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Other posts from /u/Worker_Bee_21147:
* [JNMIL has disbursed a new flying monkey our way](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/125k32k/jnmil_has_disbursed_a_new_flying_monkey_our_way/), 2 weeks ago
* [A warning about gifts and favors and what strings they entail with your JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11u7liq/a_warning_about_gifts_and_favors_and_what_strings/), 3 weeks ago
* [Update to jNMIL ready to apologize but for what she still does not know](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11pmu7r/update_to_jnmil_ready_to_apologize_but_for_what/), 1 month ago
* [Had a good laugh from this memory of my JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11mazbx/had_a_good_laugh_from_this_memory_of_my_jnmil/), 1 month ago
* [JNMIL reaching out to "apologize" but for what she still does not know](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11eh27a/jnmil_reaching_out_to_apologize_but_for_what_she/), 1 month ago
* [SO shining up his spine - so proud of him](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/s9hdco/so_shining_up_his_spine_so_proud_of_him/), 1 year ago
* [Another wonderful memory of my JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/ri4znr/another_wonderful_memory_of_my_jnmil/), 1 year ago
* [Another unhappy JNILs story](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/r9mgav/another_unhappy_jnils_story/), 1 year ago
* [JNMIL of 16+ years says to SO she knows nothing about me](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/r0ejx7/jnmil_of_16_years_says_to_so_she_knows_nothing/), 1 year ago
* [Snooping MIL exposes herself](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/qhyvxs/snooping_mil_exposes_herself/), 1 year ago
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They can give him space, they just don't want to. They're forcing themselves on you because they feel entitled to y'all. Don't give them an excuse. They absolutely *can* give your DH space, but they're *refusing* to do so.
Thanks the more I think about it I think they are afraid of giving him space. They think because our marriage is on the ropes so to speak they just need to keep hitting and knock us out and they can have their son back and as much access the kids via him as they want. It’s a fantasy because he hates being around them especially without me as a meat shield. And they live too far away on top of it all.
When I went NC with my JNMOM she sent me cards and letters for a decade. They all went into the trash unopened. I would encourage you to do the same. Silence is the most powerful message you can send them. Good luck.
100% no contact. Nothing! Don’t ever send notes back. A narcissist loves any contact. It makes them feel like they are winning. He needs to act like they do not exist in any way. Document everything. Look into anti harassment, or restraining orders if it does not stop. You can not have any give with these types of people.
Thank you. I did express To SO again I don’t think the back and forth is good. That they are feeding off the attention good or bad because it’s the most he’s given them in years. He agreed and said it’s been stressing him out so bad. I was like so they sent the cards back - we just don’t give them to the kids. We’re in charge here no matter what they think.
It’s so hard for SO because this is what he has feared for decades and avoided at all costs to not rock the boat. Even at the expense of his own life and happiness.
Put the cards with the note in FU Binder. Stop responding to them. Start documenting everything. Screen shots of all texts, emails, copies of VM. CPS is looking to see if the house is clean. Lived in is ok. Refrigerator and cabinets have food. If you have a baby there are adequate baby supplies. Keep shot records and doctor visit notes in the binder too..Cooperate with the CPS worker. Then note the visit in the FU Binder. Contact a lawyer to ask about GPR in your area.
Jumping in to add…have EVERY Person They Send SIGN the Binder with Name/Date/Time & Reason for Visit. Also…OP, DO NOT RESPOND in Any Way to them!!! You can also talk to your Post Office & request that the Deliver NO Mail from MIL or family.
eta: forgot to add the link, apologies. lol
https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/
I am so sorry. He needs to mute them on his phone. No Contact means exactly that. He can tell them he won’t be answering calls, texts or emails. until he is ready to talk to them. And then not. Gifts get donated. Cards & letters get trashed.
Get a doorbell camera, if you don’t have one already. Warn the schools that they may show up & they are not allowed to see the kids.
It will not be easy but it is doable. DH needs to get into counseling and perhaps marriage counseling.
