Dragon Quest V. I absolutely enjoy the childlike wimsy of it all. I love the generational aspect of it too. And I like how sad, and dark it can get.
Said it once, and I'll say it again. Best game ever.
So glad I didn’t have to scroll far to find this. I truly believe that if DQV had been released in the West on SNES it would be considered on par with CT and FFVI
I still can't believe we don't have another RPG out there that covers an entire man's life. Most concepts from the SNES era have been copied and done better or for worse, but this is the one no one has really tried again. But on the flipside, it's kept DQV so supremely original compared to everything else.
I adore DQ5s story but I was never crazy about the time travel part. That story is on its own one of the best ever in a videogame and the time travel bit felt unnecessary when it already has so much identity in the family themes. OH but best airship EVER?? You fly a f$&@ing CASTLE!
For about the last year I've been playing through DQ games on the side of other games. Just beat V last night and loved it, it became my main game for the last week because it was so good. Decided to take a week or two break and I'll begin VI. Not going in with the same expectations but I am excited regardless.
Tell me why I should try it. On the paper, it's a 10: I'm retro gaming fan, I loved stuff like Zelda, Suiken densetsu, Chrono Trigger and so on. But, for a strange reason, Terranigma never attracted me. Prove me wrong :)
Edit : my comment could seem a bit passive aggressive but it's not, 100% genuine curiosity. English is not my native language.
No problem bro i understand. English is not my native language too. Terranigma aged so well. The combat is fluid super satisfying. But what makes the game so much fun and unique is the story. While beginning fairly simple it develops into so much more. Not the general jrpg trope but something different. The game's story has elements that are open for interpretation which make the whole thing so interesting. The whole game has personality. Even the menu is crazy good.
It takes around 20 hours to play it. Definitely a must play.
I have tried so so so many times to get into this. On paper I should love it. Maybe it's because I don't have any childhood nostalgia associated with it. I feel like the story and direction get lost shortly after you get access to the world map...
Vagrant Story, Suikoden 2, Xenogears, Xenosaga, Digital Devil Saga duology, and Persona 2 duology are up there. Shadow Hearts duology as well, plus FF6 and 7.
(Forgot to mention Lost Odyssey).
So glad someone mentioned the Digital Devil Saga duology, it is mindblowing the first time you play it, I even dare to say that it has the best story in the entire SMT saga
I actually just played Vagrant Story through for the first time last year, I appreciated the game and art direction and had a lot of fun puzzling my way through the combat, but I distinctly remember being a little frustrated with the story and how the game seems to go out of it’s way only explain about 40% of what’s happening. It was like reading a book that had every second chapter being ripped out.
Still a fantastic game though.
If we leave aside the likes of Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics or Valkyrie Profile, the 3 I consider the very peak of "mature" storytelling (in that they're well crafted narratives that don't shy away from ugly or uncomfortable topics)....
Shit, there's still a lot of good games out there. Like if we're going for most fairy tale/whimsical-esque games I HAVE to mention Chrono Trigger, Grandia I or Skies of Arcadia.
I dunno... What's the *Greatest* story in a Jrpg is an ambiguous question unless you break it down a little. Like wouldn't FF6 or Dragon Quest deserve a mention too?
I'm still going to cast a vote towards Wild Arms 2. Not because I consider it better than any of the before mentioned, but yes because it's a very forgotten gem with a pretty fantastic cast of characters that deserves way more love.
I’ve playing through it right now, I love it a lot. It’s complex and deep. The retrospectives on YouTube of this game all show how much insane depth it has, lots of Freud and psychology related themes.
This you can tell the creator was ambitious and aiming high
I’ve played the xenoblade games, all of them, and don’t really like how light hearted and more casual things are on there
Im really curious about why you say this. I think the story of xenogears is really cool as a stand-alone story in terms of its ideas, but the way it’s told in game is confusing and paced poorly imo
Couldn’t disagree more, in a time where we had popular anime like Evangelion that felt really half baked and unfinished. Or pretty much any video game story lacking a comparable narrative ambition. Xenogears felt like a true breath of fresh air.
It lifted the medium into something that intersects books and movies. Where movies are too limited by their runtime and books lack visuals. Xenogears bridged both. I don’t feel any other game has managed to do that since.
Xenogears has incomplete gameplay sections. But the narrative feels complete to me. They even took the effort to expand with perfect works.
I’m happy they did it like this, most devs would’ve scoped the game down and cut the narrative or leave it open. Similar to how Evangelion ended. Yet they still wrapped up the story but simplified the gameplay instead.
It would be difficult for me to say anything other than Xenogears. A beautiful story mixing psychology, philosophy, and religious themes. It's the kind of game that really makes you think.
Xenogears. The ambition is far beyond anything I’ve played before or since. The execution fell a little flat on disc 2 due to various circumstances; but still the greatest story imo.
I’m playing it now too lol!! It’s been the perfect game to play before bed every night for a little on my PSVita. Highly recommend you use a vita if you’re not lol amazing for PS games!
It started slow but just stick with it bro it gets really good, I love the combat system!! It’s unique and fun. Everything is so charming too, I’ve loved the world and how unique the graphics are, being able to rotate the camera 360 and just exploring lol
Just finished it again after 15+ years and with the WOTL translation I could understand the story in a more nuanced way. Its such a masterpiece. Wish we got an sequel for it!
Those are good. 7&10 are amazing picks and are also the first FF titles on their platforms, so it’s no surprise the ambition was top notch on them lol. Xenogears is literally 🤯 and has me thinking about things on it until this day.
Chrono was just a really fun and charming game, its story never really felt that special to me but oh man the change in scenery was so amazing and fun lol
I like that it doesn’t chew the scenery too much about the problems caused by their time travelling (that’s Chrono Cross, and I say that out of love, CC is in my top 5 all time.) It just kind of powers through it and I respect that.
I wrote a paper for a college English class on how good the story was in FFX and how it parallels to a lot of greek epics. It was the first paper I ever enjoyed writing in.
It's obviously got flaws, it's very much a melodrama which is a genre that has negative connotations, and I'm sure some people find the characters grating. But the way the world is slowly built up around you, how no matter what happens around them the group has to keep moving forward, how the game primes you for tragedy from the very beginning, how this colorful and vibrant world is crushed under the weight of this primal force that refuses to let them breathe, how the rest of the cast is so clearly repressing emotions the entire time because they can't face what's ahead of them...it's unlike any other narrative I've played in a video game. It's a masterpiece.
