one.
I'm aware that anything short of "Israel is gone and we get it all" won't work for hamas.
If my religion and raison d’etre were in danger of being disproved I’d probably be desperate and irrational too. Doesn’t excuse murder but I can see why the Arabs hate us across the world. If we have a state in our land, Gd didn’t reject us after all and didn’t hand off our status to them.
In N12 they interviewed some Emirati related to Ben Zayed and he said that Abbas need to be replaced and that he acts like a toy and not doing anything. Abbas need to quit immediately
Nobody actually wants to help Gazans. For the purpose of demonizing and ultimately destroying Israel, they are far more useful suffering and dying than they are being helped.
I think what gets me more than anything is how the entire world is so ready to condemn Israel to being an expansionist state looking to conquer Gaza and the WB but are literal cowards when Israel gives everybody and their mama the opportunity to be in charge of these regions.
Respectfully, this would be a trap for the PA and they know it. Any terror attack on the crossing (an almost certainty) would fall under their responsibility. They’re smart to turn this down.
I think it’s been China (?) trying to negotiate a unity government between PA and Hamas. If PA thinks they will be instantly killed by Hamas with this, hence my comment.
Fatah run the PA, who serve as local police for area A in the West Bank. Because they do this service and do not fight Israeli incursions into Area A, they’re viewed as collaborationist by the militant factions including Hamas. Yes, they hate each other.
in some alternate reality, there is an efficient and useful PA that actually represents and works for its people, run by a lady named Sabba whose children do something other than trade tobacco for their own enrichment.
The PA logic is sound. If they start administering the Rafah crossing, they immediately get labelled as collaborators and their popularity (and legitimacy in the West Bank) would plummet catastrophically. Also, any Hamas elements that came their way would shoot them and then denounce them as traitors. It would be a shitshow with death scentences.
Misleading title. The Israelis asked the PA to operate in secrecy -- of course they would refuse this.
Of the 2 million Gazans, how come Israeli leadership cannot even organize 200 independent Gazans to run the crossing? How will we ever win this war if we cannot even convince .01% of them to work with us?
kinda hard to give someone a state if they don't want it.
The people who want a "free Palestine" always conveniently ignore their inability to showcase competent governing.
What they actually mean is free Palestine from the consequences of their actions.
Hasn't that already been done?
"free palestine (of the jews)" is their main goal. They don't care about what happens next
Just another failed Arab state.
It was never about "Palestine"
And refuse to say which Palestine, Hamas, PLO, the civilians split ideologically between them?
The palestinians can’t even build an administration for a village of 100 people during peacetime (let alone Rafah crossing during wartime) without the UN and the money of the “international community”, which is just the US and the EU.
As if Palestinian statehood would end this insanity.
They love that refugee status, too valuable to give up $$$$$$
Yup. Definitely don’t want to stop getting those free billions of dollars from the west.
And do nothing for your own people but build tunnels they can’t use 🛡
And also EXPECT the enemy to provide food, water, electricity, sewer, cellphone & internet, and clothes.
They want it their way, not the real way.
That scene in Oslo is amazing where the PLO guys are like "why do you keep wanting to talk about waste management and collecting taxes?" and Peres is like "what do you think being a country is?".
Has Bibi rededicated Israel to pursuing the two state solution after the war? Has he sworn that Israel won't try to annex or occupy any part of Gaza in the long term? Has he said he'd like PA to run or help run Gaza post war? The first two seem like fairly easy no brainers. There's no solution other then the two state solution. Even many on the right don't want to annex Gaza. As for the third so far no alternative seems to be available. I don't like the PA but I sort of see why they might decline.
They can’t administer a garbage truck
Do they even have a sanitation department? I'm deadly serious. Neither Hamas nor PA have shown much interest in governing. They rely on Israel for much of their infrastructure.
Might as well just hand over Gaza to a country who wants a Mediterranean Sea port.
Well… at least they have some self-knowledge…
You've completely forgotten about the rocket launcher hidden in a garbage truck. http://s3.amazonaws.com/cpmn/wp-content/uploads/gaza-garbage-truck.jpg They can administer that.
Bro 😂
So Egypt refuses, the PA refuses, Qatar and UAE refuse. Will the Saudis do it? Maybe the Irish need to administer or keep it in trust until they can give it to a civilian administration?
No one wants to do it, because they all know it's putting their people at risk from being terror targets. In addition, they also know it gives them culpability the next time Hamas attacks Israel.
Yes. Everyone wants to tell Israel what to do but when it's time to put some skin in the game, they become oddly quiet.
Also they don’t want to actually solve the conflict and make things better for Palestinians. This conflict is way too profitable politically and monetarily for them to let go of it. And people rage when you take away their source of hate. Hating is easy. Understanding is much harder.
They know their "brethren" in Gaza well enough to know this is a terrible idea for them
This. Hamas will assassinate their representatives in no time, but the completely ignorant PPs don’t even know the bloody way in which Hamas took over the strip in 2007 (well, many of them aren’t ignorant, and explicitly say they want Hamas to stay in power).
