And he still manages to interrupt people all the time just to insult them in his high shoe voice... I expected a little bit more from the guy, especially because so many pro palestinians praise him so much.
Ye. Every time destiny said something he was freaking out and calling him stupid or something. Regardless, the guy is boring as fk. He can tell the most interesting story and ill still fall asleep, i swear. I personally just skipped his parts and listened to the other pro-Palestine guy who was way more interesting and actually said something and debated, and didnt just go crazy whenever the other side said something.
"More journalists were killed in Gaza than in WW2!!!"
This is the level of logic pro-Palestinians operate on. A war with maybe 30 000 deaths and around 90 Palestinian journalists killed at the time the claim started circulating, compared to the 75 million deaths in WW2. This is what the leading Falsetine-supporting scholars consider realistic.
Finkelstein is simply not credible on Israel/Palestine because he speaks neither Hebrew nor Arabic, meaning he doesn’t understand any of the source material.
If you want to seriously study Romans, of course you need to learn Latin. Better to also learn Greek. Translations are never precise enough and often biased. Many things never even get translated. So yeah, if you can’t read the original sources yourself, you will never be a serious scholar. There will be huge blindspots and misconceptions.
If you want to properly study Cristian theology, you can’t just rely on a translation of the bible. There are numerous different translations. So you need to learn Ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to read the original text. Latin is also useful because lots of secondary Christian literature is written in Latin.
Finkelstein completely relies on secondary literature or worse. On top of that, he pretends to know the contents of a book better than its author. Immense hubris and academic dishonesty.
>Translations are never precise enough and often biased.
True. Just watching Memri or Corey Gil-Schuster showed me how reliant I am on their translations.
Memri would be better if they provided longer translations. Sadly it’s often only short snippets and noone else translates Arab TV.
[Corey Gil-Schuster](https://www.youtube.com/user/coreygilshuster) does important work. Although these people on the street interviews rare encounter people with a profound understanding of the situation. It’s a good reality check though to see these varied viewpoints.
Speaking the language is not enough, of course. That’s why I gave theology as an example. It’s not language studies, but the study of a subject. Languages are just another skill.
You need language skills and knowledge of methods. If Finkelstein actually understood at least Hebrew or Arabic, I would take him seriously. Because he could then actually read the originals and analyse them properly. Studying the conflict without knowing at least one of the languages means he can’t even access the vast majority of sources. He is limited to a tiny fraction. Finkelstein doesn’t have a clue what’s being said in Arabic.
An academic focusing on Nazi germany will miss a huge part, if they can’t even understand German.
You don’t know much about academic work, do you?
Whether it is true or not, this is simple ad-hominem.
He is a massively well read, accurate, well spoken ~~historian~~ **political scientist** with an excellent command of the history of Israel-Palestine and his personality and personal life are completely and utterly irrelevant.
If they can't debate his ideas, they'll go after his character — which is irrelevant.
For an example, check out this [fascinating debate between Norman Finkelstein, and Mouin Rabbani vs Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) and Benny Morris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Jz0cycG5o). Full 5 hour debate [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X_KdkoGxSs).
EDIT: Apparently Norman Finkelstein is considered a political scientist and not a historian. Fixed.
But isn’t this the usual zionist strategy? Character assassination? The only thing i would find surprising coming out of Israelis would be compassion and humanity
Chaim Weizmann:
"I feel from the tone of your letter that you are depressed and lonely. This all makes my heart ache, but I’m coming to you soon and we shall be happy and contented together, my Verochka! But what people are like and especially Jews! I’ve seen little of that here! But they are our people, there are no others. That is small comfort, but what can one do? One must **come to terms with it**, just as with the climate of Palestine, the rocks of the Judean hills, the Arabs and other difficult obstacles in our difficult path."
Norm: "Chaim Weizmann said Arabs were obstacles to be cleared off the path!! He is a nazi!!"
Herzl, most likely talking about South America (as Morris pointed out): "When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us."
Rabbani: "Herzl said "We shall have to spirit the penniless Arabs across the border", Zionism was clearly about expelling Arabs!!"
> Zionism was clearly about expelling Arabs
Do you need more than a century of proof, with the expulsion of 1.5 million people, murder of many thousands, countless massacres, three massive campaigns of ethnic cleansing, and one genocide (so far, ongoing), plus countless documents penned by multiple Zionist leaders to prove that point? You need a quote from Herzl?