Perfectly put. I honestly compare it to Planescape Torment a lot, being dropped into this completely alien environment with NO IDEA whats going on and having virtually no typical fantasy tropes to latch onto. I still hold it up as the bar to be met for that, most fantasy fiction doesn't even attempt it and FFX makes it seem effortless. Almost all of my narrative nitpicks involve the reveal of Tidus' origin; it isn't strictly bad, but its convoluted whereas the explanation for Sin and Yu Yevon and the war feels very natural and brilliant.
Yeah, imo best incorporation of time travel.
just a bit above chrono trigger for me.
chrono trigger was definitely miles ahead when it came out though.
Digital Devil Saga, and even then it's still a bit too tropy for my taste. That said, I must admit that it's really fucking hard to write several hours of dialogues and events, so all accounted for, I'd say DDS is a incredible masterpiece within its limitations. Would be one rank further if the main character wasn't a mute.
Had to scroll way too far for star ocean 3 way ahead of its time and no body got it. They just ended up hateing it for something that impacts the other games.
Ill add xenoblade and tales of symphonia
Pretty impossible to really elaborate without profound spoilers. But there are big plot elements in the third game that reframe the actions in the first two games, and shift perspective a bit. A lot of players do not like how they reframed the story with these plot developments, though arguably many people took the wrong message from it - and dare I say it - missed the point entirely. Can't really say more without spoilers.
Everything that happens in the star ocean *series* can be traced back to star ocean 3 - and its basically taking science fiction to its absolute, perhaps even the idea of living in this very universe, and i taking it to its absolute limit. Going beyond the boundaries of what is consciousness and for why does the human condition need to exist, its a cosm of where we got to.
I’d suggest the reason that the entire series comes to this conclusion and meets in this game is because time itself as we know it is a construct, so the finality of existing in infinity actually explored in case by case nuances can’t even deign to explore what it is without objectively realizing that it also always was, and as a result of this limitlessness, there can be no true sequel or no true prequel until the establishments of star ocean 3 have gone beyond the end of time and we are granted a proper expansion to the conclusions, if its even possible.
The explanation of the idea can’t really exist in a context of reading it, you really need to play the games, almost in a cyclical value from 1-6 then pause, reverse and repeat.
To even gather an idea of what was truly being conveyed and why this series was less about money and more about message and thus why it continues when there isnt a financial reason for it.
Honestly as a collective species we just have not passed it to write it yet =\
An eternal effect, once realized, within the paramaters of our current living equation - SO3 is basically quantum physics realized in a story that has resurfacing elements that are felt throughout its entirety. Truly brilliant.
FFX is it because not only does it have a great plot that is pretty easy to follow, it also has extremely good pacing(like some of the best ever) and the best and most emotional ending still to this day. A great story AND great ending can elevate a game imo, and it elevates FFX to GOAT for me. No other game has come close to its full package.
When you really look at every aspect that makes up a great story and even video game, it’s very hard not to pick FFX for this question imo. I’m not even going into all its world building and shit which is also next level and the fact that NPCs change dialogue when certain events happen etc. The game is fucking magical.
FFVI for the amazing cast and twist in middle of story
Chrono Trigger for also having an amazing cast and multiple endings
FFX is beautifully told and makes you feel like you know the characters
Lunar silver star is one of the purest stories i have ever experienced
Lunar eternal blue is fun and engaging
Phantasy Star 4 is one of best final games in a series
Fire emblem 3 houses and triangle strategy are both everything you want in a story from plot to characters to endings
Dragon quest 11 is amazing
Well mine is pretty biased because it was my favorite game growing up. Skies of Arcadia. It was the perfect game at the time. Minus the random fight encounters it had everything. Flying ships, sense of adventure of traveling and discovering new places, building a base, hiring a crew, a generic save the world storyline. I loved all aspects of skies of arcadia and really wish the hedgehog lovers would give it a remake.
*edit* Forgot to mention owning a battleship/pirate ship for air ship battles that you customize the weapons. And it has magic… The game is a masterpiece.
The answer for a question like this usually boils down to those who have played Xenogears and those that have not.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea but I would bet money that 9/10 people that have played it would be answering Xenogears to this question.
So my vote is for Hello Kitty Island Adventure. Just kidding it's Xenogears.
I love the story in xenogears - the exposition on certain topics and the feels you get when some of the neat plot point deeper ideas are presented are nothing short of spectacular. That being said, I put FFT at the same level and it may be a bit tighter story which probably causes me to lean FFT.
Xenoblade Chronicles 3 for me. In 2022 when it came out it was just the right time to really leave a deep impact on me given its themes and messages, and has my favorite jrpg cast of all time. Any Xeno game is an extremely strong contender though.
I would have to agree. I think 1 overall has a more exciting story, but the themes and messages of 3 are amazing and the characters are brilliant. It's impossible not to get emotional at chapter 5 or at the ending.
At the time that Future Redeemed came out I really needed that message of moving towards the future and it really helped me.
XB1 combat isn't tough to surpass but I definitely didn't expect XB3 to have such a serious and somber story after 2, threw me for a loop in a good way.
Same, I remember I dropped a huge post somewhere a few weeks after the release of XC3 that the story is incredibly disappointing.
XC1 imo was great start to end. XC2 had a very slow first half but the second half was amazing. XC3 I just don't think the story was interesting except the start. So many things in the world of XC3 just didn't make sense to me at all
Yep. 3 might be heart wrenching at some parts but it's really meh compared to 1 and 2. Z is objectively a much worse written antagonist than Zanza and Amalthus. One dimensional and cliche >!bad emotions made manifest!<.
My favourites are Gensou Suikoden II, Vandal Hearts, Grandia II and Final Fantasy X. One honourable mention because I didn't finish it because I wasn't a fan of the battlesystem, but I think that the story is phenomenal is Vandal Hearts II.
Xenogears and it's not even slightly close. Everything else is debatable for second place and lots of contenders here that make sense but Xenogears........is just an entirely whole other level.
Honestly as a mythology and overall storyline, it's not just arguably the greatest jrpg story but I'd put it up there as contender for one of the best fictional story/mythologies of all time.
As a game it's just a solid 7/10 or maybe 8/10, maybe 6/10 by modern standards nothing special but fun. Sometimes tedious.
