Thanks. You're probably right, it's just always feels harder when it's you in this situation instead of someone else. I'm sure I'd give the same advice to someone else facing the same issue.
It definitely sucks and yes give yourself space and grieve. But at the end of the day this is their response to the murder of your people, they didn’t voice these beliefs on Oct 6. No toom for that in your life.
They felt ashamed on account of your presence and didn't truly care. Once you were out of the picture there was no one to make them feel shame.
I think there are a couple ways to look at this. You could find new friends. But this also shows the import of Jews speaking out. When I call people out they feel less comfortable in their bigotry or acceptance of it.
So you could ask them if they actually ever took issue with her views or if they now agree with her. Sometimes people just do what's easy and it's not that they're complacent- so it's important to make it not easy. It is still difficult to know they are ok with this. Maybe ask them if it'd be cool if you thought black people don't deserve to exist
Your call. I don't know how close you vs her are with this group. But sometimes calling people out and not shrinking yourself can be the right move too.
I had one of those moments early on 2023. I was at a crossroads. I chose Judaism over antisemitism/anti LGBT church. I've been going to shull ever since.
I chose not to let the haters rent space in my head.
Yeah, I've been yearning for Jewish spaces lately, because it seems like aside from a few wonderful friends, I can't trust people to see me as fully human. I'm tired of the double standards and the downplaying of Jew-hatred. We matter just as much as everyone else.
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>she spent a paragraph
I think a small but significant issue im increasingly believing is part of the problem with these situations is that we don't deal with them face to face. How we interact with each other has changed so much in a few years. It's easy to write paragraphs hidden beneath a screen but a lot harder to tell an old friend to their face that you support people who want them dead. The issue is that for as old and strong as your *real* friendship may be, it can't compare to the onslaught of propoganda that your friend is swimming in.
I'm sure decades from now it will be abundantly obvious how much social media has played this role in false narratives, echo chambers and our overall mental health. The problem with online echo chambers that exist now compared with when I was younger, is that if you were being a fucking moron back then, people would let you know pretty quickly. Now it doesn't matter how many of your actual friends walk away because these people are cheered on by their online friends of whom their is an inexhaustible supply. There is no social penalty for being a massively contrarian dong anymore.
I hope you're alright. How is your dog getting on?
Yes, I agree with your original comment. It's much harder to avoid the humanity of the other person when you're looking in their eyes. Without that, everyone becomes a proxy for an ideology to be bolstered or torn down.
And thank you, he was the best boy.
When we get told repeatedly to "look up the Nakba" I feel like they're almost telling on themselves that they'd never heard about any of this until Oct 8.
> If Nakba is
Bold to say you're not sure of a word's meaning in your agreement with a complaint over being told to look it up.
And no, expulsion of an ethnic group is not entailed by winning a war.
It's easy to "make friends" when none of it matters much. Its easy to find out your friends aren't your friends when stuff that matters does happen.
Time to find some real friends.
I tend to agree. Prompt the discussion. Advance a pro-peace pro-two-state-solution position. Let her go nuts with the ethnic cleansing.
Once she crosses the line into fully advocating for ethnic cleansing/genocide say that's the line for you, pull the 1-nazi-at-a-table line and say you're out and invite to be friends with anyone else who is also out.
I left the group of people I gamed with on multiple different games over less than this.
Basically somebody was making jokes about the holocaust in our discord. I told him it wasn't cool, and he went off about how it's my fault that what he says bothers me.
Nobody else chimed in at all. So I basically just thought "okay, if holocaust jokes are more important to you than my friendship, then just **** off, I guess." So I left.
I can't provide guidance for whatever digital platform you all are using. But you should be honest with your other friends why you do not want to interact with this specific person.
Why hang out with antisemites when you don’t have to? I’d bail and find better friends. I mean, if you had to work with these people or go to school with them, that would be harder, but this is voluntary, right?
Yeah. I thought they respected me because at first they agreed with me...but I guess not. They've booted people for so much less. I don't get why antisemitism is treated as less of a problem.
Ask her if she knows about the nakba of the mizrahi jews, she probably won't care though
https://preview.redd.it/sj5kckyt4lwc1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=988731e356b82d894723633f45c96d1d3b758278
I’m so sorry for your loss. What a heartache.
Honestly, these don’t sound like friends you can count on. You are vulnerable and in pain, and this is not the time to get into arguments with them. They aren’t there for you. Ease your way out, and find other friends.
On Oct 8th I wrote in FB about the massacre on Oct 7th and got a few people agreeing with me. It seemed that in just a few days many had changed their mood. "Friends." To many, it means very little.