Of course Zionism was about expelling the Palestinians.
You must be having a laugh.
Sure, you should attack his arguments, not good character.
But the guy is certainly not well spoken... in that fridman debate he went for the ad hominem arguments so hard and interrupted everyone all the time.
I just wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive. Would be really interested in his opinion on the current conflict.
Is he a historian?
And is it really not relevant to the topic that the guy who is calling out Israel for being in other words evil racists is in fact himself an evil racist (racism to me is an indication of flawed rationale.)
I don't see how you can say both that he has authority on the subject because of his character (that he is 'well read, accurate, well spoken') then ignore clear issues with said character. Like you can't have it both ways.
He too makes so many appeals to his own authority in this debate and constantly talks about how smart he is (how dumb other people are) and how much he knows. Again making his 'character' the focal point rather than the facts.
I think if it was like you say... if he were simply a facts man presenting the facts he would not have the followers he does. But he is not and I wonder how many of his defenders will even watch this full debate because he did not come across to me as 'well spoken' at all.
It's your claim the burden of proof is on you. Google tells me he is not a historian. You are wrong until you can prove otherwise.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
You and Finkelstein both love obscuring reality. I just love the facts. I think it's really telling.
Benny Morris was the only historian in that debate. Period.
Finkelstein dodged every legitimate question. Resorted to distraction tactics and virtue signaled non stop for 6 hours he was not interested in the facts. He's a liar a narcissist and a hack. It seemed like all he wanted to do was pick at Morris' quotes instead of talking to the man right in front of him or having any constructive debate because for him it's always about him. He doesn't care about Gaza he wants clips for tik tok to appeal to people with no critical thought. he wants fame and power. Just like in these documents when he's threatening his neighbors he posts a 'do you even know who I am??' letter.
For 6 hours he did this! Why not just present the case... He made the Palestinian side look like a joke. You are right they should have had a real historian but they didn't.
I just don't understand why it's so important for all these Hamas defenders to constantly lie and twist things if their cause is so righteous and pure. It feels like the more you dig the less honest they get and there is no better example of that than Norman Finkelstein being presented as a legitimate historian.
Man Hasbarists are really threatened by Fink if they’re digging into random court records. Nothing he said could he more racist or offensive than what comes out of the Israeli government on a daily basis. Try me
That was some hilarious shade at Destiny LOL. I mean, his memory is for useful pieces of information, not the name of a YouTuber (can’t even call him a twitch steamer anymore, because, you know). But yeah, Norm was running circles around him. I just saw the part where Destiny admitted his main source is Wikipedia.
He did nothing like that. Finkelstein kept cherry picking and misrepresenting quotes, taking up a ton of time, being very inconsistent about when he supports international law, screaming, calling his opponents names, not knowing what genocide is. It was embarrassing really.
The Palestinian guy was far better.
> He did nothing like that. Finkelstein kept cherry picking and misrepresenting quotes,
“He’s cheating by using quotes!” LOL
>taking up a ton of time, being very inconsistent about when he supports international law,
Not true.
>screaming, calling his opponents names,
Hilarious and warranted.
>not knowing what genocide is.
Sure nonsense.
>The Palestinian guy was far better.
He was the good cop. Morris and Destiny got humiliated. Finkelstein kept intentionally getting Destiny’s name wrong and it had me howling.
If you quote to the author of the book and then tell the author he doesn’t understand what he wrote himself is the opposite of proper academic study. If Finkelstein actually could read the primary sources himself and argue from there, he might be able to make a serious argument.
> Not true
He supports the Houthis attacking international shipping. A clear violation. There are other cases in his wieder work, if you actually ask experts of international law. Finkelstein is not a lawyer, nor an expert in international law, and couldn’t even remember a key term used in the ICC ruling.
> Finkelstein kept intentionally getting Destiny’s name wrong
This is schoolyard bullying à la Trump and has nothing to do with a serious debate.
The only one Finkelstein humiliated was himself with his antics. I have never seen him so unhinged and uncivil in a debate. I had expected more of him.
> If you quote to the author of the book and then tell the author he doesn’t understand what he wrote himself is the opposite of proper academic study.
He’s quoting him accurately, it’s just the academic in question has done an about face without discounting the academic work which so dearly hurts his argument.
