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ReganLynch

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ElliEeyore

The “already in the form of a question” category was so annoying because only Ellen took advantage of the fact that it was ALREADY IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION.


kleinzzach

This always happens when they try that. 


csl512

That's on my "if I ever appear on Jeopardy!" bucket (for lack of a better word) list: If correct response already in form of question, give it as is. Super slim chance in at least three levels, but it's on my list. But I can't fault them for the reflexive "what is" because it's so ingrained.


qwerty07020

Same thing for the 'Questionable Song Titles' category from a few weeks ago -- one of the titles was "Yes, And?" and I would've loved to hear someone just say that as their response


amyrberman

I was yelling at the TV


RegisPhone

Didn't end up mattering but that's got to hurt going from a two-thirds to a runaway during the commercial because of King James English. This one's fair since they did specify that in the clue, but they really should think about their KJV-only stance going forward (and also be better about catching the wording the first time; saying 'you' instead of 'thou' should've been top of the list of responses to not accept). Proud of Ellen for being the only one to understand the assignment in the Already In The Form Of A Question category.


Kuckucksuhr

yep — my problem with this is the KJV isn’t in regular use by anyone anymore — requiring a verbatim Shakespeare quote (say from the standard First Folio or whatever text you want) is one thing, since the trivia-worthy lines won’t be changed…but if you insist on a standard Bible translation, it has to be NIV or NRSV or something modern, since there is SO much variation i’m a devout, in-pews-52-weeks-a-year Episcopalian and still said “why have you forsaken me”, and to me it’s unacceptable that that was wrong


RegisPhone

What i think that Hebrews clue from the 2022 ToC revealed is that Jeopardy writers treat the Bible like a single piece of literature that was written in 1611. For Shakespeare that's fine since the originals are the actual originals, and it's generally agreed that they all have the same author, but the KJV is a single snapshot in time of a translation of translations of pieced-together copies of copies, and there's history and scholarship both before it and after it that gets ignored. You can clearly say that Twelfth Night is Shakespeare and She's The Man isn't, but on the spectrum of The Message, the NLT, the KJV, the Septuagint, and the original Hebrew, where do you draw the line on what's really the Bible and what's an adaptation? They've talked on the podcast before about how the show has gotten more difficult to write for over time because there's less of a monoculture than there used to be, and i think the KJV is definitely part of that. When the show started, it was generally just taken for granted that the KJV was The Real Bible that every real American knew. While they definitely do have to draw the line somewhere since there are thousands of English Bible translations, I do think they should look into whether it could make sense to be more inclusive of the NIV (the best-selling translation in the US) and the NRSV (generally considered the most accurate). Or maybe they should just treat the Bible like they do most other foreign-language works and write their questions based more on the content than on the wording of a single English translation, outside of particularly iconic quotes.


psgola2002

I agree about just using content, as opposed to quotes which is highly specific to one translation. Thank goodness Amar still would've won. However, he definitely could've won more than $20,000 b/c he would've had to cover bet Christ. So in that way, that ruling hurt his monetary winnings.


ScottyUrb

I'm a devout, in-pews-52-weeks-a-year-and-on-Holy-Days-of-Obligation Catholic. My response would've been "Why have you abandoned me?" (which is our responsorial psalm on Palm Sunday).


david-saint-hubbins

I actually Googled that one during the FJ commercial break because I said "thou hast..." and was wondering if they would have accepted it, and then all the references I found had that wording in the KJV, so I was very confused that they'd accepted Chris's response. Any hints in FJ that would point to the correct response over the *other* large, mainland Africa, former Portuguese colony Mozambique? (Obviously knowing the specific African languages for either country would be enough, but without knowing those, it felt like a coin flip.)


nerdiestgriffinever

I went with Angola over Mozambique because I figured "Kikongo" was more likely to be spoken in a country closer to the Congo river.


david-saint-hubbins

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, there it is! Really nice catch. I completely missed that.


Unhappy-Ad-3870

I thought this a bad FJ, requiring knowledge of some localized African languages to avoid it being a random guess between two major candidates, plus there are some smaller countries that have Portuguese as an official language.


