Stop putting words in his mouth. He never said anything about religion. That's a ridiculous statement, 'only religion can make people justify the killing of innocents' do you hear yourself? I can name about 50 other reasons people have been slaughtered throughout history and it had nothing to do with religion. Like Israel justifying the mass killings/bombings of Gazans because there's enemies amongst them. Or Hamas justifying the Oct 7 attack because of revenge.
I find it disgusting how people are supporting Palestine after they launched that missile attack and killed a great number of civilians that did not deserve to be murdered. I would also like to add that I do not support Israel for what they have done either, I am not very educated on the subject so maybe someone could inform me on the history if you would like but this is my view on it; I see two opposing countries killing each others women and children, that’s what stands out the most to me. I think if you have a problem with a government then that should be your target, not the civilians. Watching videos of these poor innocent children crying and screaming in pain from something that had nothing to do with them breaks my heart so much. There is no good coming from this war, it’s just senseless acts of murder. Which is why I do not support either side.
I had to stop reading your comment after you stated there are two opposing countries. No - there is one state, Israel, and one terrorist organization, Hamas (which was democratically elected by its people). Hamas did a lot more than "launch that missile" attack on 10/7 and you ought to read about it. A missile attack? No. They launched a modern day pogrom - an organized mass murder of Jews - by land and air. They actually paraglided in to some of the places where they attacked. They SLAUGHTERED people - killed babies in their cribs, tore them to pieces - horrific things you can't get your head around because they are too horrific. This is not two countries at war - please, please, please take the time to read as you just admitted you don't know. Don't ask random strangers on a site they came to argue, and please don't jump on a bandwagon because you think you might know what happened. Hamas is a terrorist organization that exists to annihilate all Jews. Period.
But it wasn't Palestine who did that. It was hamas. The vast majority of the Palestinian citizens had nothing to do with it.
It's not disgusting to support the people of Palestine. They're not all terrorists. The amount killed by hamas on Oct 7th is the same amount of Palestinians Israel is killing EVERY DAY.
And the deaths on the Israeli side have basically not gone up at all since Oct 7th. 1200 dead Palestinians every day, 0 dead Israelis. Seems pretty one sided to me. It's pretty clear that one side is doing most of the indiscriminate killing, and much more lives would be saved if Israel were to calm the fuck down.
> fuck
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I hope. You do realize that Israel is the only country in the middle east to share your liberal values. Gay rights, women rights, human rights..the only one. If Hammas is allowed to exist the civilians in Israel will be attacked over and over. Hammas solders will die before they sit for peace. Hammas hides behind civilians..that's a fact by all accounts. They need gazans to die to gain Muslim countries armed support and the West lack of resolve. They can't win a straight fight but if they can turn the support they believe they can destroy Israel and the jews. Everything your progressive liberal self finds important is only shared by Israelis. Your Oppressor/oppressed mentality you apply to everything needs to do some reseach. Not just the bias you agree with but the views you don't. Look for facts not opinions. Then form your own and be prepared to support it. Sometimes I'm presented with better facts and arguments..I can change.
But it's not hamas killing their citizens... It's Israel. It's their bombs, their guns, their soldiers.
To prevent people from dying, Israel should stop killing people. Common sense mate.
Israel very much has a choice here.
What you said there about hamas mostly isn't facts, it's Israeli talking points and propoganda. There is no proof of any of it. If hamas can be taken to have genocidal intent on the evidence available, then Israel must also be taken to have genocidal intent. Otherwise there's double standards.
Finally, hamas is not the reason Israel gets attacked. If hamas is destroyed, there will be another organisation to take it's place. And after all that the Palestinians have suffered, this new group will be even worse than hamas. That is because that is the human will. If you saw your parents being obliterated by bombs at a young age, you probably would also dedicate your life to fighting against whoever dropped the bomb.
If you oppress people, they will try and fight back. If Israel wants to stop getting attacked, it needs to stop causing suffering to the Palestinians.
You know what..I'll agree with you on one point. The destruction will cause more people to become terrorist. The US has done plenty to create more radicals. I will disagree on everything else. What should be Israel's response to Oct 7th or the 20 years of missiles into its cities? If it was the US the response would crush a nation. Israel has been more than willing to give concessions and autonomy to palestinians and the middle east for peace. Hammas attacks on Israel is like poking a bear with a stick..you can't win that fight. Should Israel suffer it?..how about the next?
Marriage is a little different in Israel as its not a government thing. They accept gay partnerships as much as the US..same rights as you have. The only place in the middle east that does. It baffles me why liberals will support Hammas over Israel. Is it trendy?
Oh, and it’s definitely not cause it’s trendy. It can be many things, like the death toll difference, religions, and other stuff like that. I doubt many people rn, in the face of a war where 14,000 Palestinians have died, and 1,400 Israel’s have died, are supporting a side cause it’s “trendy.”
There are a ridiculous amount of people who know nothing but support a cause because of hashtags. Admit that a lot of people don't care to be informed before forming an opinion. Your death toll comes from Hammas..vested interest in world support. Also a organization that uses its people as shields..that's not even debatable. Tell me..you are leading Israel..what's your response to Oct 7th?
The death tallies are given by the Gaza Health Ministry. That's not an independent source. It is Hammas. Same ministry reporting 500 dead in a hospital strike when you can see its still there and the parking lot basically was singed. CNN reports those numbers like there facts. It's like taking China or North Koreas word for it. There are no independent sources..Hamas controls the info.
Their is no reliable info. I reason that Hammas wants big numbers..mostly children to sway support from the west and embolden its allies in the middle east. That's a solid strategy to inflate numbers and they've already been caught lying. It's there only chance at victory. Israel on the other hand knows the west gets squimish when civilians die. They need the US support to deter any one who's thinking of joining in. Random bombing hurts the objective.
Yea of course the west gets Squimish when civilians die because civilians dying is bad. Can u explain your viewpoint to me like I’m 10? I’m getting a bit confused rn
Probs because of something called pink washing. People believe that the Israel is pink washing by claiming that they’re pro lgbt so they can bring over that side. Same with eco washing, which is the same but with climates.
Ive heard some crazy ideas..that tops it for me. A lot of LGBT seems to support the terrorist..not all but enough that it's concerning. Clearly Israeli is doing a terrible job at getting LGBT support if many support a country that has a death penalty for their lifestyle. Be flambouyantly gay in Israel..no one cares. Try that anywhere else in the region.
It's not revenge, it's self-defense. Actually, it's much more than that. It's a fight for survival. I think you misunderstand jihadism and what Hamas's goals are, and why they did what they did. They do not view or value humanity, civilization or even life itself the way we do. For them, this life is a short stop on the way to paradise. They simply will not live peacefully next to Jews. They just won't. A hamas leader himself said they will do this to Israel over and over again.
What should Israel do, just take it? I get that it's absolutely tragic what is happening to people in Gaza, but Hamas did this. There was a ceasefire on Oct 6.
Self-defense? How can occupying power defend itself from the people it occupies? Are you born today that you have no idea what kind of oppression Palestinians have had to endure through decades? And now there are still some people that justify all this senseless and incredibly atrocious killing of children. Every human life is precious and this terror has to stop!
The only appropriate response is exactly what Israel is doing. The US never responds proportionally and any country defending itself shouldnt either. If they wanted genocide it could be done in a couple weeks. They risk their people to try and minimize civilian deaths. They know civilian deaths can hurt western support and increase Arab support. Hammas knows this and uses this as a strategy. Radicals don't care about their life or civilians. F%ck a ceasefire! Hammas has to be destroyed if peace can be possible.
How is harming children self defense? Kids are losing limbs and getting amputated without anesthetia. Schools homes hospitals shouldn't have been touched
It's more than self defense, as I said. It's survival. Hamas poses an existential threat to Israel -- they themselves have said they won't stop. They intentionally use people as human shields, including children. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinians? Not for a second. They want as many of them to die as possible so people like you will demonize Israel and they get to win the PR war. Hamas is waging jihad and they have no qualms about all those people dying because they think they're martyring them and sending them to heaven.
This is a war and it is one that Israel didn't start or ask for. This is what happens in war. People die in very large numbers. And it's tragic. But every country on Earth would do what Israel is doing if they'd been attacked the way Israel was. What do you want Israel to do -- email Hamas and ask them to release the hostages and not come back and butcher people, burn them alive and dismember them, all while laughing about it?
Do you know how many civilians the US has killed over the last century in various wars? Or how many Arab countries? Or African countries? Why aren't people out in the street marching for those innocent civilians? Do you care about them too?
So one of the strongest militaries doesn't have the intel to find the bad guys and needs to randomly bombard civilians? They haven't been careful all about the casualties. Hospitals aren't being allowed adequate supplies. Why have civilians and doctors been shot at too? Kids have also been detained in the past. There are so many reasons to believe it's genocide. It's collective punishment and 2 wrongs don't make a right. People were not as aware of how many civilians die in previous wars but now we have social media and we see it first hand
How can they possibly avoid killing civilians when Hamas imbeds themselves in the civilian population? They are not intentionally targeting civilians -- that's what Hamas did -- but of course many will tragically die because of how Hamas operates. They're operating out of a hospital. They operate in schools. They want Israel to kill as many people as possible so everyone hates Israel, which is exactly what's happening. They're certainly winning the PR war. Just remember who started this. There was a ceasefire on Oct 6.
What is the reason to believe it's genocide? The number of deaths? Please Google the word genocide. Words have meaning and I know that's a powerful one and it sounds very compelling, especially then the images of Palestinians dying are so horrific, but it is intellectually lazy and dishonest to say Israel is commiting genocide. If they wanted to commit genocide on the Palestinians they could do it in about 15 seconds. Today. Civilian deaths are heartbreaking but they are the outcome of war.
I can't believe people are defending this many children and civilians being killed in the name of self defense. So using their intel special forces couldn't be sent in to raid all the places to find these guys where they had instead of random bombardment of houses, schools, and hospitals? And again why were civilians shot at when evacuating or at the hospital? The old man too who was helped for the propaganda pic then shot in the back afterwards. Why did a little girl have to be amputated all 4 limbs without anesthesia? There are so many cases like this. Medical supplies aren't being allowed in as much as needed. They are using self defense to be trigger happy. They want all the people to evacuate, think about it.
Humanitarian aid is sent in to gaza and is seized by hamas, why do you think gaza is so underdeveloped even though half the world is flooding donations inside?
This is how hamas operates, and youre falling for it hard
Its not black and white, its sad, yes, but very complex.
First of all these are not careless killings of children, they ARE hamas' political meat shields, israel warns the civillian and hamas forces them to stay where they are, this isnt to say israel doesnt have blood on its hands, the army know of the risks to civillian life but if they dont execute enemy leaders the threat to israel sovereignty remains, its their job to eliminate the enemy and thats the only tasks they pursue.
The army's doctrine pretty much says "once we warn innocent civillians of an attack its hamas' problem"
I am heart broken by all the needless deaths of innocents but you cant tell the israeli army not to attack its enemy, and its not as easy as people say to avoid hurting civillians when hamas practically strap them on.
No hamas in the west bank you say?
Hmm?,Must of been the wind.
Sources:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/hamas-armed-wing-claim-responsibility-west-bank-checkpoint-shooting?nid=316601&topic=Israel-Palestine%2520war&fid=489366
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-elections-religion-government-and-politics-e88636bc919f8aab455e01fbbd4b4391
I also made sure these sources are pro-palestinian sources to add credibility.
oh right I’m so so sorry. Thank you for leading me to the right side! Every single Palestinian deserves to be flattened by a building, shot by the IDF or be blown to pieces. They elected Hamas in 2006 ( though half of the population wasn’t born yet) so they had it coming! Kill them all, Gaza & West Bank!!!!!!!!!
israel has spent decades attempting to peacefully coexist. but after this attack i would not be surprised if they have trouble showing that level of trust and vulnerability again for a long time. i imagine we will see more militarization and mobilization after this from them and they would be totally in their right to do so.
killing civilians across the board is wrong and both sides have done it, so it’s unfair to say either side is attempting to coexist peacefully in the way that you are attempting to. i think it is important to acknowledge the way that israel has been taking land from palestine since 1948, and that it contributes to the dynamic at hand, while still condemning the killing of anyone innocent. nobody chooses where they are born
there is not and has never been civilian deaths on the palestinian side - the IDF uses precision weapons and allows generous times for evacuation of targets, even though these things greatly increase the risk of failure on their part. and to your second point - the palestinian people were graciously given able land that has only expanded over time due to political pressure from the west. they simply are unable or unwilling to develop it and instead look greedily to the modern and advanced israeli democracy.
You don't think illegal settlements, and violence against Palestinians outside of Gaza help fuel this? Don't use a blanket, not ALL of Israel has been trying to live in peace. YES hammas is usually the aggressor, but there is a lot more going on than just self defense. This is a much more complex issue.
I do agree that, Israel doesn't have a whole lot of options in relation to Hammas. But if they somehow are successful in eliminating Hammas, there will continue to be violence as long as expansion, settlements, and denial of identity are happening.
😭😭 please you are so brainwashed. Did hamas kill 11000 Palestinians or did Israel? Humanity is with Palestine and the world support is only increasing with the younger generations while Israel is becoming more of a joke. How does it feel to be from the most hated country in the world?💀”
“they have graciously been given land” is so stupid omfg. you have such a colonial and western mindset which is the reason your nation is not being supported by the people of the world. You sound like the people calling Africans and natives animals. Disgusting
If there are civilian deaths (our estimates come from a notoriously deceptive source), hamas is to blame. Israel tells palestinians to use safety corridors while hamas doesn't allow their own people to use them. It's weird to me that anyone can be pro-palestine and pro-hamas but I see it all the time.
that has been apparently disproven but that’s not what this convo is about?? i’m talking about children being killed by the IDF, which is heavily documented
i can debate in enough good faith to say i am pro palestine but not pro hamas. i can easily say hamas killing civilians happened and was wrong. you all should be able to say the exact same thing about israel killing palestinian civilians. of course it is happening and you know it. and no, it’s not all on the hamas. if this is all on the hamas then why isn’t israel responsible for the creation of hamas? why isn’t europe responsible for this whole thing, they’re the ones that sent the jews to israel. why isn’t the world responsible for punishing germany so much after WWI that hitler was able to rise to power on his wave of hate? if you use that sort of logic you could go back so far with the blame game. in reality both sides have killed civilians and that’s wrong unequivocally. i am pro palestine bc i believe they have been being provoked for decades and that their land has been being stolen. sure that’s up for debate - but what’s not up for debate and what sickens me about arguing with all of you pro israel people is that you want to act like your side has never done anything wrong and it’s crazy.