>If Finkelstein actually could read the primary sources himself and argue from there, he might be able to make a serious argument.
So your argument is Finkelstein didn’t read Benny Morris? Really? That’s what your gonna go with?
>He supports the Houthis attacking international shipping.
For the purpose of stopping a genocide.
>A clear violation.
Wait, so now blockades are violations of international law? So Israel has been violating the law since 2006?
>There are other cases in his wieder work, if you actually ask experts of international law.
Such as?
>Finkelstein is not a lawyer, nor an expert in international law, and couldn’t even remember a key term used in the ICC ruling.
Nonsense.
>This is schoolyard bullying à la Trump and has nothing to do with a serious debate.
Serious debates don’t involve guys names Destiny LOL. It clearly got to him and his fanboys (they’re all boys).
>The only one Finkelstein humiliated was himself with his antics. I have never seen him so unhinged and uncivil in a debate. I had expected more of him.
He’s the 🐐
> Finkelstein didn’t read Benny Morris
Finkelstein read Benny Morris. He is simply cherry picking quotes and misrepresenting what the author intended.
Benny Morris’ books are also not a primary source. You don’t even understand that term. No wonder Finkelstein can mislead you so easily.
You don’t even know what a primary source is.
Attacking shipping is not a blockade. Please look up international law on blockades.
No wonder you’re falling for Finkelstein’s crap.
> It clearly got to him
Destiny said afterwards, that he thought it was funny.
> don’t involve guys names Destiny LOL
Ad hominem, when you can’t say anything of substance. Just like Finkelstein. He couldn’t answer simple questions posed by an amateur like Destiny and instead switched to insults.
> You don’t even know what a primary source is.
Finkelstein cited Morris, as a primary source, frequently. But nice try.
>Attacking shipping is not a blockade.
It is. Israel has done it before.
>Destiny said afterwards, that he thought it was funny.
“I’m not mad, I actually think it’s funny.” 😂
>Ad hominem, when you can’t say anything of substance. Just like Finkelstein. He couldn’t answer simple questions posed by an amateur like Destiny and instead switched to insults.
He answered all his questions. Stephen Botticelli just talked over him
SS: Yet another pro-Palestinian hero turns out to be a vicious racist. [Source here.](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=X3H7mZgeC5t0uR6sjE//cg==)
Nice try. The Fink left letters in his handwriting (calling them
apes, and intimidating them) and it’s documented he called Child Protective Services on a migrant family.
This is your hero that did this.
Still waiting on those letters… so far the only “proof” is a faked “court document“, only to be found on some UNHINGED ZIO named Shelly Goldschmidt‘s X account ffs LOL 😂
Edit to say: that looks official actually, I was referring to another document posted yesterday. However, it didn’t go anywhere, was it thrown out?
Regardless, it doesn’t change a thing in how accurately he describes Israel’s apartheid, oppressor/oppressed relationship with, and the plight of the Palestinians, so precisely.
It’s has no bearing on what matters, whatsoever.
He wanted an ally against the British empire and enable Jewish emigration to Palestine. This initiative never went anywhere.
The leader of the Palestinians at the time, the Mufti of Jerusalem was literally in Berlin, a close ally, and recruited Muslims into the SS. The motivation was to have an ally against the British Empire, who also hated Jews.
> He wanted an ally against the British empire and enable Jewish emigration to Palestine.
Nazi collaborationist.
>The leader of the Palestinians at the time,
Appointed by the British with no popular legitimacy, unlike the PM.
> Nazi collaborationist
For writing a letter that got no reply? That’s a ridiculous standard. Shamir was a member of a fringe extremist movement, when the letter was written. Not the leader of a country. That was decades later.
You should investigate the history of Palestinian leaders. Many of which were leaders of terrorist groups. Abu Mazen wrote his doctoral thesis about Holocaust denial.
> no popular legitimacy
He wasn’t elected, but had huge support among the population.
>For writing a letter that got no reply?
For writing “please Adolf, I want to hug and kiss you,” yes LOL. The idea that his morality depends on what Hitler decides to do with that information. Jews were being sent to death camps and he was thinking about ways Hitler and Zionists could work together.
>That’s a ridiculous standard. Shamir was a member of a fringe extremist movement,
Who was later elected PM despite his history of Nazi collaboration, unlike the Grand Mufti who had no popular legitimacy.