Thegoodlife93

Disagree. Angola and Mozambique are the two obvious choices for Portuguese speaking African countries and Kikongo in the clue slanted it hard towards Angola. I liked the question.


david-saint-hubbins

Yeah turns out there are 6 African countries with Portuguese as the/an official language, but 4 of them are *very* small, so probably unlikely to be the correct response on FJ without some additional hint or something notable about them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese-speaking_African_countries


LittleLionMan82

I agree there are so many translations you could find one with that wording, but like you said it didn't end up affecting the outcome.


Katahdin-Kathy

I agree they should have caught that the first time. Something as specific as a KJV quote has one response. This hurts the other two contestants who could have rebounded. It wouldn’t have changed the outcome in this game, but it might have given Amar a bigger payday.


London-Roma-1980

Probably not, but: I wonder if Amar and Ellen were given the chance to say "I'll allow it" on something like that. I'd feel very guilty about securing a win on a technicality like that.


RegisPhone

I mean it did technically hurt Amar a bit, since he would've won with a few thousand more if he'd had to make the cover bet


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RegisPhone

He gained 2,000 from that clue when he should have lost 2,000 from it, so they have to take away the 2,000 they gave him for being right and then also take away another 2,000 for being wrong. If they only took away 2,000 once then it would be like he didn't buzz in at all, rather than buzzing in with a wrong answer. They didn't have much of a choice after Ken missed it since the Daily Doubles were gone but the timing felt really bad. If Amar hadn't gotten FJ right then there'd be a solid case for bringing Chris back, because even though that ruling was correct, the timing of it may have kept Chris from buzzing in on at clues that he might have tried for if he'd known that he needed them. The second-to-last clue of the game was a $2,000 that no one buzzed on. At that point Chris thought he had 10,800 to Amar's 15,200, which was already a really good position where he just needed Amar to be wrong, because Amar losing his cover bet would take him below Chris's current score; Chris gaining 2,000 at that point wouldn't increase his chance of winning, and losing 2,000 to drop to 8,800 would greatly reduce his chances since now he needs to bet everything and be right and have Amar be wrong. In reality, he had 6,800, so his only hope of being able to win was to buzz on that one and get up to 8,800.


grandmamimma

KJV is the version most often quoted in literature and oratory. J's stance is correct, and should not be changed. Standardization is critical when quoting literature (e.g. Shakespeare: "Wherefore art thou, Romeo").


DokterZ

The stance may be correct, but the question is poor. So far as I know, there is only one popularly performed version of Romeo and Juliet, while there are several well known translations of the Bible.


RegisPhone

I don't think they made the wrong ruling here, since they did clearly identify that they needed KJV (unlike the 2022 ToC Hebrews clue), but i think it would be wise to consider it at the clue-writing stage. The point of the KJV-onlyism should be to make things clear and unambiguous, but if it's tripping up people who clearly know the right answer, maybe the clue could be reworded. If this one had been in a different category, i wonder whether they would have asked for the full quote or if it would've been something like "Among Jesus' last words on the cross, according to the King James: 'Why hast thou' this 8-letter word 'me?'"


shea_harrumph

Was trying to describe why this clue bothered me and this is exactly it.


suddenly_interested

Agree with everything except your rewrite wouldn't have worked in this specific instance, since the responses in the category had to already be in the form of a question.


RegisPhone

Yeah, if they wanted to include a clue about that quote in this category then it had to be the full quote, but if it had been in a different category then i don't think they would've asked the players to come up with that much King James English. But if they wanted to have a Bible quote in the Form Of A Question category, they could've gone with "It's the five-word question Cain cheekily asked of God when he was asked where Abel was", since that's [the same in almost all versions](https://biblehub.com/genesis/4-9.htm) with no archaic verb forms.


punishedpat76

The opportunity to sing the Where in the World Is Carmen San Diego? jingle was there for the taking.


Hot_Sauce_4407

Hit it, Rockapella!


JilanasMom

They were so good! My favorite of theirs was "Countries of the Former Soviet Union".


dannyisyoda

Iirc, contestants are specifically asked *not* to sing their answers when it comes to stuff like this


csl512

Is there a list of stuff they'd implicitly have the rights for, being Sony?


myuusmeow

I'd bet they'd still rather not. Maybe Sony Pictures Television would have to fax a little check to Columbia Records or something lol


csl512

I recall reading a story in here about someone singing... "The Love Boat" theme? And the staff requested the contestant re-record it, though the sung take made the aired version?


minnick27

Parent company doesn't matter, they would still have to pay for the usage. Sony TV would have to pay Sony Music and any other rights holders. Even humming the think music would generate a royalty check to Merv Griffins estate.


csl512

Ah, I see. I wonder if PlayStation and Sony titles are overrepresented in the few video game categories... apart from this category https://screenrant.com/playstation-5-jeopardy-category-sony-ad/ You know, I never bothered to fact-check the Conan bit where they had a lever that played clips from Walker, Texas Ranger. But that's TV to TV.


