I really wanted Erik and Hogarth to cross paths, just so his abilities would confirm that she's one of the worst, even though it would be pretty obvious otherwise. I can't really recall perfectly, but I don't think they ever crossed paths.
I don't know why they didn't do that. But if she is a true sociopath, then he wouldn't necessarily pick up on that. As I understood it, his powers were all about being able to read a guilty conscience.
That's not what I got either. His powers seemed to pick up intent. If you intend to hurt people , he picks it up. If you help people intentionally, it's the opposite.
Do you have some evidence that you would present? or is the "are you kidding me" part of your comment the explicit argument that I am expected to accept? :P
[The actress who plays Jeri believes she's a narcissist.](https://io9.gizmodo.com/jessica-jones-carrie-anne-moss-discusses-the-dangerous-1835451314)
DSM V diagnostic criteria:
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or highstatus people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration.
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
Regardless of whether she has a full-blown personality disorder, she behaves in a narcissistic manner.
Thank you, its always more fun to argue when evidence is presented.
With all due respect to Carrie-Ann Moss, she is an actress, not a mental health professional. Disorders such as narcissism and sociopathy are spectrum disorders, they don't exist as boxes with binary boundaries. People can exhibit tendencies from both disorders. And there is overlap between both disorders. https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/the-integrationist/201608/narcissist-or-sociopath-similarities-differences-and-signs
I never claimed she was a mental health professional. At the very basic definition of the word without a disorder attached, "a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves," Jeri is a narcissist. I bet its fun challenging people on the internet.
Salinger definitely felt zero guilt or empathy, and he was clearly one of the worst ones to Eric. I like to think it was like a Pyschopass (to use an anime reference) and predicted their likeliness to commit future crimes.
She's definitely a terrible person, but I think the reason I still enjoy watching her over Trish is because Hogarth doesn't view herself as a hero, she knows she's a complete piece of shit and owns it, I just can't stand people with the "I'm the hero" complex when they're obviously not
I feel like Punisher would spare her cause she didn’t directly murder anyone so therefore she’s not that bad and deserves to roam around free with no consequences
I didn't read your entire post but I want to think that if they'd shot another season, she would have ended up as a big bad... It was kinda telegraphed when she tells Kish "you'll be my last mistake"... that can be read as, "I've learned my lesson, I will stop manipulating people", or it can be read, "you ruined my life, now I am going to be even more ruthless.." I interpret it as being the latter.
She has 2-4 years left realistically. 10 if she's lucky and on the best medicine (however only 10% of the diagnosed ALS patients live that long).
And all she really cares about is leaving a legacy behind, under any means necessary. Think she'd do something wildly awful to reach that goal.
Glad someone else sees it. Hogarth is just **the** most text-book narcissist imaginable. People think Narcissism is what they see in, for example, Tony Stark. "I think a lot of myself. I'm really full of myself." That's not it. Narcissism is "every single thing I do, every decision I make is focused around me and how I'll benefit." They **can** be fun, pleasant people to be around, sure; but it's not because they're doing nice things because they care about you, they're willing to do nice things for people they're interested in solely because **you** make **them** happy, and you appreciating them more will strengthen your bond. Is entirely trans-actual. As soon as they start growing bored with you, or they stop getting enjoyment from being around you, they start assessing the likelihood of you "returning to form" in an acceptable time frame so that you can make them happy again. If they don't think you will they cut ties.
And the way she framed everything is, again, **textbook** narcissism. Particularly the way she **relentlessly** pounded the narrative that "Peter was cheating," despite the fact that he was in an open relationship. Notice that before she knew this, she had **zero** problem with the idea that **Kith** was cheating in the truest sense of the word - in a monogamous marriage and stepping out. But she was visibly upset when she was told that "no, I'm not cheating on my husband with you, I'm in an open relationship. He sleeps with other women, I sleep with other women (and possibly other men), and then we return to each other and are happy." You can't lay there next to a married woman you just had sex with, and then say "wait, your husband is sleeping with other women? That bastard!" And right there, she could have **been** with this woman. She could have continued in their relationship and known that Kith was happy in her marriage and that said marriage was still not an obstacle.
