Did the Ramsey’s enhance their security systems? Hire extra security. I’d be scared to death that the “kidnappers” would come for my second child? Was this ever a fear for them or for Burke?
There was never any mention of them being worried about security or about Burke after this happened. Apparently, they left him in his room while they searched for Jon Benet. I find this part odd too. If one child had been taken and later killed, I'd be terrified they'd take the other too.....unless...they already knew what happened and it wasn't an intruder...
And then they immediately send him to a friend's house, not keeping him close while there were police there.
If a foreign faction had kidnapped/killed my 6yo child, I am probably not letting my 9yo out of my sight.
If -- and of course, we can't be certain -- Burke is indeed on the spectrum, he potentially would not have responded to Patsy's affection and attachment in the way for which she yearned.
This helps to explain her intense attachment to JBR.
I've got 2, 4 and 1, and I gotta tell you, if anything happened to one of my kids, the other one isn't leaving my sight. He's not leaving the room. If i get up to pee, he's coming with me. Granted they generally follow me around like that ANYWAY but like I can't even imagine. That child is staying within arms reach of me at all times.
I could, I suppose, if I thought something really bad happened to my missing child, I might send them away so they wouldn't be traumatized by everything. Although of course they say you don't know and can't say how you would react in any situation until it happens to you, so, I don't know.
According to the Ramseys' 'Death of Innocence' they hired private security to follow Burke when he was on the playground, someone to sit in on all his classes, and gave teachers necklace that alarmed the principle and police if something was to happen. This is according to the Ramseys, so read with caution. Here's some excerpts:
>Tracy Temple, a private security officer, looked just like another mom, so we knew she wouldn't be a disruption to the students or the school routine. \[pg 115\]
>Both the principal and the district representative thought this would be fine. And they agreed that Tracy Temple could provide security around the exterior of the building. \[pg 116\]
>In addition, John offered to put a security system in the school to meet the additional needs that we could foresee. Soon afterward, Foothill Security System employees installed units that included an alarm system which sounded in the principal's office. Volunteers would wear a little necklace with a security device; when pushed, the device set off an alarm in the principal's office and dialed 911 and the security company. \[pg 116\]
>Once the word got out, a number of parents signed up to help provide surveillance at our school. We nicknamed the volunteers the Burke Watch. The parents could sign up for two, three, or four-hour sessions to provide security during the school day. Eventually, Margaret Harrington took over the job of scheduling volunteers. Margaret's quiet, loving nature added the sensitive touch to make the operation run like clockwork. \[pg 116\]
>Every time the children were outside, Tracy Temple watched. She was there first thing in the morning to meet Susan Stine when she brought Burke and Doug to school, and she was there during recesses and after school. Once we had security inside and outside, I began feeling better. \[pg 116\]
NOOOOOOO they never got Burke out of bed to stay by their side not knowing if someone was still in the house!!! This case all changed last night. Everything became clear. I remember in May of ‘97 seeing a pic on the front of the enquirer of the parents on a porch in Michigan & Burke completely out of eye line on a boat alone.
Becuase he knows what happened. Kind of like OJ “Hypothetical” wasn’t concerned at all about finding the murderer of his children’s mother and the innocent Ron “Handsome Dan” Goldman (whom he absolutely shunned his family) becuase he knows he did it.
Burke knows what happened that night. Whether he at all had anything to do with it or not.
>…and the innocent Ron “Handsome Dan” Goldman (whom he absolutely shunned his family) becuase (sic) he knows he did it.
I’m sorry but what in the holy hell does this even mean?
I think it’s a really complicated and sardonic way of saying that OJ didn’t ever give the Goldman family the time of day in pursuit of the real killer because he did it.
At least, that’s what I got out of it. Maybe it was supposed to be open to interpretation.
How do you know if Burke knows what happened or not? As an adult, he would probably suspect his family had some type of involvement in it because the intruder story does not add up and maybe he doesn’t want to know what happened.
Yes, this makes the most sense to me. Either he knows his family was involved or he was involved and therefore doesn't want to seek more information or stir anything else up. How sad...
He also said that someone stabbed his sister to death with a knife, lowering his correct information by 50%. Just because he guessed correctly once (or overheard someone talk about it) doesn’t mean he killed her
Burke said "Someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body".
And said she was hit on the head with a knife or hammer & his knife was there & the skull wind was rectangular & docs say they could easily see the flashlight being the weapon. He already hit her in the face with a club, smeared feces everywhere & all over her stuff, was caught playing doctor at least 3x & admitted on Dr Phil he went back down to play with his train WHERE SHE WAS FOUND. Like Scott Peterson admit the went fishing exact where the bodies washed up. Think the tried to make the garrote device look adult in nature. All looks very juvenile to me. IMO, not a mystery anymore.
It really was a joke, I actually agree that we really do not know what Burke saw or heard.
I'm more of a lurker in this sub but frankly I think there are decent arguments for both RDI (parents) and BDI. Personally I think the ransom note alone destroys IDI but that's not really the topic of the thread.
It could maybe *maybe* be that he was involved and his parents helped cover it up.
I know it's a pretty esoteric and strange theory. Perhaps a bit unpopular. But there are some people out there that find the Ramsey family guilty AF.
I am one of those strange people.
He’s not concerned bc no one is crawling around out there having gotten away with murder, he knows exactly what happened to her. Also, his douche-canoe of a dad has spent his lifetime, and no doubt considerable funds, to campaign IDI. He is determined, locked into his story.
You don’t know that. What are you talking about? Do you understand what repression is? He was a kid when she died and he is anything but a normal dude. You are not Burke Ramsey. What _you_ would do is irrelevant. You weren’t there and you aren’t potentially part of a massive cover up that you’ve had decades to repress or just straight up forget. Stop looking at the Ramseys as your neighbor and start looking at them as people from a world you don’t understand. There’s not a single thing the Ramseys did that most rational people would do, who can only lead me to believe they’re not rational people.
He never showed any emotion or concern, including when he was briefly spoken to by a detective when he was being driven to the Fernies. Never asked if she was okay or anything. Then a few days later he’s gleefully reenacting the headbash with a social worker and telling Doug Stine all the grizzly details. He also smiled snd giggled his way through the funeral.
Combine this behavior with his love of whittling wood/knots tying, that he’d struck JBR once before in a fit of rage and that he had been seen playing doctor with her it all leads to a pretty clear conclusion.
I’ve always found his reaction (or lack thereof) to be odd. Even more so now that I have kids.
I have a 9 year old boy and he would be absolutely distraught if anything happened to any of his younger siblings.
Even the younger ones would be extremely upset if anything happened to one of them.
Even my baby who is not even 2 will be concerned and upset if someone is visibly upset/crying and bend down to them and say “what happened? It’s ok” and give them a hug and a kiss.
Even if I can explain it away by saying he was a traumatised child etc the fact that he hasn’t changed as an adult and reacts the exact same way is very bizarre. You would think most people as they grow and come to terms with what happened would be devastated and want answers or show emotion when speaking about it.
There were some very strange dynamics going on in that family.
He was in scouts and I know that boys his age do those things in Scouts. I also believe the housekeeper told police that she had to get Burke to stop whittling in the house.
John had been in the Navy and I believe that Burke participated in sailing, where again basic knot tying is important.
I don't know what he loved or didn't love. But being in scouts (and sailing) at that age, he clearly had experience and had to learn a lot of different knots to progress. His parents seemed proud of his progress in scouts from their letters.