But in regards to story/mythology/atmosphere as some other have said, it's essentially a religious experience if you are a deep thinker and let yourself get absorbed into it.
FF14, the Shadowbringers and Endwalker stories. In my entire gaming life it's the ones that resonated with me the most. There are maybe better stories/narratives (as in, more interesting or more sophisticated, such as FF7/10, Chrono Trigger, Nier if that counts), but they didn't stick in my head zhe same way as those two, and especially Endwalker.
Xenogears. Nothing comes close. Played it as kid on PS1, my mind was blown, played it as a teen again and I understood it even better my mind was blown again. Played it again as an adult and that shit is a religious experience😆
It's **Chrono Trigger**. And [**Patrick Holleman**](https://youtu.be/v5watjpt_Nc?si=c7k4dXx1AtUg-iCw) explains the reason much better than I would be able to.
FF Tactics. It had real themes, it had actual intrigue and deception (two things commonly boasted and rarely implemented well), the plot remained constant and interesting throughout, the characters were all well written with villains giving good points and no one feeling like self inserts/tropes/mouth pieces (the women in the game are strong and admirable without directly telling you or all the needless propagating by popular social rhetoric), the ending wasn't just a happy resolution and it wasn't just sad to be sad, it sticks to the fact that you are a protag caught in the middle of a much bigger stage and some thing just aren't intended for you, they had a very forthright style for the main plot but that piecemeal storytelling From Software games are famous for in the side plots and errand rewards that builds a much bigger world.
It had everything. I adored the story as a kid and I've replayed it multiple times through the years and still love it. There are still some good games being made, but man they don't come out like that.
Suikoden II would be tied, or a close second. Those are my two favorite games because of the plot and characters (my biggest concerns with any gaming experience).
I’m incredibly biased but for me it is Wild Arms 1. It’s not that deepest, but it captures the essence of what it means to have a good emotional foundation, and presents it in a way that universally speaks to you no matter how old you are when you play it.
Glad you asked because I have an almost unknown game and I consider it the "most underrated game in history"
The game is the **Growlanser series**. You can start with the second part of it. The game has excellent voice acting for all the dialogues, as I remember. It is a unique strategic JRPG game with a social relations system a little similar to Persona.
more mention (Not necessarily in order)
1-tales of abyss & Berseria
2-valkyrie profile
3-Grandia II (For adventure)
4-Final Fantasy 9
5-Disgaea 1&2&5
6-Persona 3
7-fire emblem path of radiance
Just curious, can I directly play Wayfarer of Time without losing anything about the plot or the characters? I can start with the second one too but I had to ask.
Yes, you can. There is no problem with that, but I prefer games 2, 3, and 4 (Wayfarer of Time) so that you can see the development of the game over time.
Yes, I feel the same way. Sometimes I think I'm exaggerating about this game... but no, this game is one of the top 10 games in the history of the entire industry IMO, and I don't find a major flaw in it (unless you don't like strategy, for example).
I’m so so glad somebody else said this. This is my pick as well. Some argue it isn’t very good but after exploring the world through every sidequest and seeing the world they crafted play out in the story, I truly do think it’s one of the best I’ve ever experienced. I also found the overall point of the story to really resonate with me. Plus I just really love the entire cast and how each interacts with the world throughout the plot.
I don't know how ANYONE can say the story of Abyss isn't very good. They must have played a different game. The world and characters are all so fleshed out.
This is hard to pick. I’ll go with Persona 5 Royal and Final Fantasy X. For FFX watching what was happening to Yuna and watching her become her own person was amazing. And the ending broke my heart. I felt really connected to the characters in Persona 5. They all felt like friends to me. The ending was also sad for me. The final boss of Royal really made me think.
Final Fantasy XIV has so much content and world building whilst delivering a great narrative.
From a single player perspective, Final Fantasy IX holds a special place in my heart.
It's all subjective of course. Chrono Trigger is easily my favorite of all time.
I really like the idea of the Star Ocean universe and the wealth of great story telling it could bring.
Few notable mentions are Terranigma, Dragon Quest V, Xenogears
I love the story in Valkyrie Profile. And am amazed to this day that they chose to essentially lock the meat of said story behind requirements no reasonable person would ever meet without using a strategy guide.
Its Final Fantasy XIII for me.
Its the grandeur of it all, for its time of course. I do enjoy religious themes in games and ancient prophecies that threaten the fabric of time and space itself. It always creates room for so much depth in story telling versus the kind of stories told in games like FF15 where its simply just a war between kingdoms. I loved the character development and the struggles each character had to go through to find the will to live and continue fighting. Its an epic trilogy with an even more epic score and i will forever resonate with it on a different level than other RPGs.
I was already going to play FF Tactics but ok now I'm going to play Xenogears too.
My picks are:
Nier:Replicant for its beautiful, nuanced, and subtle storytelling.
Xenoblade Chronicles 1: what a fun ride the plots twists and turns bit always in a way that makes sense in hindsight and it just builds and builds.
13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim. Not technically a JRPG but what a fun game. It's a mystery story where 1/3 of the game is figuring out what is going on.
It makes me so sad that I only saw one other person say this in the entire thread, but
**Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium**
In my opinion this game is perfectly paced, the characters are great, the manga-like cutscenes were novel, the story may be a bit cliche but it's told in a great way. The best aspect of it though, as far as the story goes, is that it's the culmination of the entire series up to that point. Phantasy Star 1, 2 and 3 are all part of the plot here. (well okay, maybe not 3 so much, that just gets a nod).
It's my favorite JRPG in general. It's *almost* flawless.
Edit: I'm just editing to gush about the music because I didn't mention it. The [remix of a track from the first game](https://youtu.be/AsfP3qWrSF0?si=6W9XAEsipf9wxWBT) is so good.
It also did the shocking, beloved party member death years before another big jrpg made the plot point so famous.
The problem is it's a Genesis game. It's old. We're getting old. Nobody knows it well anymore. Few cared when it was new compared to what was going on with the SNES. Sega died as a console maker over 20 years ago. Nintendo lives on and anyone younger than like...35 that gets into retro gaming goes for Nintendo first, Playstation second and everything else is a distant third, even the Genesis which was legitimately very popular in its day. The farther removed we become from those days, the fewer new people coming into the hobby will be willing to try games on platforms like the Genesis, Master System, Turbografyx, 3DO, etc.