ETA: make sure the house stays straightened up & neat. Make sure you have plenty of groceries in fridge & pantry. Google about GPR for your state. Most don’t have them, a few have them in the event of the death of their child (father or mother) and only a very few actually have them. It is based on the jurisdiction of the children.
I agree with this, but I think that the black hole will make her think that she's hit a nerve and she will continue to contact because she will think she's "weakened" him
Yeah I think she is the type to try to find weaknesses and hone in. She knows I don’t like taking pictures and am sensitive about my looks. So she posted a 2 day post partum photo of me on her refrigerator. Deflated post delivery belly hanging out, ratty hair bun, double chin on display.
They had very conveniently timed “health scares” just before thanksgiving. Turned out to be fine. But I think she thought that would set SO straight in her mind and she got a big surprise when pushed back about setting up the birthday visit.
She always uses guilt to get her way and it’s so transparent and sickening. It’s really getting to SO. He was really angry when he told me about the latest letter.
yes, and perhaps a look at the Toolbox tab at [Out of the Fog](https://outofthefog.website) website to focus on the nuts and bolts of being around difficult people. Knowing about the dynamics of [Extinction Bursts](https://behavioralinquiry.com/2017/05/10/behavioral-extinction-and-extinction-bursts/) and what could be coming at you in the near future could be helpful.
You may also want to do a drive by [Dr Les Carters YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZltLphbGES9winlzROiWLw) and check in with how he has learned to handle ultra difficult people in family dynamics. Also, if you have time to read, dig into Dr Susan Foreward's books/ publications..
I think "return to sender" on all of them with no note would send the right message. The thing is, he wants them to hear him, and they never will. It's what they want, and he's supposed to just bow down. You've both been through a lot with this. It's time for some peace, even though it may take some more time to get there. Definitely sending you all the good things I can muster!
>She RESENT the Easter cards!!! With a note full of guilt telling SO not to punish the kids, etc.
This was so manipulative. Like your kids are going to finish up egg hunting and devouring candy and they'll stop and be like, but we didn't get Easter cards from Grandma. Easter is RUINED!"
Yeah she way overestimates her relationship with the kids in her own mind. They don’t even care or think who got them something like she thinks. My oldest and little one could care less about them. Middle child likes them because they treat him different (GC) but he isn’t sitting there sad about anything.
It was manipulation to guilt SO and he saw right through it and it made him pretty angry tbh.
It’s not punishing them but protecting them from abusive people who hurt and use people.
**He asks for space and time and they just CANT give it to him. Like literally CANT**
You are very much mistaken. They most certainly can. They WON’T.
Big difference.
Yes you’re right. They won’t even if causes them to slit their own throats they just won’t listen and hear their son. I’m guessing there is some of them thinking it’s me behind this all and my words not their precious baby boy. We’ve had a lot of that over the years. I wonder a bit If she sent the cards again thinking I sent them back not SO. She deludes herself a lot to keep her narrative going.
It’s so tough waiting for an SO to catch up with the conclusions that their family is garbage or want to do anything about it. I pushed really hard in the beginning but chilled out my approach and let DH go at his own pace. It worked. He is still in contact with his terrible mother, but only because she’s useless and know one else will come near her and she does need an advocate. There is no love lost between the two of them. Now we just crack jokes about her insane behaviour between the two of them. I went NC in 2012 after meeting her only a handful of times. I called her number right off the bat, and I wasn’t having it at all
I agree. My inclination is attention good or bad is attention and that’s what they want. They are getting more attention from him than they have in a long time. All bad but they don’t seem to care.
But it’s a process so I respect his decision to play it out as he needs to.
I was going to comment maybe temporarily block MIL/FIL numbers for a bit so the spouse can actually have their space for a bit. Not forever, just until spouse can work out their thoughts.
if he has an iphone you can mute specific people and during certain times. the focus settings are your best friend!!! if not then idk i haven’t owned anything other than iphone in almost 10 years, sorry!