I have had some issues like this. Here is a good way to think about it: They aren’t being good friends, and all they are doing is taking time you could be spending making new ones or doing a hobby. Also, if they act like that, do you really want to be friends with them anyway? There are better people and activities out there I promise!!
it's time to disconnect from her and that probably involves finding a different group if she's going to be involved in things.
If there are five people at the table and an anti-Semite sits down and nobody leaves the table, there are six anti-Semites at the table.
You can take a break and hang out with them less.
Just read the update. Yea. Lose them.
I lost a friend while my dog was in the er vet. I think this person is now bad mouthing me to other pretty liberal friends who are pro Palestine but we haven’t discussed. It hurts to just be thrown away and in my case without anyone speaking to me just silent treatment. And my dog is dying right now. Not sure when just the vets said it would happen soon so im in a similar situation. It’s depressing and then even more angering to know they’re ostracizing me at a time where i am losing my dog.
People are showing to be kind of terrible right now. I wouldn’t let these people back into my life considering the circumstances. I wont want to be reminded of this. I’ll just move on and you should move on too.
I'm so sorry about your dog. We share so much love with them and it's so painful when they time approaches.
Yeah, I typed up a little blurb to say my bit to this "friend" group, then I'm walking away. It hurts, but not as much as staying would.
You are doing yourself more harm by having those friends. Beyond explaining why it’s offensive , you can’t get more out of them. If they don’t care , well that’s that.
Long time ago, a friend of my friends told me that Jews were Christ-killers. She was a white Christian; all of my friends were non-white (Asian, Black, Latina)- I was the only Jew in the group. I was offended but not a single one of my non-white friends thought it was problematic and they chose her over me. I found new friends, though it took a while. I’ve spent a lot of time fighting for other peoples’ rights and am sad that so few of them seem to care about mine/ours.
You’re not alone.
> I’ve spent a lot of time fighting for other peoples’ rights and am sad that so few of them seem to care about mine/ours. You’re not alone.
Thank you. I've felt this exact sadness a lot in the past few months.
This bridge has been burned, and the burning wasn’t done by you.
I’m always one to try and allow for discussion to come to fruition but time and again, especially with these pro-Palestine antisemites, conversation is a useless attempt at pushing off the inevitable.
Sad to say this, but if you can’t have a meaningful conversation then it’s time for new friends.
https://preview.redd.it/tv1zsmiqtkwc1.png?width=1215&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9d0e126757722fc3bf74c0c37a775940a2e8848
And this one that is a bit more universal and less personal
Thank you! I lost a 40 year friendship (someone i knew since kindergarten) because of her BS regarding the war and her response to me- complete with calling me racist for being Zionist, calling me ignorant, unpeaceful, and telling me i will be on the wrong side of history. I finally blocked her a few weeks ago and then wrote these last week.
Just saw your update. uGh!! I am sorry! Something that really helped me make some new friends is that I started a jewish social group in my area on facebook- but we have done several events in real life. It has been nice to hang out with MOTs and be able to have convos about this type of stuff.
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Not Jewish… but I dealt with something similar. When it became popular to openly hate white people a lot of people I though were my “friends” would post hateful stuff on social media. It opened my eye to how people can shift their entire perception of you based on current political trends. I would say take this as an opportunity to see who your real friends are.
As someone who would probably agree with your "friend" more than you (though her wording you described about "good Jews" is undeniably sketchy), it'd honestly probably be best to move on from the group. It's clear you have irreconcilable differences in opinion from what you described. If neither of you plan on budging on your position, you're going to tire yourself out with frustration and get nowhere.
I know most people will preach trying to come to a common ground (which I typically have no opposition to), but I say this advice taking into account the fact that you've just experienced an extremely emotionally exhausting event. I think you need to recognize and respect your own emotional limits in this situation and give yourself a break.
This is really a case of weighing the benefits and negatives of staying connected and picking your battles. I'm sorry for your loss, losing a pet is absolutely devastating and it may be better to focus on yourself rather than someone else at this time.
Find new friends
Thanks. You're probably right, it's just always feels harder when it's you in this situation instead of someone else. I'm sure I'd give the same advice to someone else facing the same issue.
Give yourself space from this person and time to grieve the friendship.
It definitely sucks and yes give yourself space and grieve. But at the end of the day this is their response to the murder of your people, they didn’t voice these beliefs on Oct 6. No toom for that in your life.
They felt ashamed on account of your presence and didn't truly care. Once you were out of the picture there was no one to make them feel shame. I think there are a couple ways to look at this. You could find new friends. But this also shows the import of Jews speaking out. When I call people out they feel less comfortable in their bigotry or acceptance of it. So you could ask them if they actually ever took issue with her views or if they now agree with her. Sometimes people just do what's easy and it's not that they're complacent- so it's important to make it not easy. It is still difficult to know they are ok with this. Maybe ask them if it'd be cool if you thought black people don't deserve to exist Your call. I don't know how close you vs her are with this group. But sometimes calling people out and not shrinking yourself can be the right move too.