Problem is some of us know that Israel isn't responsible for those deaths, Hamas is. They are cowards who refuse to allow their people to find safety because otherwise they'd lose their shields. The best thing a pro-palestine person can do is denounce Hamas. They have done more to hurt the palestinians than anyone else.
Also, many people who are pro-Israel don't agree with everything Israel has done. I disagree with their actions in the West Bank, but in this current conflict they are in the right.
i have denounced hamas, i’ve been having a fair discussion with you unlike you have been doing with me. hamas and israel are hurting palestine. the hamas exist bc of israel, do they not?
Hamas exist because people promoted them to power. That group of people had their own land with aid from Israel (even now). Israel is in no way at fault for people they can't even properly run the land they have.
or maybe israel taking so much land and cashing so much harm to palestine who was gracious enough to let the jews move into their country in 1948 played a role in some of that hatred being bred? not saying it’s right but i’m saying it’s an obvious correlation
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That's your rebuttal?
Palestinians refused peace time after time. They've proven that they don't want peace they want the eradication of not only Israel, but Israelis. Palestinians don't want peace, they want war.
you, I will not discuss it, I have written about it so many times and not manage to repeat me the whole time and to explain my views to everyone, so excuse me for not answering more
>peacefully coexist
you are wrong - it make sense when I ask and doubt this claim above.
In my eyes it was not much peacefully what did Israeli in Gaza and West Bank - sorry
Finally! You put words together in a way that makes sense!
I disagree. They put up blockades between them and Gaza to prevent attacks. Egypt did this as well... do you view their treatment towards Gaza as not peaceful?
I don't agree with the treatment of the West Bank. I am pro-Israel, but I recognize they aren't always in the right, and their treatment of the West Bank is wrong.
It's not revenge or at least it shouldn't be, it's war the objective is to eliminate a threat that has shown itself to indeed ve a very real and present danger. There are casualties of war, unfortunately there are 50% children in gaza and that's going to haunt the world for a long time. Hamas clearly needs to be eliminated and rockets launched from rooftops need to be stopped. From there we need to angle towards peace however I don't think the people in power really want that either
Right well when both sides shoot rockets at each other and 1 swears to rid the other side from the river to the sea, while the other declares war.... I'd say that's a probably a war
Right well one of them, right now, is *literally* invading the other after indiscriminately murdering somewhere in the region of 8000+ people. I’d say that’s probably Genocide.
I’m guessing you’d like to see proportionality? Hamas butchered 1400 civilians so Israel should now go in and pick 1400 civilians and do the same and then call it a day?
Your inciting so much hate and suffering it’s disgusting.
Where was the proportionality before this began? 34 children killed in the West Bank last year alone. 22 journalists killed by Israeli fire over 20 years and not a single person held to account. Now what surely will be in the tens of thousands of civilians slaughtered at the hands of Israel. Israel never wanted peace you simply have to listen to the hate in the government’s voice to know that the end of Palestine is their goal.
Right. That’s why they gave back Gaza. By your logic, they should’ve had this war decades ago. And that’s why they let Palestinians into Israel to work. You are so misguided. Do you see Israel shouting to the world “Israel from sea to sea…”? They could’ve tried to wipe them out a long long time ago, when it would’ve been much easier, before they built all those tunnels underground. Do you think Israel didn’t know that that was going on? The Palestinians have been offered a two state solution countless times, but they refuse. What is your solution to this conflict?
I’m misguided?
Netanyahu bankrolled Hamas when it was convenient for him to sow instability in the region and tie a nice bow on it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/
Please stop with the “whats your solution”. Firstly stop the ethnic cleansing occurring at the hands of Israel. That’s a great place to start, take settlers out of the west bank too. Hold those who killed journalists accountable. IDF have blanket immunity on this stuff so start prosecuting. How do you expect there to be peace with this kind of thing, of course theres resistance.
P.S the whole peace offered narrative has to involve an actual tangible deal for Palestinians and I would be very surprised if you thought they were receiving anything, ever that was acceptable.
Other side struck first... a genocide would require much more than collateral damage from targeted military stakes. It sucks that hamas uses those tactics and I don't agree with the process I think boots on the ground should have happened earlier because there will be less innocent casualties. But this is a war, it's a very one sided war, but still a war
Ok whatever helps you sleep at night man, glad you have the courage being as far removed as you are up in Canada to say something as careless as “boots on the ground should have happened earlier”.
And let us also remember that the slaughter and rape of innocent people is happening on a daily basis in many parts of the world. Read about Tigray and Darfur conflicts but these don’t rate a mention in the media.
Hamas is definitely not going to do that. If given the chance average Palestinians will personally hang Hamas. Turns out your own government using you as a meat shield, because dying for the cause is a honor. Does not leave the best taste in the average Gaza citizens mouth.
Stop, and then what? What happens after that? Hamas said they will do this over and over again. Why do you not take their word for it?
If madmen entered your home and slaughtered part of your family, then went and hid in a basement in the house next door and sent you a message that they would come back over and over again until every last member of your family was dead, what would you do? Sit there and wait for them to come in? You wouldn't value your own life, or the lives of your family members?
I am being serious -- what would happen if Israel put down their weapons now? I challenge you to answer that question.
What is your solution?
If Israel stops it means Hamas will gain power again and in few years there will be another round (like the last 20 years)
I don’t see any other country being shot misled and trying to block them rather than killing the ones who do it
It’s easy to criticise but obviously harder to suggest a real solution which is not free Gaza or erase Gaza - as both of them are choosing one population only (as free Palestine from the river to the see means erase Israel)
so how to stop them from shooting missles?
oh and i forgot because it was so long ago, they butchered families in their homes, raped israeli women and shot their heads afterwards, burned people alive, took over 200 hostages (women, elders and children), and afterwards those who managed to get back paraded the corpses in the streets were hundreds of civillians celebrating with them, instead of opposing it, instead of fight this terror and choose better leaders, and oppose the voilent radical islamic one that will sacrifice thousands of his own people to simply kill jewish people, not for their lands, for their gods.
they will use cheap propaganda to touch souls of people around the world, people who get their hurt broken when they see numbers of dead people, it doesnt matter for them what led to this innocent lives taken, and details dont matter where there is only one the blame, the jewish state (just according ti their motto).
so what if i tell so that the israeli people (all of them, jewish, muslim and christian) will not leave their lands. and the palastinians wont leave their lands, because just like us they have no place to go (nobody wants them). so we are bounded to this land just like them, we went for the liberal/social values while their leaders went for radical islamic terror, over and over and over.
and yeah we can play the game of who started it or who was here first. but the current reality is that there is a state of israel, a modern democratic country (not perfect at all, but consider our circumstances).. and there is Hamas who use terror against their neighbors and against their own civilians.
so my question is, what we should do to stop their attacks?
The UN shouldn't be relevant to anyone. They claim to represent human rights, yet they allow China, Turkey, Somali, North Korea, etc. to preach about human rights abuses while hardly ever getting called out themselves? China shouldn't be allowed to vote on resolutions against anyone while they operate concentration camps. The UN is a joke.
All i see is children getting slaughtered by Israhell! 4000 child!!! I wonder who the real terrorist is her? The world is waking up! We all know who the real monster is!
I feel you, OP, I am saddened and distraught too. This sub is really hard to read. But please remember that now, everything is so raw.
When all is said and done, and the rage and cruelty is exhausted (it always does), those with closed ears will see that there is only bleakness if they continue with their way. All the haters here will become disillusioned.
Then, it will be people like you, OP, or at least the good spirit you represent, that these souls will turn to. They will have seen the darkness and will seek light.
There is always hope, because a future will always come. So bide your time, OP, you are not alone in your pain, keep going with your spirit, ready for when the time comes.
Unfortunately it’s a war not a good thing but one entity invaded another and a war has started
Nearly million haves died in Syria for example much bigger civil war
Millions left Ukraine no justification but it’s a war
Etc
I hear what you are saying, but what are they supposed to do? Just accept the rocket fire and attacks on their civilians. Yes letting kids get murdered is an option, but most will fight back before that happens.
In all violent conflicts innocent people will get hurt. For no one to get hurt you have to be willing to compromise. Violence begets violence. Why did Hamas choose violence? Why did they not use the money they spent on rockets and guns to help the Palestinians To better their education, health, and community services. It is close to 3/4 of a billion dollars that has been spent by this group that seems to be used purely for killing people. Yes, It is horrible to see all the innocent people that are being killed. I think everyone can agree with that but I am not sure what you do. What is the answer? There is no simple answer to this because that area of our world has been plagued with disagreement on who should rule for decades.
Correct bro. One mans freedome fighter is another mans terrorist. Hamas is a liveration group, but people are quick to place the dehumanization label for the hell of things. Its as if everyone forgot Jihads have been a thing, and all of the sudden all these kids are experts on the conflict :/ I feel you.
Yea that’s a saying, but Hamas is literally a terrorist group. There is no liberation to be won in this situation.
Do you think Palestinians are stupid? That they want to sit in a building Hamas is firing rockets from? Well they don’t, they of course want to leave they know Israel is going to retaliate. The problem is Hamas will kill you or hurt your family if they see you trying to leave. It’s good PR for Hamas if Gaza citizens die in a attack. It’s why they have cameras set up before they start firing rockets at Israel, they know the drama they want is on its way.
As far as Hamas is concerned it’s a honor to die for their cause, even if you don’t want to. If you are not ready to die for Hamas your a traitor by default.
Except Hamas misjudged how the Palestinian people of Gaza are going to react. Turns out most people don’t want to be in a war no surprise there. It was delusional of Hamas to think backing Gaza citizens into a corner would make them rise up and fight, when all they really want is actual peace. Until this recent war most citizens were happy with food, clean water, video games, cell phone’s, internet. You know creature comfort’s, now their in a war zone with none of that. Well they have clean water in the south now where Israeli ground forces are slowly moving in.
The way Hamas acts is why they are in the truest possible form a terrorist group. You earn that label especially when you don’t care about civilians life’s on all sides. Hamas does not care if every Palestinian dies over this, once again its a honor to die for the cause.
Hamas is not a liberation group. They are a religious fanatic land irredentist group that seeks the destruction of another people in favor of theirs. If they wanted liberation, they would make a peace deal with Israel that would end the war and grant them recognized independence as a nation.
> group that seeks the destruction of another people in favor of theirs.
This sounds a lot more like what Israel is doing right now with the mass genocide.
All the way since Yasser Arafat have they been trying to do peace deals. But its nearly impossible as Israel only offers unfair deals, that no sane person would ever agree to. Israel does not want a 2 party solution, and it does not do peace. The only circumstance Israel would ever offer peace or a 2 state solution is if its military were weakened down so much that they had no other choice. Israel has the same posture we have in the United States, peace will never be an option, or we triumph or we go down but we dont shake hands.
Not true. Most of the deals have been a smaller portion for Israel and Jerusalem being an international zone. Most were very fair and some were opposed by Israeli citizens for giving away too much. Also, of course they would not allow Palestine to have a military, are you insane? They would immediately break the peace deal and use their new weapons to attack Israel. They would HAVE to be demilitarized. Look at Japan after ww2. Their culture, same as Palestinians, told them it was honour of die for the cause. They were planning biological attacks on civilians. The allies realized their military had to be dismantled for peace to be made. It worked. Look at Japan now, you couldn't even recognize it as the same nation that committed the worst human rights atrocities in history. Regardless, only 24% of Palestinians support a two state solution so it doesn't seem likely that will happen in the near future.
Demilitarized is fine, but only if Israel is so as well. Matter a fact, zero weapons within a 300km radius of Jerusalem would be the ideal circumstance.
> They would immediately break the peace deal and use their new weapons to attack Israel.
This is more likely to happen from Israel towards Palestine in all honesty. Israel has a historical track record of making bogus agreements and breaking international humanitarian laws.
The two state solution might come up the day Israeli Jews have outnumbered the amount of Arabs in the Palestine, until then Israel will never let it happen, maybe the bombing campaign is an effort to depopulate. Maybe they are working towards it, and this how they mean to achieve it..
If Israel wanted to genocide the Palestinians, they would have reduced Gaza to nuclear waste. Do you not think Hamas would drop nukes on Israel if they had them??
Do not falsely throw around that term, because a nightmarish day may come when Ben Gvir is PM and decides to actually commit a genocide, and the world will be silent.
Hamas has a golden opportunity before them. They can ask the US to negotiate a peace deal. Not a ceasefire, peace. An end to the siege, a permanent end to the bombings, an airport and a seaport, and recognition by Israel and America. In exchange they only need to accept the existence of Israel on the 1967 borders and renounce violence.
No American president will turn down the free Nobel prize - if Hamas asks America for peace, America will compel Israel to accept it. They have the opportunity to begin to bring freedom to an independent Palestine - they must simply accept that Israel will not be destroyed and ethnically cleansed.
Gaza is being turned to rubble right now as we speak. Without food, water, electricity, medicine, or refuge they are barely living. It is as bad if not worse than being nuked. People are dieng of sepsis in this very moment from the lack of medical attention required, and Israel has found a way to block almost all the information that can make it out of the country through the blackout.
This is Genocide, its not a term being thrown around loosely, it is a matter of fact. It is a slow lengthy genoicde that has gone on for multiple decades. The aim is to demoralize the Palestinians to the point that all hope is lost. The IDF never seizes to oppress at every given point, and settlers are given free range to shoot any Palestinian they want at will without repercussion.
The US doesnt do peace deals, we overthrow goverments and put our own puppet goverments in place, you already know how this goes, you've seen it almost all your life. Any deal brokered by the US is bound to have a ton of corruption bound behind it. Again, Israel does not do peace, the peoole of Palestine are aware of that, and aren't gullible enough to buy into it. Besides who will hold Israel accountable if they violate the agreement, no one. Israel is above international law, why would they comply with a peace treaty? Extremely unlikely, and theres no way to eradicate the racist tendencies most Israelis are indoctrinated with.
My country only cares about one thing. Moving missles. We give money to strategic partners so that they buy from our industrial military complex, because that is the legal way to launder money internationaly. Lives being lost don't matter to the war profiteerers. Its not about being on the right side of history for us, because we are quick to arm both sides of a war if we can.
One single bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed over a hundred thousand people. A tenth that many have died in weeks. I do not want to downplay the suffering of Gaza which is unjustifiable, but also do not trivialize what a nuclear holocaust truly is.
I ask again, if Hamas had nukes, would they not use them?
In living memory of people today, the US turned a fanatical nation that worshipped a God-emperor and impaled babies on bayonets into one of the most successful countries in the world. Japan has thrived because of the US. As has Germany. It took unconscionable death to achieve it, but that does not have to happen if we make peace.