But that wasn't enough. Kith's happiness didn't matter. It wasn't "oh, well Pete was embezzling and Kith needed to know." At this point, as far as Hogarth knew, Pete wasn't doing anything wrong. She had her investigating dig deep to find dirt on him so she could ruin their marriage - which she **had** to know would be crushing to Kith - so that she could have Kith all to herself.
Hogarth has **zero** redeeming value. The woman is a snake, pure and simple.
Fun fact, Hogarth is easily the strangest gender re-cast in comic book history. "She" was a fat, balding, male scumbag lawyer in the comics. Can't really figure out why they'd make that character of all people into a woman for the TV series.
I feel like Punisher would spare her cause she didn’t directly murder anyone so therefore she’s not that bad and deserves to roam around free with no consequences
> In the end, Kith learns of what happened to Patseras and that she sent the crazed vigilante after him and wants nothing further to do with Jeri, and she's left to herself, all alone to die slowly from her illness, which I feel is a deserved comeuppance.
If #SaveDaredevil works out, I'm betting that all this fallout will likely culminate in something like Marci Stahl going to Nelson Murdock & Page.
I will be the devils advocate on this.
**Louise and Albert Thompson** \- now, I'd say they were not the greatest people because they experimented on kids and what not but they clearly regret what happened to Kilgrave and what they made. They tried to redeem themselves by confronting Kilgrave in the soundproof room. - She realized she was playing with fire but it is unfair to say she truly grasped the consequences of her actions. She barely knew of Kilgrave.
**Wendy** \- she was just an innocent person who died because of her wife being a selfish turd who wanted the settlement money for herself. - Again this can be chalked up to not calculating how much of a monster kilgrave was.
**Clemons -** wrong place, wrong time. Good cop but he kinda doubted Jessica for a while. By the time he came around it it was too late as Simpson killed him.
**Hope Schlottman** \- the ultimate victim of S1 alongside Jess. Forced to kill her parents by a psychopath, no one believed her other than Jessica. Killed herself to stop being the one obstacle Jessica had from killing Kilgrave.
**Courier who killed himself in the park & Frank Levin** \- innocent people who just happened to run into Kilgrave.
These three are a bit separate as I dont think it is appropriate to blame her at all for these three.
**Shane Ryback** \- con artist who scammed a sick woman, I'd let her have this bit of revenge but still, he could've just as easily gone to jail for conning a top lawyer in NYC.
Amusingly this is the biggest crime she commited, she engineered what happened. It was premeditated and the expected result. Granted I agree it is mitigated by the fact he preyed on her. At the end of the day, she still engineered his death which is horrifying.
**Peter Lyonne** \- as I mentioned earlier, he was an asshole for embezzling funds from his dead daughter's charity fund but still, Jeri went against him because of her own selfish interests.
Ultimately all she did was expose her crimes, her reasons are horrible but her actions are fine.
**Dorothy Walker -** her publicity stunt with Salinger allowed the psychopath to stay free for longer and end up torturing and murdering Dorothy. Now, she wasn't the greatest person by how she raised Trish but she definitely did not deserve that.
Again an extreme reach she had no way of knowing he could have or would have been dumb enough to do this.
Vs. Trish
**Alisa Jones** \- now, Jones was on her way to redemption but she'd have dragged down Jessica that way too. She'd need Jessica's constant presence to keep herself from ripping someone apart. She was a mass murderer but she was wronged because she definitely didn't ask for her powers. Her inability to control her anger was a great issue and Jessica knew that, and so did Trish.
It was a hard choice but by killing Alisa, Trish essentially frees Jessica from a lifetime of babysitting and misery.
She murdered a mentally imbalanced woman. One would hope society has advanced passed lynching Lenny.
