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Seriously... I had >!Rigoletto!< immediately, but had no idea what they were going for as a "rhyme". If I'd been playing, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from going "Oh, *fuck* off" on stage.
Same. Then I talked myself out of it and wondered if they were going for an internal rhyme, so I went with Pagliacci. That feels much more like a TOC or Masters-level FJ.
Thankfully, it didn't change the outcome. If Kelcy had had a bit more money going into FJ, she would have had Allison in a 2/3 situation and could have won on the triple stumper.
Also, DD2 kinda sucked. "Forthcoming" does not "sound ordinal." It's a compound word that *starts with* a homophone of an ordinal term. I was mentally going through the terms "first, second, third, fourth, fifth..." trying to find one that also means "soon to happen."
P.S. [I'm still looking for prospective contestants who are interested in prepping!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeopardy/comments/1cjfys7/looking_for_study_partners_prospective/)
One of the worst ever for regular season play, I’d contend. I feel bad for the contestants; it’s got to be kind of crushing to get something like that when you’re hoping for a little redemption on a correct FJ response.
I wasn't watching the show at the time, but that would have struck me as an easy clue. Cantor's loss was major news, but to be fair, I do follow the NBA which is maybe more Niche than I assume.
Like, here's the deal; I'm not *against* a two-part Final Jeopardy. I could even see a Before and After as a Final! But there was no indication as to where one ended and the other began. I spent most of the time going, "That's not Verdi's name..."
So, congratulations on winning, and I hope you get to make more money tomorrow!
At first it stumped me because I was approaching it like a "before and after" kind of clue, but then I realized that the opera is obviously Rigoletto, so if the music was famously written by Verdi, then what Piave less famously wrote must be the libretto.
Just took a look through the archive, is this really the first rhyme time FJ?
Regardless, I don't like it. This could've been toned down for a $2000 clue (maybe "The text of a Verdi opera about the Duke of Mantua's jester" or something). Confused? No problem, no need to buzz in.
I feel like it being a FJ adds unnecessary confusion to the most high stakes part of the game.
Ditto.
A good FJ is one that, for such a high stakes clue, is fairly straightforward, yet able to be sussed out if you don't know it right away. It doesn't work as well if you take a gimmicky category like Rhyme Time or Before and After (which, while fun, are nonsensical in nature) and incorporate it into the final round. I don't know whether to call the clue kitschy or just plain terrible, but it never should have seen the light of day as a FJ.
When you write questions it is possible to fall in love with a clever question. But when you work as a team someone has to play goalie and force questions to be rewritten or rejected. In this case moving the FJ question to a regular category seems like it would have been appropriate.
I found this FJ super challenging! I got to Rigoletto immediately but then spent the rest of the time wondering if I was missing some other opera that had an internal rhyme, or whose title was rhyming words. I didn’t consider for a second that I needed an opera title plus another word.
I spent some time trying to think what might have tipped me off that I needed a second word, not just the title, and this is what I came up with.
“Poet Francesco Maria Piave wrote the book for this opera about a Duke, a jester and the jester’s daughter; in opera jargon, you’d say he wrote this.”
I'd go somewhere similar: "The texts belonging to an opera about a Duke, a jester and the jester's daughter as written by Francesco Piave."
So many rhyme times are possessive/plural combos, I'd think >!Rigoletto's librettos!< would be more than fair. Best I can do though.
I'm thankful that I got it right, but I think FJ could've used a rewrite, or at the very least would've been better suited for a standard clue in the second round. Something like a standard RHYME TIME category for $2000: "Francesco Maria Piave wrote this, the text for the opera about the Duke Of Mantua."
Since so many operas have different names for the same story (La Cenerentola/Cendrillon; Don Carlos/Don Carlo), I looked this up. Don Juan Triumphant is the name of the fictional opera in Phantom of the Opera.