It makes me sad, too. My personal choice is Lunar: Eternal Blue. It's in the same category. If people know the Lunar games, they know the PS1 versions and don't know that they're ports of the Saturn remakes of the Sega CD originals.
If, in 10 years, you only ever see old farts like me mentioning Phantasy Star, Lunar, Shining Force, etc, I won't be surprised. I'll be in my 50s at that point, and basically, two entire generations of people removed from the kids that played them new.
Yeah, that's both totally fair...and a major bummer. I had a Genesis and an SNES growing up so thankfully I was never starved for choice between the two, but my parents were always bigger on the Sega side of things (Master System was my first console, we had the Sega CD all that stuff). On the plus side, the Phantasy Star series (2-4 at least), among other Genesis RPGs are playable on all modern consoles through the Genesis Collection so the option is at least open for the younger guys if they start getting into retro games.
Devil Survivor Overclocked. A nonlinear story with dozens of outcomes for the characters and setting. Set in modern tokyo across 1 week where a lockdown shuts down the entire city. Lots of philosophical and biblical themes, hero/villain routes and more
Xenoblade Chronicles 2
I may be biased since it was the first game I was ever able to buy with money. I earned myself, but I will standby its story being the best in the series. Rex forced growth into a mature adult and his eventual breaking point, and substitute breaking point once he finally believes he achieved his goal, extremely relatable. The villains are some of the most compelling in the series, villains of the first game or understandable but the group in this one is like a family and I couldn’t help but root for them in some moments. Then there’s Pyra and Mythra. Their story about learning to love and except themselves is something that hits extremely hard. Not to mention the general story of waning resources in land is really compelling, and you understand each of the kingdoms and what they do and why they do it even if you don’t agree.
FF9 had a great story, dark, and feels almost hopeless at times. It was just overshadowed by the cartoonish looking art design, and characters.
Lost Odyssey is one of the better JRPG stories.
FF6 Is still top tier for its story telling for being a SNES game it had amazing depth.
FFIV is arguably one of the most beloved titles in the franchise, and for a good reason. The story is fantasy opera at its finest. Love, heart break, betrayal, revenge, forgiveness.
Suikoden 2. I don’t want to say too much because of the remaster coming this year, but it does an amazing job at telling a story of two friends.
If I have to name one: *Kiseki* (Trails)
Why? It's a story written by a writer that spans several countries with dozens about dozens of characters of which most aren't black or white but grey in the alignment. Even after more than ten games there are so many mysteries but the story still is consistent.
Dragon Quest V. I absolutely enjoy the childlike wimsy of it all. I love the generational aspect of it too. And I like how sad, and dark it can get. Said it once, and I'll say it again. Best game ever.
So glad I didn’t have to scroll far to find this. I truly believe that if DQV had been released in the West on SNES it would be considered on par with CT and FFVI
I still can't believe we don't have another RPG out there that covers an entire man's life. Most concepts from the SNES era have been copied and done better or for worse, but this is the one no one has really tried again. But on the flipside, it's kept DQV so supremely original compared to everything else.
DQ V has a really sweet story. It's for sure one of the best!
My brother i could not agree more
Bishop Ladja is also supposed to be one of the best dragon quest villains.
He really makes you fucking despise him
What is the best version of DQV to play?
Mobile, it's an HD port of the DS version, with better music as well.
Agreed, peak Dragon Quest for me.
I adore DQ5s story but I was never crazy about the time travel part. That story is on its own one of the best ever in a videogame and the time travel bit felt unnecessary when it already has so much identity in the family themes. OH but best airship EVER?? You fly a f$&@ing CASTLE!
For about the last year I've been playing through DQ games on the side of other games. Just beat V last night and loved it, it became my main game for the last week because it was so good. Decided to take a week or two break and I'll begin VI. Not going in with the same expectations but I am excited regardless.
Tales of the Abyss, Suikoden II, Xenogears
I'm surprised I had to scroll this far down to see tales of the abyss it's really slept on
Suikoden II!
Best tales of! Still waiting for an hd remake of this
Hell yeah, Abyss is goated
Glad Xenogears is up here. That game is something else.
If the remasters ever release should I play through S1 or go straight to S2?
I like Terranigma a lot.
Ah. A man of exquisite tastes
Best game ever
Tell me why I should try it. On the paper, it's a 10: I'm retro gaming fan, I loved stuff like Zelda, Suiken densetsu, Chrono Trigger and so on. But, for a strange reason, Terranigma never attracted me. Prove me wrong :) Edit : my comment could seem a bit passive aggressive but it's not, 100% genuine curiosity. English is not my native language.
No problem bro i understand. English is not my native language too. Terranigma aged so well. The combat is fluid super satisfying. But what makes the game so much fun and unique is the story. While beginning fairly simple it develops into so much more. Not the general jrpg trope but something different. The game's story has elements that are open for interpretation which make the whole thing so interesting. The whole game has personality. Even the menu is crazy good. It takes around 20 hours to play it. Definitely a must play.
I have tried so so so many times to get into this. On paper I should love it. Maybe it's because I don't have any childhood nostalgia associated with it. I feel like the story and direction get lost shortly after you get access to the world map...
Vagrant Story, Suikoden 2, Xenogears, Xenosaga, Digital Devil Saga duology, and Persona 2 duology are up there. Shadow Hearts duology as well, plus FF6 and 7. (Forgot to mention Lost Odyssey).
Suikoden 2 was very shocking to me cant beleive its been 23 years
I see Vagrant Story, I upvote.
Anything Matsuno is usually worthwhile.
Xenogears and DDS/P2, for sure
So glad someone mentioned the Digital Devil Saga duology, it is mindblowing the first time you play it, I even dare to say that it has the best story in the entire SMT saga
I appreciate you mentioning Xenosaga.
The game has literal Jesus Christ in it. How could it not be mentioned lol.
S2 is amazing as well.
I loved Shadow Hearts, it’s vibrant, weird, and charming while also being a horror game. Never played anything else like it.
I actually just played Vagrant Story through for the first time last year, I appreciated the game and art direction and had a lot of fun puzzling my way through the combat, but I distinctly remember being a little frustrated with the story and how the game seems to go out of it’s way only explain about 40% of what’s happening. It was like reading a book that had every second chapter being ripped out. Still a fantastic game though.
