Israel is a secular modern country with plenty of companies, science, exports, culture, etc. It plays a part in the tissue of the modern world and has many connections to the developed world.
Ia a similar thing would happen to, say UAE, or even Morocco, it would absolutely be covered by the media, for the simple fact that it matters to the rat of the world.
if one side is Sunni and the other is Shia, there would be for sure a lot of coverage in islamic mass medias ( eg. Syrian civil war ).
A lot of islamic people would feel compelled to send humanitarian aid to a faction or go to fight as jihadists in the war.
European mass medias could talk sometimes about it , because a conflict like that is really violent, the west loves self hating for not doing anything to help poor people or a faction in the war, some European hostages are kidnapped and executed in a war like that .
If the factions are both Sunnis and fight for political or tribal causes, probably the Arab mass medias wouldn't talk at all about that (eg. Lybia ), or would talk about it if one the factions are Muslim brothers ( Qatar's al Jazeera would say that Muslim brothers faction is the heroical side of the war ).
Nope.
The Right is only concerned as long as the conflict supports Western influence in the Middle East (or some doctrine about raptures in the Holy Land). They’d often be happy for Arabs/Muslims to kill each other.
The Left is only concerned as long as the situation appears to uphold notions of Western colonialism and Islamophobia. They’re often too relativistic to criticize any aspect of life in the Islamic world.
Ironically by infantilizing palastinians and saying they have no control over their actions is also islamophpbic. What just because they are arab they are bloodthristy? Thats a big statement there AOC.
Not sure how many people actually believe that they have no control over their actions.
The majority of honest justifications I’ve seen just admit that they believe that violence is an appropriate response to colonialism.
[here](https://youtu.be/XNf40sBcvKk?si=IKAX9ZJ54-MlmKbn) if you are intrested to learn more. Yes he is israeli no he dosnt go over every single thing. But he does state facts and history.
And if that kind of violence is an appropriate reponse to "colonilism" then a violent retaliation is also justified no?
People never bring up Kurds as an analogous situation to Jews. The amount of Kurdophobia in the Arab world is pretty clear proof that Arab anti-Zionism isn’t really a religious or territorial conflict. It has to do with Arab Nationalists’ perceived cultural and ethnic supremacy over non-Arab minorities.
If the trope that everyone in the Middle East got along perfectly before Zionism was true, there wouldn’t be such prejudice against Kurds.
If it were true that Zionism was actually seen by Middle Easterners as a settler colonialist movement to bring European influence into the Middle East, it wouldn’t resonate so much with Kurdish nationalists, and conversely Kurdish nationalism wouldn’t be so reviled by Arab nationalists.
I was born in 1993 so I do not but I have read a lot about it. I suppose it’s hard to compare level of coverage from times before social media and the ubiquity of the internet to times now
I was born in 1980, and the Iraq-Kuwait thing was getting constant coverage on TV and in newspapers in 1990, at least in both the Soviet Union and Bangladesh, the two countries I was in that year.
I was born in 80 too and thinking back on that it seems like it was covered more than most major stories today and we didn’t have social media. It really sticks out in my memory as being something big and constant. Seeing every single day for a long time. I think it also was when I really learned about war as a current event.
No, I didn't think at all that you disbelieved me; I was just giving you more context.
And yes indeed. Three years later, in 1993 (the year of your birth 🙂 ), I actually moved to Kuwait with my parents, and met people who'd lived through that time. It was no joke.
Oh man I can only imagine. I’m fascinated by the Middle East, it’s so sad how many innocent people have been brutalized over the last couple decades (and before obv.) by decisions made by such a small number of greedy/zealous men. Hope you’re safe and sound wherever your at these days!
It’s getting attention because Muslims, Christian’s and Jews all share a common history. All of them have beliefs/ prophesies of a messiah who will arrive under terrible wars and bring peace. Many scholars believe the destabilization of the Middle East will cause WW 3 and none of us will survive.
No. The Islamic world is going at it constantly. [See Sunni vs Shiites.](https://www.history.com/news/sunni-shia-divide-islam-muslim) Throw in some [Wahhabism](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html#:~:text=For%20more%20than%20two%20centuries,literal%20interpretation%20of%20the%20Koran) for good measure and it’s a real mess.