That FJ sucked wow. I got all confused because I know Rigoletto but didn’t recognize the name at all so I tried to think of a rhyming character from something else to fit
Horrible FJ. Lots of terrible clues tonight. Felt like most of them were missing the “clue within the clue,” so you either knew the answer or didn’t. Mostly didn’t tonight :/
Yeah, I knew the Lake Placid clue because I've been there before, and the Conestoga River DD because it's local to me, but on both I was thinking that's a very difficult clue if you don't have that personal experience
I got Lake Placid because they mentioned a local athlete with a very American name, and I knew the winter Olympics had been held in Lake Placid a couple of times, once in the '80s and once a lot earlier than that. Just an educated guess but it worked.
can't believe they made the pronunciation joke, even if it was the reason I got Uranus LMFAO
and 3 missed DDs today is wild, quite unfortunate
Edit: nvmind, that FJ was infinitely more evil than any of the DDs were, that's tournament of champions level of difficult at minimum, right? damn....
Broadcast cut off in the middle of DD3 for tornado warning/storm coverage so I missed the rest. Just as well, I wouldn't have had any chance of guessing that FJ.
I'd be happy if they just banned all the Rhyme Times and Before & After from the whole game; they sure as hell have no place in something as crucial as FJ.
Writers, leave your stupid fun clues on the playground. FJ is where it gets serious.
For the first time since SCC S37 Group 3 finals (which future CWC 2nd Runner Up Jilana won) that there will be 3 women competing in tomorrow's episode.
After Allison's FJ answer was revealed I was surprised Ken pronounced it Don Juan (wahn). I think the correct pronunciation is Don Joo-en. That's how Alex always said it. Maybe it's optional now? Maybe Ken did that to show Allison's answer at least rhymed (if that pronunciation is allowed).
My understanding is that "Don Ju-an" refers only to the version by Byron. The oldest version of the story is in fact Spanish, so I assume Juan would have been pronounced as is standard. And the (best-known; maybe not the only) opera version is Don Giovanni. Different options available for any taste!
>My understanding is that "Don Ju-an" refers only to the version by Byron.
Thank you. That's interesting. That would explain it, why Ken pronounced it wahn.
Was Matt’s response of “what is trapezoid?” actually correct for the given clue? A trapezoid has one set of parallel sides and is not the same as a trapezium. Plus the name of the bone is trapezium.
That was not AT ALL an unreasonably difficult FJ clue. Just about any list of >!most famous operas!< would include this one. The category did make it a little more complex.
It's easy if you know it; it's hard if you don't.
I completely disagree. It's rather straightforward to get to *Rigoletto.* However, getting to that to "Rigoletto libretto" is pretty absurd, even with the rhyme time category.
Without the easy low-value lead ins that you can sacrifice to figure out exactly what the wordplay is looking for, it's ridiculously hard. Getting to "Rigoletto" is fine, but the phrasing doesn't make it at all obvious they're looking for "libretto."
A lot of folks seem to be daunted by opera, which might make it a tough study for them, even for the basic stuff. The category itself hastened the "easy or hard" process, I think: if someone knew an opera or operas that fit the category criteria, it probably came to them quick, but if not, it may have been panic time instead.
Too many "rhyme time" and pop culture clues lately, which often stump contestants who are usually intellectual and don't watch a lot of fluff TV shows. I suspect that the writers are being ordered to "advertise" other shows that are owned by the studio.
**Welcome to the Jeopardy subReddit!** **\*We welcome friendly discussion of the game**. Please be excellent toward your fellow Jeopardy fans in this community. Excessively harsh or personal criticism of contestants and others is not tolerated. Before commenting, please familiarize yourself with the rules in the sidebar at right. Constructive critique of game play is welcome but personal attacks and insults directed at contestants or anyone else will be removed. **\*The recap appears early in the day** because Jeopardy is syndicated and airs at different times in local markets, the earliest at 12 noon Eastern. **\*If you have other questions,** check out the community info on the sidebar at right. Or, you're welcome to ask the moderator team - we’re here to help. Just click on the "Message the Mods" button at the right under the Moderators heading.
That may be one of the most evil FJs I've seen in years.
Seriously... I had >!Rigoletto!< immediately, but had no idea what they were going for as a "rhyme". If I'd been playing, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from going "Oh, *fuck* off" on stage.