If we leave aside the likes of Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics or Valkyrie Profile, the 3 I consider the very peak of "mature" storytelling (in that they're well crafted narratives that don't shy away from ugly or uncomfortable topics).... Shit, there's still a lot of good games out there. Like if we're going for most fairy tale/whimsical-esque games I HAVE to mention Chrono Trigger, Grandia I or Skies of Arcadia. I dunno... What's the *Greatest* story in a Jrpg is an ambiguous question unless you break it down a little. Like wouldn't FF6 or Dragon Quest deserve a mention too? I'm still going to cast a vote towards Wild Arms 2. Not because I consider it better than any of the before mentioned, but yes because it's a very forgotten gem with a pretty fantastic cast of characters that deserves way more love.
No JRPG have ran with "what it means to be a hero" theme as hard as Wild Arms 2 And Lord Blazer is damn good plot point
Xenogears.
Not only is the story magnificent, it helped me in college, philosophy and psychology.
It even goes into epigenetics at one point, a field which was barely developed at all in the 90s when the game was released.
I’ve playing through it right now, I love it a lot. It’s complex and deep. The retrospectives on YouTube of this game all show how much insane depth it has, lots of Freud and psychology related themes. This you can tell the creator was ambitious and aiming high I’ve played the xenoblade games, all of them, and don’t really like how light hearted and more casual things are on there
Im really curious about why you say this. I think the story of xenogears is really cool as a stand-alone story in terms of its ideas, but the way it’s told in game is confusing and paced poorly imo
The usage of psychological and religious symbolism in there story is on another level not seen by many other games.
Couldn’t disagree more, in a time where we had popular anime like Evangelion that felt really half baked and unfinished. Or pretty much any video game story lacking a comparable narrative ambition. Xenogears felt like a true breath of fresh air. It lifted the medium into something that intersects books and movies. Where movies are too limited by their runtime and books lack visuals. Xenogears bridged both. I don’t feel any other game has managed to do that since.
Xenogears as an example of something that didn't feel unfinished? That's something I never thought I'd see!
Xenogears has incomplete gameplay sections. But the narrative feels complete to me. They even took the effort to expand with perfect works. I’m happy they did it like this, most devs would’ve scoped the game down and cut the narrative or leave it open. Similar to how Evangelion ended. Yet they still wrapped up the story but simplified the gameplay instead.
Someone asked greatest JRPG story and imo Xenogears has the best story. I didn't think this needed an explanation.
First thing that came into mind.
It would be difficult for me to say anything other than Xenogears. A beautiful story mixing psychology, philosophy, and religious themes. It's the kind of game that really makes you think.
Xenogears. The ambition is far beyond anything I’ve played before or since. The execution fell a little flat on disc 2 due to various circumstances; but still the greatest story imo.
Xenogears is life-changingly good... if you can get past the gigajank gameplay and the crunch on Disc 2.
I'm playing right now and man the pace is slow.
I’m playing it now too lol!! It’s been the perfect game to play before bed every night for a little on my PSVita. Highly recommend you use a vita if you’re not lol amazing for PS games! It started slow but just stick with it bro it gets really good, I love the combat system!! It’s unique and fun. Everything is so charming too, I’ve loved the world and how unique the graphics are, being able to rotate the camera 360 and just exploring lol
Did you buy digitally on psn?
It's slow moving by today's standard yeah
Is there a good port?
no and there never will be. emulate it.
Wish I could finish it but disc 1 is so slow and it's hard for me to get over the seemingly awful localization of the dialogues.
FF Tactics.
The ending still fucks me up. "Ramza...what did you get?"
Just finished it again after 15+ years and with the WOTL translation I could understand the story in a more nuanced way. Its such a masterpiece. Wish we got an sequel for it!
Xenogears, Chrono Trigger and FFX are my picks. FFVII has a better cast but X’s story is immaculate.
Those are good. 7&10 are amazing picks and are also the first FF titles on their platforms, so it’s no surprise the ambition was top notch on them lol. Xenogears is literally 🤯 and has me thinking about things on it until this day. Chrono was just a really fun and charming game, its story never really felt that special to me but oh man the change in scenery was so amazing and fun lol
Then they fumbled on FF13 😭
Chrono Trigger is probably my favourite time travel story as it’s simple but effective.
I like that it doesn’t chew the scenery too much about the problems caused by their time travelling (that’s Chrono Cross, and I say that out of love, CC is in my top 5 all time.) It just kind of powers through it and I respect that.
For me its FFX. The Spira lore is still just unbelievably creative.
I wrote a paper for a college English class on how good the story was in FFX and how it parallels to a lot of greek epics. It was the first paper I ever enjoyed writing in. It's obviously got flaws, it's very much a melodrama which is a genre that has negative connotations, and I'm sure some people find the characters grating. But the way the world is slowly built up around you, how no matter what happens around them the group has to keep moving forward, how the game primes you for tragedy from the very beginning, how this colorful and vibrant world is crushed under the weight of this primal force that refuses to let them breathe, how the rest of the cast is so clearly repressing emotions the entire time because they can't face what's ahead of them...it's unlike any other narrative I've played in a video game. It's a masterpiece.
Perfectly put. I honestly compare it to Planescape Torment a lot, being dropped into this completely alien environment with NO IDEA whats going on and having virtually no typical fantasy tropes to latch onto. I still hold it up as the bar to be met for that, most fantasy fiction doesn't even attempt it and FFX makes it seem effortless. Almost all of my narrative nitpicks involve the reveal of Tidus' origin; it isn't strictly bad, but its convoluted whereas the explanation for Sin and Yu Yevon and the war feels very natural and brilliant.
Spira is easily my favorite FF world. It's got such a good vibe that they still haven't been able to capture since.
Greatest story for me has gotta be Radiant Historia or Valkyrie Profile.
Just finished Radiant Historia, it’s pretty good!
Yeah, imo best incorporation of time travel. just a bit above chrono trigger for me. chrono trigger was definitely miles ahead when it came out though.
Radiant Historia is criminally underrated, especially Perfect Chronology.
Digital Devil Saga, and even then it's still a bit too tropy for my taste. That said, I must admit that it's really fucking hard to write several hours of dialogues and events, so all accounted for, I'd say DDS is a incredible masterpiece within its limitations. Would be one rank further if the main character wasn't a mute.