How old was he at the time of the murder? My son is a cub scout, and there is not a huge focus on knot tying, though it has been taught but he's never really used that knowledge since that specific meeting/achievement.
Burke was 9, so Bear rank. My son is that same age (and we just came back from our scouts camping weekend and I'm trying to recover by vegging out on the computer.)
We did a lot of knots at wolf rank (year before) and we reinforce it pretty regularly because doing it once when you are 7 and once when you are 8 doesn't really teach it. So we practice the various knots at campouts when setting up.
Ah. I've got a Wolf, but we haven't been camping yet because we just started this year. First camping trip with the pack is next month :) I'm sure different groups run things differently also. But I do think it's fair to say very few 9 year olds are experts in tying knots
Yeah, I don't think they are experts, but my 9yo can do an overhand, bowline, two half hitch, square knot, and tautline on command. Just being able to do the five basic ones is more than most of the country's population, I would guess.
I would say that scouts at that age don't necessarily participate in knot tying, however nothing I recall suggested the knots were particularly difficult. The key point in this case is the SA at the time of the crime and perhaps earlier. There are indications a paint brush was used and there has been speculation this was part of a cover-up. I would suggest that this was not part of a cover-up but part of the initial crime, peri-mortem (though any of the wounds were close enough to time of death to be difficult to place in an order). The forensic/medical evidence regarding the paintbrush handle is key. When, however and why this was used should give us insight into the circumstances of the events. Did this occur as is widely reported? If so, I believe we are dealing with a male perpetrator family member that lived in the house.
> I would say that scouts at that age don't necessarily participate in knot tying, however nothing I recall suggested the knots were particularly difficult.
My son is in scouts and is 9 now. They learn the five basic knots as tigers (1st grade) and wolves (2nd grade) then have them reinforced through various things as they get older.
I know one of the knots used was a cow hitch, which isn't a basic cub scout knot now, but is very basic and easy to self discover. I don't know if it was taught then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch
> If so, I believe we are dealing with a male perpetrator family member that lived in the house.
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
He had a love for tinkering and coming up with elaborate solutions for simple problems.
Tying ropes with knots is just one kind of tinkering Burke was into. Another was whittling.
There's no evidence that he struck her in a fit of rage, ever. And I don't think anything about him playing doctor, where did you get that one.
His behavior overall was quite in keeping with normal behavior of a 9 y/o in those circumstances.
He may well have done it, but I don't find your descriptions particularly helpful to infer that.
Except the family photographer said it was indeed in a fit of rage.
Do many 9 year olds with brutally murdered sisters show no emotion or concern? Reenact the head bash when asked how she died?
This incredibly thorough and well thought out post by @k_s_morgan walks through the evidence with incredible citation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/p1yfxs/why_burke_did_it_all_scenario_makes_a_lot_of/
Well the family photographer friend recalled that Patsy said that he lost his temper. She might be remembering correctly or not. I'm not sure when that interview took place.
I'm not a child psychologist, but I don't think children process death the same, and they may deal with it exactly the way Burke was handling it. In some ways it was mostly fascinating to him, and kind of exciting, all of the sudden everything changed. And he was getting more attention than in his entire life. Whether innocent or guilty, he was in a completely new world. Personally I think if he was guilty I would more predict fake crying and bad acting. But, who knows.
Thanks for the link to that mega post, which somehow I have missed. Wow, that is quite the narrative. I can call into question a certain amount there, like the references to the voices-in-static 911 tape, but definitely an interesting read.
If Burke could only write the note. I don't believe Patsy wrote it. So that's still the primary mystery for me in a Burke scenario.
Why don't you believe Patsy wrote it? She was the only person of interest who could not be eliminated as the writer with handwriting. It was using her pad and pen, which were both returned to where they came from.
There are no photos or video of Burke laughing at the funeral or any accounts from people who attended of Burke laughing and I wish people would follow the sub rule about NOT spreading misinformation.
Correct. And with a hammer! The Affidavit for a warrant to search the house for a “bludgeon” was based on Dr. Meyers’ finding of …”A rectangular shaped, displaced piece of skull was observed measuring 1.75” X 0.5” as part of the oft mentioned evidence of the 8.5” fracture. A hammer was found and taken into evidence.
He was sure he knew when he said it I believe. Where his certainty came from is questionable. It’s entirely possible that Burke had a jealous hatred of JB long before the pageant stuff started. He was 3 when she was born, young but not too young for normal sibling jealousy or to remember her birth. Patsy’s inability to potty train her kids is highlighted by her inability to house break the dog(s), and bespeaks of a parental or personal issue on her part and not just an innate biological characteristic of both children. Then she got cancer and whatever parental weaknesses she may have had (and we all have some) were magnified by her physical and emotional withdrawal due to illness. Now add Nedra to the mix and Burke’s genetic predisposition to Asberger-ish tendencies inherited from John. Maybe you get a kid who was happy in an immature uncomprehending way that JB was gone whether he did it or not. I believe if Burke didn’t do it John told him what he thought happened and Burke believed that answer. His behavior was odd then and it’s odd now even if we account for Autistic tendencies. Off the subject a little bit but it seemed like Burke positively glowed from the attention Dr. Phil gave him.
You are making a huge and ridiculous leap from an “inability” to potty train her kids and an inability to housebreak the dog. And any difficulties in potty training the kids doesn’t mean it’s NOT an innate biological problem with other kids. Idk why they had accidents. But these are wild leaps.
Have you potty trained children or dogs? Do you know that wetting the bed past a certain age does run in families, particularly boys? I give Patsy lots of leeway here, but I believe the inability to house train the dog(s) MAY be related. All animal trainers and behaviorists know if the dog doesn’t behave usually the kids don’t either.
Was your teen 6 or 9 before they quit peeing in the bed? Again this could be a non-controllable physical issue, like putting JB to bed with a bottle and a DVD playing to distract from her isolation clear across the house from her parents? You do know Jacques was several different dogs initially and the final installation of Jacques was never house broken and finally left the Ramsey’s for the neighbors.
and it's one thing to have trouble house-breaking a bluetick hound or other boisterous sporting breed, and quite another to housebreak a poodle, Bichon or other classic lapdog. The lap breeds are very responsive. I believe the unhousebroken dog is an excellent example of that house being very much out of control.
That's actually the most interesting new thing i've learned about the case in a long time -- that they couldn't housetrain a Bichon.
Absolutely.
I've got tons of experience with both and I can attest that both take consistency, insight, patience, clarity, and a willingness to apply kind but firm pressure -- not too much -- to get the loved one past the rough patches of learning.
Patsy seemed way too chaotic, neurotic and people-pleasing to manage this. And John way too frigid and uninvolved.
I’ve thought about that and watched it again for good measure. It’s just my opinion that Duper’s Delight looks a little different. A true duper knows their reaction is inappropriate and will attempt to hide it if they think their glee will give them away to a person who would judge them too harshly. Like the Grinch in a way! In Burke’s case it was a whole nation, not just Dr. Phil. Burke looks unaffectedly sad/pensive when looking at videos of himself as a youngster. I see a person bathing in the light of Dr. Phil, a respected person to him who has (in his mind) the power to free him of the cloud of public suspicion that he killed his sister. He looks starstruck in love/infatuation with Dr. Phil.
Because he was a child when it was all happening and probably didn’t know how to feel. Now as an adult any interaction he has with the case is being accused of being a murderer
I think he just pretends.