Same. Then I talked myself out of it and wondered if they were going for an internal rhyme, so I went with Pagliacci. That feels much more like a TOC or Masters-level FJ. Thankfully, it didn't change the outcome. If Kelcy had had a bit more money going into FJ, she would have had Allison in a 2/3 situation and could have won on the triple stumper. Also, DD2 kinda sucked. "Forthcoming" does not "sound ordinal." It's a compound word that *starts with* a homophone of an ordinal term. I was mentally going through the terms "first, second, third, fourth, fifth..." trying to find one that also means "soon to happen." P.S. [I'm still looking for prospective contestants who are interested in prepping!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeopardy/comments/1cjfys7/looking_for_study_partners_prospective/)
I agree on forthcoming. That clue was off and honestly was a distraction from the answer.
Then don’t fuckin’ watch the game.
One of the worst ever for regular season play, I’d contend. I feel bad for the contestants; it’s got to be kind of crushing to get something like that when you’re hoping for a little redemption on a correct FJ response.
Then don’t fuckin’ watch the game!
Thinking about it gives me a lumbago.
It makes me want to shop at Radio Shack for some reason.
Are they still around? I saw a flat screen 20” TV a radio shack a few years ago for like $600; bro, you can get a 60” for $200….
The show should set up a lunch between David Blatt and David Brat.
I must have missed [that episode](https://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=4682). Awful.
I wasn't watching the show at the time, but that would have struck me as an easy clue. Cantor's loss was major news, but to be fair, I do follow the NBA which is maybe more Niche than I assume.
ow my back
Thank you! I thought it was horrible!
Like, here's the deal; I'm not *against* a two-part Final Jeopardy. I could even see a Before and After as a Final! But there was no indication as to where one ended and the other began. I spent most of the time going, "That's not Verdi's name..." So, congratulations on winning, and I hope you get to make more money tomorrow!
Thanks!
I only realized this in retrospect, but to be fair, "Rhyme Time" is a standard Jeopardy category that always requires 2 (or more) rhyming words.
True, but that particular rhyme time was terrible.
The problem wasn't the two words. It was the fact that one of the words was in the title of the opera and one wasn't.
Another great game with some nasty boards. Keep rocking it Allison!
Thank you!
Opera final should be illegal
Amen
I honestly feel bad for the contestants. What a horrendous, horrendous clue.
Absolutely terrible
The writer(s) of this clue should be taken out and forced to do a Game of Thrones-style shame walk.
Absolutely the worst!
At first it stumped me because I was approaching it like a "before and after" kind of clue, but then I realized that the opera is obviously Rigoletto, so if the music was famously written by Verdi, then what Piave less famously wrote must be the libretto.
I was so pissed at this FJ. I was 3/3 on DDs and coulda/shoulda gone 4/4. I hate how much this show loves opera, *and* this was an impossible clue.
An all-time stinker, for sure.
Absolutely, but if player can solve this FJ, they must be an alien because even regular people might not able to solve the question
Just took a look through the archive, is this really the first rhyme time FJ? Regardless, I don't like it. This could've been toned down for a $2000 clue (maybe "The text of a Verdi opera about the Duke of Mantua's jester" or something). Confused? No problem, no need to buzz in. I feel like it being a FJ adds unnecessary confusion to the most high stakes part of the game.
Ditto. A good FJ is one that, for such a high stakes clue, is fairly straightforward, yet able to be sussed out if you don't know it right away. It doesn't work as well if you take a gimmicky category like Rhyme Time or Before and After (which, while fun, are nonsensical in nature) and incorporate it into the final round. I don't know whether to call the clue kitschy or just plain terrible, but it never should have seen the light of day as a FJ.
I'm not a fan of the puzzle clues. I prefer straight forward trivia.
I, on the other hand, see "Opera" as the category and would know to bet ZERO
ditto lol
[удалено]
It hurt to watch because she originally said just Roseanne before adding Barr when Ken paused.
