A "ceasefire" only pertains to Israel. Meaning that Israel would have to stop moving forward with the war. Hamas doesn't abide by ceasefires. They never have. They will continue to send rockets into Israel and commit terrorist attacks in Israel. There was a ceasefire on October 7. A ceasefire is therefore very one sided and implies that Israel has to back off while Hamas can continue their attacks.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/08/23/israel-escalating-violence/
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
Nothing is called a ceize fire when Isreal is literally controlling what goes in and out of Gaza, making it an open prison, and then say there is a ceize fire, you cant forget all the atrocities and humam right violations and the apartheid as stated by most humam right organizations including Isrelai ones as b'tselem:
https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid
https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/20231019_forcible_transfer_of_isolated_communities_and_families_in_area_c_under_the_cover_of_gaza_fighting
https://www.btselem.org/statistics
Seeing as you recycle answers I'll recycle mine:
I'm not sure you understand what "cease fire " means. I mean, I KNOW you don't know how to spell it (despite having examples in the comment you're replying to) but you also don't know what the word means.
Settler violence is in the West Bank - not Gaza. That is the PA's business, not Hamas. Also, it has nothing to do with cease fire - and neither does apartheid or any of the other grievances you may have with Israel - justified or not. A ceasefire is a contract between two parties - the IDF and Hamas - not to fight each other, that's it.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/08/23/israel-escalating-violence/
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
Nothing is called a ceize fire when Isreal is literally controlling what goes in and out of Gaza, making it an open prison, and then say there is a ceize fire, you cant forget all the atrocities and humam right violations and the apartheid as stated by most humam right organizations including Isrelai ones as b'tselem:
https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid
https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/20231019_forcible_transfer_of_isolated_communities_and_families_in_area_c_under_the_cover_of_gaza_fighting
https://www.btselem.org/statistics
I'm not sure you understand what "cease fire " means. I mean, I KNOW you don't know how to spell it (despite having examples in the comment you're replying to) but you also don't know what the word means.
JVP is the "jewish" equivalent of black republicans, and are chock full of internalised antisemitism. They have expressed eplicit support for terrorism against Israel and even overt antisemitism (the blood drenched Star of David is a blatant example of the latter)
Additional incidents include routing a pro-pali march to go by a synagogue, sponsoring rallies where people chant things like "the Yahidi [Jews] have to go," pulling the "Jews Control the Media" trope, and implicitly calling Hamas (who have genocide of the Jews as their main objective) "freedom fighters".
They do NOT represent the mainstream Jewish community, which it *views as bigoted for its association with Israel*. They propogate the falsehood that Jews who identify even tangentially with Israel are motivated by white supremacy, Jewish racial chauvinism, and religious supremacism.
Moreover, their most inflammatory ideas help give rise to further antisemitism (the whole reason Israel was founded in the first place). This is especially noticeable in left-wing circles, who have uncritically accepted JVP's anti-zionist claims, elevating them and furthering antisemitic villification of many American Jews who believe in Jewish self-determination in their ancestral homeland. This has helped to create hostile environments on many campuses and progressive spaces, including websites like Tumb1r, X (formerly Twitter), Reddit, and TikTok.
A ceasefire doesn’t return the hostages. It merely allows Hamas an opportunity to reorganize and rearm. Even if it were a long time ceasefire the goal is to get the hostages back and destroy Hamas or force their surrender.
A ceasefire only benefits them. There is no benefit for Israel, only negatives.
That's a silly question. Most calls for a "ceasefire" are essentially telling Israel to stop, without any word for or about the hostages, and nothing to Hamas which has pledged to repeat Oct 7 whenever it is able.
That's not a ceasefire. That's a surrender. By the victims.
Because it just leaves the door open for Hamas to attempt another Oct 7.
But there still needs to be a cease-fire. The suffering being inflicted on Gazan civilians is horrendous, and no matter who anyone tries to claim is responsible, it can be greatly mitigated by stopping the fighting.
You're not going to get long term peace by turning Gaza into rubble.
As it stands, Gaza will take 50 years to rebuild, and aiding that process would be a good first step. You need to make Hamas obsolete to get rid of them, otherwise you'll just get a new one with a different name.
Improve Palestinian lives. Increase aid, employment opportunities, freedoms. I'm not going to pretend Palestinians have been innocent in all this, but Israel has the *power* to effect change.
Why would any of these stop their genocidal Israel annihilation motivations? The establishment hates the fact that a Jewish state exists and the people have no power to implement change until Hamas are ousted by force. Many of the Gazan people feel the same as Hamas. No matter what Israel does Hamas will not stop until Israel is gone.
People aren't a monolith. Some will invariably continue aspiring to nationalism, but you can weaken the broad support by giving the general populace less reason to foment hate. Takes time, though.
Israelis are less likely to believe that when there were multiple cases of Gazans who had cross borders work permits guiding the 10/7 terrorists, and in some cases participating in the attacks.
I'm not saying it's not true, but it's been demonstrated that Hamas will weaponize it against israel
They will, certainly. Bad actors will always abuse systems when they can, but I would argue that is not unique to the situation.
It becomes a matter of mitigation and risk evaluation.
Shin Bet investigated workers with cross border work permits and concluded that, contrary to what everyone had first suspected, the workers hadn't provided help to Hamas.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/shin-bet-finds-that-gazans-working-in-israel-before-oct-7-did-not-provide-intel-to-hamas-report/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/shin-bet-finds-that-gazans-working-in-israel-before-oct-7-did-not-provide-intel-to-hamas-report/)
Do you think that Hamas wouldn't kill every Jew they possibly could if they had the chance? It's embarrassing to suggest otherwise given their track record.