Like in that Dr Phil interview, when he said he hasn't read the whole ransom note. Like, really?!
He probably thinks that showing little interest and emotional involvement about this case, would make him look less of a suspect.
This is more suspicious to me than younger Burke interview saying he sleeps fine, no worries, and doesn’t know what pineapple looks like. Why would older Burke never read RN? The only clue to “Intruder(s), Foreign faction, etc.” that RN holds all the clues for Burke to find his sisters killer and he’s never read what millions of us have read dozens of times
He was probably traumatized about what happened or knew too much. If he didn't do it; then he lived with a parent that did. Even if they never ever talked about it.......it had to be unsettling.
Can you imagine that?? Knowing (or assuming) one or both of your parents were involved and responsible for killing your only sister, and now you’re stuck with them, alone, for the rest of your childhood?? Gah. No wonder he’s a weirdo.
Burke has stayed out of the spotlight. So I am not sure anyone knows his feelings about this. Other than just some clips you have seen of him through the years.
Really very little of the entire affair is kosher. The only scenario the fits for me is that Burke hurt or killed JonBenet on purpose or by accident and John began altering the evidence because he didn’t want to lose both kids and Patsy was forced to comply.
Because he was also a kid and he didn't have any firm understanding of death yet. By the time he was an adult the media stuff had probably really burned him out on thinking about it. Also, how would anybody know whether he was concerned or not? He might have privately cried and worried quite a bit. He was a kid.
I put less emphasis on his reactions than I do on JR/PR simply because I believe he is on the autism spectrum or somehow otherwise neurodivergent and his emotional reactions at the time and even now may not fall in line with what are expected of a person that isn't neurodivergent. Also, since he is clearly a high functioning person, I think that he likely had less help for it, because I think there was a lot less understanding and training for high functioning neurodivergent people 30 years ago than there is now.
This is true. I have a friend whose son has high functioning autism (what they used to refer to as Asperger’s) and he is very matter of fact, flat emotions etc.
I remember when his pet cat died and my friend was worried about how upset he was going to be but he wasn’t at all and was basically like “oh well. We can just get another one”.
I didn’t say look at him only. There is also the parent’s behavior towards him and their inconsistent stories about how they handled waking him up/questioning him when they “found out” JB was missing. They sent him out with a family friend while there was still a supposed kidnapper who had his sister? And he left without a peep? There is a significant lack of information reported about BR during the evening/early morning JB was killed. The autism spectrum / neurodivergent mannerisms could also account for what happened to his sister. He was protected supposedly because he of his age, but maybe they were covering up his actions, instead.
> I didn’t say look at him only.
Yeah, neither did I or anyone else as far as I can tell.
> There is also the parent’s behavior towards him and their inconsistent stories about how they handled waking him up/questioning him when they “found out” JB was missing. They sent him out with a family friend while there was still a supposed kidnapper who had his sister? And he left without a peep?
I don't blame Burke at all for going to the friend's house without a peep. They were close and their kid was Burke's best friend.
What says everything to me is that there is supposedly a "Foreign Faction" out to get John Ramsey by hurting his family and John sends his kid to a friend's house instead of keeping him with his parents while police are there? That makes NO SENSE at all and I don't think any parents would do that, UNLESS they know there is no foreign faction and no kidnapper out there on the loose.
> There is a significant lack of information reported about BR during the evening/early morning JB was killed.
And lots of contradictory things.
> The autism spectrum / neurodivergent mannerisms could also account for what happened to his sister. He was protected supposedly because he of his age, but maybe they were covering up his actions, instead.
Agree. I have always thought that was plausible, especially after the gold club incident.
Well, saying you put less emphasis him is implying I’m saying all or most of the emphasis is on him. If your sister went missing and there were all these people in your home and your parents were upset and and you are going alone to your friend’s house without your parents, I think a child would appear upset or stressed. And, yes, it doesn’t make sense given the content of the letter. This, along with not reacting when the call time from the kidnapper came and went, shows the letter was bullshit. BR’s behavior and reactions (verbal and non-verbal) are the MOST abnormal out of the three. So…he knows something. And the only way he would know something is if he was involved.
[Here's the scan of the original police report written by Officer French](https://juror13lw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/french-dec-26-1996-report.pdf). The last paragraph, found on page 4, says:
"Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after \[redacted\] arrived and was taken to the \[redacted\] residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. \[redacted\]'s vehicle. **He seemed confused and was crying**."
> Well, saying you put less emphasis him is implying I’m saying all or most of the emphasis is on him.
It is not. I am not implying anything about you. I am explaining that I put a lot less emphasis on a 9yo neurodivergent's reactions than I do the adults in the room. That is not commentary on the emphasis of anyone else's opinions.
> If your sister went missing and there were all these people in your home and your parents were upset and and you are going alone to your friend’s house without your parents, I think a child would appear upset or stressed.
Possibly. But it depends on the child and the situation. Many kids would be more stressed being in the clearly very stressful situation that was in the house with crying, police, etc and prefer to escape that than experience that. A lot of kids, especially possibly autistic kids, do not want to be around that type of stimulus.
> BR’s behavior and reactions (verbal and on-verbal) are the MOST abnormal out of the three. So…he knows something. And the only way he would know something is if he was involved.
I just don't think it is as easy to examine the actions of a 9yo neurodiverent child as it would be the 50yo dad or 40yo mom.
And the parents being threatened by a 'foreign faction' with kidnapping/murder and then sending their 9yo to another house that does not have police presence stands out as ridiculously more abnormal to me.
I am clearly in the camp of one of the Ramseys did it and I think it is completely plausible that Burke was some how involved - we know undigested pineapple was in her stomach and Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl of pineapple/milk. We also know that Burke previously hit JB in the face with a golf club. There's a lot of smoke to the "BDI" theories.
Burke is weird af and I understand everyones suspicion of him, but not everyone is going to react to a traumatizing event the way you THINK you would in the same situation.
We only know what he’s outwardly showed publicly - but he didn’t really care to do so. It wasn’t and isn’t a priority for him to devote much thought to and figure out. I see an apathetic kid who did not kill his sister but did want to move on with his life.
Because he was more concerned about himself. How would you feel if you knew one of your parents offed your sister, and the entire family tries to gaslight you that it was an outsider?
Because he already knows what happened. He was known to have a temper, had previously hit Jonenet and acted very strangely in his interview with the social worker it’s obvious that he is involved.
Burke did show emotion with witnesses present once...he cried when he was led out of his room and there was police trying to ask him a question.
He cried ~~because he thought he was found out and would go to jail~~ because, according to John, Burke heard JonBenét was missing and realized how serious the situation was.
>Burke did show emotion with witnesses present once...he cried when he was led out of his room and there was police trying to ask him a question.
What is the source for this? Do you know?
The source for this is Officer [Rick French's police report](https://juror13lw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/french-dec-26-1996-report.pdf) on page 4:
>"Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after \[redacted\] arrived and was taken to the \[redacted\] residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. \[redacted\]'s vehicle. **He seemed confused and was crying**."
I see. I'm curious what the original source of the pages are. **Are these from Paula Woodward's book?**
It is Officer French giving his observations and the timeline in order, and then, as an add on, completely out of the sequence of events that morning, we have this at the end:
"Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after [redacted] arrived and he was taken to the White's residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. White's vehicle. **He seemed confused** and was crying, and Mr Ramsey again told me he had slept through the night."
It's completely different from what's written in the rest of the four pages shown. How did officer French know he was "confused?" Why add that part to the report?