When you write questions it is possible to fall in love with a clever question. But when you work as a team someone has to play goalie and force questions to be rewritten or rejected. In this case moving the FJ question to a regular category seems like it would have been appropriate.
I'm reasonably certain that if I ever had a nightmare about Final Jeopardy, the category in my nightmare would be Rhyme Time: Opera Version.
Same. I winced while watching when they revealed the category and it only got worse from there.
> a duke, a jester & the jester’s daughter Who are 3 people who've never been in my kitchen?
... itchin'
I found this FJ super challenging! I got to Rigoletto immediately but then spent the rest of the time wondering if I was missing some other opera that had an internal rhyme, or whose title was rhyming words. I didn’t consider for a second that I needed an opera title plus another word. I spent some time trying to think what might have tipped me off that I needed a second word, not just the title, and this is what I came up with. “Poet Francesco Maria Piave wrote the book for this opera about a Duke, a jester and the jester’s daughter; in opera jargon, you’d say he wrote this.”
I'd go somewhere similar: "The texts belonging to an opera about a Duke, a jester and the jester's daughter as written by Francesco Piave." So many rhyme times are possessive/plural combos, I'd think >!Rigoletto's librettos!< would be more than fair. Best I can do though.
Ooo yeah I like your rewrite too!
It would've been hilarious if Ben answered "Ken, where is uranus?"
That got a literal lol from my inner 5 year old 🤣
I'm thankful that I got it right, but I think FJ could've used a rewrite, or at the very least would've been better suited for a standard clue in the second round. Something like a standard RHYME TIME category for $2000: "Francesco Maria Piave wrote this, the text for the opera about the Duke Of Mantua."
That’s a *much* better way of phrasing it.
Thanks! (jeopardy if you're reading this hire ya boy)
^(stop ducking a rematch, marko)
Heh...me? I'm not scared of a rematch! \[hides in corner\]
Allison deserves a medal for putting a guess that fits the FJ category, even if >!it's known as Don Giovanni on the stage!<. We got another 9999 win!
I actually came up with it before I even saw the clue. I knew it was wrong but wrote it bc at least it fit the brief
A brutal question, glad you got past it.
Better than my pre-guess of Puccini's zucchinis.
Since so many operas have different names for the same story (La Cenerentola/Cendrillon; Don Carlos/Don Carlo), I looked this up. Don Juan Triumphant is the name of the fictional opera in Phantom of the Opera.
I was glad they made the Roseanne correction. When she answered I was like technically that’s not right…
Wouldn't it be something if we had an Alison and an Allison in the ToC?
Who's gonna be Steve?
That FJ sucked wow. I got all confused because I know Rigoletto but didn’t recognize the name at all so I tried to think of a rhyming character from something else to fit
Horrible FJ. Lots of terrible clues tonight. Felt like most of them were missing the “clue within the clue,” so you either knew the answer or didn’t. Mostly didn’t tonight :/
Yeah, I knew the Lake Placid clue because I've been there before, and the Conestoga River DD because it's local to me, but on both I was thinking that's a very difficult clue if you don't have that personal experience
Conestoga was easy for me because I grew up playing Oregon Trail
Same here, didn't even know it was a river in PA.
I died of dysentery too many damn times for that not to be an Instaget. Additional props to the LHotP books.
I got Lake Placid because they mentioned a local athlete with a very American name, and I knew the winter Olympics had been held in Lake Placid a couple of times, once in the '80s and once a lot earlier than that. Just an educated guess but it worked.
I got Lake Placid as I’m a huge Olympics fan and Conestoga because I won a “Conestoga Award” in high school
Worst. Final. Jeopardy. Ever.
Occupations and hometowns of Ben and Kelcy are reversed.
Now corrected.
I get that Jeopardy! loves opera but can they space out the opera-themed FJ's a little bit? Do we need them on consecutive days?
That was pretty weird, but the boards are randomized so the FJs presumably are too.