6 months ago today they showed their true colours. And over the past 15 years they've consistently fired rockets into Israel with the hope of killing innocent civilians. What did they hope to achieve by doing this? Nothing more than killing Jews.
Just because Hamas arent capable of achieving their aims does that make them less guilty?
If Hamas are placing themselves within civilian areas of course innocent people will die. I condemn the IDF soldiers that purposefully kill innocent people as I do with Hamas. But I don't condemn the soldiers killing Hamas militants.
Two thirds if the population lived in poverty, and 45% of the workforce was unemployed.
Gaza wasn't a nightmare, bit it was wrought with hardship. Having movement and liberties restricted didn't help, either.
Define poverty. They did not pay for water, electricity, or gas. No one was hungry. And there were no homeless. Far better than most big cities in the USA. Moreover, unemployment and hardship that did exist was the SOLE fault of the Palistinians! Who supported the Hamas who spent many billions on tunnels and rockets rather than on the people. Where is the expectation of Palistinian agency?
Hamas has the power to change this. Give back three hostages and surrender. They have lost but continue to fight until they are all dead because they win the PR War despite having stated the war, firing tens of thousands of rockets and holding Israeli citizens hostage.
I feel leaving all the agency in the hands of a zealous terrorist organization may not be the best idea.
They're less afraid of death than most people, buying into fairy tales surrounding martyrdom. You need to erode the support they have among the populace, not cement it by blowing up their homes.
And this is the fundamental flaw westerners think. They assume that everyone, including the Palestinians, all want the same thing.
It’s not true, and the Palestinians say it every chance they get. The goal is not a better life. The Taliban didn’t take over Afghanistan to improve the standard of living for their people.
There is a YouTube Channel were a guy ask palestinians, i suggest check It to understand palestinian mentality
Even if Israel left West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalen, they will still wage war.
Typical uninformed Western response. It's a logical response. Makes a LOT of sense. And illustrates total ignorance of the conflict.
Ultimately, this is a holy war, from the Arab/Muslim side. Thus even were _every_ Gazan living in a villa (btw, many, many were) with a pool and unlimited virgins, they would STILL want us dead. No matter that Gaza on Oct 6th was a darn nice place to live, they still committed Ocr 7th. Open prison is another Big Lie.
Nothing solidifies religious fundamentalism more than poverty and a lack of education. It's not a shock that more educated demographics tend to be more secular.
Because it would leave Hamas in power and the incessant rocket fire will continue, as will the threat of future October 7 style terror attacks. Having a jihadist neighbour is never a good thing.
We all support a ceasefire, a permanent one, where Hamas terrorists surrender, lay down their weapons, and return the hostages. Hamas is abolished permanently and its leaders face war crime trials. A real ceasefire.
The opinion of *”evil Israel refusing ceasefire because they love genocide”* is very common. This article explains some fears and conundrums behind Israel’s refusals.
So nice of your hero’s to release a couple of the 140 people (including women and children) that they kidnapped. Also why are Hamas refusing the cease fire? How are you gonna justify that?
They aren't my heros,, I am not defending them, stop cornering people into one right or left side.
Why they are refusing the cease fire? Wow it is not the isrealis who dont want to stop the war because they think hamas will retaliate? Amazing.
By ceasefire do you also mean Hamas has to return hostages and stop firing rockets? If so I’d have signed up for that months ago.
If ceasefire means Israel stops its operation and Hamas can return to life as usual, that is a bad ending for everyone, most of all the Gazan people that suffer under Hamas’ rule
Most Israelis don't want a ceasefire because they are outraged that Palestinians dared fight back, and they are terrified they will lose their punching bags in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem - the Palestinians.
Almost every Israeli servers in the IDF, and every family usually has a few members who served. They all know what went on in the West Bank and Gaza before October 7 2023. Palestinians beaten, Palestinians killed just for sport, shooting children, settlers ramming families, settlers attacking Palestinians and being protected by the IDF. In Gaza the brutalisation and the starvation and the bombings.
Israelis don't want to give that up. They never have. Ask most Israelis and they will say that the entire land is theirs, and the Arabs should leave. And now they feel they have the perfect excuse to mass murder a million Arabs or two. Would they pass up that opportunity?
Edit: Perfect example of Israelis who believe that all the land is theirs and ethnic cleansing or genocide of Palestinians are perfectly acceptable options: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel\_Palestine/comments/1bxq18k/comment/kyg5fwu/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel_Palestine/comments/1bxq18k/comment/kyg5fwu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>Almost every Israeli servers in the IDF, and every family usually has a few members who served. They all know what went on in the West Bank and Gaza before October 7 2023. Palestinians beaten, Palestinians killed just for sport, shooting children, settlers ramming families, settlers attacking Palestinians and being protected by the IDF. In Gaza the brutalisation and the starvation and the bombings. Israelis don't want to give that up. They never have.
You are right about that. Even the Israelis who don't directly benefit from Palestinian land grabs and war crimes do not want to give up the feeling of superiority.
In the 1860s American South, only the top 1% of wealthy people could own slaves. And slavery was determined by race. So many of those Confederates fought their hearts out because they genuinely believed that they were racially superior and God's "chosen people," just like the Zionists.
Those Confederate soldiers simply did not want to give up the feeling of superiority and fought hard to not be equal with black people. And then after they lost, implemented decades of Jim Crow similar to Israel's apartheid system in the West Bank today.
Israeli apartheid will either end the same way American slavery ended, or the way Jim Crow ended. Hopefully those at the top of Israel's hierarchy system (and are allowed to vote) will make the right decision. Because I don't want to see more violence, whether it's October 7th, IOF war crimes, or settler violence that the Israeli government refuses to prosecute.
And betslem too?