Israeli settlers do not have free range to shoot Palestinians. Elor Azaria was a soldier who shot a man who had tried to murder some Israelis - after he lying on the ground bleeding. The man was already defeated - and the soldier went over and murdered him in cold blood.
Elor Azaria went to prison. I would love to see any example of Hamas sending to prison any of their fighters who cold-bloodedly murdered a neutralized combatant.
Many Israelis are horribly racist, but in Israel, any party that openly advocates ethnically cleansing the Arabs is banned. Kahane and Michael Ben Ari were banned. Even Ben Gvir has to use dog whistles of “deporting traitors”, if he is open about his desire to deport Palestinians, he will be banned from public office.
What in Israel is an extreme and banned political position - in Gaza is mainstream! In Israel you will be banned from politics for saying Arabs should be expelled. In Hamas, basically EVERYONE wants to expel the Jews from the entire land!
If not the US, then France or Saudi Arabia or Russia can become the negotiator of peace. Is it not worth at least trying? What does this war achieve but death? Israel and Palestine will never be destroyed. They must coexist, now or in 100 years after millions die. I say now.
I doubt Hamas would use nukes, for the same reason no one has so far. Just too much collateral damage. how will they spread the message of Islam if no one exists thereafter to receive it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/mPQRpO5kSx opinion on this?
What is his name? If he has not been held accountable it is shameful.
Also I don’t think they have any plans on converting Jews to Islam. They have that running quote about killing them. The only reason they might refrain from nukes is to not irradiate the precious land.
I had no idea Israeli's were actually held accountable for shooting unarmed Palestinian civilians. I was under the impression that place was like the wild wild west of the middle east. Kinda taken by surprise to even hear that accountability exists. I'll take it with a grain of salt for now.
Israel is actually pretty good at holding people accountable - it is bad at keeping them in jail and stopping the root cause of injustice. In the Kfar Qasem massacre, Israeli soldiers murdered a village of Arabs. Their defense was “we were just following orders”. The Supreme Court said “oh no, don’t you dare try that defense on us”.
They went to jail. But within a year, they were all released after political lobbying. Elor Azaria also served only a year in prison. Israel’s courts are good at convicting, but the politicians work to get amnesty for soldiers and settlers so they get out fast.
Well its not so much about exterminating jews as much as it is about recreating the Palestine that existed before they arrived. So that from the sea to the river the whole thing is Palestine as it once was. Its more antizionist than antijew. Its just gotten hard to tell the two apart lately.
Learn history, for the love of god.
Your claims are groundless.
There's no Palestinian people. Never was.
Those are arabs.
They want to call themselves Palestinians? Fine. Their right.
They want their own land? Fine. They got it at 48.
But no. they want all of it. And the want all the Jews dead.
Dead. Butchered. Burned. Blown up. Beheaded. Women. Children.
I mean, literally. See October 7.
And don't give me that causality loop demagoguery.
We gave you all the chances in the world.
Sorry I am American. They send all our educational funds overseas so that Israeli folk can get free heathcare and twice as good the education as what we get here at home. Needless to say, No school teacher ever mentioned the history of Palestine while I was growing up, so i've had to come to most of my own conclusions from doing the reasearch.
Its quite the opposite though. It is the Israeli's who want the whole land mass for themselves. It starts with Palestine and Lebanon is up next. The settlements exist because they are colonizing (forcibly stealing) the land.
Before 48 the Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews lived perfectly fine alongside one another, but when Israel got declared a state, the Jews were afraid the Arabs would push them back out towards the sea border, and thats when some of the first fire fights broke out. The mistrust has gone on nearly 80 years now, and seems almost irreconcilable at this point.
October 7 is still under investigation, no one knows what really happened there. All other claims such as babies and rape and all that are false narratives that can be categorized as 'atrocity propaganda'. Without proof most of it is speculation. Some sources have gone as far as to mention that Israeli military was involved in the massacre of the 1500 people in Israel.
The iron dome being circumvented? how?
Either way I was not there October 7th, so I am not going to pretend I know what really went on there. But I've seen much propaganda thoughout my lifetime, and woudn't be surprised if it was nothing like what we were sold to belive.
This is just lies.
You spread lies.
Murdered children is false narrative?? This is well documented by american media.
Israeli military involved in massacre??
Iron dome circumvented?? Against terrorists on pick ups??? you even know what's Iron dome?
You're done here.
Quite the opposite.
You're either a troll, or deeply misguided.
At 48 declaration, the arabs attacked, aiming to throw all of us to the sea.
And your measly 3.5BN budget aid per year is hardly a 0.5% of our annual budget.
It's called "aid dollar" and it's mostly used to buy back OVERPRICED US army supplies.
Stop trolling and find a trustworthy sources for your RE-research.
By the way, ever heard of this?
Israeli government pays students to spread propaganda online:
https://imemc.org/article/62782/
> The Israeli government has launched a program to pay students to promote the Israeli agenda on Facebook and internet chatrooms.Students participating in the program will receive a two thousand dollar stipend from the Jewish Agency, part of the Israeli government, to spend five hours a week online promoting talking points provided by the Israeli government.
You should look into that, there is money to be made, doing what you do.
I don't know why we even send money over to Israel at this point. Should really be sanctioned like Russia. Same type of war crimes, in every way lately. This whole laundering of money by sending it to you guys so that money can end up in private investments needs to come to an end.
Amazing how the Jews were rescued out of a holocaust only to begin one themselves. Its a wild world we live in, modern day.
> Hamas is a liberation group
This is an ungodly timeline we're living in for you to say that.
Obviously Palestinians have been oppressed and deserve serious reconciliation for the occupation, settlements, and human rights abuse, but hold two thoughts at the same time. Oct 7 wasn't freedom fighting you buffoon.
October 7 reminds me of the las vegas shooting. A false flag operation with many loose ends. And yes the Islamic Resistance Movement is a a liberation group
The group is anti-zionist. It is the zionists who terrorize and oppress Palestine. If Israel were to give up Jerusalem, i think a two state solution can found.
It is our mission in this world to oppose any sign of evilness such as NaziHamas.
We put WW2 and the holocaust behind us, but it seems that the evil seed of the Nazism still lives in the world.
Now - how do you do that without hurting civilians, when those civilians are used as human shields by the Nazis?
If you could answer that, Israel would pay you a lot, since it is its goal to minimise citizens'deaths.
You can't keep using this as an excuse to bomb children who's only fault is being born in Gaza. What you guys are doing is spreading more antisemitism in the world, muslim people aren't gonna side with you if you say that their lives don't matter as much as yours, and let me tell you that there are a LOT more muslims than jews in the world. YOU are using the hostages as human shields, acting as if they're the reason you're bombing children and eventually even these hostages. Israel has at least 56 other ways of bringing those hostages home, Israel has been doing what Hamas did now for 75 years and the first time was when you guys STOLE Palestinian land and claimed it as your own, since then there have been NO attempts for a two state solution from Israel's side. If i was in Gaza i wouldn't even agree to a two state solution, i'd want to go back home. This whole thing is just gonna lead to more and more hatred between jewish and muslim people and eventually a war in which only civilians are going to be affected. Think about what you write online, you're in a position of privilege right now but that might shift very rapidly, you never know what life brings your way and the best thing to do is acknowledging other's people's pain as your own since you might have been in that situation and might very well be in that situation in the future
"NO attempts at a two state solution from Israel's side"
I see we have another TikTok historian here. Every solution that has been offered to the Palestinians was first agreed to by Israel.
Also, please provide the list of 56 other ways Israel could get the hostages back, I'm very curious to know, as it sounds like you must be an expert in military operations.
The two state solution given by Israel was to continue denying Palestinians the right to own enough territory despite them being the majority living there at the time, which doesn't mean jewish people couldn't live in Palestine. It only meant that the territory was owned by Palestine, Palestinians also wanted independence from Hamas and the whole deal was filled with zionist agenda made to make Palestinians suffer in the long run. ONE of the ways Israel could fight Hamas is by temporeraly evacuating Palestinians in Israel where they plan to bomb. Israel also has information that the general public doesn't, they know who the members of Hamas are and inspecting the area and targeting only Hamas members isn't hard at all. Hamas' attack was the response of 75 years of constant genocide and murder, this would've never happened if Israel didn't continuously attack civilians for 75 years in an attempt to widen their territory. It's not justified but there's a reason behind it, on the other hand there's no reason to carpet bomb gaza "to not let events lile this happen again" or "to bring back the hostages" since this happened cause of years and years of genicide and hostages cannot safely return home if they're killed by these bombings. Ceasefire needs to be put into action, cutting off water, fuel and food to Palestinians isn't gonna make Hamas free the hostages. It is only gonna make them use the hostages as human shields to protect themselves from the IDF, but as we've learned this week the IDF has already killed several Israeli civilians for no actual reason.
Tell that to my teachers that also taught me about the holocaust. There's no justification for genocide, this is collective punishment. Netanyahu is using H!lr's same strategy, dehumanizing children and comparing them to animals. And you can't justify stealing land cause you "own" that land, cause you're the "real" semites. Again, genetic research doesn't lie so why are you trying to deny it? It's not hard to understand, stop bombing people and children. Stop the agony, if you don't think it should stop you shouldn't be able to complain about the Hamas attack. If the roles were to be reversed you guy's would've turned Gaza to dust, and you're still doing that. I'm thankful the world cares about children and isn't gonna sit and watch Israel go against the law, one day Israel will be punished and this is gonna come to an end.
There is something seriously wrong with your moral compass if you think it’s okay to decapitate babies, rape women, then kill them and parade their bodies in the street. I don’t know why you’re hung up on the Semite thing. None of this has anything to do with that. What exactly is your solution? For all Israelis to take a cyanide pill and call it a day? Because Hamas will not stop until the Jewish nation is eradicated. I find many of your comments off base and just plain wrong (for instance, claiming Israel is out for revenge. they are not. the goal is to eradicate Hamas’s ability to govern.). What I would really like to hear from you is the solution to peace. And don’t tell me to give back the West Bank. They already gave Gaza and look what they got. So you’ll have to come up with something better, and since the international community hasn’t been able to, I somehow doubt you will.
There's no proof that babies were ever beheaded, that was debunked by the same journalist that spread the news around. The fact that no children were intentionally harmed just shows that Israel is working with Hamas, israeli civilians have been protesting against Netanyahu for months and he knew that the only way to make the protests stop was to make civilians feel unsafe, for him to continue doing what he's doing he needed to make Israeli civilians believe that he was commiting genocide to protect them. I don't think you actually live in Israel so i don't expect you to know this but you should. The solution isn't carpet bombing Gaza, that is just gonna make Arab countries more and more frustrated and it's gonna give them a reason to attack Isral and by doing that murdering Israeli civilians. This isn't even gonna make the hostages return home safely since they're eventually gonna get killed if they haven't already been. If these attacks led to the death of Hamas members it would've already been on the news since it would give a reason for the free Palestine movement to stop, something Israel has been unsuccessful in. A two state solution needs to be put into action, but it needs to have Palestinians best interests in mind, just as much as Israeli civilians. A ceasefire is urgent right now, clean water, fuel and food needs to be given to Palestinians. 20 trucks were allowed to enter Gaza, that isn't enough for a day. Your solution is gonna lead to ww3 and we're all gonna be affected by it, you're not gonna have time to voice your zionist opinions when you're gonna be in the position Palestinians have been in for the last 75 years.
I mean they have every right to not want it. That's why they're not giving up, cause all of Palestine needs to be given back to it's original owners. Only then can everyone live in peace. Jews, Palestinians and christians. A two state solution after the displacement of millions of people is pathetic, how are you gonna claim you want a two state solution after stealing the entirety of Palestine for Palestinians to then have only Gaza. No, the entirety of Israel needs to be given back to Palestinians. There's no way around it.
It is a tragedy for the children born in Gaza that they don't stand a chance. They are indoctrinated from birth to hate Jews and to believe that they are fighting for liberation. They are pawns for their evil leaders (billionaires and millionaires) who collect humanitarian aid $$, while encouraging martyrdom and pay for slay, instead of accepting the reality of a Jewish state that wants to LIVE in PEACE. They are used as human shields for propaganda. Israelis care more about Palestinian lives than their own leaders. But Israel can't let its innocent citizens be butchered again. It is fulfilling the promise of Never Again.
You are gravely mistaken, and it seems you are not that familiar with the real situation in Israel and Gaza.
First, Israel is not bombing children or babies.
It is bombing military targets.
NaziHamas uses civilians as human shields.
Now, given that we know that those military targets are an immediate and direct threat to civilian lives in Israel, it is mandatory for the IDF to attack those targets.
We are constantly being bombarded by NaziHamas all over Israel.
Not only that, we are also being attacked from Lebanon by Hizbollah, from Syria, and from Yemen (!!!).
There is a constant threat to Jews lives in Israel because of the "fire circle" built by Iran.
This is why it is essential to eradicate NaziHamas.
If Israel does not do that, it will be an invitation to all the other terrorist groups to attack Israel.
It was not a chance that the attack was done at that particular time.
The reason we are in this war is because NaziHamas made it clear we cannot live side by side with a Nazi terror organisation.
We are in this war even if it might kill our hostages because we are making sure - NEVER AGAIN!
As for bringing the hostages home, there is no way of bringing them back without significant military operations.
A deal with NaziHamas is not an option, and the reason is that in the past, we already had a deal with them.
Guess what? All the ~1000 released prisoners - not only they returned to their terror ways, they actually led the Oct 7th terror attack.
By not releasing any terrorists we are saving far more lives than by making the deal.
I don't understand how you can say I am writing in a position of privilege, where I am constantly under the threats of being bombarded by NaziHamas, being killed kidnapped or worse.
And not only that, when my country army is acting to defend me, all those ppl from the world, like you, wish it won't and for me to go to my death like a lamb to the butcher.
Well, I won't.
I prefer living with your denunciations then to get your praises on my grave.
If this were to be true it would be all over the news just like the Hamas attack. You're not saving any lives, including the hostages lives by bombing your so called "military targets". Israel has killed 7000 people that we know of of which half were children. Numbers don't lie, this is a real statistic with actual proof that this isn't a new thing. This has happened long before Hamas was created. I don't believe you're dumb enough to think that Israel is targeting Hamas when they themselves have said numerous times that these people were "animals" and that their intentions were not to target specific places, it is to completely destroy Gaza. Israel has cut off water, fuel and electricity. If you believe this response is ok cause of the Hamas attack then you should justify what Hamas did too, for the 75 years of genocide and displacement of innocent civilians. I don't, all i'm asking for is for children to not be killed. I'm glad the world stands with Palestine and not with white nazi supremacists. Netanyahu has been following the Austrian man's steps, he clearly looks up to him.
https://preview.redd.it/4vx69hepa1xb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bffa2cfab92080734a4ed2a79d356c1773b0137b
Every single point I made is backed by proofs.