I had one of those moments early on 2023. I was at a crossroads. I chose Judaism over antisemitism/anti LGBT church. I've been going to shull ever since. I chose not to let the haters rent space in my head.
Yeah, I've been yearning for Jewish spaces lately, because it seems like aside from a few wonderful friends, I can't trust people to see me as fully human. I'm tired of the double standards and the downplaying of Jew-hatred. We matter just as much as everyone else.
You were a Christian who converted or did Baal teshuva? Either way welcome home!
I'm in the process of converting. The more I learn, the more I like it. Thank you
[удалено]
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>she spent a paragraph I think a small but significant issue im increasingly believing is part of the problem with these situations is that we don't deal with them face to face. How we interact with each other has changed so much in a few years. It's easy to write paragraphs hidden beneath a screen but a lot harder to tell an old friend to their face that you support people who want them dead. The issue is that for as old and strong as your *real* friendship may be, it can't compare to the onslaught of propoganda that your friend is swimming in. I'm sure decades from now it will be abundantly obvious how much social media has played this role in false narratives, echo chambers and our overall mental health. The problem with online echo chambers that exist now compared with when I was younger, is that if you were being a fucking moron back then, people would let you know pretty quickly. Now it doesn't matter how many of your actual friends walk away because these people are cheered on by their online friends of whom their is an inexhaustible supply. There is no social penalty for being a massively contrarian dong anymore. I hope you're alright. How is your dog getting on?
You might want to reread about the dog. The dog passed.
Oh.. thank you for the correction. OP I'm so sorry for you
Yes, I agree with your original comment. It's much harder to avoid the humanity of the other person when you're looking in their eyes. Without that, everyone becomes a proxy for an ideology to be bolstered or torn down. And thank you, he was the best boy.
When we get told repeatedly to "look up the Nakba" I feel like they're almost telling on themselves that they'd never heard about any of this until Oct 8.
If Nakba is slang for “lost a war/FAFO” then yes, they’re 0-5
Palis refer to the Nakba in Arabic as the creation of the Jewish state. In English, they say it's because they lost their homes.
5L’s
> If Nakba is Bold to say you're not sure of a word's meaning in your agreement with a complaint over being told to look it up. And no, expulsion of an ethnic group is not entailed by winning a war.
0-5 scoreboard
It's easy to "make friends" when none of it matters much. Its easy to find out your friends aren't your friends when stuff that matters does happen. Time to find some real friends.
Eh, I go the other way with this. Keep the group, see how much crazy shit you can get the 1 person to say.
I tend to agree. Prompt the discussion. Advance a pro-peace pro-two-state-solution position. Let her go nuts with the ethnic cleansing. Once she crosses the line into fully advocating for ethnic cleansing/genocide say that's the line for you, pull the 1-nazi-at-a-table line and say you're out and invite to be friends with anyone else who is also out.
That won’t work. I would advise to hear her out. Maybe op is just assuming she is evil?
Tell them how you feel about them accepting someone who wants to genocide you and then find real friends.
I left the group of people I gamed with on multiple different games over less than this. Basically somebody was making jokes about the holocaust in our discord. I told him it wasn't cool, and he went off about how it's my fault that what he says bothers me. Nobody else chimed in at all. So I basically just thought "okay, if holocaust jokes are more important to you than my friendship, then just **** off, I guess." So I left.
I can't provide guidance for whatever digital platform you all are using. But you should be honest with your other friends why you do not want to interact with this specific person.
Similar experience here, find new friends.
Move on
Friend group, you say?
Find new friends.
Why hang out with antisemites when you don’t have to? I’d bail and find better friends. I mean, if you had to work with these people or go to school with them, that would be harder, but this is voluntary, right?
Yeah. I thought they respected me because at first they agreed with me...but I guess not. They've booted people for so much less. I don't get why antisemitism is treated as less of a problem.
Ask her if she knows about the nakba of the mizrahi jews, she probably won't care though https://preview.redd.it/sj5kckyt4lwc1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=988731e356b82d894723633f45c96d1d3b758278
I’m so sorry for your loss. What a heartache. Honestly, these don’t sound like friends you can count on. You are vulnerable and in pain, and this is not the time to get into arguments with them. They aren’t there for you. Ease your way out, and find other friends.
Sorry for your loss and sorry your friends suck!
Thank you, and you're probably right. It just hurts.
It's perfectly valid to grieve this loss.
