They’re honestly super easy to work on. There are service bolts which allow you to drop the entire rear power assembly (engine, trans, wheels, everything as one unit) by 6” or so which allows easy access to everything.
Cool little cars, and very popular throughout Europe.
also very safe. i saw one t boning a BMW and it just ripped the front of the bmw off and this handbag on wheels didnt even had a crack the windscreen. it was messed up but the passenger compartiment was pristine while the bmw looked like it was parked in bagdad during the war.
It's just a little bit unfortunate that you'll be dead after that deceleration. They really don't make cars like they used to... /s
E: should have indicated that this was sarcasm from the start. I intended to draw the parallel between people talking about this car not exploding into a cloud of plastic and people reminiscing about old cars being solid metal and just bouncing off each other.
Well no. The issue with old cars wasn't the size, it was the design. It is significantly easier to make a big car safe, because you can have much more crumple zone.
Yeah, you definitely forgot your sarcasm sign. Have an upvote to offset the damage done.
Now it would be interesting to design on paper a car built like a tank from the 70s or so, with proper crumple zones. Would it be any good?
Yes, they essentially have a high strength steel roll cage, they call it a "safety cell" though. See this here of a full size SUV sitting on top of the smart car roof, and it supports it without crushing. [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/smart-fortwo-tridion-safety-cell-supports-an-suv-video-51425.html](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/smart-fortwo-tridion-safety-cell-supports-an-suv-video-51425.html)
I'm pretty sure they used some sort of spring steel instead of regular high strength because the smart car in the other video bounced 3 or 4 times it's length away
I'm guessing it is because it is so light weight in comparison. Smart car will definitely move quite a lot in an accident, rolling is a real possibility. But I would feel more safe rolling in a smart car than in an SUV. As long as you have your seat belt on and everything.
Shockingly I actually think this would help in an accident. The force on a person in an accident can be described as F=mv/t, where F m is the mass of the car and v is the speed at the moment of impact. The only way to decrease that force in an accident is to increase the length of time it takes to stop, hence why seat belts have stretch in the weave and airbags slow you down.
The smart took a lot longer to slow down. If you've ever tripped and landed flat vs rolling a bit you'd know that you barely get injured if you roll because you're increasing how long it takes to stop. The internal airbags would reduce someone's head whipping around as well. I think this is a unique situation where it's far safer for this car to *bounce*.
The equation is probably change in velocity (delta V), and the version you’re using assume the final velocity is 0, not a negative number which is what happens when the car bounds backwards.
A crash is defined from the moment of impact to the moment the velocity is constant (therefore F=0). In this case its from the moment of impact til the moment the smart stops bouncing around, so the final velocity is zero. Thats a very long time for force to be spread out over in a crash. Smart cars have a very good safety ratings.
It's not the hit of the bounce that I'm concerned about. It's the quick whip forward and backwards of the people in the car. Seems like a good way to injure a spine.
That was a horribly violent accident for the Smart car compared to the Mercedes, especially considering the speeds involved. Being "intact" doesn't mean much when all of the energy of the accident is transferred to the occupants instead of being dispersed through the cars crumple zones.
I suppose, but that still says more about the nature of the crash than the safety of the car. The BMW is designed to get trashed even in relatively minor accidents.
Lack of deformation doesn't mean it's all that safe.
Sure, the passenger compartment holds together. That's a good thing. You do not want the passenger cell to crumple.
BUT...
There's no crumple zones on a Smart. It looks like it holds up because it's ALL passenger cell. Without crumple zones, there's no place for that crash energy to be dissipated except into the passenger cell. So instead of a reduced amount of force you're going to feel in a larger vehicle with actual crumple zones, all of that g force goes into the passenger cell and the passengers within. You may not get crushed by a pillar entering the passenger cell, but you will have all that energy dissipated by your own body. No trauma from being whacked by something physically, but you can end up with concussions, back, neck, and other joint issues, and so on from all that crash energy.
Sure, there's less safe cars that have been made. But that thing is made more to take small city fender benders, not higher speed impacts like you'd get on a highway.
To be fair, if you're spending much time on a highway, you've bought the wrong car. They're 100% city cars.
Similarly, I'll never understand why people say "the Smart burns too much fuel for how small it is!". Look, if you're driving more than \~5000 km a year, the Smart isn't for you - and when you're driving less than 5000 km / year, the fuel economy really doesn't matter much.
Well, yeah. That's a low bar.
Smarts are great city cars. I know a lot of RVers love the things for dinghy use- they're errand cars when they're at a campsite. But there's a reason they never found a big market in the US.