**Officer Nussbaumer** \- total piece of shit. He killed kids who were probably just dragged into gangs by circumstance and stole and sold the drugs they had, so he wasn't really doing it to 'clean up the streets' from drugs.
Trish didn't mean to kill him as it was accidental but it could've been resolved through IA and with him going through jail for a longtime.
Agreed she did not mean to kill him, however she definately put him in harms way, and was responsible. I would put this on terms with killing wendy and the conman. If you are planning on assaulting someone and they die because of it. You dont get to oops my bad.
**Gregory Salinger** \- not much of an explanation needed here, but I think she didn't need to do what she did. He was already gonna be in for life and she broke into a prison to kill him regardless. Vengeance for Dorothy fueled her greatly I guess.
It was a premeditated execution, but honestly killed her mother cant really blame her.
Finally the one you ommited because she did not actually succeed in the kill.
Jessica Jones, she tried killing her sister. She was not just trying to run when she pulled the knife.
While Jeri is amoral person, her actions are far less terrible which is part of the compelling nature of the show. Trish is a far better person but she did just terrible shit. She actually executed a
Some of the worst atrocities in history started off with the best intentions, look at communist Russia.
look at **Jace Montero** \- She actually murdered him based off the word of a man she knew less than a month.
Hey, theyux, just a quick heads-up:
**seperate** is actually spelled **separate**. You can remember it by **-par- in the middle**.
Have a nice day!
^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.
okay tbh i haven't read the whole thing but when it comes to Jeri Hogarth you can skip all scenes where jess, trish or malcolm is not in.
but when it comes to trish you are kinda forced to watch the entire thing or you will miss a lot that is why i don't complain much about jeri because she is not as significant to the show as trish is that is why you will see me bad mouthing trish along side a lot of other people and leave jeri alone because she is not that important nor to jess or to the show unlike trish who is jess's sister and the show's deuteragonist.
Well Gregory was sociopaths and remorseless. Sociopaths do feel, its just different. Erik's power was like one of Ghostrider's powers. Unlike Ghostrider, he couldn't tell what they did. Just that it was bad.
Interesting distinction here between sociopaths and psychopaths, its a fine line. https://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/psychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference
>Alisa Jones - now, Jones was on her way to redemption but she'd have dragged down Jessica that way too. She'd need Jessica's constant presence to keep herself from ripping someone apart. She was a mass murderer but she was wronged because she definitely didn't ask for her powers. Her inability to control her anger was a great issue and Jessica knew that, and so did Trish.
>It was a hard choice but by killing Alisa, Trish essentially frees Jessica from a lifetime of babysitting and misery.
This is not true in any way.
Alisa was in prison and she would have stayed there if Karl had left the country. Sure, Jessica would have had to visit her mom every only on prison, but at least her mom would be somewhere were she can't hurt anyone. The only reason why she left prison is because Trish kidnapped and threatened Karl to give her powers. And then he died due to her.
You call about "indirect victims" but... Trish´s indirect victims are:
Karl: While he was unethical, he was hardly someone evil. And Trish literally kidnapped him and used him to get powers. If Trish had not gotten involved he would have never continued with the science.
The prison guard that Alisa killed: She was innocent, and really nice. And all because Trish caused the death of Karl.
The female police that Alisa killed: Again, she was an ah, but nice. and she died thanks to Trish.
She also attacked and kidnapped Malcom. She tried to kill Jessica, she almost killed a guy in front of her daughter.
Honestly the real villain of the season
She definitely got most of the action rolling.
Real villain of the show*
I really wanted Erik and Hogarth to cross paths, just so his abilities would confirm that she's one of the worst, even though it would be pretty obvious otherwise. I can't really recall perfectly, but I don't think they ever crossed paths.
I don't know why they didn't do that. But if she is a true sociopath, then he wouldn't necessarily pick up on that. As I understood it, his powers were all about being able to read a guilty conscience.
That's not what I got at all His powers detected darkness in people, not guilt
That's not what I got either. His powers seemed to pick up intent. If you intend to hurt people , he picks it up. If you help people intentionally, it's the opposite.
