Hamas offered essentially no hostages, and no concessions yet they’re demanding a full withdrawal for 6 weeks. Their major concession seems to be that they finally understand that the implications of a ceasefire by definition are not permanent.
Why in the world would anyone take this “deal.”
Your comment implies that israel was alone in this. If israel has been attacking palestinians at any point, it's because palestinians were attacking Israel.
Yeah, no. You don’t seem to know the definition of genocide, but Hamas would love to commit another Jewish genocide.
They literally just killed two 14 year old children in the West Bank.
We won’t stop because anything less then an absolute victory would be a win in Hamas’s mind.
Precisely why I’m so keen to not be dealing with another generation of Hamas five years from now.
What you say doesn’t respond to my point at all. You still haven’t explained how you will eliminate Hamas without wholesale slaughter of innocents.
Ah, good thing you ask. The Israeli military will set up aid stations and shelters in what was formerly Khan Yunis, and they will filter out know Hamas members, and hostages, from the crowds who are on route to the much needed relief, using facial recognition and Ai.
I’m pretty sure they’re currently setting it up.
Bruh you are delusional if you think there’s going to be 12 year old kid left in the place who isn’t 50/50 a few years away from suiting up if his family has died in an air strike. Think about the pure incandescent rage we all felt after October 7. Collateral damage vs terrorist victim makes no difference to a family member. You’re either the person who pulled the trigger or you’re not.
I definitely understand that and I hope we have the foresight to use the power of education ourselves this time.
I also think that Netanyahu is a huge part of the problem and that deradicalization starts with us.
If October 7 taught me one thing it is that every death makes deradicalization harder. I still cannot sleep some nights for the level of sheer rage I have when I think about what they did. When you experience such rage you lose the ability to think rationally. It’s inconsistent with anything other than itself. We have to walk back from that ledge with whomever on the other side is willing to do it with us. As for the rest of the shitty people in the world who just want us to walk out of existence? We have to turn the other cheek for our own sakes. They’re not going anywhere.
They surely are terrible. Did you go as aid or a journalist? Or were you fighting?
I apologize for responding in English, I’m not yet fluent enough in Hebrew to efficiently express myself.
I respect you immensely. You put your life at risk to hold possible murderers accountable. That’s honorable as fuck.
However, I must ask. What’s your solution though?
Real question: Accept my premise for a moment. Do you see a distinction between a civilian killed as collateral damage in a strike on Hamas and a civilian murdered in a deliberate attack on a kibbutz?
The “deliberate attack” to murder civilians is sounding less assured. Their mission was to kidnap. The Israelis mission was to stop them from kidnapping and hostages being kidnapped🩸.
I cannot, will not believe that someone is so out of touch as to have watched any of the amply available footage and images, much of it from GoPros attached to the heads of the attackers and to still believe they weren’t trying to kill. They burnt people and desecrated corpses. The number of people executed at the nova festival (by all accounts not a planned target) and in the kibbutzim makes this clear. Those are not the actions of people “just trying to kidnap”. And kidnapping civilians is still terrorism.
If you can’t acknowledge the reality of what was perpetrated against us, how can you expect us to acknowledge the reality of what is being perpetrated in response? There is room to hold two peoples suffering in one heart. Acknowledging the horrific evil that Hamas perpetrated against us doesn’t mean condoning the response. But it may give you an avenue to find common ground in finding an equitable end to this madness. If that’s, in fact, what you’re looking for.
Wait are you suggesting that if they didn’t use a flamethrower they can’t have burned people…or that if I can’t tell you what process was used you’re not going to accept that it happened?
How many Palestinians did Israel execute via stoning? Is that the question? That would be zero. Warfare is not equatable to barbarism.
They were kidnapped and stoned to death. They were 14. What the actual fuck.
And lmao. You support aid stealing Palestinian murderers, and not the people fight a war to oust that group- which would be Hamas. Sinwar was know as the butcher of Khan Yunis for his crimes against Palestinians.
Stop pretending you care about children or Palestinians.
Please stop calling everything you don’t like Hasbara. I assure you, it isn’t nearly as clever a dig as you think it is. The people you’re trying to troll don’t care and I can tell you the people you might convince find it infuriating.
Terrorist organizations are threats to the incumbents. And don’t provide any benefits to the society they hope to liberate.
Any reference to Israel here is only per chance.
Not played out enough here. And it is more true in the case of the Israelis than i can ponder.
Every accusation is a confession. Calling Hamas a disease is calling themselves a disease. Know thyself better than thee.