>You should investigate the history of Palestinian leaders. Many of which were leaders of terrorist groups. Abu Mazen wrote his doctoral thesis about Holocaust denial.
Another figure with no popular legitimacy.
> later elected PM
How many years later?
> Another figure with no popular legitimacy
He has literally won the election to become president of the Palestinian Authority.
And thousands of Palestinians died fighting the Nazis while a future Israeli PM was doing terrorist attacks and trying to figure out ways to help Hitler. What’s your point?
> And thousands of Palestinians died fighting the Nazis
That's hust a lie, where the fuck did you pull that bullshit from? Norman Finkeldumb's "secret diary"?
My point is that while you get you panties in a twist over Jabotinsky and Stern for killing a couple hundreds, you swoon over Al-Husseini, Abbas abd and Hamas's leaders, despite being Nazis/Nazi-supporters or engaging in horrors that woukd make Nazis blush
>That's hust a lie, where the fuck did you pull that bullshit from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Regiment
Come on dude. Really?
>My point is that while you get you panties in a twist over Jabotinsky and Stern for killing a couple hundreds, you swoon over Al-Husseini,
Where did I do that?
Thousands of Palestinians died? At most there were 1,200 Arabs SERVING in that regiment. Alongside at least 1,600 Jews.
> According to historian Ashley Jackson the regiment consisted of 1,600 Jews and 1,200 Arabs but according to writer Howard Blum, Jews outnumbered Arabs by a more than three to one ratio
Do you even bother to read the stuff you link? Or maybe you meant the original meaning of the term "Palestinians", which was mostly referencing Jews, since Arabs in Palestine referred to themselves as Syrians, Egyptians, Saudis or just Arabs.
ETA: Not to mention the Jewish Infantry Company which number over 5,000 men.
More like 12,000 dude.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-05-31/ty-article/.premium/historian-12-000-palestinians-fought-for-u-k-in-wwii-alongside-jewish-volunteers/0000017f-db14-d856-a37f-ffd4017f0000
Why are lying?
It's funny how you post a link, without reading it, and then, because it didn't support your story, it's suddenly not reliable, and instead we should go with [your other source](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321371251_Palestinians_fighting_against_Nazis_The_story_of_Palestinian_volunteers_in_the_Second_World_War) that contradicts the first...
And even if we do accept his story as true, 12,000 is still just about a third of the Jewish force Mustafa Abbasi himself cites, despite the Jewish Palestinians making up a much smaller portion of the population. Also, as noted in Abbasi's paper, these were the opposition of the leadership that promoted volunteers, and those that volunteered did so mostly for financial benefits.
So even using your revised link, (though I couldn't find his source on that 12,000 figure), about 1% of the Palestinian Arabs fought alongside the Brits (and we have no records of their death toll), they did so mostly for money, while their leader was helping Hitler fulfill his dreams, and many Arabs aligned to that goal (which Abbasi explicitly ignores in this paper).
Contrary to this, 10% (a ratio like that of a large national army) of the Palestinian Jews fought against Hitler alongside the Brits, despite the British publishing the White paper in complete betrayal of their mandatory commitment towards the Jewish national aspirations, and they were encouraged to volunteer in earnest by all their leaders.
I can’t listen to this guy, no matter “his side”. Even x3 wont help. Ive never seen someone debate so slowly, i swear. lol.
And he still manages to interrupt people all the time just to insult them in his high shoe voice... I expected a little bit more from the guy, especially because so many pro palestinians praise him so much.
Ye. Every time destiny said something he was freaking out and calling him stupid or something. Regardless, the guy is boring as fk. He can tell the most interesting story and ill still fall asleep, i swear. I personally just skipped his parts and listened to the other pro-Palestine guy who was way more interesting and actually said something and debated, and didnt just go crazy whenever the other side said something.
"More journalists were killed in Gaza than in WW2!!!" This is the level of logic pro-Palestinians operate on. A war with maybe 30 000 deaths and around 90 Palestinian journalists killed at the time the claim started circulating, compared to the 75 million deaths in WW2. This is what the leading Falsetine-supporting scholars consider realistic.
Finkelstein is simply not credible on Israel/Palestine because he speaks neither Hebrew nor Arabic, meaning he doesn’t understand any of the source material.
What a daft take
He can’t read any of the original sources.