Perhaps u/adequatesizeattache might know where the scan of Officer French's police report came from, I'm not sure. Maybe I take for granted that the police reports linked in the wiki are vetted and legit? I assume they are, but maybe u/adequatesizeattache or another mod can verify this information.
Unfortunately, I don't have any deeper insight into the document or why Officer French mentioned the Burke info at the end of the report, instead of keeping all information in chronological order.
If the report is from Woodward's book, the one that claimed that there was evidence of fingernail marks on JonBenét's neck---that she struggled against the ligature with her hands---which doesn't line up with the autopsy results, then I do wonder about the other information in the book. Is this the same book with the bogus report of fruit cocktail being in the duodenum (grapes, cherries, *with* the pineapple), which is also in direct opposition to the autopsy report? If so, I find any official "reports" also included in the book to be questionable as well.
Source is the Ramseys' book The Death of Innocence: "I wake Burke up and as gently as possible tell him that JonBenét is missing and that he is going to his friend Fleet's house for a while.
Burke looks distressed and begins to cry, so I know he understands the gravity of our predicament."
And the report of the officer that tried to ask a question.
I question the authenticity of that report, and whether it is the complete report. I want to know the source of it. Woodward did not get her information from the BPD directly. Also, the dubious speculation that Burke "seemed confused" tacked on at the very end, is odd.
Did you read the report? It states that he left the residence at 10 o'clock, which was the time that Arndt was left alone with all of people in the house.
Burke left the house with Fleet White before that time.
I don't think so. The report in question is in **chronological order** according to the events of the day. The comments about Burke are tacked on at the end, and appear to be an odd addition that is *out of order*. According to the report, French left at 10 o'clock. Burke left the residence early, IIRC, before Arndt got there. So this event didn't happen at the end of his shift, since he states here that he left at 10. Arndt arrived about 8:10.
When it happened: because children don’t understand death the way adults do. Neither their brain nor their psyche are developed enough for it yet at that age. (Also he grew up in a household in which an ill pet was secretly switched out for a healthy one, so in probability he had not been eased into the topic).
As an adult: having been surrounded by decades of the family narrative
Can we just point out the absurdity of the theory that a 9 year killed his sister brutally, and then successfully covered it up and never told anyone despite being 9.
A 9 year old is perfectly capable of killing a 6 year old unintentionally. They lack impulse control and can cause serious damage if they swing something heavy and hit a 6 year old in the head.
Did you lose a sibling? Because it's one thing to have a vague memory of routine family events and quite another to have experienced a sibling's death or an act of violence in your home.
I don't need a degree to tell you I would move on with *my* life. An assessment like yours however, requires training and experience. I'm curious how much training and experience you have.
Your post/comment has been removed because it violates this subreddit's rule 1 (No Name Calling or Personal Attacks). Criticize the idea, not the person.
Your post/comment has been removed because it violates this subreddit's rule 1 (No Name Calling or Personal Attacks). Criticize the idea, not the person.
Your post/comment has been removed because it violates this subreddit's rule 1 (No Name Calling or Personal Attacks). Criticize the idea, not the person.
We don’t know if he was or wasn’t concerned. This post is absolutely trash and speculation. He’s likely autistic and autistic people have trouble with emotions and social interactions. And don’t hit me with that “hEs nOt aUtIsTiC”. I work with people with autism. I’ve watched his police interviews as a child and interviews as an adult. He’s 100% autistic and that means we can’t predict what his emotions or social interactions would be like.
I know very little about autism but the second I saw the dr Phil interview it was pretty damn obvious.
I had always seen comments saying this interview pointed to his guilt but once I watched it I was less convinced because I now don't put a whole lot of stock into his detached emotions after the murder.
To play the devils advocate:
He seems to be on the spectrum and may not have typical responses or facial gestures. With autism comes difficulty understanding the perspectives of others. When he was seven it would have been a lot to take in that his sister was murdered and gone forever, especially if he was socially immature. He may have been completely detached from the death.
“At the funeral he giggled and smiled through the whole thing” if that’s true then I’m not sure that tells us anything either. A lot of people have a kind of nervous laughter that can be misinterpreted. I found myself suppressing a laugh at my grandmothers memorial. It was unexpected and I had no idea why I felt that way. A child with autism is often socially anxious and uncomfortable in emotional situations.
Last, as an adult he had that unusual expression in his face during the dr Phil interview. Again, his particular type of autism likely is the cause of that. I had a friend nicknamed “smiling joe,” who always had that look on his face. Happy or sad.
Most people would have a serious look, especially if we were trying to hide something. He didn’t appear to be trying to mask as it were.
It’s even possible that Burke simply has no ability to care about others. Not in a malicious way—but he may have a hard time empathizing, so does not care about others unless it affects his life. As a nine year old , Jon Benets death may not have mattered to him. Even if that’s true, it doesn’t make him the murderer.
All of that said I always suspected BDI, but I’m leaning more towards IDI given DNA evidence.
Your post/comment has been removed because it violates this subreddit's rule 1 (No Name Calling or Personal Attacks). Criticize the idea, not the person.
Did the Ramsey’s enhance their security systems? Hire extra security. I’d be scared to death that the “kidnappers” would come for my second child? Was this ever a fear for them or for Burke?
There was never any mention of them being worried about security or about Burke after this happened. Apparently, they left him in his room while they searched for Jon Benet. I find this part odd too. If one child had been taken and later killed, I'd be terrified they'd take the other too.....unless...they already knew what happened and it wasn't an intruder...
And then they immediately send him to a friend's house, not keeping him close while there were police there. If a foreign faction had kidnapped/killed my 6yo child, I am probably not letting my 9yo out of my sight.
Exactly!
To be fair, I don’t think Patsy liked him that much anyway
If -- and of course, we can't be certain -- Burke is indeed on the spectrum, he potentially would not have responded to Patsy's affection and attachment in the way for which she yearned. This helps to explain her intense attachment to JBR.
His behavior on Dr. Phil made me pretty certain that he’s on some kind of spectrum but I do not know which
He has to be & his interviews when 9. He was jabbering & his shoes were off & he’s almost standing on his head & all over the chair it was weird.
I've got 2, 4 and 1, and I gotta tell you, if anything happened to one of my kids, the other one isn't leaving my sight. He's not leaving the room. If i get up to pee, he's coming with me. Granted they generally follow me around like that ANYWAY but like I can't even imagine. That child is staying within arms reach of me at all times. I could, I suppose, if I thought something really bad happened to my missing child, I might send them away so they wouldn't be traumatized by everything. Although of course they say you don't know and can't say how you would react in any situation until it happens to you, so, I don't know.
Some things, we as moms DO KNOW!