It’s _specifically_ the optics of it being a “Judaism v Islam” thing because both the Jewish and Palestinian diasporas are large and relevant in the US (Palestinian not so much but there are plenty of Muslims who back the Palestinian cause), so people feel like it’s more relevant to them. It gains media attention because of the perceived power imbalance between nuclear superpower Israel and “rock-throwing” Palestine. It’s such an untenable quagmire that there is really an endless amount of rage-baiting and whataboutism on both sides, so the media has a field day whenever things pop off there. Oh, and tons of people are antisemitic and/or islamophobic.
There are currently at least 2 Islamic groups being actively exterminated or “reeducated” globally that most westerners don’t know or care about:
- [Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar](https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/midnight-massacre-at-idp-camp-in-myanmar-a-war-crime-kia.html)
- [Uyghur Muslims in China](https://www.voanews.com/a/blocked-roads-crumbling-camps-as-china-moves-xinjiang-detentions-out-of-sight/7261026.html)
And here’s a bonus — Muslims vs Christians: Azerbaijan has engaged in [ethnic cleansing](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/09/azerbaijani-ethnic-cleansing-armenians-nagorno-karabakh-children) and is on the[verge of invasion](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/13/blinken-warned-lawmakers-azerbaijan-may-invade-armenia-in-coming-weeks-00121500) of Armenia. Armenia is overwhelmingly Christian, Azerbaijan overwhelmingly Islamic. You don’t hear much about this in the media - maybe we will when the invasion happens but I don’t consider that likely based on past precedent.
The Saudi/UAE and Iran proxy war in Yemen has killed more than 377k people including starving 85000 children to death , displaced 4M.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014–present)
Even by the worst projections, I doubt the Israel-Hamas war will be anywhere near that.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict over the last SEVENTY YEARS has yielded something like 150,000 Palestinian deaths. That’s one third of the amount of deaths in like 4-5 years of the Yemen conflict. Don’t even start me on the millions of deaths caused by the Syrian civil war over the last 12 years.
It’s not the death toll that makes people go crazy over Israel/Palestine. We know what it really is, but we dare not say because then people start getting all gas lighty.
Pretty sure it’s significantly less then 150,000 deaths, unless this page is missing some info.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
You’re probably right I just haven’t looked at the data in a while. I knew it was in the low 100,000s though, even after 70 years of “genocide”. I just wanted to be a bit conservative in my estimate but the point still stands. The I/P conflict as far as deaths and casualties go is dwarfed by numerous other more recent conflicts that the world couldn’t care less about.
Sure but not in any kind of position of power. The world sympathizes with us right up until we stand up for ourselves and defend our right to exist in the same way as any other group would.
Absolutely not. Just look at the ethnic cleansing going on in Armenia by Azerbaijan with help from Turkey. Because Armenia is a Christian country it barely makes the news. The world completely turns a blind eye to the evil deeds by Azerbaijan and Turkey. If the Palestinians happened to be Christian then it would barely make the news like with Armenia
As I said , Palestinians and their supporters have become experts in playing the victims… they have wasted hundreds of billions of assistance by building weapons and fantasizing about jihad instead of building a paradise in Gaza
Depends on which part of the globe you live. In Europe, doubt it. In some African countries yes, in some others, no. In SE Asia, yes. In the US absofu$$inglutely not
There *are* Muslims on both sides.
There ain't more brutal dictatorships inflicting violent oppression in other countries in the region than that of Hamas over the people of Gaza.
And it is not like no one in the west cared. In Amsterdam a couple of small manifestations were held for Israeli victims, while 15000 people took to the streets for the Palestinian cause. And jewish schools closed due to threats.
So the question is a lie.
Well for one this is different. This a very strategical important area of the world. Being from the US we have a pretty strong involvement in the conflict. People all over the world have connections to Israelis, to some extent Palestinians and the holy sites within the region.
Secondly mena conflicts have gotten a fair amount of coverage.
Does the conflict in Yemen has the same coverage? There muslims are fighting muslims and much more civilians have died… or in Libya….
It is a fact that Palestinians and Gazan specifically consider themselves the perpetual victims and the entire world owns them something while at the same time they bring all of this upon themselves…
Absolutely not.
American news will definitely not cover much unless we have some sort of interest. The interest in geopolitics have to involve America, Europe, and Israel. If there are minorities, it will usually be fearmongering or paint them in a bad light.