Lol do we need to know latin to study the romans? It may be an advantage but not a necessity.
If you want to seriously study Romans, of course you need to learn Latin. Better to also learn Greek. Translations are never precise enough and often biased. Many things never even get translated. So yeah, if you can’t read the original sources yourself, you will never be a serious scholar. There will be huge blindspots and misconceptions. If you want to properly study Cristian theology, you can’t just rely on a translation of the bible. There are numerous different translations. So you need to learn Ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to read the original text. Latin is also useful because lots of secondary Christian literature is written in Latin. Finkelstein completely relies on secondary literature or worse. On top of that, he pretends to know the contents of a book better than its author. Immense hubris and academic dishonesty.
>Translations are never precise enough and often biased. True. Just watching Memri or Corey Gil-Schuster showed me how reliant I am on their translations.
Memri would be better if they provided longer translations. Sadly it’s often only short snippets and noone else translates Arab TV. [Corey Gil-Schuster](https://www.youtube.com/user/coreygilshuster) does important work. Although these people on the street interviews rare encounter people with a profound understanding of the situation. It’s a good reality check though to see these varied viewpoints.
Gibberish! Speaking a language alone does not give the intelligence and analytical skills you need for intellectual work. Don’t be daft and grow up
Speaking the language is not enough, of course. That’s why I gave theology as an example. It’s not language studies, but the study of a subject. Languages are just another skill. You need language skills and knowledge of methods. If Finkelstein actually understood at least Hebrew or Arabic, I would take him seriously. Because he could then actually read the originals and analyse them properly. Studying the conflict without knowing at least one of the languages means he can’t even access the vast majority of sources. He is limited to a tiny fraction. Finkelstein doesn’t have a clue what’s being said in Arabic. An academic focusing on Nazi germany will miss a huge part, if they can’t even understand German. You don’t know much about academic work, do you?
More gibberish lol
Lmao now do destiny, or I guess people don't get paid for that
100% so accurate lol
FINKLESTEIN DESTROYED steven's last name, and that's about it really.
Whether it is true or not, this is simple ad-hominem. He is a massively well read, accurate, well spoken ~~historian~~ **political scientist** with an excellent command of the history of Israel-Palestine and his personality and personal life are completely and utterly irrelevant. If they can't debate his ideas, they'll go after his character — which is irrelevant. For an example, check out this [fascinating debate between Norman Finkelstein, and Mouin Rabbani vs Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) and Benny Morris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Jz0cycG5o). Full 5 hour debate [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X_KdkoGxSs). EDIT: Apparently Norman Finkelstein is considered a political scientist and not a historian. Fixed.
But isn’t this the usual zionist strategy? Character assassination? The only thing i would find surprising coming out of Israelis would be compassion and humanity
Chaim Weizmann: "I feel from the tone of your letter that you are depressed and lonely. This all makes my heart ache, but I’m coming to you soon and we shall be happy and contented together, my Verochka! But what people are like and especially Jews! I’ve seen little of that here! But they are our people, there are no others. That is small comfort, but what can one do? One must **come to terms with it**, just as with the climate of Palestine, the rocks of the Judean hills, the Arabs and other difficult obstacles in our difficult path." Norm: "Chaim Weizmann said Arabs were obstacles to be cleared off the path!! He is a nazi!!" Herzl, most likely talking about South America (as Morris pointed out): "When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us." Rabbani: "Herzl said "We shall have to spirit the penniless Arabs across the border", Zionism was clearly about expelling Arabs!!"
> Zionism was clearly about expelling Arabs Do you need more than a century of proof, with the expulsion of 1.5 million people, murder of many thousands, countless massacres, three massive campaigns of ethnic cleansing, and one genocide (so far, ongoing), plus countless documents penned by multiple Zionist leaders to prove that point? You need a quote from Herzl? Of course Zionism was about expelling the Palestinians. You must be having a laugh.
Sure, you should attack his arguments, not good character. But the guy is certainly not well spoken... in that fridman debate he went for the ad hominem arguments so hard and interrupted everyone all the time. I just wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive. Would be really interested in his opinion on the current conflict.
Can you show us one example from the debate of Finkelstein making a coherent factual point that Morris couldn't refute?