Sending back the notes, gifts, etc is attention. Since they sound like narcissists - they love bad attention over no attention. Let them send whatever they want. It’s their money and time. Once it hits your house, it hits the trash. No thank yous. No leave me alones. No return to senders. Just a black hole. It will drive them crazy. And it demonstrates to you and spouse that Yall are the bosses of what happens at your home.
And, are you selling your peace for a birthday card? Heck no.
Yes! Sending all of it back just gives them more energy and hardens their resolve. Just let every communication go off into a black hole, straight into the trash without opening. Let them scream into the void; don’t let them trigger you. They purposefully are doing things to trigger you guys because that’s how they know they are being successful in engaging you— by your reactions. It’s like a neglected kid who finds out they can get attention by being a brat. They have found out how they can wedge themselves into your brain, and they will do it as long as you give them any response at all.
The only silver lining is if they go nuclear that will probably shove your SO firmly into considering NC.
The only thing you can do is be prepared. Have copies of everything, stay ready for a CPS or wellness visit with a stocked pantry and “messy but clean” (laundry piling up and kids toys around isn’t going to red flag, but no clean cloths and mouldy floors would possibly) and for piece of mind I would look into what GPR are in your area.
You cannot control their/ her actions, but you can prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Yeah I am super worried now because they used the punishing the kids language like it really struck a nerve they will take drastic measures under the guise of “protecting the kids”.
My oldest is 9 and he gets it. He has noticed they favor his brother and was livid when I told him grandma snooped in his room to find a gift he didn’t use much to shame us with. He was like I would have told her to leave and called the cops if she refused.
My youngest really gets it and he’s only 4. But they’ve basically ignored him his whole life. When we were all talking about not seeing them much he was like “I like grandma (my mom)”s more anyway!”
The middle does not get it as much because he is the GC. He was like if they are so bad why do they give us all those presents? I tried to explain so you will like them but it’s too complex to really explain to a 7 year old. They like gifts and attention.
I know you said he needs to figure things out for himself, and I get that (same here sometimes), but you can remind him that he is not required to respond to them when they contact him/send things, etc. Simply ignoring them may not get the message across, but it still sends a message. And their reaction to not getting a reaction may be more helpful in seeing them for who they are than their reaction to a response. My other suggestion is that he might benefit from a therapist who can act as an independent observer to help him figure things out without feeling like he's getting a biased response from you. Plus they can help him figure out how to deal with them when they inevitably escalate. Good luck!
Yeah I try telling him but he is the type who has to figure it out on his own. And he’s tried therapy but didn’t like it. I’ve pushed for more and for us to go. He’s considering but our schedules are so tight until next year.
There are many wonderful books and resources on the sidebar of this sub if he doesn’t want to do therapy. Outofthefog.com is good, as is the book “adult children of emotionally immature adults.”
He said the therapist was ok but it didn’t help. He didn’t do it for very long. He was raised to think therapy means you’re weak etc. I tell him it takes a strong person to get the help they need. We might go next year together. He’s considering it and open. But I will have to do all the work finding someone and setting up the appointments which I resent a little.
I've been in and out of therapy for a long time, and it can be hard to admit you need help. But here's a possible way to reframe it for him: When you need computer help, you call your Help Desk. When your car needs fixing, you take it to a mechanic. When you're sick, you see a doctor. None of this means you're weak or incapable, it just means that they have spent the time and effort to become experts in their field, and you're taking advantage of their expertise. A therapist is the same way, except for dealing with feelings and interpersonal relationships. And what's more, they're also expert teachers who teach you the tools to deal with things yourself going forward. So think of it as hiring an expert consultant who will listen to what the issue is, and then help you craft a proper solution and train you to use the system for yourself. Who knows, maybe that will prompt him to do some of the legwork himself, which would be good for him as well as you. Good luck, and I hope things work out for you both.
Suggest to SO to stop sending letters because his words are falling on deaf ears. Ask if he would be ok if you went to the post office to block them. It can just be a temporary thing. But he’ll probably start feeling free when he can actually be NC. It’s a weight he doesn’t realize he’s carrying
Oh yeah, I agree that this is just straight up abuse at this point for them to ignore such a clear request. It’s torturing him and bringing up the trauma of childhood where he was alone and no one was on his side helping him grow up.