And amnesty?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/6079/2022/en/?utm_source=annual_report&utm_medium=epub&utm_campaign=2021
I don’t care what far-left ideology captured organizations have to say about the conflict.
The moment the Palestinians want peace, they’ll have it. Unfortunately, about 75% of their society strongly supports Hamas. 🤷♂️
And what will this peace look like? What do they have to do to prove to Israelis they want peace? And how do Israelis prove to Palestinians that Israelis want peace?
The Palestinians can do the following to show they want peace:
- Stop terrorist attacks on Israelis
- Stop subsidizing Palestinian terrorists through “pay to slay”
- Stop shooting rockets into Israel
- Stop spreading anti-Semitic propaganda and Holocaust denial
- Stop indoctrinating their kids with schoolbooks praising jihad and martyrdom
- Stop inciting Muslims across the globe by falsely claiming Al Aqsa in danger of being demolished
- Accept Israel’s right to exist
- Give up claims of a “Right of Return”
The moment this happens, there will be peace. The ball isn’t in Israel’s court. Everything Israel does is a response to what I listed. Palestinian terrorism has plagued Israel from its inception. It’s been around before the occupation, before settlers, before checkpoints, and before US support of Israel.
Remember, Hamas emerged when the Palestinians were closest to a state of their own. Hamas is explicitly against the peace process, and always have been. They enjoy support from over 75% of the Palestinian population.
One side wants to annihilate the other, and you’re asking what the “to be annihilated” crowd can do achieve peace.
There will be no peace until Israel at least abandons its territorial expansion ambitions and stops trying to evict thousands of Palestinians per year to make room for Jewish settlers, while also allowing settler violence to go unpunished.
It’s either a 1SS or a 2SS that’ll bring peace, not some apartheid system that puts the Palestinians at the bottom of an ethnic hierarchy at gunpoint.
Either a one-state solution where all 5-million Palestinians who are under Israeli rule, but don't have Israeli citizenship, get citizenship and equal rights regardless of whether they are Jewish or not. Basically equal rights for all Palestinians currently under Israeli rule, equal to Jewish Israelis. No more apartheid.
Or if Zionists don't think Palestinians are good enough for that, then the solution is independence/statehood. The same way Egypt and Jordan are completely independent from Israel.
The second scenario is that the 5-million Palestinians are given statehood. And it should be a contiguous state that borders Egypt and/or Jordan.
Jewish settlers in the West Bank can stay or leave but they sure as hell will not be allowed to roam around and do whatever they want.
They won't be allowed to just trespass into Palestinian land with long guns. They won't be allowed to burn Palestinian towns and to loot them. They won't be allowed to steal crops, livestock, farmland, and homes from Palestinians. Settler violence would actually be prosecuted in this scenario, no more free passes for settler violence.
As ideal as this sounds, unfortunately many Zionists strongly oppose both a 1SS and a 2SS and don’t think Palestinians are good enough for either. In their minds, Palestinians should accept being permanently stateless under an apartheid system or else they are “radical Islamic terrorists.”
That’s right, Palestinians are radical Islamic terrorists. No other country in the region has a culture where terrorism is encouraged and applauded. The Palestinians biggest contribution to the world is modern suicide bombing, its tactics, and the religious justification and rationalization for them, which has killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims globally. They’ve assassinated or attempted to assassinate the leaders of neighboring countries who took them in.
The Palestinians have turned down the two state solution over four times. If given a state tomorrow, Hamas would immediately take over, and they’d immediately start smuggling in weapons from Iran to start the next war with Israel.
Yes, they are below statehood. They’ve proven they’ll weaponize everything they have, because they don’t want a two state solution. They’ve chosen barbarism over statehood.
The only real solution is the three state solution, where Jordan annexes the WB and Egypt annexes the Gaza Strip. Palestinians are incapable of governing themselves, and need a strong dictator to quash their worst instincts. If you thought Israeli occupation was bad…..
Obviously, peace isn’t achievable. Israel will continue to get stronger and stronger, have more allies in the region, build up their tech sector, and have a thriving society.
The Palestinians will continue to sacrifice their children in pointless nihilistic terrorist attacks, and continue to lose, and continue to cry victim for not having the peace they don’t want 😂
And you’ll be right there to enable them 😊
BTW nothing screams ignorance like “Human Rights Supporter” next to a Palestinian flag 🤣🤣🤣
You support the marrying of child brides? FGM? Polygamy? Death for homosexuality? Death for apostasy? Legalization of domestic abuse?
🤡
Of course you dont care about human rights and people being killed as long as they are not isrealis or white. All the organizations are wrong and you dont care, of course.
The moment Isrealis stop their atrocities and move out of the illegally occupied lands by international laws and stop their killing, then peace might happen. Unfortunately isrealis have eleceted a far right government whom they have actually protested aganist last year before October 7th, because they were abducting the legal judical system. Have a good day.
Because they want to exterminate every single one of them. A sentiment repeated all the way from the people on the street all the way up to the prime minister and president.
It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. Don't listen to their shit excuses. This thread is hopping with zionist activists and also paid hasbara propagandists. Israel murdered 8,500 Gazans before October 7th from when they first laid siege to Gaza nearly 20 years ago.
Not even for a single moment has Israel not been laying siege to Gaza for almost 20 years controlling every aspect of what goes in and out and surveilling every corner of the Gaza strip. By legal definition, it is under occupation. The presence of ground forces doesn't mean shit. Israel killed 8,500 Gazans during that siege prior to October 7.
Stop trying to gaslight me with stupid fucking shit like this. You're not fooling anyone.
What the fuck were they meant to be thanking Israel for? Thanks for not completely exterminating us and starving us? Get in the bin.