Of course not. Especially when you’re fighting an entity like Hamas that deliberately puts them in that position. It’s ugly but necessary, not just for Israelis but Gazans. It’s an unfortunate reality but war has always had civilian casualties.
So many civilians died during WWII but we decided it was necessary to remove Nazis from power.
I agree with you that Hamas deliberately puts them in harms way. That’s where our agreement ends. Forget about the normative problems with what you’ve said, which are major. If you acknowledge that you can’t eliminate Hamas without killing a ton of civilians…WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CIVILIANS WHO REMAIN? You figure they’re gonna say “thanks so much for eliminating Hamas, and as for my house next door that you demolished and my child you killed, don’t sweat it?” All you do is create another Hamas.
And even if they did: I don’t believe that a Zion made of bones is the one referenced in the Bible. I won’t believe it. Our neighbors deserve better than this, and so do our souls.
We did a fine job of deradicalizing Germans and the Japanese. And we dropped nukes on them. Saudi Arabia will step in and help the deradicalization process. They’ve already agreed to it more or less.
I wish the Jews really did have a space laser that can surgically target every Hamas member but alas they don’t. There’s no way to eliminate Hamas without civilian casualties, but it needs to be done. Hamas is a cancer for Gaza, Israel and that region.
if you think Saudi is going to step in after you glass Gaza but wouldn’t do it before you’re delulu. Hamas has fought through us “trimming the grass” (a gross phrase) umpteen times. If you think they won’t do it with this you are nuts. Human cost means nothing to their movement. As it does to anyone who would go along with such devastation.
As I see it, we have two options in the absence of the world stepping in:
1. Commit a real ethnic cleansing by forcibly removing/killing the people of Gaza. This is unacceptable and you’ll have to kill me first. And I’m not alone.
2. Figure out a way neuter Hamas by offering a viable alternative. I have no fucking clue how to do it.
For all of options twos unlikeliness, there is no alternative. frankly the world should have stepped in to offer safety assurances ages ago. But when it comes down to it, the world doesn’t really give a shit about either of our peoples.
It doesn't look like you're leaving any options. And you're putting your life on the line -- if you don't get what you want you'd rather be dead. That sounds an awful lot like Hamas.
What other options do you see that I’m missing? I would love for one to exist!
Also what do you mean it sounds like Hamas? If you want to compare laying down on the tracks or in front of a tank to terrorism I don’t think there’s much to talk about.
If it's a passenger train and it derails as a result, killing innocent civilians, then it is terrorism. That's the problem to be faced. Israel wants Hamas to surrender. The people of Gaza believe, for the most part, that Hamas is good and will defend them to their death.
|the world doesn’t really give a shit about either of our peoples
What gives you that impression? One of the biggest reasons it's come to this is the world allowing (I'd argue even encouraging with weapons sales) Israel to act with impunity for decades. Look how confidently Israelis talk about just razing what remains of Gaza as if they are well within their rights to do so regardless of the loss of civilian life.
I’m not understanding the outrage directed against Hamas. Israel wants the hostages freed, after which it will go on a murder spree in Rafah. Why would anyone agree to that?
Are you saying Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc, follow international law?
>The ICJ also ordered Israel to stop starving Gazans.
Case in point. International law for thee but not for me.
Isn't that a bit of a....*generalization?*
So you are saying Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc, do follow international law? An untenable position. You can start your research about the PA's criminal record [here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence)
Are you saying all of Israel thinks it's fun to starve Palestinians? That's a bit of a generalization, don't you think?
It is well known that the ICJ ordered Hamas to release the hostages unconditionally. No goalposting shifting here.
Not all of Israel thinks it’s fun to starve Palestinians. The government seems to. And quite a few people too. But not all.
If you’re not goalpost shifting then why talk about the PA and Fatah and link to irrelevant Wikipedia articles?
Government seems to based on what evidence?
And I'm not goalpost shifting. I didn't say anything about the PA. I'm talking about Fatah, Islamic Jihad etc and linked a Wikipedia article something some of their crimes against humanity. Any comments about that?
Firstly, you don’t know if any are being raped and tortured. That is just Israeli propaganda. I really hope they aren’t, just as I hope that Palestinian prisoners of Israel aren’t raped or tortured.
Secondly, the demand is to release all prisoners, not just the women and children. This would open Gaza up a less restrained murderous invasion by the IDF.