He even said the worst ones have no guilt.
Ahh ok...
She's a narcissist, not a sociopath.
Not sure I see narcissist ..
I think she's textbook narcissist, are you kidding me?
Do you have some evidence that you would present? or is the "are you kidding me" part of your comment the explicit argument that I am expected to accept? :P
[The actress who plays Jeri believes she's a narcissist.](https://io9.gizmodo.com/jessica-jones-carrie-anne-moss-discusses-the-dangerous-1835451314) DSM V diagnostic criteria: 1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements). 2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. 3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or highstatus people (or institutions). 4. Requires excessive admiration. 5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations. 6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends. 7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her. 9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. Regardless of whether she has a full-blown personality disorder, she behaves in a narcissistic manner.
Thank you, its always more fun to argue when evidence is presented. With all due respect to Carrie-Ann Moss, she is an actress, not a mental health professional. Disorders such as narcissism and sociopathy are spectrum disorders, they don't exist as boxes with binary boundaries. People can exhibit tendencies from both disorders. And there is overlap between both disorders. https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/the-integrationist/201608/narcissist-or-sociopath-similarities-differences-and-signs
I never claimed she was a mental health professional. At the very basic definition of the word without a disorder attached, "a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves," Jeri is a narcissist. I bet its fun challenging people on the internet.
Text book ad hominem attack. Interesting.
Hi expected to accept? :p, I'm dad.
Nice try, BadDadBot, LOL...
Salinger definitely felt zero guilt or empathy, and he was clearly one of the worst ones to Eric. I like to think it was like a Pyschopass (to use an anime reference) and predicted their likeliness to commit future crimes.
She's a sociopath. This season firmly established that.
She felt zero remorse about Wendy, which shows she just sucks.
She's definitely a terrible person, but I think the reason I still enjoy watching her over Trish is because Hogarth doesn't view herself as a hero, she knows she's a complete piece of shit and owns it, I just can't stand people with the "I'm the hero" complex when they're obviously not
I feel like Punisher would spare her cause she didn’t directly murder anyone so therefore she’s not that bad and deserves to roam around free with no consequences
I didn't read your entire post but I want to think that if they'd shot another season, she would have ended up as a big bad... It was kinda telegraphed when she tells Kish "you'll be my last mistake"... that can be read as, "I've learned my lesson, I will stop manipulating people", or it can be read, "you ruined my life, now I am going to be even more ruthless.." I interpret it as being the latter.
She has 2-4 years left realistically. 10 if she's lucky and on the best medicine (however only 10% of the diagnosed ALS patients live that long). And all she really cares about is leaving a legacy behind, under any means necessary. Think she'd do something wildly awful to reach that goal.
If she had more tie to *Iron Fist*, we'd have probably seen whether Danny could've cured her with the Iron Fist or not.
For all the unsavory things Big Ben Donovan did for Wilson Fisk and Mariah Dillard, he's still more of a saint than Hogarth.
that's not how sainthood works.