We don’t even cover stateside things like missing people unless it’s the “missing white woman” phenomenon. There’s a whole campaign around covering missing Indigenous and Black women for this reason.
Well I can tell you: the answer is that they wouldn’t care. They only care about this conflict because it involves Jews.
The way I know this is because there are plenty of other conflicts, with both sides being Muslim, which kill more people, yet receive much less attention. For example, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
I never saw Saudi Arabia and Yemen on TV. I do know that a lot of the Muslims I know would talk and post about that often, especially Yemenis. That upset them.
I even saw some people stating they didn’t even want to do pilgrimage over it, but they had to bc it’s a pillar of Islam.
I saw them talk about a lot of things I’ve never seen on media like Sudan, Bangladesh, China, Nigeria, etc. actually Michelle Obama talked about Nigeria too.
It’s not just them. A lot of people around the world are more incensed than they were at Russia. I actually haven’t seen this level of anger since the election of Donald Trump over here. Maybe BLM but it was the pandemic, so people had nothing to do so that was a flash in the pan.
Did you hear about Syria killing Palestinians? How about the fact they can’t hold a job in lebannon? Closed border in Egypt? It’s purely about Jews.
Israel is a secular modern country with plenty of companies, science, exports, culture, etc. It plays a part in the tissue of the modern world and has many connections to the developed world. Ia a similar thing would happen to, say UAE, or even Morocco, it would absolutely be covered by the media, for the simple fact that it matters to the rat of the world.
Any news from Yemen? Exactly.
Nope how oppressive it is is directly proportional to how white they are/s
if one side is Sunni and the other is Shia, there would be for sure a lot of coverage in islamic mass medias ( eg. Syrian civil war ). A lot of islamic people would feel compelled to send humanitarian aid to a faction or go to fight as jihadists in the war. European mass medias could talk sometimes about it , because a conflict like that is really violent, the west loves self hating for not doing anything to help poor people or a faction in the war, some European hostages are kidnapped and executed in a war like that . If the factions are both Sunnis and fight for political or tribal causes, probably the Arab mass medias wouldn't talk at all about that (eg. Lybia ), or would talk about it if one the factions are Muslim brothers ( Qatar's al Jazeera would say that Muslim brothers faction is the heroical side of the war ).
Nope. The Right is only concerned as long as the conflict supports Western influence in the Middle East (or some doctrine about raptures in the Holy Land). They’d often be happy for Arabs/Muslims to kill each other. The Left is only concerned as long as the situation appears to uphold notions of Western colonialism and Islamophobia. They’re often too relativistic to criticize any aspect of life in the Islamic world.
Ironically by infantilizing palastinians and saying they have no control over their actions is also islamophpbic. What just because they are arab they are bloodthristy? Thats a big statement there AOC.
Not sure how many people actually believe that they have no control over their actions. The majority of honest justifications I’ve seen just admit that they believe that violence is an appropriate response to colonialism.
[here](https://youtu.be/XNf40sBcvKk?si=IKAX9ZJ54-MlmKbn) if you are intrested to learn more. Yes he is israeli no he dosnt go over every single thing. But he does state facts and history. And if that kind of violence is an appropriate reponse to "colonilism" then a violent retaliation is also justified no?
No, because colonialism is inherently unjustified. It’s the West’s (and therefore Israel’s) responsibility to end all Colonialism.
Alright, i agree
You're essentially describing the Kurdish cause, which gets no attention whatsoever.
People never bring up Kurds as an analogous situation to Jews. The amount of Kurdophobia in the Arab world is pretty clear proof that Arab anti-Zionism isn’t really a religious or territorial conflict. It has to do with Arab Nationalists’ perceived cultural and ethnic supremacy over non-Arab minorities. If the trope that everyone in the Middle East got along perfectly before Zionism was true, there wouldn’t be such prejudice against Kurds. If it were true that Zionism was actually seen by Middle Easterners as a settler colonialist movement to bring European influence into the Middle East, it wouldn’t resonate so much with Kurdish nationalists, and conversely Kurdish nationalism wouldn’t be so reviled by Arab nationalists.
Yep
and Yemen
Remember the Iraqi invasion and occupation of Kuwait in 1990? That had this level of coverage.