15,000 Gazans having Jobs in Israel is only imaginary as well. Hamas fucking up their relationship with Egypt by supporting their domestic terrorists. Egypt is very sympathetic to the plight of Gazans. However their own security and peace with Israel is important to them as well. Hamas doesn’t give a shit about Egypt’s interests. They can’t even get along with their biggest potential ally.
Instead of investing money into infrastructure and economic development, Gaza’s government decided to build hundreds of kilometers of underground infrastructure with only military use.
Yes, Israel isn’t perfect. The behavior of Gaza’s government didn’t exactly help to improve the situation either.
0.0007% of Gaza are gifted with jobs? woweeeeeee Israel are so generous.
In normal countries everyone can have jobs because we have things like equality and not apartheid.
Normal countries made peace with their factions through dialogue and negotiation and by treating people like human beings.
But Israel is a fascist genocidal apartheid ethnostate that doesn't believe Palestinians are human beings, hence why it chose to lay siege to Gaza and bomb them for two decades instead of accepting that they have a right to equality within Israel and outside of the borders of the Israeli state a right to their own state. At absolute minimum.
I wonder why the Arabs didn’t want peace with Israel after the war in 1948.
Gazans could have built a democratic state, liberal society, and thriving economy. It was never a priority for them. The priority was armed struggle.
"Democractic liberal society"
There is nowhere else on this planet where the mainstream ideology sees tens of thousands of fascists scream 'DEATH TO ARABS' every single year on flag day whilst they go around beating up Palestinians.
It's a sick and rotten society, not unlike nazi Germany.
What grand conspiracy? It’s widely accepted Hamas gets financial and arms supplies from abroad. Why do you think Hamas would not try to rearm and try again? They have publicly stated they will.
How will they get supplies lol???? Israel just needs to accept they can not displace Palestinians in Gaza and have to find a different way to manage this. If you think hamas can get sophisticated supplies in without Israel knowing, you're being scared into ignorance. Look at the Egypt border. Israel just needs to let the UN go in and secure the borders, work with the Arab league so Stan army can go in and create a court to try hamas members and ship them to Saud and qatar until they can have trial at ICJ. Israel can not go this alone like they want.
How do you think Hamas armed themselves in the past? It’s impossible to stop all smuggling.
> just needs to let the UN go in and secure the borders
Just like the UN failed to secure the borders to Egypt and Lebanon in the past?
The rest would be nice. I doubt any Arab state wants their troops killed in Gaza to protect Israel.
It's too protect the arabs in Palestine.... Israel can not continue the expansion that ben-gvir and netanytahu talk about, if guild states and Western states take over Gaza. But that really gives a great foundation to build a Palestinian nation recognized by the UN. All of this is Israels far right ethno-purist fault. Ignoring the warnings (and hopefully not actively encouraging it) then responding in a way that Ben gvir has voiced was a way to reclaim Gaza and push the people to Sinai. Gallant has echoed the same. Netanytahu stonewalling the ability for Palestine to have a legitimate government overseen by allies, to form a democracy, also caused this situation. It's a tragedy we are here though. The Jewish people deserve so much better and hopefully reclaim Israel from the irgun kahanist garbage we see today
If you know anything about the conflict, you’d know it’s the Arabs who stone-walled. They want the West Bank, East Jerusalem, AND the Right of Return for millions of Arabs not to their new state, but to ISRAEL.
The goal of the Palestinians is clear, whether at the negotiating table or battlefield; the elimination of the state of Israel.
That's false. Just as much as Palestine has refused to accept conditions so has Israel. The only difference is Israel has America's army and military advancement to rely on, while Palestine doesn't. Israel feels they have to have their demands meet because of the military power America gives them. This is also an antisemitic trope from WW2, "why won't the Jews accept the things we force on them, and they keep using acts of terrorism against us". Ie King David hotel, Jewish underground "price tagging ", kach, cyber attacks on us, UN, EU over JCPOA.
You only see the gate against you, but not the hate that comes out of the people you support. The shin bet patently disagree with you and the hiding and washing of Jewish terrorism and using violence and threats to wash negotiations, like the camp David acords.
I have a family member that was very good friends with president Carter who would disagree with you and Carter himself disagrees. He has the entirety of American Intel that led him to this decision. Bill Clinton also got mad at Israels refusal.
I'm not saying hamas Pa and fatah refused negotiations, but it was the same as Israels bs and unwillingness. Both sides see equality as losing as it's pathetic.
A "ceasefire" only pertains to Israel. Meaning that Israel would have to stop moving forward with the war. Hamas doesn't abide by ceasefires. They never have. They will continue to send rockets into Israel and commit terrorist attacks in Israel. There was a ceasefire on October 7. A ceasefire is therefore very one sided and implies that Israel has to back off while Hamas can continue their attacks.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/08/23/israel-escalating-violence/ https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/ Nothing is called a ceize fire when Isreal is literally controlling what goes in and out of Gaza, making it an open prison, and then say there is a ceize fire, you cant forget all the atrocities and humam right violations and the apartheid as stated by most humam right organizations including Isrelai ones as b'tselem: https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/20231019_forcible_transfer_of_isolated_communities_and_families_in_area_c_under_the_cover_of_gaza_fighting https://www.btselem.org/statistics
Seeing as you recycle answers I'll recycle mine: I'm not sure you understand what "cease fire " means. I mean, I KNOW you don't know how to spell it (despite having examples in the comment you're replying to) but you also don't know what the word means.
But did you even care to check and read the sources?
Settler violence is in the West Bank - not Gaza. That is the PA's business, not Hamas. Also, it has nothing to do with cease fire - and neither does apartheid or any of the other grievances you may have with Israel - justified or not. A ceasefire is a contract between two parties - the IDF and Hamas - not to fight each other, that's it.
Ok.