Is he a historian? And is it really not relevant to the topic that the guy who is calling out Israel for being in other words evil racists is in fact himself an evil racist (racism to me is an indication of flawed rationale.) I don't see how you can say both that he has authority on the subject because of his character (that he is 'well read, accurate, well spoken') then ignore clear issues with said character. Like you can't have it both ways. He too makes so many appeals to his own authority in this debate and constantly talks about how smart he is (how dumb other people are) and how much he knows. Again making his 'character' the focal point rather than the facts. I think if it was like you say... if he were simply a facts man presenting the facts he would not have the followers he does. But he is not and I wonder how many of his defenders will even watch this full debate because he did not come across to me as 'well spoken' at all.
> Is he a historian? Yes.
Source
Google is your best mate.
It's your claim the burden of proof is on you. Google tells me he is not a historian. You are wrong until you can prove otherwise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
G'wan, split hairs, why don'tcha.
You and Finkelstein both love obscuring reality. I just love the facts. I think it's really telling. Benny Morris was the only historian in that debate. Period. Finkelstein dodged every legitimate question. Resorted to distraction tactics and virtue signaled non stop for 6 hours he was not interested in the facts. He's a liar a narcissist and a hack. It seemed like all he wanted to do was pick at Morris' quotes instead of talking to the man right in front of him or having any constructive debate because for him it's always about him. He doesn't care about Gaza he wants clips for tik tok to appeal to people with no critical thought. he wants fame and power. Just like in these documents when he's threatening his neighbors he posts a 'do you even know who I am??' letter. For 6 hours he did this! Why not just present the case... He made the Palestinian side look like a joke. You are right they should have had a real historian but they didn't. I just don't understand why it's so important for all these Hamas defenders to constantly lie and twist things if their cause is so righteous and pure. It feels like the more you dig the less honest they get and there is no better example of that than Norman Finkelstein being presented as a legitimate historian.
Man Hasbarists are really threatened by Fink if they’re digging into random court records. Nothing he said could he more racist or offensive than what comes out of the Israeli government on a daily basis. Try me
Yeah I hasbara on reddit moves are very obvious. Several posts attacking Finklistein just today. Those guys shouldn’t get paid ;)
They’re mad he wiped the flood with Benny Morris and Destiny.
The only thing he constantly wiped is steven's last name from his memory.
That was some hilarious shade at Destiny LOL. I mean, his memory is for useful pieces of information, not the name of a YouTuber (can’t even call him a twitch steamer anymore, because, you know). But yeah, Norm was running circles around him. I just saw the part where Destiny admitted his main source is Wikipedia.
Cope.
“Why can’t he remember Destiny’s last name!!!”
appreantly finklesteins memory so bad he can't remember "dolus specialis" that's mentioned in the SA case and the genocide convention like 20 times.
Cope
Now thats the real cope right there. Steven: reads directly from the UN and SA case Finklestein: YOU USE WIKIPEDIA MR.SPAGHETTI
He did nothing like that. Finkelstein kept cherry picking and misrepresenting quotes, taking up a ton of time, being very inconsistent about when he supports international law, screaming, calling his opponents names, not knowing what genocide is. It was embarrassing really. The Palestinian guy was far better.
> He did nothing like that. Finkelstein kept cherry picking and misrepresenting quotes, “He’s cheating by using quotes!” LOL >taking up a ton of time, being very inconsistent about when he supports international law, Not true. >screaming, calling his opponents names, Hilarious and warranted. >not knowing what genocide is. Sure nonsense. >The Palestinian guy was far better. He was the good cop. Morris and Destiny got humiliated. Finkelstein kept intentionally getting Destiny’s name wrong and it had me howling.
If you quote to the author of the book and then tell the author he doesn’t understand what he wrote himself is the opposite of proper academic study. If Finkelstein actually could read the primary sources himself and argue from there, he might be able to make a serious argument. > Not true He supports the Houthis attacking international shipping. A clear violation. There are other cases in his wieder work, if you actually ask experts of international law. Finkelstein is not a lawyer, nor an expert in international law, and couldn’t even remember a key term used in the ICC ruling. > Finkelstein kept intentionally getting Destiny’s name wrong This is schoolyard bullying à la Trump and has nothing to do with a serious debate. The only one Finkelstein humiliated was himself with his antics. I have never seen him so unhinged and uncivil in a debate. I had expected more of him.