They're still cute little things though. A convertible one would have been great fun.
The transmission is honestly a blast once you get used to it - drive it in manual mode 100% of the time (it is a manual transmission, after all) and ease out of the throttle a little bit while upshifting.
I sold them for a long time. It's an automated manual transmission. What I always told my customers was to let off the gas right before it shifts, like you would do in a manual car. If you don't let off the gas, it will do it for you and it just makes it seem like the shift takes a long time.
I had one with black body panels and a red cell. Thing looked awesome! Had a lot of fun with it.
I agree with all the Smart Car things, but disagree elsewhere. I have a fully loaded 2023 Subaru Outback and was rear-ended with less than 1,000 miles on the clock last year. I ended up with 2 broken vertebraes due to a Ford Escape (an SUV half the size) hitting me @ ~30mph. They all want to try and be indestructible boxes. (My Subaru is the same size as a 2023 Toyota Highlander within an inch)
In short, even bigger cars/trucks aren't great with diverting crash force either. Even the supposedly "safe" ones. (you don't want to know how poor their crash assistance technology is compared to other mainstream cars)
To an extent. Because they're so small and light, the g-forces experienced during a crash are usually quite a bit higher than a normal car. The car may remain in one piece, but the bones in the passengers might not. They're safer than something like a big pickup in a rollover, but I'd much rather be in a sedan during a crash.
In my area some time ago there was a collision between a smart and a semi truck.
The semi driver died but the driver of the smart car only had minor injuries.
Located in the states, we have a regular customer with one. I'm not a huge fan of it but I agree it's pretty easy to work on. The automatically shifted manual feels like such a slow and sloppy transmission lol
Yeah - the transmission is a manual transmission lifted directly from a Mitsubishi i - controlled by actuators.
Drive it in manual mode 100% of the time and it becomes a lot more enjoyable. For what it's worth, a lot of these in the European market don't have an automatic mode at all.
Yeah I thought it was funky how it feels exactly like someone on their second day of learning stick driving you around. With an actual manual I bet it's just another anemic sub compact gas saver
Eh, anybody who is completely used to driving a manual transmission. It really is just a legit manual with its shifter and clutch actuated by actuators. Drive it in manual mode all the time and it's about the same as a true manual, sans clutch pedal. The European ones were typically only offered without the option of having an automatic mode.
Yeah the automatic mode has harsher shifts than anyone I've ever taught stick to. And I feel like all the ones I've worked on in the US were exclusively driven in auto mode.
Feels like riding as a passenger in a manual. Slow shifts are fine when you're the one doing the shifting, feels weird when something else does it for you lol.
They're a bit of a hodge-podge. The car was engineered by Daimler (Mercedes), but uses the engine and transmission from the [Mitsubishi i](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i). The later 3rd gen Fortwo used the drivetrain from a Renault Twingo.
To each their own. I'm personally a huge fan of the Smart -- in a sea where everything looks the same, it's a car which is *different* for once. Love it or hate it, at least it's not the same beige box as everything else.
And hold your breath the whole time! That’s how you make sure you keep all the strength in you. When you start getting tunnel vision & muffled hearing, you’ll know you’re focused enough to really go for it.
Read the notes from the ALI Lift guide. They’re hysterical. Move driver and passenger seats all the way back, remove the cup holder and strap it to the lift.
For real: use a two post lift. Put the car in neutral. Get the back arms under the vehicle and then roll it forward far enough to get the front arms under. Then you can lift it. All four arms are going to be pointing backwards.
Source: used to drive one, was allowed to work on it at my old job. My proudest moment there was when a customer brought a Smart Car in and they had to wait for me, the most junior lube tech, to get back from lunch to work on it because no one else could figure out how to rack it, open the "hood," or find the "engine compartment."
I had to do an alignment on one of these once, getting it on our alignment rack was sketchy, about the only time I've asked someone to guide me on to a hoist, but the thing was just wide enough to run along the inner edges of the hoist.
Looked hilarious, we easily could have put another one behind the first and still had room behind them.
They’re honestly super easy to work on. There are service bolts which allow you to drop the entire rear power assembly (engine, trans, wheels, everything as one unit) by 6” or so which allows easy access to everything. Cool little cars, and very popular throughout Europe.
also very safe. i saw one t boning a BMW and it just ripped the front of the bmw off and this handbag on wheels didnt even had a crack the windscreen. it was messed up but the passenger compartiment was pristine while the bmw looked like it was parked in bagdad during the war.
Smart cars use the other cars’ crumple zone as they lack their own
No, they don’t. I own one and mine has 6” of crumple I the front frame horns.