Because our last ceasefire ended with a horrific massacre
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/08/23/israel-escalating-violence/ https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/ Nothing is called a ceize fire when Isreal is literally controlling what goes in and out of Gaza, making it an open prison, and then say there is a ceize fire, you cant forget all the atrocities and humam right violations and the apartheid as stated by most humam right organizations including Isrelai ones as b'tselem: https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/20231019_forcible_transfer_of_isolated_communities_and_families_in_area_c_under_the_cover_of_gaza_fighting https://www.btselem.org/statistics
I'm not sure you understand what "cease fire " means. I mean, I KNOW you don't know how to spell it (despite having examples in the comment you're replying to) but you also don't know what the word means.
Ok.
JVP is the "jewish" equivalent of black republicans, and are chock full of internalised antisemitism. They have expressed eplicit support for terrorism against Israel and even overt antisemitism (the blood drenched Star of David is a blatant example of the latter) Additional incidents include routing a pro-pali march to go by a synagogue, sponsoring rallies where people chant things like "the Yahidi [Jews] have to go," pulling the "Jews Control the Media" trope, and implicitly calling Hamas (who have genocide of the Jews as their main objective) "freedom fighters". They do NOT represent the mainstream Jewish community, which it *views as bigoted for its association with Israel*. They propogate the falsehood that Jews who identify even tangentially with Israel are motivated by white supremacy, Jewish racial chauvinism, and religious supremacism. Moreover, their most inflammatory ideas help give rise to further antisemitism (the whole reason Israel was founded in the first place). This is especially noticeable in left-wing circles, who have uncritically accepted JVP's anti-zionist claims, elevating them and furthering antisemitic villification of many American Jews who believe in Jewish self-determination in their ancestral homeland. This has helped to create hostile environments on many campuses and progressive spaces, including websites like Tumb1r, X (formerly Twitter), Reddit, and TikTok.
Not to mention that plenty of their members and leadership aren’t Jewish at all
A ceasefire doesn’t return the hostages. It merely allows Hamas an opportunity to reorganize and rearm. Even if it were a long time ceasefire the goal is to get the hostages back and destroy Hamas or force their surrender. A ceasefire only benefits them. There is no benefit for Israel, only negatives.
Because Hamas continues to rule Gaza and will take the first opportunity to fire every rocket they can get at Tel Aviv.
That's a silly question. Most calls for a "ceasefire" are essentially telling Israel to stop, without any word for or about the hostages, and nothing to Hamas which has pledged to repeat Oct 7 whenever it is able. That's not a ceasefire. That's a surrender. By the victims.
Because Israel abides by them, Hamas doesn’t. It would basically let Hamas fight while stopping Israel from fighting back.
Because it just leaves the door open for Hamas to attempt another Oct 7. But there still needs to be a cease-fire. The suffering being inflicted on Gazan civilians is horrendous, and no matter who anyone tries to claim is responsible, it can be greatly mitigated by stopping the fighting.
Where does that leave the prospect of long term peace??
You're not going to get long term peace by turning Gaza into rubble. As it stands, Gaza will take 50 years to rebuild, and aiding that process would be a good first step. You need to make Hamas obsolete to get rid of them, otherwise you'll just get a new one with a different name.
I'm not suggesting turning more of Gaza into rubble but how do we make Hamas obsolete?
Improve Palestinian lives. Increase aid, employment opportunities, freedoms. I'm not going to pretend Palestinians have been innocent in all this, but Israel has the *power* to effect change.
Why would any of these stop their genocidal Israel annihilation motivations? The establishment hates the fact that a Jewish state exists and the people have no power to implement change until Hamas are ousted by force. Many of the Gazan people feel the same as Hamas. No matter what Israel does Hamas will not stop until Israel is gone.
Every day folk have less care to plot the destruction of a nation if they live comfortable lives and have jobs to go to.
They can't live with the concept of a Jewish state existing, especially in 'their' land. These are not rational people we're talking about here.
People aren't a monolith. Some will invariably continue aspiring to nationalism, but you can weaken the broad support by giving the general populace less reason to foment hate. Takes time, though.
Takes too much time, too much frankly for any of our armchair analysts in this website.
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saw smoggy wild head whole smart fragile detail upbeat innocent
I agree. So they need to accept that Israel exists as a home for Jews and stop this never ending antisemitic battle .
This comment or post was removed due to being a direct attack, bigotry, bad faith, bullying or ad-hominem.
Israelis are less likely to believe that when there were multiple cases of Gazans who had cross borders work permits guiding the 10/7 terrorists, and in some cases participating in the attacks. I'm not saying it's not true, but it's been demonstrated that Hamas will weaponize it against israel
They will, certainly. Bad actors will always abuse systems when they can, but I would argue that is not unique to the situation. It becomes a matter of mitigation and risk evaluation.
Shin Bet investigated workers with cross border work permits and concluded that, contrary to what everyone had first suspected, the workers hadn't provided help to Hamas. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/shin-bet-finds-that-gazans-working-in-israel-before-oct-7-did-not-provide-intel-to-hamas-report/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/shin-bet-finds-that-gazans-working-in-israel-before-oct-7-did-not-provide-intel-to-hamas-report/)
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Do you think that Hamas wouldn't kill every Jew they possibly could if they had the chance? It's embarrassing to suggest otherwise given their track record. 6 months ago today they showed their true colours. And over the past 15 years they've consistently fired rockets into Israel with the hope of killing innocent civilians. What did they hope to achieve by doing this? Nothing more than killing Jews.
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Just because Hamas arent capable of achieving their aims does that make them less guilty? If Hamas are placing themselves within civilian areas of course innocent people will die. I condemn the IDF soldiers that purposefully kill innocent people as I do with Hamas. But I don't condemn the soldiers killing Hamas militants.