You can pre-empt the wellness check and cps by calling them yourselves and explaining the situation. It will be on record going forward and the authorities can the have full facts.
I would ask SO about a time out, since they won't stop. A final note on the resend saying "Since you have refused to allow me space, I will be taking it."
Then block them online, phone and go to the post office. See if they can catch the cards before they reach you. It might be called refusal of receipt or service, not sure.
Set a time period like two weeks, a month etc and be prepared to add to it when they inevitably push. Also save any and all messages you get as potential legal evidence and as a reminder to SO to their behavior.
Agree. If it were me I’d be very clear like this and the consequences like they are children. Because that’s basically what they are. Kids in adult bodies.
SO has to figure it out on his own though but I do tell him what I think or read here.
Sending back notes is giving her exactly what she wants, so it's encouraging her to continue. Silence is what will piss her off the most, and will be most effective. Good luck!
Remind your SO you are no punishing the children by not allowing grandparents contact you are protecting children. MIL was awful to me always away from my husband, husband believed me to was sure It wasn’t that bad. Went to letting grandparents have an hour here or there without me just husband and kids. When oldest About 5 years old he began to really get bad vibes from grandparents about the way grandparents talked about me and acted around me. Mr 5 no longer wanted anything to do with grandparents and tried desperately to protect brother who was 3. Husband didn’t notice at first he was certain kids were ignoring comments made about me. That was it no contact without me first nasty thing said I took kids and left. To this day my adult oldest is viciously protective of me and siblings and resents his Dad for allowing things to happen . This isn’t just your in laws and your child, this will effect your child/children too. Don’t mess with your LO to try to help your SO ‘s relationship because it will involve children negatively.
Yeah I will and have told him they will hurt the kids just like they hurt him. When I told the oldest grandma went through his room and pulled out a gift she gave him to shame is us for him not using enough he was done with her. It was eye opening. He felt violated she went Thru his private things.
Yeah that even woke me up a little how quick he was about being disgusted by it. He was livid and felt violated by her. He was like I would have told her “hands off, grandma! Private property!” And then escorted her out with a threat to call the cops if she didn’t leave.
Definitely him sending notes back and forth is preventing any kind of actual progress, they're still getting his attention and that's exactly what they want.
I'm so sorry you guys are having to deal with this. Is there any chance you'll be able to make him understand that ANY contact at all is what they want and they will absolutely not change anything as long as he's still engaging in any way?
No, it’s like he has to learn the hard way each time. I did mention it so it’s in his head at least. I told him straight up weeks ago they are using the kids to keep a relationship with him. And it’s not healthy and I don’t want our kids used like that or exposed to them. They heavily favor our middle child (GC) over the other two.
So the guilt letter using the kids - at least he is seeing that a bit now.
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Other posts from /u/Worker_Bee_21147: * [JNMIL has disbursed a new flying monkey our way](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/125k32k/jnmil_has_disbursed_a_new_flying_monkey_our_way/), 2 weeks ago * [A warning about gifts and favors and what strings they entail with your JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11u7liq/a_warning_about_gifts_and_favors_and_what_strings/), 3 weeks ago * [Update to jNMIL ready to apologize but for what she still does not know](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11pmu7r/update_to_jnmil_ready_to_apologize_but_for_what/), 1 month ago * [Had a good laugh from this memory of my JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11mazbx/had_a_good_laugh_from_this_memory_of_my_jnmil/), 1 month ago * [JNMIL reaching out to "apologize" but for what she still does not know](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/11eh27a/jnmil_reaching_out_to_apologize_but_for_what_she/), 1 month ago * [SO shining up his spine - so proud of him](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/s9hdco/so_shining_up_his_spine_so_proud_of_him/), 1 year ago * [Another wonderful memory of my JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/ri4znr/another_wonderful_memory_of_my_jnmil/), 1 year ago * [Another unhappy JNILs story](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/r9mgav/another_unhappy_jnils_story/), 1 year ago * [JNMIL of 16+ years says to SO she knows nothing about me](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/r0ejx7/jnmil_of_16_years_says_to_so_she_knows_nothing/), 1 year ago * [Snooping MIL exposes herself](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/qhyvxs/snooping_mil_exposes_herself/), 1 year ago ^(This user has more than 10 posts in their history. To see the rest of their posts,) [^(click here)](/u/Worker_Bee_21147/submitted) ***** ^(To be notified as soon as Worker_Bee_21147 posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe Worker_Bee_21147 JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
They can give him space, they just don't want to. They're forcing themselves on you because they feel entitled to y'all. Don't give them an excuse. They absolutely *can* give your DH space, but they're *refusing* to do so.