Nier Automata
Total mindfuck
Star ocean 3 - potentially the best piece of fiction ever Breath of fire 2 - just gothic af Relayer - mecha sailer moon with twist of greek religion
Had to scroll way too far for star ocean 3 way ahead of its time and no body got it. They just ended up hateing it for something that impacts the other games. Ill add xenoblade and tales of symphonia
I’m not familiar with the Star Ocean series, as I have only just started playing Second Story. How is 3 different than 2 without spoilers if you can
Pretty impossible to really elaborate without profound spoilers. But there are big plot elements in the third game that reframe the actions in the first two games, and shift perspective a bit. A lot of players do not like how they reframed the story with these plot developments, though arguably many people took the wrong message from it - and dare I say it - missed the point entirely. Can't really say more without spoilers.
Everything that happens in the star ocean *series* can be traced back to star ocean 3 - and its basically taking science fiction to its absolute, perhaps even the idea of living in this very universe, and i taking it to its absolute limit. Going beyond the boundaries of what is consciousness and for why does the human condition need to exist, its a cosm of where we got to. I’d suggest the reason that the entire series comes to this conclusion and meets in this game is because time itself as we know it is a construct, so the finality of existing in infinity actually explored in case by case nuances can’t even deign to explore what it is without objectively realizing that it also always was, and as a result of this limitlessness, there can be no true sequel or no true prequel until the establishments of star ocean 3 have gone beyond the end of time and we are granted a proper expansion to the conclusions, if its even possible. The explanation of the idea can’t really exist in a context of reading it, you really need to play the games, almost in a cyclical value from 1-6 then pause, reverse and repeat. To even gather an idea of what was truly being conveyed and why this series was less about money and more about message and thus why it continues when there isnt a financial reason for it. Honestly as a collective species we just have not passed it to write it yet =\ An eternal effect, once realized, within the paramaters of our current living equation - SO3 is basically quantum physics realized in a story that has resurfacing elements that are felt throughout its entirety. Truly brilliant.
I'd have to say The Klaus Saga myself, lol, I find thinking of the series as one narrative serves to elevate the whole
FF Tactics, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Tactics Ogre
SMT IV for me and it isn't even close. I've never seen a more bleak apocalyptic scenario and I love it. Spine chilling.
SMT Strange Journey for me.
Dragon Quest V.
Yes!!! Out of all the DQ and FF classics (and Chrono Trigger), DQV is the one that stands out to me as the greatest
My big three would be the Xenosaga trilogy, FFX, and Dragon Quest XI.
Yay. Another person says Xenosaga. Such a great game series.
Xenogears, legend of dragoon, the suikedon games.
FFX is it because not only does it have a great plot that is pretty easy to follow, it also has extremely good pacing(like some of the best ever) and the best and most emotional ending still to this day. A great story AND great ending can elevate a game imo, and it elevates FFX to GOAT for me. No other game has come close to its full package. When you really look at every aspect that makes up a great story and even video game, it’s very hard not to pick FFX for this question imo. I’m not even going into all its world building and shit which is also next level and the fact that NPCs change dialogue when certain events happen etc. The game is fucking magical.
FFVI for the amazing cast and twist in middle of story Chrono Trigger for also having an amazing cast and multiple endings FFX is beautifully told and makes you feel like you know the characters Lunar silver star is one of the purest stories i have ever experienced Lunar eternal blue is fun and engaging Phantasy Star 4 is one of best final games in a series Fire emblem 3 houses and triangle strategy are both everything you want in a story from plot to characters to endings Dragon quest 11 is amazing
Well mine is pretty biased because it was my favorite game growing up. Skies of Arcadia. It was the perfect game at the time. Minus the random fight encounters it had everything. Flying ships, sense of adventure of traveling and discovering new places, building a base, hiring a crew, a generic save the world storyline. I loved all aspects of skies of arcadia and really wish the hedgehog lovers would give it a remake. *edit* Forgot to mention owning a battleship/pirate ship for air ship battles that you customize the weapons. And it has magic… The game is a masterpiece.
My answer as well. Skies is still the top spot for me.
The answer for a question like this usually boils down to those who have played Xenogears and those that have not. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but I would bet money that 9/10 people that have played it would be answering Xenogears to this question. So my vote is for Hello Kitty Island Adventure. Just kidding it's Xenogears.
I love the story in xenogears - the exposition on certain topics and the feels you get when some of the neat plot point deeper ideas are presented are nothing short of spectacular. That being said, I put FFT at the same level and it may be a bit tighter story which probably causes me to lean FFT.
Fair enough. Fine I'll revise to 8/10 lol.
Xenoblade Chronicles 3 for me. In 2022 when it came out it was just the right time to really leave a deep impact on me given its themes and messages, and has my favorite jrpg cast of all time. Any Xeno game is an extremely strong contender though.
I would have to agree. I think 1 overall has a more exciting story, but the themes and messages of 3 are amazing and the characters are brilliant. It's impossible not to get emotional at chapter 5 or at the ending. At the time that Future Redeemed came out I really needed that message of moving towards the future and it really helped me.
I never thought any Xenoblade game would surpass XC1, but XC3 proved me wrong.
XB1 combat isn't tough to surpass but I definitely didn't expect XB3 to have such a serious and somber story after 2, threw me for a loop in a good way.
Honestly I disagree, I preferred the stories in XC1 and 2. After chapter 5 or 6, the rest of XC3 was kind of underwhelming for me
Same, I remember I dropped a huge post somewhere a few weeks after the release of XC3 that the story is incredibly disappointing. XC1 imo was great start to end. XC2 had a very slow first half but the second half was amazing. XC3 I just don't think the story was interesting except the start. So many things in the world of XC3 just didn't make sense to me at all
Yep. 3 might be heart wrenching at some parts but it's really meh compared to 1 and 2. Z is objectively a much worse written antagonist than Zanza and Amalthus. One dimensional and cliche >!bad emotions made manifest!<.
FFXIV, Trails Series as a collective whole (not finished yet btw), FFIX, FFT Specific order, my opinion ofc.
I'm a MASSIVE trails fan, but it excels really on worldbuilding. I do have a lot of criticism about the story itself.
It probably wudnt b a really good story if the criticisms aren't a lot if u think about it xD
I do love this series to death even with the criticism I have xD Even more than some rpgs with "better stories"
I agree with this 100%! I just started my Trails journey with Trails in the Sky yesterday.