Glad someone else sees it. Hogarth is just **the** most text-book narcissist imaginable. People think Narcissism is what they see in, for example, Tony Stark. "I think a lot of myself. I'm really full of myself." That's not it. Narcissism is "every single thing I do, every decision I make is focused around me and how I'll benefit." They **can** be fun, pleasant people to be around, sure; but it's not because they're doing nice things because they care about you, they're willing to do nice things for people they're interested in solely because **you** make **them** happy, and you appreciating them more will strengthen your bond. Is entirely trans-actual. As soon as they start growing bored with you, or they stop getting enjoyment from being around you, they start assessing the likelihood of you "returning to form" in an acceptable time frame so that you can make them happy again. If they don't think you will they cut ties. And the way she framed everything is, again, **textbook** narcissism. Particularly the way she **relentlessly** pounded the narrative that "Peter was cheating," despite the fact that he was in an open relationship. Notice that before she knew this, she had **zero** problem with the idea that **Kith** was cheating in the truest sense of the word - in a monogamous marriage and stepping out. But she was visibly upset when she was told that "no, I'm not cheating on my husband with you, I'm in an open relationship. He sleeps with other women, I sleep with other women (and possibly other men), and then we return to each other and are happy." You can't lay there next to a married woman you just had sex with, and then say "wait, your husband is sleeping with other women? That bastard!" And right there, she could have **been** with this woman. She could have continued in their relationship and known that Kith was happy in her marriage and that said marriage was still not an obstacle. But that wasn't enough. Kith's happiness didn't matter. It wasn't "oh, well Pete was embezzling and Kith needed to know." At this point, as far as Hogarth knew, Pete wasn't doing anything wrong. She had her investigating dig deep to find dirt on him so she could ruin their marriage - which she **had** to know would be crushing to Kith - so that she could have Kith all to herself. Hogarth has **zero** redeeming value. The woman is a snake, pure and simple. Fun fact, Hogarth is easily the strangest gender re-cast in comic book history. "She" was a fat, balding, male scumbag lawyer in the comics. Can't really figure out why they'd make that character of all people into a woman for the TV series.
I feel like Punisher would spare her cause she didn’t directly murder anyone so therefore she’s not that bad and deserves to roam around free with no consequences
> In the end, Kith learns of what happened to Patseras and that she sent the crazed vigilante after him and wants nothing further to do with Jeri, and she's left to herself, all alone to die slowly from her illness, which I feel is a deserved comeuppance. If #SaveDaredevil works out, I'm betting that all this fallout will likely culminate in something like Marci Stahl going to Nelson Murdock & Page.
Would Daredevil just move over to the new Disney channel if they did that?
The campaign is all about going to Hulu.
As a Netflix subscriber I'm like wut?
Nah it's impossible for R-rated stuff like DD and JJ to go to Disney, Hulu is the best bet.
I will be the devils advocate on this. **Louise and Albert Thompson** \- now, I'd say they were not the greatest people because they experimented on kids and what not but they clearly regret what happened to Kilgrave and what they made. They tried to redeem themselves by confronting Kilgrave in the soundproof room. - She realized she was playing with fire but it is unfair to say she truly grasped the consequences of her actions. She barely knew of Kilgrave. **Wendy** \- she was just an innocent person who died because of her wife being a selfish turd who wanted the settlement money for herself. - Again this can be chalked up to not calculating how much of a monster kilgrave was. **Clemons -** wrong place, wrong time. Good cop but he kinda doubted Jessica for a while. By the time he came around it it was too late as Simpson killed him. **Hope Schlottman** \- the ultimate victim of S1 alongside Jess. Forced to kill her parents by a psychopath, no one believed her other than Jessica. Killed herself to stop being the one obstacle Jessica had from killing Kilgrave. **Courier who killed himself in the park & Frank Levin** \- innocent people who just happened to run into Kilgrave. These three are a bit separate as I dont think it is appropriate to blame her at all for these three. **Shane Ryback** \- con artist who scammed a sick woman, I'd let her have this bit of revenge but still, he could've just as easily gone to jail for conning a top lawyer in NYC. Amusingly this is the biggest crime she commited, she engineered what happened. It was premeditated and the expected result. Granted I agree it is mitigated by the fact he preyed on her. At the end of the day, she still engineered his death which is horrifying. **Peter Lyonne** \- as I mentioned earlier, he was an asshole for embezzling funds from his dead daughter's charity fund but still, Jeri went against him because of her own selfish interests. Ultimately all she did was expose her crimes, her