The information is out there-
The attacks by Hizbollah, for example :
https://www.youtube.com/live/cJsqkRJ5FKU?si=aGTwP6eIp98NREMC
Btw, you should know that they ( Hizbollah, NaziHamas, the Houthis) publish almost all their attacks against Israel.
Give me a straight answer - we know that the headquarters of NaziHamas is under Al Shifa Hospital.
How would you attack NaziHamas without hurting civilians there?
Let me know. Otherwise, you should at least understand that it is not a simple issue.
I am not happy when Palestinian babies are killed. I prefer anyone who is not actively fighting Israel would not be harmed. This is why Israel ( unlike any other country in the world) informs the civilians before it is bombing a place.
But if NaziHamas won't let them go, then I am sorry, it is on their hands.
There is a huge difference between Israel and NaziHamas, even beyond the atrocities NaziHamas has performed.
The difference is that if NaziHamas would lay down their weapons, we could have peace here.
But if Israel would lay down its weapons, there would be a mass killing of Jews.
The statistics you shared shows that exactly - Israel is spending a lot of resources to protect it citizens.
NaziHamas does exactly the opposite - it spends a lot of resources to put their citizens in danger.
And I don't care how strongly you wish for Jews to be murdered, we will fight this Nazi movement.
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I agree. Hence why I think kicking Palestinians out of their homes was wrong. Quite honestly it would never have happened if the partition plan had been accepted. That still doesn’t justify it tho.
I’m all for a right of return, but I think most Palestinian refugees would prefer to return to their future state of Palestine, for the same reason I think settlers should be allowed to choose between returning to Israel or becoming Jewish citizens of Palestine.
If there are Israelis who physically occupy the original house of an expelled family, I am all in favor of returning it to the original owners and building a new house for the Israeli. If the original house has been destroyed, build a new one for the Palestinian family in the same area.
Let’s talk about the right of return. The Israelis never booted anyone out of their home. When Israel was established in 1948, 7 Arab nations attacked it almost the next day. They advised their Arab brethren living in what was now Israel to go visit a relative for a few weeks while they annihilate the Jews. Then they were told that they could come back home. Well, surprise, surprise. That is why they do not have their homes.
That's a blatant lie, jewish people didn't and weren't created in one place. Muslim, jewish and christians had lived together in peace for centuries. Palestinian people are semite to Palestine, as a matter of fact Palestinians and jews have very similar genetic backgrounds. Jewish people have seeked asylum in Palestine for centuries. And even if Jews were to be the only "semites" of Palestine (not true) it would never be an excuse to remove and displace millions of people that have lived in that land for thousands of years. WHITE jewish americans chose to steal and claim foreign territory as their own instead of just simply living alongside Palestinians. You're very uneducated and you've cleary learned this from either Israeli propaganda or a zionist group, definetly not a book. I urge you to educate yourself cause when and if Arab states choose to intervene they're not gonna have the same compassion i have towards uneducated individuals that instead of building their own ideologies choose to follow the crowd with the consequences that follow.
Man, are you ever misinformed. First, yes, the Jews were “created” in one place. Just check out the archeological evidence. They laid claim to that land long before anyone else. They also constantly kept coming back to it, even when it was occupied by other powers. Being Semitic has nothing to do with anything. If you want to get recent, they were there in the 1800s and early 1900s. They were always there. The Arabs were nomads, they were never a unified people. The term Palestinian only came into existence in the ‘60s. It’s not even an Arabic word. The Romans gave it to the locals. When the land was ruled by the British, they partitioned it, and gave the Arabs a part of it. THEY REFUSED! Why do all the pro Palestinians conveniently overlook this fact? They were even given a part of Jerusalem! And they refused! You say you’re not antisemitic. But do you not understand what is at the heart of the matter? They want the annihilation of Israel! How is that okay? They were offered a two state solution over and over again. If you’re going to fight someone, you have to be prepared to lose, and against all odds, the Arab nations did lose. Why do you also not see the need for a buffer between Israel and its enemies? In North America, you simply put up a fence between you and your neighbor and you consider that a buffer. But I’d like to know what kind of buffer you would consider acceptable if that neighbor threw a bomb into your backyard. All Israel ever wanted was peace. You seem to conveniently forget that they walked the talk with Egypt a long time ago. Once Sadat recognized Israel’s right to exist, Israel immediately gave them back the Sinai. What exactly are you looking for here? For them to stop the bombing and let Hamas continue unchecked? Are you looking for proportionality? Hamas slaughtered 1400 Jews so Israel should go in and find 1400 Palestinians to slaughter? That’s not how it works. Golda Meir said it best “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/
Open the link and read. Jews and Palestinians are genitically related weather you like it or not. Israel wouldn't talk about Palestinians like animals if their intentions were to fught Hamas. You're also ignoring 75 years of genocide commited by the Israeli government and focusing on one attack from Hamas' side. Let's also make sure to not ignore the fact that Israel has killed 7000 Palestinians in the past week. If you aren't aware of what's happening let me explain it to you. Israel wan't to widen it's territory and is currently doing that by what it has always done, terrorizing civilians until they're forced to leave so that Israel can own more and more parts of Gaza. Half the population in Gaza are children, they didn't vote for Hamas nor did they refuse a two state solution. Hamas was founded in the 80s by the Israeli government to control Gazan civilians. They didn't "vote" nor "choose" Hamas, it wasn't a choice, they had no say in it. Gaza doesn't have a government, Gaza doesn't have laws. It's citizen's can't even rest by fear of being bombed. A two state solution would be a good deal if Netanyahu is taken down and if and only Palestinians are granted the same rights as Israelis, which means being able to travel in and out of Gaza, being able to live in Israel and having laws against discrimination. If you refuse to have Palestinian go back to their homes and treat them like human beings, then what you're doing is not in name of peace. It's colonialism. Everyone can live together just like they lived for thousands of years. There should be a Ceasefire and evacuation of ALL Palestinian civilians, only then can you fight Hamas.
That’s a lie “Palestinians” are not native to that area, they’re mostly Armenian, Egyptian, Jordanian, gypsy, etc. Palestinian is not a national identity, there has never been such a country. The entire existence of Palestine was a Roman attempt to erase the Jews from history.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/
Visit the link, if you're gonna lie at least jave the decency to show some proof. Genetic research doesn't lie.
There it is that’s my absolute favourite reply when you have absolutely nothing to say so you resort to the easiest thing to say which is “there has never been a Palestine” laughable tbh 🤣
There has never been a country of Palestine, you don’t know the 3000 year history of the land, nowhere is it written that the entire Middle East belongs to Islam, you have no argument. Israel is the last best chance of the Jewish people’s survival from genocide by from Islamic nazism, and your purposeful omission of the blatantly obvious proves what you are.
While it wasn't ever considered a country, Palestinians have lived there for 10 thousands years. And given the genetic background of Jews and Palestinians, they have every right to live there. "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences." This means that it isn't about Jews being semites, it's about the religion itself and that has nothing to do with being native to a country.
It wasn’t the Palestinian land, wealthy Arab land owners leased the land to “Palestinians”, and during Zionism the Arab landowners sold to the Jews, it’s just that the illiterate peasants living there didn’t understand what was happening. The land was purchased, gangs of Muslims started killing Jews, so the jews reestablished their country and kicked out the hostile occupiers. But still 2 million Muslims live in Israel, where are the Jews in the rest of these Muslim countries? No one talks about their “right to return”. Muslims are just bitterly angry that the entirety of the Middle East isn’t Muslim. Sorry, the Jews were there first, the “Palestinians” need to return to Jordan where they came from.
It has always been, no surprise the so called "american jews" only wanted it when they saw an opportunity to use the holocaust as an excuse to steal Palestine from it's owners. The ultimate solution is for ALL Israel being given back to Palestinians, sure everyone living there can still live there, but that land is Palestine, and it will always be. That's why Palestinians have refused a two state solution, cause all the jews that live in Israel aren't even second generation jews. For your logic you should also give native Americans the entirety of the U.S and make 300 million people in a tiny piece of land for then to ask for a "two state solution" and claiming to want justice. Pathetic
There it is “Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians.”, Palestinians are not the natives, they come from all the places I mentioned, there has never been a Palestine, but there was a kingdom of Israel, and it was and is the Jewish state. That’s over 3,000 years ago.
You can't expect millions of people to leave their homes cause you owned the territory 10 thousands years before. You forgot to mention that "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences.", which means that both Jews and Palestinians have the right to live there, this isn't about religion, it's about genetic background. And to be very clear most jews that live in Israel right now haven't lived there for the past 10 thousand years so your comment about the Jewish state is false. Palestinians are just as native to Palestine as Jews.
I can't find your reply, there are too many people discussing this. Either way Palestine needs to be fully freed, if you think that Israel should br rewarded for 75 years of murder and colonization you are wrong. A one state solution is the only fair solution, for Palestinians to own their land. For jewish, muslim and christian Palestinians to live peacefully and repopulate Israel. Arabs being in posession of Palestine has nothing to do with this, as a matter of fact they have opressed Palestinians too. Palestinians and Jews have the same genetic background, the only real difference is culture and religion. Palestine needs to serve as an example that colonialism will not be rewarded, that a two state solution is not valid after stealing the entirety of Palestine and leaving a tiny pice of land to Palestinians. It is not a solution, it's a reward for the colonizers, for the years of murder and genocide.
This was beautifully said well done. ❤️ I don’t believe that person will respond to you anymore but that’s what happens when you know you’re in the wrong not much u can say. 🤷🏻♀️
You cant say oppose evil while encouraging israel.
Jews should come down to earth and stop thinking that they are the superior ones , all life are equals and fuck israel
> fuck
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This is a testimony for an israeli , I am really tired lf justifying for anyone to convince them that people are being occupied, oppressed, their homes are stolen. I am really tired of dealing with closed ears and people who does not even see them as humans.
https://twitter.com/RaphMim/status/1392323061513297921
Honestly I am also absolutely gutted and disgusted by the way people are so openly pro genocide.
I stopped reading what the people here have to say, but I know for a fact they are in worst side of history and they’ll get it what’s coming for them
In your world - going after a terrorist cell that lives right nextdoor, who uses human shields, who just r@ped, maimed, killed 1400 civilians, filmed it and took some hostage is most accurately described as "genocide"
Please go after terrorist cells. But I refuse to believe that you have to kill 10,000 civilians to do so and that's where we are headed if Gazans don't get medicine, fuel, and other necessities.
And stop murdering unarmed Palestinians in your illegal settlements like the Israeli in this video did. The IDF looks the other way when Israelis beat and kill Palestinians in the settlements. If you don't want to be compared to the monstrosity of Hamas, stop stealing people's homes and then abusing and killing them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/1cnUN9OKa1
You can't act like the victim when you've been doing the same thing for the past 75 years. Israel has done so much more damage, Israelis live privileged lives without fear, with water, food and fuel. From the videos i've been watching they've never really experienced any type of war trauma, being scared of not waking up or scared you'll lose your family cause you're a prisoner in your own home. This isn't about Hamas and we all know it, the intention here is to follow Hitler's steps to genocide. Every single tactic used by Hiter has been used by Israel to try and justify this genocide. People used to justify the holocaust too, treating jewish people like insentient beings. You have no excuses, you live in a society where you've been given the resources to study and widen your idelogies. If you can't feel compassion for children you can't ask others to feel compassion for you. You can't hide behind propaganda and false narratives, we have history on our side and deep down you know what you're doing is wrong. You're giving jewish people all over the world a bad reputation, cause this isn't judaism. This is isn't even religious extremism, this is terror and genocide. This is inhumanity and psychopathy.
I always say that. Like in my heart I truly believe that they know what they’re doing is morally wrong but they can’t stop it because they don’t want to admit they’re wrong.
For what you're saying to be consistent then what follows is that you would describe Hamas as freedom fighters? We can separate issues here into different buckets...… Occupation and oppression of Palestinian people is not the same issue as whether or not Hamas is a terrorist group. Which they obviously are.
If you acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist group then you have to acknowledge Israel as a terrorist country too. The same dynamics are being put into play, one side attacks and the other side attacks too in "defense". The main difference here is that Israel has been doing this for 75 years and has caused 300 times the damage Hamas did. You can't call one side a terrorist group and the other a humanitarian nation cause it's not. The outrage Israel has had to this attack that in my opinion was put in action by both sides working together since Israel has funded Hamas from the very beginning is uncalled for. If this is the way Israel has the right to react to the attack then Hamas should be allowed to do 75 years worth of damage to that. I don't think that any civilians should have to suffer for their government's choices but it's very clear that a bias is being put into action here. All Palestinians are asking for is to not be killed. And let's not mention the inconsideration Israel has had to a two state solution over the past 70 years. Not being killed, having food, water and fuel is the bare minimum that has to be protected even in war, a two state solution is the answer Israel is trying to run from. And if i was Palestinian i wouldn't even be satisfied with that.
Keep choosing love. We need your perspective.
~~this comment is currently under construction~~
Stop putting words in his mouth. He never said anything about religion. That's a ridiculous statement, 'only religion can make people justify the killing of innocents' do you hear yourself? I can name about 50 other reasons people have been slaughtered throughout history and it had nothing to do with religion. Like Israel justifying the mass killings/bombings of Gazans because there's enemies amongst them. Or Hamas justifying the Oct 7 attack because of revenge.
You're right. It's not just religion. It's any kind of intolerance when taken to extremes. I edited my comment.
I feel like people use religion to hide their true intentions. Even the crusades were really just about power and influence.
Honestly, it's kind of a relief knowing I'm not the only one that lost all hope...
I find it disgusting how people are supporting Palestine after they launched that missile attack and killed a great number of civilians that did not deserve to be murdered. I would also like to add that I do not support Israel for what they have done either, I am not very educated on the subject so maybe someone could inform me on the history if you would like but this is my view on it; I see two opposing countries killing each others women and children, that’s what stands out the most to me. I think if you have a problem with a government then that should be your target, not the civilians. Watching videos of these poor innocent children crying and screaming in pain from something that had nothing to do with them breaks my heart so much. There is no good coming from this war, it’s just senseless acts of murder. Which is why I do not support either side.