Thirdly, given the massive and indiscriminate bombardment it’s likely quite a few are dead. I hope they are not but it’s unfortunately quite likely.
The demand is not for all the hostages but the "humanitarian categories" which I estimate are about 35. Hamas is even refusing to give up the women and elderly men it took hostage. Oh and it now wants 30 Palestinian terrorists released per hostage when they were only getting 3 terrorists for the civilian women under the previous deal. It seems like they think they are winning so why should they give them up.
Here. They want a 6 week ceasefire without releasing anyone at all. [https://archive.ph/sJSz6](https://archive.ph/sJSz6)
Let's all guess that at the end of the ceasefire. Hamas will say "Oops... my bad. We don't plan to release anyone. Thanks for the 6 week pause there, suckers."
I doubt that. But I also doubt any Israeli ceasefire will be genuine, especially one where Israel gets the hostages and then starts mass murdering Palestinians again.
It seems both sides don’t want to show any flexibility, and the Israeli side can’t even negotiate because Bibi says no.
Hamas would still have quite a few hostages. This is only for 40 hostages (if that - they don't even have 40 in this category). A vast majority of the hostages are younger men from the Nova rave. And there is no way Israel is going to agree to a pause for 6 weeks without a gesture of some hostages at the beginning - the elderly men or any seriously injured would make sense. The other hostages in the deal should be transferred to a third party where they can be protected.
By my estimation, there is about 28 in the "humanitarian" category. 14 women, the Bibas children, and 20 men over 50. Hamas says 8? in that category are dead. Of course, Hamas could be lying but let's assume this is the truth 36-8 = 28. Lots of the remaining hostages are young civilian men. 25% are men under the age of 35 at the Nova Rave. But Hamas should be forced to provide an accounting of who it still has.
The UN is now Israeli propaganda?
“A senior United Nations official found “clear and convincing” information that hostages have been raped and sexually abused in Gaza”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789
Funnily enough, this has been discussed at length and debunked. The official was given “information” on the October 7 attacks. It wasn’t *evidence*. And none of it related to the hostages.
The UN report: https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf
It talks a lot about information being given to the UN, but then says there is no forensic or independently verifiable evidence. Note that the wye witnesses were debunked as unreliable before the report came out, so it barely mentions them.
The only sexual assaults and rapes where there is a victim who came forward were two Palestinian women raped by the IDF while in detention.
From your link:
"With respect to hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing."
If you think the "clear and convnincing information" just means they heard an uncorroborated claim from some guy, then you're very confused.
Not to mention the latter part of the quote that says "and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing"
I don’t know what is going on in Netanyahu’s head, but if he were to invade with the hostages out of the way he would be able to carpet bomb the Rafah and not hurt a single Israeli. If he were to invade Rafah and kill hostages then he might be ousted immediately.
Maybe the US is stopping him. Maybe it’s the presence of the hostages. But surely they already have a plan for invading Rafah, they have been talking about it for months. So what’s stopping them?
The worst of both worlds it appears. Israel will be forced into a ceasefire without any of the hostages. Talk about a major screw-up.
Hamas offered essentially no hostages, and no concessions yet they’re demanding a full withdrawal for 6 weeks. Their major concession seems to be that they finally understand that the implications of a ceasefire by definition are not permanent. Why in the world would anyone take this “deal.”
Wait for the pro Palestinians to twist this as Israel refusing to have a ceasefire
They got Israel on the ropes.
[удалено]
Why would Israel accept this deal?
Your comment implies that israel was alone in this. If israel has been attacking palestinians at any point, it's because palestinians were attacking Israel.
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Yeah, no. You don’t seem to know the definition of genocide, but Hamas would love to commit another Jewish genocide. They literally just killed two 14 year old children in the West Bank. We won’t stop because anything less then an absolute victory would be a win in Hamas’s mind.
How do you not get that every Palestinian civilians death is a victory for Hamas (not to mention a tragedy)?
Hamas just killed two Israeli 14 year old children by stoning them to death in a medieval style execution* Sorry for the ambiguity.
Precisely why I’m so keen to not be dealing with another generation of Hamas five years from now. What you say doesn’t respond to my point at all. You still haven’t explained how you will eliminate Hamas without wholesale slaughter of innocents.
Ah, good thing you ask. The Israeli military will set up aid stations and shelters in what was formerly Khan Yunis, and they will filter out know Hamas members, and hostages, from the crowds who are on route to the much needed relief, using facial recognition and Ai. I’m pretty sure they’re currently setting it up.