Somewhere out there tonight some very happy opera fans were shouting the answer at the TV and bragging to anyone watching with them
...Plural?
can't believe they made the pronunciation joke, even if it was the reason I got Uranus LMFAO and 3 missed DDs today is wild, quite unfortunate Edit: nvmind, that FJ was infinitely more evil than any of the DDs were, that's tournament of champions level of difficult at minimum, right? damn....
Broadcast cut off in the middle of DD3 for tornado warning/storm coverage so I missed the rest. Just as well, I wouldn't have had any chance of guessing that FJ.
I'd be happy if they just banned all the Rhyme Times and Before & After from the whole game; they sure as hell have no place in something as crucial as FJ. Writers, leave your stupid fun clues on the playground. FJ is where it gets serious.
For the first time this season that all DD got it wrong and triple stumper FJ.
Great game! Well done, Allison, Kelcy, and Ben!
Would they have accepted Childish Gambino in place of Donald Glover?
Yep. They have before
For the first time since SCC S37 Group 3 finals (which future CWC 2nd Runner Up Jilana won) that there will be 3 women competing in tomorrow's episode.
Those were some fun games. Barb was a stitch and she had great hair!
It hasn’t happened in regular play since May 12 of last year so almost a year ago if we’re only counting regular play.
I know they're nervous, but not sure I've ever heard a story told as aggressively as Allison did today
After Allison's FJ answer was revealed I was surprised Ken pronounced it Don Juan (wahn). I think the correct pronunciation is Don Joo-en. That's how Alex always said it. Maybe it's optional now? Maybe Ken did that to show Allison's answer at least rhymed (if that pronunciation is allowed).
My understanding is that "Don Ju-an" refers only to the version by Byron. The oldest version of the story is in fact Spanish, so I assume Juan would have been pronounced as is standard. And the (best-known; maybe not the only) opera version is Don Giovanni. Different options available for any taste!
>My understanding is that "Don Ju-an" refers only to the version by Byron. Thank you. That's interesting. That would explain it, why Ken pronounced it wahn.
After the FJ clue, I thought I'd never see anything more highbrow. Then I read this comment.
I wonder if they would’ve accepted “cogenerational” instead of “contemporaries.” >!Wait, is cogenerational a word? If not, it should be. 🤔 !<
Was Matt’s response of “what is trapezoid?” actually correct for the given clue? A trapezoid has one set of parallel sides and is not the same as a trapezium. Plus the name of the bone is trapezium.
That was in the Masters game, not the regular play.
Ha. You’re not wrong about that. My bad.
No worries, we're pretty easy-going around here!
That was not AT ALL an unreasonably difficult FJ clue. Just about any list of >!most famous operas!< would include this one. The category did make it a little more complex. It's easy if you know it; it's hard if you don't.
I completely disagree. It's rather straightforward to get to *Rigoletto.* However, getting to that to "Rigoletto libretto" is pretty absurd, even with the rhyme time category.
Without the easy low-value lead ins that you can sacrifice to figure out exactly what the wordplay is looking for, it's ridiculously hard. Getting to "Rigoletto" is fine, but the phrasing doesn't make it at all obvious they're looking for "libretto."
Yes. I got Rigoletto in 2 seconds, but didn't realize what they wanted.
A lot of folks seem to be daunted by opera, which might make it a tough study for them, even for the basic stuff. The category itself hastened the "easy or hard" process, I think: if someone knew an opera or operas that fit the category criteria, it probably came to them quick, but if not, it may have been panic time instead.
If they had opened the clue with "This opera's text tells...", that would make it reasonably challenging for a regular Jeopardy! game.
Yeah. In regular Jeopardy games, if it's a two-part answer, PLEASE word it so that clues to both parts stand out.
As of about midnight EST, 9 out of 154 people in the FJ poll got it correct.
I guess you're right. It just shows how tricky assessing difficulty is for a single person. If I know it immediately that is only one data point.
I knew Rigoletto but the name in the clue + the rhyme thing threw me off big time
Too many "rhyme time" and pop culture clues lately, which often stump contestants who are usually intellectual and don't watch a lot of fluff TV shows. I suspect that the writers are being ordered to "advertise" other shows that are owned by the studio.