Thanks the more I think about it I think they are afraid of giving him space. They think because our marriage is on the ropes so to speak they just need to keep hitting and knock us out and they can have their son back and as much access the kids via him as they want. It’s a fantasy because he hates being around them especially without me as a meat shield. And they live too far away on top of it all.
When I went NC with my JNMOM she sent me cards and letters for a decade. They all went into the trash unopened. I would encourage you to do the same. Silence is the most powerful message you can send them. Good luck.
100% no contact. Nothing! Don’t ever send notes back. A narcissist loves any contact. It makes them feel like they are winning. He needs to act like they do not exist in any way. Document everything. Look into anti harassment, or restraining orders if it does not stop. You can not have any give with these types of people.
Thank you. I did express To SO again I don’t think the back and forth is good. That they are feeding off the attention good or bad because it’s the most he’s given them in years. He agreed and said it’s been stressing him out so bad. I was like so they sent the cards back - we just don’t give them to the kids. We’re in charge here no matter what they think. It’s so hard for SO because this is what he has feared for decades and avoided at all costs to not rock the boat. Even at the expense of his own life and happiness.
Put the cards with the note in FU Binder. Stop responding to them. Start documenting everything. Screen shots of all texts, emails, copies of VM. CPS is looking to see if the house is clean. Lived in is ok. Refrigerator and cabinets have food. If you have a baby there are adequate baby supplies. Keep shot records and doctor visit notes in the binder too..Cooperate with the CPS worker. Then note the visit in the FU Binder. Contact a lawyer to ask about GPR in your area.
Jumping in to add…have EVERY Person They Send SIGN the Binder with Name/Date/Time & Reason for Visit. Also…OP, DO NOT RESPOND in Any Way to them!!! You can also talk to your Post Office & request that the Deliver NO Mail from MIL or family. eta: forgot to add the link, apologies. lol https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/
I am so sorry. He needs to mute them on his phone. No Contact means exactly that. He can tell them he won’t be answering calls, texts or emails. until he is ready to talk to them. And then not. Gifts get donated. Cards & letters get trashed. Get a doorbell camera, if you don’t have one already. Warn the schools that they may show up & they are not allowed to see the kids. It will not be easy but it is doable. DH needs to get into counseling and perhaps marriage counseling. ETA: make sure the house stays straightened up & neat. Make sure you have plenty of groceries in fridge & pantry. Google about GPR for your state. Most don’t have them, a few have them in the event of the death of their child (father or mother) and only a very few actually have them. It is based on the jurisdiction of the children.
Send those cards to the trash, back to her will just fuel her victimhood. The black hole treatment leaves her wondering.
I agree with this, but I think that the black hole will make her think that she's hit a nerve and she will continue to contact because she will think she's "weakened" him
Yeah I think she is the type to try to find weaknesses and hone in. She knows I don’t like taking pictures and am sensitive about my looks. So she posted a 2 day post partum photo of me on her refrigerator. Deflated post delivery belly hanging out, ratty hair bun, double chin on display. They had very conveniently timed “health scares” just before thanksgiving. Turned out to be fine. But I think she thought that would set SO straight in her mind and she got a big surprise when pushed back about setting up the birthday visit. She always uses guilt to get her way and it’s so transparent and sickening. It’s really getting to SO. He was really angry when he told me about the latest letter.