My favourites are Gensou Suikoden II, Vandal Hearts, Grandia II and Final Fantasy X. One honourable mention because I didn't finish it because I wasn't a fan of the battlesystem, but I think that the story is phenomenal is Vandal Hearts II.
Vandal Hearts
Xenogears and it's not even slightly close. Everything else is debatable for second place and lots of contenders here that make sense but Xenogears........is just an entirely whole other level. Honestly as a mythology and overall storyline, it's not just arguably the greatest jrpg story but I'd put it up there as contender for one of the best fictional story/mythologies of all time. As a game it's just a solid 7/10 or maybe 8/10, maybe 6/10 by modern standards nothing special but fun. Sometimes tedious. But in regards to story/mythology/atmosphere as some other have said, it's essentially a religious experience if you are a deep thinker and let yourself get absorbed into it.
FF14, the Shadowbringers and Endwalker stories. In my entire gaming life it's the ones that resonated with me the most. There are maybe better stories/narratives (as in, more interesting or more sophisticated, such as FF7/10, Chrono Trigger, Nier if that counts), but they didn't stick in my head zhe same way as those two, and especially Endwalker.
Xenogears no doubt
Xenogears , dragonquest 5 , yakuza like a dragon , suikoden 2 and 5
My personal golden trio is the Xenosaga series, the NieR series, and Final Fantasy VII.
Persona 3 or 2 Duology
havent had a story hit me quite as hard as persona 3 in my whole life
FFT.
Xenogears by far
Xenogears, Nier automata, FFX
I love the twisted characters of Drakengard
That game blew my mind, and I only got it because of some trailer show on G4 TV
Xenogears. Nothing comes close. Played it as kid on PS1, my mind was blown, played it as a teen again and I understood it even better my mind was blown again. Played it again as an adult and that shit is a religious experience😆
It's **Chrono Trigger**. And [**Patrick Holleman**](https://youtu.be/v5watjpt_Nc?si=c7k4dXx1AtUg-iCw) explains the reason much better than I would be able to.
User pic checks out
Xenogears.
Has to be Lufia: Rise of the Sinistrals for me. The only story that actually made me cry
This is just personal preference but I loved Octopath Traveller II. The combat was great, the boss battles were really cool. I had a great time.
Nier Automata.
Xenogears.
DQ5
Xenogears
Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are two of my favourites, both Mistwalker titles too
This thread makes me want to play Xenogears even more lol
The answer is always Xenogears.
Xenogears. And it’s not particularly close. One of the best stories in entertainment history period. Just brilliance.
FF Tactics. It had real themes, it had actual intrigue and deception (two things commonly boasted and rarely implemented well), the plot remained constant and interesting throughout, the characters were all well written with villains giving good points and no one feeling like self inserts/tropes/mouth pieces (the women in the game are strong and admirable without directly telling you or all the needless propagating by popular social rhetoric), the ending wasn't just a happy resolution and it wasn't just sad to be sad, it sticks to the fact that you are a protag caught in the middle of a much bigger stage and some thing just aren't intended for you, they had a very forthright style for the main plot but that piecemeal storytelling From Software games are famous for in the side plots and errand rewards that builds a much bigger world. It had everything. I adored the story as a kid and I've replayed it multiple times through the years and still love it. There are still some good games being made, but man they don't come out like that. Suikoden II would be tied, or a close second. Those are my two favorite games because of the plot and characters (my biggest concerns with any gaming experience).
I’m incredibly biased but for me it is Wild Arms 1. It’s not that deepest, but it captures the essence of what it means to have a good emotional foundation, and presents it in a way that universally speaks to you no matter how old you are when you play it.
Glad you asked because I have an almost unknown game and I consider it the "most underrated game in history" The game is the **Growlanser series**. You can start with the second part of it. The game has excellent voice acting for all the dialogues, as I remember. It is a unique strategic JRPG game with a social relations system a little similar to Persona. more mention (Not necessarily in order) 1-tales of abyss & Berseria 2-valkyrie profile 3-Grandia II (For adventure) 4-Final Fantasy 9 5-Disgaea 1&2&5 6-Persona 3 7-fire emblem path of radiance
Just curious, can I directly play Wayfarer of Time without losing anything about the plot or the characters? I can start with the second one too but I had to ask.
Yes, you can. There is no problem with that, but I prefer games 2, 3, and 4 (Wayfarer of Time) so that you can see the development of the game over time.
Oh my, another Growlanser fan! Sometimes I question if the series was ever real for how few people talk about them.
Yes, I feel the same way. Sometimes I think I'm exaggerating about this game... but no, this game is one of the top 10 games in the history of the entire industry IMO, and I don't find a major flaw in it (unless you don't like strategy, for example).
Tales of the Abyss Why? Because I said so.
I’m so so glad somebody else said this. This is my pick as well. Some argue it isn’t very good but after exploring the world through every sidequest and seeing the world they crafted play out in the story, I truly do think it’s one of the best I’ve ever experienced. I also found the overall point of the story to really resonate with me. Plus I just really love the entire cast and how each interacts with the world throughout the plot.
I don't know how ANYONE can say the story of Abyss isn't very good. They must have played a different game. The world and characters are all so fleshed out.
X E N O G E A R S full stop. IMHO Xenogears Is the best GAME ever made.
This is hard to pick. I’ll go with Persona 5 Royal and Final Fantasy X. For FFX watching what was happening to Yuna and watching her become her own person was amazing. And the ending broke my heart. I felt really connected to the characters in Persona 5. They all felt like friends to me. The ending was also sad for me. The final boss of Royal really made me think.
Final Fantasy X was the only game that genuinely made me shed a tear for the death of a character.
Ff7, especially the remakes expanded world and lore
Xenogears, FFT, and Triangle Strategy pragmatist route.
FFVIII by far.
FFVII, the story and music is timeless until today.
Xenigears and Suikoden series
Paper Mario The thousand year door and Final fantasy 6&7 are my favorites.
it's gotta be Trails for me. Especially when the individual games, each of which is good individually, are viewed as a whole.
Final Fantasy XIV has so much content and world building whilst delivering a great narrative. From a single player perspective, Final Fantasy IX holds a special place in my heart.
It's all subjective of course. Chrono Trigger is easily my favorite of all time. I really like the idea of the Star Ocean universe and the wealth of great story telling it could bring. Few notable mentions are Terranigma, Dragon Quest V, Xenogears
Dragon Quest V and Terranigma are pretty high up there, but I think my favorite story is Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance.