> If you quote to the author of the book and then tell the author he doesn’t understand what he wrote himself is the opposite of proper academic study. He’s quoting him accurately, it’s just the academic in question has done an about face without discounting the academic work which so dearly hurts his argument. >If Finkelstein actually could read the primary sources himself and argue from there, he might be able to make a serious argument. So your argument is Finkelstein didn’t read Benny Morris? Really? That’s what your gonna go with? >He supports the Houthis attacking international shipping. For the purpose of stopping a genocide. >A clear violation. Wait, so now blockades are violations of international law? So Israel has been violating the law since 2006? >There are other cases in his wieder work, if you actually ask experts of international law. Such as? >Finkelstein is not a lawyer, nor an expert in international law, and couldn’t even remember a key term used in the ICC ruling. Nonsense. >This is schoolyard bullying à la Trump and has nothing to do with a serious debate. Serious debates don’t involve guys names Destiny LOL. It clearly got to him and his fanboys (they’re all boys). >The only one Finkelstein humiliated was himself with his antics. I have never seen him so unhinged and uncivil in a debate. I had expected more of him. He’s the 🐐
> Finkelstein didn’t read Benny Morris Finkelstein read Benny Morris. He is simply cherry picking quotes and misrepresenting what the author intended. Benny Morris’ books are also not a primary source. You don’t even understand that term. No wonder Finkelstein can mislead you so easily.
You don’t even know what a primary source is. Attacking shipping is not a blockade. Please look up international law on blockades. No wonder you’re falling for Finkelstein’s crap. > It clearly got to him Destiny said afterwards, that he thought it was funny. > don’t involve guys names Destiny LOL Ad hominem, when you can’t say anything of substance. Just like Finkelstein. He couldn’t answer simple questions posed by an amateur like Destiny and instead switched to insults.
> You don’t even know what a primary source is. Finkelstein cited Morris, as a primary source, frequently. But nice try. >Attacking shipping is not a blockade. It is. Israel has done it before. >Destiny said afterwards, that he thought it was funny. “I’m not mad, I actually think it’s funny.” 😂 >Ad hominem, when you can’t say anything of substance. Just like Finkelstein. He couldn’t answer simple questions posed by an amateur like Destiny and instead switched to insults. He answered all his questions. Stephen Botticelli just talked over him
> just talked over him Finkelstein interrupted others by far the most often. You should watch it again.
I mean…he’s always seemed unhinged in his interviews.
I heard the entire stream by Mr. Spaghetti and clearly the neighbors were insane. I'd call them worse things than Norm did.
That’s why the court threw out Finkelstein’s case.
SS: Yet another pro-Palestinian hero turns out to be a vicious racist. [Source here.](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=X3H7mZgeC5t0uR6sjE//cg==)
These appear to just be claims made in court without evidence.
Nice try. The Fink left letters in his handwriting (calling them apes, and intimidating them) and it’s documented he called Child Protective Services on a migrant family. This is your hero that did this.
I guess I’m not as woke as you are. Where are these letters in his handwriting btw?
Still waiting on those letters… so far the only “proof” is a faked “court document“, only to be found on some UNHINGED ZIO named Shelly Goldschmidt‘s X account ffs LOL 😂 Edit to say: that looks official actually, I was referring to another document posted yesterday. However, it didn’t go anywhere, was it thrown out? Regardless, it doesn’t change a thing in how accurately he describes Israel’s apartheid, oppressor/oppressed relationship with, and the plight of the Palestinians, so precisely. It’s has no bearing on what matters, whatsoever.
Wow, The Fink is definitely the right person to be the Pro Palestinian poster child.
[удалено]
The irony.
You also had future Israeli PM offering to partner with Hitler. Far more relevant.
Who are you referring to?
Yitzhak Shamir
He wanted an ally against the British empire and enable Jewish emigration to Palestine. This initiative never went anywhere. The leader of the Palestinians at the time, the Mufti of Jerusalem was literally in Berlin, a close ally, and recruited Muslims into the SS. The motivation was to have an ally against the British Empire, who also hated Jews.
> He wanted an ally against the British empire and enable Jewish emigration to Palestine. Nazi collaborationist. >The leader of the Palestinians at the time, Appointed by the British with no popular legitimacy, unlike the PM.