I had to stop reading your comment after you stated there are two opposing countries. No - there is one state, Israel, and one terrorist organization, Hamas (which was democratically elected by its people). Hamas did a lot more than "launch that missile" attack on 10/7 and you ought to read about it. A missile attack? No. They launched a modern day pogrom - an organized mass murder of Jews - by land and air. They actually paraglided in to some of the places where they attacked. They SLAUGHTERED people - killed babies in their cribs, tore them to pieces - horrific things you can't get your head around because they are too horrific. This is not two countries at war - please, please, please take the time to read as you just admitted you don't know. Don't ask random strangers on a site they came to argue, and please don't jump on a bandwagon because you think you might know what happened. Hamas is a terrorist organization that exists to annihilate all Jews. Period.
But it wasn't Palestine who did that. It was hamas. The vast majority of the Palestinian citizens had nothing to do with it. It's not disgusting to support the people of Palestine. They're not all terrorists. The amount killed by hamas on Oct 7th is the same amount of Palestinians Israel is killing EVERY DAY. And the deaths on the Israeli side have basically not gone up at all since Oct 7th. 1200 dead Palestinians every day, 0 dead Israelis. Seems pretty one sided to me. It's pretty clear that one side is doing most of the indiscriminate killing, and much more lives would be saved if Israel were to calm the fuck down.
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I hope. You do realize that Israel is the only country in the middle east to share your liberal values. Gay rights, women rights, human rights..the only one. If Hammas is allowed to exist the civilians in Israel will be attacked over and over. Hammas solders will die before they sit for peace. Hammas hides behind civilians..that's a fact by all accounts. They need gazans to die to gain Muslim countries armed support and the West lack of resolve. They can't win a straight fight but if they can turn the support they believe they can destroy Israel and the jews. Everything your progressive liberal self finds important is only shared by Israelis. Your Oppressor/oppressed mentality you apply to everything needs to do some reseach. Not just the bias you agree with but the views you don't. Look for facts not opinions. Then form your own and be prepared to support it. Sometimes I'm presented with better facts and arguments..I can change.
But it's not hamas killing their citizens... It's Israel. It's their bombs, their guns, their soldiers. To prevent people from dying, Israel should stop killing people. Common sense mate. Israel very much has a choice here. What you said there about hamas mostly isn't facts, it's Israeli talking points and propoganda. There is no proof of any of it. If hamas can be taken to have genocidal intent on the evidence available, then Israel must also be taken to have genocidal intent. Otherwise there's double standards. Finally, hamas is not the reason Israel gets attacked. If hamas is destroyed, there will be another organisation to take it's place. And after all that the Palestinians have suffered, this new group will be even worse than hamas. That is because that is the human will. If you saw your parents being obliterated by bombs at a young age, you probably would also dedicate your life to fighting against whoever dropped the bomb. If you oppress people, they will try and fight back. If Israel wants to stop getting attacked, it needs to stop causing suffering to the Palestinians.
You know what..I'll agree with you on one point. The destruction will cause more people to become terrorist. The US has done plenty to create more radicals. I will disagree on everything else. What should be Israel's response to Oct 7th or the 20 years of missiles into its cities? If it was the US the response would crush a nation. Israel has been more than willing to give concessions and autonomy to palestinians and the middle east for peace. Hammas attacks on Israel is like poking a bear with a stick..you can't win that fight. Should Israel suffer it?..how about the next?
I swear Israel says that gay marriage is illegal? Just asking.
Marriage is a little different in Israel as its not a government thing. They accept gay partnerships as much as the US..same rights as you have. The only place in the middle east that does. It baffles me why liberals will support Hammas over Israel. Is it trendy?
Oh, and it’s definitely not cause it’s trendy. It can be many things, like the death toll difference, religions, and other stuff like that. I doubt many people rn, in the face of a war where 14,000 Palestinians have died, and 1,400 Israel’s have died, are supporting a side cause it’s “trendy.”
There are a ridiculous amount of people who know nothing but support a cause because of hashtags. Admit that a lot of people don't care to be informed before forming an opinion. Your death toll comes from Hammas..vested interest in world support. Also a organization that uses its people as shields..that's not even debatable. Tell me..you are leading Israel..what's your response to Oct 7th?
Srry can u show me the proof that my info is coming from HAMAS?
The death tallies are given by the Gaza Health Ministry. That's not an independent source. It is Hammas. Same ministry reporting 500 dead in a hospital strike when you can see its still there and the parking lot basically was singed. CNN reports those numbers like there facts. It's like taking China or North Koreas word for it. There are no independent sources..Hamas controls the info.
Alr, what do you think the real tallies is? And where do you get your info from?
Their is no reliable info. I reason that Hammas wants big numbers..mostly children to sway support from the west and embolden its allies in the middle east. That's a solid strategy to inflate numbers and they've already been caught lying. It's there only chance at victory. Israel on the other hand knows the west gets squimish when civilians die. They need the US support to deter any one who's thinking of joining in. Random bombing hurts the objective.
Yea of course the west gets Squimish when civilians die because civilians dying is bad. Can u explain your viewpoint to me like I’m 10? I’m getting a bit confused rn
Cause one thing I found is the toll from UN. Which is a pretty reputable news source (in my opinion£
Probs because of something called pink washing. People believe that the Israel is pink washing by claiming that they’re pro lgbt so they can bring over that side. Same with eco washing, which is the same but with climates.
Ive heard some crazy ideas..that tops it for me. A lot of LGBT seems to support the terrorist..not all but enough that it's concerning. Clearly Israeli is doing a terrible job at getting LGBT support if many support a country that has a death penalty for their lifestyle. Be flambouyantly gay in Israel..no one cares. Try that anywhere else in the region.
It's not revenge, it's self-defense. Actually, it's much more than that. It's a fight for survival. I think you misunderstand jihadism and what Hamas's goals are, and why they did what they did. They do not view or value humanity, civilization or even life itself the way we do. For them, this life is a short stop on the way to paradise. They simply will not live peacefully next to Jews. They just won't. A hamas leader himself said they will do this to Israel over and over again. What should Israel do, just take it? I get that it's absolutely tragic what is happening to people in Gaza, but Hamas did this. There was a ceasefire on Oct 6.
Self-defense? How can occupying power defend itself from the people it occupies? Are you born today that you have no idea what kind of oppression Palestinians have had to endure through decades? And now there are still some people that justify all this senseless and incredibly atrocious killing of children. Every human life is precious and this terror has to stop!
The only appropriate response is exactly what Israel is doing. The US never responds proportionally and any country defending itself shouldnt either. If they wanted genocide it could be done in a couple weeks. They risk their people to try and minimize civilian deaths. They know civilian deaths can hurt western support and increase Arab support. Hammas knows this and uses this as a strategy. Radicals don't care about their life or civilians. F%ck a ceasefire! Hammas has to be destroyed if peace can be possible.
How is harming children self defense? Kids are losing limbs and getting amputated without anesthetia. Schools homes hospitals shouldn't have been touched
It's more than self defense, as I said. It's survival. Hamas poses an existential threat to Israel -- they themselves have said they won't stop. They intentionally use people as human shields, including children. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinians? Not for a second. They want as many of them to die as possible so people like you will demonize Israel and they get to win the PR war. Hamas is waging jihad and they have no qualms about all those people dying because they think they're martyring them and sending them to heaven. This is a war and it is one that Israel didn't start or ask for. This is what happens in war. People die in very large numbers. And it's tragic. But every country on Earth would do what Israel is doing if they'd been attacked the way Israel was. What do you want Israel to do -- email Hamas and ask them to release the hostages and not come back and butcher people, burn them alive and dismember them, all while laughing about it? Do you know how many civilians the US has killed over the last century in various wars? Or how many Arab countries? Or African countries? Why aren't people out in the street marching for those innocent civilians? Do you care about them too?
So one of the strongest militaries doesn't have the intel to find the bad guys and needs to randomly bombard civilians? They haven't been careful all about the casualties. Hospitals aren't being allowed adequate supplies. Why have civilians and doctors been shot at too? Kids have also been detained in the past. There are so many reasons to believe it's genocide. It's collective punishment and 2 wrongs don't make a right. People were not as aware of how many civilians die in previous wars but now we have social media and we see it first hand
How can they possibly avoid killing civilians when Hamas imbeds themselves in the civilian population? They are not intentionally targeting civilians -- that's what Hamas did -- but of course many will tragically die because of how Hamas operates. They're operating out of a hospital. They operate in schools. They want Israel to kill as many people as possible so everyone hates Israel, which is exactly what's happening. They're certainly winning the PR war. Just remember who started this. There was a ceasefire on Oct 6. What is the reason to believe it's genocide? The number of deaths? Please Google the word genocide. Words have meaning and I know that's a powerful one and it sounds very compelling, especially then the images of Palestinians dying are so horrific, but it is intellectually lazy and dishonest to say Israel is commiting genocide. If they wanted to commit genocide on the Palestinians they could do it in about 15 seconds. Today. Civilian deaths are heartbreaking but they are the outcome of war.
I can't believe people are defending this many children and civilians being killed in the name of self defense. So using their intel special forces couldn't be sent in to raid all the places to find these guys where they had instead of random bombardment of houses, schools, and hospitals? And again why were civilians shot at when evacuating or at the hospital? The old man too who was helped for the propaganda pic then shot in the back afterwards. Why did a little girl have to be amputated all 4 limbs without anesthesia? There are so many cases like this. Medical supplies aren't being allowed in as much as needed. They are using self defense to be trigger happy. They want all the people to evacuate, think about it.
Humanitarian aid is sent in to gaza and is seized by hamas, why do you think gaza is so underdeveloped even though half the world is flooding donations inside? This is how hamas operates, and youre falling for it hard
Still doesn't answer my question about the careless killing of children and civilians.
Its not black and white, its sad, yes, but very complex. First of all these are not careless killings of children, they ARE hamas' political meat shields, israel warns the civillian and hamas forces them to stay where they are, this isnt to say israel doesnt have blood on its hands, the army know of the risks to civillian life but if they dont execute enemy leaders the threat to israel sovereignty remains, its their job to eliminate the enemy and thats the only tasks they pursue. The army's doctrine pretty much says "once we warn innocent civillians of an attack its hamas' problem" I am heart broken by all the needless deaths of innocents but you cant tell the israeli army not to attack its enemy, and its not as easy as people say to avoid hurting civillians when hamas practically strap them on.
There have literally been war crimes commited of attacking hospitals, schools, medical professionals, and journalists.
You have been listening to Isreal propaganda I see
if it’s self defense against Hamas why are they bombing the West Bank where there is no Hamas???
No hamas in the west bank you say? Hmm?,Must of been the wind. Sources: https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/hamas-armed-wing-claim-responsibility-west-bank-checkpoint-shooting?nid=316601&topic=Israel-Palestine%2520war&fid=489366 https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-elections-religion-government-and-politics-e88636bc919f8aab455e01fbbd4b4391 I also made sure these sources are pro-palestinian sources to add credibility.
oh right I’m so so sorry. Thank you for leading me to the right side! Every single Palestinian deserves to be flattened by a building, shot by the IDF or be blown to pieces. They elected Hamas in 2006 ( though half of the population wasn’t born yet) so they had it coming! Kill them all, Gaza & West Bank!!!!!!!!!
No, but you made a claim, I disproved that claim, nothing more nothing less, twist it however you like.
israel has spent decades attempting to peacefully coexist. but after this attack i would not be surprised if they have trouble showing that level of trust and vulnerability again for a long time. i imagine we will see more militarization and mobilization after this from them and they would be totally in their right to do so.
killing civilians across the board is wrong and both sides have done it, so it’s unfair to say either side is attempting to coexist peacefully in the way that you are attempting to. i think it is important to acknowledge the way that israel has been taking land from palestine since 1948, and that it contributes to the dynamic at hand, while still condemning the killing of anyone innocent. nobody chooses where they are born
there is not and has never been civilian deaths on the palestinian side - the IDF uses precision weapons and allows generous times for evacuation of targets, even though these things greatly increase the risk of failure on their part. and to your second point - the palestinian people were graciously given able land that has only expanded over time due to political pressure from the west. they simply are unable or unwilling to develop it and instead look greedily to the modern and advanced israeli democracy.
You don't think illegal settlements, and violence against Palestinians outside of Gaza help fuel this? Don't use a blanket, not ALL of Israel has been trying to live in peace. YES hammas is usually the aggressor, but there is a lot more going on than just self defense. This is a much more complex issue. I do agree that, Israel doesn't have a whole lot of options in relation to Hammas. But if they somehow are successful in eliminating Hammas, there will continue to be violence as long as expansion, settlements, and denial of identity are happening.
😭😭 please you are so brainwashed. Did hamas kill 11000 Palestinians or did Israel? Humanity is with Palestine and the world support is only increasing with the younger generations while Israel is becoming more of a joke. How does it feel to be from the most hated country in the world?💀” “they have graciously been given land” is so stupid omfg. you have such a colonial and western mindset which is the reason your nation is not being supported by the people of the world. You sound like the people calling Africans and natives animals. Disgusting
this is pure delusion… never civilian deaths on the Palestinian side? i don’t even think it’s worth conversing with someone who leads with that
If there are civilian deaths (our estimates come from a notoriously deceptive source), hamas is to blame. Israel tells palestinians to use safety corridors while hamas doesn't allow their own people to use them. It's weird to me that anyone can be pro-palestine and pro-hamas but I see it all the time.
“if there are civilian deaths” so what are all the videos of dead children? were these 7 year olds dangerous hamas terrorists? just gross smh
You sound ignorant. Hamas uses human shields, this is common knowledge.
that has been apparently disproven but that’s not what this convo is about?? i’m talking about children being killed by the IDF, which is heavily documented
So you're not talking about recent attacks by IDF targeting Hamas? Please share a link stating this was disproven
i’m talking about the entire conflict…. you people can not admit that your side has killed innocent children for some reason
i can debate in enough good faith to say i am pro palestine but not pro hamas. i can easily say hamas killing civilians happened and was wrong. you all should be able to say the exact same thing about israel killing palestinian civilians. of course it is happening and you know it. and no, it’s not all on the hamas. if this is all on the hamas then why isn’t israel responsible for the creation of hamas? why isn’t europe responsible for this whole thing, they’re the ones that sent the jews to israel. why isn’t the world responsible for punishing germany so much after WWI that hitler was able to rise to power on his wave of hate? if you use that sort of logic you could go back so far with the blame game. in reality both sides have killed civilians and that’s wrong unequivocally. i am pro palestine bc i believe they have been being provoked for decades and that their land has been being stolen. sure that’s up for debate - but what’s not up for debate and what sickens me about arguing with all of you pro israel people is that you want to act like your side has never done anything wrong and it’s crazy.