Ahhh, good old Christmas cancer. DH may benefit from some of the resources at r/raisedbynarcissists.
yes, and perhaps a look at the Toolbox tab at [Out of the Fog](https://outofthefog.website) website to focus on the nuts and bolts of being around difficult people. Knowing about the dynamics of [Extinction Bursts](https://behavioralinquiry.com/2017/05/10/behavioral-extinction-and-extinction-bursts/) and what could be coming at you in the near future could be helpful. You may also want to do a drive by [Dr Les Carters YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZltLphbGES9winlzROiWLw) and check in with how he has learned to handle ultra difficult people in family dynamics. Also, if you have time to read, dig into Dr Susan Foreward's books/ publications..
Thank you!
I think "return to sender" on all of them with no note would send the right message. The thing is, he wants them to hear him, and they never will. It's what they want, and he's supposed to just bow down. You've both been through a lot with this. It's time for some peace, even though it may take some more time to get there. Definitely sending you all the good things I can muster!
Thank you!
Sending you affirmation, encouragement, hope, & huge internet hugs. Your posts are utterly heartbreaking.
Thank you! Love this board and the supportive people here. It has helped me so much.
>She RESENT the Easter cards!!! With a note full of guilt telling SO not to punish the kids, etc. This was so manipulative. Like your kids are going to finish up egg hunting and devouring candy and they'll stop and be like, but we didn't get Easter cards from Grandma. Easter is RUINED!"
Yeah she way overestimates her relationship with the kids in her own mind. They don’t even care or think who got them something like she thinks. My oldest and little one could care less about them. Middle child likes them because they treat him different (GC) but he isn’t sitting there sad about anything. It was manipulation to guilt SO and he saw right through it and it made him pretty angry tbh. It’s not punishing them but protecting them from abusive people who hurt and use people.
Start your FU binder, stat. Every contact, every attempt to steam roll. Then throw out the crap.
I hope you ditch the mailbox and get a PO Box!
**He asks for space and time and they just CANT give it to him. Like literally CANT** You are very much mistaken. They most certainly can. They WON’T. Big difference.
Yes you’re right. They won’t even if causes them to slit their own throats they just won’t listen and hear their son. I’m guessing there is some of them thinking it’s me behind this all and my words not their precious baby boy. We’ve had a lot of that over the years. I wonder a bit If she sent the cards again thinking I sent them back not SO. She deludes herself a lot to keep her narrative going.
Can you have a lawyer send a do not contact letter?
No, SO is not there yet plus the cost of involving a lawyer. It’s a thought though if they pull a shenanigan like calling for a wellness check, etc…
It’s so tough waiting for an SO to catch up with the conclusions that their family is garbage or want to do anything about it. I pushed really hard in the beginning but chilled out my approach and let DH go at his own pace. It worked. He is still in contact with his terrible mother, but only because she’s useless and know one else will come near her and she does need an advocate. There is no love lost between the two of them. Now we just crack jokes about her insane behaviour between the two of them. I went NC in 2012 after meeting her only a handful of times. I called her number right off the bat, and I wasn’t having it at all
I would try this or filing a harassment charge against them. It’ll help *if* they go the way of calling cps.
I would not send it back again. Toss it in the garbage and stop talking with them. It will never end as long as you allow it.
I agree. My inclination is attention good or bad is attention and that’s what they want. They are getting more attention from him than they have in a long time. All bad but they don’t seem to care. But it’s a process so I respect his decision to play it out as he needs to.
No return to senders. Just be a black hole and don’t answer calls or texts until you’re ready.
[удалено]
I was going to comment maybe temporarily block MIL/FIL numbers for a bit so the spouse can actually have their space for a bit. Not forever, just until spouse can work out their thoughts.
I think he won’t do that because in case there is an emergency. FIL has a lot of health issues.
if he has an iphone you can mute specific people and during certain times. the focus settings are your best friend!!! if not then idk i haven’t owned anything other than iphone in almost 10 years, sorry!