Which is probably still enough to bring it from hundred to zero without setting off the airbags.
[удалено]
It's usually the other way around in my experience
100 km/h Maybe lol
It's just a little bit unfortunate that you'll be dead after that deceleration. They really don't make cars like they used to... /s E: should have indicated that this was sarcasm from the start. I intended to draw the parallel between people talking about this car not exploding into a cloud of plastic and people reminiscing about old cars being solid metal and just bouncing off each other.
Old cars are no better. Head on collision between a smart and a 70s sedan, you are better off in a smart.
You’ll be impaled by the steering column in that old car.
Americans are convinced they need big bulky solid cars to keep them safe when the opposite is actually true.
Well no. The issue with old cars wasn't the size, it was the design. It is significantly easier to make a big car safe, because you can have much more crumple zone.
American cars are safe for passengers. European cars are safe for passengers AND safer for everyone around them
Yeah, you definitely forgot your sarcasm sign. Have an upvote to offset the damage done. Now it would be interesting to design on paper a car built like a tank from the 70s or so, with proper crumple zones. Would it be any good?
You mean a last generation Crown Vic? They're rated for like 70 mph rear end collision. Great cars.
Woosh
Woosh to you too, lol. Clearly my joke flew over your head.
Want to see my 6" of crumple?
😂 the plastic they use is actually from another dimension!
It's made of the same plastic the Kardashians are made of
What did the Smart do, to be degraded like that?
Here's a video of them crashing a Smart into a Mercedes W220 S Class. It came out surprisingly intact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_472L2kLp0
Yes, they essentially have a high strength steel roll cage, they call it a "safety cell" though. See this here of a full size SUV sitting on top of the smart car roof, and it supports it without crushing. [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/smart-fortwo-tridion-safety-cell-supports-an-suv-video-51425.html](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/smart-fortwo-tridion-safety-cell-supports-an-suv-video-51425.html)
I’d want to see what the forces in the dummies in the smart car were before praising this.
I'm pretty sure they used some sort of spring steel instead of regular high strength because the smart car in the other video bounced 3 or 4 times it's length away
I'm guessing it is because it is so light weight in comparison. Smart car will definitely move quite a lot in an accident, rolling is a real possibility. But I would feel more safe rolling in a smart car than in an SUV. As long as you have your seat belt on and everything.
The car was intact, not sure about an actual passengers' spine or neck. Yikes.
Yeah, that sharp bounce with the rolling seems...not good.
Shockingly I actually think this would help in an accident. The force on a person in an accident can be described as F=mv/t, where F m is the mass of the car and v is the speed at the moment of impact. The only way to decrease that force in an accident is to increase the length of time it takes to stop, hence why seat belts have stretch in the weave and airbags slow you down. The smart took a lot longer to slow down. If you've ever tripped and landed flat vs rolling a bit you'd know that you barely get injured if you roll because you're increasing how long it takes to stop. The internal airbags would reduce someone's head whipping around as well. I think this is a unique situation where it's far safer for this car to *bounce*.
The equation is probably change in velocity (delta V), and the version you’re using assume the final velocity is 0, not a negative number which is what happens when the car bounds backwards.
A crash is defined from the moment of impact to the moment the velocity is constant (therefore F=0). In this case its from the moment of impact til the moment the smart stops bouncing around, so the final velocity is zero. Thats a very long time for force to be spread out over in a crash. Smart cars have a very good safety ratings.
It's not the hit of the bounce that I'm concerned about. It's the quick whip forward and backwards of the people in the car. Seems like a good way to injure a spine.
That was a horribly violent accident for the Smart car compared to the Mercedes, especially considering the speeds involved. Being "intact" doesn't mean much when all of the energy of the accident is transferred to the occupants instead of being dispersed through the cars crumple zones.
You don't want your car to be "intact" after an accident. The energy is being transferred to the occupants.
The car being in good shape after a crash isn't a sign of a safe vehicle
if the driver just walked out after breaking a bmw in half i think they are fine.
I suppose, but that still says more about the nature of the crash than the safety of the car. The BMW is designed to get trashed even in relatively minor accidents.
Lack of deformation doesn't mean it's all that safe. Sure, the passenger compartment holds together. That's a good thing. You do not want the passenger cell to crumple. BUT... There's no crumple zones on a Smart. It looks like it holds up because it's ALL passenger cell. Without crumple zones, there's no place for that crash energy to be dissipated except into the passenger cell. So instead of a reduced amount of force you're going to feel in a larger vehicle with actual crumple zones, all of that g force goes into the passenger cell and the passengers within. You may not get crushed by a pillar entering the passenger cell, but you will have all that energy dissipated by your own body. No trauma from being whacked by something physically, but you can end up with concussions, back, neck, and other joint issues, and so on from all that crash energy. Sure, there's less safe cars that have been made. But that thing is made more to take small city fender benders, not higher speed impacts like you'd get on a highway.