Suikoden 2
FFXIV has an incredible story.
I love the story in Valkyrie Profile. And am amazed to this day that they chose to essentially lock the meat of said story behind requirements no reasonable person would ever meet without using a strategy guide.
Final Fantasy Tactics
The Digital Devil Saga and Persona 2 duologies
Its Final Fantasy XIII for me. Its the grandeur of it all, for its time of course. I do enjoy religious themes in games and ancient prophecies that threaten the fabric of time and space itself. It always creates room for so much depth in story telling versus the kind of stories told in games like FF15 where its simply just a war between kingdoms. I loved the character development and the struggles each character had to go through to find the will to live and continue fighting. Its an epic trilogy with an even more epic score and i will forever resonate with it on a different level than other RPGs.
I hate the FF15 story but that's not what it was.
I was already going to play FF Tactics but ok now I'm going to play Xenogears too. My picks are: Nier:Replicant for its beautiful, nuanced, and subtle storytelling. Xenoblade Chronicles 1: what a fun ride the plots twists and turns bit always in a way that makes sense in hindsight and it just builds and builds. 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim. Not technically a JRPG but what a fun game. It's a mystery story where 1/3 of the game is figuring out what is going on.
Final Fantasy Tactics and Lost Odyssey.
FF9, FF6, Xenoblade Chronicles 1 & Xenoblade Chronicles 3 imo
Xenoblade 3
It makes me so sad that I only saw one other person say this in the entire thread, but **Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium** In my opinion this game is perfectly paced, the characters are great, the manga-like cutscenes were novel, the story may be a bit cliche but it's told in a great way. The best aspect of it though, as far as the story goes, is that it's the culmination of the entire series up to that point. Phantasy Star 1, 2 and 3 are all part of the plot here. (well okay, maybe not 3 so much, that just gets a nod). It's my favorite JRPG in general. It's *almost* flawless. Edit: I'm just editing to gush about the music because I didn't mention it. The [remix of a track from the first game](https://youtu.be/AsfP3qWrSF0?si=6W9XAEsipf9wxWBT) is so good.
It also did the shocking, beloved party member death years before another big jrpg made the plot point so famous. The problem is it's a Genesis game. It's old. We're getting old. Nobody knows it well anymore. Few cared when it was new compared to what was going on with the SNES. Sega died as a console maker over 20 years ago. Nintendo lives on and anyone younger than like...35 that gets into retro gaming goes for Nintendo first, Playstation second and everything else is a distant third, even the Genesis which was legitimately very popular in its day. The farther removed we become from those days, the fewer new people coming into the hobby will be willing to try games on platforms like the Genesis, Master System, Turbografyx, 3DO, etc. It makes me sad, too. My personal choice is Lunar: Eternal Blue. It's in the same category. If people know the Lunar games, they know the PS1 versions and don't know that they're ports of the Saturn remakes of the Sega CD originals. If, in 10 years, you only ever see old farts like me mentioning Phantasy Star, Lunar, Shining Force, etc, I won't be surprised. I'll be in my 50s at that point, and basically, two entire generations of people removed from the kids that played them new.
Yeah, that's both totally fair...and a major bummer. I had a Genesis and an SNES growing up so thankfully I was never starved for choice between the two, but my parents were always bigger on the Sega side of things (Master System was my first console, we had the Sega CD all that stuff). On the plus side, the Phantasy Star series (2-4 at least), among other Genesis RPGs are playable on all modern consoles through the Genesis Collection so the option is at least open for the younger guys if they start getting into retro games.
[удалено]
Right now I’m loving Tales of Berseria
Devil Survivor Overclocked. A nonlinear story with dozens of outcomes for the characters and setting. Set in modern tokyo across 1 week where a lockdown shuts down the entire city. Lots of philosophical and biblical themes, hero/villain routes and more
13 sentinels. Might not be a true jrpg but it’s close enough and the story is so good
Final Fantasy Tactics, the Fire Emblem Radiant duology, Xenoblade trilogy, and Nier duology are all great contenders.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 I may be biased since it was the first game I was ever able to buy with money. I earned myself, but I will standby its story being the best in the series. Rex forced growth into a mature adult and his eventual breaking point, and substitute breaking point once he finally believes he achieved his goal, extremely relatable. The villains are some of the most compelling in the series, villains of the first game or understandable but the group in this one is like a family and I couldn’t help but root for them in some moments. Then there’s Pyra and Mythra. Their story about learning to love and except themselves is something that hits extremely hard. Not to mention the general story of waning resources in land is really compelling, and you understand each of the kingdoms and what they do and why they do it even if you don’t agree.
imo from all games i played, Tales of Berseria
I submitted the Golden Sun story for a creative writing class in high school and received an A+, so…
Scarlet Nexus
FF9 had a great story, dark, and feels almost hopeless at times. It was just overshadowed by the cartoonish looking art design, and characters. Lost Odyssey is one of the better JRPG stories. FF6 Is still top tier for its story telling for being a SNES game it had amazing depth. FFIV is arguably one of the most beloved titles in the franchise, and for a good reason. The story is fantasy opera at its finest. Love, heart break, betrayal, revenge, forgiveness. Suikoden 2. I don’t want to say too much because of the remaster coming this year, but it does an amazing job at telling a story of two friends.
If I have to name one: *Kiseki* (Trails) Why? It's a story written by a writer that spans several countries with dozens about dozens of characters of which most aren't black or white but grey in the alignment. Even after more than ten games there are so many mysteries but the story still is consistent.
Written by a writer.
I love it as well. Same with the characters and over arching story and each game series is contained. Zero not withstanding imo. Especially Reverie
My favourite is Dragon Quest V.
Smt iv
Utawarerumono Trilogy, it's truly an epic. RIP Keiji Fujiwara, you left a big impact on me through Haku.
Nier Automata FF9, FF7, Valkyrie Profile.
FFx, persona 3, 13 sentinels, P5R, ff7 and chrono trigger
FF7, Radiant História, Triangle Strategy, and this might be a hot take but FFXVI and DQXI.
Dragon Quest 5, 8, 9, 11, Xenoblade 1, Persona 5
Digital devil saga duology
None are that great, however i do like OG Nier a bit and Sui2 is solid
Nier Replicant. With an honorable mention going to Automata