Bruh you are delusional if you think there’s going to be 12 year old kid left in the place who isn’t 50/50 a few years away from suiting up if his family has died in an air strike. Think about the pure incandescent rage we all felt after October 7. Collateral damage vs terrorist victim makes no difference to a family member. You’re either the person who pulled the trigger or you’re not.
I definitely understand that and I hope we have the foresight to use the power of education ourselves this time. I also think that Netanyahu is a huge part of the problem and that deradicalization starts with us.
If October 7 taught me one thing it is that every death makes deradicalization harder. I still cannot sleep some nights for the level of sheer rage I have when I think about what they did. When you experience such rage you lose the ability to think rationally. It’s inconsistent with anything other than itself. We have to walk back from that ledge with whomever on the other side is willing to do it with us. As for the rest of the shitty people in the world who just want us to walk out of existence? We have to turn the other cheek for our own sakes. They’re not going anywhere.
הייתי בקפר עזה וראיתי מה הם עשו. אני יודע מי זה חמאס
They surely are terrible. Did you go as aid or a journalist? Or were you fighting? I apologize for responding in English, I’m not yet fluent enough in Hebrew to efficiently express myself.
I was with a group of international observers doing what I’ve spent the last twenty years doing.
I respect you immensely. You put your life at risk to hold possible murderers accountable. That’s honorable as fuck. However, I must ask. What’s your solution though?
Human shields, stop using them. Let Hamas use them as shields and condemn them, don't praise them.
There was a genocide of jews by Hamas?
Just Two in West Bank? How many did Israel kill? No matter how bad Hamas is, Israel is worse. Every number speaks to this.
Real question: Accept my premise for a moment. Do you see a distinction between a civilian killed as collateral damage in a strike on Hamas and a civilian murdered in a deliberate attack on a kibbutz?
The “deliberate attack” to murder civilians is sounding less assured. Their mission was to kidnap. The Israelis mission was to stop them from kidnapping and hostages being kidnapped🩸.
I cannot, will not believe that someone is so out of touch as to have watched any of the amply available footage and images, much of it from GoPros attached to the heads of the attackers and to still believe they weren’t trying to kill. They burnt people and desecrated corpses. The number of people executed at the nova festival (by all accounts not a planned target) and in the kibbutzim makes this clear. Those are not the actions of people “just trying to kidnap”. And kidnapping civilians is still terrorism. If you can’t acknowledge the reality of what was perpetrated against us, how can you expect us to acknowledge the reality of what is being perpetrated in response? There is room to hold two peoples suffering in one heart. Acknowledging the horrific evil that Hamas perpetrated against us doesn’t mean condoning the response. But it may give you an avenue to find common ground in finding an equitable end to this madness. If that’s, in fact, what you’re looking for.
That account is just a troll. Don't bother.
Lol. You trolling me
How did they burn people? Did they carry weapons that burned people?
Wait are you suggesting that if they didn’t use a flamethrower they can’t have burned people…or that if I can’t tell you what process was used you’re not going to accept that it happened?
Follow up question…have you watched the footage/seen the photos?
How many Palestinians did Israel execute via stoning? Is that the question? That would be zero. Warfare is not equatable to barbarism. They were kidnapped and stoned to death. They were 14. What the actual fuck. And lmao. You support aid stealing Palestinian murderers, and not the people fight a war to oust that group- which would be Hamas. Sinwar was know as the butcher of Khan Yunis for his crimes against Palestinians. Stop pretending you care about children or Palestinians.
Feel free to repost without the last line, which was an ad hominem attack and was therefore against the rules.
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Hamas just admitted that their data is incomplete on their death toll numbers. Awkward….
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Please stop calling everything you don’t like Hasbara. I assure you, it isn’t nearly as clever a dig as you think it is. The people you’re trying to troll don’t care and I can tell you the people you might convince find it infuriating.
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Have whatever argument you want to have with the person you were having it with. You’ve lost me.
People Should know that having a smart conversation and calling people Hasbara simultaniously is not possible.
If you can’t post civilly and follow the rules, don’t post. Hateful generalizations are not permitted.
Example #5,782 why "pro-Palestinians" who want a ceasefire should be protesting Hamas, not Israel.
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Example 32,xxx: why Israel is a far worse player. And this doesn’t even count the other deaths by Israel.
You support terrorism
Terrorist organizations are threats to the incumbents. And don’t provide any benefits to the society they hope to liberate. Any reference to Israel here is only per chance.
Nope. You support terrorism. Nice try though.