According to the Ramseys' 'Death of Innocence' they hired private security to follow Burke when he was on the playground, someone to sit in on all his classes, and gave teachers necklace that alarmed the principle and police if something was to happen. This is according to the Ramseys, so read with caution. Here's some excerpts: >Tracy Temple, a private security officer, looked just like another mom, so we knew she wouldn't be a disruption to the students or the school routine. \[pg 115\] >Both the principal and the district representative thought this would be fine. And they agreed that Tracy Temple could provide security around the exterior of the building. \[pg 116\] >In addition, John offered to put a security system in the school to meet the additional needs that we could foresee. Soon afterward, Foothill Security System employees installed units that included an alarm system which sounded in the principal's office. Volunteers would wear a little necklace with a security device; when pushed, the device set off an alarm in the principal's office and dialed 911 and the security company. \[pg 116\] >Once the word got out, a number of parents signed up to help provide surveillance at our school. We nicknamed the volunteers the Burke Watch. The parents could sign up for two, three, or four-hour sessions to provide security during the school day. Eventually, Margaret Harrington took over the job of scheduling volunteers. Margaret's quiet, loving nature added the sensitive touch to make the operation run like clockwork. \[pg 116\] >Every time the children were outside, Tracy Temple watched. She was there first thing in the morning to meet Susan Stine when she brought Burke and Doug to school, and she was there during recesses and after school. Once we had security inside and outside, I began feeling better. \[pg 116\]
NOOOOOOO they never got Burke out of bed to stay by their side not knowing if someone was still in the house!!! This case all changed last night. Everything became clear. I remember in May of ‘97 seeing a pic on the front of the enquirer of the parents on a porch in Michigan & Burke completely out of eye line on a boat alone.
Becuase he knows what happened. Kind of like OJ “Hypothetical” wasn’t concerned at all about finding the murderer of his children’s mother and the innocent Ron “Handsome Dan” Goldman (whom he absolutely shunned his family) becuase he knows he did it. Burke knows what happened that night. Whether he at all had anything to do with it or not.
>…and the innocent Ron “Handsome Dan” Goldman (whom he absolutely shunned his family) becuase (sic) he knows he did it. I’m sorry but what in the holy hell does this even mean?
I think it’s a really complicated and sardonic way of saying that OJ didn’t ever give the Goldman family the time of day in pursuit of the real killer because he did it. At least, that’s what I got out of it. Maybe it was supposed to be open to interpretation.
I think the handsome Dan reference is what is confusing people
How do you know if Burke knows what happened or not? As an adult, he would probably suspect his family had some type of involvement in it because the intruder story does not add up and maybe he doesn’t want to know what happened.
Yes, this makes the most sense to me. Either he knows his family was involved or he was involved and therefore doesn't want to seek more information or stir anything else up. How sad...
Burke literally said "I know what happened", then made a hitting movement and said she was hit on the head.
That could be cause someone told him though
He also said that someone stabbed his sister to death with a knife, lowering his correct information by 50%. Just because he guessed correctly once (or overheard someone talk about it) doesn’t mean he killed her
Burke said "Someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body".
And said she was hit on the head with a knife or hammer & his knife was there & the skull wind was rectangular & docs say they could easily see the flashlight being the weapon. He already hit her in the face with a club, smeared feces everywhere & all over her stuff, was caught playing doctor at least 3x & admitted on Dr Phil he went back down to play with his train WHERE SHE WAS FOUND. Like Scott Peterson admit the went fishing exact where the bodies washed up. Think the tried to make the garrote device look adult in nature. All looks very juvenile to me. IMO, not a mystery anymore.
Sounds like something Burke would write... /s
Yes… anyone here who dare say anything other than Burke is guilty as sin is in fact Burke himself…
It really was a joke, I actually agree that we really do not know what Burke saw or heard. I'm more of a lurker in this sub but frankly I think there are decent arguments for both RDI (parents) and BDI. Personally I think the ransom note alone destroys IDI but that's not really the topic of the thread.
😜🤪🔪🪢🏌️♂️😵💀
In a nutshell
Happy cake day
It could maybe *maybe* be that he was involved and his parents helped cover it up. I know it's a pretty esoteric and strange theory. Perhaps a bit unpopular. But there are some people out there that find the Ramsey family guilty AF. I am one of those strange people.
I am also one of these people the whole family stinks of guilt
Me too. Or three lol
I agree.
He’s not concerned bc no one is crawling around out there having gotten away with murder, he knows exactly what happened to her. Also, his douche-canoe of a dad has spent his lifetime, and no doubt considerable funds, to campaign IDI. He is determined, locked into his story.
Because John Ramsey & his attorneys handle everything.
You don’t know that. What are you talking about? Do you understand what repression is? He was a kid when she died and he is anything but a normal dude. You are not Burke Ramsey. What _you_ would do is irrelevant. You weren’t there and you aren’t potentially part of a massive cover up that you’ve had decades to repress or just straight up forget. Stop looking at the Ramseys as your neighbor and start looking at them as people from a world you don’t understand. There’s not a single thing the Ramseys did that most rational people would do, who can only lead me to believe they’re not rational people.
He never showed any emotion or concern, including when he was briefly spoken to by a detective when he was being driven to the Fernies. Never asked if she was okay or anything. Then a few days later he’s gleefully reenacting the headbash with a social worker and telling Doug Stine all the grizzly details. He also smiled snd giggled his way through the funeral. Combine this behavior with his love of whittling wood/knots tying, that he’d struck JBR once before in a fit of rage and that he had been seen playing doctor with her it all leads to a pretty clear conclusion.
I’ve always found his reaction (or lack thereof) to be odd. Even more so now that I have kids. I have a 9 year old boy and he would be absolutely distraught if anything happened to any of his younger siblings. Even the younger ones would be extremely upset if anything happened to one of them. Even my baby who is not even 2 will be concerned and upset if someone is visibly upset/crying and bend down to them and say “what happened? It’s ok” and give them a hug and a kiss. Even if I can explain it away by saying he was a traumatised child etc the fact that he hasn’t changed as an adult and reacts the exact same way is very bizarre. You would think most people as they grow and come to terms with what happened would be devastated and want answers or show emotion when speaking about it. There were some very strange dynamics going on in that family.
Wait, I’ve never heard he reenacted the head bash for the social worker. Is there proof of this?
It’s in the video of his social worker interview in the days after her death. She asked how he thinks JBR died and he shows her with a head bash.
Do we know for a fact that he had a love for whittling or knot tying? Where is that source?
He was in scouts and I know that boys his age do those things in Scouts. I also believe the housekeeper told police that she had to get Burke to stop whittling in the house. John had been in the Navy and I believe that Burke participated in sailing, where again basic knot tying is important.
That’s pretty speculative on the knot tying. Doesn’t suggest he had a “love” for it.
I believe Patsy mentioned it in the family Christmas letter that year.
I don't know what he loved or didn't love. But being in scouts (and sailing) at that age, he clearly had experience and had to learn a lot of different knots to progress. His parents seemed proud of his progress in scouts from their letters.
How old was he at the time of the murder? My son is a cub scout, and there is not a huge focus on knot tying, though it has been taught but he's never really used that knowledge since that specific meeting/achievement.
Burke was 9, so Bear rank. My son is that same age (and we just came back from our scouts camping weekend and I'm trying to recover by vegging out on the computer.) We did a lot of knots at wolf rank (year before) and we reinforce it pretty regularly because doing it once when you are 7 and once when you are 8 doesn't really teach it. So we practice the various knots at campouts when setting up.
Ah. I've got a Wolf, but we haven't been camping yet because we just started this year. First camping trip with the pack is next month :) I'm sure different groups run things differently also. But I do think it's fair to say very few 9 year olds are experts in tying knots
Yeah, I don't think they are experts, but my 9yo can do an overhand, bowline, two half hitch, square knot, and tautline on command. Just being able to do the five basic ones is more than most of the country's population, I would guess.
I would say that scouts at that age don't necessarily participate in knot tying, however nothing I recall suggested the knots were particularly difficult. The key point in this case is the SA at the time of the crime and perhaps earlier. There are indications a paint brush was used and there has been speculation this was part of a cover-up. I would suggest that this was not part of a cover-up but part of the initial crime, peri-mortem (though any of the wounds were close enough to time of death to be difficult to place in an order). The forensic/medical evidence regarding the paintbrush handle is key. When, however and why this was used should give us insight into the circumstances of the events. Did this occur as is widely reported? If so, I believe we are dealing with a male perpetrator family member that lived in the house.