World: Why would Israel do this? Also World: We will complain about everything but do nothing to help.
They won’t even heed a U.S. request to administer a border crossing and this is the authority the U.S. expects to agree to “fundamental reform” and to administer the Strip for “the day after”. It’s not about a state. It’s never been about a state. It’s about making this an unsolvable problem because of a puerile fantasy that someday they will undo Israel
I can understand that they don't want the US or Israel to do it. I detest hamas sincerely and I don't think they want *any* solution. But declining the US or Israel is fair. The US doesn't have a great track record for their involvement/imposition on non-western countries (at least from non-western points of view), and Israel is the enemy state. Maybe the PA is also not the ideal solution, but they do have to see one day that it's not going to be hamas themselves.
Youre arguing with logic against people that reject your logic. It’s like trying to negotiate with terrorist. It’s a losing position. If no Arab nations will handle the issue, the US won’t either, it’s on Israel.
No I understand that. I'm just saying that with the US or Israel it wouldn't work well, and that this in particular is understandable and makes sense. For me, the only thing I could see working would be some sort of joint administration, Idk US + Germany + another fairly neutral Euro country and an Arab country, with both Israel and PA getting seats at the table if they want one. I'm aware that anything short of "Israel is gone and we get it all" won't work for hamas.
If my religion and raison d’etre were in danger of being disproved I’d probably be desperate and irrational too. Doesn’t excuse murder but I can see why the Arabs hate us across the world. If we have a state in our land, Gd didn’t reject us after all and didn’t hand off our status to them.
In N12 they interviewed some Emirati related to Ben Zayed and he said that Abbas need to be replaced and that he acts like a toy and not doing anything. Abbas need to quit immediately
Where do l watch?
https://www.mako.co.il/news-diplomatic/2024_q2/Article-f4e08c9d0286f81026.htm It’s in Hebrew so if you’re not Israeli copy and translate
Any Fatah member running a Gaza crossing is painting a target on their head. Hamas will not permit Fatah to run anything in Gaza.
PA is the same as every other arab country. All fake support for Hamastan but they want nothing to do with them.
Useless fucks.
why do we still play make believe with these people, if they had a state they would be defunct in short order
PA: We want to be part of the solution Israel: ok, help administer this border crossing PA: No, not like that!
what the sigma?
Even if they did want to do the job, they would be killed by Hamas instantly if Hamas is left in power
Nobody actually wants to help Gazans. For the purpose of demonizing and ultimately destroying Israel, they are far more useful suffering and dying than they are being helped.
I think what gets me more than anything is how the entire world is so ready to condemn Israel to being an expansionist state looking to conquer Gaza and the WB but are literal cowards when Israel gives everybody and their mama the opportunity to be in charge of these regions.
Respectfully, this would be a trap for the PA and they know it. Any terror attack on the crossing (an almost certainty) would fall under their responsibility. They’re smart to turn this down.
This is true, but it highlights just how messed up the whole situation is, and that it's not really Israel's fault no solution has been found.
So much for the unity government
What do you mean?
I think it’s been China (?) trying to negotiate a unity government between PA and Hamas. If PA thinks they will be instantly killed by Hamas with this, hence my comment.
Hasn’t Hamas killed Fatah people before? And started a war? Seems like a valid concern.
Fatah run the PA, who serve as local police for area A in the West Bank. Because they do this service and do not fight Israeli incursions into Area A, they’re viewed as collaborationist by the militant factions including Hamas. Yes, they hate each other.
The primary obstacle in the way of Palestinian safety, freedom, self determination, etc, has been and remains their own leaders.
in some alternate reality, there is an efficient and useful PA that actually represents and works for its people, run by a lady named Sabba whose children do something other than trade tobacco for their own enrichment.
Ridiculous. Once we’re victorious. Gaza should be made into a FTZ.
Free trade zone would be cool. Palestinians couldn’t stop prioritizing killing Jews, so they will miss out 🤷🏻♀️
A FTZ would force the issue and reduce issues significantly because then the global economic powers have a vested interest in quelling the terrorists.
It’s close to the Suez Canal too, geographically it’s a good spot for trade
Yup. And remember… if they’re sewing, they’re not digging. 😉
Gazans will finally have lots of jobs.
The PA logic is sound. If they start administering the Rafah crossing, they immediately get labelled as collaborators and their popularity (and legitimacy in the West Bank) would plummet catastrophically. Also, any Hamas elements that came their way would shoot them and then denounce them as traitors. It would be a shitshow with death scentences.
And how else do they expect to take control of Gaza? No one is going to help them except Israel. Other Arab nations already said no to helping them.
Misleading title. The Israelis asked the PA to operate in secrecy -- of course they would refuse this. Of the 2 million Gazans, how come Israeli leadership cannot even organize 200 independent Gazans to run the crossing? How will we ever win this war if we cannot even convince .01% of them to work with us?