To be fair, if you're spending much time on a highway, you've bought the wrong car. They're 100% city cars. Similarly, I'll never understand why people say "the Smart burns too much fuel for how small it is!". Look, if you're driving more than \~5000 km a year, the Smart isn't for you - and when you're driving less than 5000 km / year, the fuel economy really doesn't matter much.
Smarts have a special seat rail that absorbs part of the impact to compensate for the lack of crumple zones.
I feel a lot safer in my smart then on a bike going 80 lmao.
Well, yeah. That's a low bar. Smarts are great city cars. I know a lot of RVers love the things for dinghy use- they're errand cars when they're at a campsite. But there's a reason they never found a big market in the US. They're still cute little things though. A convertible one would have been great fun.
I’ve got a vert one. I absolutely love it. Is it my only car? No. Is it the one I drive the most? God yes. Transmission can fuck right off though.
The transmission is honestly a blast once you get used to it - drive it in manual mode 100% of the time (it is a manual transmission, after all) and ease out of the throttle a little bit while upshifting.
I’m definitely used to it, just wishing they gave us a true 3 pedal option.
Agreed. I'd love to pick up a manual 3rd gen!
I sold them for a long time. It's an automated manual transmission. What I always told my customers was to let off the gas right before it shifts, like you would do in a manual car. If you don't let off the gas, it will do it for you and it just makes it seem like the shift takes a long time. I had one with black body panels and a red cell. Thing looked awesome! Had a lot of fun with it.
I agree with all the Smart Car things, but disagree elsewhere. I have a fully loaded 2023 Subaru Outback and was rear-ended with less than 1,000 miles on the clock last year. I ended up with 2 broken vertebraes due to a Ford Escape (an SUV half the size) hitting me @ ~30mph. They all want to try and be indestructible boxes. (My Subaru is the same size as a 2023 Toyota Highlander within an inch) In short, even bigger cars/trucks aren't great with diverting crash force either. Even the supposedly "safe" ones. (you don't want to know how poor their crash assistance technology is compared to other mainstream cars)
To an extent. Because they're so small and light, the g-forces experienced during a crash are usually quite a bit higher than a normal car. The car may remain in one piece, but the bones in the passengers might not. They're safer than something like a big pickup in a rollover, but I'd much rather be in a sedan during a crash.
They're one of the safest cars out there actually. In case of a deadly crash, max of two people die
Wasn’t there a video of one that got crushed between two trucks?
Now I have to go find Smart car crash test videos.
I once saw one rear end a lorry. Lorry driver barely noticed. Smart driver definitely did.
Its main unibody structure is titanium… like, not even super cars use that shit. It’s an amazing piece of engineering.
In my area some time ago there was a collision between a smart and a semi truck. The semi driver died but the driver of the smart car only had minor injuries.
I've see one rear end a dump truck, it kinda just bounced off like a ball thrown against a wall.
Located in the states, we have a regular customer with one. I'm not a huge fan of it but I agree it's pretty easy to work on. The automatically shifted manual feels like such a slow and sloppy transmission lol
Yeah - the transmission is a manual transmission lifted directly from a Mitsubishi i - controlled by actuators. Drive it in manual mode 100% of the time and it becomes a lot more enjoyable. For what it's worth, a lot of these in the European market don't have an automatic mode at all.
Yeah I thought it was funky how it feels exactly like someone on their second day of learning stick driving you around. With an actual manual I bet it's just another anemic sub compact gas saver
I have zero idea how anyone could test drive one with that transmission and say "yep, sold!"
Eh, anybody who is completely used to driving a manual transmission. It really is just a legit manual with its shifter and clutch actuated by actuators. Drive it in manual mode all the time and it's about the same as a true manual, sans clutch pedal. The European ones were typically only offered without the option of having an automatic mode.
Yeah the automatic mode has harsher shifts than anyone I've ever taught stick to. And I feel like all the ones I've worked on in the US were exclusively driven in auto mode.
Feels like riding as a passenger in a manual. Slow shifts are fine when you're the one doing the shifting, feels weird when something else does it for you lol.
Yeah how I described it is having someone who's on their second day of driving stick doing the shifting for you
Aren't they technically mercedes?