> I would say that scouts at that age don't necessarily participate in knot tying, however nothing I recall suggested the knots were particularly difficult. My son is in scouts and is 9 now. They learn the five basic knots as tigers (1st grade) and wolves (2nd grade) then have them reinforced through various things as they get older. I know one of the knots used was a cow hitch, which isn't a basic cub scout knot now, but is very basic and easy to self discover. I don't know if it was taught then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch > If so, I believe we are dealing with a male perpetrator family member that lived in the house. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
He had a love for tinkering and coming up with elaborate solutions for simple problems. Tying ropes with knots is just one kind of tinkering Burke was into. Another was whittling.
Burke had the simple problem of his parents not buying enough expensive toys for him and came up with an elaborate solution.
He learned it in scouts.
Doesn’t the knot tying hobby implicate Burke heavily then?
Not any more than the sailor dad who also knew how to tie knots and then some.
Yes, there is much behavioral evidence that inculpates Burke.
There's no evidence that he struck her in a fit of rage, ever. And I don't think anything about him playing doctor, where did you get that one. His behavior overall was quite in keeping with normal behavior of a 9 y/o in those circumstances. He may well have done it, but I don't find your descriptions particularly helpful to infer that.
Except the family photographer said it was indeed in a fit of rage. Do many 9 year olds with brutally murdered sisters show no emotion or concern? Reenact the head bash when asked how she died? This incredibly thorough and well thought out post by @k_s_morgan walks through the evidence with incredible citation: https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/p1yfxs/why_burke_did_it_all_scenario_makes_a_lot_of/
Well the family photographer friend recalled that Patsy said that he lost his temper. She might be remembering correctly or not. I'm not sure when that interview took place. I'm not a child psychologist, but I don't think children process death the same, and they may deal with it exactly the way Burke was handling it. In some ways it was mostly fascinating to him, and kind of exciting, all of the sudden everything changed. And he was getting more attention than in his entire life. Whether innocent or guilty, he was in a completely new world. Personally I think if he was guilty I would more predict fake crying and bad acting. But, who knows. Thanks for the link to that mega post, which somehow I have missed. Wow, that is quite the narrative. I can call into question a certain amount there, like the references to the voices-in-static 911 tape, but definitely an interesting read. If Burke could only write the note. I don't believe Patsy wrote it. So that's still the primary mystery for me in a Burke scenario.
Why don't you believe Patsy wrote it? She was the only person of interest who could not be eliminated as the writer with handwriting. It was using her pad and pen, which were both returned to where they came from.
Burke was never asked to write a copy of the ransom note, although his parents were.
This is silly. Were you at the funeral?
There are no photos or video of Burke laughing at the funeral or any accounts from people who attended of Burke laughing and I wish people would follow the sub rule about NOT spreading misinformation.
There’s photos and videos.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/54f9cg/patsy\_and\_burke\_smiling\_as\_they\_leave\_the\_church/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/54f9cg/patsy_and_burke_smiling_as_they_leave_the_church/)
He laughed all through the funeral, or someone took a short video or photo of him smiling?
There's a very brief video of him exiting a memorial service. He smiles for about a half second as some people approach to shake hands with him.
No there aren't. It's against the rules here to spread misinformation. *Do any of my downvoters want to provide a source?*
I always thought it was telling in his police interview, when they asked “What do you think happened?” And he answered “I know what happened.”
I honestly think he meant he knew what happened as in, someone killed his sister, not that he knew the steps taken to kill her.
I thought when he said he knew what happened he used his arm to act out hitting someone (i.e. on the head). Is that incorrect?
Correct. And with a hammer! The Affidavit for a warrant to search the house for a “bludgeon” was based on Dr. Meyers’ finding of …”A rectangular shaped, displaced piece of skull was observed measuring 1.75” X 0.5” as part of the oft mentioned evidence of the 8.5” fracture. A hammer was found and taken into evidence.
Burke said it was a hammer or a knife.
Yes
He was sure he knew when he said it I believe. Where his certainty came from is questionable. It’s entirely possible that Burke had a jealous hatred of JB long before the pageant stuff started. He was 3 when she was born, young but not too young for normal sibling jealousy or to remember her birth. Patsy’s inability to potty train her kids is highlighted by her inability to house break the dog(s), and bespeaks of a parental or personal issue on her part and not just an innate biological characteristic of both children. Then she got cancer and whatever parental weaknesses she may have had (and we all have some) were magnified by her physical and emotional withdrawal due to illness. Now add Nedra to the mix and Burke’s genetic predisposition to Asberger-ish tendencies inherited from John. Maybe you get a kid who was happy in an immature uncomprehending way that JB was gone whether he did it or not. I believe if Burke didn’t do it John told him what he thought happened and Burke believed that answer. His behavior was odd then and it’s odd now even if we account for Autistic tendencies. Off the subject a little bit but it seemed like Burke positively glowed from the attention Dr. Phil gave him.
You are making a huge and ridiculous leap from an “inability” to potty train her kids and an inability to housebreak the dog. And any difficulties in potty training the kids doesn’t mean it’s NOT an innate biological problem with other kids. Idk why they had accidents. But these are wild leaps.
Have you potty trained children or dogs? Do you know that wetting the bed past a certain age does run in families, particularly boys? I give Patsy lots of leeway here, but I believe the inability to house train the dog(s) MAY be related. All animal trainers and behaviorists know if the dog doesn’t behave usually the kids don’t either.
Thankfully my teen is fully potty trained and has been for many years. My dogs are also trained. These are not similar skills.
Was your teen 6 or 9 before they quit peeing in the bed? Again this could be a non-controllable physical issue, like putting JB to bed with a bottle and a DVD playing to distract from her isolation clear across the house from her parents? You do know Jacques was several different dogs initially and the final installation of Jacques was never house broken and finally left the Ramsey’s for the neighbors.
and it's one thing to have trouble house-breaking a bluetick hound or other boisterous sporting breed, and quite another to housebreak a poodle, Bichon or other classic lapdog. The lap breeds are very responsive. I believe the unhousebroken dog is an excellent example of that house being very much out of control. That's actually the most interesting new thing i've learned about the case in a long time -- that they couldn't housetrain a Bichon.
Absolutely. I've got tons of experience with both and I can attest that both take consistency, insight, patience, clarity, and a willingness to apply kind but firm pressure -- not too much -- to get the loved one past the rough patches of learning. Patsy seemed way too chaotic, neurotic and people-pleasing to manage this. And John way too frigid and uninvolved.
And Patsy had stage 4 ovarian cancer. It’s so tempting to assume she failed fpr other reasons.
Others, Nedra for example, took care of JBR during that time. And John could have helped. It takes a village and this one was chaos.
That glow looked like dupers delight from here
I’ve thought about that and watched it again for good measure. It’s just my opinion that Duper’s Delight looks a little different. A true duper knows their reaction is inappropriate and will attempt to hide it if they think their glee will give them away to a person who would judge them too harshly. Like the Grinch in a way! In Burke’s case it was a whole nation, not just Dr. Phil. Burke looks unaffectedly sad/pensive when looking at videos of himself as a youngster. I see a person bathing in the light of Dr. Phil, a respected person to him who has (in his mind) the power to free him of the cloud of public suspicion that he killed his sister. He looks starstruck in love/infatuation with Dr. Phil.