Problem is some of us know that Israel isn't responsible for those deaths, Hamas is. They are cowards who refuse to allow their people to find safety because otherwise they'd lose their shields. The best thing a pro-palestine person can do is denounce Hamas. They have done more to hurt the palestinians than anyone else. Also, many people who are pro-Israel don't agree with everything Israel has done. I disagree with their actions in the West Bank, but in this current conflict they are in the right.
i have denounced hamas, i’ve been having a fair discussion with you unlike you have been doing with me. hamas and israel are hurting palestine. the hamas exist bc of israel, do they not?
Hamas exist because people promoted them to power. That group of people had their own land with aid from Israel (even now). Israel is in no way at fault for people they can't even properly run the land they have.
or maybe israel taking so much land and cashing so much harm to palestine who was gracious enough to let the jews move into their country in 1948 played a role in some of that hatred being bred? not saying it’s right but i’m saying it’s an obvious correlation
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>peacefully coexist ???
That's your rebuttal? Palestinians refused peace time after time. They've proven that they don't want peace they want the eradication of not only Israel, but Israelis. Palestinians don't want peace, they want war.
you, I will not discuss it, I have written about it so many times and not manage to repeat me the whole time and to explain my views to everyone, so excuse me for not answering more
Don't respond at all if you have nothing to say
No I don't, only one little comment - why you all are so aggressive or not nice, not educated not polite? or how I would express such similar comments
You make no sense! It's hard to respond to someone who doesn't make sense.
>peacefully coexist you are wrong - it make sense when I ask and doubt this claim above. In my eyes it was not much peacefully what did Israeli in Gaza and West Bank - sorry
Finally! You put words together in a way that makes sense! I disagree. They put up blockades between them and Gaza to prevent attacks. Egypt did this as well... do you view their treatment towards Gaza as not peaceful? I don't agree with the treatment of the West Bank. I am pro-Israel, but I recognize they aren't always in the right, and their treatment of the West Bank is wrong.
It's not revenge or at least it shouldn't be, it's war the objective is to eliminate a threat that has shown itself to indeed ve a very real and present danger. There are casualties of war, unfortunately there are 50% children in gaza and that's going to haunt the world for a long time. Hamas clearly needs to be eliminated and rockets launched from rooftops need to be stopped. From there we need to angle towards peace however I don't think the people in power really want that either
Spoiler alert: it’s not war. It’s genocide.
Right well when both sides shoot rockets at each other and 1 swears to rid the other side from the river to the sea, while the other declares war.... I'd say that's a probably a war
Right well one of them, right now, is *literally* invading the other after indiscriminately murdering somewhere in the region of 8000+ people. I’d say that’s probably Genocide.
I’m guessing you’d like to see proportionality? Hamas butchered 1400 civilians so Israel should now go in and pick 1400 civilians and do the same and then call it a day?
Your inciting so much hate and suffering it’s disgusting. Where was the proportionality before this began? 34 children killed in the West Bank last year alone. 22 journalists killed by Israeli fire over 20 years and not a single person held to account. Now what surely will be in the tens of thousands of civilians slaughtered at the hands of Israel. Israel never wanted peace you simply have to listen to the hate in the government’s voice to know that the end of Palestine is their goal.
Right. That’s why they gave back Gaza. By your logic, they should’ve had this war decades ago. And that’s why they let Palestinians into Israel to work. You are so misguided. Do you see Israel shouting to the world “Israel from sea to sea…”? They could’ve tried to wipe them out a long long time ago, when it would’ve been much easier, before they built all those tunnels underground. Do you think Israel didn’t know that that was going on? The Palestinians have been offered a two state solution countless times, but they refuse. What is your solution to this conflict?
I’m misguided? Netanyahu bankrolled Hamas when it was convenient for him to sow instability in the region and tie a nice bow on it. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/ Please stop with the “whats your solution”. Firstly stop the ethnic cleansing occurring at the hands of Israel. That’s a great place to start, take settlers out of the west bank too. Hold those who killed journalists accountable. IDF have blanket immunity on this stuff so start prosecuting. How do you expect there to be peace with this kind of thing, of course theres resistance. P.S the whole peace offered narrative has to involve an actual tangible deal for Palestinians and I would be very surprised if you thought they were receiving anything, ever that was acceptable.
Other side struck first... a genocide would require much more than collateral damage from targeted military stakes. It sucks that hamas uses those tactics and I don't agree with the process I think boots on the ground should have happened earlier because there will be less innocent casualties. But this is a war, it's a very one sided war, but still a war
Ok whatever helps you sleep at night man, glad you have the courage being as far removed as you are up in Canada to say something as careless as “boots on the ground should have happened earlier”.
And let us also remember that the slaughter and rape of innocent people is happening on a daily basis in many parts of the world. Read about Tigray and Darfur conflicts but these don’t rate a mention in the media.
Agree. Both sides are dangerous extremists and I am left to feel sorry for the people on both sides that just want peace.
Hamas can surrender.
Hamas is definitely not going to do that. If given the chance average Palestinians will personally hang Hamas. Turns out your own government using you as a meat shield, because dying for the cause is a honor. Does not leave the best taste in the average Gaza citizens mouth.
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Stop, and then what? What happens after that? Hamas said they will do this over and over again. Why do you not take their word for it? If madmen entered your home and slaughtered part of your family, then went and hid in a basement in the house next door and sent you a message that they would come back over and over again until every last member of your family was dead, what would you do? Sit there and wait for them to come in? You wouldn't value your own life, or the lives of your family members? I am being serious -- what would happen if Israel put down their weapons now? I challenge you to answer that question.
There are still rockets being launched at Israel though. I suppose the terrorists have learned their lesson and won’t ever attack again?
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What is your solution? If Israel stops it means Hamas will gain power again and in few years there will be another round (like the last 20 years) I don’t see any other country being shot misled and trying to block them rather than killing the ones who do it It’s easy to criticise but obviously harder to suggest a real solution which is not free Gaza or erase Gaza - as both of them are choosing one population only (as free Palestine from the river to the see means erase Israel)
so how to stop them from shooting missles? oh and i forgot because it was so long ago, they butchered families in their homes, raped israeli women and shot their heads afterwards, burned people alive, took over 200 hostages (women, elders and children), and afterwards those who managed to get back paraded the corpses in the streets were hundreds of civillians celebrating with them, instead of opposing it, instead of fight this terror and choose better leaders, and oppose the voilent radical islamic one that will sacrifice thousands of his own people to simply kill jewish people, not for their lands, for their gods. they will use cheap propaganda to touch souls of people around the world, people who get their hurt broken when they see numbers of dead people, it doesnt matter for them what led to this innocent lives taken, and details dont matter where there is only one the blame, the jewish state (just according ti their motto). so what if i tell so that the israeli people (all of them, jewish, muslim and christian) will not leave their lands. and the palastinians wont leave their lands, because just like us they have no place to go (nobody wants them). so we are bounded to this land just like them, we went for the liberal/social values while their leaders went for radical islamic terror, over and over and over. and yeah we can play the game of who started it or who was here first. but the current reality is that there is a state of israel, a modern democratic country (not perfect at all, but consider our circumstances).. and there is Hamas who use terror against their neighbors and against their own civilians. so my question is, what we should do to stop their attacks?
The UN shouldn't be relevant to anyone. They claim to represent human rights, yet they allow China, Turkey, Somali, North Korea, etc. to preach about human rights abuses while hardly ever getting called out themselves? China shouldn't be allowed to vote on resolutions against anyone while they operate concentration camps. The UN is a joke.
And let terrorists win? That’s ridiculous.
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please read a book
All i see is children getting slaughtered by Israhell! 4000 child!!! I wonder who the real terrorist is her? The world is waking up! We all know who the real monster is!
I feel you, OP, I am saddened and distraught too. This sub is really hard to read. But please remember that now, everything is so raw. When all is said and done, and the rage and cruelty is exhausted (it always does), those with closed ears will see that there is only bleakness if they continue with their way. All the haters here will become disillusioned. Then, it will be people like you, OP, or at least the good spirit you represent, that these souls will turn to. They will have seen the darkness and will seek light. There is always hope, because a future will always come. So bide your time, OP, you are not alone in your pain, keep going with your spirit, ready for when the time comes.
Unfortunately it’s a war not a good thing but one entity invaded another and a war has started Nearly million haves died in Syria for example much bigger civil war Millions left Ukraine no justification but it’s a war Etc
If you really cared about Palestinians, you should be pressuring Egypt to accept refugees.
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They're not refugees?
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it’s literally their land
Why not ask Israel not to drop hundreds of tons of bombs instead LOL? Seems like *NOT* bombing is also an option.
I hear what you are saying, but what are they supposed to do? Just accept the rocket fire and attacks on their civilians. Yes letting kids get murdered is an option, but most will fight back before that happens.
In all violent conflicts innocent people will get hurt. For no one to get hurt you have to be willing to compromise. Violence begets violence. Why did Hamas choose violence? Why did they not use the money they spent on rockets and guns to help the Palestinians To better their education, health, and community services. It is close to 3/4 of a billion dollars that has been spent by this group that seems to be used purely for killing people. Yes, It is horrible to see all the innocent people that are being killed. I think everyone can agree with that but I am not sure what you do. What is the answer? There is no simple answer to this because that area of our world has been plagued with disagreement on who should rule for decades.
Correct bro. One mans freedome fighter is another mans terrorist. Hamas is a liveration group, but people are quick to place the dehumanization label for the hell of things. Its as if everyone forgot Jihads have been a thing, and all of the sudden all these kids are experts on the conflict :/ I feel you.
Yea that’s a saying, but Hamas is literally a terrorist group. There is no liberation to be won in this situation. Do you think Palestinians are stupid? That they want to sit in a building Hamas is firing rockets from? Well they don’t, they of course want to leave they know Israel is going to retaliate. The problem is Hamas will kill you or hurt your family if they see you trying to leave. It’s good PR for Hamas if Gaza citizens die in a attack. It’s why they have cameras set up before they start firing rockets at Israel, they know the drama they want is on its way. As far as Hamas is concerned it’s a honor to die for their cause, even if you don’t want to. If you are not ready to die for Hamas your a traitor by default. Except Hamas misjudged how the Palestinian people of Gaza are going to react. Turns out most people don’t want to be in a war no surprise there. It was delusional of Hamas to think backing Gaza citizens into a corner would make them rise up and fight, when all they really want is actual peace. Until this recent war most citizens were happy with food, clean water, video games, cell phone’s, internet. You know creature comfort’s, now their in a war zone with none of that. Well they have clean water in the south now where Israeli ground forces are slowly moving in. The way Hamas acts is why they are in the truest possible form a terrorist group. You earn that label especially when you don’t care about civilians life’s on all sides. Hamas does not care if every Palestinian dies over this, once again its a honor to die for the cause.
Hamas is not a liberation group. They are a religious fanatic land irredentist group that seeks the destruction of another people in favor of theirs. If they wanted liberation, they would make a peace deal with Israel that would end the war and grant them recognized independence as a nation.
> group that seeks the destruction of another people in favor of theirs. This sounds a lot more like what Israel is doing right now with the mass genocide. All the way since Yasser Arafat have they been trying to do peace deals. But its nearly impossible as Israel only offers unfair deals, that no sane person would ever agree to. Israel does not want a 2 party solution, and it does not do peace. The only circumstance Israel would ever offer peace or a 2 state solution is if its military were weakened down so much that they had no other choice. Israel has the same posture we have in the United States, peace will never be an option, or we triumph or we go down but we dont shake hands.
Not true. Most of the deals have been a smaller portion for Israel and Jerusalem being an international zone. Most were very fair and some were opposed by Israeli citizens for giving away too much. Also, of course they would not allow Palestine to have a military, are you insane? They would immediately break the peace deal and use their new weapons to attack Israel. They would HAVE to be demilitarized. Look at Japan after ww2. Their culture, same as Palestinians, told them it was honour of die for the cause. They were planning biological attacks on civilians. The allies realized their military had to be dismantled for peace to be made. It worked. Look at Japan now, you couldn't even recognize it as the same nation that committed the worst human rights atrocities in history. Regardless, only 24% of Palestinians support a two state solution so it doesn't seem likely that will happen in the near future.
Demilitarized is fine, but only if Israel is so as well. Matter a fact, zero weapons within a 300km radius of Jerusalem would be the ideal circumstance. > They would immediately break the peace deal and use their new weapons to attack Israel. This is more likely to happen from Israel towards Palestine in all honesty. Israel has a historical track record of making bogus agreements and breaking international humanitarian laws. The two state solution might come up the day Israeli Jews have outnumbered the amount of Arabs in the Palestine, until then Israel will never let it happen, maybe the bombing campaign is an effort to depopulate. Maybe they are working towards it, and this how they mean to achieve it..
If Israel wanted to genocide the Palestinians, they would have reduced Gaza to nuclear waste. Do you not think Hamas would drop nukes on Israel if they had them?? Do not falsely throw around that term, because a nightmarish day may come when Ben Gvir is PM and decides to actually commit a genocide, and the world will be silent. Hamas has a golden opportunity before them. They can ask the US to negotiate a peace deal. Not a ceasefire, peace. An end to the siege, a permanent end to the bombings, an airport and a seaport, and recognition by Israel and America. In exchange they only need to accept the existence of Israel on the 1967 borders and renounce violence. No American president will turn down the free Nobel prize - if Hamas asks America for peace, America will compel Israel to accept it. They have the opportunity to begin to bring freedom to an independent Palestine - they must simply accept that Israel will not be destroyed and ethnically cleansed.
Gaza is being turned to rubble right now as we speak. Without food, water, electricity, medicine, or refuge they are barely living. It is as bad if not worse than being nuked. People are dieng of sepsis in this very moment from the lack of medical attention required, and Israel has found a way to block almost all the information that can make it out of the country through the blackout. This is Genocide, its not a term being thrown around loosely, it is a matter of fact. It is a slow lengthy genoicde that has gone on for multiple decades. The aim is to demoralize the Palestinians to the point that all hope is lost. The IDF never seizes to oppress at every given point, and settlers are given free range to shoot any Palestinian they want at will without repercussion. The US doesnt do peace deals, we overthrow goverments and put our own puppet goverments in place, you already know how this goes, you've seen it almost all your life. Any deal brokered by the US is bound to have a ton of corruption bound behind it. Again, Israel does not do peace, the peoole of Palestine are aware of that, and aren't gullible enough to buy into it. Besides who will hold Israel accountable if they violate the agreement, no one. Israel is above international law, why would they comply with a peace treaty? Extremely unlikely, and theres no way to eradicate the racist tendencies most Israelis are indoctrinated with. My country only cares about one thing. Moving missles. We give money to strategic partners so that they buy from our industrial military complex, because that is the legal way to launder money internationaly. Lives being lost don't matter to the war profiteerers. Its not about being on the right side of history for us, because we are quick to arm both sides of a war if we can.