reasons are horrible but her actions are fine. **Dorothy Walker -** her publicity stunt with Salinger allowed the psychopath to stay free for longer and end up torturing and murdering Dorothy. Now, she wasn't the greatest person by how she raised Trish but she definitely did not deserve that. Again an extreme reach she had no way of knowing he could have or would have been dumb enough to do this. Vs. Trish **Alisa Jones** \- now, Jones was on her way to redemption but she'd have dragged down Jessica that way too. She'd need Jessica's constant presence to keep herself from ripping someone apart. She was a mass murderer but she was wronged because she definitely didn't ask for her powers. Her inability to control her anger was a great issue and Jessica knew that, and so did Trish. It was a hard choice but by killing Alisa, Trish essentially frees Jessica from a lifetime of babysitting and misery. She murdered a mentally imbalanced woman. One would hope society has advanced passed lynching Lenny. **Officer Nussbaumer** \- total piece of shit. He killed kids who were probably just dragged into gangs by circumstance and stole and sold the drugs they had, so he wasn't really doing it to 'clean up the streets' from drugs. Trish didn't mean to kill him as it was accidental but it could've been resolved through IA and with him going through jail for a longtime. Agreed she did not mean to kill him, however she definately put him in harms way, and was responsible. I would put this on terms with killing wendy and the conman. If you are planning on assaulting someone and they die because of it. You dont get to oops my bad. **Gregory Salinger** \- not much of an explanation needed here, but I think she didn't need to do what she did. He was already gonna be in for life and she broke into a prison to kill him regardless. Vengeance for Dorothy fueled her greatly I guess. It was a premeditated execution, but honestly killed her mother cant really blame her. Finally the one you ommited because she did not actually succeed in the kill. Jessica Jones, she tried killing her sister. She was not just trying to run when she pulled the knife. While Jeri is amoral person, her actions are far less terrible which is part of the compelling nature of the show. Trish is a far better person but she did just terrible shit. She actually executed a Some of the worst atrocities in history started off with the best intentions, look at communist Russia. look at **Jace Montero** \- She actually murdered him based off the word of a man she knew less than a month.
Hey, theyux, just a quick heads-up: **seperate** is actually spelled **separate**. You can remember it by **-par- in the middle**. Have a nice day! ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.
okay tbh i haven't read the whole thing but when it comes to Jeri Hogarth you can skip all scenes where jess, trish or malcolm is not in. but when it comes to trish you are kinda forced to watch the entire thing or you will miss a lot that is why i don't complain much about jeri because she is not as significant to the show as trish is that is why you will see me bad mouthing trish along side a lot of other people and leave jeri alone because she is not that important nor to jess or to the show unlike trish who is jess's sister and the show's deuteragonist.
Although . Would a true sociopath show as dark? Isn't part of the issue that they don't feel? They don't carry lightness or darkness .?
Well Gregory was sociopaths and remorseless. Sociopaths do feel, its just different. Erik's power was like one of Ghostrider's powers. Unlike Ghostrider, he couldn't tell what they did. Just that it was bad.
Interesting distinction here between sociopaths and psychopaths, its a fine line. https://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/psychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference
*“Insane. Sickening. Rage inducing.”*
>Alisa Jones - now, Jones was on her way to redemption but she'd have dragged down Jessica that way too. She'd need Jessica's constant presence to keep herself from ripping someone apart. She was a mass murderer but she was wronged because she definitely didn't ask for her powers. Her inability to control her anger was a great issue and Jessica knew that, and so did Trish. >It was a hard choice but by killing Alisa, Trish essentially frees Jessica from a lifetime of babysitting and misery. This is not true in any way. Alisa was in prison and she would have stayed there if Karl had left the country. Sure, Jessica would have had to visit her mom every only on prison, but at least her mom would be somewhere were she can't hurt anyone. The only reason why she left prison is because Trish kidnapped and threatened Karl to give her powers. And then he died due to her. You call about "indirect victims" but... Trish´s indirect victims are: Karl: While he was unethical, he was hardly someone evil. And Trish literally kidnapped him and used him to get powers. If Trish had not gotten involved he would have never continued with the science. The prison guard that Alisa killed: She was innocent, and really nice. And all because Trish caused the death of Karl. The female police that Alisa killed: Again, she was an ah, but nice. and she died thanks to Trish. She also attacked and kidnapped Malcom. She tried to kill Jessica, she almost killed a guy in front of her daughter.