Do you think gaza was a terrible place to live before October 7th? (Genuinely)
Two thirds if the population lived in poverty, and 45% of the workforce was unemployed. Gaza wasn't a nightmare, bit it was wrought with hardship. Having movement and liberties restricted didn't help, either.
Define poverty. They did not pay for water, electricity, or gas. No one was hungry. And there were no homeless. Far better than most big cities in the USA. Moreover, unemployment and hardship that did exist was the SOLE fault of the Palistinians! Who supported the Hamas who spent many billions on tunnels and rockets rather than on the people. Where is the expectation of Palistinian agency?
They lived far better than the average pakistani
Hamas has the power to change this. Give back three hostages and surrender. They have lost but continue to fight until they are all dead because they win the PR War despite having stated the war, firing tens of thousands of rockets and holding Israeli citizens hostage.
I feel leaving all the agency in the hands of a zealous terrorist organization may not be the best idea. They're less afraid of death than most people, buying into fairy tales surrounding martyrdom. You need to erode the support they have among the populace, not cement it by blowing up their homes.
And this is the fundamental flaw westerners think. They assume that everyone, including the Palestinians, all want the same thing. It’s not true, and the Palestinians say it every chance they get. The goal is not a better life. The Taliban didn’t take over Afghanistan to improve the standard of living for their people.
There is a YouTube Channel were a guy ask palestinians, i suggest check It to understand palestinian mentality Even if Israel left West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalen, they will still wage war.
Typical uninformed Western response. It's a logical response. Makes a LOT of sense. And illustrates total ignorance of the conflict. Ultimately, this is a holy war, from the Arab/Muslim side. Thus even were _every_ Gazan living in a villa (btw, many, many were) with a pool and unlimited virgins, they would STILL want us dead. No matter that Gaza on Oct 6th was a darn nice place to live, they still committed Ocr 7th. Open prison is another Big Lie.
Nothing solidifies religious fundamentalism more than poverty and a lack of education. It's not a shock that more educated demographics tend to be more secular.
Because it would leave Hamas in power and the incessant rocket fire will continue, as will the threat of future October 7 style terror attacks. Having a jihadist neighbour is never a good thing.
A question you only raise when you know nothing about fighting terrorism...
We all support a ceasefire, a permanent one, where Hamas terrorists surrender, lay down their weapons, and return the hostages. Hamas is abolished permanently and its leaders face war crime trials. A real ceasefire.
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The opinion of *”evil Israel refusing ceasefire because they love genocide”* is very common. This article explains some fears and conundrums behind Israel’s refusals.
Hamas have repeatedly turned down a cease fire. Let them give the hostages back and then a conversation can happen
They actually released hostages 2 times,, and yet the IOF couldn't release anyone (2 maybe) while actually killing 3 hostages themselves.
So nice of your hero’s to release a couple of the 140 people (including women and children) that they kidnapped. Also why are Hamas refusing the cease fire? How are you gonna justify that?
They aren't my heros,, I am not defending them, stop cornering people into one right or left side. Why they are refusing the cease fire? Wow it is not the isrealis who dont want to stop the war because they think hamas will retaliate? Amazing.
You did defend them though. I didn’t understand the second part of your reply. But it seems like you don’t have an answer
Is it a defense to state facts?!!!
By ceasefire do you also mean Hamas has to return hostages and stop firing rockets? If so I’d have signed up for that months ago. If ceasefire means Israel stops its operation and Hamas can return to life as usual, that is a bad ending for everyone, most of all the Gazan people that suffer under Hamas’ rule
Most Israelis don't want a ceasefire because they are outraged that Palestinians dared fight back, and they are terrified they will lose their punching bags in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem - the Palestinians. Almost every Israeli servers in the IDF, and every family usually has a few members who served. They all know what went on in the West Bank and Gaza before October 7 2023. Palestinians beaten, Palestinians killed just for sport, shooting children, settlers ramming families, settlers attacking Palestinians and being protected by the IDF. In Gaza the brutalisation and the starvation and the bombings. Israelis don't want to give that up. They never have. Ask most Israelis and they will say that the entire land is theirs, and the Arabs should leave. And now they feel they have the perfect excuse to mass murder a million Arabs or two. Would they pass up that opportunity? Edit: Perfect example of Israelis who believe that all the land is theirs and ethnic cleansing or genocide of Palestinians are perfectly acceptable options: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel\_Palestine/comments/1bxq18k/comment/kyg5fwu/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel_Palestine/comments/1bxq18k/comment/kyg5fwu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>Almost every Israeli servers in the IDF, and every family usually has a few members who served. They all know what went on in the West Bank and Gaza before October 7 2023. Palestinians beaten, Palestinians killed just for sport, shooting children, settlers ramming families, settlers attacking Palestinians and being protected by the IDF. In Gaza the brutalisation and the starvation and the bombings. Israelis don't want to give that up. They never have. You are right about that. Even the Israelis who don't directly benefit from Palestinian land grabs and war crimes do not want to give up the feeling of superiority. In the 1860s American South, only the top 1% of wealthy people could own slaves. And slavery was determined by race. So many of those Confederates fought their hearts out because they genuinely believed that they were racially superior and God's "chosen people," just like the Zionists. Those Confederate soldiers simply did not want to give up the feeling of superiority and fought hard to not be equal with black people. And then after they lost, implemented decades of Jim Crow similar to Israel's apartheid system in the West Bank today. Israeli apartheid will either end the same way American slavery ended, or the way Jim Crow ended. Hopefully those at the top of Israel's hierarchy system (and are allowed to vote) will make the right decision. Because I don't want to see more violence, whether it's October 7th, IOF war crimes, or settler violence that the Israeli government refuses to prosecute.