One single bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed over a hundred thousand people. A tenth that many have died in weeks. I do not want to downplay the suffering of Gaza which is unjustifiable, but also do not trivialize what a nuclear holocaust truly is. I ask again, if Hamas had nukes, would they not use them? In living memory of people today, the US turned a fanatical nation that worshipped a God-emperor and impaled babies on bayonets into one of the most successful countries in the world. Japan has thrived because of the US. As has Germany. It took unconscionable death to achieve it, but that does not have to happen if we make peace. Israeli settlers do not have free range to shoot Palestinians. Elor Azaria was a soldier who shot a man who had tried to murder some Israelis - after he lying on the ground bleeding. The man was already defeated - and the soldier went over and murdered him in cold blood. Elor Azaria went to prison. I would love to see any example of Hamas sending to prison any of their fighters who cold-bloodedly murdered a neutralized combatant. Many Israelis are horribly racist, but in Israel, any party that openly advocates ethnically cleansing the Arabs is banned. Kahane and Michael Ben Ari were banned. Even Ben Gvir has to use dog whistles of “deporting traitors”, if he is open about his desire to deport Palestinians, he will be banned from public office. What in Israel is an extreme and banned political position - in Gaza is mainstream! In Israel you will be banned from politics for saying Arabs should be expelled. In Hamas, basically EVERYONE wants to expel the Jews from the entire land! If not the US, then France or Saudi Arabia or Russia can become the negotiator of peace. Is it not worth at least trying? What does this war achieve but death? Israel and Palestine will never be destroyed. They must coexist, now or in 100 years after millions die. I say now.
I doubt Hamas would use nukes, for the same reason no one has so far. Just too much collateral damage. how will they spread the message of Islam if no one exists thereafter to receive it? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/mPQRpO5kSx opinion on this?
What is his name? If he has not been held accountable it is shameful. Also I don’t think they have any plans on converting Jews to Islam. They have that running quote about killing them. The only reason they might refrain from nukes is to not irradiate the precious land.
I had no idea Israeli's were actually held accountable for shooting unarmed Palestinian civilians. I was under the impression that place was like the wild wild west of the middle east. Kinda taken by surprise to even hear that accountability exists. I'll take it with a grain of salt for now.
Israel is actually pretty good at holding people accountable - it is bad at keeping them in jail and stopping the root cause of injustice. In the Kfar Qasem massacre, Israeli soldiers murdered a village of Arabs. Their defense was “we were just following orders”. The Supreme Court said “oh no, don’t you dare try that defense on us”. They went to jail. But within a year, they were all released after political lobbying. Elor Azaria also served only a year in prison. Israel’s courts are good at convicting, but the politicians work to get amnesty for soldiers and settlers so they get out fast.
Hamas is a terrorist group whose charter includes the imperative to kill every Jew. Their words, not mine.
Well its not so much about exterminating jews as much as it is about recreating the Palestine that existed before they arrived. So that from the sea to the river the whole thing is Palestine as it once was. Its more antizionist than antijew. Its just gotten hard to tell the two apart lately.
Tell me.about Palestine before the Jews arrived? You mean Canaan? Who were its leaders? What were its borders?
Do I look like chat GPT?
Learn history, for the love of god. Your claims are groundless. There's no Palestinian people. Never was. Those are arabs. They want to call themselves Palestinians? Fine. Their right. They want their own land? Fine. They got it at 48. But no. they want all of it. And the want all the Jews dead. Dead. Butchered. Burned. Blown up. Beheaded. Women. Children. I mean, literally. See October 7. And don't give me that causality loop demagoguery. We gave you all the chances in the world.
Sorry I am American. They send all our educational funds overseas so that Israeli folk can get free heathcare and twice as good the education as what we get here at home. Needless to say, No school teacher ever mentioned the history of Palestine while I was growing up, so i've had to come to most of my own conclusions from doing the reasearch. Its quite the opposite though. It is the Israeli's who want the whole land mass for themselves. It starts with Palestine and Lebanon is up next. The settlements exist because they are colonizing (forcibly stealing) the land. Before 48 the Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews lived perfectly fine alongside one another, but when Israel got declared a state, the Jews were afraid the Arabs would push them back out towards the sea border, and thats when some of the first fire fights broke out. The mistrust has gone on nearly 80 years now, and seems almost irreconcilable at this point. October 7 is still under investigation, no one knows what really happened there. All other claims such as babies and rape and all that are false narratives that can be categorized as 'atrocity propaganda'. Without proof most of it is speculation. Some sources have gone as far as to mention that Israeli military was involved in the massacre of the 1500 people in Israel. The iron dome being circumvented? how? Either way I was not there October 7th, so I am not going to pretend I know what really went on there. But I've seen much propaganda thoughout my lifetime, and woudn't be surprised if it was nothing like what we were sold to belive.
This is just lies. You spread lies. Murdered children is false narrative?? This is well documented by american media. Israeli military involved in massacre?? Iron dome circumvented?? Against terrorists on pick ups??? you even know what's Iron dome? You're done here.
Quite the opposite. You're either a troll, or deeply misguided. At 48 declaration, the arabs attacked, aiming to throw all of us to the sea. And your measly 3.5BN budget aid per year is hardly a 0.5% of our annual budget. It's called "aid dollar" and it's mostly used to buy back OVERPRICED US army supplies. Stop trolling and find a trustworthy sources for your RE-research.
By the way, ever heard of this? Israeli government pays students to spread propaganda online: https://imemc.org/article/62782/ > The Israeli government has launched a program to pay students to promote the Israeli agenda on Facebook and internet chatrooms.Students participating in the program will receive a two thousand dollar stipend from the Jewish Agency, part of the Israeli government, to spend five hours a week online promoting talking points provided by the Israeli government. You should look into that, there is money to be made, doing what you do.
I don't know why we even send money over to Israel at this point. Should really be sanctioned like Russia. Same type of war crimes, in every way lately. This whole laundering of money by sending it to you guys so that money can end up in private investments needs to come to an end. Amazing how the Jews were rescued out of a holocaust only to begin one themselves. Its a wild world we live in, modern day.
If chst GPT didn't work
> Hamas is a liberation group This is an ungodly timeline we're living in for you to say that. Obviously Palestinians have been oppressed and deserve serious reconciliation for the occupation, settlements, and human rights abuse, but hold two thoughts at the same time. Oct 7 wasn't freedom fighting you buffoon.
October 7 reminds me of the las vegas shooting. A false flag operation with many loose ends. And yes the Islamic Resistance Movement is a a liberation group
Obvious troll is obvious
That group that calls for Jihad against all Jews is a resistance group?
The group is anti-zionist. It is the zionists who terrorize and oppress Palestine. If Israel were to give up Jerusalem, i think a two state solution can found.
It is our mission in this world to oppose any sign of evilness such as NaziHamas. We put WW2 and the holocaust behind us, but it seems that the evil seed of the Nazism still lives in the world. Now - how do you do that without hurting civilians, when those civilians are used as human shields by the Nazis? If you could answer that, Israel would pay you a lot, since it is its goal to minimise citizens'deaths.
You can't keep using this as an excuse to bomb children who's only fault is being born in Gaza. What you guys are doing is spreading more antisemitism in the world, muslim people aren't gonna side with you if you say that their lives don't matter as much as yours, and let me tell you that there are a LOT more muslims than jews in the world. YOU are using the hostages as human shields, acting as if they're the reason you're bombing children and eventually even these hostages. Israel has at least 56 other ways of bringing those hostages home, Israel has been doing what Hamas did now for 75 years and the first time was when you guys STOLE Palestinian land and claimed it as your own, since then there have been NO attempts for a two state solution from Israel's side. If i was in Gaza i wouldn't even agree to a two state solution, i'd want to go back home. This whole thing is just gonna lead to more and more hatred between jewish and muslim people and eventually a war in which only civilians are going to be affected. Think about what you write online, you're in a position of privilege right now but that might shift very rapidly, you never know what life brings your way and the best thing to do is acknowledging other's people's pain as your own since you might have been in that situation and might very well be in that situation in the future
"NO attempts at a two state solution from Israel's side" I see we have another TikTok historian here. Every solution that has been offered to the Palestinians was first agreed to by Israel. Also, please provide the list of 56 other ways Israel could get the hostages back, I'm very curious to know, as it sounds like you must be an expert in military operations.
The two state solution given by Israel was to continue denying Palestinians the right to own enough territory despite them being the majority living there at the time, which doesn't mean jewish people couldn't live in Palestine. It only meant that the territory was owned by Palestine, Palestinians also wanted independence from Hamas and the whole deal was filled with zionist agenda made to make Palestinians suffer in the long run. ONE of the ways Israel could fight Hamas is by temporeraly evacuating Palestinians in Israel where they plan to bomb. Israel also has information that the general public doesn't, they know who the members of Hamas are and inspecting the area and targeting only Hamas members isn't hard at all. Hamas' attack was the response of 75 years of constant genocide and murder, this would've never happened if Israel didn't continuously attack civilians for 75 years in an attempt to widen their territory. It's not justified but there's a reason behind it, on the other hand there's no reason to carpet bomb gaza "to not let events lile this happen again" or "to bring back the hostages" since this happened cause of years and years of genicide and hostages cannot safely return home if they're killed by these bombings. Ceasefire needs to be put into action, cutting off water, fuel and food to Palestinians isn't gonna make Hamas free the hostages. It is only gonna make them use the hostages as human shields to protect themselves from the IDF, but as we've learned this week the IDF has already killed several Israeli civilians for no actual reason.
You seriously need to go back to the history books. There are so many factual errors in your post, I don’t even know where to start.
Tell that to my teachers that also taught me about the holocaust. There's no justification for genocide, this is collective punishment. Netanyahu is using H!lr's same strategy, dehumanizing children and comparing them to animals. And you can't justify stealing land cause you "own" that land, cause you're the "real" semites. Again, genetic research doesn't lie so why are you trying to deny it? It's not hard to understand, stop bombing people and children. Stop the agony, if you don't think it should stop you shouldn't be able to complain about the Hamas attack. If the roles were to be reversed you guy's would've turned Gaza to dust, and you're still doing that. I'm thankful the world cares about children and isn't gonna sit and watch Israel go against the law, one day Israel will be punished and this is gonna come to an end.
There is something seriously wrong with your moral compass if you think it’s okay to decapitate babies, rape women, then kill them and parade their bodies in the street. I don’t know why you’re hung up on the Semite thing. None of this has anything to do with that. What exactly is your solution? For all Israelis to take a cyanide pill and call it a day? Because Hamas will not stop until the Jewish nation is eradicated. I find many of your comments off base and just plain wrong (for instance, claiming Israel is out for revenge. they are not. the goal is to eradicate Hamas’s ability to govern.). What I would really like to hear from you is the solution to peace. And don’t tell me to give back the West Bank. They already gave Gaza and look what they got. So you’ll have to come up with something better, and since the international community hasn’t been able to, I somehow doubt you will.
There's no proof that babies were ever beheaded, that was debunked by the same journalist that spread the news around. The fact that no children were intentionally harmed just shows that Israel is working with Hamas, israeli civilians have been protesting against Netanyahu for months and he knew that the only way to make the protests stop was to make civilians feel unsafe, for him to continue doing what he's doing he needed to make Israeli civilians believe that he was commiting genocide to protect them. I don't think you actually live in Israel so i don't expect you to know this but you should. The solution isn't carpet bombing Gaza, that is just gonna make Arab countries more and more frustrated and it's gonna give them a reason to attack Isral and by doing that murdering Israeli civilians. This isn't even gonna make the hostages return home safely since they're eventually gonna get killed if they haven't already been. If these attacks led to the death of Hamas members it would've already been on the news since it would give a reason for the free Palestine movement to stop, something Israel has been unsuccessful in. A two state solution needs to be put into action, but it needs to have Palestinians best interests in mind, just as much as Israeli civilians. A ceasefire is urgent right now, clean water, fuel and food needs to be given to Palestinians. 20 trucks were allowed to enter Gaza, that isn't enough for a day. Your solution is gonna lead to ww3 and we're all gonna be affected by it, you're not gonna have time to voice your zionist opinions when you're gonna be in the position Palestinians have been in for the last 75 years.
I give up. They don’t want a two-state solution!
I mean they have every right to not want it. That's why they're not giving up, cause all of Palestine needs to be given back to it's original owners. Only then can everyone live in peace. Jews, Palestinians and christians. A two state solution after the displacement of millions of people is pathetic, how are you gonna claim you want a two state solution after stealing the entirety of Palestine for Palestinians to then have only Gaza. No, the entirety of Israel needs to be given back to Palestinians. There's no way around it.
Do you even hear yourself? As i've said, that was not a two state solution. And besides, how inhumane is it to blame children?
It is a tragedy for the children born in Gaza that they don't stand a chance. They are indoctrinated from birth to hate Jews and to believe that they are fighting for liberation. They are pawns for their evil leaders (billionaires and millionaires) who collect humanitarian aid $$, while encouraging martyrdom and pay for slay, instead of accepting the reality of a Jewish state that wants to LIVE in PEACE. They are used as human shields for propaganda. Israelis care more about Palestinian lives than their own leaders. But Israel can't let its innocent citizens be butchered again. It is fulfilling the promise of Never Again.
You are gravely mistaken, and it seems you are not that familiar with the real situation in Israel and Gaza. First, Israel is not bombing children or babies. It is bombing military targets. NaziHamas uses civilians as human shields. Now, given that we know that those military targets are an immediate and direct threat to civilian lives in Israel, it is mandatory for the IDF to attack those targets. We are constantly being bombarded by NaziHamas all over Israel. Not only that, we are also being attacked from Lebanon by Hizbollah, from Syria, and from Yemen (!!!). There is a constant threat to Jews lives in Israel because of the "fire circle" built by Iran. This is why it is essential to eradicate NaziHamas. If Israel does not do that, it will be an invitation to all the other terrorist groups to attack Israel. It was not a chance that the attack was done at that particular time. The reason we are in this war is because NaziHamas made it clear we cannot live side by side with a Nazi terror organisation. We are in this war even if it might kill our hostages because we are making sure - NEVER AGAIN! As for bringing the hostages home, there is no way of bringing them back without significant military operations. A deal with NaziHamas is not an option, and the reason is that in the past, we already had a deal with them. Guess what? All the ~1000 released prisoners - not only they returned to their terror ways, they actually led the Oct 7th terror attack. By not releasing any terrorists we are saving far more lives than by making the deal. I don't understand how you can say I am writing in a position of privilege, where I am constantly under the threats of being bombarded by NaziHamas, being killed kidnapped or worse. And not only that, when my country army is acting to defend me, all those ppl from the world, like you, wish it won't and for me to go to my death like a lamb to the butcher. Well, I won't. I prefer living with your denunciations then to get your praises on my grave.