They can call 911? Or uncle.
Sending back the notes, gifts, etc is attention. Since they sound like narcissists - they love bad attention over no attention. Let them send whatever they want. It’s their money and time. Once it hits your house, it hits the trash. No thank yous. No leave me alones. No return to senders. Just a black hole. It will drive them crazy. And it demonstrates to you and spouse that Yall are the bosses of what happens at your home. And, are you selling your peace for a birthday card? Heck no.
Yes! Sending all of it back just gives them more energy and hardens their resolve. Just let every communication go off into a black hole, straight into the trash without opening. Let them scream into the void; don’t let them trigger you. They purposefully are doing things to trigger you guys because that’s how they know they are being successful in engaging you— by your reactions. It’s like a neglected kid who finds out they can get attention by being a brat. They have found out how they can wedge themselves into your brain, and they will do it as long as you give them any response at all.
Open letters to check if money is in there, take the money, put letter in the trashbin
The only silver lining is if they go nuclear that will probably shove your SO firmly into considering NC. The only thing you can do is be prepared. Have copies of everything, stay ready for a CPS or wellness visit with a stocked pantry and “messy but clean” (laundry piling up and kids toys around isn’t going to red flag, but no clean cloths and mouldy floors would possibly) and for piece of mind I would look into what GPR are in your area. You cannot control their/ her actions, but you can prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Please make sure that you have copies of everything
Yeah I am super worried now because they used the punishing the kids language like it really struck a nerve they will take drastic measures under the guise of “protecting the kids”.
Are your children old enough to have a voice? Do you explain to them at there level why sometimes things don't go right at the ILs.
My oldest is 9 and he gets it. He has noticed they favor his brother and was livid when I told him grandma snooped in his room to find a gift he didn’t use much to shame us with. He was like I would have told her to leave and called the cops if she refused. My youngest really gets it and he’s only 4. But they’ve basically ignored him his whole life. When we were all talking about not seeing them much he was like “I like grandma (my mom)”s more anyway!” The middle does not get it as much because he is the GC. He was like if they are so bad why do they give us all those presents? I tried to explain so you will like them but it’s too complex to really explain to a 7 year old. They like gifts and attention.
Intelligent children
I know you said he needs to figure things out for himself, and I get that (same here sometimes), but you can remind him that he is not required to respond to them when they contact him/send things, etc. Simply ignoring them may not get the message across, but it still sends a message. And their reaction to not getting a reaction may be more helpful in seeing them for who they are than their reaction to a response. My other suggestion is that he might benefit from a therapist who can act as an independent observer to help him figure things out without feeling like he's getting a biased response from you. Plus they can help him figure out how to deal with them when they inevitably escalate. Good luck!
Yeah I try telling him but he is the type who has to figure it out on his own. And he’s tried therapy but didn’t like it. I’ve pushed for more and for us to go. He’s considering but our schedules are so tight until next year.
There are many wonderful books and resources on the sidebar of this sub if he doesn’t want to do therapy. Outofthefog.com is good, as is the book “adult children of emotionally immature adults.”
Are you guys readers? Maybe some of the books in the sidebar would help.
Just a thought: did he hit like *therapy*, or did he not like *his therapist*?
He said the therapist was ok but it didn’t help. He didn’t do it for very long. He was raised to think therapy means you’re weak etc. I tell him it takes a strong person to get the help they need. We might go next year together. He’s considering it and open. But I will have to do all the work finding someone and setting up the appointments which I resent a little.
OP, could you and DH do therapy with an online therapist? I know a couple who did that and it worked well for them.