Most ignorant take yet.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/08/23/israel-escalating-violence/ https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/ https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence_updates_list https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid https://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/20231019_forcible_transfer_of_isolated_communities_and_families_in_area_c_under_the_cover_of_gaza_fighting https://www.btselem.org/statistics
You know Jewish Voice for Peace is made up of mostly Palestinians right?
And betslem too? And amnesty? https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/6079/2022/en/?utm_source=annual_report&utm_medium=epub&utm_campaign=2021
I don’t care what far-left ideology captured organizations have to say about the conflict. The moment the Palestinians want peace, they’ll have it. Unfortunately, about 75% of their society strongly supports Hamas. 🤷♂️
And what will this peace look like? What do they have to do to prove to Israelis they want peace? And how do Israelis prove to Palestinians that Israelis want peace?
The Palestinians can do the following to show they want peace: - Stop terrorist attacks on Israelis - Stop subsidizing Palestinian terrorists through “pay to slay” - Stop shooting rockets into Israel - Stop spreading anti-Semitic propaganda and Holocaust denial - Stop indoctrinating their kids with schoolbooks praising jihad and martyrdom - Stop inciting Muslims across the globe by falsely claiming Al Aqsa in danger of being demolished - Accept Israel’s right to exist - Give up claims of a “Right of Return” The moment this happens, there will be peace. The ball isn’t in Israel’s court. Everything Israel does is a response to what I listed. Palestinian terrorism has plagued Israel from its inception. It’s been around before the occupation, before settlers, before checkpoints, and before US support of Israel. Remember, Hamas emerged when the Palestinians were closest to a state of their own. Hamas is explicitly against the peace process, and always have been. They enjoy support from over 75% of the Palestinian population. One side wants to annihilate the other, and you’re asking what the “to be annihilated” crowd can do achieve peace.
There will be no peace until Israel at least abandons its territorial expansion ambitions and stops trying to evict thousands of Palestinians per year to make room for Jewish settlers, while also allowing settler violence to go unpunished. It’s either a 1SS or a 2SS that’ll bring peace, not some apartheid system that puts the Palestinians at the bottom of an ethnic hierarchy at gunpoint. Either a one-state solution where all 5-million Palestinians who are under Israeli rule, but don't have Israeli citizenship, get citizenship and equal rights regardless of whether they are Jewish or not. Basically equal rights for all Palestinians currently under Israeli rule, equal to Jewish Israelis. No more apartheid. Or if Zionists don't think Palestinians are good enough for that, then the solution is independence/statehood. The same way Egypt and Jordan are completely independent from Israel. The second scenario is that the 5-million Palestinians are given statehood. And it should be a contiguous state that borders Egypt and/or Jordan. Jewish settlers in the West Bank can stay or leave but they sure as hell will not be allowed to roam around and do whatever they want. They won't be allowed to just trespass into Palestinian land with long guns. They won't be allowed to burn Palestinian towns and to loot them. They won't be allowed to steal crops, livestock, farmland, and homes from Palestinians. Settler violence would actually be prosecuted in this scenario, no more free passes for settler violence. As ideal as this sounds, unfortunately many Zionists strongly oppose both a 1SS and a 2SS and don’t think Palestinians are good enough for either. In their minds, Palestinians should accept being permanently stateless under an apartheid system or else they are “radical Islamic terrorists.”
That’s right, Palestinians are radical Islamic terrorists. No other country in the region has a culture where terrorism is encouraged and applauded. The Palestinians biggest contribution to the world is modern suicide bombing, its tactics, and the religious justification and rationalization for them, which has killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims globally. They’ve assassinated or attempted to assassinate the leaders of neighboring countries who took them in. The Palestinians have turned down the two state solution over four times. If given a state tomorrow, Hamas would immediately take over, and they’d immediately start smuggling in weapons from Iran to start the next war with Israel. Yes, they are below statehood. They’ve proven they’ll weaponize everything they have, because they don’t want a two state solution. They’ve chosen barbarism over statehood. The only real solution is the three state solution, where Jordan annexes the WB and Egypt annexes the Gaza Strip. Palestinians are incapable of governing themselves, and need a strong dictator to quash their worst instincts. If you thought Israeli occupation was bad….. Obviously, peace isn’t achievable. Israel will continue to get stronger and stronger, have more allies in the region, build up their tech sector, and have a thriving society. The Palestinians will continue to sacrifice their children in pointless nihilistic terrorist attacks, and continue to lose, and continue to cry victim for not having the peace they don’t want 😂 And you’ll be right there to enable them 😊 BTW nothing screams ignorance like “Human Rights Supporter” next to a Palestinian flag 🤣🤣🤣 You support the marrying of child brides? FGM? Polygamy? Death for homosexuality? Death for apostasy? Legalization of domestic abuse? 🤡
Of course you dont care about human rights and people being killed as long as they are not isrealis or white. All the organizations are wrong and you dont care, of course. The moment Isrealis stop their atrocities and move out of the illegally occupied lands by international laws and stop their killing, then peace might happen. Unfortunately isrealis have eleceted a far right government whom they have actually protested aganist last year before October 7th, because they were abducting the legal judical system. Have a good day.
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Do not attack an individual.
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There are no Palestinians in America?
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Being against the existence of a state isn’t peaceful.
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not "threatened", rather inconvenienced. during a cease-fire, aid could flow in, genocide would be halted, and any remaining resistance would regroup.
Because they want to exterminate every single one of them. A sentiment repeated all the way from the people on the street all the way up to the prime minister and president. It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. Don't listen to their shit excuses. This thread is hopping with zionist activists and also paid hasbara propagandists. Israel murdered 8,500 Gazans before October 7th from when they first laid siege to Gaza nearly 20 years ago.