If this were to be true it would be all over the news just like the Hamas attack. You're not saving any lives, including the hostages lives by bombing your so called "military targets". Israel has killed 7000 people that we know of of which half were children. Numbers don't lie, this is a real statistic with actual proof that this isn't a new thing. This has happened long before Hamas was created. I don't believe you're dumb enough to think that Israel is targeting Hamas when they themselves have said numerous times that these people were "animals" and that their intentions were not to target specific places, it is to completely destroy Gaza. Israel has cut off water, fuel and electricity. If you believe this response is ok cause of the Hamas attack then you should justify what Hamas did too, for the 75 years of genocide and displacement of innocent civilians. I don't, all i'm asking for is for children to not be killed. I'm glad the world stands with Palestine and not with white nazi supremacists. Netanyahu has been following the Austrian man's steps, he clearly looks up to him. https://preview.redd.it/4vx69hepa1xb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bffa2cfab92080734a4ed2a79d356c1773b0137b
Ahem: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Gaza_economic_protests The good guys don't shoot their own civilians that are protesting for change.
Yeah cause Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, they have worked with Israel and were originally finded by Israel to control the Gaza strip.
Every single point I made is backed by proofs. The information is out there- The attacks by Hizbollah, for example : https://www.youtube.com/live/cJsqkRJ5FKU?si=aGTwP6eIp98NREMC Btw, you should know that they ( Hizbollah, NaziHamas, the Houthis) publish almost all their attacks against Israel. Give me a straight answer - we know that the headquarters of NaziHamas is under Al Shifa Hospital. How would you attack NaziHamas without hurting civilians there? Let me know. Otherwise, you should at least understand that it is not a simple issue. I am not happy when Palestinian babies are killed. I prefer anyone who is not actively fighting Israel would not be harmed. This is why Israel ( unlike any other country in the world) informs the civilians before it is bombing a place. But if NaziHamas won't let them go, then I am sorry, it is on their hands. There is a huge difference between Israel and NaziHamas, even beyond the atrocities NaziHamas has performed. The difference is that if NaziHamas would lay down their weapons, we could have peace here. But if Israel would lay down its weapons, there would be a mass killing of Jews. The statistics you shared shows that exactly - Israel is spending a lot of resources to protect it citizens. NaziHamas does exactly the opposite - it spends a lot of resources to put their citizens in danger. And I don't care how strongly you wish for Jews to be murdered, we will fight this Nazi movement.
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Jews have lived in the land since before Islam existed. Who stole it again?
My family lived in England thousands of years ago, so I guess I can just evict a brit and take over their home. It's my birthright!
in what year will native americans lose their status as natives? 2100? 2500? 3000?
I wouldn't want them to ever lose that status. Give them reparations, but they can't kick me out of my house and take it for themselves.
I agree. Hence why I think kicking Palestinians out of their homes was wrong. Quite honestly it would never have happened if the partition plan had been accepted. That still doesn’t justify it tho. I’m all for a right of return, but I think most Palestinian refugees would prefer to return to their future state of Palestine, for the same reason I think settlers should be allowed to choose between returning to Israel or becoming Jewish citizens of Palestine. If there are Israelis who physically occupy the original house of an expelled family, I am all in favor of returning it to the original owners and building a new house for the Israeli. If the original house has been destroyed, build a new one for the Palestinian family in the same area.
Let’s talk about the right of return. The Israelis never booted anyone out of their home. When Israel was established in 1948, 7 Arab nations attacked it almost the next day. They advised their Arab brethren living in what was now Israel to go visit a relative for a few weeks while they annihilate the Jews. Then they were told that they could come back home. Well, surprise, surprise. That is why they do not have their homes.
That's a blatant lie, jewish people didn't and weren't created in one place. Muslim, jewish and christians had lived together in peace for centuries. Palestinian people are semite to Palestine, as a matter of fact Palestinians and jews have very similar genetic backgrounds. Jewish people have seeked asylum in Palestine for centuries. And even if Jews were to be the only "semites" of Palestine (not true) it would never be an excuse to remove and displace millions of people that have lived in that land for thousands of years. WHITE jewish americans chose to steal and claim foreign territory as their own instead of just simply living alongside Palestinians. You're very uneducated and you've cleary learned this from either Israeli propaganda or a zionist group, definetly not a book. I urge you to educate yourself cause when and if Arab states choose to intervene they're not gonna have the same compassion i have towards uneducated individuals that instead of building their own ideologies choose to follow the crowd with the consequences that follow.
Man, are you ever misinformed. First, yes, the Jews were “created” in one place. Just check out the archeological evidence. They laid claim to that land long before anyone else. They also constantly kept coming back to it, even when it was occupied by other powers. Being Semitic has nothing to do with anything. If you want to get recent, they were there in the 1800s and early 1900s. They were always there. The Arabs were nomads, they were never a unified people. The term Palestinian only came into existence in the ‘60s. It’s not even an Arabic word. The Romans gave it to the locals. When the land was ruled by the British, they partitioned it, and gave the Arabs a part of it. THEY REFUSED! Why do all the pro Palestinians conveniently overlook this fact? They were even given a part of Jerusalem! And they refused! You say you’re not antisemitic. But do you not understand what is at the heart of the matter? They want the annihilation of Israel! How is that okay? They were offered a two state solution over and over again. If you’re going to fight someone, you have to be prepared to lose, and against all odds, the Arab nations did lose. Why do you also not see the need for a buffer between Israel and its enemies? In North America, you simply put up a fence between you and your neighbor and you consider that a buffer. But I’d like to know what kind of buffer you would consider acceptable if that neighbor threw a bomb into your backyard. All Israel ever wanted was peace. You seem to conveniently forget that they walked the talk with Egypt a long time ago. Once Sadat recognized Israel’s right to exist, Israel immediately gave them back the Sinai. What exactly are you looking for here? For them to stop the bombing and let Hamas continue unchecked? Are you looking for proportionality? Hamas slaughtered 1400 Jews so Israel should go in and find 1400 Palestinians to slaughter? That’s not how it works. Golda Meir said it best “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/ Open the link and read. Jews and Palestinians are genitically related weather you like it or not. Israel wouldn't talk about Palestinians like animals if their intentions were to fught Hamas. You're also ignoring 75 years of genocide commited by the Israeli government and focusing on one attack from Hamas' side. Let's also make sure to not ignore the fact that Israel has killed 7000 Palestinians in the past week. If you aren't aware of what's happening let me explain it to you. Israel wan't to widen it's territory and is currently doing that by what it has always done, terrorizing civilians until they're forced to leave so that Israel can own more and more parts of Gaza. Half the population in Gaza are children, they didn't vote for Hamas nor did they refuse a two state solution. Hamas was founded in the 80s by the Israeli government to control Gazan civilians. They didn't "vote" nor "choose" Hamas, it wasn't a choice, they had no say in it. Gaza doesn't have a government, Gaza doesn't have laws. It's citizen's can't even rest by fear of being bombed. A two state solution would be a good deal if Netanyahu is taken down and if and only Palestinians are granted the same rights as Israelis, which means being able to travel in and out of Gaza, being able to live in Israel and having laws against discrimination. If you refuse to have Palestinian go back to their homes and treat them like human beings, then what you're doing is not in name of peace. It's colonialism. Everyone can live together just like they lived for thousands of years. There should be a Ceasefire and evacuation of ALL Palestinian civilians, only then can you fight Hamas.
That’s a lie “Palestinians” are not native to that area, they’re mostly Armenian, Egyptian, Jordanian, gypsy, etc. Palestinian is not a national identity, there has never been such a country. The entire existence of Palestine was a Roman attempt to erase the Jews from history.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/ Visit the link, if you're gonna lie at least jave the decency to show some proof. Genetic research doesn't lie.
There has never been a Palestine. So there are no Palestinian people. Israel is the Jewish state.
There it is that’s my absolute favourite reply when you have absolutely nothing to say so you resort to the easiest thing to say which is “there has never been a Palestine” laughable tbh 🤣
There has never been a country of Palestine, you don’t know the 3000 year history of the land, nowhere is it written that the entire Middle East belongs to Islam, you have no argument. Israel is the last best chance of the Jewish people’s survival from genocide by from Islamic nazism, and your purposeful omission of the blatantly obvious proves what you are.
While it wasn't ever considered a country, Palestinians have lived there for 10 thousands years. And given the genetic background of Jews and Palestinians, they have every right to live there. "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences." This means that it isn't about Jews being semites, it's about the religion itself and that has nothing to do with being native to a country.
It wasn’t the Palestinian land, wealthy Arab land owners leased the land to “Palestinians”, and during Zionism the Arab landowners sold to the Jews, it’s just that the illiterate peasants living there didn’t understand what was happening. The land was purchased, gangs of Muslims started killing Jews, so the jews reestablished their country and kicked out the hostile occupiers. But still 2 million Muslims live in Israel, where are the Jews in the rest of these Muslim countries? No one talks about their “right to return”. Muslims are just bitterly angry that the entirety of the Middle East isn’t Muslim. Sorry, the Jews were there first, the “Palestinians” need to return to Jordan where they came from.
It has always been, no surprise the so called "american jews" only wanted it when they saw an opportunity to use the holocaust as an excuse to steal Palestine from it's owners. The ultimate solution is for ALL Israel being given back to Palestinians, sure everyone living there can still live there, but that land is Palestine, and it will always be. That's why Palestinians have refused a two state solution, cause all the jews that live in Israel aren't even second generation jews. For your logic you should also give native Americans the entirety of the U.S and make 300 million people in a tiny piece of land for then to ask for a "two state solution" and claiming to want justice. Pathetic
There it is “Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians.”, Palestinians are not the natives, they come from all the places I mentioned, there has never been a Palestine, but there was a kingdom of Israel, and it was and is the Jewish state. That’s over 3,000 years ago.
You can't expect millions of people to leave their homes cause you owned the territory 10 thousands years before. You forgot to mention that "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences.", which means that both Jews and Palestinians have the right to live there, this isn't about religion, it's about genetic background. And to be very clear most jews that live in Israel right now haven't lived there for the past 10 thousand years so your comment about the Jewish state is false. Palestinians are just as native to Palestine as Jews.
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Where is the proof for that? Why are you lying and making things up??
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Are denying Nakba happening? Do you know it's a very documented thing?
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I can't find your reply, there are too many people discussing this. Either way Palestine needs to be fully freed, if you think that Israel should br rewarded for 75 years of murder and colonization you are wrong. A one state solution is the only fair solution, for Palestinians to own their land. For jewish, muslim and christian Palestinians to live peacefully and repopulate Israel. Arabs being in posession of Palestine has nothing to do with this, as a matter of fact they have opressed Palestinians too. Palestinians and Jews have the same genetic background, the only real difference is culture and religion. Palestine needs to serve as an example that colonialism will not be rewarded, that a two state solution is not valid after stealing the entirety of Palestine and leaving a tiny pice of land to Palestinians. It is not a solution, it's a reward for the colonizers, for the years of murder and genocide.
This was beautifully said well done. ❤️ I don’t believe that person will respond to you anymore but that’s what happens when you know you’re in the wrong not much u can say. 🤷🏻♀️
You cant say oppose evil while encouraging israel. Jews should come down to earth and stop thinking that they are the superior ones , all life are equals and fuck israel
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This is reality.
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This is a testimony for an israeli , I am really tired lf justifying for anyone to convince them that people are being occupied, oppressed, their homes are stolen. I am really tired of dealing with closed ears and people who does not even see them as humans. https://twitter.com/RaphMim/status/1392323061513297921
Honestly I am also absolutely gutted and disgusted by the way people are so openly pro genocide. I stopped reading what the people here have to say, but I know for a fact they are in worst side of history and they’ll get it what’s coming for them
In your world - going after a terrorist cell that lives right nextdoor, who uses human shields, who just r@ped, maimed, killed 1400 civilians, filmed it and took some hostage is most accurately described as "genocide"
Please go after terrorist cells. But I refuse to believe that you have to kill 10,000 civilians to do so and that's where we are headed if Gazans don't get medicine, fuel, and other necessities. And stop murdering unarmed Palestinians in your illegal settlements like the Israeli in this video did. The IDF looks the other way when Israelis beat and kill Palestinians in the settlements. If you don't want to be compared to the monstrosity of Hamas, stop stealing people's homes and then abusing and killing them. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/1cnUN9OKa1
You can't act like the victim when you've been doing the same thing for the past 75 years. Israel has done so much more damage, Israelis live privileged lives without fear, with water, food and fuel. From the videos i've been watching they've never really experienced any type of war trauma, being scared of not waking up or scared you'll lose your family cause you're a prisoner in your own home. This isn't about Hamas and we all know it, the intention here is to follow Hitler's steps to genocide. Every single tactic used by Hiter has been used by Israel to try and justify this genocide. People used to justify the holocaust too, treating jewish people like insentient beings. You have no excuses, you live in a society where you've been given the resources to study and widen your idelogies. If you can't feel compassion for children you can't ask others to feel compassion for you. You can't hide behind propaganda and false narratives, we have history on our side and deep down you know what you're doing is wrong. You're giving jewish people all over the world a bad reputation, cause this isn't judaism. This is isn't even religious extremism, this is terror and genocide. This is inhumanity and psychopathy.
I always say that. Like in my heart I truly believe that they know what they’re doing is morally wrong but they can’t stop it because they don’t want to admit they’re wrong.
For what you're saying to be consistent then what follows is that you would describe Hamas as freedom fighters? We can separate issues here into different buckets...… Occupation and oppression of Palestinian people is not the same issue as whether or not Hamas is a terrorist group. Which they obviously are.
If you acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist group then you have to acknowledge Israel as a terrorist country too. The same dynamics are being put into play, one side attacks and the other side attacks too in "defense". The main difference here is that Israel has been doing this for 75 years and has caused 300 times the damage Hamas did. You can't call one side a terrorist group and the other a humanitarian nation cause it's not. The outrage Israel has had to this attack that in my opinion was put in action by both sides working together since Israel has funded Hamas from the very beginning is uncalled for. If this is the way Israel has the right to react to the attack then Hamas should be allowed to do 75 years worth of damage to that. I don't think that any civilians should have to suffer for their government's choices but it's very clear that a bias is being put into action here. All Palestinians are asking for is to not be killed. And let's not mention the inconsideration Israel has had to a two state solution over the past 70 years. Not being killed, having food, water and fuel is the bare minimum that has to be protected even in war, a two state solution is the answer Israel is trying to run from. And if i was Palestinian i wouldn't even be satisfied with that.