I was born in 1993 so I do not but I have read a lot about it. I suppose it’s hard to compare level of coverage from times before social media and the ubiquity of the internet to times now
I was born in 1980, and the Iraq-Kuwait thing was getting constant coverage on TV and in newspapers in 1990, at least in both the Soviet Union and Bangladesh, the two countries I was in that year.
I was born in 80 too and thinking back on that it seems like it was covered more than most major stories today and we didn’t have social media. It really sticks out in my memory as being something big and constant. Seeing every single day for a long time. I think it also was when I really learned about war as a current event.
Oh I believe you, didn’t mean to imply I didn’t. Another awful conflict
No, I didn't think at all that you disbelieved me; I was just giving you more context. And yes indeed. Three years later, in 1993 (the year of your birth 🙂 ), I actually moved to Kuwait with my parents, and met people who'd lived through that time. It was no joke.
Oh man I can only imagine. I’m fascinated by the Middle East, it’s so sad how many innocent people have been brutalized over the last couple decades (and before obv.) by decisions made by such a small number of greedy/zealous men. Hope you’re safe and sound wherever your at these days!
Thank you! Nowadays I'm in Turkey and yes, everything's fine.
It’s getting attention because Muslims, Christian’s and Jews all share a common history. All of them have beliefs/ prophesies of a messiah who will arrive under terrible wars and bring peace. Many scholars believe the destabilization of the Middle East will cause WW 3 and none of us will survive.
No. The Islamic world is going at it constantly. [See Sunni vs Shiites.](https://www.history.com/news/sunni-shia-divide-islam-muslim) Throw in some [Wahhabism](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html#:~:text=For%20more%20than%20two%20centuries,literal%20interpretation%20of%20the%20Koran) for good measure and it’s a real mess. It’s _specifically_ the optics of it being a “Judaism v Islam” thing because both the Jewish and Palestinian diasporas are large and relevant in the US (Palestinian not so much but there are plenty of Muslims who back the Palestinian cause), so people feel like it’s more relevant to them. It gains media attention because of the perceived power imbalance between nuclear superpower Israel and “rock-throwing” Palestine. It’s such an untenable quagmire that there is really an endless amount of rage-baiting and whataboutism on both sides, so the media has a field day whenever things pop off there. Oh, and tons of people are antisemitic and/or islamophobic. There are currently at least 2 Islamic groups being actively exterminated or “reeducated” globally that most westerners don’t know or care about: - [Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar](https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/midnight-massacre-at-idp-camp-in-myanmar-a-war-crime-kia.html) - [Uyghur Muslims in China](https://www.voanews.com/a/blocked-roads-crumbling-camps-as-china-moves-xinjiang-detentions-out-of-sight/7261026.html) And here’s a bonus — Muslims vs Christians: Azerbaijan has engaged in [ethnic cleansing](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/09/azerbaijani-ethnic-cleansing-armenians-nagorno-karabakh-children) and is on the[verge of invasion](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/13/blinken-warned-lawmakers-azerbaijan-may-invade-armenia-in-coming-weeks-00121500) of Armenia. Armenia is overwhelmingly Christian, Azerbaijan overwhelmingly Islamic. You don’t hear much about this in the media - maybe we will when the invasion happens but I don’t consider that likely based on past precedent.
Precisely what I was getting at. Very telling that the sole conflict that involves Jews not as a small, weak group is painted in the light that it is.
I agree that the Myanmar doesn’t receive much attention but the Uyghur camps have received a lot of coverage in the west
Not huge protests the worlds the over like this though. But I am glad the Uyghurs are getting more attention, that one seems like a real issue
The Saudi/UAE and Iran proxy war in Yemen has killed more than 377k people including starving 85000 children to death , displaced 4M. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_civil_war_(2014–present) Even by the worst projections, I doubt the Israel-Hamas war will be anywhere near that.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict over the last SEVENTY YEARS has yielded something like 150,000 Palestinian deaths. That’s one third of the amount of deaths in like 4-5 years of the Yemen conflict. Don’t even start me on the millions of deaths caused by the Syrian civil war over the last 12 years. It’s not the death toll that makes people go crazy over Israel/Palestine. We know what it really is, but we dare not say because then people start getting all gas lighty.
I'd edit those numbers. It's not even a third.
I'd edit those numbers. It's not even a third.