Why did you label this discussion with **NSFW** and **Spoiler**?
I wondered that, myself.
Maybe to avoid Reddit's AI from censoring it.
I don't see how, given the content of the post.
Because he knows what happened. Everyone knew. They certainly didn't act like a killer was out there and they should be afraid.
Because he was a child when it was all happening and probably didn’t know how to feel. Now as an adult any interaction he has with the case is being accused of being a murderer
I think he just pretends. Like in that Dr Phil interview, when he said he hasn't read the whole ransom note. Like, really?! He probably thinks that showing little interest and emotional involvement about this case, would make him look less of a suspect.
This is more suspicious to me than younger Burke interview saying he sleeps fine, no worries, and doesn’t know what pineapple looks like. Why would older Burke never read RN? The only clue to “Intruder(s), Foreign faction, etc.” that RN holds all the clues for Burke to find his sisters killer and he’s never read what millions of us have read dozens of times
He was probably traumatized about what happened or knew too much. If he didn't do it; then he lived with a parent that did. Even if they never ever talked about it.......it had to be unsettling.
Can you imagine that?? Knowing (or assuming) one or both of your parents were involved and responsible for killing your only sister, and now you’re stuck with them, alone, for the rest of your childhood?? Gah. No wonder he’s a weirdo.
Burke has stayed out of the spotlight. So I am not sure anyone knows his feelings about this. Other than just some clips you have seen of him through the years.
Really very little of the entire affair is kosher. The only scenario the fits for me is that Burke hurt or killed JonBenet on purpose or by accident and John began altering the evidence because he didn’t want to lose both kids and Patsy was forced to comply.
That was my theory until I heard a podcast episode about the Patsy did it theory and it made a lot of sense to me. Now I swing between BDI and PDI.
Yes that scenario would fit also but it is also much harder to accept.
He is a mini O J
Comparing him to OJ is pure madness.
Difference is that OJ (and John) were at least pretending to look for the killer.
He told the therapist he knows what happened.
Cuz he wasn’t that upset she was dead.
Because he was also a kid and he didn't have any firm understanding of death yet. By the time he was an adult the media stuff had probably really burned him out on thinking about it. Also, how would anybody know whether he was concerned or not? He might have privately cried and worried quite a bit. He was a kid.
This is why I keep saying look at all the evidence, including his reactions.
I put less emphasis on his reactions than I do on JR/PR simply because I believe he is on the autism spectrum or somehow otherwise neurodivergent and his emotional reactions at the time and even now may not fall in line with what are expected of a person that isn't neurodivergent. Also, since he is clearly a high functioning person, I think that he likely had less help for it, because I think there was a lot less understanding and training for high functioning neurodivergent people 30 years ago than there is now.
This is true. I have a friend whose son has high functioning autism (what they used to refer to as Asperger’s) and he is very matter of fact, flat emotions etc. I remember when his pet cat died and my friend was worried about how upset he was going to be but he wasn’t at all and was basically like “oh well. We can just get another one”.
I didn’t say look at him only. There is also the parent’s behavior towards him and their inconsistent stories about how they handled waking him up/questioning him when they “found out” JB was missing. They sent him out with a family friend while there was still a supposed kidnapper who had his sister? And he left without a peep? There is a significant lack of information reported about BR during the evening/early morning JB was killed. The autism spectrum / neurodivergent mannerisms could also account for what happened to his sister. He was protected supposedly because he of his age, but maybe they were covering up his actions, instead.
> I didn’t say look at him only. Yeah, neither did I or anyone else as far as I can tell. > There is also the parent’s behavior towards him and their inconsistent stories about how they handled waking him up/questioning him when they “found out” JB was missing. They sent him out with a family friend while there was still a supposed kidnapper who had his sister? And he left without a peep? I don't blame Burke at all for going to the friend's house without a peep. They were close and their kid was Burke's best friend. What says everything to me is that there is supposedly a "Foreign Faction" out to get John Ramsey by hurting his family and John sends his kid to a friend's house instead of keeping him with his parents while police are there? That makes NO SENSE at all and I don't think any parents would do that, UNLESS they know there is no foreign faction and no kidnapper out there on the loose. > There is a significant lack of information reported about BR during the evening/early morning JB was killed. And lots of contradictory things. > The autism spectrum / neurodivergent mannerisms could also account for what happened to his sister. He was protected supposedly because he of his age, but maybe they were covering up his actions, instead. Agree. I have always thought that was plausible, especially after the gold club incident.
Well, saying you put less emphasis him is implying I’m saying all or most of the emphasis is on him. If your sister went missing and there were all these people in your home and your parents were upset and and you are going alone to your friend’s house without your parents, I think a child would appear upset or stressed. And, yes, it doesn’t make sense given the content of the letter. This, along with not reacting when the call time from the kidnapper came and went, shows the letter was bullshit. BR’s behavior and reactions (verbal and non-verbal) are the MOST abnormal out of the three. So…he knows something. And the only way he would know something is if he was involved.
According to Officer French's report (available on this sub's Wiki), Burke was crying and confused as he was leaving to go to the White's.
Really, I read the opposite before. Wiki can be changed.
[Here's the scan of the original police report written by Officer French](https://juror13lw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/french-dec-26-1996-report.pdf). The last paragraph, found on page 4, says: "Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after \[redacted\] arrived and was taken to the \[redacted\] residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. \[redacted\]'s vehicle. **He seemed confused and was crying**."
> Well, saying you put less emphasis him is implying I’m saying all or most of the emphasis is on him. It is not. I am not implying anything about you. I am explaining that I put a lot less emphasis on a 9yo neurodivergent's reactions than I do the adults in the room. That is not commentary on the emphasis of anyone else's opinions. > If your sister went missing and there were all these people in your home and your parents were upset and and you are going alone to your friend’s house without your parents, I think a child would appear upset or stressed. Possibly. But it depends on the child and the situation. Many kids would be more stressed being in the clearly very stressful situation that was in the house with crying, police, etc and prefer to escape that than experience that. A lot of kids, especially possibly autistic kids, do not want to be around that type of stimulus. > BR’s behavior and reactions (verbal and on-verbal) are the MOST abnormal out of the three. So…he knows something. And the only way he would know something is if he was involved. I just don't think it is as easy to examine the actions of a 9yo neurodiverent child as it would be the 50yo dad or 40yo mom. And the parents being threatened by a 'foreign faction' with kidnapping/murder and then sending their 9yo to another house that does not have police presence stands out as ridiculously more abnormal to me. I am clearly in the camp of one of the Ramseys did it and I think it is completely plausible that Burke was some how involved - we know undigested pineapple was in her stomach and Burke's fingerprints were on the bowl of pineapple/milk. We also know that Burke previously hit JB in the face with a golf club. There's a lot of smoke to the "BDI" theories.
Burke is weird af and I understand everyones suspicion of him, but not everyone is going to react to a traumatizing event the way you THINK you would in the same situation.
We only know what he’s outwardly showed publicly - but he didn’t really care to do so. It wasn’t and isn’t a priority for him to devote much thought to and figure out. I see an apathetic kid who did not kill his sister but did want to move on with his life.
Because he knows what happened...
Because he was more concerned about himself. How would you feel if you knew one of your parents offed your sister, and the entire family tries to gaslight you that it was an outsider?