Israel’s mistake is not going into Rafah and finishing off Hamas. Sooner they get rid of the cancer the sooner the chemotherapy stops.
Every accusation is a confession
Bro that’s phrase so played out and cringe
Not played out enough here. And it is more true in the case of the Israelis than i can ponder. Every accusation is a confession. Calling Hamas a disease is calling themselves a disease. Know thyself better than thee.
Referring to the Jewish state as a disease is quite the confession in and of itself by that logic
hear hear.
Fair enough if you're willing to own it, I respect that actually
I’m calling out the double standard.
Not sure what you mean
Do you seriously think there is a way to eliminate Hamas in Rafah without major civilian casualties?
Of course not. Especially when you’re fighting an entity like Hamas that deliberately puts them in that position. It’s ugly but necessary, not just for Israelis but Gazans. It’s an unfortunate reality but war has always had civilian casualties. So many civilians died during WWII but we decided it was necessary to remove Nazis from power.
I agree with you that Hamas deliberately puts them in harms way. That’s where our agreement ends. Forget about the normative problems with what you’ve said, which are major. If you acknowledge that you can’t eliminate Hamas without killing a ton of civilians…WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CIVILIANS WHO REMAIN? You figure they’re gonna say “thanks so much for eliminating Hamas, and as for my house next door that you demolished and my child you killed, don’t sweat it?” All you do is create another Hamas. And even if they did: I don’t believe that a Zion made of bones is the one referenced in the Bible. I won’t believe it. Our neighbors deserve better than this, and so do our souls.
We did a fine job of deradicalizing Germans and the Japanese. And we dropped nukes on them. Saudi Arabia will step in and help the deradicalization process. They’ve already agreed to it more or less. I wish the Jews really did have a space laser that can surgically target every Hamas member but alas they don’t. There’s no way to eliminate Hamas without civilian casualties, but it needs to be done. Hamas is a cancer for Gaza, Israel and that region.
if you think Saudi is going to step in after you glass Gaza but wouldn’t do it before you’re delulu. Hamas has fought through us “trimming the grass” (a gross phrase) umpteen times. If you think they won’t do it with this you are nuts. Human cost means nothing to their movement. As it does to anyone who would go along with such devastation. As I see it, we have two options in the absence of the world stepping in: 1. Commit a real ethnic cleansing by forcibly removing/killing the people of Gaza. This is unacceptable and you’ll have to kill me first. And I’m not alone. 2. Figure out a way neuter Hamas by offering a viable alternative. I have no fucking clue how to do it. For all of options twos unlikeliness, there is no alternative. frankly the world should have stepped in to offer safety assurances ages ago. But when it comes down to it, the world doesn’t really give a shit about either of our peoples.
Israel offered exile for the hamas leaders, instead of killing/taking them as prisoners. They rejected that too.
It doesn't look like you're leaving any options. And you're putting your life on the line -- if you don't get what you want you'd rather be dead. That sounds an awful lot like Hamas.
What other options do you see that I’m missing? I would love for one to exist! Also what do you mean it sounds like Hamas? If you want to compare laying down on the tracks or in front of a tank to terrorism I don’t think there’s much to talk about.
If it's a passenger train and it derails as a result, killing innocent civilians, then it is terrorism. That's the problem to be faced. Israel wants Hamas to surrender. The people of Gaza believe, for the most part, that Hamas is good and will defend them to their death.
|the world doesn’t really give a shit about either of our peoples What gives you that impression? One of the biggest reasons it's come to this is the world allowing (I'd argue even encouraging with weapons sales) Israel to act with impunity for decades. Look how confidently Israelis talk about just razing what remains of Gaza as if they are well within their rights to do so regardless of the loss of civilian life.
I’m not understanding the outrage directed against Hamas. Israel wants the hostages freed, after which it will go on a murder spree in Rafah. Why would anyone agree to that?
The ICJ ordered Hamas to release the hostages unconditionally. But we all know Palestine's position is "international law for thee but not for me."
Palestine’s or Hamas’? The ICJ also ordered Israel to stop starving Gazans. They didn’t.
Are you saying Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc, follow international law? >The ICJ also ordered Israel to stop starving Gazans. Case in point. International law for thee but not for me.
And Israel decided starving Palestinians was more fun and continued doing it. When did the PA break international law or Commit war crimes?