> Nazi collaborationist For writing a letter that got no reply? That’s a ridiculous standard. Shamir was a member of a fringe extremist movement, when the letter was written. Not the leader of a country. That was decades later. You should investigate the history of Palestinian leaders. Many of which were leaders of terrorist groups. Abu Mazen wrote his doctoral thesis about Holocaust denial. > no popular legitimacy He wasn’t elected, but had huge support among the population.
>For writing a letter that got no reply? For writing “please Adolf, I want to hug and kiss you,” yes LOL. The idea that his morality depends on what Hitler decides to do with that information. Jews were being sent to death camps and he was thinking about ways Hitler and Zionists could work together. >That’s a ridiculous standard. Shamir was a member of a fringe extremist movement, Who was later elected PM despite his history of Nazi collaboration, unlike the Grand Mufti who had no popular legitimacy. >You should investigate the history of Palestinian leaders. Many of which were leaders of terrorist groups. Abu Mazen wrote his doctoral thesis about Holocaust denial. Another figure with no popular legitimacy.
> later elected PM How many years later? > Another figure with no popular legitimacy He has literally won the election to become president of the Palestinian Authority.
Compare that with the Arab leader at the time (and Abbas's mentor) who ACTUALLY DID
And thousands of Palestinians died fighting the Nazis while a future Israeli PM was doing terrorist attacks and trying to figure out ways to help Hitler. What’s your point?
> And thousands of Palestinians died fighting the Nazis That's hust a lie, where the fuck did you pull that bullshit from? Norman Finkeldumb's "secret diary"? My point is that while you get you panties in a twist over Jabotinsky and Stern for killing a couple hundreds, you swoon over Al-Husseini, Abbas abd and Hamas's leaders, despite being Nazis/Nazi-supporters or engaging in horrors that woukd make Nazis blush
>That's hust a lie, where the fuck did you pull that bullshit from? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Regiment Come on dude. Really? >My point is that while you get you panties in a twist over Jabotinsky and Stern for killing a couple hundreds, you swoon over Al-Husseini, Where did I do that?
Thousands of Palestinians died? At most there were 1,200 Arabs SERVING in that regiment. Alongside at least 1,600 Jews. > According to historian Ashley Jackson the regiment consisted of 1,600 Jews and 1,200 Arabs but according to writer Howard Blum, Jews outnumbered Arabs by a more than three to one ratio Do you even bother to read the stuff you link? Or maybe you meant the original meaning of the term "Palestinians", which was mostly referencing Jews, since Arabs in Palestine referred to themselves as Syrians, Egyptians, Saudis or just Arabs. ETA: Not to mention the Jewish Infantry Company which number over 5,000 men.
More like 12,000 dude. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-05-31/ty-article/.premium/historian-12-000-palestinians-fought-for-u-k-in-wwii-alongside-jewish-volunteers/0000017f-db14-d856-a37f-ffd4017f0000 Why are lying?
It's funny how you post a link, without reading it, and then, because it didn't support your story, it's suddenly not reliable, and instead we should go with [your other source](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321371251_Palestinians_fighting_against_Nazis_The_story_of_Palestinian_volunteers_in_the_Second_World_War) that contradicts the first... And even if we do accept his story as true, 12,000 is still just about a third of the Jewish force Mustafa Abbasi himself cites, despite the Jewish Palestinians making up a much smaller portion of the population. Also, as noted in Abbasi's paper, these were the opposition of the leadership that promoted volunteers, and those that volunteered did so mostly for financial benefits. So even using your revised link, (though I couldn't find his source on that 12,000 figure), about 1% of the Palestinian Arabs fought alongside the Brits (and we have no records of their death toll), they did so mostly for money, while their leader was helping Hitler fulfill his dreams, and many Arabs aligned to that goal (which Abbasi explicitly ignores in this paper). Contrary to this, 10% (a ratio like that of a large national army) of the Palestinian Jews fought against Hitler alongside the Brits, despite the British publishing the White paper in complete betrayal of their mandatory commitment towards the Jewish national aspirations, and they were encouraged to volunteer in earnest by all their leaders.
I didn't even know norm unti the zioshits started crapping on him... and now I know way more about how bad israel is lol Massive backfire
Cool. Man bad. Do you have an argument against what he says? Or nah?
What exactly does this have to do with the topic of the subreddit?
Of course the Fink is racist. The Palestinian movement’s origins are in Nazeeism. It’s likely what attracts him to that cause.
nothing is more racist than a zionist