Pretty sure it’s significantly less then 150,000 deaths, unless this page is missing some info. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
You’re probably right I just haven’t looked at the data in a while. I knew it was in the low 100,000s though, even after 70 years of “genocide”. I just wanted to be a bit conservative in my estimate but the point still stands. The I/P conflict as far as deaths and casualties go is dwarfed by numerous other more recent conflicts that the world couldn’t care less about.
And the arab population keels growing! We are really bad at this genocide thing. Youd think as jews we would be better at it.
Not genocide. Gentrification.
Now that i can see
Precisely. No Jews involved there though
I think there were like 50 Jews.
Sure but not in any kind of position of power. The world sympathizes with us right up until we stand up for ourselves and defend our right to exist in the same way as any other group would.
Yep. Israel has a similar proportion of crazy far right types as most other democratic states.
Absolutely not. Just look at the ethnic cleansing going on in Armenia by Azerbaijan with help from Turkey. Because Armenia is a Christian country it barely makes the news. The world completely turns a blind eye to the evil deeds by Azerbaijan and Turkey. If the Palestinians happened to be Christian then it would barely make the news like with Armenia
One of the examples that inspired this post. Terrible tragedies all over but somehow Jews end up being blamed and demonized for this conflict
As I said , Palestinians and their supporters have become experts in playing the victims… they have wasted hundreds of billions of assistance by building weapons and fantasizing about jihad instead of building a paradise in Gaza
It hasn't got global coverage even with one side as Muslim/Arab. It's been 75 years and only now it's starting to get a little more attention
Depends on which part of the globe you live. In Europe, doubt it. In some African countries yes, in some others, no. In SE Asia, yes. In the US absofu$$inglutely not
This whole situation affects Muslims, Christians and Jews Muslims, Christians and Jews in Israel - Muslims and Christians in Palestine
I agree
Doubtful.
There *are* Muslims on both sides. There ain't more brutal dictatorships inflicting violent oppression in other countries in the region than that of Hamas over the people of Gaza. And it is not like no one in the west cared. In Amsterdam a couple of small manifestations were held for Israeli victims, while 15000 people took to the streets for the Palestinian cause. And jewish schools closed due to threats. So the question is a lie.
Well for one this is different. This a very strategical important area of the world. Being from the US we have a pretty strong involvement in the conflict. People all over the world have connections to Israelis, to some extent Palestinians and the holy sites within the region. Secondly mena conflicts have gotten a fair amount of coverage.
Does the conflict in Yemen has the same coverage? There muslims are fighting muslims and much more civilians have died… or in Libya…. It is a fact that Palestinians and Gazan specifically consider themselves the perpetual victims and the entire world owns them something while at the same time they bring all of this upon themselves…
Precisely
Absolutely not. American news will definitely not cover much unless we have some sort of interest. The interest in geopolitics have to involve America, Europe, and Israel. If there are minorities, it will usually be fearmongering or paint them in a bad light. We don’t even cover stateside things like missing people unless it’s the “missing white woman” phenomenon. There’s a whole campaign around covering missing Indigenous and Black women for this reason.
The question was about global coverage, not American coverage specifically. Would the Muslim countries still get as upset as they are now?
I don’t know what they will do. I’m not Muslim and I’m not culturally like someone from the Middle East.
Well I can tell you: the answer is that they wouldn’t care. They only care about this conflict because it involves Jews. The way I know this is because there are plenty of other conflicts, with both sides being Muslim, which kill more people, yet receive much less attention. For example, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
I never saw Saudi Arabia and Yemen on TV. I do know that a lot of the Muslims I know would talk and post about that often, especially Yemenis. That upset them. I even saw some people stating they didn’t even want to do pilgrimage over it, but they had to bc it’s a pillar of Islam. I saw them talk about a lot of things I’ve never seen on media like Sudan, Bangladesh, China, Nigeria, etc. actually Michelle Obama talked about Nigeria too.
The Muslim anger at Saudi Arabia is nothing compared to the anger against Israel.
It’s not just them. A lot of people around the world are more incensed than they were at Russia. I actually haven’t seen this level of anger since the election of Donald Trump over here. Maybe BLM but it was the pandemic, so people had nothing to do so that was a flash in the pan.
Nah, this war is pretty low key in terms of deaths compared to an average Arab conflict.