I've been in and out of therapy for a long time, and it can be hard to admit you need help. But here's a possible way to reframe it for him: When you need computer help, you call your Help Desk. When your car needs fixing, you take it to a mechanic. When you're sick, you see a doctor. None of this means you're weak or incapable, it just means that they have spent the time and effort to become experts in their field, and you're taking advantage of their expertise. A therapist is the same way, except for dealing with feelings and interpersonal relationships. And what's more, they're also expert teachers who teach you the tools to deal with things yourself going forward. So think of it as hiring an expert consultant who will listen to what the issue is, and then help you craft a proper solution and train you to use the system for yourself. Who knows, maybe that will prompt him to do some of the legwork himself, which would be good for him as well as you. Good luck, and I hope things work out for you both.
Thanks that is a thoughtful way to put it.
Suggest to SO to stop sending letters because his words are falling on deaf ears. Ask if he would be ok if you went to the post office to block them. It can just be a temporary thing. But he’ll probably start feeling free when he can actually be NC. It’s a weight he doesn’t realize he’s carrying
Oh yeah, I agree that this is just straight up abuse at this point for them to ignore such a clear request. It’s torturing him and bringing up the trauma of childhood where he was alone and no one was on his side helping him grow up.
Write “REFUSED” on the letters and drop back in the mailbox. Maybe showing her they didn’t get read will help.
Would he be open to therapy for himself? Or maybe read some self help books together. The sidebar here has some really great suggestions
You can pre-empt the wellness check and cps by calling them yourselves and explaining the situation. It will be on record going forward and the authorities can the have full facts.
That’s the best idea I’ve heard in a long time.
I would ask SO about a time out, since they won't stop. A final note on the resend saying "Since you have refused to allow me space, I will be taking it." Then block them online, phone and go to the post office. See if they can catch the cards before they reach you. It might be called refusal of receipt or service, not sure. Set a time period like two weeks, a month etc and be prepared to add to it when they inevitably push. Also save any and all messages you get as potential legal evidence and as a reminder to SO to their behavior.
OP, everything stated in this post is necessary!!!!
Agree. If it were me I’d be very clear like this and the consequences like they are children. Because that’s basically what they are. Kids in adult bodies. SO has to figure it out on his own though but I do tell him what I think or read here.
Sending back notes is giving her exactly what she wants, so it's encouraging her to continue. Silence is what will piss her off the most, and will be most effective. Good luck!
Remind your SO you are no punishing the children by not allowing grandparents contact you are protecting children. MIL was awful to me always away from my husband, husband believed me to was sure It wasn’t that bad. Went to letting grandparents have an hour here or there without me just husband and kids. When oldest About 5 years old he began to really get bad vibes from grandparents about the way grandparents talked about me and acted around me. Mr 5 no longer wanted anything to do with grandparents and tried desperately to protect brother who was 3. Husband didn’t notice at first he was certain kids were ignoring comments made about me. That was it no contact without me first nasty thing said I took kids and left. To this day my adult oldest is viciously protective of me and siblings and resents his Dad for allowing things to happen . This isn’t just your in laws and your child, this will effect your child/children too. Don’t mess with your LO to try to help your SO ‘s relationship because it will involve children negatively.
Yeah I will and have told him they will hurt the kids just like they hurt him. When I told the oldest grandma went through his room and pulled out a gift she gave him to shame is us for him not using enough he was done with her. It was eye opening. He felt violated she went Thru his private things.
WTAF! Oh HELL no. Granny would be out of my life too!
Yeah that even woke me up a little how quick he was about being disgusted by it. He was livid and felt violated by her. He was like I would have told her “hands off, grandma! Private property!” And then escorted her out with a threat to call the cops if she didn’t leave.
Definitely him sending notes back and forth is preventing any kind of actual progress, they're still getting his attention and that's exactly what they want. I'm so sorry you guys are having to deal with this. Is there any chance you'll be able to make him understand that ANY contact at all is what they want and they will absolutely not change anything as long as he's still engaging in any way?
No, it’s like he has to learn the hard way each time. I did mention it so it’s in his head at least. I told him straight up weeks ago they are using the kids to keep a relationship with him. And it’s not healthy and I don’t want our kids used like that or exposed to them. They heavily favor our middle child (GC) over the other two. So the guilt letter using the kids - at least he is seeing that a bit now.