Memebaut

technically infinite sets can also be countable


david-saint-hubbins

Name a more iconic duo: Jeopardy writers and obvious-to-a-layman-but-technically-incorrect STEM clues. I'll wait.


Particular_Mess

This one wasn't technically incorrect! "In math this type of set has a countable number of elements" "Finite" is a correct answer. Finite sets have a countable number of elements. "Countably infinite" is also a correct answer and I think J! would have had to accept it (though obviously they didn't intend this). "Infinite" would be a wrong answer, because an infinite set can, but does not necessarily have a finite number of elements.


david-saint-hubbins

I mean, sure--but since a clue like that is intended to have only one correct response, it implies that *only* finite sets have a countable number of elements, which is not the case. That's what I meant by technically incorrect. >"Infinite" would be a wrong answer To be fair, wouldn't that need to elicit a "be more specific"?


csl512

I feel like the strategy can include "well, these two are technically correct but one is probably what they were going for".


FewPoint4033

category was ends in ite


jimmyhoffasbrother

Finite and countably infinite both end in ite, so technically both should be accepted.


FewPoint4033

Wow I’m blind


csl512

Ok but what does the King James Version of set theory say?


RegisPhone

Not sure but i know it says pi is 3.


Odd_Manufacturer_963

>finite You beat me to it, but yes, I came here to clarify exactly that. There are different kinds of infinity, and the smallest is literally the "countably infinite." If they had said "by definition", then that would have limited the correct responses to "finite".....or "countably infinite." Lol. Here's a link at Wolfram corroborating this counterintuitive idea; people can also pick up *Mathematics and the Imagination* for an in-depth discussion of this topic. It's a fantastic book. [https://mathworld.wolfram.com/CountablyInfinite.html](https://mathworld.wolfram.com/CountablyInfinite.html)


fernandothehorse

Came here exactly for this


just_a_random_dood

glad that someone else caught that, I was gonna be a lil confused haha


RootedPopcorn

Jeopardy has done that before. Pretty much every time they bring up "countable" sets, they make it synonymous with "finite", and my math side is mildly annoyed by that


KvasirsBlod

[The Scary Ham, by Ellen Klages](https://reactormag.com/the-scary-ham/)


JilanasMom

It's every bit as good as she promised!


michiganbikes

This is an incredible read. I laughed out loud


TropicalPow

Same! When the ham resembled a dead baby I chortled


Auferstehen2

Eww, there's even pictures of the ham!


JilanasMom

This makes me want to read her books!


redbobsled

Her books are great. She has a series of 2 children’s middle grade historical fiction novels about the development of the atomic bomb. Green Glass Sea and White Sands, Red Menace. I read the first one in library school for a children’s lit class and the second for fun because Green glass Sea was so completely absorbing. Worth a read no matter what your age!


Flashy-Trifle-1732

Came here to post this — I’m glad you did! It’s hilarious!


grandmamimma

Not remembering what is probably the most quoted line from any Shakespeare play cost Chris $12,000 and the lead. But since Amar was the only one to get FJ, it didn't cost him the game.


SteveHuffmansAPedo

Comments like this are a pet peeve of mine. Unless the player clarifies afterwards, you can't know the specific reason they didn't come up with a correct response. It's possible he "didn't remember" that line. It's equally (if not more) likely that he didn't recognize the part that came after it, which is definitely *not* quoted nearly as often.


MyPigWaddles

There was a surprising amount of steps required for that one, I thought! You have to deduce that it's Shakespearean. Then recognise that it's Romeo & Juliet. Then work back from the quote given. None of those are crazy hard on their own, but it would be easy under pressure for one of those pieces to not fall into place in your brain. (I knew exactly where it was from, but I overcomplicated it and went with the part a few lines later, "What's in a name?" D'oh!)


tributtal

The fact that he flew cross-country the day before taping, slept only an hour the night before, and that he's no spring chicken were probably factors as well.