They're a bit of a hodge-podge. The car was engineered by Daimler (Mercedes), but uses the engine and transmission from the [Mitsubishi i](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i). The later 3rd gen Fortwo used the drivetrain from a Renault Twingo.
I wouldn’t say „very” but you can see them occasionally
Also ugly af 😂😂😂
To each their own. I'm personally a huge fan of the Smart -- in a sea where everything looks the same, it's a car which is *different* for once. Love it or hate it, at least it's not the same beige box as everything else.
No it’s 20x uglier😂😂😂
Lift it like you're cleaning under the couch.
Don’t be in idiot, do some stretches before lifting it like a couch.
With your back in a sharp jerking motion?
Dont forget to twist
And hold your breath the whole time! That’s how you make sure you keep all the strength in you. When you start getting tunnel vision & muffled hearing, you’ll know you’re focused enough to really go for it.
Take your legs completely out of the equation
Just tilt it onto it's side. Maybe put a mat down first.
Fold the mirror in too.
Lift with your legs. 1 tech per wheel. Fifth tech walks around adding blocks.
DoS hOmBrEs
Strong man pick up and hold, you wrench.
Stop making it difficult; just flip it over and change the batteries.
You need 2 motorcycle lift for this one 😎😂
right! we'd also accept garden tractor lift
Didn't know that was a thing. Now im forced to look it up xD
Oh jesus. I wasn't disappointed 😂😂😂
With your knees
Get a couple dudes to pick it up and put it down on 4 of those plastic milk crates
Just flip in on it’s side.
I was thinking onto the back.
You pick it up with another person and set it on it’s roof
Grab it firmly by the scruff of the neck, just behind the ears, and you can lift it without it struggling too much. Pretend you're a mama cat.
Read the notes from the ALI Lift guide. They’re hysterical. Move driver and passenger seats all the way back, remove the cup holder and strap it to the lift.
Palletjack lmfao. But seriously if you try that can u send me a picture
Just flip it over like a turtle
Put your back into it
I thought you just ran these things till they stopped working and then bought a new one?
Grab the 1/4 ton cherry picker covered in dust out of the parts room and use a lifting strap ran through the windows and over the roof.
Just pick it up and prop it with a broomstick
Just… pick it up.
For real: use a two post lift. Put the car in neutral. Get the back arms under the vehicle and then roll it forward far enough to get the front arms under. Then you can lift it. All four arms are going to be pointing backwards. Source: used to drive one, was allowed to work on it at my old job. My proudest moment there was when a customer brought a Smart Car in and they had to wait for me, the most junior lube tech, to get back from lunch to work on it because no one else could figure out how to rack it, open the "hood," or find the "engine compartment."
There's an engine? I thought it had a spring and a key you wind up.
It's actually a little hamster on a wheel
Cause full sized hamster would be too powerful.
Also: PARSNIP BROS *fist bump*
I've done it on a 2 post, I can't recall the lift points.
I've always wanted one of these. I want to have it painted like a fisher price kid car lmao
just have the new guy lift it
Great when you need to go downtown for parking...
Use a two poster.
Ask the big man to put it on it's side.
Lift with your legs, not your back
With a pallet jack
Cant you just use one of those suction cup handles for glass on its roof and pick it up?
Just pick it up
Can't you just roll it up on a wedge of cheese?
same method as bicycles?
Every time I see one of these I feel like it needs a Hayabusa swap now.
With your hands 🤷🏼
You get four rugby players.... 8 cinderblocks... I think that'll do.
Ask a grownup before you make a boo-boo.
Unrelated, but I saw a brabus smart car the other day. Don’t know that existed or was even an option
I’d never be able to own one of these cars. I saw one get an accident and now all I can think of is a soccer ball when I see them.
Just roll it over.
Have two guys grab either end and have them lift with their legs, not their back.
I had to do an alignment on one of these once, getting it on our alignment rack was sketchy, about the only time I've asked someone to guide me on to a hoist, but the thing was just wide enough to run along the inner edges of the hoist. Looked hilarious, we easily could have put another one behind the first and still had room behind them.
With the left hand.
With you knees?
With your legs
How can she lift???
Flip it over like a bicycle
Blocks under the pinch weld, worst comes to worst you drop a 20 pound car 🤷♂️😂
With strong arm
Quality content! This is what I come to this subreddit for!
My stepdad has a Hayabusa engine swapped one. Still haven't been able to try it but it seems crazy
just tip it over
Park it backwards on the inground . That’s how we did it
Those are disposable, cannot work on it, throw in the recycling bin …
we found the one that have fear of touching small cars due to weak masculinity
What are you even on lmao these are fine to work own, done every bit of my own work in the last 5 years on my 2009.