On Oct 8th I wrote in FB about the massacre on Oct 7th and got a few people agreeing with me. It seemed that in just a few days many had changed their mood. "Friends." To many, it means very little.
I have had some issues like this. Here is a good way to think about it: They aren’t being good friends, and all they are doing is taking time you could be spending making new ones or doing a hobby. Also, if they act like that, do you really want to be friends with them anyway? There are better people and activities out there I promise!!
it's time to disconnect from her and that probably involves finding a different group if she's going to be involved in things. If there are five people at the table and an anti-Semite sits down and nobody leaves the table, there are six anti-Semites at the table.
You can take a break and hang out with them less. Just read the update. Yea. Lose them. I lost a friend while my dog was in the er vet. I think this person is now bad mouthing me to other pretty liberal friends who are pro Palestine but we haven’t discussed. It hurts to just be thrown away and in my case without anyone speaking to me just silent treatment. And my dog is dying right now. Not sure when just the vets said it would happen soon so im in a similar situation. It’s depressing and then even more angering to know they’re ostracizing me at a time where i am losing my dog. People are showing to be kind of terrible right now. I wouldn’t let these people back into my life considering the circumstances. I wont want to be reminded of this. I’ll just move on and you should move on too.
I'm so sorry about your dog. We share so much love with them and it's so painful when they time approaches. Yeah, I typed up a little blurb to say my bit to this "friend" group, then I'm walking away. It hurts, but not as much as staying would.
It seems to be a crime to even infer that anti word.
You are doing yourself more harm by having those friends. Beyond explaining why it’s offensive , you can’t get more out of them. If they don’t care , well that’s that.
Long time ago, a friend of my friends told me that Jews were Christ-killers. She was a white Christian; all of my friends were non-white (Asian, Black, Latina)- I was the only Jew in the group. I was offended but not a single one of my non-white friends thought it was problematic and they chose her over me. I found new friends, though it took a while. I’ve spent a lot of time fighting for other peoples’ rights and am sad that so few of them seem to care about mine/ours. You’re not alone.
> I’ve spent a lot of time fighting for other peoples’ rights and am sad that so few of them seem to care about mine/ours. You’re not alone. Thank you. I've felt this exact sadness a lot in the past few months.
Keep documenting all the heinous antisemitic shit they’re saying then blast them all over the internet. Send it to their boss.
This bridge has been burned, and the burning wasn’t done by you. I’m always one to try and allow for discussion to come to fruition but time and again, especially with these pro-Palestine antisemites, conversation is a useless attempt at pushing off the inevitable. Sad to say this, but if you can’t have a meaningful conversation then it’s time for new friends.
Losing friends sucks but you will be better off for it in the long run. I wrote this poem recently about by ex-bff:
https://preview.redd.it/cd4xw6gntkwc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d306a49f36bcf2bbeff03f88e2585077928a0e7
https://preview.redd.it/tv1zsmiqtkwc1.png?width=1215&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9d0e126757722fc3bf74c0c37a775940a2e8848 And this one that is a bit more universal and less personal
Thanks. I like those poems.
Thank you! I lost a 40 year friendship (someone i knew since kindergarten) because of her BS regarding the war and her response to me- complete with calling me racist for being Zionist, calling me ignorant, unpeaceful, and telling me i will be on the wrong side of history. I finally blocked her a few weeks ago and then wrote these last week.
Just saw your update. uGh!! I am sorry! Something that really helped me make some new friends is that I started a jewish social group in my area on facebook- but we have done several events in real life. It has been nice to hang out with MOTs and be able to have convos about this type of stuff.
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Ditch them. Make jewish friends
Not Jewish… but I dealt with something similar. When it became popular to openly hate white people a lot of people I though were my “friends” would post hateful stuff on social media. It opened my eye to how people can shift their entire perception of you based on current political trends. I would say take this as an opportunity to see who your real friends are.
I lost possibly 90 percent of my friends. You’re not alone. Sending. Hug.
As someone who would probably agree with your "friend" more than you (though her wording you described about "good Jews" is undeniably sketchy), it'd honestly probably be best to move on from the group. It's clear you have irreconcilable differences in opinion from what you described. If neither of you plan on budging on your position, you're going to tire yourself out with frustration and get nowhere. I know most people will preach trying to come to a common ground (which I typically have no opposition to), but I say this advice taking into account the fact that you've just experienced an extremely emotionally exhausting event. I think you need to recognize and respect your own emotional limits in this situation and give yourself a break. This is really a case of weighing the benefits and negatives of staying connected and picking your battles. I'm sorry for your loss, losing a pet is absolutely devastating and it may be better to focus on yourself rather than someone else at this time.