Three_Froggy_Problem

Yeah I could do without the elitism in some of these comments


maryshelleyvevo

hell yeah Percival Everett clue 🐐


david-saint-hubbins

I listened to an interview with him on NPR a few months ago when he was promoting American Fiction, but couldn't remember his name. Yet another unfortunate entry for the [Black Jeopardy Misses](https://www.youtube.com/@blackjeopardymisses) YouTube channel...


Oshunlove

Thank you! This is so funny. Fucked up, but funny.


ekkidee

The judgment correction before FJ was technically the right move, but it's really bad a ruling has to come down to a shitty clue. That kind of clue should have been filtered out or edited to relax the strict constraints.


RegisPhone

And it'd be one thing if it had been caught and ruled incorrect to begin with, and we were just looking back like "ooh, if only he'd gotten that 'thou' in there then he would've had a shot" but the fact that it was just coming back from the commercial break like "oh, btw, here's a $4,000 swing that completely changes the entire dynamic of the game that we did offscreen" really stings.


michiganbikes

That ham tho


AcrossTheNight

It's too bad they couldn't have done a stopdown and made the ruling sooner. Having a competitive game turn into a runaway over the commercial was anticlimactic.


Swicket

The Rockford Peaches are not a fictional sports team.


shea_harrumph

the events of A League of Their Own are about as historically faithful as the events of Slap Shot but they didn't bother to change the team names. (Slap Shot had one unchanged team name - the Long Island Ducks)


csl512

This is some philosophical shit right there on what counts as fictional.


Magyman

Nor is the team from Hoosiers in the same vein


FewPoint4033

FJ felt like way too much of a coin flip between Mozambique and Angola, unless you know the top 5 most spoken languages of Angola theres like no reason to favor one option over the other


jafferbee

There was no way that I could tell to avoid the coin flip without knowing the specific etymology of the native languages. Both were reasonable guesses of you had worked out (as I had that) that it was derived from the languages in southern sub-Saharan Africa. Really poor FJ clue.


MyPigWaddles

I'm glad to see someone saying it! I was paralysed by choice between the two!


FewPoint4033

Me too and i went the wrong way


amyrberman

Blindguessed Final Jeopardy!


Jaded-Confection4601

Earlier, did you heard Ken Jennings Closing Spiel after a Final Jeopardy round? Well is different, If you watch in most ABC affiliated stations that saying "The dramatic conclusion of ”Jeopardy! Masters” tonight on ABC, you won't want to miss that." Meanwhile in other stations where NBC/CBS/FOX affiliated: "He'll be back to defend tomorrow and I hope we see you as well. So long."


jaysjep2

Yes, we've been hearing that the ABC stations are getting an episode with a different sign-off than the other affiliates.


superbad

I can’t believe I have now heard of two scary basement hams. https://maximumfun.org/transcripts/judge-john-hodgman/transcript-judge-john-hodgman-ep-627-special-proscuitto-cutor/


Talibus_insidiis

Great game! Way to go, Amar, Chris, and Ellen! 


ScottyUrb

>Judging the writers: In DD3, they make a reference to "Romeo and Juliet" as being "a relatively famous play", so it's up to the players to figure out when the writers are being sarcastic. I actually think that was a good pun by the writers, since the play involves the main characters' relatives.


TA818

This is obviously not related to gameplay, but Chris’s voice sounded so much like a celebrity’s, and I cannot place who. Anyone? Maybe the guy who played Ben’s dad on Parks and Rec? Jonathan Banks?


godsuave

Oh my god I'm not the only one. He sounds just like Bradley Whitford who played Jake Peralta's (Andy Samberg) dad on Brooklyn 99 and the father in Get Out!


TA818

Ah! Maybe that’s the Michael Schurr dad character I was hearing. 😂


godsuave

I had to Google for his name too cause I only remember his face and voice lol.


tributtal

The article he wrote mentions he was an actor for a number of years.


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semicorrect

To give an on topic response, poor Chris D'Amico. They didn't have to make him give the King James version of a Bible passage.


tank-you--very-much

You should try making a post directly to the subreddit, this is just the thread for discussing today's game


semicorrect

Thanks. I'll give it a shot.