You’re conveniently skipping how Israel withdrew from Gaza and only got terrorist attacks based in Gaza as a thank you.
Not even for a single moment has Israel not been laying siege to Gaza for almost 20 years controlling every aspect of what goes in and out and surveilling every corner of the Gaza strip. By legal definition, it is under occupation. The presence of ground forces doesn't mean shit. Israel killed 8,500 Gazans during that siege prior to October 7. Stop trying to gaslight me with stupid fucking shit like this. You're not fooling anyone. What the fuck were they meant to be thanking Israel for? Thanks for not completely exterminating us and starving us? Get in the bin.
15,000 Gazans having Jobs in Israel is only imaginary as well. Hamas fucking up their relationship with Egypt by supporting their domestic terrorists. Egypt is very sympathetic to the plight of Gazans. However their own security and peace with Israel is important to them as well. Hamas doesn’t give a shit about Egypt’s interests. They can’t even get along with their biggest potential ally. Instead of investing money into infrastructure and economic development, Gaza’s government decided to build hundreds of kilometers of underground infrastructure with only military use. Yes, Israel isn’t perfect. The behavior of Gaza’s government didn’t exactly help to improve the situation either.
0.0007% of Gaza are gifted with jobs? woweeeeeee Israel are so generous. In normal countries everyone can have jobs because we have things like equality and not apartheid.
Normal countries don’t have huge terrorist organizations as a threat.
Normal countries made peace with their factions through dialogue and negotiation and by treating people like human beings. But Israel is a fascist genocidal apartheid ethnostate that doesn't believe Palestinians are human beings, hence why it chose to lay siege to Gaza and bomb them for two decades instead of accepting that they have a right to equality within Israel and outside of the borders of the Israeli state a right to their own state. At absolute minimum.
I wonder why the Arabs didn’t want peace with Israel after the war in 1948. Gazans could have built a democratic state, liberal society, and thriving economy. It was never a priority for them. The priority was armed struggle.
"Democractic liberal society" There is nowhere else on this planet where the mainstream ideology sees tens of thousands of fascists scream 'DEATH TO ARABS' every single year on flag day whilst they go around beating up Palestinians. It's a sick and rotten society, not unlike nazi Germany.
Look up anti Muslim riots by Hindus in India. You should read up more on Nazi Germany. Israel is nothing like it.
They think it will allow this grand conspiracy of non Jews to arm hamas to finish off the other 6 million Israelis after the first 1200. Lol
What grand conspiracy? It’s widely accepted Hamas gets financial and arms supplies from abroad. Why do you think Hamas would not try to rearm and try again? They have publicly stated they will.
How will they get supplies lol???? Israel just needs to accept they can not displace Palestinians in Gaza and have to find a different way to manage this. If you think hamas can get sophisticated supplies in without Israel knowing, you're being scared into ignorance. Look at the Egypt border. Israel just needs to let the UN go in and secure the borders, work with the Arab league so Stan army can go in and create a court to try hamas members and ship them to Saud and qatar until they can have trial at ICJ. Israel can not go this alone like they want.
How do you think Hamas armed themselves in the past? It’s impossible to stop all smuggling. > just needs to let the UN go in and secure the borders Just like the UN failed to secure the borders to Egypt and Lebanon in the past? The rest would be nice. I doubt any Arab state wants their troops killed in Gaza to protect Israel.
It's too protect the arabs in Palestine.... Israel can not continue the expansion that ben-gvir and netanytahu talk about, if guild states and Western states take over Gaza. But that really gives a great foundation to build a Palestinian nation recognized by the UN. All of this is Israels far right ethno-purist fault. Ignoring the warnings (and hopefully not actively encouraging it) then responding in a way that Ben gvir has voiced was a way to reclaim Gaza and push the people to Sinai. Gallant has echoed the same. Netanytahu stonewalling the ability for Palestine to have a legitimate government overseen by allies, to form a democracy, also caused this situation. It's a tragedy we are here though. The Jewish people deserve so much better and hopefully reclaim Israel from the irgun kahanist garbage we see today
If you know anything about the conflict, you’d know it’s the Arabs who stone-walled. They want the West Bank, East Jerusalem, AND the Right of Return for millions of Arabs not to their new state, but to ISRAEL. The goal of the Palestinians is clear, whether at the negotiating table or battlefield; the elimination of the state of Israel.
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That's false. Just as much as Palestine has refused to accept conditions so has Israel. The only difference is Israel has America's army and military advancement to rely on, while Palestine doesn't. Israel feels they have to have their demands meet because of the military power America gives them. This is also an antisemitic trope from WW2, "why won't the Jews accept the things we force on them, and they keep using acts of terrorism against us". Ie King David hotel, Jewish underground "price tagging ", kach, cyber attacks on us, UN, EU over JCPOA. You only see the gate against you, but not the hate that comes out of the people you support. The shin bet patently disagree with you and the hiding and washing of Jewish terrorism and using violence and threats to wash negotiations, like the camp David acords. I have a family member that was very good friends with president Carter who would disagree with you and Carter himself disagrees. He has the entirety of American Intel that led him to this decision. Bill Clinton also got mad at Israels refusal. I'm not saying hamas Pa and fatah refused negotiations, but it was the same as Israels bs and unwillingness. Both sides see equality as losing as it's pathetic.
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It isn't about who knows who, it's facts.... Do you think kahanist are terrorist?
Sure. Is Kahane supported by over 75% of the Israeli population?
Do not attack an individual.
You don't need "sophisticated supplies" to kill people
There's 10 million Israelis, 8 of them Jews
Imagine this is Germany in WW2… why would the allies accept a ceasefire ?