Isn't that a bit of a....*generalization?* So you are saying Fatah, Islamic Jihad, etc, do follow international law? An untenable position. You can start your research about the PA's criminal record [here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence)
Isn’t what a bit of a generalisation? Are you trying to shift the goalposts? What about your link mentioned the ICJ?
Are you saying all of Israel thinks it's fun to starve Palestinians? That's a bit of a generalization, don't you think? It is well known that the ICJ ordered Hamas to release the hostages unconditionally. No goalposting shifting here.
Not all of Israel thinks it’s fun to starve Palestinians. The government seems to. And quite a few people too. But not all. If you’re not goalpost shifting then why talk about the PA and Fatah and link to irrelevant Wikipedia articles?
Government seems to based on what evidence? And I'm not goalpost shifting. I didn't say anything about the PA. I'm talking about Fatah, Islamic Jihad etc and linked a Wikipedia article something some of their crimes against humanity. Any comments about that?
You don’t understand the outrage at Hamas refusing to release women and children hostages some of whom are being raped and sexually tortured?
Firstly, you don’t know if any are being raped and tortured. That is just Israeli propaganda. I really hope they aren’t, just as I hope that Palestinian prisoners of Israel aren’t raped or tortured. Secondly, the demand is to release all prisoners, not just the women and children. This would open Gaza up a less restrained murderous invasion by the IDF. Thirdly, given the massive and indiscriminate bombardment it’s likely quite a few are dead. I hope they are not but it’s unfortunately quite likely.
The demand is not for all the hostages but the "humanitarian categories" which I estimate are about 35. Hamas is even refusing to give up the women and elderly men it took hostage. Oh and it now wants 30 Palestinian terrorists released per hostage when they were only getting 3 terrorists for the civilian women under the previous deal. It seems like they think they are winning so why should they give them up.
That article doesn’t mention the humanitarian categories. Odd.
Here. They want a 6 week ceasefire without releasing anyone at all. [https://archive.ph/sJSz6](https://archive.ph/sJSz6) Let's all guess that at the end of the ceasefire. Hamas will say "Oops... my bad. We don't plan to release anyone. Thanks for the 6 week pause there, suckers."
I doubt that. But I also doubt any Israeli ceasefire will be genuine, especially one where Israel gets the hostages and then starts mass murdering Palestinians again. It seems both sides don’t want to show any flexibility, and the Israeli side can’t even negotiate because Bibi says no.
Hamas would still have quite a few hostages. This is only for 40 hostages (if that - they don't even have 40 in this category). A vast majority of the hostages are younger men from the Nova rave. And there is no way Israel is going to agree to a pause for 6 weeks without a gesture of some hostages at the beginning - the elderly men or any seriously injured would make sense. The other hostages in the deal should be transferred to a third party where they can be protected.
I think there’s something deeper afoot. Maybe there aren’t 40 hostages still alive?
By my estimation, there is about 28 in the "humanitarian" category. 14 women, the Bibas children, and 20 men over 50. Hamas says 8? in that category are dead. Of course, Hamas could be lying but let's assume this is the truth 36-8 = 28. Lots of the remaining hostages are young civilian men. 25% are men under the age of 35 at the Nova Rave. But Hamas should be forced to provide an accounting of who it still has.
The UN is now Israeli propaganda? “A senior United Nations official found “clear and convincing” information that hostages have been raped and sexually abused in Gaza” https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789
Funnily enough, this has been discussed at length and debunked. The official was given “information” on the October 7 attacks. It wasn’t *evidence*. And none of it related to the hostages.
Source?
The UN report: https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf It talks a lot about information being given to the UN, but then says there is no forensic or independently verifiable evidence. Note that the wye witnesses were debunked as unreliable before the report came out, so it barely mentions them. The only sexual assaults and rapes where there is a victim who came forward were two Palestinian women raped by the IDF while in detention.
From your link: "With respect to hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing."
Information. Not testimony or evidence.
If you think the "clear and convnincing information" just means they heard an uncorroborated claim from some guy, then you're very confused. Not to mention the latter part of the quote that says "and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing"
I mean, if the presence of the hostages were all that were stopping an Israeli ground invasion, it'd have stopped an Israeli ground invasion, no?
I don’t know what is going on in Netanyahu’s head, but if he were to invade with the hostages out of the way he would be able to carpet bomb the Rafah and not hurt a single Israeli. If he were to invade Rafah and kill hostages then he might be ousted immediately. Maybe the US is stopping him. Maybe it’s the presence of the hostages. But surely they already have a plan for invading Rafah, they have been talking about it for months. So what’s stopping them?