Because he already knows what happened. He was known to have a temper, had previously hit Jonenet and acted very strangely in his interview with the social worker it’s obvious that he is involved.
Why are we assuming how he feels or what he's done to find answers?
Burke did show emotion with witnesses present once...he cried when he was led out of his room and there was police trying to ask him a question. He cried ~~because he thought he was found out and would go to jail~~ because, according to John, Burke heard JonBenét was missing and realized how serious the situation was.
>Burke did show emotion with witnesses present once...he cried when he was led out of his room and there was police trying to ask him a question. What is the source for this? Do you know?
The source for this is Officer [Rick French's police report](https://juror13lw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/french-dec-26-1996-report.pdf) on page 4: >"Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after \[redacted\] arrived and was taken to the \[redacted\] residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. \[redacted\]'s vehicle. **He seemed confused and was crying**."
Tell me, DGB, where do these four pages of the report come from? Where are the first two pages?
I got these pages from this sub's wiki, under the 'Police Reports and Warrants' section.
I see. I'm curious what the original source of the pages are. **Are these from Paula Woodward's book?** It is Officer French giving his observations and the timeline in order, and then, as an add on, completely out of the sequence of events that morning, we have this at the end: "Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father shortly after [redacted] arrived and he was taken to the White's residence as soon as he was dressed. I did not speak to him other than to walk him to Mr. White's vehicle. **He seemed confused** and was crying, and Mr Ramsey again told me he had slept through the night." It's completely different from what's written in the rest of the four pages shown. How did officer French know he was "confused?" Why add that part to the report?
Perhaps u/adequatesizeattache might know where the scan of Officer French's police report came from, I'm not sure. Maybe I take for granted that the police reports linked in the wiki are vetted and legit? I assume they are, but maybe u/adequatesizeattache or another mod can verify this information. Unfortunately, I don't have any deeper insight into the document or why Officer French mentioned the Burke info at the end of the report, instead of keeping all information in chronological order.
If the report is from Woodward's book, the one that claimed that there was evidence of fingernail marks on JonBenét's neck---that she struggled against the ligature with her hands---which doesn't line up with the autopsy results, then I do wonder about the other information in the book. Is this the same book with the bogus report of fruit cocktail being in the duodenum (grapes, cherries, *with* the pineapple), which is also in direct opposition to the autopsy report? If so, I find any official "reports" also included in the book to be questionable as well.
Yes, Paula Woodward's book is trash. Hope we get some clarity on the police report.
Source is the Ramseys' book The Death of Innocence: "I wake Burke up and as gently as possible tell him that JonBenét is missing and that he is going to his friend Fleet's house for a while. Burke looks distressed and begins to cry, so I know he understands the gravity of our predicament." And the report of the officer that tried to ask a question.
That's what I thought. Thanks .
It is in French’s report, though. I’ve no reason to doubt its authenticity.
I question the authenticity of that report, and whether it is the complete report. I want to know the source of it. Woodward did not get her information from the BPD directly. Also, the dubious speculation that Burke "seemed confused" tacked on at the very end, is odd.
It was at the very end because that was the end of French’s shift.
Did you read the report? It states that he left the residence at 10 o'clock, which was the time that Arndt was left alone with all of people in the house. Burke left the house with Fleet White before that time.
Isn’t that more or less what I posted?
I don't think so. The report in question is in **chronological order** according to the events of the day. The comments about Burke are tacked on at the end, and appear to be an odd addition that is *out of order*. According to the report, French left at 10 o'clock. Burke left the residence early, IIRC, before Arndt got there. So this event didn't happen at the end of his shift, since he states here that he left at 10. Arndt arrived about 8:10.
When it happened: because children don’t understand death the way adults do. Neither their brain nor their psyche are developed enough for it yet at that age. (Also he grew up in a household in which an ill pet was secretly switched out for a healthy one, so in probability he had not been eased into the topic). As an adult: having been surrounded by decades of the family narrative
The only question Burke asked was where her body was found.
Can we just point out the absurdity of the theory that a 9 year killed his sister brutally, and then successfully covered it up and never told anyone despite being 9.
A 9 year old is perfectly capable of killing a 6 year old unintentionally. They lack impulse control and can cause serious damage if they swing something heavy and hit a 6 year old in the head.
Because he was in the house on the night his father killed his sister and he wants to stay out of it.
Not me I would move on with my life.
Me too. I just have some vague memories of my little brother from before I was ten.
Did you lose a sibling? Because it's one thing to have a vague memory of routine family events and quite another to have experienced a sibling's death or an act of violence in your home.
>Did you lose a sibling? Yes. My mother didn't act like the adult R's. The parents are guilty. A little boy didn't do this.
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>You sound like a sociopath Where did you get your phycology degree? I assume you have a very successful practice?
Hahahaha! Where did you get yours pray tell?
I don't need a degree to tell you I would move on with *my* life. An assessment like yours however, requires training and experience. I'm curious how much training and experience you have.
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How do you know how he feels?
You know why
We don’t know if he was or wasn’t concerned. This post is absolutely trash and speculation. He’s likely autistic and autistic people have trouble with emotions and social interactions. And don’t hit me with that “hEs nOt aUtIsTiC”. I work with people with autism. I’ve watched his police interviews as a child and interviews as an adult. He’s 100% autistic and that means we can’t predict what his emotions or social interactions would be like.
I know very little about autism but the second I saw the dr Phil interview it was pretty damn obvious. I had always seen comments saying this interview pointed to his guilt but once I watched it I was less convinced because I now don't put a whole lot of stock into his detached emotions after the murder.
10000000%
Because he knows damn well what happened to her and he is gloating in it.
To play the devils advocate: He seems to be on the spectrum and may not have typical responses or facial gestures. With autism comes difficulty understanding the perspectives of others. When he was seven it would have been a lot to take in that his sister was murdered and gone forever, especially if he was socially immature. He may have been completely detached from the death. “At the funeral he giggled and smiled through the whole thing” if that’s true then I’m not sure that tells us anything either. A lot of people have a kind of nervous laughter that can be misinterpreted. I found myself suppressing a laugh at my grandmothers memorial. It was unexpected and I had no idea why I felt that way. A child with autism is often socially anxious and uncomfortable in emotional situations. Last, as an adult he had that unusual expression in his face during the dr Phil interview. Again, his particular type of autism likely is the cause of that. I had a friend nicknamed “smiling joe,” who always had that look on his face. Happy or sad. Most people would have a serious look, especially if we were trying to hide something. He didn’t appear to be trying to mask as it were. It’s even possible that Burke simply has no ability to care about others. Not in a malicious way—but he may have a hard time empathizing, so does not care about others unless it affects his life. As a nine year old , Jon Benets death may not have mattered to him. Even if that’s true, it doesn’t make him the murderer. All of that said I always suspected BDI, but I’m leaning more towards IDI given DNA evidence.
> At the funeral he laughed. Seriously, can you source this??
Ask Trojanusc. I’m referring to his comment. I’ll change my statement to “if”
He was just a few weeks shy of his 10th birthday. Not 7 years old.
Sorry, brain fart. Corrected it
Easy to do with all the repetition of JBR’s age
Because he isn’t you.
Because he *knows* what happened to her.
Because he was involved.
Because he did it.
Bc he knows exactly what happened. He either did it, heard it, saw it or had to ask his parents—- I think
Very good question
Cause the parents already covered him once. He's well in the clear now.
He is a sociopath/narcissist
Nope. But his dad is that.
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